sinners c. but repent least that chaunce to you that came vpon them And againe looke I pray you howe you stumble in your owne tale You would prooue that none hath receiued their ministerie from the mouth of God you'speake of Paule did not Christ speake to him after his ascention from heauen and I pray you tell mee what ministration that euer was true came froÌ„ other then Gods owne mouth you are taught to flee such boasters like enough for so Satan hath alwayes taught his children And as concerning the badge whereby you woulde knowe them is as you set downe by publique declaration which is vtterly false For Moyses onely shewed his ministration to the Israelites Abraham to his children Noc to his familie Lott to his housholde and all the Prophets to Gods peculier children the Apostles in priuate houses c. And nowe to be short the disciples of Christe â–ª or his worde which are taught by the doctrine of Christ our sauiour out of the mouth of H. N. do confesse freely before all men the ground of their faith and religion and though you will not credit it yet it doth not followe that it is not so except this reason as God forbid should alwayes holde like as it hath holden of late Because men say I am a theefe therefore no proofe of lawe the testimonie of my neyghbours with whome I liue nor mine owne words against so simple an alligation must be permitted but all is vntrue nowe except it be to proue your false words slaunderous brutes trewe Here we finde will and vniustice on your parte to haue more rule then equitie or good reason And nowe therefore master Rogers will I euen out of loue to an admonition of you to your preseruation display vnto you a little of the difference betwixt the doctrine of H. N. yours He exhorteth according to the doctrine of Iesus Christ mentioned in the Scriptures to true repentâ—unce godly loue an vpright faith and dutifull obedience c. euen like as many of you at this day in words do but yet he with more power for he manifesteth according to the trueth that none among all the children of men shal be found meete in the sight of the Lord to beare the names of Christians boast they neuer so much of their Christianitie freedome or iustification by Christe in their vnregenerated life as they wil which hath not submitted them selues in true repentance vnder the obedience of Gods holie lawe which is administred vnto them in the seruice of Loue for to become first disciples of the same worde to a reformation of their owne wayes and not to go presently foorth with the knowledge and teach others as you do before they be come taught and reformed thereby neyther yet to iudge others therwith as you now do before they be come first iudged thereby which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the father And then being so taught vnto Iesus Christ in the holie lawe to take vp in the beleefe their crosse daily on them with Christ against the sinne which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the Sonne vntill that Christe which is the way the trueth and the life it selfe haue gotten a liuing shape or fourme in them by faith and that they through the Spirite of loue or Christ be raised vp againe in a newe life which he calleth the true baptisme in the name of the holy Ghost wherevnto all the Familie of Loue or of God at this day are louingly called and doe meane by Gods assistance most earnestly to endeuour themselues but yet with much more quietnesse mought they haue rest by such enimies to all godlynesse as you are Although you be vnaquainted with this doctrine â–ª or rather true baptisme here following yet would wee not therefore haue you belye vs according to your accustomed manner and saye that we deny the holy sacrament therof And although this infallible Christian doctrine of Loue Faith Obedience and Life which is taught by H. N. in the seruice of Loue accordeth with all Scriptures remaineth yet vnknowen much lesse practised amongst you free ones or Lybertines and this true repentance which is taught vnder the obedience of the holy lawe of God the Father this true crosse of Iesus Christ which is taught vnder the obedience of the beleefe of God the Sonne and this true resurrection or newenesse of life which is taught vnder the obedience of the loue of God the holie Ghoste is nowe blasphemed despised and resisted as an vnneedefull thing of you yet is the same neuerthelesse by the Familie of Loue or of God found to be the olde and true way corespondent with all the doctrine of the Apostles of Iesus Christ and therefore so needefull that without it looke ouer the Scriptures againe so mâ—ny as be wise among you there shall no man finde mercie with God or els through Iesus Christ become saued Then Alas master Rogers â–ª alas what haue you done I hope nothing yet but out of ignorance I would then you woulde looke better into the matter for if H. N. be a minister of the Lord then you haue much ouershot your selfe I leaue Stephan Bateman to the righteous iudgement of the Lord as one in whome there is small hope of any goodnesse Wherefore the Lorde God for his Christes sake graunt you eyes of vnderstanding and a repentant heart to aske forgiuenesse for so maliciously blaspheming Gods loue and trueth extended towardes vs out of mercie vndeserued and to aske mercie for deprauing such a gratious worke of God published forth nowe in the last time to all mens preseruation that desire to walke â–ª therein whereof we shal be right glad and then shal you be deliuered from that lying spirite which nowe seeketh like as in times past with moste horrible slaunders lyes to deface all good all such as indeuour themselues therevnto So shal it come to passe to Gods glorie your saluation our comfort Amen Your vnknowen friend The aunswere of I. R. to â–ª the letter of the Familie I Receiued a letter from you as from an vnknoweÌ„ friend conteining matter inuectiue against my booke as also verie many contumelious slaunderous speaches touching my honestie both which to aunswere you shall finde me readie and willing although not with like speach of disdaine sauouring of the spirite of enuie and not of loue To all which speach touching my honestie this shall serue for answere the Lord deale so and so betwéene vs as you vniustly charge me with waightes measures wares c but the contents of my booke disquieteth your moode the which you shal finde more large in aunswering 1 The first matter you tell me that no honest man woulde assay to defende so vnhonest attempts to defend my honestie I will not in this place my protestation shall serue but if the cause be dishonest then I am worthy great reprehension but you mistake me vtterly that I reprehend
slacke You once did abhorre the Pope as Antichrist and nowe doe imbrace an Authour a right chicken of the Church of Rome who hath opened the mysteries of the Masse and euery trifling toy therein at large in his booke intituled A declaration of the Masse Alas brethren is your faith which once you had in the mercifull promises of Christe Iesus come to this that an obscâ—re man whose person you knowe not and whose books you did neuer vnderstand aright hath stopped that liuely fountaine that did once flow in you Assuredly it is the malice of sathan that hath brought this to passe y you being led out of the way into the bypathes of mans deuices might perish in the same But my hope is that as many of you as pertaine vnto our Lord and sauiour Christ Iesus and are members of the holy communion of Saints shall at the last be brought to sée howe déepe you are fallen and how sore ye haue ben wounded eueÌ„ to death by that deceiuer Christopher Vittell a man borne as it were of purpose for that intent whose erronious spirit the Church of God hath tasted many ways And marke this thing well that man that once is entred into heresies not wel reclaynied is subiect to manifold temptatioÌ„s of our enimie which is well proued in your instructer Vittel who teaching the monstruous opinion of Arrius many yeares together now is possessed with infinite moe errours and is the childe of destruction tenne folde worse then before It is a wonder to sée that men hauing once knowne Christ Iesus do now notwithstanding denie the effect of his office which the doctrine of Henrie Nicholas doth in many pointes and yet is beléeued and imbraced very gréedily of you yea aboue measure It should appear that Christ was not surely fixed in your mindes for if he had no blast of H. N. Vittell nor any could haue separated you from the loue of Christ Iesus Such wandering errours are they subiect vnto that perfectly doe not imbrace our Lord Christ according to his promises manifested and declared in his worde but féede themselues with fantasies and deuices of men yea such men as neuer lerned Christ Iesus truly Such are verified in the scripture Exiére à nobis sed â—on erant de nobis They went out froÌ„ vs but they were not of vs. Euery errour that hath bene in the worlde hath had some patrones and defenders learned and skilfull men in science and arte but this errour of the Familâ—e hath neither Authour nor disciple which are indued with true knowledge or learning For H. N. doth despise such as bring foorth any doctrine out of the learnednesse of the Scripture he saith it is all seducing and lyes that such doe preach or teach yea and it is further auouched by H. N. that none of vs in the Church of God â—an teach the truth of Christ Iesus but only he and such Illuminate Elders as are brought vp in his Familie But as I haue before procéeded it is â—â—uenient that their Authour speak himselfe that the Familie may iudge that I deale indifferently His wordes be these In the prophesie Chap. 8. verse 6. Strangers which walke not with the Familie of Loue or deale falsly therwith tast not of the louely beeing for earthly are all their mindes and thoughtes The Scripturely learned man hath no knowledge of Gods matters hee can not vnderstand any tittle much lesse expounde or interprete the same to others All Scripture appeare to such couered secret in signes and parables neither comprehende they what the same according to the trueth is It is giuen onely to the Familie of Loue to vnderstande the sesecretes thereof Hereby it is manifest that H. N. doeth signifie vnto his Familie that none can speak the truth but he his Elders nor none can vnderstande the scripture but they Upon this persuasion it coÌ„meth to passe y few or none in the Familie doth credite or beléeue any other that teach except H. N. or his Elders How pernitious this matter is if you credite his speach shal appeare And if truth be tied except he be sent If H. N. can proue vnto vs that he is sent of God as he boasteth then he is to be credited but we haue shewed that his voyces are not the voyce of God reuealed to vs by Christe Iesus but méere contrarie therefore by no meanes to be credited For none that is sent by God will teach any doctrine contrarie to that whiche is reuealed in the scripture For we are not to beléeue him although he be an Angel from heauen For H. N. teacheth not Christ but himself extolling him selfe his doctrine and his wisdome which is a token and marke that he is not led by the spirite of God but is puffed vp with the arrogant pride of his minde in boasting maner whiche Gods children did neuer follow For the holie spirite doeth promise to dwell in the man that hath a lowly and humble heart and not in the proud and arrogant person that boasteth himselfe The spirit of God is neuer boasting but in humilitie méekenesse and patience doth set foorth the glory of God christ And because we may better take a â—â—ll vewe of H. N. and his spirite I will set downe his owne words wherby it may be the better discerned of what spirit he is His wordes are these In the preface to his crying voyce Although our cause for a time bee condemned and dispised yet the iust and vpright vnderstanding ones doe prayse and commende our godlie wisedome In the first exhortation Chapter 16. My children and you Familie of Loue giue â—are to me your father liue according to my doctrine that it may goe wel with you take heede to my doctrine and what I doe set foorth and teach that it may be a seale of life a witnes of truth in our heartes For it is your life Eodem libro capitulo If you humble your selues vnto the schoole of grace wherevnto you are called by me H. N. in the house of life and forsake your ignorant knowledge and good thinking then shall yee liue and inherite the peace In the Prophesie Chapter 4. O Ye Caynish ceremonie ministers and ye persecuters murtherers of the Abellishe vpright heartes ye haue falsely iudged the vpright harts as men worthy to be rooted out of the earth If therefore thou ceasse not from thy wicked workes and from thy iudging of God his matters whiche doubtlesse thou vnderstandest not therefore iudgest falsely if thou repent not all the curses of the Lawe shall be executed against thee In the last time the glorious Lordlinesse of the Lorde God shall in vs become manifested and declared in vs fulfilled Here mayst thou discerne H. N. and his boasting spirite howe he commendeth his godly wisedome then how he extolleth his doctrine saying that his doctrine is their life then he promiseth that his Family shall if they giue eare vnto him and his doctrine liue
say but at aduenture of the things which you neueÌ„r heard ne sawe I would you had played an honest mans part and had vsed but equall weight and measure not haue contrarie to your promise where you said you wil alledge the Authors words and neither adde ne diminish taken here three or foure linâ—s and then passe ouer tenne or twelue and then againe take two lines and againe passe ouer sixe lines take halfe a line c. and so make a sentence thereof Thus is your doings found out of so many as haue coÌ„pared your allegations with the bookes of the Authour Notwithstanding all this you protest that you are voyde of malice in your vntrue booke seeming rather to pitie the poore seduced people then otherwise intending enuie You promise likewise to put downe nothing wherof you haue not sufficient warrant by certaine in the Duche Church but sure I am not of Christes Church for as much as they exercise not their moutheâ— with Iyes but you haue heard so and therefore it is so men of good credite say so I had rather heare an honest poore mans report truly spoken then a riche credible man 's that is a lyar and it is well knowne to some of the Duche Church that your credible men are lyars yet can you be content to fauour their reportes And as touching the cyting of H. N. his owne words without adding or diminishing I am ashamed of your disorderly dealings therein that shall so appeare in the aunswere to the booke as ye shal be proued therein as in y rest a falsister of both The speach which you pretend to haue had with many of the company I dare affirme it to be a great vntruth is but a visard as you haue saide of them to couer your malice withall I would shame would let you tell the truth then should you say as it is that your mate E. L. one of your own familie hath prompt you forward in these matters especially against Christopher Vitall a man whose honest life and conuersation you were neuer able to come nearâ— nor shall vnlesse you mend your wordes deedes weightes measures and waxes But will you see one notable matter which you haue gathered out of this Authors wordes more that is The truth hath not bene taught in the world since the Apostles time but nowe by the Familie the Scripture affirmeth that Christ the onely trueth hath saide My kingdome is noâ— of this world and howe can the trueth be taught where the kingdome is not for it hath bene euer hid from the worlde and her wise but yet alwayes manifested amongst the outseuered ones from this world And euen as the enimies of the same trueth haue alwayes martyred Gods holye ones euen so nowe woulde suche worldlings as you are doe had you power thereto And this I assure you that the very same doctrine which those Martyres haue taught the same doth H. N. teach but you say truth seeketh no corners see your appliment herein Christe commandeth his disciples saying When they persecute you in one citie flee vnto an other we read that Christe also many times went from place to place to auoyde such your forefathers the Scribes and Pharisees who sought his life And I pray you did not Iacob flee from his brother Esau Noe from the whole worlde Lot from the Sodomites Elias from all men Dauid from Saule with infinite more examples Then howe doe you approue your matter It can belike be no truth except you allowe it to be true a sound consequent Likewise you say vntruely citing the wordes that the Illuminate Elders can not erre nor sin nor dare before the simple ones in Christes Churche approue their Authours doctrine you haue I am sure good warrant to seuer the Illuminate Elders in the godly wisedome and holy vnderstanding out of the Church of Christ. But I haue better to proue that you are not thereof You disallowe others of bosting bicause you might boast alone is the suffering with Christ to rayle vpon his true meÌ„bers or else in patieÌ„ce to take vp our crosse and so suffer till by his suffering in vs we be deliuered iustified but I dare say you vnderstand me not now from sinne death diuill and hell but your wordes are no slaunders as you thinke else woulde you season them with truth for very shame For were it permitted that companie with indifferencie to auouch the trueth of their cause as it is permitted you and your companie slaunderously to blaspheme you shoulde then bee shewed in your right colours Ye say also that their Rabies or Elders haue recanted Arianisme at Paules crosse as well might you be charged with other matter c. But your obiection is false witnesse my Lorde of Canterburie that nowe is and yet more were to be saide but the companie hopeth your conuertioÌ„ although at this present your brethren in Christ for their good faithes cause they haue in your licentious doctrine of predestination and free election fill all the prisons almost in England but what reason haue I to charge you therewith but forsooth to put you in minde that you looke to your selfe and yours before you reproue others which mee thinketh is but reason You giue a glaunce also at the greatest house in this realme which you wish were cleare of such errours but put vp your bolt I aduise you whether that house hath auctoritie to ouerlooke you and your adherents that may you knowe hereafter Moreouer you say you could if you listed to be a blab tell out many discentions among them who yet you confesse will not in their best thinges make you or any other acquainted much lesse in things against them selues but it is true like the rest all this is but to make your speaches wonderfull and your modestie greater then it is You forget thereby many Protestants I thinke excelling you in vnderstanding in Rome Spaine Italie and other places vnder the Bishop of Romes inquisitioÌ„ which holde it good pollicie to defend them selues their consciences in keeping them from such Tyranny Will you not allowe to others as you gladly challeÌ„ge to your self â–ª then we must say you are vnequall in your doings But wil you see the most egregious vntrueth that can be spoken by this newe shamelesse writer He alledgeth Iohn Leydon and Snypper Dolling at Munster in Westfalia which were duely punished for Anabaptisme by the gouernours and Lordes of that time and place as appeareth by many writers as Iohn Sleydon and others And because these men were Hollanders and as he affirmeth schollers of Dauid George therefore H. N. must be belike by that reason one of that confederatie For although many learned writers do affirme their matter to be Anabaptisme yet this man will haue it the Familie of Loue. Fulwell doe you open your malice herein as in the rest with your forefathers who saide that Christ had the diuell and was a wine bibber a companion of
the loue of God and Christ farre be that from me it is selfe loue that I discommende in your author and in you all of this family For the loue of God is manifested to vs by Christ our Lorde which is our onely comfort So God loued the worlde c. You loue your authour so wel that this loue of God little appeareth 2 Could any man you say rew the prosperitie of the householde of God except he were of the diuell no verelye If you were of Christs householde we as fellowes woulde imbrace you but straungers from that household ye are and as straungers lurke in corners 3 My foundation you say is against H. N. whom I neuer knewe nor vnderstode off True it is touching his person but by his doctrine he is not vnknowne to me whose bookes I haue to shewe 4 You say as Christ in the reuelation is shadowed by two caracters A. and O. so none can knowe his name except he ouercome in the spirite therefore we must be scilent hereafter for H. N. is not the signification of any mans name This is a great mistery in déede for if H. N. be not a man then haue I vtterly mistaken my selfe but sure the bookes were not written by Angels man was the minister and the man that write them his name is Henrye Nicholas the same mans life I haue truely set downe not hearesayes but the trueth not of enimies but of his neighbours familiers not one man but many they will not onely speake the trueth but are ready vppon their othes to testifie the same 5 Where you iudge that you are suer they are not of the Church of Christ it is very rash Iudgement I coulde testifie of their honest life and manners but it shal be here impertinent You make your comparisons vnequall because Christ by two letters did testifie his maiestie power as god will you admit H. N. by like reason to vse two letters significant In déede I haue â—en aunswered y H. N. signifieth Homo nouus but such follyes will not serue you must of necessitie acknowledge H. N. to be a man as one of our Family at Farnam before the Bishop of Winchester did acknowledge confes him that is to say H. N. not only to be a maÌ„ but also a sinner least you shuld burden me with vntruth as you haue done I will giue you his name R. W. 6 You put me in minde of my impudent dealing in that I haue saide that none of your family dare set forth your doctrine in principles that all men may sée wherein you and we differ you referre me to a little booke called The confession of the Family which booke I haue read but that is very plausible nothing differing from vs If you helde no worse pointes then that booke doth vtter suerly I would come before you al acknowledg my fault and craue pardon but this is a méere mockery of the people to set down your faith common with vs and nothing contrary to vs where as your authour in sundrie places tearmeth vs a diuellish Sinagogue or schoolâ— and that we are not the Church but a harloâ—t If you and we professe one Christ one baptisme one faith why are we seuered in communion but it is a worlde to sée your doings in this matter When any of your family are conueÌ„ted before any officer in Christes Church then you subscribe to any forme you recant in your owne churches you promise neuer to professe H. N. nor his doctrine and yet still after so sollemne protestations you reteine your secrete doctrine which in fewe wordes is not plaine dealing If your doctrine be a trueth why doe you still deny it if the power of God hath shone through H. N. so mightely why doe you not in principles drawe your doctrine that the people of God may sée vppon what groundes and stayes you haue seuered your selfe from vs but you vse the pollicy of the cuttle a fish whose property is to trouble the water that she may not be séene so with your darke speaches misteries you would cast a myst that no man should sée your meaning and then stande vppon your tiptoes and say that your sentences haue such profounde maiestie that our simple grosse capacities cannot comprehend the same Plaine dealing is euer best If we be in error shewe it to vs in what points and for my owne part I wil if you can conuince me by the testimonies of holy scripture yeald vnto you or any 7 What conference I haue had with your family dyuers of your family can tell you 8 You say my disorderly dealing shall appeare in the aunswere to my booke which for my part I shal long looke for for hitherto you haue not set down any one place where in I haue mistaken your author In déede I tooke not vpon me to write against any one booke but to display what absurdities I finde in your authors Doctrine you shall finde that performid or it be long by Maister Knewstubs who hath written a book to confute your Euangelium Regni You apply this text of holy scripture very fondly Christ saith my kingdome is not of this world 9 You aske howe the trueth can be taught where his kingdome is not If you meane by this worde kingdome power maiestie dominion then it is shewed in y world manifested to hys Church But by kingdome the Euangelist doth vnderstande as I take it an outwarde shewe of principalitie which the Iewes looked for to be in their deliuerer or Messias which he denied to be in him which may better appeare in that which followeth For then would my ministers surely fight for me 11. I knowe that Christ chiefly reigneth in his Churche but who are the Church is the question Euery heresie seeketh to shadowe it selfe with the title of the Church but by the life of Gods holy worde they haue béen found heretikes and seducers and yet I neuer hearde of any errour but drewe their doctrine into principles and durst disspute with any in their opinions except one Basilides whiche Eusebius in his 4. booke Chap. 7. maketh mention of who feining sundrie titles of vnknown names of Prophetes to amaze their hearers depending vpon Reuelations and visions amongest other thinges taught this that in time of persecution their faith with periury might bee denied saying Iura periura fideÌ„ prodere noli Now surely if I might without offence compare your dealings with Basilides it shoulde be founde little differing 12 You say that the same doctrine which the Martyrs taught in the primitiue Church H. N. teacheth nowe but wee plainely denie that euer any taught a perfection to bee atteyned vnto in this life to liue not daily committing sinne or that our battell is ended when we be re generat or that any H. N. hath receiued such power of teaching extraordinarie as you imagine For we denie that he hath the spirite of god and say that he teacheth
N. nor his doctrine and yet haue turned to the same againe we do not denye but that some haue beene constrained so to doe and that it is no plaine dealing And I pray you tel mee hath the like matter euer beene heard of ere this tune that simple men who can scarcely reade Englishe because they haue read a booke or heard it read should be compelled to yelde an accompt of the spirite of the author that wrote the same I thinke not except you will allowe by like reason that euery simple man that heareth a doctor preache should be compelled to deliuer forth all his diuinitie or els to be committed to straight prison Learned men dispute with the learned it hath euer yet suffised amongst Gods ministers a simple person to yelde an accompt of his beleefe simply c. were not thinke you playner dealing better you say that wee vse the propertie of the Cuttell c. Do you not remember that the fleshly minded Iewes could not see their Sauiour when he was dayly amongst them yet they boasted verie stoutly of their sight and would not in any case confesse their blindnesse Wee stand not vpon our tiptoes as you say but we dayly acknowlege our blindnesse and waite vpon the Lord for our sight Wee say not that you are in errour but wee say that we haue through that sinfull nature of the fleshe that earthly lying being which hath wrought that disobedience in Adam where through we are all fallen beene bewrapped in all ignorance and blindnesse and for that cause are not ashamed to confesse our errour Wee will not go about to conuince you by the testimonies of the holy Scriptures for that lyeth not in our power neither were wee so dealt withall It is the Lorde by his grace that hath conuinced vs and brought vs vnder his crosse ▪ if he also conuince you then are ye rightly conuinced and so the praise thereof appertayneth onely vnto him And whereas you desire to knowe wherein you haue mistaken the author to that we saye that you haue not set downe any whole sentence but patched peeced the same without all order contrarie to your promise For you say you will not adde nor diminish but set downe the authors wordes worde for worde which you haue done euen as one may take the tenne commaundements and leaue out some wordes thereby say that God commaunded such things as for example Thou shalt haue none other Gods but mee Thou shalt not steale Thou shalt not committ adulterie c. Leaue out none not and then what is the commaundement If this be good dealing then you haue dealt well let all men iudge You say moreouer you tooke not vppon you to write against any one booke but to display the absurdities you found in the auctors doctrine which wee shall fynde perfourmed ere it be long by master Knewstub who as we suppose shall displaye him selfe therein euen like as you haue in your booke displayed your selfe and your adherents You say we apply this text My kingdome is not of this world c. verie fondly we take his kingdome not to be outward but inward vz. peace righteousnesse and ioy in the spirit which things the world is ignorant of you may expound it at your pleasure though we expressed our minde therein in plaine dealing mought it please you so to take it You say moreouer you knowe that Christ raigneth in his Church but who are the church is the question In deede master Rogers you say verie well and nowe giue vs leaue to vse plaine dealing with you least otherwise we mought happe to slaunder or belye you In your book one leafe before your admonitiō to Christopher Vittell these be your owne wordes Howe H. N. iudgeth of vs because wee acknowledge our selues to be of the Church of Christ. For that cause if thou nowe accompt not thy selfe for an whoore but esteemest thy selfe for the faithfull espowsed wife of Christ c. And nowe for as much as we vse not neither are so taught in the seruice of loue to iudge rashly or vnaduisedly of any people to their reproche like as you haue done of vs let vs intreat you to read in the booke called The prophesie of the spirite of loue the tenth Chapter sect 12. 13. 14. and in the 11. 12. Chapters throughout and then see with an vnparciall eye what manner of Churche that it is which he doth there reproue you shall finde it in deede to be that fleshly wicked nature that lying being which spareth not with his earthly knowledge to set it selfe to iudgement and to giue sentence of the godly matters which he calleth a false seede an adulterous generation of the earthly man which hath inhabited the earth with vnrighteousnesse iudged it falsely with her lyes seduced the simple oppressed the little ones murdered the holy ones of God and spylt the innocent bloud on the earth He calles it moreouer a bronde of the venomous Dragon yea of the diuell and of the earthly lying generation which is begotten of the seede of the Serpent and viperous generation which hath alwayes beene a false and a wicked whoore vppon the earth c. which church you nowe do challenge to your selues and acknowledge your selues as members of the same euen like as wee in times past haue also done Which thing so soone as the Lorde let vs see into then fell wee down before the Lorde and shamed not to confesse our faultes before him as that wee had ouerlong taken parte with that whoorishe nature of the earthly fleshly and sinfull being whome wee do nowe by Gods grace vtterly abhorre hoping dailye by the might of Christe Iesus our Lorde to see her filthie nakednesse in vs and in manye disclosed abhorred and reiected for euer more You desire to knowe of vs the difference betwixt you and vs Could any man tell it more plainly then you in your wordes haue here manifested the same Consider aduisedly of it so shall you not neede henceforth to demaunde of vs any further resolution in that point but must of necessitie if you doe well fall downe before the Lorde and crye with vs Peccauimus cum patribus nostris iniuste egimus iniquitatem fecimus You charge vs vniustly with the errour of Basilides as though wee were forswearers of our selues whereas yet notwithstanding there hath neuer beene proued any such matter against any of that companie or in any of all that authors workes which may well suffise to stop your mouth if trueth will serue to aunswer you And yet I remember that Tindall a learned man and writer in his booke of Obedience writeth these wordes Breake not vp into the consciences of men after the example of Antichristes disciples which compell them eyther to forsweare themselues by the Almightie God and by the holie Gospell of his mercifull promises or to testifie against them selues which abhomination our prelates learned of Caypha◠Math. 26.
Therefore to conclude for our true principles we referre you to the briefe rehersall and for any other difference to these premisses and all other doubtes we haue sufficiently resolued you as wee thinke in plaine speeche out of hartie loue Let this therefore suffise for an aunswere at this time The Lorde for his mercie graunt you and vs all inclyned heartes to doe his will but first to leaue our owne will and to indeuour vs with all the elect of God and Christe to the renouation in the spirite vz. that wee all in one heart of godly loue mought as liuing stones bee fast couched or coupled together in Iesus Christe to an holy house temple or familie of Loue or of God in as much as God is Loue and not any longer to striue but much rather as seruanntes of the Lorde in all meekemindednesse to humble our soules vnder this his great grace loue and mercie wherevnto wee all are so louingly called and warned by him and his holie Gospell in the ministration of the loue in the last time Amen This aunswere is to your first Letter Your louers and friends F. L. The answere of I. R. to the reply of the Family of Loue. BY perusing of your reply to my first answere I perceiue that our conference is to small purpose for that you cōtinue stil of the same mind you were and your crabbed slaunderous words towards me is nothing impaired with your smooth answer saying we charge you not with weightes wares c. If you of purpose had not charged me here with what néeded any mention of such slaunders but as in other thinges so in this you bewray your stomacks and of what spirite you are You take witnes My Lord of Canterburie whose minde concerning your great Rabby Vittell is knowen to many You affirme the cause I take in hande is surely dishonest The cause is Christes whose office and death is impaired and made of no effect by your doctrine of perfection and shadowed by H. N. so darkely that the children of GOD abiding in the vnitie of his Church do greatly lament your follie You say I haue belyed and slaundered my poore neighbours impudently and yet you shewe no matter wherein only you finde fault with vnorderly setting downe your Authours spéech No man can kéepe order with him that is without order Of adding diminishing you often charge me and shewe not in what place nor in what sentence I will not vse your vnhonest tearmes of impudencie but surely you deale in this case as the Papistes are woont to charge the doctrine of Christs Gospell which we professe that it bréedeth sedition that it pulleth Princes out of their seats openeth a gap to liber tie c. which howe truely these are imputed the eies of al do at the last behold The feare of our rigorous dealing forceth you to lurke in corners you say what rigour I pray you was euer shewed either to you or your companions the Papistes for their conscience Imprisonment you would say vpon submission which is no rigor Of such an houshold as we haue challenged to our selues you say you are strangers we confesse our selues to be of no other houshold then of Christes staying vpon the puritie of his word if you will be straungers from the same willingly it is great pitie You had rather follow H. N. then Christ and yet confesse that H. N. signifieth not any mans name but hath some other meaning which you ne wee can tell What a lamentable case is this that men hauing any sence or vnderstanding would credite such vncerteine wayes to follow an Authour doctrine so egerly and yet confesse you are ignoraunt who he is or what he is As for your confession published as I saide it is a mockerie for it is sounde and agréeing to vs Why halt you so cunningly Why will you dance in a nett and not be séene Do you in your confession impugne the doctrine of predestination or the possibility of the law c. or doe you once mencion the same therein and yet in your letters you shewe your dislyking of such doctrine terming it licentious Is not this déep dissembling and yet call it plaine dealing I would not haue you accuse your selues as you vniustly charge me but vse a simple and playn trueth and shew your minds truely and not hide it craftely and set downe pointes of doctrine agréeable with vs and say it is your confession of faith where you conceale the chéefe matters in variance betwéen vs Oh when will you deale plainly a wicked doctrine requireth shiftes and delayes but trueth openeth her selfe plainly to al in y day light And for your weakelings which haue recanted you say they were suche as coulde scarsely read english You forget your selfe very much was Sharpe and his companie which recanted at the crosse were they suche as you would beare vs in hand simple Sharpe was a teacher and others that I could name were not of the least account among you yet to help their weakenesse you call them simple men c. I know that some of thē haue followed the doctrine of H. N. these 18. yeares I take you not to be so olde a scholler in the Family You say you wil not conuince vs by the testimonies of the scriptures for it lyeth not in your power neither were you so dealt withall Surely this is very straunge It is the Lord that hath conuinced you and brought you vnder his Crosse but I pray you came this to passe by reuelation or by mans ministery If man was the minister you would haue vs beléeue that H. N. was he but it appeareth not that you are vnder Christes Crosse for in patience he suffered all wrongs and there was no deceipt nor guile found in his mouth He commanded his doctrine to be published to all the worlde not in corners but on the house toppe not faintly and fearefully but boldely and couragiously he suffered contumelious spéech and slaunderous but you do vse spéech of slaunder and disdaine as appeareth so that you haue not learned Christes crosse but H. N. his crosse As for Maister Knewstubs doings as yet not exstant you rashly and foolishly cauill at him before you heare him and condemne his doinges before you sée them and say that he will display himselfe euen as I haue done This is impudencie in the highest degrée to iudge and condemne a man before he be heard what he can say this doeth bewray of what mind and spirite you are What conference can do you good It séemeth your heart is hardned with the riddles of H. N. y so make your selues knowen to all Gods children it had bene more agréeable to the spirite of God to haue suspended iudgement vntill the worke had bene séene My adherentes in diriston you often name I tel you truly that the church of Christ Iesus are those adherents for I mainteine no other doctrine then y which in Christs Churche by publique