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A17914 A stay against straying. Or An answer to a treatise intituled: The lavvfulnes of hearing the ministers of the Church of England. By John Robinson. Wherein is proved the contrarie, viz: The unlawfulnes of hearing the ministers of all false Churches. By John Canne. Canne, John, d. 1667? 1639 (1639) STC 4575; ESTC S115149 141,377 156

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cultu quem ipse instituit God wil be worshipped alone and with that worship alone which he himselfe hath appointed So writes Luther c Comment in Galat. Cap. 6. pag 871. Omnis talis religio qua colitur deus sine verbo et mandato eius idolatria est et quo ea est sanctior et spiritualior in speciem hoc pernicior et p●stilentior est All such religion wherein God is worshipped without his word precept it is idolatrie and the more holy and spirituall the same is in shew the more daungerous pernitious it is Brentius * Qui●unque cultus 〈…〉 tam aut verbum 〈…〉 ta tum ab●st 〈…〉 vt major●m ab●●t 〈…〉 ●psi 〈…〉 cap. ● ●0 2 a man of rare learning among the followers of Luther sayth whatsoeuer worship is sett vp without the commaundement or word of God it is so farre from beeing acceptable to him that a greater abomination thou canst not put upon him the like saith Chrisostome Etenim quod fit iuxta dei volūtatem quamvis videatur improbum ess● tamen omnino deo gratum est et accceptum contra Quod fit praeter dei voluntatem quanquam existimatur 〈◊〉 deo tamen est omnium pessimum et iniquissimum Of a truth that which is 〈◊〉 according to the will of God although it seeme to be wicked yet it is altogether pleasant acceptable ●o him 〈…〉 Contrariwise whatsoeuer is don besides the will of God otherwise then he will haue it don though it be esteemed as a thing acceptable to him yet it is of all other the worst and most wicked Famous Iunius e Election ●n Ion cap. 3. ● 48. writes so too God will not be worshipped either for matter or manner but in his owne way And this is the iudgment of Calvin f Instit l 4. c. 10 Sect. 30. Chemnitius g Exam. par 1 pag. 82. Cha●sanio h Loc. comm pag 328 Aretius i Exam Theol. pag. 42 Piscator k In deu 12 Observ 4. Keckerman l System The●l pag. 401 Trelca●ius m Loc. comm pag. 10 D. Fu●ke n Refutat of Rastel pa. 339 D. Androwes o Catach upon the second comt B. Jewell p Repl. to Hard. Art 1. divis 29. pag. 604 and others Touching the minor or second part I may spare all proofes and send them to their own consciences For confirmation and conuiction For 1 That this hearinge is a worship the same is manifest and cleare to any that haue an eye of reason and any light of religion shining in them None to my knowledge saving a poopish Parasite q Hovvson Serm ●n Psal 118. pag. 78 or two euer held otherwise And they by men of better iudgment r Dr. La●ton in Syons Plea p. 327. haue been sharpely blamed for it Againe that this worship is don in a way and manner which the Lord neuer appointed it is as cleare as the sunne at noone day cannot with any modest face be denyed The Treatiser * Pag. 37 confesseth that it is no perticular Ordinance left by Christ marke that and in another place s Iustificat Separat p. 93 94 a false Church sayth he is a real and substantial idol Also t Re●●giour cōmunion p. 37 Every such Government ministery as is not commaunded by God and Christ is an idol forbidden in the second commaundement all subiection to it is a bowing downe to an idol To compare now all this first with the scriptures Is the Church an idol Abridgement p. ●3 the ministery an idol the Government an idol c. In the words then of the Prophet u Hos 14 ● what haue we doe any more with idols what agreement hath the Temple of God with idols ● x 2 Cor. 6 14 For we are the Temple of the living God Is it not said Little children keepe your selues from idoles Againe my dearelie Beloued flee from idolatrie But how mente et corpore saith Pareus a Comment in 1 Cor. 10 ver 14. pag. 614 in mind body that is the worship reverence of Idols And to flee idolatrie is not only to absteane from it but with all the heart to auoyd it as an abominable thinge a most hurtfull plague Againe a little after on the same place whosoever 〈◊〉 a christian it is necessarie that he be carefull to keepe himselfe from all idolatriè the occasions kinds and instruments thereof so he 2. To compare their former positions with the doctrines taugh● vs by learned men Iunius b Sacrifica●ur autem da●●nibus fi a●●a ●●co aut ●●tù modo sacrificatur quam prascrip●it dominus in his notes vpon Leuit 17 17 sayth thus men sacrifice to divels if they sacrifice either in any other place or after other rite or manner then the Lord hath prescribed B Babington c Comfortable notes upon Levit 17. pag. 130. writing on these words what mansoeuer there be of the house of Israel that killeth on oxe c. And bringeth it not to the doore of the Tabernable c. sayth Hereby was signifyed that only in the Church by fayth in the cheife high priest Christ Iesus sacrifice and seruice accepted of God is and can be offered and don and no where else And of this iudgment was d Deu. 12 p. 178 Luther Brentius e Exegis in Ioh 4. Calvin others f Levit. 17. Touching the high places * 1 Kin. 12. 31 2 King 12. 3 2 King 4. 14 Ier. 1● 5. Eze. 6. 2 and 6. 25 of which we read often in scripture The time was when it was lawfull to offer sacrifices vpon them So writes Augustine g Qua●st 36. in lib. Iudg. Drusius h Ad diffic●l loc Deu. 12. cap. 68. pag. 571. Rivetus i Comment in Hos 4. 13. pag. 148. and others And so much our Learned Ainsworth in his Annotations vpon Leuit 17. 5. obserueth out of the Hebrew Rabbins Before the Tabernacle was sett vp the high places were lawfull the seruice was by the first borne after the Tabernacle was erected the high places were vnlawfull and the seruice was performed by the priests Thalmud Bab in zebachim chapt 14. Besides the Fathers of old many hundred yeares there worshipped k Brint Amos c. 7. pag. 43. almighty God in spirit and truth Notwithstanding it was Israels great sinne so to doe l Amos 7. 9 And the reason hereof is laid downe by Zanchie m Comment in Hos 4. 13. pag. 81. Quia verba non habebant cur debere hoc facere they had no divine precept for it and wanting that idcirco fornicabantur sayth Mercer n Comment in Hos 4. 13. pag. 42. they committed therefore Fornication Here also it must be noted that in these places they worshipped not idols o Calvin pralect in Hos 4. but the true God * Deum
hence learne and settle in our hearts with what severitie the Lord challengeth and defendeth his authoritie in laying downe the way and manner of his worship not lea●ing it to any creature to meddle with but according to praescription and appointment from him Content he is that men shall make Lawes for humaine matters c. But for his divine worship he will prascribe it himselfe and what he appointeth that must be done and that only or else Nadah and Abihu their punishment exspected that is Gods wrath exspected in such manner as he shall please And this he learned of Calvin g Alium ignom sacris adhiberi vetuit Deus ut adventities omnes ritus excluderet ac doceret se detestari quic quid aliūde profectum erat discamus ergo sic attendere ad Dei mandatum ne eius cultum ullis extraneis Commentin vitiemus who upon the Place saith God forbad other Fyre c. to be used that he might exclude all inventious rites and teach that he detested whatsoever was come from else-where Let us therefore learne so to attend to the Commaundement of God that we defile not his worship with any far fetched devises Iunius h Peccatum in eo fuisse q●od in ratione divini cultus non attenderint ad mandatum Dei c. Anal in loc mentioning their sinne sayth It was in that they kept not Gods Commaundement in the matter of his worship And a little after They should not have added of their owne any thing thereto Piscator i Cultum Dei exten●●um praecise ex Dei praescriptum exercendum esse itaque non habet hic locum bena hominum intentio from the place rayseth this observation The outward worship of God must be strictly done according to his Commaundement A good intention therefore hath here no place Mr. Attorsall also in his Commentarie upon Numb 3. 4. doth largely declare out of this Example how God disliketh and disclameth mens devises in his service as trash trumpery and meere dotage So Beda Bruno Brentius Pelargus Chytraeus Sarcerius S●rigelius Aretius Borrhaeus and other interpret the place And whereas he applyeth it to false Doctrine taught by one that hath his outward calling true He may say in the words of that boasting City k I am and there is none besides me For this is his owne devise and it must live and die with them The place beeing thus understood Let us now see if the same may not be ab uno de grammate fithe applyed against this practice of Hearing From the place then I doe thus reason All will worship and superstition is sinne To heare Antichristian Ministers in their unlawfull assemblies is superstition and will-worship Therefore it is sinne to doe it The first Proposition is grounded upon the fore-mentioned example Levit. 10. 1. 2. and the same is without exception The second Proposition is thus proved 1. Lib. 1. vit ex cult oppose Col. 501. 502. From the nature of superstition which is as Zanchy describes it a taking into the worship of God more then he requires in his worship Hence superstition as some derive the word is that which is done supra statutum And in this respect the hearing in question is superstition as beeing used in Gods worship upon no other ground but mans devise 2. According to the Schoolemen m Vel cui non debet vel non e● modo quo debet that is Superstition when divine worship is not exhibited either to the person it should be or not in the way and manner as it ought And this is held to be a sound truth by all Orthodoxal Writers Now Aquin. 2. 20. q. 92. Art 1. howsoever the Hearers of False Ministers doe exhibit worship to God yet it is not in the manner and way that they should worship him And this is cleare by the Treatisers owne confession For he confesseth that the hearing which he pleads for n Pag. 37 is no particular ordinance left by Christ. Againe he saith It were to be wished that no Church Ministerie were to be found which is not approveable by the Word of God notwithstanding any good act performed by them that posses it If I am not deceived in these words he destroyes what he built before Is this hearing no ordinance left us by Christ Is the controverted Ministerie so evil a thing as that every good Christian is to pray for its rooting up How then can it be both lawfull and in cases necessary for all Sects and sorts of people to pertake with it If this be not ex diametro crosse worke and grosse contradiction I know not what is 3. This hearing cannot be free of superstition in regard men are present at false worship The which presence as the Learned write o Praesentia est communicatio quaedam in cultu Slater Epist 1. ad Corinth c. 10. is a certaine communion therewith 4. It is great superstition to approve countenance or give honour to any of the wayes of Antichrist They that are sincere Christians saith p in Censura cap. 9. fol. 471. Bucer cannot abide any thing that is his The least shew saith Vigandus q Syneps Antichrist to please either him or his followers is will worship Of this judgement were Iunius r Jn Hos 2. 16. Musculus s Loc. com de ●radit p. 421. 422. Beza t Tract theol vol. 3. pa. 210. Mollerus u In Ps 16 Zepperus x de Polit. p. 72. Sadeel y Contr. Monachos p. 70. and others Now me thinkes there should not be a man so voyd of reason as to say that a Minister of Antichrist as he is preaching by vertue of his Masters commission and under his seale and authority may even then be heard and yet no honour no approbation no countenance nor any shew thereof be given unto Antichrist therein 5. It is vitious and superstitious to simbolize with idolaters The Scriptures * Levit. 18 3. Deu. 12. 30. Exo. 23. 24. 2 Chro. 13 9. Levit. 19. 27. 28 forbidd it And the Saints in all ages have carefully shund it as we shall shew in another place But this Hearing is no other For idolaters in this are imitated in sundry acts of their idolatrie In so much as Papists and Atheists too may well twitt our balters in the words of the Samaritane woman how is it that thou beeing a Christian joynest thy selfe to us Antichristians Is it not strange that thou who professest our Church to be false our Ministerie unlawfull our Church-government Popish shouldest yet come to us and pertake in our administrations Surely this argueth that either thou understandest not the practice which thy grounds lead thee too or else for some by respect refusest to walke accordingly to them 6. Superstition is committed when more estimation is had of a thing more dignitie and excellency placed in it and more regard had to it then God alloweth
c. I see nothing in it wherefore he should desire the reader to take knowledge of it For as for riches credit of the World and outward peace here instanced as they are good things in themselves so they may be desired and in a right way and course Lawfully sought after For the other namelie Hearing of the Word obedience to the Magistrate c. In these things too we must keepe our selves within the limits and bounds which God hath set us For his phrase of streaning and gooing as neere the Winde as may be J hope he meant no streaning of a good conscience If he did not then his counsell is of no use at all except it could be proued that the Lord requires his people to heare in the way and manner hee pleads for a worke ab Asino lanam not possibly to be done As there are some scrupulous in things amisse touching outward Ordinances and yet faultie otherwayes So I beleeve there are many not scrupulous in things amisse touching outward ordinances and yet in their course of life base and scandalous enought But what of this must not Gods House and Ordinances be deare to our soules because some mens conversation is not according to their profession God forbid For in the holiest Society upon Earth it is possible that there should be wicked persons When there was but 4 in the World one was a Kaan when 8. onely in the Arke one was a Cham Among the 12. one a Iudas The purest Wheate hath some chaffe with it The fairest garden some weeds in it Therefore let no man forbeare to practice any knowne truth for other mens lewd lives onely let them be carefull to doe well themselves Mourne for such as doe otherwise and seeke by all due and lawfull meanes their Amendment And this is the burden and no other which the Lord layes upon them The last sort he divides into 5 rankes at which he either girds or right-out chargeth with Hypocrisie partialitie pride ignorance mallace and the like It is said of Tamberlane * Richard Knowles in the life of Baiazee that he raised warre against Baiazet the fourth King of the Turkes because he refused to receive certaine strange Garments which he sent unto him I beleeve had these men embraced the Treatisers opinion in this point of Hearing they should not have heard him speake so bitterly against them But to the particulars Some are carried with so excessive admiration of some former guides in their course Treat as they thinke is halfe Heresy to call into question any of their determinations or practises Answ Howsoever we must live by our owne faith notwithstanding we are not lightly to esteeme of the determinations and practises of our guides specially when we know they are no reeds but men stable and unchangeable in the truth He is a foolish traviler that will leave the way which he hath long kept unlesse he be sure he is out There is as Polanus h Cōment in Ezech. cap. 20. pag. 487. saith a laudable imitation of Elders That is so farre to follow them as they are followers of Christ 2. J know none more faulty this way then such as have learned of him to heare unlawfull Ministers For were not these men superstitiously addicted to his new devise they would beware how to reject as they doe the unanimous judgement and practice of all Learned Men and true Churches and follow the blinde trodd of his single opinion Such as lay downe rules to finde out the truth by write thus What the Fathers i Quid-quid omnes pariter uno codemque consensu c. Vincent Lirenens cont prophanos haeret c. 4. all with one consent have held and written is a necessary token to know the truth by Againe k D. Feild of the church l. 3. c. 43 p. 175 Whatsoever hath beene holden at all times and in all places by all Christians that hath not beene noted for novelty singularity and division is to be received as the undoubted truth of God If these Assertions be true the Treatisers then is untrue For not onely are all old Writers against it but the most Learned of later times Yea and let it be minded all Sects and sorts of people professing Christianitie abhorre it J except onely Familists For they and he ●●dem in lud● docti are for the pleading and practice here much alike Some againe are much addicted to themselves as the former to others Treat Conceiving in effect though they will not professe it the same of their Heads which the Papists doe of their Head the Pope that they cannot erre or be deceived And this specially in such matters us for which they have suffered trouble and affliction formerly Answ 1. Wee are all more ready to blame faults in others then to see our owne and amend them Had not the Treatiser thought to well of himselfe I doubt whether he would so lightly have singled himselfe out and become as it were every mans opposite Humble minds are affraid to meddle with novelties but such as seeke humane praise imagine they cannot enought be observed unlesse out of the dreggs of Sophistry they raise some strange quiddities whereby to crosse truths generally received 2. That any man should love and like a thing because it leads to persecution That J cannot thinke But this J thinke There are some which doe professe practice many things and namelie this of Hearing on no better ground or reason but hereby to keep themselves out of troubles There is also a third sort who bend their force rather to the weakning of other men in their courses Treat then to the building up of themselves in their owne halfe imagining that they draw neere enought to God if they can withdraw enought from other men Answ I cannot devise for what end the Treat * Aliquid latet quod non patet should seeke thus to discover other mens nakednes except it be he thought that the more vile and contemptible he made his Opposites appeare in the Readers eye the easier he would be won to embrace this his opinion of Hearing Antichristian Ministers a prittie trick Much like that Lesson of the Cannon Lavv Si non caste tamen cause But such shifts profit not for a godly minde will search and looke into the cause it selfe and not on the persons either for or against it To oppose a bad course is meet and lawfull and should we be silent when we are called to testifie against it we should make our selves hereby open transgressours Touching the building up of our selves This as Iude † Ver. 20. teacheth must be in our most holy faith He that rayseth up a House with rotten stuffe * What is there else in Babilon will loose his cost and labour by it I know not what withdrawing he meanes from other men if he intend a withdravving from the Hearing of false Ministers then I answer they doe
to use the Pistlers words it is wel to be marked by the Reader how the Church when these thinges were written enioyed as a Pastor so a iudicious Ruling Elder too and their company greater by farre then it was when that letter was framed Such as write of the Government of Common-wealths doe hold it for a rule that to redresse abuses in any State a better Way cannot be taken then to haue thinges brought to their first institution Hence it is that the Venetians haue a supreame Magistracie which they call A Syndicate that once in a few yeares ● survey● all the Offices and dignities in their wealth that so all things may continue and stand entyre according to the rules and precepts of their first Constitutions and Ordinances If the Pistler had desired the common good of that Church he would haue sought to haue had thinges reduced to their primitiue Originall and good beginning and not Mention as he doth their depriuations declinations departures * ser●en● qualitas vi●i dignoscitur as a rule for all Posterity to measure their faith and actions by It is an infallible maxime as D Vsher g De Christianor Eccl. success et stat●● cap. 1. pag. 19. and other obserue out of Tertullian h Id verum quodcunque primum id adultorum quod cunque posterius whatsoeuer is first that is truest and what comes after is adulterate The first in any kind or sort of thinges is truest and best so Feild 3. But admitt there were many that held this hearing lawfull and soo haue don along time what of this is the thing he better for that in no wi●e For not custome or multitudes must be followed but the truth of Gods word Walke ye not in the statutes of your fathers I. Of the Church l. 2. c. 5. p. 49. neither Obserue their iudgments nor defi●e your selues with their idols k Ezech. 20. The like precept we haue in 3 ●ch 11. Follow not that which is euil but that which is good Cyprian and others of the Fathers as they are called speake wel to this purpose we must l Non debemus attende●e quid alius ante nos f●cerit aut faciendum putauerit sed quid ante omnes est Christus prior fecerit Cyp● Epist 63. not regard what others did be fore vs or thought fitt to be don but what Christ did who was before all We Must m non est de consuetudene praescribendum sed ratione vin cendum Epist 74. not prescribe vpon custome but perswade by reason Whatsoeuer n Tertullian lib de vi●g sauoreth against the truth it is heresie be the practice thereof neuer so ancient Non illa tantum in religione fugienda quae Verbo dei adversantur sed ea etiam quae verbo dei non sunt praescripta etiamsi ab acutissimis hominibus excogitata a doctissimis defensa et diuturna consu etudine recepta Not only in religion must we auoyd all thinges contrary to the word of God but also whatsoeuer is not therein prescribed o Polanus Comment in Ezec 20 pag 481. yea howbeit the same should be deuised by the acutest men defended by the most learned and receiued by long custome Then we serue God p. Fox Act. and mon p. 18 29. when in his worship we follow his word and not mans fantasies custome multitude c so Bradford the martyr Thus we haue according to his intreatie taken a vew of his two thinges the which are so vaine and frivelous as indeed deserued no answere yet least any of that faction should thinke we passed them over without any examintion because we feared the weight and force thereof I haue breiflie replyed and desire the humble and godly Reader to con●ider what both haue written SECTION 3. ●The Epistoler hauing ended his two obseruations prepareth now himselfe in the next place in earnest for disputation * Dulce bell●●● in expertis And first of all after some spitefull words cast on his opposites like Thraso in Terence who thought himselfe a none-such o. Metuebant omnes iam me in Eunuch and thereupon boastingly prayseth himselfe They are all affraid of me Act 3. sc 1. as if he had don some great pe●ce● of seruice he daringlie prouokes who * Et calum territat armis Virg. in Aeneid will to reply if their stomacks serue And because he will speake omissis nugis to the purpose indeed He vndertakes to handle the point in controversie methodicallie that is to propound first his opposites obiections And afterwards to giue some answere to them First sayth he they obiect say that we hould the Church of England to be a false Church and the ministers thereof to be Antichristian and yet we goe thither to worship and this say they is absurd His answere hereto is Before wee answere directlie to this obiection we shall intreat the Reader and themselues to consider of what followes Answ we read of one Doria the Admiral of Genua that fighting at sea against the Sarasens he fetched his course so farre about to gaine the wind that he could neuer come to strike a blow before the battle was ended The Epist is here fallen into such a wild and wandring course for seeking to get some advantage by windy wordes he goes quite away from the thing which he propounded and comes not againe to speake either much or little of it But no maruaile our new maister * It seemes the Pist is one of Antontes scholers mentioned in Tullie vvho vvisheth men if they be trobled about a hard question to say nothing to it hath shewed vs such a trick Cic de orat l. 2 the truth is as one a D. Couel Church Gouerment c 1 p 5 speakes in the like case he made the obiection stronger then he was able to answere Better therfore to be silent then light a candle to discouer his owne nakednes But it may be he or others of that side wil be the more willing to reply if they shall se this argument laid downe in some better forme If that will doe it we will doe our best to make way for them Thus then we reason To worship God in any other way or manner then he hath in his word prescribed is vnlawfull But to heare Antichristian Ministers in false Churches is to worship God in a way and manner which he hath not prescribed Therefore it is a sinne to doe it The maior no man dares deny I assure my selfe For it is manifest and certane by the whole course of the scriptures Deu 12. 8. Leuit. 10. 20. psa 119 133 Mic. 7. 18 Hos 9. 15 Ihon 4. 23. mat 15. 3. 4. Colos 2 8. 2 Ioh. 16. 17. Moreouer all sorts and sects of writers acknowledge this For a truth Zanchy b Explicat in Coloss 2● 23. pag. ●19 To●● 4 saith Deus et solus vult coli et eo solo