IN this Article the thing which you mislike is not any matter of his iudgement but that he seemeth to cōfesse either out of lesse learning then you haue or more humilitie then you shew that the coeternitie of the Sonne of God with his Father and the proceeding of the Spirit from the Father and the Sonne are in Scripture no where to be found by expresse literall mention And yet you cannot be ignorant but that vndoubtedly he beleeued both Therfore in my opinion it is strange why out of the second fift Article holdē by our church you alleage that the Sonne is the word of the Father from euerlasting begotten of the Father and the holy Ghost proceeding from the Father and the Son as though you dealt with an aduersarie that denied either You could not be ignorant hauing perused his writings with that diligence to reprehend but in this great mysterie of the Trinitie both concerning the equalitie of the Sonne with the Father and the Deitie of the holie Ghost who proceedeth from both see plainly that he held directly and soundly that doctrine which is most true and euerie way agreeable with the iudgements and expositions of the Reuerend Fathers of our Church Neither doe I know whether in this point anie of them haue left behinde them a more sound learned and vertuous Confession then he hath done For saith he The Lord our God is but one God In which indiuisible vnitie notwithstanding we adore the Father as being altogether of himselfe we glorifie that Consubstantiall Word which is the Sonne wee blesse and magnifie that coessentiall Spirit eternally proceeding from both which is the holy Ghost what confession can there be in this point of greater iudegment learning and truth and wherein there is lesse difference with that which our Church holdeth both hauing their ground as you may see by the places alleaged by M. Hooker in the Margent from the infallible euidence of Gods word This troubleth you that hee saith that these points are in scripture no where to be found by expresse literall mention which you out of your learned obseruation haue prooued as you thinke to be farre otherwise by those places of Scripture which his carelesse reading and weake iudgement was no way able to obserue Where first to proue the coeternitie of the Sonne you alleage The Lord hath possessed me in the beginning of his way I was before his works of old And againe In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God And againe Glorifie me thou Father with thine owne selfe with the glorie which I had with thee before the world was These places I confesse by way of collection may serue trulie to confirme in this Article that which our Church holdeth and yet they are not the plainest places that might be alleaged for this purpose But in all these where is there to be found expresse literall mention of the Coeternitie of the Sonne with the Father Nay for any thing that euer I could reade I do not thinke you are able to find the word Coeternall or Coequall in the whole Scripture in this sence For after the Arrians had long in this point troubled the Church the holy Fathers expresse what they held by the word Homousion which word Saint Augustine affirmeth not to be found in all the Scripture What then hath Maister Hooker said which Saint Augustine said not long since neither of them disprouing the thing but both denying the expresse literall mention of the word which I persuade my self your selues are neuer able to find Now for the proceeding of the holy Ghost you alleage as you say expresse words When the Comforter shall come whom I will send vnto you from the Father euen the Spirit of truth which proceedeth of the Father Out of this place as you thinke you haue sufficiently proued the expresse literal mention of this point we contēd not with you nor with any whether the truth of this point may directly be warranted by holy scripture but whether there be as you say expresse literal mention First then we call that expresse literal mention which is set down in plaine tearmes not inferred by way of consequence that it is so in this point we haue some reasō to doubt vntil out of your great obseruation you confirme it by more plaine and apparant Scripture For against this place which is but one which you haue alleaged we take this twofold exception as thereby accounting it insufficient to proue as you would haue it that there is expresse literall mention of the proceeding of the Spirit from the Father and the Son For first in that place alleaged out of Saint Iohn there is no mention at all of proceeding from the Sonne Secondly as Maister Beza whose authority you will not denie doth expound the place Christ speaketh not of the essence of the holy Ghost in himselfe but of the vertue and power of the holy Ghost in vs neither doth his interpretation which wee will not examine at this time any way preiudice the foundation of that truth which our Church doth hold For the Deitie of the holie Ghost proceeding from the Father and the Sonne though not by any expresse literall mention yet may easily be proued by infinite places of Scripture and other infallible demonstrations besides this In the dayes of Liberius the Pope and of Constantius the Emperour certaine fantasticall spirits held that the holy Ghost was not God but onely the ministeriall instrument of diuine working This began vnder Arrius and increased by Eunomius a leprous heretike but a subtill Logitian whom the Church hath strongly confuted with arguments impossible to be answered As first that the holy Ghost is euerie where to giue all things to know and search all things that we are commanded to baptise in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost besides the greatnesse of the sinne against the holy Ghost So Ananias that lyed as Peter said to the holy Ghost lyed not to man but to God These and many such places warranted those ancient Councels to conclude the Deitie of the holy Ghost equall to the Father and the Sonne and equally proceeding from both As first the Councell of Constantinople consisting of an hundreth and fiftie Bishops vnder Theodosius the elder and Damasus the Pope which condemned the heresie of the Macedonians The same faith was confirmed by the Councell of Ephesus the Councell of Chalcedon the Councell of Lateran vnder Innocentius the third and diuers others And Athanasius himselfe maketh it most plaine that the Father is of none either made created or begotten the Sonne is of the Father alone not made nor created but begotten the holy Ghost is from the Father and the Sonne not made nor created nor begotten but proceeding In this nothing being first or last greater or lesse but all the three persons coeternall and coequall The
one that had a misfortune it was because hee honoured not his parents For the sixt nature hath made the Murderer to expect what he hath committed For the seuenth Flie the name of an adulterer if thou wilt escape death For the eight Demosthenes against Timocrates repeateth it as Solons law plainely in the verie words And for false witnesse the Romans did punish it by their twelue tables But the incarnation of Christ the Sacraments the Trinitie the Decree of God are matters of a deeper speculation wherin humilitie must follow the direction of faith and not seek vainely with curiositie to know that which our silly weaknesse is far vnable to comprehend For as those things that are manifest are not to bee neglected so those things that are hid are not to be searched least in the one we be vnlawfully curious and in the other be found daungerously vnthankfull Now specially for the matter of the Trinitie wherein you take exception in your two first Articles doubtlesse there are few errours more dangerous or that haue stirred vp greater tragedies in the church of God All men see in nature that there is a God but the distinction of persons Trinitie in Vnitie that faith in humilitie must teach vs to beleeue For who can comprehend by reason that in that holy and sacred Trinitie one is what three are and that two is but one thing and in themselues and euerie particular infinite and all in euerie one and euerie one in all and all in all and one in all Fire hath three things motion light and heat Arrius deuide this if thou canst and then deuide the Trinitie Out of this difficultie together with the rash presumption of ignorant men haue proceeded those dangerous errours that so long and so hotly haue troubled the church thus the Manichies haue denied the vnitie of Essence the Valentinians or Gnostici from Carpocrates held that Christ was man onely from both sexes borne but that he had such a soule which knew all things that were aboue and snewed them Those that haue in their erronious doctrine oppugned the Trinitie are of two sorts they haue either denied the distinction of persons or else the samenesse of Essence thus the Arrians for we will not stand to incounter or confute all other heresies held that Christ was a person before his incarnation but that he was true and eternall God equall and of the same essence with his Father that they denied for they hold that the Sonne is not eternally begotten of the substance of his Father and so that there is an inequalitie and indeed a distinction and prioritie of essence Into this dangerous and ignorant blind heresie confuted long since with powerfull and strong reasons it seemes you are of opinion that Maister Hooker is fallen both against the truth and against the true assertions of the Reuerend Fathers of our church The ground of this so great and so vncharitable accusation is because he saith that the Father alone is originally that Deitie which Christ originally is not Where you seem to inferre against the distinction of the Trinitie that the Godhead of the Father and the Sonne cannot bee all one if the Sonne be not originally that Deitie It seemes then in your opinions that this speech vttered verie learnedly and with great wisedome and truth The Father alone is originally that Deitie which Christ originally is not is both vnusuall new and dangerous First because it weakeneth the eternitie of the Sonne in the opinion of the simple or maketh the Sonne inferiour to the Father in respect of the Godhead or else teacheth the ignorant that there may be many Gods I know your owne Christian iudgements could easily haue freed him from all suspicion of error in this point if your charity had bin equall to your vnderstanding for he himselfe hath confessed in the very same place from whence you haue taken this wherof you accuse him that by the gift of eternall generation Christ hath receiued of the father one and in number the selfe same substance which the father hath of himselfe vnreceiued from any other Who seeth not saith S. Augustine that these words Father and Son shew not the diuersities of natures but the relation of persons and therfore the Son is not of another nature and of a diuers substance because the father is God not from another God but the Son is God from God his father heere is not declared the substance but the originall that is not what he is but from whence he is or is not for in God the Father and in God the Son if we inquire the nature of them both both are God and but one God neither greater or lesse in essence of Godhead one then the other But if we speake of the originall saith Saint Austin which you see Master Hooker did the Father is God originally from whom the Son is God but there is not from whom the Father hath originally his deity so that to mislike this kinde of speech is contrary to all truth to affirme that the Son is not eternally begotten of the father that the Father is not eternally a deity begetting But heere you must take heede of the errour of Arrius who against the truth reasoned thus If the Sonne be coeternall with his Father tell vs we beseech you whether he were begotten when he was or when he was not if when he was then there was before two vnbegotten and afterwards one begot the other if when he was not then he must needes be later and after his Father But saith Saint Augustine as we haue knowne onely the Father alwayes and without beginning to be vnbegottē so we confesse the Son alwaies and without beginning to bee begotten of his Father therefore because the Father is originally that Deitie from whence the Sonne is the Sonne though hee be the same Deity yet the Father alone is originally that Deitie which the Sonne originally is not The want of Identitie being not in the Deitie whereof we must needes with the Church of God acknowledge an Vnitie but in that it is not originally the same For euery thing that is a beginning is a father vnto that which commeth of it and euery ofspring is a sonne vnto that out of which it groweth Christ then being God by being of God light by issuing out of light though he be the same deity for in the Trinitie there is but one deity yet the Father is originally that deity alone which Christ originally is not Here if you note but the difference betwixt that Deity and originally that Deity you must needs confesse that M. Hooker speaketh with the consent of reformed antiquitie and hath said nothing to diminish the eternitie of the Sonne or to make him inferiour in respect of his Father or to teach the ignorant that there be manie Gods ARTICLE II. The coeternity of the Sonne and the proceeding of the holy Ghost
the kingdome of heauen And we are all by nature the children of wrath In one word none are free from sin but he whom the blessed Virgin conceaued without the law of the flesh rebelling against the law of the minde as Saint Austin proueth most learnedly by a cloud of witnesses of the auncient Fathers against Iulian the Pelagian Nay euen they of the Church of Rome shew by their exorcising before baptisme that they thinke none to be without sin where we doe not now dispute of the lawfulnes of that vse but by that conclude that in this point they hold a truth So that the maine thing which you so seeme to mislike is a thing not holden or defended sauing in some particular case as the Virgin Marie by any that I know for euen that streame of originall sin hath ouerflowed all mankinde out of which dayly proceede those great and innumerable multitudes of actuall sins Your three false conclusions seeme to establish a threefold error contrary to the doctrine of all Churches that are accounted Christian. First that all sin is but one sin Secondly that all sins are equall Thirdly that all sins are vnited The first making no diuision of the kinds of sin the second no distinction of the qualities of sin and the third no difference in committing sin Against these we say and we hope warranted by truth that sins are of diuers kinds of diuers degrees of diuers natures and that all are not where one is Sins then may be distinguisht in respect of the obiect against whom God our neighbour ourselfe of the matter wherein in the 〈◊〉 Ignorance heresie in the body as the desires of the flesh from the manner of committing of Ignorance Infirmity Malice from the action it selfe or our dutie of omission of commission From the degrees by which they rise in the hart only in the toung in the hands or the worke it selfe From the qualities of the persons of Saints which are veniall not imputed of the wicked mortall for which they shall be condemned From the guilt not pardonable as the sin against the Holy ghost pardonable not crying or crying sins as the sheading of innocent bloud the afflicting of the fatherlesse or widow the sin of Sodome last of all the denying the laborers wages These are called crying sins because for their greatnesse they call aloude for a great punishment Others make a distinction of the seauen Capital or deadly sins which as we haue no great reason to admit so we haue as little reason to disallowe knowing that euen those are the heads and fountaines of all sins of the second table The second assertion which we hold is that all sins are not equall this was an opinion of the Stoicks who desirous to seeme vnwilling to commit the least held an opinion that they were equall to the greatest a good care grounded vpon an euill reason If a pilote say they ouerturned a ship full of gold he sinned no more then if he ouerturned a ship full of strawe for although there be a difference in the losse yet the vnskilfulnes or negligence is all one Or if two erre from the scope euen he that misseth a little as well erreth as he that misseth a great deale But as in the former of shipwrack the fault was greater because he had greater reason to make him circumspect reason telling vs that where we haue mo and stronger motiues to doe any thing there we haue lesse excuse and the sin greater if we doe it not for the latter he erreth as well but not asmuch seeing both shooting at one marke it is not al one to be a foote a rod wide And therfore that lawe that forbad but one thing thou shalt not kil forbad three things as Christ expoundeth it anger to thy brother to call him foole to offer him violence these hauing euery one as their seueral degrees so their seuerall punishment For who will say that the first is as great a fault as the second or the third as small as the first for doubtles things that are all forbidden doe in their owne nature admit more or lesse And howsoeuer in some sort vertues are called equall yet vices are not for all vertues from the vanity of the world tend but to one perfection either to reason as the Philosophers thought or to say better to the reueiled will of God which is the rule of good and euill but sinnes departing from this leadeth vnto diuers vanities in diuers kinds Neither are vertues all equall simply but by a kinde of proportion because they all proceede from the loue of God and all tend vnto his glory otherwise in it selfe faith is better then teÌ„perance one vertue may in the same man be far more excellent then in many others As faith in the Centurion obedience in Abraham patience in Iob the consideration of this inequality of sinne as it acquainteth vs with those steps that sinne maketh in vs â—o it causeth vs not to dispaire that we haue committed some but to hope and to be thankfull that we haue escaped greater Assuring our selues if we be not ourselues wanting that though wee cannot auoid all sinnes yet we may and shall auoid all great and presumptuous sinnes This heresie then wee leaue to his first Authours Iouinian and the rest and so come to the last point Because Saint Iaemes saith hee that keepeth the whole law and offendeth in one is guiltie of all some thought all sinnes to be imputed vnto him that committed anie one but Saint Iames onely telleth vs that God exacteth a keeping of them all The Schoolemen they interpet this place thus In all sin are two things a departure from God a comming to the creature which made S. Austine call sinne an vsing of that which wee ought to enioy and an enioying of that which wee ought but to vse So that in respect of the departure it is true that S. Iames saith he departeth as well from God that committeth but one sin as he that committeth many but not so farre Therefore to impose this vpon vs were to adde euen to those that are oppressed already a burthen farre greater then the law doth for by obedience of the diuine lawe wee tend from manie to one but by disobedience from one to many and those diuers and therfore though vertues haue amongst themselues their vnion and consent yet vices haue their dissent nay their opposition So that this then is the conclusion that though no man bee without all sin yet many are without many presumptuous sinnes which because through prayers and good meanes they auoid it followeth not an vtter exclusion of all sinne nor because they commit the least it followeth not that they offend equally as if they committed all ARTICLE X. Of Predestination LEast you should be like those whose humility ye are loth to imitate ye haue drawne your readers in this Article to a serious consideration of
attention gained without wit nor their affections perswaded without eloquence where to come vnfurnisht and leaue the workings without meanes to him who giueth a power and a blessing to the meanes we vse is all one to appoint him what meanes are fittest or to inioyne him to worke without meanes at all which though that Almightie power can do yet then to refuse theÌ„ when they are prouided or not to furnish vs with as much as we can of the best that he hath prouided it argueth our vnthankfulnesse and our want of choise This made when Celsus Iulian and Porphyry had written against vs the holy Fathers to confute them with all varietie of humane learning that thus the enemies of that truth which we teach may say with Iulian We are strooke through with our owne weapons This was the happines of Epiphanius whiâ—â— I wish were common to all preachers that his writings were read of the learned for the matter of the simple for the words Thus we should not doubt but to win an attention from all nay euen for the true discharging of this businesse there is a necessarie vse of Grammar to teach the originall proprietie of words of Logicke to discerne ambiguities of Rhetoricke for ornament a good tale being much better when it is well told of Philosophie for the vnfolding the true nature of causes the ignorance whereof hath brought much error in expounding the holy Scriptures of Historie for the computation of times in one word of all humane learning which like the spoiles of Egypt we haue recouered from the vniust owners accounting it no more disgrace to be accused of eloquence wit or humane learning then S. Austin did by Petilian to be termed Tertullus the Orator There be that account Inciuilitie of maners and Rusticitie of speech as Saint Hierome speaketh true holinesse But it is not fit that those that are toothlesse should enuie the teeth of others or those that are Moules repine that others see as the same Father admonisheth Calphurnius It hath beene a trouble of some of our best and most excellent preachers that they haue beene inforced after their wearisome â—oiling and vnregarded paines to giue a reason and make a defence as though they had committed a fault for the vse of that for which in true estimation they ought to haue reaped much praise And therfore saith one whom I dare oppose for eloquence and iudgement against the best in that great city of the contrarie faction I am not of opinion with those men who thinke that all secular and prophane learning should be abandoned from the lips of the preacher and that whether hee teach or exhort he is of necessitie to tie himselfe to the sentence and phrase of only Scripture Good is good wheresoever I find it vpon a withered and fruitlesse stalke saith S. Austin a grape sometimes may hang shall I refuse the grape because the stalk is fruitlesse and withered There is not any knowledg of learning to be despised seeing that all science whatsoeuer is in the nature kind of good things rather those that despise it we must repute rude vnprofitable altogether who would bee glad that all men were ignorant that their owne ignorance lying in the common heape might not be espied And S. Austin in in another place saith Eloquence is not euill but a sophisticall malignant profession proposing to it selfe not as it meaneth but either of contention or for commodity sake to speake for all things against all things What were more profitable then the eloquence of Donatus Parmenian others of your sect if it ran with as free a streame for the peace vnity truth and loue of Christ as it floweth against it for els it is a venimous eloquence as Saint Cyprian wrote of the eloquence of Nouatus I know there is much amisse both in matter and in the vse of prophane learning but this we are sure if we bring it to the Scripture if it bee faultie it is condemned if wholsome it is there confirmed And I see no reason that any man should be bold to offer his owne inuentions and conceits to the world when hee findeth such in the Fathers and others as cannot be amended I am sorie that the learned of any sort as my Author saith that hath but born a book should dispraise learning she hath enemies enough abroad though she bee iustified by her children It is fitter that wisedome bee beaten by fooles then by those who ought to be esteemed wise aboue all other places a blow giuen in the pulpit against learning a fault too common leaueth a scarre in the face of knowledge which cannot easily be cured It calleth in question the reaching of others as if they fed the people with acorns husks not bread or because they gather the truth out of humane Authours they contemned the authority of the holy Scriptures Doubtlesse it is somtime vanity in those that preach itching in those that heare a thing not tolerable or allowable in either but where it is otherwise let not a rasâ— conclusion without proofe as though it were young mens faults bee admitted against good learning If Asclepiodorus will draw with a cole or chauke alone I iudge him not if others wil paint with colours neither let them be iudged for those that are wise and humble in the Church know how with discretion to make vse of all and yet not all of the like authoritie For doctrines deriued exhortations deducted interpretations agreeable are not the verie word of God but that onely which is in the originall text or truly translated and yet we call those sermons though improperly the word of God To conclude this point as our Church hath manie excellent Preachers which we wish by good incouragement may increase so it is too presumptuous a labour for any to prescribe one forme necessarie to all But I could wish that all were like him whom you accuse or like one Marianus Genazanensis whom Angelus Politianus doth excellently describe in my opinion an excellent patterne of a reuerend Diuine ARTICLE XIII Of the Ministers office IN the actions of this life whether spirituall or temporal God and man giue their approbation in a diuers maner the one looketh onely at the thing done the other at the mind disposition of the doer And therefore the same things from diuers parties are not of the same nor of like value nay that which is from sinceritie a worship is from hypocrisie a sin and the defects which outwardly the maner of doing disproueth the sinceritie oftentimes in the mind of the doer acquiteth In the eye of man it is sometimes a fault which is no sin in the eye of God a sin which in the eye of man was no fault So that according to lawes which principally respect the heart of man works of religion being not religiously performed caÌ„not morally be perfect Baptisme as an
the happinesse of their countrey in the ashes of anothers greatnesse Thus God both in mercie and iudgement in mercie to them that die and in iudgement to those that are left behind doth before the fulnesse of yeares cut off those men whom other mens erring affections haue aduaunced too high conueying that from the presence of vnstable mindes whereunto desert and weakenesse whilest it was in our sight gaue strength that it could bewitch This oftentimes I confesse hath beene my priuate contemplation when I haue seene Parents vntimely to loose their children In whom they tooke most pride Churches those persons of greatest ornament the cōmon wealth those that were worthiest of all honor as if God had bin iealous that these would haue stolne our honor loue from him And therfore wise was the answer of that mother who in one day losing both her husband her two sonnes said I know O Lord what thou seekest my whole loue Which she thought peraduenture might haue beene lesse if those things had bin left vnto her which she found her selfe apt for to loue too much And therfore as vertuous men haue voluntarily disclosed their owne infirmities scratching as it were the face of beautie least others should too much admire them so I perswade my selfe that Maister Caluin if he now liued would much worse esteeme of your fond commendation then of those speeches which M. Hooker out of iudgement doth write of him He was doubtlesse as Bishop Iewel calleth him a reuerend Father and a worthy ornament of Gods Church and surely they do much amisse who haue sought by vniust slaunders against him a thing too vsuall to derogate from that truth whose strength was not builded vpon mans weaknesse This therefore being the practise of our aduersaries you aske M. Hooker what moued him to make choise of that worthy piller of the Church aboue all other to traduce him and to make him a spectacle before all Christians Giue me leaue to answer you for him who vndoubtedly would haue giuen a farre better answer for himselfe if he had liued There is not one word that soundeth in that whole discourse to any other end towards Maister Caluin but to shew how his great wisedome wrought vpon their weakenesse his knowledge vpon their ignorance his grauitie vpon their inconstancy his zeale vpon their disorders only to establish that gouernement which howsoeuer not necessary for other places was fit enough peraduenture for that town Neither need the present inhabitants thereof take it in euill part that the faultinesse of their people heretofore was by Maister Hooker so farre forth laid open seeing he saith no more then their owne learned guides and pastors haue thought necessarie to discouer vnto the world But what say you hath Master Caluin done against our Church that he should be singled out as an aduersarie Surely that harme though against his will which neuer will bee soundly cured so long as our Church hath any in it to spurne at the reuerend authority of Bishops For howsoeuer those Ecclesiasticall lawes established in Geneua wherein notwithstanding are some strange things might be fit enough to passe for statutes for the gouernement of a priuate Colledge or peraduture some small Vniuersity yet to make them a rule for so great so rich so learned a kingdome as this is must needes be a vaine desire of noueltie idly to attempt and a thing in nature vnpossible to performe And therefore hee cannot bee free as an occasion though no cause of all those troubles which haue disquieted our Church for these many yeares But it may bee M. Hooker spake not thus against M. Caluin of himselfe but perswaded either by our aduersaries in whose mouth he is an inuincible champion or incited vnto it by some of the Reuerend Fathers of our Church and therefore you desire him to resolue you in that point Can it possibly be that you should thinke him a man of so great simplicitie either to be moued to attempt it by the perswasion of others or hauing attempted it that he must needs disclose it are all those flatterings of the Bishops that alleaging of their authorities ended in this to accuse them as Authors of doing that which your conscience maketh you accuse to be euill done Could you perswade yourselfe that those reuerend Fathers whose authorities you alleage in the praise of Caluin would be drawne to substistute another to dispraise him whom themselues commended Is it not a thing differing from sense void of reason contrary to religion And if that be a fault that M. Hooker is commended by our aduersaries in no construction it can be concluded to bee his fault This peraduenture may commend them who are ready to approue learning iudgement and moderation euen in those who are aduersaries but no way can touch those whom they thus commend Vnlesse wee make the conclusion to light heauily vpon the best both for place wisedome and learning that our Church hath Haue not in all ages the Heathen thus commended the Christians and did not Libanius thus thinke Gregorie most worthy to succeed him if he had not been a Christian Can we in reason denie Iulian his learning because an Apostata or Bellarmine and others because they haue written against vs No we willingly giue thē that due that belongs vnto them and hold it not vnmeete to receiue euen from their mouthes without suspition of trechery that commendations which are but the recompence of a iust desert The termes of hostility are too violent and vnreasonable which denie vs thus far to communicate with our verie enemies But you say this was pride in M. Hooker to contemne all those of our owne Church as too weake to encounter with him and therefore he must raise Maister Caluin out of his sweet bed of rest to contend against him And here you vncharitably make a comparison betwixt Golias and Maister Hooker only you say vnlike in this that Golias was content to chalenge one liuing and present in the army demanded but chose not sought for one that was aliue and vaunted not ouer the dead in all which respects by your censure Maister Hooker is more presumptuous To speake the least which is fit to be answered in this place surely hee which will take vpon him to defend that there is no ouersight in this accusation must beware left by such defences he leaue not an opinion dwelling in the minds of men that he is more stiffe to maintaine what he hath spoken then carefull to speake nothing but that which iustly may be maintained that he hath not shunned to encounter those euen the best of that faction in our land your selues can witnesse that he nameth M. Caluin onely to this end to shew the authour of that Discipline which he was to handle you must needes confesse that he rather reprooued another state then discouered the violent and vncharitable proceedings to establish it at home it was his wisdome for we know