as they that affirmed the Resurrection to be past already or denied that Jesus is the Christ c. are in a State of Condemnation Other Texts of Scripture he brings wherein Christians are charged to be unanimous and condemned for causing Strife and Divisions warn'd to maintain Unity and not to hearken to false Teachers and Seducers c. But I find not by all this that St. Paul or any of the Apostles taught the Church of Rome which both forbids to marry and commands to abstain from Meats allow'd of God which teacheth divers Doctrines whereof we find not any thing in the Scripture to condemn those for Hereticks that adhere wholly to the Doctrine of the Scripture or for Schismaticks who hold Communion with all Christians so far as they keep to the Doctrine of Christ and his Apostles and divide from the Church of Rome no farther than in those Points only wherein they cannot hold her Communion and the Doctrine of Christ too I do not see but after the same rate as he here defends the Charity of his Church he might also defend her Iustice if She should pretend that because Christ commanded his Disciples to fetch him another Man's Ass and her Colt She did but what he taught in taking away other Mens Goods and giving no other reason for it but this that she hath need of them What the Papists say more to shew that we can have no Saving Faith is one of these two things Either first That it is not an entire Faith there being as they say many necessary Articles which we believe not Or Secondly That it is no right-grounded Faith seeing it is not built upon sufficient Authority that is to say on the Authority of the Catholick Church Their first Objection to the Protestant Faith is this That it is no entire Faith. And here I am told by the Representer There is no more hopes for one that denies obstinately any one Point of Catholick Faith tho he believes all the rest than there is for one that keeps Nine of the Commandments with the Breach of the Tenth Now this seems to me no great Encouragement to change the Communion of the Church of England for that of Rome if an entire Faith and an entire Obedience be but equally necessary I wish with all my Heart I could be as sure that the Church of Rome doth not break the first Commandment by her Invocation of Saints and Adoration of the Host and the second Commandment in her Adoration of Images and the Cross as I am sure that the Church of England neither obstinately denies any Article of the Catholick Faith nor countenanceth the Breach of any one of the ten Commandments as that Church seems too much to do whilst she takes no little Care that the People may not know them all We stedfastly believe the whole Scripture so far as we are able to understand it explicitly and when we do not implicitly we receive the three Creeds which have ever been thought to contain the entire Faith of a Christian wherein then is our Faith partial or defective I must consider that anon at present seeing Obstinacy according to our Adversaries is a necessary ingredient of an Heretick I can easily assure my self tho I do not see how 't is possible for me to satisfy them that I am no Heretick for I certainly know that I am very desirous to be throughly inform'd and to be brought to a right understanding of all necessary Truths and am still in a readiness and full preparation of Mind to believe any one or all of their Articles whensoever they shall please to prove the Truth of them either by Scripture or by unquestionable Apostolical Tradition I am sure therefore I deny not obstinately any one Point of Catholick Faith. But till they vouchsafe me the proof I desire I must content my self with the Scripture which is able to make wise unto Salvation through Faith which is in Christ Iesus and not in the Pope of Rome nor in the Roman Church And yet I find that it is for this especially that we are call'd Hereticks that we adhere only to the Scripture and that they often explain their meaning in bestowing that Title on us by calling us Scripturists and Gospellers and ridicule us for talking of only Scripture But when I consider that this is the Fundamental Heresy wherewith we are charged I cannot but a little wonder at it and find less cause than ever to think we can be Hereticks indeed or that they can call us so any otherwise than in jest Can they grant the Scripture to be the Word of God and the Gospel to be the Power of God unto Salvation and yet in earnest call us Hereticks for being Scripturists and Gospellers If submitting our Faith in all things to the Scripture we can be Hereticks then must the Scripture teach Heresy and cannot be the Word of God. What a Contradiction is this in Papists to call us Scripturists and Hereticks which is in effect to say That we adhere only to the Infallible Truth of God and yet are guilty of obstinate Error in the Faith What is it then wherein our Faith is defective It is in this that we do not believe all that the Church of Rome propounds to be believed This indeed would make us Papists but whether it would make us better Christians than we are already is not so certain A Papist saith the Representer is one that lives and believes what is prescribed in the Council of Trent But this Rule of the Papists Faith came into the World as we think too late almost by fifteen hundred Years to be the Rule of the Christian Faith and therefore he could not have represented his Religion to us with greater disadvantage than here he doth We cannot conceive how so small a handful of Prelats most of them Italians sworn Vassals to the Bishop of Rome assembled together at Trent fifteen hundred Years after Christ's preaching and wholly limited and directed in all their proceedings by the Will and Command of Him whose Authority was the principal thing in question and submitting all at last to Him alone should come by that immense Authority to command the Faith of the Christian World or what Commission they could shew from Christ the Supream Lawgiver to prescribe Laws of Faith and Life to all Christendom And we can as little conceive how this pretended Council could at once confirm all the General Councils and among the rest that of Ephesus before mention'd yea and declare the Nicene Creed to be the firm and only Foundation and yet contrary to the Decree of that Ephesine Council and not very consistently to it 's own Declaration decree so many more Points than that Creed contains as necessary to be believed Moreover if this be the great Oracle we must consult as our surest Guide to Heaven where must we meet with him that can give us the certain Sense of its General and Ambiguous
believe but this one Point for when once this great Gobbet is swallow'd down the Passage will be so well open'd that all other Points of Faith either go down with it or will slip after it without the least straining or grutching The Authority of God himself speaking in Scripture will be of no farther consideration to us for that we must suppose to be included in the Authority of our Mother the Church And whatsoever we shall thence-forward perceive to be the Will of our Mother we must without all scruple conclude it to be also the Will of our Father The Representer hath lately told us that tho the Scripture which is the Word of our Heavenly Father may be the Law yet the Mother the Roman Church is the Iudg. Having learn'd from her the sense of the Scripture we are obliged to submit to this and never presume on our own private Sentiments however seemingly grounded on Reason and Scripture to believe or preach any new Doctrine opposite to the Belief of the Church And there 's reason for this if it be true which he elsewhere tells us That a Man may very easily frame as many Creeds as he pleases and make Christ and his Apostles speak what shall be most agreeable to his humour and suit best with his Interest and find plain proofs for all he means in Scripture the truth whereof as of all other Points of Doctrine stands as he saith upon the same Foundation of the Churches Tradition which if it fail in one leaves no security in any This is indeed to advance the Church to the very top-branch of all Authority and to make the holy Scripture as very a Nose of Wax and as Leaden a Rule as any of that Church ever thought it seeing a Man may form and work it into Creeds of all fashions and find plain proofs in it for any odd Humour or carnal and Worldly Interest This then as far as I can learn by him is the only way for me to be a thorow Papist and a good Catholick I must lay aside my Reason and the Scripture and heed no more what either of these tell me only I must have my Ear open to the Voice of the Church and be wholly at her teaching and command and I shall be safe enough Upon the most serious consideration of the Character which the Papist is pleas'd to give us of himself I cannot find what it is for which they of that Church are so severely bent against us Protestants save only that we will not like tame Animals without any understanding of our own learn to come and go at a whistle or trot on the Road as we are driven and stoop to take on our Backs whatever Load it shall please the Roman Church to lay upon us confessing her to have absolute and uncontroulable Authority over our Faith. The standing out against the Catholick Church makes Men Hereticks and without erring against this no Man is guilty of Heresy said the Iesuit Fisher in his Answer to certain Questions propounded to him by King Iames I. This then is the only Heresy to disown the Authority of the Roman for that he calls the Catholick Church Again saith he One fundamental Error of the Protestants is their denying the Primacy of St. Peter and his Successors the Foundation which Christ laid of his Church necessary for the perpetual Government thereof And again He that forsakes the Church puts himself into a dead and damnable State and may have all things besides Salvation and Eternal Life Bellarmine speaks out and tells us very plainly No Man can tho he would be subject to Christ and communicate with the Celestial Church that is not subject to the Pope If then we believe this Authority of the Roman Church we believe all and if we believe not this we believe nothing at all in the Papists account or to any better purpose than to our own Damnation So that without this Belief our Faith shall never pass for an entire Faith and when we once believe this it shall never be any more question'd whether it be entire or no. Now it seems a very hard matter to believe this great Point of Faith till very good Reasons be given us for it and yet it should seem the want of such Reasons will not excuse us from being Hereticks and in a State of Damnation no not tho we be never so ready to believe it when we shall have Reasons given us for it For he is an Heretick we are told who thinks any thing against the Definition of the Church yet stands so affected that he will think the contrary if he be convinced by Arguments or if the matter be propounded to him by a Learned Man. And on the contrary if we do believe this we can hardly be Hereticks whatever Errors we believe or this Belief draws us into For if a Rustick saith Cardinal Tolet believe his Bishop about the Articles of Faith teaching him some Heretical Doctrine he merits by believing altho it be an Error So weighty a Point is this of believing the Authority of the Roman Church and grounding our entire Faith upon it that I perceive I am concern'd above all things to examine it throughly and this I shall have fitter opportunity to do now I am come to the second thing propounded SECT II. Hitherto I have been considering what ground I have to hope for Salvation as I am a Protestant and of the Church of England I am now in the next place to enquire Whether I can find any Reason to believe that the Church of Rome can put me into a more hopeful Way to it should I turn Papist and be of her Communion Now seeing I have already found that the great Reason why we are held uncapable of Salvation as now we are is this That we have no entire Faith and the Defect in our Faith is this That we believe not all the Articles of the Roman Faith and that which makes it necessary for us to believe all those Articles is the Authority of the Catholick that is as they interpret the Roman Church to declare and define what things are necessary to the Salvation of Christians I perceive I have no more to do for my full Satisfaction in the present Inquiry but to consider what Reason I can have for the owning and submitting to this Authority And to discern this I think this Method fittest to be taken I will inquire into three things I. What things are implied in that Submission to this Authority which is required of me II. What the Grounds and Reasons are whereon this Authority is founded and which should perswade me to submit III. Where this Authority may be found and to whom I must submit And this is all I think that I need to do for I can never think fit to submit my Faith and Conscience and to trust my Salvation to an Authority which either requires of me such things as are
Points the very same Especially when the Third of those Councils held at Ephesus in the Time of Pope Celestine did expresly decree That it should not be lawful to utter write or compose any other Faith besides that which had been defined by the Holy Fathers congregated in the Holy Ghost in the City of Nice Ordering that all they should be punish'd who tender'd any other to such as had a desire to be converted to the Knowledg of the Truth whether they were Gentiles Jews or of any other Heresy Whereby 't is plain that the Fathers in this third Council did conclude that Creed to comprehend the entire Faith of a Christian And indeed a Man would think that the Council of Trent had in the Beginning of it been altogether of the same mind when of the same Creed it thus declared it self That it is that Principle wherein all that profess the Faith of Christ do necessarily agree and the Firm and Onely Foundation against which the Gates of Hell shall not prevail I may I think upon these Considerations without more ado be very well satisfied of the Safety of the Protestant Religion The Papists themselves must grant That whatsoever we believe or practise as of necessity to Salvation really is so and therefore that we do not err either in our Faith or Practice whilst we live according to our own Principles For if we err in either so far do they err also and not they only but all the Christian World. And here we may press them with their own way of Arguing and to much more purpose than they are wont to use it against us When they would convince us that their Religion is the safer they are wont thus to argue That Religion is the safer wherein by the Confession of both Sides a Man may be saved but both Sides confess that a Man may be saved in the Popish Religion and both Sides do not confess that a Man may be saved in the Protestant Religion therefore the Popish Religion is the safer Supposing now this way of arguing for the Safety of their Religion from the Confession of both Parties be of any strength as they must suppose it to be who so often and confidently use it then must the like Argument from the same Medium be altogether as strong for us I would only beg of them to grant me this and I hope they will not say my Request is unreasonable That that Religion is the safest all the Doctrines whereof are the truest If they will not grant me this they must grant it safer to hold some false Doctrines than all true But if they think this absurd then must they give me leave thus to argue That Religion is the safest wherein all Doctrines held or taught as necessary to Salvation are by the Confession of both Sides certainly true Now both Sides confess that all Doctrines held or taught in the Protestant Religion are certainly true and both Sides do not confess that all Doctrines held and taught in the Popish Religion are certainly true therefore the Protestant Religion is the safer The same Articles of Faith the same Rules and Precepts of Life the same Acts of religious Worship the same holy Sacraments the same holy Orders of Ministers which we have the very same have they also But they have many things of all these sorts which we have not no nor any other Christians but those of their own Communion And therefore to strengthen my Argument yet more I say If that Doctrine and Practice be the safest wherein all good Christians agree we are sure that ours is the safest because all good Christians do agree in them and that theirs is not safe because all good Christians do not agree in them Nay let me add this more Our Religion is either safe and true in all things pretended by us necessary to Salvation or there is no such thing as a safe and true Christian Religion in the World visibly professed and if so it will follow that Christ hath no true visible Church upon Earth which I am confident no Papist will say The Consequence is plain because all Christians all the World over that make any Figure of a Church hold the same both Faith and Practice with us in what we account necessary to Salvation the Church of Rome it self not excluded Tho it be very certain that we positively and affirmatively hold nothing in Faith or Practice as necessary to Salvation but what is held by the Church of Rome her self and all other Christian Churches yet will not the Men of that Church allow us any possibility of being saved whilst we are Protestants And he who of late hath been at some Pains to represent the Papist to us in his fairest Dress hath labour'd as hard in this Point as in any other to shew that his Church is not uncharitable in the Doctrine She delivers concerning our desperate Estate Now although I am not enquiring whether this Doctrine be charitable or uncharitable but only whether it be true or false yet for my better Satisfaction I will examine all that he saith to this purpose He tells us His Church doth nothing herein but what she hath learn'd of Christ and his Apostles And if he can shew me this I must needs be fully satisfied being verily perswaded they never taught any thing uncharitable or untrue To shew this he tells us how Christ Mark. 16. 16. hath said He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved but he that believeth not shall be damned And this is all his Church delivers in this Point If this be all She delivers we cannot call her uncharitable for it for we our selves willingly subscribe to this Sentence of our Blessed Saviour Only we think he did not here teach and authorise the Church of Rome to say That all who are not of her Faith and Communion shall be damn'd tho she knows they believe all that Christ sent his Apostles to teach them I do not find in the Roman Ritual that the Church of Rome in the Baptising either of Infants or adult Persons uses or requires any other Confession of Faith but that only of the Apostles Creed which is the same we use and if to beleive and be baptised in this Faith be enough for the Salvation of Papists why is it not enough also for Protestants And if the Additional Articles of the Trentine Faith and P. Pius his Creed be necessary to Salvation why is there no mention made of them in the Roman Order of Baptism He adds that of St. Paul 1 Tim. 4. 1 2 3. where foretelling of some who in later times would come and preach a Doctrine forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from Meats which God hath created to be received he brands them with the infamous Title of Men that depart from the Faith giving heed to seducing Spirits and Doctrines of Devils And several other Places of Scripture he then produceth to shew that Hereticks such
Responses The learnedst of the Romish Church are not yet well agreed about it and if the English Representer or French Expounder have had the luck to hit it I am sure that many heretofore who thought themselves as wise as either of them have strangely miss'd it Or else that Council and the Religion call'd Popery hath several Faces for several Times and Countries and in one place and time shall look like it self and in another shall be made to look as like the Protestant Religion as the Artificial Painter dares make it But that which here put us to a stand in this That as the Pope at first taught that Council to speak so hath he reserved the Interpretation of its Decrees to the See Apostolick or himself only and He is not always pleas'd in plain terms to let us know his Mind and if he should for once speak out plainly it will be a little hard for him to assure us that none of his Successors shall hereafter contradict him unless he can satisfy us that he has as well the Gift of Prophesying as that of defining and interpreting However it is for not believing the new Articles of Trent that we are accounted Hereticks and out of the way to Heaven And the reason is because these Articles are supposed to be as firmly grounded on the Word of God as any of those old ones which we believe For the Word of God saith the Council of Trent is partly contain'd in the Books of Scripture and partly in Traditions unwritten these are to be received with the same affection of Piety and Reverence and therefore he that disbelieves any Article grounded upon unwritten Tradition is no less a Heretick than he that disbelieves what is written in the Books of Scripture If I knew how to be satisfied concerning the Authority of this Council I could easily tell what Credit I should give to this which it so confidently affirms But so long as I cannot discern the reason of it's pretended Authority I am a little apt to suspect that it was not the clearness of this Principle that moved it to make so many either unscriptural or antiscriptural Decrees but rather the desire it had of vindicating its unscriptural Doctrines and Practices that made it necessary to espouse such a Principle And indeed when I well consider it I am not a little comforted by it that this equalling unwritten Tradition with Scripture which is the very Basis of the Romish Religion is one of the most incredible things in the World of it self and as destitute of any tolerable Evidence whence it may gain any Credit to it self It must needs seem very strange to any considering Man That the wise God should leave us a Rule in writing on purpose to direct us how to honour Him and attain to Salvation and give it this Commendation that it is able to make wise unto Salvation and yet omit a great many things altogether as necessary to those ends as those that are written and without the Belief and Practice whereof those that are written can no whit avail us and yet never so much as once tell us in all that Writing whither we should go to seek and learn them Nay that he should omit therein the principal Point of all and without which all that is either written or unwritten can signify nothing that is to tell us That the Roman Church is the only true Church the only sure and Infallible Interpreter of all that is written and the only faithful Keeper of all that is unwritten from the Mouth whereof we must receive all saving Truth This I think is a thing that must needs be very hard for any one to believe that believes the Infinite Wisdom Goodness and Veracity of God. And how it can ever be made evident that there are such necessary unwritten Traditions or that these which the Church of Rome holds are they I think no Man living can imagine I am sure if the Papists way of reasoning be good it 's safer not to believe this For all Sides consent that the Scripture which we have is the certain Word of God but all Sides are not agreed that unwritten Traditions are the Word of God therefore it is safer to believe the Scripture only to be the Word of God and not Traditions We hold us to Scripture and the Papists grant that to be the safest Rule their greatest strength lies in unwritten or as they are wont to speak Oral and Practical Traditions which in plain English is no more but Report and Custom and whether there can reasonably be thought any certainty in these equal to that of the written Word of God given by Divine Inspiration can be no hard matter for a very weak Understanding to determine That which makes these unwritten Traditions of the less Credit with me is the assurance I have that a pretence to them and a vain confidence in them hath produced much Error and Division in the Church 'T is well known how far and how long the Errors of the Millenaries and of administring the Eucharist to Infants to mention no more prevail'd on this account And the early Schisms betwixt the Roman and Asian Churches about the keeping of Easter and the hot Contests between the Roman and African Churches about rebaptizing Hereticks were occasion'd and upheld by Pretences on all hands to Tradition This was the only Refuge of old for Hereticks when they were confounded by the Scripture to take shelter under Tradition whence Tertullian call'd them Lucifugas Scripturarum Men who shunn'd the Light of the Scriptures Again saith he They confess indeed that the Apostles were ignorant of nothing and differed not among themselves in their preaching but they will not have it that they revealed all things to all for some things they deliver'd openly to all some things secretly and to a few and that because St. Paul useth this saying to Timothy O Timothy keep that which is committed to thy trust And again that good thing which is committed to thee keep Irenaeus also makes mention of Hereticks who affirm'd That out of the Scriptures the Truth could not be found out by them who understood not Tradition because it was not deliver'd by Writing but by living Voice for which cause also St. Paul said we speak Wisdom among them that are perfect St. Augustine in his 97th Tract upon Iohn saith that all the most foolish Hereticks who desire to be accounted Christians used to colour their audacious Fictions with a pretence from that Sentence of the Gospel Joh. 16. 10. I have many things to say unto you but you cannot bear them now Thus did the Hereticks of old both plead Tradition and sought to strengthen their Plea by such places of Scripture as these which are the very same that the Papists produce to the same purpose as may be seen in Bellarmine and others But I find that the Orthodox Fathers of the Church were of another Mind The
things which we find not in the Scriptures saith St. Ambrose how can we use them Ambr. Offic. l. 1. c. 23. Let those of Hermogenes his Shop saith Tertullian shew that it is written If it be not written let them fear that Woe design'd for those that add or take away Irenaeus saith that what the Apostles had preach'd the same afterwards by the Will of God they deliver'd unto us in the Scriptures to be the foundation and pillar of our Faith. St. Hierome against Helvidius calls the Holy Scriptures the only Fountain of Truth Let us bring saith St. Austin for trial not the deceitful Ballances where we may hang on what we will and how we will at our own pleasure saying this is heavy and this is light but let us bring the Divine Ballance of the Holy Scriptures and in that let us weigh what is heavier nay let us not weigh but let us own the things already weighed by the Lord. And elsewhere The Holy Scripture saith he fixeth the Rule of our Doctrine And indeed the excellent sayings of the Antients to this purpose are so well known that I should be very vain to cite any more here If now after all this I should suppose what I can by no means yet grant that God having order'd the Scriptures to be written and said so much in the Commendation thereof they do not yet contain all things necessary to Salvation but that some part of those necessary things as both some Hereticks of old and Papists now would have it believed was only whisper'd privately into the Ears of the Apostles as Mysteries unfit at that time to be communicated to vulgar Christians and that the Apostles tho they were commanded by Christ to preach upon the House-tops that which he had told them privately in the Ear Mar. 10. 27. did not yet think themselves obliged to obey this Command in writing all that was necessary but rather to conceal for a time a considerable part of that mysterious Doctrine Yea suppose that this was one principal use of St. Peter's Keys to lock up all these Mysteries in the Cabinet of the Churches Breast let the Church signify what it can to be communicated to the World in after-Ages by piece-meal so as she should find Men prepar'd by a blind credulity to receive them Yet after all I must needs think that we are too hardly dealt with to be called Hereticks for not believing these things till something be produced whereby we may be assur'd either that these things which they commend to us come indeed from Christ his Apostles or that we are obliged to take the Church of Rome's word for a good Assurance It seems to me a very unreasonable thing that we should be condemn'd as obstinate for not believing things never sufficiently proved whilst we know and declare our selves prepared in Mind to yield upon the first rational Conviction Why should not that Church have the charity to forbear her Censures till she have tried the strength of her Arguments Why was the Council of Trent contrary to the Custom of other Councils so liberal of her Curses and so sparing of her Reasons One good Reason would do more to make us of her Communion than a thousand Anathema's Would not a Man suspect that they have no good Reasons to shew who keep them so close The plain Truth is there have been such vain Pretences to Tradition in all Ages one contradicting another that it seems impossible in this Age to discern between true and false Did not Clemens Alexandrinus call it an Apostolical Tradition that Christ preach'd but one Year And did not Irenaeus pretend a Tradition descending from St. Iohn that Christ was about fifty Years old when he was crucified And do the Papists accout either of these to be true Many things might be named which for some time have been received as Apostolical Traditions which the Church of Rome will not now own to be so And those which she owns she can no more prove to be so than those she hath rejected It were easy to shew this even from abundance of their own Writers who assert the Perfection of the Scripture and complain of the Mischief this pretence to Tradition hath done and who confess they cannot be proved to come from the Apostles But I shall now content my self with the ingenuous Confession of the Bishops assembled at Bononia in their Counsel given to P. Iulius the 3 d. We plainly confess say they among our selves that we cannot prove that which we hold and teach concerning Traditions but we have some conjectures only And again In truth whosoever shall diligently consider the Scripture and then all the things that are usually done in our Churches will find there is great difference betwixt them and that this Doctrine of ours is very unlike and in many things quite repugnant to it What said Erasmus long since on the 2 d Psalm They call the People off saith he from the Scriptures unto little humane Traditions which they have honestly invented for their own Profit And Peter Suter a bitter Adversary of his hath these words Since many things are delivered to be observed which are not expresly found in Holy Scripture will not unlearned Persons taking notice of these things easily murmur complaining that so great Burdens should be laid upon them whereby the Liberty of the Gospel is so greatly impaired Will they not also easily be drawn away from the observance of Ecclesiastical Ordinances when they shall find that they are not contained in the Law of Christ And must we be Hereticks for not believing these so uncertain Traditions Must our Faith be accounted defective and not entire meerly because we do not believe what no Man can make us understand to co come from God This seems very hard It is now time for me to consider the second Objection made against our Faith which is That it is not rightly grounded it is not built on the Authority of the Church that is the Church of Rome And indeed so much weight I find laid upon this one Point that I have some reason to think that they who have been very forward at all times to give such liberal allowances of implicit Faith to their Friends at home would be contented with a very small measure of explicit Belief in us if we would once be taught to ground our Faith aright on the sole Authority of that Church It seems to me that for the talk about it they are no such rigid Exactors of an entire explicit Faith in order to Salvation but that if we will explicitly believe this one fundamental Point the Supreme Authority of the Roman Church over all Christians they will deal very favourably with us in most others and excuse our Ignorance easilier than they can perswade us to be content to be ignorant I think I have very good reason to believe this because I know they can have no reason to reject them that
than the Scripture till he Interprets for us is hard to say So that all returns to this still That we have her honest Word for her Authority and this is the sole Foundation that I can discover of this prodigious Faith which we must all have or else perish eternally III. And now in the last place seeing it is come to this for ought I see that I must rest upon her own Word or nothing for the Truth of her Sovereign Authority and must upon peril of my own Damnation take upon me this invidious Profession to believe all men damn'd but PAPISTS that I may enjoy the Blessing of my Mother I should be glad to know that She her-self as Infallible as she is could but probably assure me where this Word of her's may certainly be found The REPRESENTER indeed in his confident way hath told me That all the Members of his Religion however spread through the World agree like one man in every Article of their Faith. And if we would know for our learning by what happy means this wonderful Agreement is effected he tells us It is by an equal Submission to the Determinations of their Church that is as I understand it by taking her bare Word for every thing No one of them saith he tho the most learned and wise ever following any other Rule in their Faith besides this of unanimously believing as the Church of God or ROMAN Church believes And if this be so I wonder to what purpose their Learning and Wisdom can serve them any more than their Iudgment and Wit which they have renounced and deposed However if this be true Representing I shall not I hope find it difficult to find out the Church's Word and Authority on which my Faith must stand Every Member of it tho he have no more than the old Collier's Faith can help me to it in any part of the World for all agree like one Man in every Article and therefore sure in this most fundamental one But what now shall I think after this if it should so fall out that hardly one in a hundred of these Members know either where this Church of theirs is to be found or what those Determinations of hers are unto which they so unanimously submit Nay what if their Church it self cannot tell them this When She hath said all She can to inform both them and us suppose it be still two to one that we shall be mistaken in it whatever we take to be the ROMAN Church or her infallible Word This is it that I am now for a Close to inquire into It must needs seem more than a little absurd and exceeding hard to tye a man under pain of Damnation to believe he knows not what and what no body can certainly shew him I mean a Power in the Church of ROME which all men deny but they of her Communion and about which even they who are of her Communion are so divided among themselves that I do not see how ever they can agree about it Is there no Dispute in that Church about this Power Have they not been even at Daggers drawing among themselves about it Is the Controversie yet decided Or can any one promise me that it ever shall There is a great Diversity among the Schoolmen saith our REPRESENTER in their Divinity-Points and Opinions of such matters as are no Articles of Faith and have no relation to it but as some Circumstance or Manner which being never defined by the Church may be maintain'd severally either this way or that way without any breach of Faith or injury to their Religion I will not stay here to ask him what greater diversity he can find amongst the Members of our Church than he here grants to be amongst PAPISTS nor why our Divisions being no greater than theirs nor more nearly related to any Article of Faith should be less consistent with the Unity of the Church as is commonly objected against us than theirs are But I ask whether the Supreme Authority of the ROMAN Church be an Article of the ROMAN Faith or no And again whether all the Members of that Church be as one man unanimously agreed about it or no He will say it may be about the Article they are as to the Substance of it tho not as to all Circumstances But now if it appear that these Circumstances of the Power about which they differ are such as the thing it self will be as good as nothing without them or if they be not as certainly known and believ'd as the Power it self I think it will follow that all their agreement about the Thing is as good as nothing too till these Circumstances be also agreed upon Thus it is then I must for my Salvation believe that there is such a thing as a Supreme Power over all Churches in the Church of ROME and in this all PAPISTS as one man unanimously agree but about the Circumstances of this Power there is a great diversity of Opinions among them yet is this no injury to their Religion Tho without a better agreement about these Circumstances no man in my opinion can be able to satisfie me what their Religion is for these Circumstances about which they differ are no more but such inconsiderable things as these Whence this Power is whether it be of God or of Men of Divine or Human Right only whether it extends over all the World or over all Christians only to Spiritual concerns only or to Temporals also where it resides and is lodg'd in the Church-Diffusive or all Christians especially the Pastors or in the Church-Representative or General Councils or in the Church Virtual or the POPE of ROME These petty Circumstances they differ about and the Church it self knows not how to agree them but what 's all this to the Article it self most firmly believ'd by all that is a Supreme Power in the Church All their Religion rests on the Determinations of their Church all the force of these Determinations to oblige the Faith of men depend on this Supreme Power May not a man however well enough be assured of his Religion tho no man can tell him Whence this Power is Over what it is or Where it is Indeed what other men can do I know not but for my own part I must needs think it a very hard matter to believe this Power and to have any certainty of the Religion founded on this Power without some better Information about these Circumstances of it and therefore before I can yield to be of that Religion I must beseech that Church which will not allow us to be saved without an absolute Submission and Resignation of our selves to her Authority to tell us if not Whence which is yet the most material Circumstance of all the rest yet at least What and Where it is There is challeng'd by this Church a Power of over-ruling our Faith by her Infallible Iudgment and a Power of commanding our Obedience by