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subject_n to_o error_n and_o it_o may_v be_v more_o strong_o confirm_v by_o the_o testimony_n of_o tertullian_n 16._o aliunde_fw-la suadere_fw-la possunt_fw-la de_fw-la rebus_fw-la fidei_fw-la nisi_fw-la ex_fw-la literis_fw-la fidei_fw-la can_v they_o otherwise_o persuade_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n than_o out_o of_o the_o writ_n of_o faith_n and_o saint_n augustine_n &c_n solis_fw-la canonicis_fw-la debeo_fw-la absolutum_fw-la sine_fw-la ulla_fw-la recusatione_fw-la consensum_fw-la i_o owe_v absolute_a consent_n without_o any_o refusal_n only_o to_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n the_o effect_n can_v exceed_v the_o cause_n nor_o the_o conclusion_n both_o the_o premise_n and_o therefore_o we_o can_v build_v a_o divine_a and_o infallible_a conclusion_n such_o be_v all_o conclusion_n de_fw-fr fide_fw-la upon_o mere_a humane_a testimony_n which_o be_v not_o of_o infallible_a truth_n all_o other_o humane_a history_n come_v short_a of_o the_o apocryphal_a book_n of_o scripture_n for_o you_o 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knife_n and_o not_o with_o a_o sword_n or_o dagger_n i_o will_v use_v what_o weapous_a i_o list_v take_v you_o what_o buckler_n you_o can_v master_n fisher._n a_o proof_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la be_v more_o demonstrative_a than_o à _fw-la priori_fw-la here_o master_n fisher_n show_v his_o academical_a learning_n in_o prefer_v a_o demonstration_n à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la by_o before_o that_o which_o proceed_v à _fw-la priori_fw-la be_v not_o a_o demonstration_n of_o the_o effect_n from_o the_o cause_n better_a than_o of_o the_o cause_n by_o the_o effect_n in_o this_o place_n or_o upon_o the_o like_a occasion_n again_o offer_v near_o the_o end_n of_o the_o disputation_n master_n sweet_a reply_v m._n sweet_a this_o be_v to_o divert_v the_o question_n the_o question_n be_v not_o now_o whether_o our_o faith_n or_o you_o be_v the_o catholic_a primitive_a faith_n but_o the_o question_n now_o be_v of_o the_o effect_n to_o wit_n the_o visibilitie_n of_o your_o church_n which_o you_o ought_v 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captive_a simple_a woman_n load_v with_o iniquity_n and_o by_o our_o eue-tempting_a adam_n to_o eat_v the_o forbid_a fruit_n be_v this_o to_o 9_o convince_v the_o gainsayer_n i_o fear_v and_o tremble_v when_o i_o read_v the_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n 13_o a_o hireling_n see_v the_o wolf_n leave_v the_o sheep_n and_o flee_v and_o the_o wolf_n catch_v they_o and_o scatter_v the_o sheep_n i_o speak_v not_o of_o public_a disputation_n within_o a_o state_n settle_a and_o resolve_v many_o year_n in_o point_n of_o religion_n as_o we_o have_v be_v and_o be_v god_n be_v thank_v but_o of_o private_a occasional_a conference_n for_o the_o satisfaction_n especial_o of_o person_n of_o quality_n which_o as_o disputationibus_fw-la laurentius_n true_o collect_v without_o great_a offence_n to_o god_n and_o scandal_n to_o his_o truth_n can_v sometime_o be_v anoid_v the_o adversary_n grow_v confident_a upon_o such_o seem_a diffidence_n and_o refusal_n and_o clamorous_a upon_o our_o silence_n aristotle_n be_v wont_a to_o say_v apoph_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d it_o be_v a_o shame_n for_o i_o to_o hold_v my_o peace_n when_o zenocrates_n take_v upon_o he_o to_o teach_v may_v not_o we_o of_o the_o ministry_n that_o be_v christ_n maeniall_a servant_n reflect_v in_o like_a manner_n on_o ourselves_o and_o say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d it_o be_v a_o shame_n for_o i_o to_o be_v silent_a when_o priest_n and_o jesuit_n be_v so_o clamorous_a it_o be_v a_o shame_n for_o the_o minister_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v backward_o to_o defend_v when_o the_o agent_n of_o antichrist_n be_v forward_o to_o oppugn_v our_o most_o holy_a faith_n nay_o when_o the_o supporter_n of_o heresy_n and_o idolatry_n have_v take_v so_o much_o brass_n from_o the_o image_n which_o they_o worship_v to_o arm_v their_o own_o forehead_n with_o that_o they_o dare_v challenge_v and_o brave_a truth_n and_o religion_n to_o her_o face_n yea_o but_o say_v they_o in_o the_o word_n of_o tertullian_n 17._o quid_fw-la promovebis_fw-la disputator_fw-la &_o c._n what_o shall_v we_o gain_v by_o confront_v these_o man_n they_o will_v not_o yield_v nor_o cease_v to_o blaspheme_v the_o way_n of_o truth_n though_o they_o be_v never_o so_o plain_o confute_v non_fw-la persuadebis_fw-la nec_fw-la si_fw-la persuaseris_fw-la yet_o the_o truth_n be_v honour_v in_o that_o she_o have_v advocate_n to_o plead_v her_o cause_n and_o these_o plead_n erunt_fw-la testimonio_fw-la contra_fw-la eos_fw-la shall_v be_v a_o evidence_n against_o her_o opposite_n at_o the_o bar_n of_o christ._n the_o gubernator_fw-la pilot_n do_v not_o always_o bring_v the_o ship_n safe_a to_o the_o haven_n nor_o the_o chirurgeon_n cure_v the_o wound_n nor_o the_o physician_n recover_v his_o patient_n nor_o the_o preacher_n gain_v his_o auditory_a yet_o if_o he_o do_v his_o part_n he_o lose_v not_o his_o reward_n with_o god_n nor_o approbation_n with_o man_n to_o labour_v for_o fruit_n be_v we_o the_o fruit_n of_o our_o labour_n be_v god_n who_o will_v render_v to_o every_o man_n 13_o according_a to_o his_o work_n not_o according_a to_o the_o success_n thereof_o and_o therefore_o although_o the_o issue_n of_o conference_n shall_v prove_v no_o better_o sometime_o than_o of_o synod_n in_o the_o day_n of_o gregory_n nazianzen_n yet_o will_v not_o this_o excuse_n our_o neglect_n of_o so_o necessary_a a_o duty_n for_o god_n can_v gain_v by_o our_o loss_n and_o he_o attain_v his_o end_n even_o in_o our_o fail_n at_o least_o 20_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o make_v the_o enemy_n of_o the_o truth_n unexcusable_a and_o what_o if_o we_o do_v not_o win_v they_o yet_o we_o confirm_v both_o our_o self_n and_o other_o that_o love_v the_o truth_n in_o the_o truth_n and_o in_o this_o respect_n conference_n if_o they_o be_v advise_o undertake_v and_o discreet_o manage_v according_a to_o their_o latin_a etymology_n always_o confer_v and_o conduce_v to_o some_o good_a end_n to_o speak_v nothing_o of_o the_o conference_n at_o hampton-court_n or_o d._n rainolds_n conference_n with_o hart_n the_o fruit_n whereof_o we_o gather_v even_o at_o this_o day_n whosoever_o read_v the_o life_n of_o saint_n austen_n pen_v by_o possidonius_fw-la and_o caluin_n by_o beza_n shall_v find_v that_o as_o the_o pelagian_n and_o manichee_n of_o old_a so_o the_o libertine_n and_o anabaptist_n of_o late_a receive_v their_o smart_a blow_n by_o disputation_n do_v not_o cyril_n confound_v nestorius_n athanasius_n arius_n saint_n austen_n fortunatus_n by_o disputation_n by_o what_o do_v luther_n gain_v more_o than_o by_o disputation_n be_v not_o felix_n vit_fw-fr saint_n austin_n purchase_n if_o i_o may_v so_o speak_v cent._n be_v not_o berillus_n saint_n origens_n fabius_n dionysius_n his_o convert_v by_o disputation_n what_o better_a issue_n of_o a_o conference_n can_v be_v desire_v than_o be_v that_o of_o caecilius_n with_o octavius_n relate_v by_o octaâ—_n minutius_n felix_n which_o end_v thus_o we_o be_v both_o say_v he_o winner_n in_o this_o game_n you_o have_v win_v i_o and_o i_o have_v win_v the_o truth_n tu_fw-la victor_n mei_fw-la &_o ego_fw-la triumphator_fw-la erroris_fw-la we_o be_v both_o conqueror_n you_o have_v conquer_v i_o and_o i_o triumph_v over_o my_o own_o error_n of_o write_v many_o book_n especial_o of_o controversy_n there_o be_v no_o end_n in_o which_o we_o have_v a_o argument_n without_o a_o answer_n and_o a_o answer_n without_o a_o reply_n but_o in_o a_o conference_n orderly_o carry_v the_o force_n of_o every_o argument_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o every_o answer_n be_v bring_v to_o the_o test_n and_o truth_n and_o error_n by_o grapple_v together_o try_v their_o utmost_a strength_n as_o by_o smite_v the_o flint_n with_o the_o steel_n we_o strike_v out_o fire_n so_o by_o the_o conflict_n and_o collision_n of_o contrary_a argument_n the_o clear_a light_n of_o truth_n break_v out_o thes._n ut_fw-la aurum_fw-la è_fw-la terrae_fw-la venis_fw-la effossumab_fw-la admistis_fw-la
prince_n &_o castilian_n courtier_n namely_o sir_n thomas_n moores_n utopia_n extra_fw-la anni_fw-la solisque_fw-la vias_fw-la to_o undertake_v to_o make_v a_o demonstration_n consist_v ex_fw-la veris_fw-la primis_fw-la immediatis_fw-la prioribus_fw-la notioribus_fw-la causis_fw-la conclusionis_fw-la be_v all_o one_o say_v ludovicus_n vives_z as_o if_o to_o cure_v a_o most_o dangerous_a disease_n a_o quacksalver_n shall_v promise_v a_o strange_a receipt_n make_v of_o four_o simple_n the_o first_o whereof_o be_v find_v in_o india_n the_o second_o among_o the_o ceres_n the_o three_o in_o the_o riphean_a hill_n and_o the_o four_o in_o the_o nest_n of_o a_o phoenix_n if_o that_o demonstration_n which_o they_o call_v potissima_fw-la the_o sovereign_a demonstration_n and_o non_fw-fr parâ—iell_n contain_v the_o quintessence_n of_o all_o necessary_a proof_n consist_v of_o all_o term_n reciprocal_a and_o all_o proposition_n enable_v and_o qualify_v with_o those_o three_o degree_n of_o necessity_n so_o call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d &_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d de_fw-fr omni_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la et_fw-la quatenus_fw-la ipsum_fw-la be_v any_o where_o in_o use_n it_o shall_v seem_v to_o be_v in_o the_o mathematics_n the_o most_o certain_a science_n and_o full_a of_o evident_a demonstration_n but_o pererius_n the_o jesuite_n and_o other_o with_o he_o undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o mathematician_n use_v no_o such_o demonstration_n and_o therefore_o many_o logician_n and_o philosopher_n conclude_v that_o such_o absolute_a demonstration_n exalt_v to_o the_o high_a degree_n of_o necessity_n present_o convince_a and_o captivate_a the_o understanding_n be_v mere_a imaginary_a speculation_n let_v the_o philosopher_n and_o logician_n among_o themselves_o end_v this_o controversy_n i_o will_v pronounce_v sentence_n peremptory_o on_o neither_o side_n but_o set_v aside_o that_o idea_n of_o demonstration_n and_o speak_v of_o such_o demonstration_n à _fw-fr priori_fw-la or_o à _fw-la causâ_fw-la as_o be_v usual_o find_v in_o scholastic_a divinity_n i_o will_v maintain_v this_o syllogism_n to_o be_v a_o good_a demonstration_n as_o demonstration_n go_v current_a against_o all_o m._n fisher_n and_o m._n sweet_n logic_n the_o church_n hold_v the_o perpetual_a faith_n ground_v on_o the_o eternal_a gospel_n have_v perpetual_a visible_a professor_n of_o that_o faith_n the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n hold_v the_o perpetual_a faith_n ground_v on_o the_o eternal_a gospel_n therefore_o the_o true_a church_n have_v perpetual_a visible_a professor_n of_o that_o faith_n etc._n etc._n for_o the_o mayor_n or_o first_o proposition_n it_o be_v partly_o ground_v upon_o christ_n promise_n rehearse_v before_o in_o the_o set_n down_o of_o the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n touch_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n assertion_n the_o four_o and_o partly_o upon_o that_o text_n of_o the_o 10._o apostle_n with_o the_o hart_n man_n believe_v unto_o righteousness_n and_o with_o the_o tongue_n confession_n be_v make_v unto_o salvation_n the_o minor_a or_o assumption_n be_v most_o necessary_o true_a because_o this_o eternal_a faith_n be_v the_o formal_a cause_n constitute_v and_o make_v the_o true_a church_n for_o disputat_fw-la as_o laurentius_n right_o argue_v homines_fw-la non_fw-la constituunt_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la quatâ—nus_fw-la simpliciter_fw-la sunt_fw-la homines_fw-la europei_n romani_fw-la etc._n etc._n sedquatenus_fw-la sunt_fw-la fideles_fw-la ergo_fw-la fides_fw-la &_o doctrina_fw-la fidei_fw-la est_fw-la causa_fw-la formalis_fw-la &_o interna_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la et_fw-la per_fw-la eam_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la constituitur_fw-la et_fw-la per_fw-la eandem_fw-la dignoscitur_fw-la man_n make_v not_o the_o church_n simple_o as_o they_o be_v european_n or_o roman_n or_o african_n or_o britan_n or_o the_o like_a but_o as_o they_o be_v of_o the_o faithful_a or_o hold_v the_o faith_n therefore_o faith_n and_o the_o doctrine_n thereof_o be_v the_o formal_a and_o internal_a cause_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o it_o the_o church_n be_v make_v a_o church_n and_o distinguish_v from_o all_o other_o society_n here_o than_o you_o have_v the_o confession_n of_o visible_a man_n to_o salvation_n or_o the_o visibility_n of_o professor_n of_o the_o save_a faith_n a_o proper_a attribute_n or_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d demonstrate_v of_o the_o proper_a subject_n the_o true_a church_n by_o the_o proper_a and_o near_a cause_n the_o eternity_n of_o faith_n and_o what_o more_o be_v to_o be_v require_v in_o a_o true_a demonstration_n à _fw-la priori_fw-la you_o will_v say_v this_o demonstrate_v that_o the_o true_a church_n shall_v be_v always_o visible_a but_o not_o that_o the_o protestant_a church_n i_o reply_v either_o the_o protestant_n church_n be_v to_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n or_o not_o if_o it_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n then_o have_v demonstrate_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o true_a church_n i_o have_v consequent_o demonstrate_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n if_o this_o be_v not_o to_o be_v suppose_v nor_o grant_v than_o you_o shall_v have_v primary_o deny_v this_o and_o put_v we_o to_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o which_o be_v prove_v will_v infer_v the_o visibility_n but_o this_o you_o do_v not_o and_o i_o think_v dare_v not_o in_o the_o conference_n for_o fear_v you_o shall_v have_v be_v present_o convince_v yet_o now_o since_o the_o conference_n you_o be_v grow_v so_o hardy_a as_o to_o deny_v it_o and_o therefore_o thus_o i_o prove_v it_o a_o church_n hold_v &_o profess_v entire_o the_o perpetual_a faith_n needful_a to_o salvation_n be_v a_o true_a church_n the_o protestant_a church_n hold_v and_o profess_v entire_o the_o perpetual_a faith_n etc._n etc._n therefore_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v a_o true_a chur._n the_o mayor_n be_v confess_v of_o all_o side_n and_o must_v be_v so_o because_o there_o be_v no_o salvation_n without_o the_o church_n where_o therefore_o the_o save_a faith_n be_v hold_v and_o profess_v there_o must_v needs_o be_v the_o church_n the_o minor_a or_o second_o proposition_n be_v thus_o confirm_v the_o primitive_a catholic_a faith_n 6._o once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n be_v the_o perpetual_a faith_n ground_v on_o the_o everlasting_a gospel_n but_o the_o faith_n which_o the_o protestant_a church_n hold_v be_v the_o primitive_a catholic_n faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n therefore_o the_o faith_n which_o the_o protestant_a church_n hold_v be_v the_o perpetual_a faith_n etc._n etc._n the_o mayor_n in_o this_o last_o syllogism_n be_v of_o undoubted_a truth_n the_o assumption_n be_v thus_o confirm_v the_o faith_n derive_v from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n contain_v in_o the_o three_o creed_n the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o nicen_n creed_n and_o the_o creed_n of_o athanasius_n and_o the_o four_o first_o general_a counsel_n be_v the_o primitive_a and_o catholic_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n the_o protestant_n faith_n be_v derive_v from_o the_o scripture_n and_o contain_v in_o the_o three_o creed_n and_o four_o counsel_n abovenamed_n therefore_o the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v the_o primitive_a catholic_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n in_o this_o last_o syllogism_n the_o mayor_n can_v be_v deny_v by_o any_o who_o receyve_v these_o creed_n and_o counsel_n the_o minor_a may_v be_v confirm_v three_o manner_n of_o way_n first_o by_o the_o public_a profession_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o other_o protestant_a church_n second_o by_o deduction_n of_o each_o particular_a head_n of_o the_o protestant_a faith_n out_o of_o the_o principle_n abovenamed_n three_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o romish_a church_n itself_o and_o first_o it_o be_v well_o know_v to_o all_o who_o be_v conversant_a in_o the_o harmony_n of_o protestant_a confession_n or_o have_v observe_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n that_o the_o protestant_a doctrine_n be_v that_o no_o article_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o be_v believe_v under_o pain_n of_o eternal_a damnation_n which_o be_v not_o either_o express_o contain_v in_o scripture_n or_o may_v be_v necessary_o and_o evident_o deduce_v from_o they_o all_o the_o protestant_a church_n read_v or_o sing_v the_o creed_n abovenamed_n and_o for_o the_o four_o first_o general_a counsel_n there_o be_v no_o protestant_n who_o will_v not_o seal_v the_o true_a faith_n deliver_v in_o they_o with_o his_o blood_n if_o he_o be_v call_v thereunto_o second_o there_o be_v no_o particular_a positive_a article_n of_o the_o protestant_a faith_n which_o we_o will_v not_o undertake_v to_o prove_v by_o scripture_n let_v master_n sweet_a or_o master_n fisher_n instance_n where_o and_o when_o they_o will_v we_o will_v never_o refuse_v to_o meet_v they_o in_o this_o field_n on_o the_o contrary_a beside_o those_o fifteen_o point_n set_v down_o in_o the_o conference_n there_o be_v many_o other_o tenet_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o no_o papist_n dare_n undertake_v to_o prove_v by_o scripture_n &_o therefore_o according_a to_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o ancient_a heretic_n 2._o cum_fw-la
some_o outward_a profession_n by_o which_o it_o be_v make_v visible_a or_o sensible_a do_v not_o sufficient_o make_v a_o man_n to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v a_o true_a rule_n in_o philosophy_n vehemens_fw-la sensibile_fw-la corrumpit_fw-la sensum_fw-la the_o bright_a light_n of_o a_o demonstration_n so_o buzzard_v you_o that_o you_o see_v not_o where_o you_o be_v nor_o know_v what_o you_o be_v about_o i_o be_o so_o far_o from_o affirm_v that_o inward_a faith_n without_o outward_a profession_n make_v a_o visible_a member_n of_o christ_n church_n that_o from_o inward_a faith_n i_o infer_v necessary_o ex_fw-la consequenti_fw-la outward_a profession_n which_o as_o i_o say_v in_o the_o conference_n make_v a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n do_v you_o grant_v the_o consequence_n or_o deny_v it_o if_o you_o grant_v it_o my_o argument_n proceed_v if_o you_o deny_v it_o confirmabit_fw-la pro_fw-la i_o vester_fw-ge aristoteles_n your_o great_a clerk_n 13._o cardinal_n bellarmine_n make_v good_a the_o consequence_n in_o this_o manner_n qui_fw-la non_fw-la confitentur_fw-la fidem_fw-la sed_fw-la eâ_fw-la in_o cord_n retentâ_fw-la exteriùs_fw-la profitentur_fw-la perfidiam_fw-la et_fw-la idololatriam_fw-la non_fw-la sunt_fw-la boni_fw-la nec_fw-la saluantur_fw-la cum_fw-la ad_fw-la roman_n 10._o dicat_fw-la apostolus_fw-la cord_n creditur_fw-la ad_fw-la iustitiam_fw-la ore_fw-la autem_fw-la fit_a confessio_fw-la ad_fw-la salutem_fw-la et_fw-la mat._n 10._o omnis_fw-la qui_fw-la negaverit_fw-la i_o coram_fw-la hominibus_fw-la etc._n etc._n they_o be_v not_o good_a man_n nor_o shall_v be_v save_v who_o do_v not_o confess_v the_o faith_n but_o keep_v it_o in_o their_o heart_n outward_o profess_v perfidiousness_n and_o idolatry_n for_o the_o apostle_n rom._n 10._o say_v with_o the_o heart_n man_n believe_v to_o righteousness_n but_o with_o the_o tongue_n man_n confess_v to_o salvation_n and_o matthew_n 10._o whosoever_o deny_v i_o before_o man_n he_o will_v i_o deny_v before_o my_o father_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n let_v master_n fisher_n therefore_o look_v back_o upon_o my_o argument_n and_o demonstrate_v to_o i_o though_o à _fw-la posteriori_fw-la what_o academical_a learning_n teach_v he_o to_o deny_v it_o to_o be_v a_o demonstration_n à _fw-la priori_fw-la the_o protestant_a relation_n paragraph_n the_o nine_o touch_v a_o testimony_n allege_v by_o master_n fisher_n out_o of_o doctor_n field_n doctor_z feat_o that_o church_n who_o faith_n etc._n etc._n but_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v the_o primitive_a catholic_n faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n ergo._fw-la m._n fisher._n i_o answer_v the_o minor_n if_o this_o proposition_n be_v take_v simple_o in_o itself_o i_o absolute_o deny_v it_o but_o if_o this_o proposition_n be_v consider_v as_o it_o must_v be_v as_o relate_v to_o the_o first_o question_n and_o the_o end_n thereof_o i_o further_o add_v that_o it_o be_v not_o pertinent_a to_o that_o end_n for_o which_o the_o whole_a dispute_n be_v intend_v to_o weet_v to_o show_v to_o those_o who_o be_v not_o able_a by_o their_o own_o ability_n to_o find_v out_o the_o infallible_a faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n without_o learn_v it_o of_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o consequent_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n be_v first_o to_o be_v show_v before_o the_o truth_n of_o doctrine_n in_o particular_a shall_v be_v show_v d._n feat_o first_o what_o speak_v you_o of_o those_o who_o be_v not_o able_a by_o their_o own_o ability_n to_o find_v out_o faith_n be_v any_o man_n able_a by_o his_o own_o ability_n without_o the_o help_n of_o divine_a grace_n second_o what_o help_v the_o visibility_n to_o confirm_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o church_n visibility_n indeed_o prove_v a_o church_n but_o not_o the_o true_a church_n here_o m._n fisher_n allege_v some_o word_n out_o of_o d._n field_n of_o the_o church_n suppose_v thereby_o to_o justify_v his_o former_a answer_n whereunto_o d._n feat_o promise_v answer_n shall_v be_v make_v when_o it_o come_v to_o their_o turn_n to_o answer_v now_o he_o be_v by_o order_n to_o oppose_v m._n fisher._n master_n fisher_n his_o answer_n these_o word_n either_o be_v not_o speak_v or_o m._n fisher_n do_v not_o regard_v they_o be_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o his_o answer_n in_o which_o he_o go_v on_o show_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n by_o a_o say_n of_o d._n fields_n viz._n see_v the_o controversy_n of_o religion_n at_o this_o day_n be_v so_o many_o in_o number_n and_o so_o intricate_a in_o nature_n that_o few_o have_v time_n and_o leisure_n few_o strength_n of_o wit_n and_o understanding_n to_o examine_v they_o what_o remain_v for_o man_n desirous_a of_o satisfaction_n in_o thing_n of_o such_o consequence_n but_o diligent_o to_o seek_v out_o which_o among_o all_o the_o society_n of_o man_n in_o the_o world_n be_v that_o spouse_n of_o christ_n the_o church_n of_o the_o live_a god_n which_o be_v the_o pillar_n of_o the_o truth_n that_o so_o they_o may_v embrace_v her_o communion_n follow_v her_o direction_n and_o rest_n in_o her_o judgement_n m._n fisher_n therefore_o i_o say_v be_v busy_o speak_v this_o do_v not_o regard_v what_o d._n feat_o do_v then_o say_v but_o may_v easy_o have_v answer_v first_o that_o he_o never_o mean_v that_o any_o be_v able_a of_o themselves_o without_o help_n of_o god_n grace_n to_o attain_v the_o true_a faith_n which_o hinder_v not_o but_o that_o some_o may_v have_v that_o ability_n of_o wit_n and_o learning_n by_o which_o they_o can_v better_o examine_v controversy_n of_o faith_n than_o those_o that_o want_v these_o ability_n second_o although_o visibility_n alone_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o true_a church_n yet_o it_o suppose_v god_n promise_n that_o the_o true_a church_n shall_v be_v always_o visible_a much_o help_v and_o want_v of_o visibility_n in_o any_o one_o age_n prove_v a_o company_n not_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n doctor_n featly_n reply_n this_o parcel_n of_o your_o answer_n contain_v in_o it_o a_o allegation_n out_o of_o d._n field_n and_o a_o alleviation_n or_o mitigation_n of_o a_o speech_n of_o you_o savour_v of_o pelagianisme_n to_o your_o allegation_n out_o of_o d._n field_n i_o answer_v mitte_fw-la quod_fw-la scio_fw-la die_fw-la quod_fw-la rogo_fw-la d._n field_n speech_n i_o acknowledge_v which_o be_v very_o pertinent_a to_o his_o end_n but_o nothing_o to_o you_o that_o it_o be_v requisite_a for_o all_o christian_n especial_o the_o weak_a to_o fly_v to_o the_o church_n and_o hide_v themselves_o under_o her_o wing_n to_o preserve_v they_o from_o the_o danger_n of_o romish_a kite_n as_o d._n field_n prudent_o observe_v so_o no_o protestant_n to_o my_o knowledge_n deny_v our_o novice_n and_o catechumeni_fw-la be_v teach_v as_o to_o honour_n god_n their_o father_n so_o also_o the_o church_n their_o mother_n now_o because_o the_o whore_n of_o babylon_n bear_v herself_o as_o if_o she_o be_v 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