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A43114 The Quaker converted to Christianity re-established, upon the same, sure, safe, and only foundation, Jesus Christ crucified, and his righteousness imputed for justification : having yet no mind to change the sweet and easie Yoke of Christ's Gospel, for the Old Covenant-Yoke of Quakerism, which he found so burdensome and intolerable, or, A full reply to a book entituled, Rebellion rebuked written by John Crook and William Baily, both in the ministry among the Quakers / written by William Haworth ... ; with an account from William Dimsdale ... Haworth, William.; Dimsdale, William. 1674 (1674) Wing H1196; ESTC R513 168,839 185

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shall find wrath in his Conscience if his judgment be not intoxicated with error as thine is I perceive this by what tho● sayest here that thou hast but tasted very scantly of the wrath of God in thy Conscience otherwise thou wouldest not have such slighting thoughts of it as to apprehend it to be atoned any other way than by Christ's bearing it who sweat drops of Blood under it and thy unacquaintedness with the Nature of Faith in that thou callest it an easie way Ah John what meanest thou to turn the scoffer like Julian do the Saints find it an easie way who are crying out daily Lord help or unbelief but it is such an easie way that you poor Creatures have not hit of it nay you will fully despise and scorn it I doubt Ah J. C. here thou stumblest at the Cross of Christ and art leavened in thy mind with Hellish Socinianism the dirt will out at length John here thou art plainly ashamed of the Cross of Christ dares not own that the wrath of God was upon Christ Oh Repent John of the thoughts of thy heart and let that Scripture convince thee Gal. 3. He was made a Curse for us c. whatever thou dost pretend afterwards in thy Lines concerning Christ's sufferings the enlightned Reader will know by this that it 's but to blind the People In the last place thou sayest in the same Paragraph by a bare Belief of it wholly without that which thou calledst before an Imagining here thou callest Belief and 〈◊〉 Belief what wouldest thou John have more than Faith here thou discoverest thy self to be a Papist Oh what a bundle of Rotten●●●● is Quakerism thou wouldest have Works to justifie us Faith only if not sufficient against which error the Protestants thou knowest have ●●●●●nded Rom. 4. He that worketh not but Believeth there is Faith only 〈◊〉 Belief John what sayest thou to that though that Faith that is justifying will work by Love yet it receives no efficacie from its being accompanied with Works as to our Justification but from the Object without how sad is it that every Truth must be struck at by a 〈◊〉 sort of Papists J. C. Here we differ in our account I say according to Dan. 9.24 ●king of Christ pag. 16 to finish Transgression and to make an end 〈◊〉 sin and to make Reconciliation for Iniquity and to bring in everlasting Righteousness c. I know and believe Salvation by the imputed 〈◊〉 and real everlasting Righteousness of Jesus Christ brought 〈◊〉 Answ Enough if thou wast but real in thy expressions let us turn 〈◊〉 on every side it is likely the cheat may be found out if thou art 〈◊〉 what then means thy arguing against my asserting Imputation and taking up most of my Arguments for it pretending to Answer them what a Knave is he that will pretend kindness to my dear Friend whom I love and profess friendship to him and in the mean-while go about to wound him and stab him to the heart if thou art real in this for Imputed Righteousness when I charged Penn for calling it a Doctrine of Devils why didst thou instead of bearing thy Testimonie against him call upon me to Answer his Arguments for 〈◊〉 if thou be for it why dost thou not Preach it and thy Brethren 〈◊〉 are contradicting it in all your Meetings there is no end of thy dissembling it is a professed Trade thou drives as the Mountebancks up and down the Country But proceed we what may we understand by this word Imputed which he acknowledgeth Why one of your Gang can tell us James Naylor Love to the Lost pag. 7. and with him his Righteousness is freely imputed or put into the Creature so now we have his sence Imputed Righteousness is Righteousness put into the Creature 1. That spotless Manhood of Christ 2. His active Obedience all the holy Actions of his Life 3. All the Sufferings of Christ for herein we say by the Righteousness of Christ All these are put into every Quaker and so in this sence not imputing Trespasses is God's not putting them into us I cannot omit another Testimonie from another Doctor of them Smith Cat. pag. 64. and 12. We believe that Christ in us doth offer 〈◊〉 himself a Living Sacrifice to God for us by which the Wrath and Justice of God is appeased towards us Salvation then by Imputed Righteousness you must understand Christ offering up of himself in us in the Quakers sence and so appeasing Gods Wrath. The other word Reckoned is not thus that what Christ as a Surety hath paid down for me in his Obedience is accounted as if I had paid it as we say and that truly but according to the other it must be as mony in a Man 's own purse there told and reckoned which he hath to pay to God at any time when he demands not needing any to pay it for him Real thou 〈◊〉 as if there was no reality in the Act of God reckoning and imputing Righteousness but by this and by the other thou understandest in opposition to the Faith of God's Elect which thou callest Imagination 〈◊〉 it is something more and better than what is received by Faith that is not to thee a Real Righteousness The other word is brought nigh well then it is too far off thee if thou have it no other way than by Faith I had thought that Faith had been the substance of things hoped for that by Faith Christ dwelt in our hearts and that there had been a reality in God's Acts of imputing that what God Reckoned to Abraham had been very Real for he was really saved Thou mistrusted God John But the sum of all is this viz. The Light within Obedience to that is this imputed reckoned real Righteousness of Christ For the Light is Christ Remember Fox the younger's Testimony before he speaks of the Light what it would do if obeyed I will forgive all their Iniquities c. and hear the Old Fox Bark Christ being within there is justification Mystery pag. 49. J. C. pag. ibid. Which in the fulness of Time was manifest in and 〈◊〉 him and in due time was really made mine by the Work and Application 〈…〉 Spirit in my inward parts Answ This is true plainly understood as spoken But if a Man be caught stealing and cheating once or twice he is greatly suspected when ever he is dealt with We have thee tardy John frequently and now no trusting of thee Thou only steals the good and wholsom words that have been used by us that thou mayest make thy putrid errors go off the better Thou hast learned to dress that Strumpet Quakerism up in a more modest sober attire than thy Brethren that so she may be taken for a chast Matron Now let me explain what we understand by this viz. That Righteousness that was manifest in Christ and by Christ in the fulness of Time it was that which I have already distanced in viz. 1.
judgest the Deportment and Carriage of all the Godly in the Nation to be Light Vain Confident and Lofty because they are not found in those mimied punctilio's of denying the Hat in Salutation and giving the Hand which the Quakers use if this Turkish mode which you have taken up of late in not stirring the Turbant be the thing and that affected demureness I am then Guilty my Light being not for it Be not angry John if Christ having made me free and restoring Comfort to my Spirit more of late the● formerly the Spirit of Adoption enlarging my Soul I express it in my Carriage in a more chearful Gravity walking as one that doth Believe in Christ whom be hath delivered from Mount Sinai to Mount Zion We are not Children of Hagar the Bondwoman but of Sarah not Ishmaels but Isaac's whose name is laughter I am to manifest my rejoycing in Christ and that I have received not the Spirit of Fear and Bondage but of power Love and a sound mind And this is for the honour of my Lord and his Doctrine Thou dost but bewray in this the same Spirit of the Pharisees who were angry with Christ that be kept Company with Publicans and Sinners and because he came eating and drinking they called him a ●lutton and Wine-Bibber I place not my Christian Religion John in denying the Civil salute of the Hat or any Courteous behaviour towards my Neighbour whereby I expr●ss my Love and Friendship as you do making if essential to your way and a signal Character of your Proselytes as appears by thy Brother Baylies Answer But I have well nigh done rejoycing that the little Book we writ hath ext●rted from thee some good words of Confession which how thou understandest them shall be scanned afterwards and how thou agrees with thy Brethren thou shalt see wh●n things are compared It 's well if the Body at Devonshire-House and your Metropolitan George Fox approve of this Confession Though thou art infallible John yet thy infallibility must vail and strike Sail to the infallibilty of the Body If thou Believest as thou speakest in some things why didst thou rent from Christians if thou wouldest return John it would be better with thee than it is now If thou understandest some Truths as thou writest them and all of you assent never were people Guilty of such uncharitableness as you in your Railings against all other sorts of separation and division in keeping your Meetings distinct not in the least owning our Worship as appears by your irreverent Behaviours when you come into our Meetings But I am greatly jealous of thee and not without ground having conversed with you so long and knowing how frequently you are found in Jesuitical equivocations and mental reservations that thou hast but covered Poison in guilded words and wrapt thy self in a Cloud False Prophets must come in Sheeps Cloathing else no deceiving It was a Golden Cup that Antichrists Poison was in I pray God I may find it otherwise Thy Brother Penn is plain and honest down-right in his assertions against Christ and the Scriptures and satisfaction by the Death of Christ c. In the close let me say that I am thoroughly satisfyed that I am defending the noblest Cause under Heaven and call God Men and Angels to Witness That if I were convinced you were in the Truth I would not for a Million of Worlds in the least oppose you Lately at Hartford Bigg and Martin confessed that our Principles were directly contrary Let it then be tried who is in the Truth by the Holy Scriptures and the Lord be Judg betwixt you and us in this Matter I can heartily say appealing to him that searcheth the hearts and tryeth the Reins that as you are my Country-Men you are dear to me and I could wish my self deprived for some time of the Love of the Saints which is highly valued by me and no pains or travel of Body or Soul Night or Day should seem great to me to reduce any of you from that dreadful ●postacy which you are fallen into through the cunning Craftiness of some Deceivers There is a Woe upon you I am satisfied because that Offences have been given by some Carnal Gospellers and Libertines in our day that have turned God's blessed Grace into wantonness and have not walked worthy of this Glorious Doctrine I have heard some of your way that lately have acknowledged this viz no reason in Doctrine but in Practice for your departure Now blessed are those that are not offended in Christ A 〈◊〉 to them that stumble 〈◊〉 this stumbling stone I my self through weakness have been ●ear to this but his Grace hath kept me and the Truth is dear to me still and Jesus Christ though many that professeth the Faith adorn it not in their Conversation And now you are multiplied me see you are a people of the like infirmities and passions therefore may you that are tender 〈◊〉 in again to the Truth by the same Reasonings But oh how strong is interest and faction when once ingaged Well my Prayer to the Lord hath been and yet is that those among you that have not sinned unto death by a wilful opposing in hatred and emnity the Glorious person of the Mediator may be brought back that whoever of you belongs to the Election of Grace may be undeceived as this young Man was My labour in this kind in other places hath not been in vain and I will not cease but hold on Believing firmly that I do service to Jesus Christ therein And I am the hold●r 〈◊〉 this work in that I can say the Lord knows I have been an hundred times hurried into your way and Opinions like a Child tossed to and fro with every Wind of Doctrine but I am brought now into a consistency and fixedness through electing Love influencing of me and have my senses exercised 〈◊〉 discerne of things and Persons and in Christ's strength fear not the Gates of Hell Oh that this contention and Tryal of Truth might by the effectual working of the Holy Ghost upon thy mind beget some thoughts of returning to thy first Husband the God-Man Christ Thou art the Dearer to us John in that thou hast been a Stone once in Christ's Buildings and Oh that the calls of God's people to thee from thy Apostacy might be blessed to thee that thou mayst Blaspheme no more All knowledge that Men are apt to be puffed up withal and soaring into is but Air Wind and Fancy but the knowledge of Christ Take heed of that Spirit in the false Apostles that disdained Pauls Doctrine as low and Carnal so hath Henry Nicholas Swenkfeldius and Beheman and surely you do and your People speak it Believing that you come forth with a new Prophecy as some of old pretended they were sent to Preach the everlasting Gospel in opposition to the old Gospel In the Revelation some are spoke of that talked of the depths which John adds Satan to This
sum and substance of the Gospel as coming of the Seed of David according to the Flesh was declared to be the Son of God with Power by the Resurrection from the dead So it is the Power of God his power exerted in Christ's Resurrection whereby we have Justification He rose again for our justification Again the power of God was greatly exerted in working Miracles while they preached the Gospel Heb. 2.4 God bearing them witness with Signs and Wonders with divers Miracles and gifts of the Holy Ghost While you pretend to a New Gospel you should have brought the Power of God to Seal it in Miracles When he calls it the Power of God it may be you understand it as Winkfield did that God's Essential Power is Communicated which cannot be for then would the Creature to whom it 's Communicated be omnipotent And if thou would'st plainly speak out dost thou not think that the Light that every Man hath is part of the essential Power of God which is able to save every one that doth obey it Now Paul speaks not a word of the Light that is in every one here he speaks of his readiness to Preach the Gospel to them at Rome v. 15. which Gospel what it was he had declared before v. 3 4. viz. a Doctrine concerning Christ's being Incarnate and his Resurrection now he saith he is not ashamed of this Doctrine but thou and thy Brethren are for you Preach it now now the reason why he was not ashamed of it is because it is the Power of God c. i. e. The Spirit who is God made use of this Doctrine that many despised to the Salvation of many The Spirit conveyed it self into the hearts of the hearers by this Doctrine and wrought Faith in them to receive it Therefore that Scripture 1 Cor. 1.18 doth explain the Preaching of the Cross i. e. Christ Crucified at Jerusalem without any Allegory not a word here of G. F's Doctrine of a Light that every Man hath to be turned to which thou hast been deluded by is to them that perish foolishness I pray God it be not so to you but unto us which are saved it is the power of God Now Paul Rom. 1.17 proceeds to tell us how this Doctrine not the Law nor the Light nor any other Doctrine is that which the Spirit makes use of to convert change and save because thereby the righteousness of God is revealed from Faith to Faith In the Doctrine of the Gospel is revealed a Righteousness that every way answers the holy Law of God which is the Righteousness that God approves of If I will be beloved of God reconciled have life I must have a Righteousness compleat to bring to God now no Doctrine declares this but the Gospel that declares the Remission of sins by the sacrifice of Christ and that by the Obedience of this one we are made righteous his Obedience without us Now he faith it is revealed from Faith to Faith therefore Faith is not that Righteousness but receiveth it being revealed I have writ the more upon this Scripture because it is greatly made use of by you And some will see hereby that it is not for you at all but against you Let me add this to what thou sayest that being led away by sin is a departure from or denial of the power To whomsoever God gives Faith in this Righteousness he sanctifieth inwardly and whoever hath this Faith he hath it in a pure Conscience and who-ever makes shipwrack of a good Conscience as to morals it 's a Token to us that he hath made shipwrack of Faith likewise if he continue so without Repentance This departing denying of the Power begins in unbelief an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God Heb 3.11 The last Scripture thou bringest in is 2 Pet. 3.17 where the Apostle exhorts the beloved that knew the truth to beware left they also should be led away by the error of the wicked Now John what error is there scarce mentioned in the Scripture which thou and thy people are not guilty of In the late Scripture thou namest thou didst plainly read thy self in Hymeneus Now again what errour of the wicked in this vers 3. There shall come in the last days scoffers vers 4. saying Where is the promise of his coming for since the Fathers c. This was the error viz. They did not believe the second coming of Christ Now in the face of how many thousands have the Quakers denyed this speak of his coming again they answer he is come they witness his coming Tell them of that Scripture in remembrance of him till he come why Christ is come therefore the Lords Supper is antedated as to them Thus they are for an Allegorical coming the second time i. e. to the Spirit in giving heed to the Light and so it is without sin unto Salvation according to you Take heed lest your Salvation prove only Allegorical not real I have several times heard it can name one not long since of the Quakers of Hartford that hath spoke it That we that look for the second coming of Christ are but gazers and our eyes shall sink or rot in their holes before we see that day intimating it shall never be John the Scripture is against thee thou hadst better quote a piece of Jacob Be●eman J. C. pag. 6. The young man was fully of the Quakers way Spirit Faith and Principle Thy mistake also in this is very gross as may appear by the Answer to the young mans Book in this particular Answer I confess I said that the young man was fully of the Quakers way c. But it seems I am mistaken and that grosly as will appear by thy Brother Baylies Answers which I have looked over and find that the reason that he gives why this young man was no Quaker was because he did put off his Hat and was not satisfied in silent meetings So that I must it seems retract because I did not understand that these two things did essentially constitute a Quaker viz. Silence and Vnmannerliness so that even a Dumb Turk is a Quaker When wilt thou be ashamed of these things John J. C. pag. 6. Thou Say'st the young man was an honest Quaker 〈◊〉 to his perswasion as Luther said of himself before his Conversion c. 〈◊〉 which it 's thus replyed then what are they converted from or to that are 〈◊〉 true to their perswasion Examine thy self and thy people whether you is all things are true to your perswasion if nay then you are come so far a the honest Quaker by thy own confession Answer I said the young man was an honest Quaker c. because there be some Knavish Quakers John thou knowest as in Luthers time many pretended mortification under a Monks Cowle and at the same time were unclean sensualists So some of you it 's known pretend to exact honesty in trade and under pretence cheat
and defraud and so enrich your selves But I am confident this young man was honest and so true to his perswasion for honesty without the Faith of the Gospel is their perswasion and Religion Now thou reflectest upon us by way of Query then what they are converted from or to c I answer we are converted from darkness that imbred natural darkness that we are in and all men unto Light which Light is Christ's person and the Gospel which declares of him and so to all things that Christ in the Gospel requires of us which is not only Morality but attending upon his Institutions as the Lord's Supper As often as ye do it c and through Grace we are true to this perswasion that the Holy Ghost hath wrought in us You will give us leave to walk by our own Light not yours and to profess still that we are not perfect nor think we shall ever attain it in this Life Yet do we think that as the Carnal Jew went beyond the Unbelieving Gentile so if we were as you think us to be but carnal gospellers yet in that we are come further than the Quakers that go about to make the people only moral Heathens J. C. Thou sayst the little time he hath had for proficiency in the Knowledg of the Gospel might discourage thee from making his Book Publick To which thou replyest I wonder at it seeing thou sayst before that it is not possible for any to receive it truly and forsake it which if he hath not done thou speakest unadvisedly with thy lips in saying that it is an experience which the Lord in rich mercy gave him whom thou also callest dear and elect Child and sayest flesh and blood hath not revealed this to him but our Father which is in Heaven but how can he that thus contradicteth himself agree with the truth in others Answer So according to thy Reasoning and Logick It is not possible for any to have been but a little time in the Gospel and yet truly to receive it as to be out of danger to forsake it Is this is a Contradiction every one that receives the Gospel truly must have received it many years but if any turn Quaker as Mede Pen and Ruddier you will say they are in the truth the first day As to the others Cannot the Lord in rich mercy give an experience and yet there may have been but little proficiency in the Knowledg of the Gospel that one may have the true teachings of the Spirit and yet not fit to Write and Print Is it not plain to all but Cavillers that I speak it thus viz. That he having penned these in his own Words and Phrases who was but newly come into the Faith and so might have but a dim sight into some truths and not know how to express himself so fitly as others that had spent more years in the Faith why didst thou not add that which goes before viz. the meanness of the persons Education thou shouldest have taken them together But it seems any of your Proselytes though never so childish are fit presently to adventure out in the press and in the ministery who so hold as blind c. J. C. pag. 6. Oh that every one of you my dear Brethren and every one i● Hatford had the Knowledg of Christ thus distinctly formed in you till which thing be the soul of him to whom Christ hath committed you as his charge shall travel in birth and be in pain blessing God that his poor labours 〈◊〉 not altogether been in vain as to this matter what is that travel and labour worth that brings not to a distinct Knowledg of Christ and what a Church is that and what a pastor is he and how can they be dear brethren in truth in whom the distinct Knowledg of Christ is not yet formed Answer Either thou hast forgotten that this Phrase which I make use of was ever used by Paul Gal. 4.19 My little Children of whom I travel in birth again till Christ be formed in you or else thou dost plainly gibe at Paul the Apostle and the Church of the Galatians at least through our sides thou woundest them Paul writes to the Galatians owns them as the Churches of Christ Chap. 1.2 saith that they had received the Spirit Chap. 3.2 Yet in tha● they were hearkening to false teachers and were wavering and halting and tossed he speaks this And I understand it as to the distinct Knowledg of Christ and so I speak of it they had some knowledg of Christ but it was too confused and dim otherwise they would not have been enticed they were but little Children in this vers 19. he called them so yet Children Now John is this language becoming thee viz. Paul what is thy labour and travel worth when-as thou hast not brought the Galatians to have Christ formed in them and Paul what a Church is this Church that thou writes to in Galatia and what a Pastor Preacher and Apostle art thou and what dear Brethren are they to thee and what a Spirit is that they have received in whom Christ is not yet formed well said John thou art now got a degree above the Apostles in that thou canst thus call them to an account and yet this may well be the tendency of thy lines spoken to us when-as your Doctrine and Paul's are so opposite much a kin to the Doctrine of the false Apostles that questioned Paul's authority and looked upon his ministery but carnal and thou hast in this declared the same Spirit Paul saith in another place Thess 1.3 there is much lacking in your Faith and to the Corinthians are ye not Carnal Now what an Apostle what a Pastor art thou Paul and what a Church is the Church of the Corinthians that are carnal what Saints are they and what faithful ones in Christ are they And John how hast thou forgot thy self in this cavil had the Disciples the distinct Knowledg of Christ when-as they knew not the import of his death nor that he should rise again We thought said they that it had been he that would have restored Israel Luk. 24. whereupon he calls them fools vers 25. They did not distinctly know why Christ died nor the Scriptures that prophesied of it they did not distinctly know of his Resurrection for they would not believe it when reported they thought of a carnal Kingdom which the Messias was come to set up Yet these Christ calls Friends Disciples Brethren Go tell my Brethren Mat. 28.10 and in another place I go to my God and your God my Father and your Father Now John see how it will become thee to say what Brethren are those what Friends are those that had no more Knowledg not a distinct knowledg of Christs death and resurrection that were so ignorant and what a Pastor was Jesus that had such followers that had not the distinct knowledg of Christ formed in them but this is enough to make thee
saved and in Joh. 14. he saith I am the way no man cometh but by me Heb. 10.13 It is said We enter into the Holy of Holiest by the blood c. And that new and Living Way which is ●secrated for us through the Vail that is to say his Flesh now whether is more likely that this Principle of Morality or Christ's person should be the Gate of entrance into Glory It is called straight not that it is so in it self but our natural darkness unbelief makes it so and it is usually accompanied with hot Persecutions now John who is the false Prophet that makes the way Broader thou or I in that thou makest Morality without Christ to be the Gate Now are there not more Moral Men than Christians nay is it not possible for Men in their Conversations to do as they would have Men to do to them and yet be Enemies to Jesus Christ was it not thus with the Pharisees Was not Paul blameless touching the Moral Law yet at that time a Persecutor The young Man that said to Christ all these things have I done and what doth Morality signifie without Faith in Christ the Way but whoever of us said that Faith in Christ was at any time without honesty Thus thou art unhappy in all thy attempts J. C. Pag. ibid. Thy Reasonings are as ridiculous as thy Positions 〈◊〉 is because it is called your Faith and your Righteousness and your Love c. By the same Reason Christ himself must be our own Righteousness for he shall be called the Lord our Righteousness Jer. 23.6 Answ Then must Christ be our own Faith and our own Love and whatever thou findest this Pronoun yours joyned to or ours that must be our own Righteousness All things are yours Ergo all things are our own Righteousness Christ I grant is our Righteousness but not by Inhesion it is by way of Imputation to which we are speaking and his personal Righteousness cannot properly be said to be our own Righteousness by Inhesion That word properly I did put in before thou mayest see By no means can it be said to inhere in us of which I am speaking that Scripture Isa 54.17 Par. ibid. Your Righteousness is of me speaks directly for me in this cause though the Righteousness was wrought of God yet he calls it theirs by Imputation it is not here meant of the Righteousness of Sanctification thou bringest that passage Par. ibid. He that dwells in Love dwells in God The right conclusion should be according to this Reasoning Ergo God is that Love that inheres in us towards him so then there is no difference between the Affection and the Object and if it were so then it would be so as thou speakest that they that did dwell in God did dwell in their own Righteousness Par. ibid. That shedding abroad Love in the heart is God's giving an assurance and sence by the Spirit of an Interest in this Righteousness of Christ without Thou cryest out of thick darkness in the close but thou seest I have not lost my way in the darkness as thou imaginest in that I leave not the Lord Jesus Christ to follow John with the wisp to lead me into pits to the endangering of my Soul J. C. Parag. ibid. Another Reason thou givest is because our Souls at the Subjects of this Righteousness 't is really in our minds therefore 〈◊〉 Answ Now thou hast done me right joyned these together which before thou madest two distinct things and heads J. C. What wouldest thou have to be the Subjects of true Righteousness Answ Christ Jesus himself I would have to be the Subject of that Righteousness that justifies for he not we was without spot he not we kept the Law perfectly in his Actions he not we suffered on the Cross And I would have our Persons Souls and Bodies be the Subjects of the Righteousness whereby we are Sanctified but the latter is the fruit of the former Therefore go on J. C. Par. ibid. Is it not our souls that are saved Answ I pray God they may be saved by Jesus Christ from the wrath to come J. C. But it followes do not they and we by them reap the benefit of Salvation Answ Surely it had been better expressed we with them or our Bodies with our Souls Again we reap not the Benefit of Salvation by our Souls but by Christ Now I am jealous of these expressions because Fox hath made the Soul to be God and John it is likely thou art in the same mind Par. ibid. And is not that the Subject of Righteousness which is saved by it Answ Thou shouldest have said the Subject of Salvation which is saved But to come closer the Righteousness whereby our Souls are saved is not the Righteousness that is within of Sanctification but the Righteousness whereby we are justified i. e. The meritorious cause of Salvation is not any thing in Man but it is the obedience of Christ Ephes 2. We are saved by Grace not of Works not of such works as God works in us see v. 10. J. C. Parag. ibid. And by the same Reason the Grace of God must be our own Righteousness because our Souls are saved by it and the Subjects of it Answ In Rom. 5. There is Grace and the Gift by Grace which is as there spoken by one Man Jesus Christ Now the Grace of God in the first place is taken for the free Love and favour of God and it 's false to say we are the Subjects of this the Subject is God himself and this is the Grace spoken of whereby we are saved most frequently and properly and this Grace can in no way be called our own Righteousness 2. The Gifts by Grace are many Christ himself and his Sufferings and Obedience are Gifts by Grace now our Souls are not the Subjects of these though these are the means whereby the Grace of God saveth other Gifts there be as Faith and Love our Souls are Subjects of but these are the Righteousness of Sanctification and these as well as our Salvation are but the Fruits of the Grace of God J. C. Parag. ibid. ' Its said God loveth Truth in the inward parts c. Answ And yet this Truth in the inward parts is but our own Righteousness Faith and Love are God's gifts he works them in us Now he loves his own Gifts yet they are ours by inhering in us our Faith our Love God would have them true and unfeigned yet they are ours still But now the Father much more loves the Righteousness of his Son Matth. 3. This is my Beloved Son in whom I am well pleased for it is for his sake that he pardons our defects in the exercise of this our own Righteousness and accepts us in this beloved Christ Ephes 1. J. C. Parag. ibid. But the Ground of thy dislike of the Gifts and Vertues that the Spirit of God works in our minds which thou callest our own Righteousness is because it
Resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Pet. 3.21 The Answer of a good Conscience through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ no Man can rightly Answer the accusation of his Conscience for not coming up to that absolute Perfection that the Law requireth but by Faith in the Resurrection of Jesus Christ who rose again for our Justification Rom. 4.25 Now one may have the Light within which you speak of and yet want Faith and this young Man it 's manifest had one at this time but wanted the other therefore his Peace was naught 4. Withal if this will hold many ungodly ones most prophane have the Spirit the Comforter for they have Peace both living and dying Psal 73. There are no bands in their Death and they say Peace in their Lives 1 Thes 5. They stretch themselves upon their Couches and Ch●unt at the sound of the Viol Amos 6.4 5. I read on page 31 and meet with nothing but the same over again which the Judicious Reader will take notice of till we come to that passage viz. That there is 〈◊〉 name under Heaven by which Men can be saved observe this is the second time of Baylies Blasphemy applying this to the Light within every man that is no more than Nature which can be attributed to none but Jesus Christ the Mediator calling it also the Deliverer and Counsellor from Isa 59. as well mightest thou call the Soul Reason Understanding of Man by these Names And whereas thou askest in this same place is there any other Spirit and Light which can deliver from sin and give power over it but what is of Jesus Christ Reply The young Man never owned this Light to deliver from and give power over sin as thou here intimates nay the scope of his Relation speaks the contrary and in the 17. Page he saith in the greatest of his purity and perfection there were longing desires after evil which he could be delivered from no manner of ways Observe Reader how these people make lies their refuge to defend their tottering Opinions if any deliverance it was only in externals Lust had as much power within as ever and this as hath been shewn may be had without the Spirit of Regeneration viz. external Reformation Before I conclude this let the Reader observe that Baylies Question runs thus viz. Any Spirit but what is of Christ why the Light of the Sun is of Christ the Wind is of Christ as a Creator is it therefore the Spirit of Regeneration proceeding from Christ as Mediator No surely But again in one place that we mentioned he calls the Light within the Tree of Life and in another a little before the Name whereby all must be saved the Deliverer and the Counsellor now here only of Christ a Spirit of Christ see what consistency is in these Mens lines Bayly Is it not the Light of Christ that makes sin manifest mentioing Ephes 5 Reply What Passage it is that thou hast thine eye upon I know not except the 13. Whatsoever makes manifest is Light Now this is true of all kinds and sorts of Lights they all make manifest but they act according to their several Natures yet Christ is the Author of them all the Light of the Sun will not make sin manifest yet another Light will the Quakers Light that every Man hath will manifest some sin but not all and it appears by the young Mans Relation for it will not shew desires to evil to be sin if they be not consented to according to what Paul doth testify in Rom. 7. I had not known sin but by the Law So then this Light thou pointest to in Ephes 5. was of ●nother sort in that all things were reproved by it and in that it was but lately bellowed on the Ephesians not having it before for in ver 8. Ye were sometimes darkness notwithstanding all the Light within that they had from the Womb. Bayly And doth not the Apostle say in that same place v. 8 9. the Fruit of the Spirit is in all Goodness Righteousness and Truth Reply By what I said before the Spirit spoke of in Ephes 5. is not the Light that every Man hath for they were darkness all that time they had that till Faith came This spoke of in the Ephesians was the Spirit of Grace Faith Adoption Regeneration the Spirit of the Son now the Root being different the Fruit must be different this Goodness Righteousness and Truth must be and is of another better sort and kind than that which yet is called by the same names springing from another Root viz. the Light that every Man hath B. And doth not W. H. Say it is the Spirit that maketh known 〈◊〉 which was not seen before then whenever any seeth sin it is the Spirit that makes it known and puts this word viz. Mark to it as a thing that he is happy in the hitting upon it and that what he saith is convincing and unanswerable Reply Now Reader see how acute this Man is in catching one in an Argument and holding one fast in it what a formidable Enemy I have to deal with This was spoke by me you may see in the sixth page of the little Book upon that Scripture viz. He shall Baptiz● you with the Holy Ghost and with fire Luke 3.16 Saying that the Spirit did operate after the manner of Fire i. e. by Light and Heat As to the Light the Spirit maketh known sin when it cometh thou shouldest have repeated that Phrase and then said Mark but as often as thou re●ea●edst this thou ever omittedst that phrase is this fair play It followes as the shining of the Sun through a Crack into a dark Room we may behold every small dust within that compass these are the words 〈◊〉 let me reason with thee a little every one hath the Light within you grant but is every one Baptized with the Holy Ghost and Fire is it not such a Spirit spoke of here wherewith every one is Baptized that is regenerated and none else which cometh to us at that time and worketh and dwelleth in us and we had it not before a Spirit that will shew the dust and. Atoms of sin and lust in our Souls which this Light that every one hath will not I will pass over and take no notice of thy railing Words that thou art full of here and elsewhere but the Conclusion will hold still which thou art angry with viz. That the Spirit of the Quakers is a Spirit of delusion and let the Reader 〈◊〉 by our Lives whether thou or I are more like the clamorous Woman thou speakest of I must desire the Reader to turn back to the 27th Page there is something that Bayly saith which I cannot well omit to speak something to it 's that which this Man doth frequently touch upon and his Brother 〈◊〉 I could not well Reply to it before because I would take all the objections I could gather and Answer them in order Bayly And yet he
he was Ma● he was capable of suffering Death To be cut off not for himself 〈◊〉 he was God he was able to go through the Work he had to do for poo● sinners This was he the Light that John bare Witness of wh●● chiefly deserveth the Name of Light seeing he giveth Light 〈◊〉 and receiveth Light of none Now as he was the Creator of all thing John 1.2 So he Lighteth every one we will grant that ●●●●thing the World reading that Phrase as you do Of which Light 〈◊〉 partook before his Fall yea and after his Fall though not in so great 〈◊〉 measure as when he was in the Image of God The Heathens had th● Light also yet were without God in the World Ephes 2.12 T●● Young Man Matth 10.20 that came to Christ had it And Paul before his Conversion yet both were without the Spirit of Regeneration as appears plainly Also there are many things and several Conditions to which man may by this Light of Nature attain and yet be without th● Spirit of Adoption viz. to be touching the Law blameless in the ey● of Man and seeming to himself to be Righteous before God 〈◊〉 9. It was so with me when time was and I saw no Bondage 〈◊〉 State though there was real Bondage According as it was with the in John 8.33 that said We be Abrahams Seed and are not in B●●● to any Man Where Christ did imply that they were not free they 〈◊〉 being sensible of their Spiritual Bondage If any say that by this Light a Man may apprehend the Notion 〈◊〉 Christ a Saviour a Gospel Why If that should be granted 〈◊〉 if I consult my own former experience and the Scripture it 〈◊〉 turneth the Gospel into loosness that Grace may abound or it corrupteth it by joyning the Law and Works for Justification with Christ It teacheth that the Law must be kept perfectly or else thou canst not be saved Yet I still deny that every Man that cometh into the World is Lighted with a Gospel-Spiritual-Light This is a Light that every Man hath not Therefore in Answer to your Request pag. 40. viz. to know of us Whether there be a Light that every Man hath not And if so how it differs from the other I ask Can there be the Light of the Sun without the Sun Or the Light of the Fire without the Fire Or can there be the Light of a Candle without a Candle Then can there be the Light of the Spirit in Man without the Spirit of God 1 Cor. 2.9 10 11. Now it is Evident that all Men have not the Spirit as in Rom. 8.9 If any Man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his Implying that some were without the Spirit Jude 19. Sensual not having the Spirit Gal. 3.2 This only would I learn of you Received ye the Spirit by the works of the Law or by the hearing of Faith Then there was a Time before they received it seeing they might remember when and how they received it John 14.17 The Spirit of Truth which the World cannot receive Then the World hath it not And many more Instances may be gathered out of the Acts of the Apostles That both Jews and Gentiles had a Light the Gentiles had the work of the Law written upon their hearts and the Jews with this Natural Light the Knowledg of the Law of Moses Yet were without the Spirit not being Converted to the Faith of Jesus but opposing it Wherefore as a Man in outward things cannot lay hold on that which is beyond his reach no more can any by that common Light that every Man hath lay hold on that which is above its reach For that Light that shewed Adam that he had broke the Law of God Gen. 3. did not shew unto him the way of deliverance but God shewed it to him by Revelation So is it in our Day none seeth any Beauty or Comeliness in the Gospel without the Lord reveal it unto him by his Spirit Now here comes in the other Query pag. 41. Whether this Light I speak of the Light of the Spirit of Christ be another sort or kind of Light differing from that which every Man hath I Answer Of those that have the Common Light it 's said John 3. 6. That which is born of the Flesh is Flesh Titus 1.15 16. Vnto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing ●ure but even their mind and Conscience are defiled they profess that they know God but in works they deny him being abominable disobedient and to every good work reprobate or of no judgment The Natural Man discerneth not the things of God neither indeed can 1 Cor. 2.14 But now of those that have the other in the least measure of it this is said 1 Tim. 1.5 Now the end of the Commandment is Charity out of a pure heart and of a good Conscience and Faith unfeigned 1 Tim. 1.19 Holding Faith and a good Conscience which some having put away But how did they put it away What by falling into Theft Murder and Adultery and such-like practises Not so much by these things if at all for they became Teachers of the Law and as I humbly conceive thought that the Law must be kept perfectly as necessary for Salvation by which Doctrines they did corrupt the Gospel and cast off the Faith which once they pretended to making an unlawful use of the Law as Paul Witnesseth v. 7 8. whose Doctrine did eat as a Canker as it doth in our day Therefore the sum of all is as to these two Scriptures No Faith in Jesus no good Conscience no pure Light For they are always joyned together never go asunder Furthermore Paul speaking of himself 2 Tim. 1.3 That he served God at that present from his forefathers i. e. as Abraham and Isaac c. that were in the same Faith that he had now only they looked unto Christ to come and he as already come With pure Conscience How so had he not a pure Conscience always No when-as he said of himself before when a Pharisee he ought to do many things contrary to the Name of Jesus Yet lived strictly as touching the Law But time was that when a Pharisee the Lord met him and smote him to the Ground and gave him his Spirit and then he builded up the things that before he destroyed viz. The Faith of Christ and then and not till then had he a pure Conscience and served God with this pure Conscience Obj. But why should this Common Light be counted impure or an evil Conscience seeing it reproveth for sin And the Heathens by this did things contained in the Law which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts their Consciences bearing Witness Why should it be so called or stiled Answ Because it doth not shew unto Man Obedience to the Will of God from right ends and from right principles from right reason and understanding and judgment But is like an