his book or not iâ— not to what purpose doth he write â— if he doth then it is to be hoped soâ— matters of faith may be intelligibly conveyed by writing Especially if Mr. S. doth it but by no means we are tâ— believe that ever the Spirit of God caâ— do it For whatever is written by meâ— assisted by that is according to him buâ— a heap of dead letters and insignificanâ— characters when Mr. S. the mean while is full of sense and deâ—onstration Happy man that can thus out-do inâ—nite wisdom and write far beyond either Prophets or Apostles But if he will condescend so far as to allow that to inspired persons which he confidently believes of himself viz. that he can write a book full of sense and that any ordinary capacity may apprehend the design of it our controversie is at an end For then matters of faith may be intelligibly and certainly conveyed to posterity by the books of Scripture and if so there will be no need of any recourse to oral Tradition 5. If the books of sâ—ripture did not certainly and intelligibly convey all matters of faith what made them be received with so much veneration in the first ages of the Christian Church which were best able to judge of the truth of the matters contained â—n them and the usefulness of the books themselves And therein we still find that appeals were made to them that they thought themselves concerned to vindicate them against all objections of Heathens and others and the resolution of faith was made into them and not tradition as I have already manifested and must not repeat 6. Whether it be in the least credible since the books of Scripture were supposed to contain the doctrines of faith that every age of the Church should look on it self as obliged absolutely to believe the doctrine of the precedent by vertue of an oral tradition For since they resolved their faith into the written books how is it possible they should believe on the account of an oral tradition Although then the Apostles did deliver the doctrine of Christ to all their disciples yet since the records of it were embraced in the Church men judged of the truth or falsehood of doctrines by the conveniency or repugnancy of them to what was contained in those books By which we understand that the obligation to believe what was taught by the precedent age did not arise from the oral tradition of it but by the satisfaction of the present age that the doctrine delivered by it was the same with that contained in Sâ—ripture It is time now to return to Mr. S. who proceeds still to manifest this obligation in posterity to believe what was delivered as matter of faith by the precedent age of the Church but the force of all is the same still viz. that otherwise one age must conspire to deceive the next But the inconsequence of that I have fully shewed already unless he demonstrates it impossible for errors to come in any other way For if we reduce the substance of what he saith to a Syllogistical form it comes to this Where there is no possibility of error there is an absolute obligation to faith but there is no possibility of error in the tradition of any age of the Church Ergo in every age there is an absolute obligation to believe the tradition of the present Church The minor he thus proves If no age of the Church can be ignorant of what the precedent taught or conspire to deceive the next then there is no possibility of error coming into the tradition of the Church in any age but the antecedent is true and therefore the consequent Now who sees not that the force of all this lyes not in proving the minor proposition or that no age could conspire to deceive another but the consequence viz. that no error can come into a Church but by a general mistake in one whole age or the general imposture of it which we utterly deny and have shewed him already the falsness of it from his own concessions And I might more largely shew it from those doctrinâ—s or opinions which they themselves acknowledge to have come into their Church without any such general mistake or imposture as the doctrines of Papal Insallibility and the common belief of Purgatory The very same way that Mr. White and Mr. S. will shew us how these came in we will shew him how many others came in as erroneous and scandalous as those are For whether they account these matters of faith or no it is certain many among them do and that the far greatest number who assert and believe them to be the doctrine of their Church too If therefore these might come in without one age mistaking or deceiving the next why might not all those come in the same way which we â—harge upon them as the errors of their Church And in the same manner that corrupt doctrines come in may corrupt practises too since these as he saith spring srom the other He might therefore have saved himself the trouble of finding out how an acute Wit or great Scholar would discover the weakness of this way For without pretending to be either of these I have found out another way of attaquing it then Mr. S. looked for viz. from his own principles and concessions shewing how errors might come into a Church without a total deception or conspiracy in any one age Which if it be true he cannot bind me to believe what ever he tells me the present Church delivers unless he can prove that this never came into the Church as a speculation or private opinion and from thence by degrees hath come to be accounted a point of faith Therefore his way of proof is now quite altered and he cannot say we are bound to believe whatever the present Church delivers for that which he calls the present Church may have admitted speculations and private opinions into doctrines of faith but he must first prove such doctrines delivered by Christ or his Apostles and that from his time down to our age they have been received by the whole Church for matters of faith and when he hath done this as to any of the points in controversie between us I will promise him to be his Proselyte But he ought still to remember that he is not to prove it impossible for one whole age to conspire to deceive the next but that supposing that it is impossible for any errors to come into the tradition of the Church Let us now see what Mr. S. objects against those words I then used against the demonstrating this way It is hard to conceive what reason should inforce it but such as proves the impossibility of the contrary and they have understandings of another mould from others who can conceive it impossible men should not think themselves obliged to believe and do all just as their predecessors And whatever Mr. S. sayes to the contrary
of demonstrations But Mr. S. very prudently foresees what it is I must be forced to recurre to viz. that being baffled with his former demonstration I have no other shift to betake my self to but to say the case is different between histories and points of faith And therefore to bring his business home he applyes it at large to the delivery of the Christian faith which that he might do in more ample sort he very finely descants on the old Verse Quis quid ubi c. containing the circumstances of human actions and from every one of them derives arguments for the infallibility of oral tradition which briefly and in plain English may be summed up thus Since the author of this doctrine was the son of God the doctrine it self so excellent and delivered in so publick a manner in the most convincing way by miracles and good living and for so good an end as to save mens souls and that by writing it in mens hearts and testified to others and all this at a time when men might judge of the miracles and motives for believing it therefore since in all these respects it was imcomparably beyond the story of Alexanders conquests it follows that in a manner infinitely greater must the obligation be to believe Christs doctrine than Alexanders or William the Conquerours victories or any history of the like nature whatsoever All which I freely grant but cannot yet see how from thence it follows that oral tradition is the only rule of faith or the means whereby we are to judge what is the doctrine of Christ and what not Those arguments I confess prove that the Christians of the first age were highly concerned to enquire into the truth of these things and that they had the greatest reason imaginable to believe them and that it is not possible to conceive that they should not endeavour to propagate so excellent a doctrine and of so high concernment to the world But the question is whether abstractly from the books written in the first age of the Christian Church there is so much infallibility in the oral tradition of every age that nothing could be embraced for Christs doctrine which was not and consequently whether every age were bound to believe absolutely what was delivered it by the precedent for the doctrine of Christ Mr. S. therefore puts himself to a needless task of proving that every age was bound to believe the doctrine of Christ which I never questioned but the dispute is whether every age be bound on the account of oral tradition to believe what is delivered by the precedent for Christs doctrine But it is to be observed all along how carefully Mr. S. avoids mentioning the written books of the New Testament because he knew all his game about oral tradition would be quite spoiled by a true stating the matter of fact in the first ages of the Christian Church I hope he will not be angry with me for asking him that question about the Scripture which he asks me about the Council of Trent did he never hear of such a thing as the Scripture or is it so hard to find it But if he hath heard of it I intreat him to resolve me these Questions 1. Whether he doth not believe that the books of the New Testament were written at such a time when the matâ—ers of fact therein recorded were caâ—able of being throughly examined which he cannot deny upon his own â—rinciple for tradition being then inâ—allible as to the doctrine of Christ the writers of these books cannot be conâ—eived to deliver it amiss unless they â—esolved to contradict the present tradition of the Church which if they had done those books could never have found any reception among Christians If tradition then convey the doctrine of Christ infallibly these books must convey it infallibly because they contain in them the infallible tradition of the first age of the Christian Church and were written at that time when many persons living had been able to disprove any thing contained therein repugnant to truth And that these books were written by those persons whose names they bear I appeal to Mr. S's own rule Tradition for if that be infallible in any thing it must be in this and if one age could conspire to deceive another in a matter of such concernment what security can be had that it may not do so in all other things 2. Whether he believes that those whose intention was to write an account of the life actions and doctrine of Christ did leave any thing out of their books which did relate to them as of concernment for us to believe For upon Mr. S's principles any one may easily know what the tradition of the Church is and especially such certainly who were either present themselves at the matters of fact or heard them from those who were and what satisfaction can any one desire greater then this But the question is whether this testimony were not more safely deposited in the Church to be conveyed by word of mouth then it could be by being committed to writing by such who were eye and ear-witnesses oâ— the actions and doctrine of Christ Upon which I advance some further Queries 3. If oral Tradition were the more certain way why was anything written at all it may be Mr. S. will tell us for moral instructions and to give precepts of good life buâ— then why may not these be as infallibâ— convâ—yed by tradition as doctrines of faith And why then were any matters of fact and points of faith inserted in the books of the New Testament by which it certainly appears that the intention of writing them was to preserve them to posterity Let Mr. S. tell me whether it was consistent with the wisdom of men much less with the wisdom of an Infinite Being to imploy men to do that which might be far better done another way and when it is done can give no satisfaction to the minds of men 4. Whether those things which are capable of being understood when they are spoken cease to be so when they are written For Mr. S. seems to understand those terms of a living voice and dead letters in a very strict and rigorous manner as though the sense were only quick when spoken and became buried in dead letters But Mr. S. seems with the sagacious Indian to admire how it is possible for dead letters and unsenc'd characters to express mens meanings as well as words It cannot enter into Mr. S's apprehension how 24. letters by their various disposition can express matters of faith And yet to increaâ— the wonder he writes about matteâ— of faith while he is proving that matters of faith cannot be conveyed bâ— writing So that Mr. S's own writing is the best demonstration against himself and he confutes his own Sophistrâ— with his fingers as Diogenes did Zenoâ— by his motion For doth Mr. S. hopâ— to perswade men that tradition is â— rule of faith by
A REPLY TO Mr. J. S. his 3 d. APPENDIX Containing some Animadversions ON THE BOOK ENTITULED A RATIONAL ACCOUNT of the Grounds of PROTESTANT RELIGION By Ed. Stillingfleet B. D. London Printed by R. W. for Henry Mortlock at the Sign of the Phoenix in St. Pauls Church-yard near the little North-door 1666. An Appendix to the RULE of FAITH To his honoured Friend Mr. John Tillotson SIR AS soon as I understood your intentions to answer Mr. Serjeant I could not but rejoyce on his behalf as well as on the truths and your own For I have that real kindness for him that I heartily wish him that reason and science he pretends to which I could not but despair of his attaining unless he were undeceived in that monstrous opinion he hath of himself and his undertakings And I knew no person more fit then you to let him understand the trÌ„uth and himself together In which your performances have been so clear and satisfactory that I hope Mr. Serjeant in stead of another letter of directions to his Answerer will write you one of thanks for the reason and kindness you have shewed him throughout your Book Unless it fares with you as it hath done with some other Adversaries of theirs that their civility hath been interpreted as an argument of their uncertainty and their own confidence cried up for a demonstration In which sense only I shall grant our Protestant Writerâ— to build on uncertainties and Mr. White and Mr. Serjeant to be the great Demonstrators of this age If their own reason had been as severe as the censures at Rome against them they had saved us the labour of any answer and would have found out their own Sophistry without a confutation But the least thing we can imagine by their excessive confidence is that they are deceived themselves and therefore iâ— is a part of charity to them as well aâ— justice to the truth to let the world â—e that big words are quite another â—ing from science and a strong preâ—mption from a regular demonstraâ—on As to which no more need to â—ve been said than what you have alâ—ady done if Mr. Serjeant had not â—ought it an accession to the glory of â—s atchievements to lead two Pages â—f my book in triumph after him I â—nfess I was somewhat surprised to see person who would be noted for his â—lour in assaulting Protestant Writers â—eal so behind the main bulk and design â—f my Book and when he had gotten â—o single pages by themselves fall â—pon them with as much pomp and â—tentation as if he had attacqu'd the â—hole And this must be noised abroad an Answer to me by the same figure â—at his arguments are called demonâ—rations which is by an Hyperbole unâ— for any but such who never flag beâ—w the sphere of Science in their own â—dgements though they seem not to â—ome near it in others Yet since â—r Serjeant is not only pleased to â—ncern himself so far as to answer that â—rt of my Book relating to oral tradition but in most express terms tâ— challenge me to reply to him he maâ— now see assoon as I could get any liberty from greater imployments hoâ— ready I am to give him all reasonablâ— satisfaction And in the first place return him thanks for the weapon hâ— hath made choice of viz. that of reâ—son there being no other I desire tâ— make use of in managing this debaâ— between us and I hope he will find much civility towards him throughoâ— this discourse as he exptesses towarâ— me in the entrance to his if that mâ— be accounted any real civility which intended meerly out of design wiâ— the greater advantage to disparage tâ— cause I have undertaken and yet â— no reason to repent of If in his cursâ— view of two chapters of my Book he hâ— as he saith quite lost me he had no caâ— to be troubled for it if he had fouâ— far more excellent persons such Dr. Hammond and the Dissuader aâ— Dr. Pierce instead of me But to sure he intends not this in honour any of us but by way of a commâ— reproach to us all as though we did talk out of nature or things but woâ— and imagination I could heartily have wished Mr. S. would have cropt so much of the victory due to anothers learning and industry as to have shewed me one proposition in those discourses which a rational understanding that would be true to it self could not settle or rely on but if such insinuations as these must pass for answers I must needs say I judge Mr. S. equally happy in confuting our grounds and in demonstrating his own in both which his greatest strength lies in the self-evidence of his bare affirmations But it seems he is willing to resign the glory of this Victory to the judicious author of Labyrinthus Cantuariensis or to some others for him and when they have once obtained it I shall not envy them the honour of it And I suppose those persons whoever they are may be able by this time to tell Mr. S. it is an easier matter to talk of Victories than to get them But if they do no more in the whole than Mr. S. hath done for his share they will triumph nowhere but where they conquer viz. in their own fancies and imaginations Therefore leaving them to their silent conquests and as yet unheard of Victories we come to Mr. S. who so liberally proclaims his own in the point of oral Tradition Which in a phrase scarce heard of in our language before is the Post he tells us he hath taken upon him to explicate further and defend What the explicating a Post means I as little understand as I do the force of his demonstrations but this and many other such uncouth forms of speech up and down in his Book which make his style so smooth and easie are I suppose intended for embellishments of our tongue and as helps to sure-speaking as his whole Book is designed for sure-footing But letting him enjoy the pleasure and felicity of his own expressions I come to consider the matter in debate between us And his first controversie with me is for opposing the infallibility of oral tradition to doctrinal infallibility in Pope and Councils A controversie fitter to be debated among themselves than between him and me for is any thing more notorious than that Infallibility is by the far greatest part of Romanists attributed to the present Church in teaching and delivering matters of faith not by vertue of any oral tradition but the immediate assistance of the Holy Ghost and that this is made by them the only ground of divine faith For which Mr. S. may if he please consult his judicious author of Labyrinthus Cantuariensis or any other of their present Writers except Mr. White and himself He need not therefore have been to seek for the meaning of this doctrinal infallibility as opposed to traditionary if he had not either been ignorant
of the opinion of their own Writers or notoriously dissembled it For this infallibility is not attributed to the Rulers of the Church meerly as Doctors or Scholars but as the representative Church whose office it is to deliver all matters of faith by way of an infallible testimony to every age and thereby to afford a sufficient foundation for divine faith But Mr. S. attributes no such infallibility to the representative Church as teaching the rest but derives their infallibility from such grounds as are common to all parts of the essential Church Wherein he apparently opposes himself to the whole current of their own authors whe resolve all faith into the immediate assistance of the Holy Ghost without which they assert there could be no infallibility at all in tradition or any thing else and therefore these opinions are as opposite to each other as may be For such an infallibility is not attributed by them to the teachers of the Church meerly on some signal occasions as Mr. S. seems to suppose when they are to explain new matters of faith but it is made by them to be as necessary as believing it self because thereby the only sure foundation of faith is laid and therefore it is very evident they make it proper to the Church in all ages Or else in some age of the Church men were destitute of sufficient grounds of faith For they by no means think it a sufficient foundation for faith that one age of the Church could not conspire to deceive another for this they will tell him at most is but a humane faith but that Christ by his promise hath assured the Church that there shall never be wanting in it the infallible assistance of his Holy Spirit whereby they shall infallibly teach deliver all matters of faith And if this be not their opinion let them speak to the contrary which if they do I am sure they must retract their most elaborate discourses about the resolution of faith written by the greatest Artists among them Let Mr. S. then judge who it is that stumbles at the Threshold but of this difference among them more afterwards By this it appears it was not on any mistake that I remained unsatisfied in the Question I asked Whether am I bound to believe what the present Church delivers to be Infallible to which Mr. S. answers I understand him not My reply shall be only that of a great Lawyers in a like case I cannot help that I am sure my words are intelligible enough for I take infallible there as he takes it himself for infallibly true although I deny not the word to be improperly used in reference to things and that for the reason given by him because fallibility and infallibility belong to the knowing power or the persons that have it and not to the object But we are often put to the use of that word in a sense we acknowledge improper meerly in complyance with our Adversaries who otherwise are apt to charge us with having only uncertainties and probabilities for our faith if we do not use the term infallible as applyed to the truth of the thing I am content therefore wherever in what I have writ he meets that term so applyed that he take it only in his own sense for that which is certainly true for I mean no more by it And in this sense Mr. S. answers affirmatively and gives this account of it not only because the present Church cannot be deceived in what the Church of the former Age believed but because the Church in no age could conspire against her knowledge to deceive that age immediately following in matter of fact evident in a manner to the whole world The Question then is whether this be a sufficient account for me to believe that to be certainly true or to be the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles which the present Church delivers and consequently whether the resolution of faith be barely into oral tradition Thus we see the clear state of the Question between us I come therefore to the vindication of those things which I had objected against this way of resolving faith into oral tradition Three things I especially insisted on 1. That it is inconsistent with the pretensions of the present Roman Church 2. That it hath not been the way owned in all ages of the Christian Church 3. That it is repugnant to common sense and experience and that the Church of Rome hath apparently altered from what was the belief of former ages If these three be made good there will be no cause to glory in this last invention to support the sinking fabrick of that Church These three then I undertake to defend against what Mr. Serjeant hath objected against them 1. That it is contrary to the pretensions of the present Roman Church And if it be so there can be no reason for those who are of it to rely upon it For if so be that Church pretends that the obligation to faith arises from a quite different ground from this how can they who believe that Church infallible venture their faith upon any other principle than what is publikly owned by her And whosoever thinks himself bound to believe by virtue of an infallible assistance of the present Church doth thereby shew that his obligation doth not depend upon what was delivered by the former ages of the Church As those who believed the Apostles were infallible in their doctrine could not resolve their faith into the infallibility of oral tradition but into that immediate assistance by which the Apostles spake and where there is a belief of a like assistance the foundation of faith cannot lie in the indefectibility of tradition but in that infallible Spirit which they suppose the Church to be assisted by For supposing this oral tradition should fail and that men might believe that it had actually failed yet if the former supposition were true there was sufficient ground for faith remaining still And what assurance can any one have that the present Church delivers nothing for matter of faith but what hath been derived in every age from Christ and his Apostles if such an infallible spirit be supposed in the present Church which was in the Apostles themselves For on the same reason that those who heard the Apostles were not bound to trouble themselves with the tradition of the former age no more ought they who believe the present Roman Church to have the same infallible assistance They need not then enquire whether this age knew the meaning of the former or whether one age could conspire to deceive another or whether notwithstanding both these errours might not come into the Church it is sufficient for them that the definitions of the present Church are infallible in all matters of faith Therefore my demand was built on very good reason How can you assure me the present Church obliges me to believe nothing but only what and so far as it
the Latins It seems then a deceptiâ— is possible in the case of testifying 〈◊〉 therefore this doth more than perâ—â—â— men to be decievable for here hath been an actual deception on one side or other But we need not fear losing mankind in this for the possibility oâ— errour supposeth mankind to continue still and if we take away that we mâ—â— sooner lose it than by the contrary But what repugnancy can we imagine to humane nature that meâ— supposing doctrines of faith to come down from Christ or his Apostles should yet mistake in judging what those doctrines are Had not men eyes and ears and common sense in Christ and the Apostles times and yet we see eveâ— then the doctrine of Christ was mistaken and is it such a wonder it should be in succeeding ages Did not the Nazarenes mistake in point of circumcision the Corinthians as to the resurrection and yet the mean time agree iâ— this that Christs doctrine was the rule of faith or that they ought to believe nothing but what came from him Diâ— not the disciples themselves err eveâ— while they were with Christ and certainly had eyes and ears an◠〈◊〉 sense as other men have concernâ—â—â—me great articles of Christian faith Christs passion resurrection and the natâ— of his Kingdom If then such who had the greatest opportunities imaginable and the highest apprehensions of Christ might so easily mistake in points of such moment what ground have we to believe that succeeding ages should not be lyable to such misapprehensions And it was not meerly the want of clear divine revelation which was the cause of their mistakes for these things were plain enough to persons not possessed with prejudices but those were so strong as to make them apprehend things quite another way than they ought to do So it was then and so it was in succeeding ages for â—et Parents teach what they pleased for matters of faith yet prejudice and â—yableness to mistake in Children might easily make them misapprehend either the nature or weight of the doctrines delivered to them So that setting aside a certain way of recording the matters of faith in the Books of Scripture and these preserved entire in every age it is an easie matter to conceive how in a short time Christian Religion would have been corrupted as much as ever any was in the world For when we consider how much notwithstanding Scripture the pride passion and interests of men have endeavoured to deface Christian Religion in the world what would not these have done if there had been no such certain rule to judge of it by Mr. S. imaginâ— himself in repub Platonis but it appearâ— he is still in faece Romuli he fancies there never were nor could be any differences among Christians and that all Christians made it their whole business to teach their posterity matters oâ— faith and that they minded nothing in the world but the imprinting thaâ— on their minds that they might have iâ— ready for their Children and that alâ— Parents had equal skill and sidelitâ— in delivering matters of Religion tâ— their posterity Whereas in truth wâ— find in the early ages of the Christiaâ— Church several differences about matters of faith and these differences continued to posterity but all parties stilâ— pleading that their doctrine came froâ— the Apostles it fell out unhappily for Mr. S. that those were commonly most grossly deceived who pretended the most to oral tradition from the Apostles still we find the grand debate was What came from the Apostles and what not whereas had tradition been so infallible a way of conveying how could this ever have come into debate among them What did not they know what their Parents taught them it seems they did not or their Parents were no more agreed than themselves for their differences could never be ended this way Afterwards came in for many ages such a succession of ignorance and barbarism that Christian Religion was little minded either by Parents or Children as it ought to have been instead of that some fopperies and superstitions were hugely in request and the men who fomented these things were cryed up as great Saints and workers of Miracles So that the miracles of S. Francis and S. Dominick were as much if not more carefully conveyed from Parents to Children in that age than those of Christ and his Apostles and on this account posterity must be equally bound to believe them and have their persons in equal veneration If men at last were grown wiser it was because they did not believe Mr. S's principles that they ought to receive what was delivered by their Parents but they began to search and enquire into the writings of former ages and to examine the opinions and practices of the present with those of the primitive Church and by this means there came a restauration of Learning and Religion together But though matters of fact be plain and evident in this case yet M. S. will prove it impossible there should any errours come into the Christian Church and his main argument is this because no age of the Church could conspire against her knowledge to deceive that age immediately following in matter of fact evident in a manner to the whole world But before I come more particularly to shew the weakness of this argument by manifesting how errours might come into the Church without such a conspiracy as this is I shall propound some Queries to him 1. What age of the Church he will instance in wherein all persons who were not cast out of the Church had the same apprehensions concerning all points of faith i. e. that none among them did believe more things delivered by Christ or the Apostles than others did I am sure he can neither instance in the age of the Apostles themselves nor in those immediately succeeding them unless Mr. S. the better to defend his hypothesis will question all written records because they consist of dead letters and unsenc't characters and wordish testimonies Never considering that while he utters this he writes himself unless he imagins there is more of life sense and certainty in his books than in the Scriptures or any other writing whatsoever 2. Where there were different apprehensions in one age of the Church whether there must not be different traditions in the next for as he looks on all Parents as bound to teach their Children so on Children as bound to believe what their Parents teach them On which supposition different traditions in the succeeding age must needs follow different apprehensions in the precedent 3. Whether persons agreeing in the substance of doctrines may not differ in their apprehensions of the necessity of them As for instance all may agree in the article of Christs descent into hell but yet may differ in the explication of it and in the apprehension of the necessity of it in order to salvation So that we must not only in tradition about matters of faith enquire
that because â—e speak not as big as Mr. S. does we â—ust be censured presently to have noâ—hing but probabilities for our faith Are â—hose bare probabilities which leave no â—uspicion of doubt behind them and â—uch we freely assert the grounds of â—ur religion to do i. e. I assert that we have the highest actual certainty of the truth of our Religion which the mind of any reasonable man can desire and if Mr. S's demonstrations can do any more then this let him tell us what it is For my part I know nothing higher in the mind of man then a certain assent and if I did not think there was the greatest ground in Religion for that I abhorr dissimulation so much that I should leave off perswading men to embrace it And if any men have made us shye of the word demonstration and infallibility they are such men as Mr. S. have done it who talk of these things when their arguments fall beneath some of the remotest probabilities we insist on Nay if there be any force in his demonstration as to matters of fact it hath been used by us long before his book saw the light But we love to give the true names to things and not to lose our credit with all intelligent persons by playing Mountebanks in Religion crying 〈◊〉 those things for infallible cures which an ordinary capacity may discern the insufficiency of But was it any thinâ— but justice and reason in me to expeâ—â— and call for a demonstration from them who talk of nothing under it And therefore I said that it was impossible to demonstrate this way of oral tradition unless it were proved impossible for men not to think themselves obliged to believe and do all just as their predecessors did For where the contrary is not only possible but easily supposable â—s that men may believe those things as new articles of faith which are defined by Pope and Council I wonder how Mr. S. will demonstrate that men must â—ook on themselves as obliged to beâ—â—eve just as their predecessors did For I had thought demonstrations had â—ever place in contingent propositions but it seems Mr. S. who tells me Logick will unblunder my thoughts inâ—ends to make a new one for me And â— assure you so he had need before I â—hall ever call his arguments demonâ—trations and although he thinks himâ—elf very honest in calling them so yet â— should think him much wiser if he did not But before I come to the particular debate of these things I freely tell him that I grant all he requests â— shall take along with me the nature of the matter in hand the doctrines anâ— practises spoken of the manner of delivering them the necessary circumstanceâ— which give weight to both yet for alâ— these I cannot look on his way as demonstrative And that both our meanings may be better understood it iâ— very necessary the Reader should havâ— a true account of the state of the Question between us And if he will believe me I never intended to disputâ— with him or any one else whether meâ— were bound to wear their clothes or builâ— houses or manage estates just as theiâ— predecessors did but whether eveâ— age is obliged to believe and practiâ— just as the precedent did by vertue oâ— meer oral tradition for about that iâ— all the controversie between us I dâ— not deny but that a succeeding agâ— may look on it self as bound to believe what the precedent did buâ— whether that obligation doth ariâ— purely from the delivery of that doctrine by the precedent in the way oâ— of tradition is the thing in dispute between us For in case the ground â— faith be wholly the written word conveyed from age to age I deny not but an obligation to believe descends with the doctrine to every succeeding age But that which Mr. S. is to prove is that abstractly from Scripture every age is absolutely bound to believe just as the precedent did without any enquiry whether that doctrine doth agree with Scriptures or no but that he is therefore bound to believe all which is proposed to him because it was the doctrine of the immediately preceding age And this is that which I deny and desire Mr. S. to prove For which he first gives us a large instance in historical matters and then comes to the matters of Christian saith His Instance is in Alexanders conquest of Asia as to which he saith that the memory of it is fresh and lively though some thousand years since And that the universal and strong perswasion of this matter of fact was not caused by Books as Curtius his History but by humane tradition that the continuance of this perswasion was the notoriety of the fact to the then livers which obliged them to relate it to their posterity and that this testifying by the fore-fathers was that which obliged posterity to believe things as true because there could be no imaginable motive why the whole world should conspire to deceive them or be deceivable in their sensations on which principle it passed to the next age and so came down by way of tradition to our dayes and the obligation to believe in every age depended upon this that the senses of the first could not be deceived and having this security in every age that no one would conspire to deceive the next it followes that no age could say a former age testified so unless it did so therefore saith he it follows demonstratively that it was testified and so the descendents in every age to the very end of the world have the same obligation to believe their immediate fore-fathers saying it was testified by theirs and so to the very first who were witnesses of his actions This is the substance of what he more largely discourses in several Paragraphs which when he hath done he tells me he expects what I will reply to this discourse Not to frustrate therefore his expectation and in order to the Readers satisfaction we are to consider that in the present case there are two distinct questions to be resolved 1. How a matter of fact evident to the world comes to be conveyed to posterity 2. By what means a compleat history of all passages relating to it may be conveyed As 〈◊〉 the first I grant that a fact so notoâ—us as Alexanders conquest of Asia might have been preserved by humane tradition and conveyed in a certain way from one age to another But if we enquire into that which is alone proper to our Question viz. by what means we may judge what is true and false as to the particulars of that conquest then I deny that bare tradition is to be relyed on in this case For the certainty of conveyance of all particulars doth depend not upon the bare veracity but the capacity and skill of communicating from one age to another For which one would think we need no clearer evidence then the considerations of the different
being expressions of as great modesty as science I am content Mr. S. should bear away the honour of them and his demoâ—strations together The last thing he quarrels witâ— me for is that I say if we can â—v dently prove that there have been alâ— rations in the Church then it is to â— purpose to prove that impossible which we see actually done And this appears not only because the Scripture supposes a degeneracy in the Christian Church which could never be if every age of the Church did insaâ—libly believe and practise as the precedent up to Christs time did but because we can produce clear evidence that some things are delivered by the present Church which must be brought in by some age since the time of Christ. For which I refer the Reader to what I had said about communion in one kind Invocation of Saints and worship of Images In all which I say I had proved evidently that they were not in use in some ages of the Christian Church and it is as evident that these are delivered by the present Church and therefore this principle must needs be false In answer to this Mr. S. wishes I would tell him first what evidence means whether a strong fancy or a demonstration I mean that which is enough to perswade a wise man who judges according to the clearest reason which I am sure is more then ever his demonstrations will do But it is a pleasant spectacle to see how Mr. S. layes about him at my saying that the Scripture supposes a degeneracy in the Christian Church Incomparably argued saith he why see we not the place does it evidently speak of faith or manners the Universal Church or particular persons but be it in faith be it universal does it suppose this degeneracy already past which is only proper to your purpose or yet to come That is does it say there must be a total Apostacy in faith before the year 1664. Alas he had forgot this Most incomparably answered For if the degeneracy be in 1665. or any years aâ—ter what becomes of M. S's dâ—monstration then that no errors could come into the Church but it seems his demonstration holds but till 1664. and I easily believe an other year will never believe the truth of it But if such a thing as a degeneracy be possible how then stands the infallibility of tradition when there can be no degeneracy without falling from the doctrine and practices of Christ and his Apostles But that such a degeneracy hath already been in that which calls it self the Catholick Church and that both in faith and manners I shall referr Mr. S. to the learned Author of the late Idea of Antichristianism and Synopsis Prophetica where he may find enough to perswade him that his demonstration was far from holding so long as 1664. And now I leave the Reader to judge whether the foregoing evidences against the infallibility of oral tradition or Mr. S's demonstrations have the greater force of reason in them And if he will not stoop so far from the height of his perch as to take notice of what I have elsewhere said I am resolved to let him see I am not at all concerned about it I begin to understand him so well by this Appendix that I can give my self a reasonable account why he thought it not sit to meddle with any other part of my book But if Mr. S. be resolved not to answer any of the testimonies I there produce unless I single them out and print them at the end of this Answer i. e. remove them from that evidence which attends them in the series of the discourse I can only say he is the most imperious answerer I have met with who is resolved never to deal with an adversary but on his own unreasonable terms Thus heartily wishing Mr. S's Science as great as his opinion of it and a good effect of our endeavours to promote the one by removing the other I am Sir Your affectionate friend and servant Edward Stillingfleet London June 28. FINIS Postscript SIR SInce the dispatch of the former Papers I have met with another Treatise wherein I find my self concerned written by the author of Fiat Lux the Title whereof is Diaphanta I am afraid the Title affrights you for I assure you it is the most formidable thing in his whole Book But the man is a very modest man and hugely different from Mr. S's humor for he is so far from offering to demonstrate the grounds of faith that all he pretends to in the title of his book iâ— to excuse Catholick Religion against the opposition of several Adversaries What fault I pray hath the Catholick Religion committed that it must now come to be excused instâ—ad of being defended But when I look into that part which concerns my self I presently understand the meaning of it which is not to excuse Catholick Religion but themselves for not being able to defend it For he very ingenuously tells us that faith is firm and constant though all his talk for it be miserably weak i. e. he is sure they have an excellent Religion though he knows not what to say for it and their faith is a very good faith but it hath not yet had the good fortune to be understood by them For he acknowledges that as often as they dispute they are beyond the business so may any one believe who reads their late books which is in effect to say there is no way left of disputing any longer with adversaries about their faith only they must believe it stoutly themselves but it is to no purpose to offer to defend it Nay it doth their faith a great deal of mischief for saith he in reading controversies we see not so much the nature of the faith as the wit of him who opposes or defends it From whence we may easily gather what unspeakable mischief they do their cause by writing for it By which expressions we may guess at what a low ebbe the defence of their faith is among them for the way now taken to defend it is by disowning the defenders of it and by saying that they only vent their own opinions and though we confute them never so much yet their faith holds good still Was ever a good cause driven to such miserable shifts as these are especially among those who pretend to wit and learning One he saith T. C. vents a private opinion of his own and it is not a pin matter whether it stand or fall another he saith the same of I. S. a third of J. V. C. and yet for all this their religion is very firm and sure and they all at perfect agreement about it Is this the victory over me Mr. S. mentions to be so easie a thing I see that by the same figure Mr. S. calls his way of arguing demonstration running out of the field shall be accounted conquering For I never saw any person do it
more openly then this author does For he plainly confesses that his Catholick Gentleman went quite besides his business that he built upon indefensible principles that his theological ratiocination was indeed pretty but too weak to hold And are not we hugely too blame if we do not cry up such mighty Conquerors as these are Truly Sir I expect the very same answer should be returned to your book that Mr. S's argument is a pretty theological ratiocination and that your answer is not unwitty but though that way will not hold another will Thus when they are beaten off Infallibility they run to Tradition and when they are again beaten off Tradition then back again to Infallibility So that the short of all their answers is though such a one cannot defend our faith yet I can though I cannot yet the faiâ—â—s firm and constant still I wonder what their Superiors think of this â—ay of proceeding among them we â—hould imagine if they be so weak â—s they say themselves they had much â—etter keep them from appearing â—broad and exposing their cause so â—idiculously to contempt But it may â—e they think their faith is the betâ—er as well as their devotion for their â—gnorance and that it would be a â—ighty disparagement to their cause â—or such silly people to be able to deâ—end it It is enough for them to â—dmire it themselves and to say as â—heir common people use to do though â—hey cannot defend it yet there are â—ome that can And although it â—ay be no particular person can do â— yet their cause is able to defend â— self But for all that I can see by â—ck kind of answers the intention of â—hem is to intreat us not to triâ—mph over the weakness of their preâ—nt Writers but to wait till the â—ause it self thinks fit to write And when it doth so they may expect further answer but it were a greaâ— piece of cruelty for us to hasten theâ— ruine who fall so fast before us bâ— each others Pens FINIS ERRATA Page 16. l. 16. for that r. than p. 2â— l. 8. for errors r. concerns Books Printed for and Sold by Henry Mortlock at the Sign of the Phoenix in St. Pauls Church-yard near the little North door A Rational Account of the â—rounds of Protestant Religion being a Vindication of the Lord-Achbishop of Canterburyes Relation of a Conference c. from the pretended Answer by T. C. wherein the true Grounds of Faith are cleared and the false discovered the Church of England justified from the imputation of Schism and the most Important particular Controversies between us and those of the Church of Rome thoughly Examined by Edward Stillingfleeâ— B. D. Origines Sacrae or a Rational Account of the Grounds of Christian Faith as to the Truth and Divine Authority of the Scriptures and the matters therein contained by the sam Author The third Edition Correcteâ— and Amended Irenicum A Weapon-Salve for the Churches Wounds by the same Author Shecinah A Demonstration of the Divine Presence in Places of Religious Worship by J. Stillingfleet Rector of Beckingham in Lincolnshire The Moral Philosophy of the Stoicks Bain upon the Ephesians Knowledge and Practice or a plain Discourse of the chief things necessary to be known believed and practised in order to salvation by Saâ— Cradock B. D. The second Edition Corrected and Enlarged c. The Believers Duty towards the Spirit the Sprits Office towards Believers by H. H. B. D. §. 1. p. 236. p. 202. §. 2. p. 203. P. 204. § 3. §. 4. P. 205. §. 1. 5. §. 6. p. 203. §. 7. §. 8. p. 05. p. 206. P. 207. §. 9. p. 208. §. 10. De fide Thâ—ol tract 2 sect 22. p. 158. Ibid. P. 209. Tabul suffrag p. 318. §. 11. p. 210. §. 12. p. 211. p. 212. p. 213. p. 214. §. 13. p. 216. §. 14. p. 236. p. 217. p. 218. p. 223. §. 15. p. 224. Part. 1. chap. ◠§. 16. â— 229. c. p. 231. p. 234. p. 235. p. 236. P. 237. §. 17. p. 238. p. 239. §. 18. p 240. p. 241. p. 242. p. 243. §. 19. p. 244. p. 210. p. 2â—9