saieth This is my bodie and not contented there with least some man might otherwise construe his wordes because he had at other times spoken by figures addeth the selfe same which shalbe betraied for yowe then which wordes if all the worlde would lay their heades together to deuise howe he might haue spoken more plainelie theie shall neuer finde the waie they bring vs a glose cleane contrarie to the texte that it signifieth his bodie that it is a figure thereof But what seing as S. Ambrose saieth oure lorde Iesus witnesseth vnto vs that we truly receaue his body and bloud shall we dout of his credite and witnes Naie we haue other councell and better by Cirillus who biddeth vs not to doute whether this be true or no but to embrace in faith the wordes of our Sauior who for as much as he is the truthe it selfe we maie well be suer can not lie Thus maie yowe see good Readers what it is to deale with heretikes whose propertie is alwaies to crie for scripture and in whose mouthe there is nothing so coÌ„mon as verbum domini verbum domini the worde of the lorde the worde of the lorde and yet when all is done and their request satisfied that is scripture brought to them theie ar not asshamed such is their impudencie either to saie that it is at all no scripture or that it maketh nothing ageinst them or to call that euident for them that in the iudgement of as manie as either ar wise or learned is moste euident ageinst them And of this disease if yowe had not M. Iuell bene daungerouslie sicke yowe would neuer haue put me or anie man elles to the paine to labour anie farder in the boulting oute of that truthe wherein Christe hath so plainelie opened him selfe as neither hath he nede by anie other to be expounded nor easelie can anie such I trowe be founde as shalbe hable more plainelie to expresse the same then hath Christe him selfe our maister allreadie doen. Notwithstanding because bothe yowe and your compaignions like cauilling Capernaites stande apon Christes meaning which as yowe saie was not all one with his wordes and also on this that we haue no olde writers to mainteine as it pleaseth yowe to terme it oure newe doctrine of Christes reall presence in the sacrament I shall assaie to make yow vnderstande at the least those good people whome yow haue so far abused that we haue agreate sorte more that saie with vs that Christes blessed bodie after the wordes of consecration duelie by the priest pronounced is reallie substantiallie and corporallie the same that was borne of the virgin Marie the same that he walcked in here in earthe the same that as him selfe witnesseth was deliuered for vs to be crucified on the crosse present in the sacrament then euer yow or the best that taketh your parte shall in susteining the contrarie be hable of them all to giue a right answer to anie one And here I shall first alleage that auncient writer Tertullian in whome writing aboue thirtene hundred yeares sence I finde to this purpose these wordes Caro corpore sanguine Christi vescitur vt anima de Deo saginetur non possunt ergo separ ari in mercede quas opera coniungit that is to saie Our fleshe feedeth on the bodie and bloude of Christe that the soule also maie be made fat by feading on god theie can not therefore be separated in rewarde which haue bene ioined and coupled together in worcking Note here I beseche yow good readers ageinst our aduersaries that would shift of this place with their olde accustomed answer that the breade is called his bodie for that it signifieth and representeth no lesse vnto vs those wordes of Tertullian where he saieth that the bodie and the soule can not be seuered in receauing their rewarde whome one office oâ— ministerie ioineth together If the bodie fede apon bare breade as our aduersaries affirme and not apon Christes blessed bodie and blood as Tertullian saieth howe then caÌ„ theie be saide to concurre in one ministerie where as either of them fedeth diuerâ—lie on diuerse thinges Or will yowe saie M. Iuell that flesh can fede apon signes or figures Trulie whether it can or no I durst referre the resolution hereof to your selfe if being shut vp without meate or drincke two or thre daies in some close roume it might be my chauÌ„ce to come to your speâ—he at the last I thincke yow would beâ—hrowe him that would râ—ake yow such an aâ—gument Yowe haue thought earnestlie apon meate all this while therefore yowe haue eaten your fill And would con him but little more thancke that would painte on the walles of your chambre the signe of a fat capon and bid yow eate and spare not But was Tertullian thincke we of this minde alone No trulie For besides him we haue to confirme the faithe of the churche in this pointe all the auncient writers as manie as by occasion make anie mention of this moste blessed Sacrament Emongest whome I â—hall next alleage S. CipriaÌ„ that holie and blessed martir Who in his worcke De duplici martyrio touching this matter hath these wordes Reliquit nobis edendam carnem suam Reliquit biâ—â—nduÌ„ sanguinem vt per eadem alâ—remur per quae sumus redempti Christ hath left vs his fleshe to eate â–ª and his bloude to drincke to the entent we might be noorished by the same thinges by the which we wer redemed Trulie if we be noorished by the same thinges by the which we haue bene redemed then ar we not noorished we maie be bolde to saie with a signe or figure of his bodie which onelie and nothing elles these newe founde vpstartes would make vs beleue to be in this Sacrament The same holie martyr in an other place hath to the same purpose these wordes The breade which our lorde deliuered to his disciples being changed not in forme or shape but in nature by the omnipotencie of the worde is made fleshe This place of S. Cyprian serueth me to double vse For bothe it manifestle proueth the reall presence and which yowe also denie and call a newe inuention vâ—knowen to thauncient fathers and first harde of in the councell holden at Laâ—er 〈◊〉 vnder Innocentius the thirde the transubstantiation of the breade into Christes naturall fleshe Your coÌ„mon answer that the base creatures of breade and wine be after the consecration changed and transmuted from common breade to be a Sacrament to be a signe a remembraâ—nce a signification of Christes bodie and bloude yea to be in the steade of his bodie it selfe whereas before the consecration it was no such thing can serue yowe no longer For all this induceth no change in the nature or substance of the breade no more then if a cartar to daye should be turned into a kinge to morowe or placed in his seate of maiestie to represent his parson he coulde be saide to be
infirmities sake to auoide that horror and feare which if we should receaue theÌ„ in their owne likenes and not vnder the for me of thiÌ„ges wherewith we ar better acquainted we wer of all likelihood suer to fall into I caÌ„ not here passe ouer in sileÌ„ce that notable and euident testimony of this worthy bishop and learned father vttred to this purpose by him in an other place in thiese wordes Antequâm coÌ„secretur panis est vbi auteÌ„ verba Christi accesserint corpus est Christi Ante verba Christi calix est vini et aquae plaenus vbi verba Christi operata fuerint ibi sanguis efficitur qui plaebeÌ„ redemit that is to say before that it be coÌ„secrate it is breade but wheÌ„ the wordes of christ ar come vnto it it is christes body Before the wordes of Christ there is a cup filled with wine and water as sone as Christes wordes haue wrought their effect there is made that bloud which redemed the people If these auctorities alleaged out of S. Ambrose be not able to stop the mouthes of our aduersaries if they will yeat nedes presse vs with their faithelesse howes and whies and will deale with almightie god so streightly that they will graunt him to be hable to doe no more theÌ„ their simple wittes caÌ„ atteine to the maÌ„ner of the doing whereof I shall yeat moste humblie desier them to beare with me if I alleage once againe the same excellent and learned bishop S. Ambrose I meane most plainely refelling all such faitheles Caparnaites as leaning more to fraile reason then firme faithe haue their doubtefull mindes euer waltering and tottering in the truthe of this sacrameÌ„t His wordes ar these Nunquid naturae vsus praecessit quum Iesus dominus ex Maria nasceretur Si ordinem quaerimus viro mixta foemina generare consueuerat Liquet igitur quôd praeter naturae ordineÌ„ virgo gener auit hoc quod coÌ„ficimus corpus ex virgine est Quid hic quaeris naturae ordinem in Christi corpore cum praeter naturam sit ipse D. Iesus partus ex virigine That is when our lorde Iesus was borne of the virgin Marie was naturâ—s vsage practised If we seke after her ordre women haue first the companie of men and then so conceiue and bring furth after It is manifest therefore that the virgin brought furth besides the course of nature and this bodie which we doe consecrate is the same that was borne of the virgin Whie demaundest thow here in the sacrament the order of nature to be kepte in Christes bodie where as besides nature oure lorde Iesus him selfe was borne of the virgin Hetherto haue yowe harde of what minde holye S. Ambrose was touching the controuersie moued in these our infortunate daies about the moste blessed sacrament of Christes bodie and bloud In whome I haue taried somewhat the longer for that that bothe he proueth moste manifestlie the presence when he affirmeth that Chrstes fleshe in the sacrament is so verilie his true fleshe as Christe was the true sonne of his father and excludeth all figures all signes all representation when Christ was in none of these senses his fathers sonne and also the chaÌ„ge and alteration of the breade and wine in to the true substaÌ„ce of Christes fleshe and bloud by alleaging th'examples which had otherwise bene in vaine of Moses rodde turned in to a serpeÌ„t the yron flotting aboue the water the bitternes of the waters of Marath turned into swetenes and such like with answer to such carnall obiections as ar wont to be commonlie made ageinst this truthe and last of all for that of all other he giueth moste plainelie vnto vs the cause whie in this greate miracle our lorde god chaungeth not the accideÌ„ts but onelie the substance By all which thinges he giueth vs moste manifestly to vnderstaÌ„d that he ment no lesse theÌ„ he spake For otherwise if Christes bodie had not bene trulie there but a signe thereof not in veritie but in imagination all his proufes to proue the same had bene nedeles whereas he might and for his greate wisdome and learning no doubte would to all such as either had doubted of the presence or traÌ„substantiatioÌ„ with much more facilitie haue answered with our aduersaries that there was no chaÌ„ge at all in nature or substance nor no presence there of Christes true bodie then to haue heaped together a nombre of examples whereof euerie one conteined a true chaunge in nature to haue proued that which was not or to haue alleaged the miraculouse conception of Christe or to giue anie cause why his bodie appeareth not like a bodie wherebie to bring the simple people in to a perniciouse and damnable errour But forasmuch as his greate trauailes taken in the defence of Christes church ageinst the wicked Arrians doe well witnes to his posteritie how far he was from all such impietie we must nedes conclude that S. Ambrose did not onelie so write but also beleue that in the blessed sacrament after the wordes of consecration is the verie true and naturall bodie of our lorde Iesus Christe the substance of breade and wine passing into the substance of his fleshe and his bloud From S. Ambrose let vs goe one steppe farder to S. Austen He in a certeine place examining these wordes of the Prophete A dor ate scabellum pedum eius worshippe ye his fotestole psalm 98. hath these wordes Suscepit enim de terra terram quia caro de terra est de carne Mariae carnem accepit Et quia in ipsâ— carne hiâ— ambulauit ipsam carnem ad manducandum ad salutem dedit nemo autem illam carneÌ„ manducat nisi prius adorauerit inuentuÌ„ est queÌ„admoduÌ„ ado retur tale scabelluÌ„ non solum non peccemus adoraÌ„do sed peccemus noÌ„ adoraÌ„do That is to saie for he toke earthe of earthe because fleshe coÌ„meth of earthe and of Maries fleshe he toke fleshe And forasmuch as he walcked here in that fleshe and hath giuen to vs the same fleshe to be eaten to our saluation and no man eateth it but he first worshippeth it the meanes is founde how such a fotestole of our lordes maie be worshipped and we not onelie not sinne in worshipping it but sinne in not worshipping it Heare yow M. Iuell S. Austen telling yow that Christes fleshe is here giuen to vs to be eaten the same that he toke of the virgin Marie the same that he caried about with him in this worlde Heare yow not your selfe vanquished which take from it all manner of worship in the sacrament and violentlie wrest these wordes of S. Austen to Christes bodie in heauen which interpretation how far it goeth from the minde of the author to omit all other proufes your owne selfe haue well declared when you graunte that there he must be worshipped where he is eaten which seing it is here in earthe what moued
omitted so much as one worde ▪ let vs nowe I beseche yow as yow tendre the common quiet of the churche as yow regarde the health of youre owne soule doe the like Youre owne selues confesse within the terme of yeares by me mencioned of the beginning and continuance of youre religion youre Apologie alleaging 40. yeares for all the vniuersall worlde M. Haddō to Hieronimus Osorius standing more stoutely then wisely apon the quiet possessiō of thirty yeares six excepted in which the course thereof was interrupted within oure realme of England So that yow can not say that I haue here imagined a case impossible but by youre owne selues confessed and by manie a man aliue if yow would denie it easy to be proued To conclude if all that hath byn allready saied satisfie yow not let yet Tertullian persuade yow in this poinct whose wordes touching this matter written ageinst the heretikes of his time folow in english after this sorte Well let it be graunted that all haue erred Hath the holie ghost yet all this while regarded no churche to leade it into the truthe being sent for that purpose by Christ being therefore expressely demaunded of his father to be the teacher of all truthe Let it be so that goddes bailif and Christes vicair haue suffered the churches to vnderstand otherwise then he taught by his apostles Is it yeat likely that so many and famouse churches should erre in one faithe And a littell after he addeth thiese wordes The truthe belike looked for some Marcionites and Valentiniās the heretikes against whome he wrote to deliuer it in the meane season till whose comming the ghospel was not rightely preached so many thousand thousands baptized amisse so many worckes of faithe euell ministred so many vertuouse cures and giftes wrongfully wrought so many priesthodes and ministrations naughtely executed so manie martirdome to make an ende suffred in vaine Thus far Tertullian To whome it seemed a thing absurd and vnlikely that the holie ghost should faile the churche in the reuealing and opening to the same of any wholesom and necessary truthe that gods bailiff and Christes vicair should suffer so many churches to fall in to an erroniouse and wrong belief that so many agreing all in one faithe should erre that no chaunce should at one time or an other haue varied the ordre had it byn nought of that doctrine which so many churches taught This wrote he when Christes churche was yet in herba when it had continued little aboue two hundred yeares What would he haue saied were he now aliue in oure time to heare that all the churches in the wide worlde the same where the apostles them selues gouerned from whence as from a spring all scripture all true religion next after god flowed in to the reast of Christendome should be noted agreing all in one faithe to haue perniciously erred not one hundred yeares or two but by the continuall space of fiftene hundred Or if that cōfession fell from yow in youre Apologie vnwares as in a booke set furth with such publike consent first commendid to the world next as the common and certeine pledge of youre religiō and last of all vaunted to be placed openly in the eyes of all the world and such as no one of youre aduersaries wer able to refell it is not easi to be presumed yeat for the terme of nine hundred yeares at the least For for so long continuance the moste parte of yow graunt that we ar able to bring proufes and witnesses of oure religion and therefore yow chalenge all the writers that haue written within that compasse Would he not now haue cried out and haue asked where was become the holie ghost apppointed by Christ demaunded of the father to leade the churche in to all truthe Whether it were likely that so many and notable churches agreing all in one faithe should erre would he not thincke we take vp oure newe doctours yow and youre cōpanions telling yow that the truthe laie euer bounde and could neuer be losed till frier Luther and his brother Zuinglius cam and set it at libertie and that in the meane season the ghospel was neuer preached aright baptesme euel ministred with such like functions in the churche But leauing Tertullian and comming nearer to oure owne time will not thinck yow Hieronimus Osorius laughe in his sleeue whē of thirteene hundred yeares for so long is it and more sence we Englishe men first receiued the faithe at the handes of pope Eleutherius M. Haddon his aduersary after so much turning and tossing troubling and vexing of Cicero his maister and chiefest author of his diuinitie could at the length with much ado finde but .24 yeares that our countrie had continued in the doctrine of the gospell Is he not like thinke yow to serue him again with this tennis ball Hoc est tuū Gualtere nescio stupidius an improbius ad Hieronimi epist. respōsum And will not some other trowe you cut him shorte of this accounte eleuen yeares and bid him for .30 lacking six to write .30 lacking .17 Except he will flie to this to iustifie his reaconing that as soone as the pope was once banished although Masse Mattins and all other seruice cōtinued till the deathe of king Henry that yeat was all as it shoulde be and according to the doctrine of their gospell How euer it be fower and twenty or .13 yeares hath not the Quene our gratiouse lady trow yow and the whole realme good cause to decree and appoint a perpetuall salary out of the common coffers to such a patrone But because Osorius is well knowen to be man good ynough for M. Haddon and therefore bothe cā and will if he thincke it needefull to reply apon so fond an answere defend him selfe I will leauing to write any more thereof as perteining not principally but incidently to my purpose conclude here this first cause with my earnest request to yow once again that yow considre it diligently and seriously not lightely or scornefully THE second cause that hath weighed much with me and maie also iustly doe the like with yowe is the same that S. Austen disputing with the Maniches affirmed to haue kept him in the lappe of the catholike churche that is the auctoritie of the same churche by which we ar taught to giue credite vnto the ghospell For as he reasoned thus ageinst Manichaeus Quibus ergo obtemperaui dicentibus c. Those therefore whome I beleuid bidding me beleue the ghospell why shoulde I not giue credite to the same men warning me not to beleue Manichaeus so maie yow or I saie to all such factiouse men as labour to bring vs from the obedience of the catholike churche of Rome to their parte The churche of Rome the mother and chief of all other taught vs Englishe men first to beleue the gospell and other knowledge the reof then which we had from that church we haue none Why should we
the actes of heretikes theues paganes Iewes and diuelles yow yeat chalenge the gloriouse title of true Christians and good catholikes THE nexte cause hathe bene for that I finde in youre religion no certeine rules or principles to builde vpon but such as hauing hetherto bene chalenged by all the auncient heretikes for theirs maie welbe called starting holes for youre foxishe generation being sore pressed to flee vnto For proufe whereof graunte to an heretike those principles which yow demaunde to be graunted to yow of which these arre parte that nothing is necessarily to be beleuid and folowed as a truthe but thaâ— which maie expressely be founde in the lettre of the scrip ture that of the sence of goâ—des worde and true meaning thereof there is no other iudge then the scripture it â—elf as of the which one place faileth not to expounde an other that Christes churche is inuisible with such like and there was neuer yeat heresie so absurde but that he wilbe able ageinst yow and all youre companions to defenâ—e it Whereas the catholikes on the other side haue for theire parte such contrary groundes as wherewith the auncient writers haue alwaies contended ageinst the olde and auncient heretikes For they saie with S. Basile that many thinges haue bene deliuered to vs necessary to be beleâ—ed by Christ and his apostles whereof the scripture maketh no mention at all They teache with S. Austen as yow harde before in the first cause that the churche of Christ is visible And with him also they arre bolde to saie that in doutefull questions arising apon the vnderstanding of the lettre we must appeale to the churches determination AN other reason in the prosecuting whereof also I must craue pardon at youre haÌ„des if perhappes it chauÌ„ce me to touche youre parson more neerer then yow woulde I should remembring alwaies that eae maximè sunt salutaria remedia quae acerbissimeÌ„ doloruÌ„ faciunt is for that yourâ— doctrine being first grounded and then continually after supported and mainteined by lies it can by no meanes be that it euer should procede from the spirite of god Which being the spirite of all truthe hath no nede of the helpe of lyes to be vnderpropped withall Be not your lyes M. Iuell in slaundring of men in false translations in wronge allegations vttred the rather to deceaue without cotatioÌ„s in mangling and tearing of the Doctours and Councells as it pleaseth yowe and best maie make for your purpose so manifest and to the worlde so well knowen that theie can be concealed no longer What opinion might thinke yow the Councell of late assembled the moste vertuouse learned and wisest heades of the worlde haue of yow and youre doinges when in youre Apologie emongest so manie lies â—heie founde that of all other moste grosse and impudent in which yow sclaundred so wickedlie the flower of this age Hosius the Cardinall What maie youre owne countrie men thinke of youre religion when to place it the more easely there yow feined as I noted before in comparing yow with the Donatistes that the catholike bisshoppes had consented to the banishing out of the realme the pope and his auctoritie But hereof I forbeare to write anie more forasmuch as it hath by me allready benâ— sufficiently vrged Onely of this I can not but warne yow mine owne deare countrie men to take good hede to haue alwaies a diligent eye to this lieng and suttell generation and to thincke euer with youre selues that they who in thinges so euident and manifest done at home euen at youre owne noses haue not refreined so impudently to abuse yow will make no curtosie or haue any conscience in thinges more more secrete or priuey to do the same And therefore maruell not by the waie that M. Haddon hath borne Hieronimus Osorius a straungier a Portugall a man ignorant of oure affaires in hande that religion was not altered in this realme nisi conspirantibus ecclesiae proceribus but by the consente of the bishoppes or that he made him of oure abbayes this accounte that they were distâ—ibuted pios ad vsus scholarum A cademiarum Zenodochiorum to the godlye vses that is to saie of scholes of vniuâ—rsities and hospitalles That the pope for a certeine ordinarie tribute to be to him yearelie paied giueth his priestes free licences and dispensations vnder his greate seale openly to kepe concubines without controllemeÌ„t is it not an abhominable lie Of that reuerende olde man and greate learned clerke M. Doctour Clement whome in youre Apologye yow haue also to the worlde moste shamefully sclaundred what shall I heare speake seing that he religiously denieâ—h that fact which yow barely without proufes without witnesses layâ— to his charge Which deniall of his I doubte not shall emongest the better sorte be taken to be of as greate force against youre false and vntrue reporte as was the answere of Aemilius Scaurus that noble Romaine made in fewe wordes to the long and odiouse oration of his infamouse accuser Varius Sucronensis vttred before the people of Rome in these wordes Quiâ—â—tes Varius Sucronensis ait Aemilius Scaurus negat vtri crediâ—â—â— That is to saie Varius Sucronensis O ye Romaines affirmeth Aemilius Scaurus denieth whether thincke you it best to beleue The which wordes were no soner spoken so well werâ— their honesties bothe knowen to the people but he was with greate applause of the commons pronounced innocent and his aduersarie coÌ„demned in his owne action If to establishe youre doctrine yow vse thus to sclaunder and belie the aduersaries thereof two thinges will folowe thereapon First that yow shall take from vs all manner of merueile why yow so falselie reporte the olde fathers who were to this worlde so manie a hundred yeare sence deade seing that euen of them who be yeat a liue whose bookes and tongues whose bodies and whole liues manifestlie beare witnesse of the contrarie yow doe the like And secondarily yow shall giue men occasion to thincke that such doctrine is verie weake the which to be vnderpropped must haue such staies What shoulde we iudge of youre translation of the holie scriptures who turn the worde idolum or simulachrum in to the worde imago an image and this forsothe to make vs beleue that all the passages of scripture that speake ageinst the heathen and Gentils Idols speake also ageinst the Christians images as though betwene an idoll and an image there were no difference at all What ment yow but to bring the ordre of priestehode in hatred when in all places of youre Englishe bibles where priestes haue bene praised where anie thing soundeth to their commendation yowe call them ministres absteining vtterlie from the name of priestes whereas contrarie wise where their behaueor hathe bene euell yow spare not that name but vse it frelie Castalio whose translation of the bible is so well liked by youre parte when he cam to that place in the ghospell Dic ecclâ—siae tell the churche
of thiese wordes must nedes be atteined by the conference of one place of scripture with an other and to that ende doe they not fondly alleage S. Paule callyng Chryst a rocke yea Chryst calling hym selfe a vine when he was in dede neither the one nor the other but by a fimilitude As though because th' apostle or Chryst hymself vseth a fygure in one place we must thincke that in all other he neuer spake other wise By which abhominable doctrine what letteth if a man would be so wicked to affirme that Chryst the sonne of god and second parson in trinitie wer not the true and naturall sonne of god but by adoption onelye and for that wycked heresy to bring this texte dedit eis potestatem filios dei fieri he gaue them power to be made the sonnes of god Which wordes we knowe being spoken by vs men must be vnderstand by grace and adoption and frowardly to mainteyne that all the places whych any good man can bryng for the defence of the contrary should be drawen to thys texte alleaged by them and expownded and vnderstand thereby The Anabaptystes who deny the baptesme of infants leane they not thyncke yow to thys grounde of yours yea truely and good reason it is that being all heretykes as you ar although in some poyntes dissentyng yet all ioining and agreing in one cancred hatred against the churche you should all vse the same rules and principles For that I may here passe ouer that reason of the Anabaptistes which belongeth to an other place that therefore infants must not be baptized because it is not expressed in scripture a principle also of your religion but deliuered vnto vs by tradition saye they not also that they haue the scripture playne for them ageinst vs where yt hath Qui erediderit baptizatus fueriâ— saluus erit he that beleueth and is baptized shalbe saued and again in an other place vna fides vnum baptisma one faythe one baptesme By whych places say they it appeareth that say the must goe before and baptisme folowe after And when the catholykes to represse and vtterly ouerthrowe this bruâ—ysh and beastely opinion answer that for infants thus baptized the faithe of the churche is sufficient and accounted for theirs crie they not as yowe doe that in this controuersâ—e one place of scripture must expound an other and that therefore where as the scripture requireth in him that is baptized faith that theie must haue it of their owne according to th'apostles saieng fides ex auditu faithe commeth by hearing which infants can not haue and according to the saieng of the prophete Iustus ex fide sua victurus est the iust man shall liue by his owne faithe I am sory that in answering to this fond reason I haue bin compelled to make anie mencion of such horrible heresies as thiese ar which I had much rather wer with their first authors buried in hel from whence theie cam where neither they nor their name might euer hereafter offend the conscience of any good christian man But as I haue necessarily laied before your eyes thiese that by a part yow may iudge of the whole so haue I willingly staied my self from rehercing whole swarmes of such opinions as being of all men taken for confessed heresies onely depend apon this one false ground that we nede here in earthe no other iudge to decide and determine doubtes arising upon the sâ—ripture then the scripture it self whych being they saye laied and conferred to gether one text with an other will not faile to bring vs to the right vnderstanding thereof If your hartes good readers be moued with thiese heresies in the reading as truely god I take to witnesse mine was in the writing abhorre those that teache them shonne and auoide such principles and groundes as haue byn the foundacion not of thiese onelie but of all that now reigne in the worlde and may be of any other hereafter that any desperate heretyke lysteth to inuent Stick to those by which all heretykes haue byn and thiese shalbe to their vtter confusion vanquished Shrincke not rashelie from that fundacioÌ„ whereon your elders and forfathers fastening them selues haue passed ouer so many hundred yeares in the true confession of one god one faith one truthe to them that hauing yet scarse fourty on ther backes haue notwithstanding emoÌ„gest theÌ„ creaping all out of the filthy neast of one Martin Luther so manie faythes and yet no faith so many truthes and yet no truthe neuer a one agreing with the other as there be mad frantick heads emongest them Giue no eare to that subtil generation walcking in the darck like blinde battes without a head without a iudge and all to thend ther iuggeling might not be espied Tell them that yow haue sene them thriue so euel apon that presumption of theirs so many heresies so many schismes and lewd opinions brought in thereby that yow ar at a poinct with your selues to leaue them and take that way that S. Hierom in the like case hath doen before yow who although his knowledge in the tongues wer such as by the report of most men it passed anie others in his time yet would not he take apon him in the discussing of doutes to leane to that rule of theirs to lay and confer to gether one texte with an other but referring him self to the see of Rome he alwaies protested that by that seate and faithe praised by th'apostles owne mouth would he be counceled and ruled Beatitudini tuae id est cathedrae Petri communione consocior To your holines saith he writing to Damasus then the bishop of Rome that is to say to Peters chaire am I ioined in communion and he addeth a cause whie Super illam Petram aedificatam ecclesiam scio I knowe that on that rock Peters chaire the churche is builded Say vnto them as S. Hierom said vnto the the heretikes Vitalis and Miletus because they ar aduersaries to this seate that yow knowe them not that they scatter and ar schismatikes alltogether out of the churche that gather not with Peters successor Tell them boldelie with S. Austen that yow will owe neither sute nor seruice to their chaire of pestilence nor be a membre of that bodie that either lacketh a head and is a dead tronck or hath many and is a liue monstre Aske of them with what face they could so many yeares to gether call king Henrie the eight supreame head of the churche of England immediatlie vnder god and nowe our gracious souereigne lady his daughter supreame gouernor in all ecclesiasticall thinges and causes ouer the same which how so euer they please them selues with fine fetches and coloured deuises is with th'other title in effect all one if this reason of theirs wer good Christ is head of the churche therefore there is no other head thereof vnder him And how was king Henrie then if they say that
of England I could not me thought either for their part which I coueâ— to make as strong as the naughtines of the cause will suffer doe better or for mine owne assurance worcke more warily then to take and cull out such proufes as for the maintenaunce of their opinion they haue there heaped to gether For them because there I persuade my selfe the reader may finde the verie force and strength of all that they haue for theÌ„ selues in this matter to saie as the place where bothe of good reason they should and for their craftie conueiance I nothing doubte but they would bring furth of their groundes the very best if they haue any better then other For my parte or rather for Christ and his churches whose quarell although farre vnworthy at this time I susteine it shall thus stande in steede that if it fortune in your iudgementes good Readers their said groundes and reasons to seeme such as any good man yea happely with some of them some of them selues may mislike they caÌ„ not yeat flee to their olde starting hole that it is but one doctours minde as they vse being sore pressed customably to doe whereas the booke bothe by the manner of the publishing thereof appeareth and sence hath byn acknowleged to be no priuat mannes acte The first argument therefore of theirs to proue that lay men in that they be kinges may take on them the ordering of matters in religion that to them belongeth the auctoritie and ouersight thereof is taken froÌ„ the example of Moyses who being a ciuile magistrat receiued neuerthelesse at the handes of almighty god bothe the charge and ordre of all the religion and ceremonies deliuered the same to the people and when Aaron being a bishop had contaminat the true religion by making the golden calf he failed not sharpely to rebuke and reprehend him therefore To this argument good Readers which out of this example they frame that therefore by good consequence it foloweth that the kinges emperours and other ciuile magistrates of our time may doe the like thus doe we answer that that auctoritie which Moyses had ouer the priestes was not because he was a prince but in that he was a priest as appeareth most euidentlie in the psalme where he is so called But ageinst this answere laboureth as they say with toothe and naile the author of that booke which walketh abrode in manie mennes handes vnder the name of a harborough for faithefull subiectes whose replie is this that in that psalme how euer the olde interpretors haue giuen vs the word the hebrue text hath Cohanim a word indifferent to signify priestes or princes aud that therefore such as doe best vnderstand the tongue giue it thus Moyses Aaron inter ministros eius Moyses and Aaron emongest his ministres And to proue that it may well so be the scripture he saieth calleth Dauid his sonnes Cohanim that is to saie ministres for well he woteth that no man wilbe so fond to saie that a kinges sonnes wer priestes yea he addeth that the best emongest the Hebrues interpreting thiese wordes giue it in Chorei Shemo Moyses AaroÌ„ inter eos qui inuocaÌ„t nomen eius Moyses and Aaron emongest them that call apon his name Thiese in effect be the reasons that moued the man to thinke that Moyses was no priest To be short Whome he taketh for the best or whome he accoÌ„pteth for the worst in the hebrue toÌ„gue or what his habilitie to iudge thereof is I confesse in good fayth I knowe not But of this I am well assured that S. HieroÌ„ Pagninus and whose translatioÌ„ for his religion he nede not to suspect Sebastianus Munsterus emongest all men taken for singulerly learned in that tongue inrerpret the worde to signify priestes And if all this satisfy him not the 70. interpretours traÌ„slate it so For thiese ar theire wordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is Moyses and Aaron in the nombre of his priestes And for so vndoubted a truthe was it taken with S. Hierom that he in the exposition of this psalme vsed thiese wordes Vterqué Moyses scilicet Aaron domini aduentum sacerdotali praeconio nunciauit Bothe of them that is to say Moyses and Aaron did with their priestly voyce denounce before hand the comming of our lorde Now touching the indifferency of the worde Cohanim to signify a minister or a priest we graunte it to be true but that because in some one place it so signifieth it ought therefore so to be expouÌ„ded in this that we vtterly denie And for proofe hereof we bring Abrahamus Esdras emongest the olde Rabbini called Sapientissimus He expownding this place of the psalme calleth Moyses and Aaron by the name of priestes And because no man should cauill about the ambiguitie of the worde Cohanim he graunteth it to be a worde doubtfull But to take away all such ambiguitie and to make vs assuredly vnderstaÌ„d when it signifieth this or that he giueth this rule that being ioined and applied to the name of god or any thing to him belonging as here it is it signifieth allwaies a priest but otherwise referred to prophane thinges a minister as maie be answered of Dauids children in the second booke of kings the .8 chapiter And surely so long as he standeth apon his bare vauntes of the best without naming at all any I se no cause but that we may well rest in that interpretacion which thiese â—ower for their knowledge in that tongue of the learned sort accompted most excellent beside the nombre of the .70 interpretours haue deliuered vnto vs especially seing that interpretacion which the very best emongest the Hebrues he saith haue giuen apon that place that is Moyses and Aaron emongest them that call apon his name I thinke to him that considereth well the wordes that followe Et Samuel inter eos qui inuocant nomen eius will seme and proue to be euen the very wurst But because yow shall well perceiue that Moyses was in dede a priest beside the testimonies allready brought furth I shall here alleage certein other to proue the same First S. Austen writing apon the same psalme where bothe he and Aaron ar called priestes maketh as it wer ageinst the priestehood of Moyses a certein obiection and afterward concludeth that Moyses was not withstanding a priest His wordes ar thiese Ibi quidem non videtur sacerdos essenisi Aaron Aperâ—è enim in illis literis Aaron nominatur sacerdos dei De Moyse noÌ„ ibi dicitur quòd sacerdos erat Sed si hoc non erat quid erat Nunquid maior sacerdote esse poterat Expropriat psalmus iste quia ipse sacerdos erat Moyses Aaron in sacerdotibus eius Ergo erant illi domini sacerdotes that is to say there it semeth that there was no other priest but Aaron for in that place is he plainelie named a priest but of Moyses there is no such word
yowe to conclude that therefore he must be worshipped in heauen trulie I knowe not but suer I am that the argument holdeth à loco topico Baculus stat in angulo Ergo Christus non est in coelo I am lothe here to presse yowe with farder auctorities in this pointe bothe because I woulde not gladlie stray froÌ„ that which I haue in haÌ„de and also least therebie you might falsely thinke that you had trulie answered the place allreadie alleaged And therefore I forbeare to laye to your charge Chrisostomus who exhorteth in a certcine place of his worckes all Christian men to imitate and folowe those barbarouse men who worshipped Christe lienge in the mangier in worshipping the same on the altar who telleth yowe and vs all twise in one sentence that Christes blessed bodie being in heauen is showed vnto vs here in earthe and that it is Summo honore dignum worthy the chiefest honour But although of gentlenes I release yowe of the paines in answering to these places of S. Chrisostome yeat all the worlde loketh for thus much at youre handes that yowe shoulde giue some reason for as much as yow so vnderstande the place of S. Austen whie Christes bodie maie not aswell be worshipped on the altar as it shoulde in heauen If yow saie because there it hath annexed to it the diuinitie doe we separate them on the altar Or doe we directe our worship to it for anie other cause then for that it hath the deitie inseparably vnited thereunto wherefore of fine force yowe must confesse that seing S. Austen hath graunted that Christes bodie is receiued of vs here in earthe and yowe can giue no reason whie it should be rather honored in one place then in an other that he ment as he spake of honour to be to be doen thereto then and there as it is receaued which is not in heauen but in earthe And trulie if there wer no auctoritie therefore very reason doeth conuince the same For who is there so folishe or rather starcke madde that if his prince should doe to him being a pore man that honour that he would vouchesaufe to visite him in his pore cotage like a rude beaste without cap or knee would stande staring in his face and saie that when he meeteth him in his courte or findeth him in his throne as though there vnto wer tyed all his princely power and that he caried not the same with him whither so euer he went then he will not faile to doe his dutie to the vttermost Who would not detest such a lourdaine that whereas for such exceading greate kindenes of his lorde and king he ought the more to haue honored him he abuseth now the same as a cause to take all honour from him But let vs returne to S. Austen and of manie testimonies that he hath concerning the truthe of this controuersie alleage onelie one other which is there where he expoundeth these wordes of the psalme Et ferebatur in manibus suis and he was caried in his owne handes His wordes ar these Ferebatur enim Christus in manibus suis quando commendans ipsum corpus suum ait Hoc est corpus meum Ferebat enim illud corpus in manibus suis. The wordes saieth he of the prophete ar founde to be true not in Dauid for how he or anie other could carie him selfe according to the lettre in his owne handes we finde not but in Christe for he was caried in his owne handes when coÌ„mending his bodie to his disciples he saide This is my bodie For he caried that body in his handes If the diuels ministres will here goe about to persuade yow good readers that S. Austen ment not that Christe caried in his haÌ„des his true bodie but a figure thereof tell theÌ„ that S. Austen excludeth all figuratiue speche in that that he hath how Christe caried him selfe according to the lettre and that if he had ment as theie saie he did it had bene no greate harde thing for either Dauid or anie other to cary in his handes the figure of him selfe If they yet presse yow with that that S. Austen vseth the worde quodammodo after a certeine maÌ„ner tell them that he meÌ„t not therebie to infirme the truthe which before he had so manifestlie confirmed but to teache the manner to be miraculouse and aboue the reache of reason and withall to withdrawe vs from such fonde fantasies as discussing this misterie by the manner of reasoning in other thinges we might perhappes haue fallen in to I would here make an ende of alleaging anie more auctorities for the confirmatioÌ„ of this article wer it not that happelie some man might thincke that I contemned that notable piller of Christes churche in Grece Chrisostome if out of him hauing for this controuersie so manie testimonies as in no one there can either more in nombre or stronger in proufe be founde I should not also bring to lighte one at the leaste or two He therefore when he compared together the departure out of this worlde of our sauiour and Helias and noted therein this difference that the one Helias lefte behinde him to his disciple his cloke stripping him selfe thereof but Christe the other left with vs bothe his cloke for so calleth he there his fleshe shifting him selfe thereof and yet ascendid into heauen and caried the same with him also witnessed not he manifestlie his faithe in this controuersie If Christ left not his fleshe here behind him how could he theÌ„ haue saide that in that pointe he was like to Helias if yow saie that he left a figure of his fleshe or a representation thereof onely how is it theÌ„ true that he left the same behinde him that he caried with him seing that the scriptures teache vs that the fleshe wherein he ascendid was no such as Marcion saide suffred on the crosse and as yow affirme to be in the sacrament but reall naturall and true fleshe when he complained of the outrage doeÌ„ at Constantinople by the meanes of Thâ—ophilus B. of Alexandria where he saide the souldiors rifled the holie places of the churche and that the moste holie bloude of Christe was shedde and spilt on their garmentes did not he plainelie witnesse with vs ageinst yow Hetherto yow haue harde maister Iuell for one seuen auncient doctours of the primitiue churche all within fower of the first six huÌ„dred yeares that you demaunded But all this not withstanding you will yet perhappes stand still apon your negatiue and beare the world in hand that although I haue by diuerse auctorities alleaged sufficiently proued that Christes body is present in the sacrament forasmuch as the auncient fathers haue one that fleshe fedeth in the sacrament on his body and bloud an other that we eate the same fleshe and drinck the same bloud by the which we wer redemed that the bread in the sacrament is turned not in fourme or
shape but in nature that by a spirituall meanes the same fleshe and bloud is daily made by the handes of the priest apon the altar that before the consecration there is bread and wyne that after there is the body and bloud of Christe with such like that yet I say for all this I haue proued no thing because forsooth I haue not vouched your termes Really substantially corporally carnally or naturally If yow flee to this bare and miserable shift then shall yow doe all men to vnderstand that yow ar driueÌ„ to an Exigent when to defend your diuelish doctrine yow ar faine to cauill apoÌ„ wordes and termes which also you shall but wrangle about in vaine the thing it self being most euidently proued which those termes and wordes could doe no more then signify Besides that yow shall well showe your selues to be muâ—h either more foolishe or maliciouse then wer those faithelesse Capernaites Of whome there was yet no one emongest them all so voide of wit or fraight with malice who hearing our sauiour coÌ„mend to them the eating of his fleshe and drincking of his bloud beleued not streight waies thoroughly that he ment as he said of his true and naturall fleshe and bloud all wer it so that he neuer mencioned your termes Really naturally substantially corporally or carnally And truly to say the truthe I see no cause why yowe might not also if yow listed renew Marcion his heresie again and say with him that Christ suffered not in a true but in a fantasticall body if such pleas on your parte may be allowed that except certein termes such as yow list to demaunde can be founde otherwise let the truthe be vttred in wordes neuer so apt or propre yow will neuer graunt theretoe For the Euangelistes I pray you M. Iuell which of them euer told vs in describing Christes death and passion that his body was nailed on the crosse Really substantially with the rest of your termes And will you therefore with Marcion deny that he suffred in a trewe body onlesse we can finde to yow such termes as you demaunde Or if yow saie that in this article of our faithe you make no such demaunde but that yowe holde your selues fully contented with such wordes as you finde vttred in the scriptures for the expressing thereof Why then beleue you not as well the veritie of this article being by Christes owne mouthe first by the voice of his churche sence in all ages confirmed as you doe the Euangelistes touching the suffring of his blessed body Or why might not Marcion denieng Christes body on the crosse then haue bidden Tertullian and other that stroue against him proue it by these termes Really substantially corporally carnally or naturally aswell as you denieng it nowe on the altar driue vs to the prouing the presence thereof there by the same Especially the wordes vttered by the Euangelistes to ascerteine vs of the true suffring of Christes body on the crosse being no more manifest to that effect then ar the wordes of Christ to the other that is to giue vs to vnderstand of the true being of the same apon the altar Well yet shall I euen in this point assay to satisfie if it may be your deintie and delicat appetite Although this must I nedes by the way confesse that the auncient wryters vsed not thiese termes so commonly as the latter haue doen. For in that pure and vnspotted age of the primitiue churche when no heretike durst once open his mouthe to impugne this veritie there was not to say the truthe like occasion as sence Berengarius his time hath bin ministred Or rather the innocency and parfect simplicitie of those dayes thought it not necessary for them to vse your termes corporally carnally with the rest which had said the same body that suffred death on the crosse the same that walcked here on the earth whereas it might probably be thought that they whom such wordes should not persuade to yelde in this point to the truthe would not faile also in such wise to cauill and wraÌ„gle about the other that had they bene vsed neuer so often they would yet by one shift or other seme to auoid them and so coÌ„tinue in their olde heresie still And this I feare me will hereafter appeare by your doinges how euer for the time yow dally with your dilatory exceptions which being brought to wise meÌ„nes scanning be not all worth a blew point or a rotten rushe But nowe I come to your termes The first which is realiter Really is a barbarouse word and therefore of likelihod not to be founde in the learned eloqueÌ„t worckes of the auncient fathers Which thing maketh me to thinck that if in your chalenge M. Iuell yow ment good faith yow will not take it in euell parte if for that which caÌ„ not be had I giue you an other as good I meane for this terme really the word truly or verely For in right iudgement they signifie I dout not all one thing This being presupposed your chalenge touching this term may be answered by the words of our Sauiour where he entreateth of this most blessed sacrameÌ„t and in expresse wordes taught his disciples that his flesh which he would giue them and they should eate should be truly meate and his blood truly drinck Which if it be so then is it not by fiction or imagination as yowe and your companions dreame but in true and to speake after your manner in reall existence If yow say that the wordes of Christ be here by me racked and violently wresteâ— to a far other sense then him self had in them then turne I yow ouer to trye that matter to Hilarius that worthy Bishop of Poyctiers in Fraunce Who reasoning ageinst the heresy of Arrius as I doe now ageinst yours applieth them after this sort to the same purpose De naturali in nobis Christi veritate quae dicimus nisi ab eo discimus stultè atque impiè dicimus Ipse enim ait Caro mea verè estesca sanguis meus verè est potus De veritate carnis sanguinis non est relictus ambigendi locus Nunc enim ipsius domini professione fide nostra verè caro est verè sanguis est The which wordes in our English tongue sound thus Of the naturall veritie of Christ in vs what so euer it be that we teache except we learne it of him we teache bothe foolishly and wickedly For he saith him self my flesh is truly meate and my blood is truly driÌ„ck Of the truthe of his flesh and bloud there is not any place left to dout For now both by the testimony of our lord hiÌ„ self and by our faith it is truly his flesh and truly his bloud Hetherto Hilarius by whom in this place may be gathered good readers first that in the primitiue churche apon these wordes of Christ my flesh is truly meat c. the fathers and bishops of that age
grounded the doctrine of Christes true presence in the sacrament and so consequently that I deserue no blame who vse this auctoritie no otherwise then I finde by good and laufull recordes that the learned fathers of Christes church haue doen before me next that apon this doctrine once settled they buylded an other that Christ dwelled naturally and truly in vs against the Arrians who denied it And for so vndouted a truthe was this true and reall presence of Christ taken to be with Hilarius that blessed bishop that a littell before the place euen now alleaged to proue that Christ dwelled naturally in vs he vsed this argument or reason The word was truly made flesh in Christes incarnation we receaue the same word truly made flesh in our lordes foode Therefore he dwelleth naturally in vs. To this auncient father for the better iustifieng of this terme truly or verely I shall here adde the auncient councell holden at Ephesus one of the first 4. generall and therefore allowed with vs at home for good by act of parliament The fathers in this councell assembled to Nestorius who as by that councell it may appeare beleued the bread in the sacrament to be so turned in to flesh as that it should haue no manner of coniunction at all with the godhead nor be any other thing then the flesh of a pure and holy man wrote after this sort that we should thinck that we receiue flesh in the sacrament non vt hominis vnius ex nobis sed vt verè propriam eius factam qui propter nos filius hominis est factus vocatus that is to say not as the flesh of a man one such as we ar but such as was truly made his owne propre flesh who for our sakes was made and called the sonne of man Can there be any plainer proufe to show that Christes flesh is truly present in the sacrament then this M. Iuell You can not here shift of this place with Oecâ—lampadius and say as he most impudently did that this auctoritie is no part of th'actes of the councell For if yow so say the inscription of the epistle out of the which these wordes ar taken â–ª sent by the councell to Nestorius will ouerthrow you and proue yow bothe liers The wordes ar these Religioso amabili consacerdoti Nestorio Cyrillus quicuque sunt apud Ephesi synodum To the religiouse and welbeloued of god our fellow priest Nestorius Cyrillus and as many as ar gathered together at the synode of Ephesus By the which it appeareth that there was in the sending of this epistle common consent and agrement of them all which is ynough to sober wyttes and honeâ—t iudgements to proue that this epistle is and so ought of all men to be taken laufull and authentike But what labour I to proue by the auncient fathers this terme verely or which is all one therewith Really which in Iohn Caluin him self is to be founde in his coÌ„mentaryes apoÌ„ S. Paules epistles where he writeth thus Concludo nobis realiter in coena dari Christi corpus vt sit animis nostris in cibum salutarem I conclude saith he that in the supper is giuen to vs really the body of Christ to be to our mindes a wholsom meate Thus haue yowe had proued to yowe M. Iuell that Christes body is in the sacrameÌ„t truly and that we may not so much as doubte thereof that it is there naturally for that was Hilarius meaning when he prooued that Christ dwelled naturally in vs and last of all as Caluin hath and yow haue hard really Here I feare not a little least after the manner of children that whine and whimper till they haue gotten at their mothers handes some trifling thing such as their childishe appetite listeth after which so soone as they haue once fingred they streight way cast in the durt and traÌ„ple vnder their feete You will play the like part with her that of right ought to be your mother the Catholike church of Christ. And whereas to satisfy your waÌ„ton request not for any necessitie that she knewe you stood in thereof she showeth you by good and laufull recordes and some other such as your self in times past haue accoÌ„pted for sound and worthy credit where the body of Christ hath bene said to haue bene in the sacrament truly naturally and really and myndeth to doe the like in your other termes demaunded hereafter I feare me I say least when yow haue all your asking yow handel them in such homely manner as was said before by casting them in to the mire of your distinctions as you vse them to subuert the truthe not durty but poysoned Symbolice Sacramentaliter Spiritualiter and such other Which if yow doe thincking that to such places as expressely mencion that Christes fleshe and bloud is truly present in the sacrament may be answered that it is there truly by a figure by a signe Sacramentally or Spiritually then how euer this seeme to be a childishe guise yeat will it prooue in the ende an old knauish practise of Valentinus the heretike and his mates who liued almost fourtien hundred yeares ago For he and his as yowe ar not I am suer ignorant denied that Christ had any true or naturall body such as mans nature consisteth of graunting neuerthelesse that he suffred in true fleshe on the crosse as yow will perhappes cleaâ—ing to your distinctions not denie that he hath fleshe and bloud truly in the sacrament Now euen as Irenaeus told them when they so said Neque enimesset verè sanguinem carnem haâ—ens per quam nos redemit nisi antiquam plasmationem Adae inse recapitulasset Christ should not truly haue had bloud and fleshe by the which he redemed vs onlesse he had renewed in him self the old shape of Adam so may we tell yow M. Iuell saing that Christes flesh and bloud is truly in the sacrament but yet in a figure in a signe onely and spiritually that then he is not there at all hauing true fleshe and blouâ—â— the same that the scriptures and fathers say he redemed vs with all except he be in that old shape of Adam And thus much of the termes verily or Really and naturally or by nature The next of your termes is substaÌ„tially after the which manner of being I prooue Christes body to be present in the sacrament by Irenaeus Who after many vaine opinions of Valentinus and his compagnions by him rehersed as that Christ had a certein fleshe brought with him from heauen not true or naturall such as oures is with other like inferreth thereapon these wordes Sic autem secundum haec videlicet nec dominus sanguine suo redemit nos neque panis quem frangimus communicatio corporis eius est Sanguis enim non est nisi a venis carnibus a reliqua que est secundum hominem substantia that is to say By this meanes neither did our
yeat neuer was there any so vehement that could make all to hide their heades that some there were not who euen to the teethe of the proudest tyrants of them all standing at defence apon the walles defended not stoutely Christ and his churche For if it had bene otherwise then had the diuell as before hath bene sayed gotten the victorie and Christ taken the foile then had the churche which at Christes departure hence was bothe seene and knowen whereas by this meanes it should be neither not onely haue bene nothing at all auaunced but also in deede much abased By this that hath bene alleaged I trust you see M. Iuell and will easely confesse if not with me with Caluin yeat your late capitaine that Christes church◠must needes be visible that as his reason is we may knowe it to ioyne our selues thereto For a pooer piller shoulde it elles be to leane vnto and as homely a house for succour to flie to if when a man should stand in distresse and neede thereof he wer suer neuer to see it or knowe it by which meanes he should finde it Next after this yow will graunte I hope that this churche of Christ hath alwayes kept with it the truthe of gods worde and right vse of his sacramentes and in fewe wordes to comprehend all that it neuer yeat erred in any necessarie point of doctrine For if it haue as in your apologie yow labour in vaine to proue it maye then shall yow heare once again and as often as yow so saie yow must not thinck much to heare that Christ hath not kepte touche with his churche that he was from home when the diuell was there that hell gates by which one right well vnderstandeth heresies haue preuailed against it the contrary whereof after the scriptures S. Austen emongest the auncient writers most plainely affirmeth Thirdly it hath bene proued that this churche of Christ is not in partes but dispersed ouer the whole and therefore called catholike as much to saye as vniuersall Last of all the truthe will compell yow to confesse that there is no certein nombre of yeares limited or prefixed for the churche to be visible after which time it should be darckened and not be seene no more thē Christes promise made to aide it for euer can berestreined to any such certeine or determinate time Which being true then foloweth it that the churche hath bene aswell visible and preserued from errours thiese nine hundred yeares last past as it was in the six hundred before And then if it be so in what a plight yow be which confesse for vs that for nine hundred yeares the practise of the churche hath ronne on oure side we prouing for oure selues that for the six hundred yeares before it hath doen the like I praye you well to considre to laie youre hand apon youre hart and thincke apon it seriously This fundation layed let now yow and me imagine together which I haue oftentimes doen with my self alone that we were fiftie yeares agoe bothe mē liuing together in this worlde of good yeares and discretion that beginning then to mislike and suspect the religion thorough all the worlde vsed we sought for the churche of Christe which we were persuaded not to be emongest them who preached the worde and ministred the sacramentes as they did such a church for example as nowe is in England to be seene where the head should be a laie man a womā or a childe in no wise a priest where should be but two sacramentes where there should be no sacrifice yea the very name should be odiouse where in the sacrament of the altar should be saied to be nothing but bread and wine in the which there should be no inuocation of sainctes no prayeng for the dead no abstinence from meates on prescript daies where onely faithe should be taught to iustifie good worckes to be nothing auaileable or meritoriouse to the doers and finally in all pointes qualified according to the directiō of youre cōmunion booke Let vs I saie imagine that all waies presupposed that such a churche as I haue described is the true churche of Christ where we should in those daies haue sought after it where we should after long seeking to ioine our selues thereto to harbour our selues therein to rest oure backes thereat being all forweried with wādring from opinions to errours from errours to heresies haue at the length foūde it Or let vs discourse with oure selues whē after all this busie searche and diligēt enquiry therefore it appeared in no place what we had bene likely to haue saied the one to the other Truly what we would haue saied I know not but what we bothe should I know right well We should first haue entred in to a merueilouse mislike with oure owne wittes who being in nombre but two in learning and wisdome not the most excellent in a country on th' one side ageinst the whole wisdom of the world on the other had euer fallē in to any such foolishe fantasy or furiouse frenesy as to condēne the doings of all the rest to bring in place oure doltish dreames to thincke our selues onely to see and all other mē to be blinde to beleue that the moste learned the moste vertuouse should erre and we onely priuileaged that we might not We should haue remēbred our selues and with S. Austen haue saied Qui nō vult sedere in consilio vanitatis nō euanescat typo superbiae quaerens conuenticula iustorum totius orbis vnitate separata quae non potest inuenire Iusti autem sunt per vniuersam ciuitatē quae abscondi non potest quia supra montē constituta est montē illum dico Danielis in quo lapis ille praecisus sine manibus creuit impleuit vniuersam terrā He that will not sitte in the coūcell of vanitie let him not vanishe away with the shadowe of pride seeking after conuenticles of iust men the vnitie of all the world being seuered which he shall neuer be able to finde For the iust ar dispersed thorough out that vniuersall citie which can not be hiddē because it is founded apō a hill euē that hill that Daniel speaketh of in the which that stone that was cut forth without handes grew and filled the whole worlde Besides this we should haue iudged our selues men altogether faithelesse that giuing no more credite to Christes promise we would thincke his churche to haue byn by him at any time forsakē and the whole world inuolued and wrapped in an vniuersall darckenesse Whereas true faithe and good reason ought on the contrary part to haue persuaded vs that we had our selues rather bene starcke blinde not hable to see then that conspicuouse citie on the top of the hill sene of all other men should be remoued or quite ouerthrowen and Christ false in his promise If we should haue thought and saied thus then M. Iuell as I see no cause why we should haue