rise againe Nay doth not this prove plainly that death had dominion over them and that they were thereby destroyed for otherwise how should there be place for their rising again And indeed the restoring of the Church to her being doth necessarily imply the losse of her being otherwise there would be no place for restoring If all men had been destroyed at the deluge of Noah a new creation had been necessary Happily he may think their is something in that that God is not the God of the dead but of the living in as much as all live to him Indeed this may prove the soules immortality and living with God But what sense it hath in regard of the Church is beyond my thoughts for certainly if it hath reference to the Church it will enforce the being and continuace of the Church of the Jewes and the Patriarchall Churches which ceased long agoe To imagine their continuance what can be more vaine But further if because all live to God therefore the Church alwayes hath a being where is place left for her death and cessation Truly this is a matter too far fetcht to prove any thing in this matter that may stand him in any stead for if any thing be gathered from it it must be that as Abraham and so other Prophets dyed and left the world so the Church of Christ dyed also and was destroyed out of the world But if he shall say Abraham and the rest lived notwithstanding The answer is they lived indeed another way not in regard of their mortall bodies but in regard of their immortall soules Their outward visible bodies were destroyed and in the dust so the outward visible Church is destroyed and ceases to be but the inwardnesse of it the life and soule to wit Jesus Christ is in heaven with God what this maketh to the matter in hand I leave the Reader to judge And this way saith J. S. I suppose Christ may have and enjoy as good a wife ever as any can be preserved for him under the defection of Antichrist Answ This way is a meere supposition without reason and against sense That Christ should have sometime a wife and sometime none and then one againe and yet he should have ever one preserved It were good to lay aside such senselesse suppositions and to beleeve the Scriptures that tell us that the man of sinne sometime sitteth in the Temple of God and that Gods Temple 2 Thes 2. 4. remaineth and hell gates shall not prevaile against it Though the Church Christs wife may goe astray and be corrupted yet he Matth. 16. 18 that is her husband will not forsake but will reform her and refine her and put new garments on her sure he hath read what God said of old to his Spouse Thou hast played the harlot with many Jer. 3. 10. 22. lovers yet return to me saith the Lord I am thy husband and thy maker But happily if he had then lived hee would have supposed Esa 54 5. that Christ might have had or have made to himselfe a new as he in this case endeavoureth to doe for him as good a wife as that that was so corrupt and defiled The truth is there is more rich grace and free mercy in Jesus Christ then to take advantage and to refuse and put away for he is the Lord that changeth not and therfore his Church is not destroyed no notwithstanding the evils she Mal. 3. 6. falleth into for he hateth putting away It were more sutable for J. S. and those of his way to professe Mal. 2. 16. the doctrine of workes which is sutable to their other opinions then the doctrine of free grace unlesse they would be more true to their principles as in this particular more especially wherein they hold corruption dissolveth the marriage bond and maketh the relation to cease and causeth the everlasting Lord to change and his Covenant to faile for evermore Psal 77. 8. The following complaint and story by which it is illustrated I have spoken unto it before in which matter of guilt if hee and those of his way should take water and wash their hands they would notwithstanding be no lesse guilty then Pilate was of Jesus blood But after this he telleth of his feares and that is that men put more in Baptisme then doth of right belong to it that doe preferre it before the Church and all other Ordinances besides Answ Is not J. S. and those of his way sick of this disease and that as dangerously as those he is in such feare of how otherwise should it be that they should be so often baptized over and over and over againe and make a Church that they may make Baptisme I leave the Reader to judge 2. How doth this appeare which he so feareth in others that they preferre it before the Cburch and all Ordinances beside Answ It is onely to the qualification of the matter externally that it might be sutable to the rest of the building Ephes 5. 26. But yet this charge is not altogether true for they doe not preferre Baptisme before the Word and the publishing of it by which faith comes Nay they doe not preferre it above or before the Church the Church being the pillar and ground of truth that is of the truth 1 Tim. 3. 15. of Ordinances and divine worship and so of Baptisme in the proceed of it in a right way which Church the matter of it at the preparing of it by John was first baptized and after laid together in the building So of this matter thus by Johns preaching prepared and by his washing in the second place fitted was in after time gathered and laid into a holy building to the Lord which Church way begun and setled in the world augmented and encreased those washed washing others according to Christs appointment never any unwashed person being added or laid into the building since the Church begun it being necessary that the matter of the Temple be outwardly fitted that it may sute with the rest of the building being laid thereon So as J. S. may be satisfied that his feares in the first place are causelesse the Church being on foot according to God Baptisme in administration followeth But in further declaring the reason of his feares he saith For they can erect a Church take in and cast out members elect and ordaine officers administer the Supper and all anew without looking after succession any further then the Scriptures But as for Baptisme they must have that successively from the Apostles though it come through the hands of Pope Jone what the reason of this is that men can doe all from the Word but onely Baptisme and that must come by man even by the man of sinne Answ To balance the thoughts of J. S. I will present a case to his consideration supposing he had lived in the Apostacie of the ten Tribes yea of Judahs Apostacie and returning to the Lord
Reason 9 This Doctrine of Infants Baptisme opposeth directly the expresse Word of God by teaching that Infants are in the Covenant of Grace being borne of believing parents and so a holy seed by vertue of which they have right to Baptisme as a priviledge of grace Against which the holy Ghost affirms that all are conceived in sin and brought forth in iniquity and so by nature the children of wrath and under the curse and except they be horne againe they cannoe see the Kingdome of God Psal 51. 5. c. Here man saith that Infants are clear and holy from the wombe and so are subjects of grace But God saith all Infants as well one as other are first in sin and unholy and subjects of wrath untill the second birth makes the difference John 3. Answ At the length I. S. hath attayned to the full number of his Reasons which are far more by number then by weight and surely this last is not in the least behinde the other for shallownesse for either he was very ignorant of what he set down or else perversenesse of spirit carryed him headlong to the multiplying of words without councell against the truth For First I would ask of I. S. whether Isaac and Jacob and the Infants of Israel were not in the Covenant of Grace whether he and they were not a holy seed by vertue of which they had right to Circumcision and priviledge of Grace Rom. 2. 29. That the Covenant to Abraham was a Covenant of Grace I suppose he denyeth not that Circumcision was a priviledge of Grace the Seale of that Covenant the Apostle testifieth in the case of Abraham He received it as the Seal of the righteousnesse of faith Rom. 4. 11. Secondly I would know whether Isaac the particular Son of Promise Heb. 11. 9. with Jacob fellow-heire were not borne in sin and whether he or they in Infancy were under wrath so as he could not be in the Covenant of Grace Thirdly I would ask him whether children being out of the Covenant of Grace and born in sin and so under wrath according to his sense can possibly be converted so as to see heaven if they John 3. Rom. 10. 15. die in Infancy seeing by outward means they cannot come to believe till they be able to hear and may not be judged within the Covenant nor baptized till they manifest faith sure according to his opinion to our notion they are all debarred Heaven at a blow But truly as the opinion is so is the consequences that attend it erroneous and false but in as much as this stone is much stumbled at by some of that way I shall indeavour to remove it in shewing that the Doctrine of Infants Baptisme agreeth fully with the Word of God The Infants of the faithfull being within the Covenant of grace externally Gen. 17. 7. That this Covenant is to a thousand Generations Psal 105. 8. That God is not the God of the Jews only but of the Gentiles Rom. 4. 29. That the Gentiles are fellow heires of the same body and partakers of the promise in Christ Eph. 3. 6. That there is no Rom. 10. 12. difference but that he that is Lord of all is rich to all Rom. 10. 12. His grace and mercy being not lessened but inlarged All his promises of grace being to the Gentiles yea and amen in Christ 2 Cor. 1. 24. Act. 15. 18. Touching inward Sanctity and inward right in the Covenant as it is Gods worke and interessing of whom it pleaseth him so it is only known to him To whom all his works are known from the Mar. 22. 14. foundation of the World A thing not within our Spheare wee being to meddle with things revealed and to proceed according to that Secondly this Covenant of grace externally of which we treat it is extended more largely then according to J. S. his narrow Deu. 29. 29. minding of it that seemeth as if he would thrust himselfe into the room of God medling with things secret and proceeding in his measuring of things that way making the Covenant of grace externally to be with the invisible Elect and not with the called in Jesus Mat. 22. 14. Christ of whom many are called but few chosen so as he is not able I am sure as infallible to shew one person of that Covenant whereas it is and may be known that the Covenant of grace is made with Christs Kingdome his Church and that consists of Virgins five wise and five foolish and Israel though as the sand of the Mat. 25. 2. Sea yet but a remnant shall be saved If J. S. would but be pleased to Rom. 9. 27. take notice of the outwardnesse of the Covenant of grace as before as well as the inwardnesse of it the outwardnesse of the matter to which the Covenant is made as well as the inwardnesse of the matter known only to God he would surely be of another minde and would not say it crosseth the Word of God to hold children within the Covenant of Grace for truly if they be not neither inwardly nor outwardly in the same they are in a sad case being wonderfull losers by the comming of Christ into the world with grace and Joh. 1. 17. truth by whom so many gaine But it is evident by what before is declared that they are in that Covenant and so are to be sealed as others with the Seale of it and that so doing is fully according to the Word of God But saith he the Holy Ghost affirmes that all are conceived in sinne children of wrath and under the curse so as they cannot see the Kingdome Grosse ignorance of God unlesse born again To which I say Isaack and Jacob heires of the promise were borne in sinne and yet in the Covenant of grace so soon and before they were born J. S. is yet beside the matter and much to seeke A little to unfold this matter so hidden to J. S. and those of his way There is a different consideration to be had of this matter even as there is of a person of yeeres who may truly bee said to be a Saint and also a sinner in a different sense So the infants of the faithfull may be said to be born in sin and brought forth in iniquity and so in that consideration under wrath and yet in another minding born the holy seed of promise even as Isaack and the Israelites of old as witnesseth the Apostle ye are the Children of the promise and again the promise is to you and your children Act. 3. 25. Act. 2. 19. let it but be considered in the case of Isaack in particular who was in a speciall manner the childe of promise yet he was born in sinne c. Let J. S. and those of his way use their wit and reason in stead of faith to find out this matter some other way and they shall but tire themselves in vain It will appeare
matter and clean out in this first Notion Second Notion And for succession of truth truth of Ordinances you must understand It comes now by the promise of God and faith of his people whom he as aforesaid hath taken out of the world to the fellowship of the Gospel Answ Setting aside succession and in stead thereof putting in continuation What can be more right then this though not in J. S. his sense The truth of Ordinances continues by vertue of Gods promise made to his people they continuing to beleeve in him and not forgetting his name though many times greatly failing against him as of old yet the truth of Ordinances continue namely the Church and Baptisme now as the Church and Circumcision did of old and this by the promise of God J. S. hath no such sense as this but some inward familisticall sense of inward faith and Gods promise to such secret beleevers which he is never able to make out any such thing that the truth of Ordinances depends upon them in regard of continuation by vertee of the promise of God to them in such a secret way Third Notion To whom the Ordinances of Christ stand only by succession of faith What faith outward or inward and not of persons What faith severed from persons Answ I would fain know what any rationall man can make of this either in it self or as it hath relation to what is before declared Fourth Notion For the same power the Apostles had in former time for direction in godlinesse the Scriptures have in the hand of Christ as the head of the Church which make up but one body 1 Cor. 12. 12. Answ such power for direction in godlinesse the Scriptures had of old when the Apostles lived Some other things J. S. aimeth at but the truth prevaileth and the words he here useth will nothing avail namely of the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joyned with the Church It s worth observing how the Church is here couched just after the manner of the Babylonians that pretend their Church is inspired with the Holy Ghost and cannot erre for Christ the head is in Heaven and hath left his Word for direction in godlinesse for his Church to take heed unto Now the holy Apostles had authority to act Ordinances according to Christs command they were to preach pray break bread and baptize the Scriptures were not sent neither act they any thing as before So as in J. S. his sense it is utterly untrue that the Scriptures in the hand of Christ joyned with the body have the same power to act Ordinances as the Apostles had Notion fift and last So as what the Apostles and Church together might do in acting Ordinances you must understand the same may the head and body together with the Scriptures do now Reader observe how J. S. coucheth subtilly his unbaptized Church betwixt Christ and the Scriptures so as Christ being in heaven and the Scriptures only directive the whole matter for action will fall into the hands of the Church A contrivance as fine as the Papist found out when they were sore put to it by John Hus and the Bohemians and not able to defend themselves and their courses against the truth they invented and abetted this That holy Church could not erre Secondly observe how I. S. quitteth two of these three namely the head and body and concludeth laying all the stresse upon the Scriptures and so in effect saith nothing at all the Scriptures being only directive for saith he the Scriptures have the same whereas he should have said the head and body with the Scriptures have it Thirdly observe what a preposterous conjunction I. S. maketh of three in the matter of fact one of which to wit Christ the head is in Heaven who though he hath fulnesse of power acts not here below but in a providenciall and ministeriall way and the like The Church the second Christs wife is in all things to be obedient to Christ her husband his will and pleasure contained in the Scripture the Scriptures they act not but only direct where is I. S. now just where he was at the first and no further Fourthly this is utterly untrue which he concludeth that what the Church and the Apostles the Ministers of the Churches might do that the Scriptures he quitteth the head and body as before may do Now what might not the Church and the Apostles do in ordinances and administration orderly according to God what can the Scriptures act truly nothing at all their authority is only directive I suppose any one may see how far out I. S. is in these conceits In the close he is up again with revelation which happily if he did study and cleave unto would stand him in more stead then the Scriptures that are so helplesse to him in his cause CHAP. IV. Containing a defence of the opinion of them that hold no right or orderly Ministeriall Church without or before Baptisme I. S. Having ended his former matter against the Churches continuance and likewise the continuance of Baptisme under the popish defection proceeds saying And so we come to such as will have no Church before Baptisme and so make Baptisme the form of the Church Answ Who these such are that he intendeth I cannot tell they are either some of his own way or some other some of his own way do indeed so hold that Baptisme constitutes or is the form of the Church Did I think he intended them I should leave them to try it out and should not intermeddle with the strife I shall only as the matter relates to them shew my thoughts briefly namely that they will be too hard for J. S. in the tenent he himself being of their belief but that he is not true to his owne principle otherwise how should he without Schisme and being a Schismatick leave the reformed and separated Churches and set up another of his own as he hath done only he accounteth them no Churches of Christ and what is the reason he doth so nothing but his Baptisme is wanting so as that must be the form that gives being for otherwise They are companies of Saints professing faith in the righteousnesse of Christ and living accordingly that is in holynesse of life This he describeth to be the matter and the form he declareth to be their being united and knit together in one fellowship or orderly body and that is the Covenant of grace by which God becomes not visibly as he unawars saith but in an outward way of relation a God unto them and they become visibly his people Now what is there to hinder J. S. from being a Schismatick by his own ground for surely nothing hinders those Churches which he forsaketh and disclaimeth as no Churches of Christ by all or any thing that in his description of the matter or form of the Church by him set down can be found and let him take in his five Reasons to help him if he
by matters fundamentall and how the receipt of the Ordinance can be a matter fundamentall when the person may not onely be matter but part of a Church without it as he holdeth Fourthly I would know how the word of man stands in the place of the Word of God and what he meaneth by the bare word of man in this matter of fact Lastly I would know what he meaneth by truly receiving this holy Ordinance and whither he hold there be a false receiving this Ordinance and yet the Ordinance holy and true to them that receive it This Reason as it is set down I take to be something like a spell The summe of it in other words I take to be this Infants are not to be baptized for that they cannot be assured when they come to yeers that they were baptized but by the witnesse of man and if that fail then there is no way of satisfying of themselves that they were at all baptized To which I answer first that I would not much strive with a person in such a case If that were the cause that the probablenesse of his not being at all Baptized were the cause that moved him to desire to be Baptized especially if it did appeare to them by whom he should seek to be Baptized that he had not been Baptized at all But surely this is far from the case in question wherein men get themselves baptized not that they thinke they were not baptized at all but that they judge it was not the Baptisme of Christ because of the corruptions in the subject instrument or the manner of their being baptized which made the matter null and void Secondly I would have it minded how a person circumcised in youth could be assured when he came to yeers especially if his Circumcision were gathered and grown so as he could not see the print in the flesh For this Reason if it hath any force in it it hath the same against Circumcision in Infancy as against Baptisme for such so circumcised could be no otherwise assured then such a way as will come within the compasse of humane testimony If it be said They might satisfie themselves by the sight of the print of the flesh I answer that might be gathered and grown so as not to be seen And again if it were not that fight is not the Word of God and beside they might be mistaken or be circumcised unlawfully Thirdly that others were circumcised of old or are baptized now especially those to be joyned with in publike Ordinances and speciall communion Now how could the Israelites know of old or how can it be known now in particular how will I. S. to put the case to himselfe how will he I say know and be assured that such and such as he holdeth communion withall are baptized but by humane testimony instead of the Word of God as he saith he must take their own word in their own case whether it be not humane I leave it to him to judge And I demand further whether upon this his ground any can in faith joyn in fellowship and speciall communion or could of old with any they did not see or have not seen circumcised of old Ephes 44. 9. or Baptized now in this dispensation of the Gospell for suppose they were Baptized in Holland or in some part of this Kingdom nay in this City and I not see it done where am I then by his ground I must beleeve the bare word of man in stead of the Word of God in a matter alike fundamentall according to his account Fourthly in matter of fact I judge Faith of such a nature as we have now in hand is to goe upon humane testimony if I. S. will have it so called and that such testimony is of divine authority and every way satisfactory to be rested in for at the mouth of two or three witnesses every truth stands ratified In matter of fact I Matth. 18. 16. make it appear thus That such a people are Christs Church a Church being a fundamentall thing mens witnesses must carry it and give satisfaction especially in regard of the first beginning of a Church which some much stand upon Again that such a person is the lawfull Minister of Christ and his Church lawfully chosen and ordained what way is there of satisfaction but the word of man to any but onely to those that were at the acting of it Excommunication is an ordinance alike fundamentall with Baptisme it is to be done in faith the practike part of it is to be built upon the testimony of men at the mouth of two or three witnesses so as here expresly the word the bare word of man carrieth the same So as I conclude as this reason is a foolish fancy so it premiseth wholly upon untruth and raiseth unprofitable doubts and hath the same force against other Ordinances of Christ as it hath against Baptisme of Infants that it can by no means reach so high as to hinder Infants Baptisme all which I leave to the judgement of the Reader Reason 7 To baptize Infants makes the Ordinance of God a lying signe because none of those things can be expected in an Infant which the said Ordinance holds forth or signifieth in the administration of it which is the parties regeneration and spirituall new birth a dying and buriall with Christ in respect of sin and rising with him in a new life to God and a confirmation of faith in the death and resurection of Christ and free remission of sins by the same as Rom. 6. 3 4. none of all which can be expected in an Infant Answ This is a lying accusation of a malignant spirit against a holy practise of an Ordinance of Gods own appointment for might not any one as truly have said thus of Circumcision of Infants of old aswell as of the Baptisme of Infants now for what could be expected of an Infant then that cannot be now Did not Circumcision call for and lead unto then as much as Baptisme doth now did not Circumcision call for Circumcision of heart Circumcision Rom. 2. 29. being as the Apostle speaketh of the heart not of the letter the praise whereof is of God not of men did it not also call for regeneration and newnesse of life were not the Infants of it spirituall above the reach of the creature especially children yet it was then no lying signe as I. S. in the case of Baptisme lyingly affirmeth Secondly I say our Lord was baptized and this Ordinance was no lying signe as it was acted on him yet those things were not in him nor could be which I. S. saith the Ordinance holdeth forth or signifieth namely Regeneration a spirituall new life dying to sin burying with Christ rising with him in newnesse of life confirmation of faith and free remission of sins by the same What will J. S. say now will he say it was a living signe or will he confesse his lying accusation to
a truth fully held forth in the holy Scriptures that though all men since their fall in Adam Christ the new or second Adam excepted have been and are born in sinne and so under wrath that way yet a number have obtained such free grace as that though in another consideration they are and have been by generation the seed of promise holy and such as God hath and doth owne for his children even as hee did Isaack and the seed of Israel of old and the seed of the beleeving Gentiles who are under mercie and grace by promise as they are under sinne and wrath the other way And were and are high in the account of God what ever meane account J. S. hath of them of all which and who and what to beleeve let the upright heart to God judge as J. S. in the end of his Reason setteth down thinking belike he had said something that had concluded all But alas how farre these weak and inconsiderate reasons are from effecting what the Author of them intendeth any one that is not of a very childish understanding may be able to discerne for sure men must be childish indeed that in a matter of such weight and concernment as is their outward Christianity and relation to Christ that way shall by such reasons be so swayed as to renounce and reject the same CHAP. II. Containing a discovery of the vaine pretence of J. S. of finding Baptisme now lost and fallen out of the world as hee holdeth in the holy Scriptures of God I. S. At the end of pag. 37. saith That the substance of his former discourse had been about the subjects of Baptisme in which if any please to beleeve his own witnesse in his owne cause hee hath disproved the Baptisme of two sorts of persons First of beleevers infants Secondly the Baptisme in the defection of Antichrist being Baptisme in infancie also So as like a work-man indeed he hath overthrown the outward Christianity and relation to Christ that way priviledges of grace and Saintship and what not all which are of much concernment every manner of way unto men and that of all persons in the world onely those few so of late baptized by totall dipping Is not this Goliah like and can any marvell that we poore Israelites thus stripped and left naked are offended and complain being such losers and turned out of all Had he any great reason to complain as he doth in his Epistle and elsewhere in his book again and againe as pag. 40. Some have so wide mouthes open against them that wished them ever well Well indeed to unchristian them and to strip them of all relation to Christ externally quit them of all interest in the Covenant of God yea making them as without God in the world so casting them out that Ephes 2. 12. 1 Sam. 26. 19. they may goe and serve other gods And can he think much that they complaine of wrong What have they more He saith he will leave them to God to whom they must be accomptable for all their hard words But what are those hard words surely such as these that they say their way and course is erroneous a new invention having evill consequences attending of it that they are light and mutable in their courses and very censorious and is all this so great a matter and hard to be born Are not his words or those of his way farre more easie that condemns all the people and servants of Jesus Christ in the world for unbaptized the course and way of all Churches reformed or separate as Idolatrous and not of God only those of his way excepted though the said persons or Churches be endued with never so lively graces and walk never so sincerely and uprightly with good conscience in the way God hath made known to them But saith he I leave them to God to whom they shall give account for all their hard words Surely he forgetteth and doth not think of the hard censures and grievous condemnations that he and those of his way give and lay upon all that follow not their erroneous way and course In way of further complaint he saith Men doe as the Tyrants did of old And old story indeed and ill applyed but though he be not he saith certain of the truth of it he is certain that some are little better minded that labour to cover the godly with such filth as they vomit out of their self-sick stomacks To all which I say its more easie to see a moat in anothers eye then a beam in their own how doth J. S. and those of his way cover the godly and the Churches of Christ with the filth of their vomit which they cast forth and yet he wipeth his mouth as innocent and wonderfully as we see complaineth of others that have more cause to complaine of him for he can lay heavie burthens and grievous to be born making men no Christiant no Churches of Christ but Synagogues of Satan of the world Antichristians Idolaters and what not all which men must bear though never so innocent but now the least of these he will not indure to touch with his finger but he cryeth out bitterly but as their dealing is unequall in this even so it is in other things But now to return and leave this digression In pag. 38. he telleth us That this falling out so How is that That that the Baptisme of all persons and Churches in the world those few of his way excepted being void and null an Idoll and none of Christs It followeth saith he that we are now to seek for the Lords true Baptisme This is sure a wonderfull case indeed that the Baptisme of Christ should be thus lost and fallen out of the world Now saith he in a case so difficult as some would make it two things in speciall are to be inquired into First How or where to finde it Secondly how it may be obtained being found For the first If any Ordinance be so deceased and lost as we do not know where it is afoot in Gods way in the world a rare case Baptisme is thus lost and deceased in his opinion so as those that find themselves unbaptized may be made partakers of it What are they to do They are to go to Christ and his Apostles as the godly then did But I say Christ his Apostles have left the world and are in heaven I but saith he That is to the Scriptures which are the lively Oracles of God Ans And so they were when Christ and the Apostles were on the earth The spirit saith he speaking in them to a beleever Answ They stand in the place of Christ for advice and counsell and so they did then for both our Lord and the Apostles sent us to them and spake nothing but according to them But what of this Truly nothing to the purpose nor yet that which is added Namely That they have ability to furnish a man of faith
with all truth as the Scriptures quoted compared together will prove To which I say they do easily and fully prove the same and there were never any that held the perfection of the Scriptures that did deny the same yet is J. S. never the nearer for all his pains in multiplying expressions to make the matter seem something when indeed it is nothing at all to purpose For To the Law and the Testimony we are to go And in Esay 8. 20. 2 Pet. 1 19. difficult cases To take heed to the Word as to a Light that enlighteneth in darknesse Now first I say the Scripture giveth no light at all concerning such a cessation of the Church and Ordinances Nay it is against the light of the Scriptures to beleeve any such thing Jesus Christ having said That hell gates shall not prevail against his Church and Matth. 16. Matth. 28. 20. having also promised his presence for preservation and continuation for ever Secondly I say it is but directively that the Scriptures do furnish men in all cases now their direction in this case it is to the Church 2 Tim. 3. 17 18. and to the ministery of man for the enjoying and being made partakers of the holy Ordinances of God The holy Scriptures of old in a like manner stood in the stead of Moses and the Prophets in a sense And yet the heathen were to repair to Jerusalem for the Ordinances as they did and did not act Esay 8. 20. 2 Pet. 1. 19. 2 Chro. 6. 32. them themselves with the help of the Law The Scriptures in a sense stood in the stead of Christ and the Apostles yet the people must go to John yea our Lord himself that he might fulfill righteousnesse Matth. 3. 15. must go to him Cornelius must send for Peter Paul must Act. 10. 32. Act. 9. 10. have Ananias and so such as attain the knowledge of the truth they are to go to the Church and Ministery of man appointed of God and so that way to be added to the Church and made partakers of the holy Ordinances of God for it is most certain the Act. 2. 47. Scriptures act nothing neither can they they onely direct in righteousnesse 2 Tim. 3. 16. their directions is always as aforesaid and no otherwise Thirdly I say it is not true that the Scriptures are in the stead of the holy Ministery ordained by God The Scriptures were not in the stead of the Priests in case of Sauls sacrificing nor in Vzzia the King his burning incense to inable them to do as they did 1 Sam. 13. 12. The Scriptures were not in stead of circumcised Jews unto the Heathen to inable them or make them capable of building the Temple 2 Chron. 26. 17 18. They were not in stead of John Baptist to our Lord They were not in stead of Peter to Cornelius and his friends As it is not in stead of Ezra 4. 3. Matth. 3. 15. Acts 10. 32. Christ the Apostles or holy Ministery to an unbaptized person or persons to inable them warrantably to Baptize and so without Commission to raise this Ordinance a new so lost and deceased out of the world according to his opinion The Scriptures which he quoteth I shall set down and they are these 2 Tim. 3. 15. 2 Pet. 1. 19. Rom. 16. 25 c. Now I appeal to the indifferent Reader whether these Scriptures all or any of them are any other then directive Again whether their direction it be not to a precedent Stative Church and ministery of man appointed by God as formerly under Moses and the Prophets so in this latter dispensation under Christ and the Apostles as is before declared Lastly whether these Scriptures or any of these or all of these compared together do give direction to a person unbaptized himself to baptize either himself or others and whether they do not rather testifie against such usurpation of Gods holy things and running before they be sent in thus doing a thing that never came into Jerem. 23. 21. the minde of God much lesse did he require it at their hands Jerem. 32. 35. J. S. proceedeth and saith By all which we see that all things are contained in the Scriptures Answ Yea in the way of direction and therefore such practices as are without the direction of the Scripture are unwarrantable such as is their casting away as Null their present Baptisme because of some corruptions that did attend it and beginning it again with greater corruptions namely by an unbaptized person without Commission acting of it Here he addeth many good words in commendation of the Scriptures As containing all things concerning faith and obedience as being the Propheticall mouth of Christ to which all must repair unto and all Doctrines and practices must be tryed by and an Angell from heaven is not to be beleeved but as they speak according to it All which is directive as I said before And what then Truly nothing Though he go over the same matter again with some different expressions and some of them improper carrying a shew of favouring his conceit and what he would have As where he saith The Scriptures is the onely place How is this proper or true unlesse he mean in a directive way Where any Ordinance of God in case aforesaid that is of cessation and losse of being again when or wheresoever any of these meaning Ordinances of God cannot be found What then We are saith he to go to the Scriptures directly and recover the same again as Cant. 1. 7. Esay 8. 19 20. Answ All this is but the same over again we are to go to the Scripture for direction if the case were so the Scripture directing and not acting as Esay 8. 19 20. the Church acting according to that direction and therefore persons are sent thither according to that Cant. 1. 7. alleadged which is according to the direction of Scripture which alwayes sendeth men to the Church in such cases so as in this copiousnesse he doth but puzzle his Reader to make him beleeve what he is never able to prove He proceedeth saying Thus having found out the place or subject very improper expressions Is not the Scripture the ground and foundation of all Ordinances in a directive way Did ever any Christian question it much lesse deny it That he should with often going over the same and with such improper expressions and far fetches seek to make it appear as a discovery of truth not known or at least not assented unto sure he had some further drift in it then ordinary In the next place he saith It is to be known how they that want it may come orderly by it For saith he though God hath joyned his Word and Ordinances together yet he hath injoyned an orderly way for his people to come to injoy them Answ I would fain know to what end all the former matter serveth if so be God require an
very dark and smoakie this hee will doe by shewing the manner of the aforesaid Constitution in the causes of it How will he doe it in pag. 40. by saying over again what he had said again and again before namely that the Scriptures remaining in the place of the Apostles for us to have recourse unto and serve as the mouth of Christ Alas this is but a poore clearing for this is onely in a directive way as before I noted And what then The Scriptures being so truly nothing at all Yes saith he as the Apostles did before the Scriptures were written To which I say there were Scriptures before the Apostles to which the Apostles had an eye and regard and directed others to doe the like The holy Apostles they acted Ordinances of Religion preaching breaking bread and baptizing The Scripture acts nothing neither can they surely Act. 2. 42. this is a poore clearing we will minde the Scriptures hee here quoteth Matth. 28. 20. 2 Pet. 19. 20 21. Rom. 10. 6 7 8. In answer I will not tire my selfe and the Reader certainly no man can imagine any thing more then direction from that full and perfect rule of the Scriptures as gatherable from those places of Scripture which as before I said none deny let him but call to mind what he said of an orderly way which God requireth and how that is as he conceiveth by the Church and then let him tell mee if hee can to what purpose these Scriptures are or that which followeth that as the Lords people conferred with the Prophets and Apostles about their great affaires so have the Lords people now Moses and the Prophets Christ and his Apostles in their writings as Luk. 16. 29. And what then truly nothing it is but for direction as before nor yet that which further followeth in this clearing matter of the constituting causes which are saith he with the spirit of life in them as effectuall as their personall presence if not more Answ Stay a while the matter is sure otherwise for this effectuallnesse if it were granted is but directive But it is not wholly granted for that the Apostles were men inspired and sent of God to declare his will they were a saving meanes of good to men and God in his good pleasure as a double mercy gave his Word and sent his Apostles and Prophets sure I take it it must needs follow that if the Scriptures were as effectuall without the Apostles and rather more then with them then God gave the Apostles in vaine and the Churches were great losers by their personall presence but the truth is otherwise as is most manifest The Scripture with the Spirit of life in them act nothing but onely direct and furnish men how to act according to the will of God in an orderly way according to what hee holdeth For proofe of what before he affirmed of the effectualnesse of the Scripture he quoteth Joh. 6. 62. 2 Pet. 1. 18 19. Revel 11. 3 5 11. Answ That in John speaketh of Christ ascending where he was before how this should prove any thing is beyond my thoughts I will say nothing but leave the Reader to judge of it That place of Peter is of the sure direction of the Word in dark and our doing well to take heed to it That in the Revelation is of the two witnesses a thing too mysterious to be a proofe in this case I suppose J. S. will not hold himselfe to be one of those witnesses nor he with others of his way to be both those witnesses there spoken of I will say no more but leave the Reader to judge whether these Scriptures doe prove that the holy Scriptures with the Spirit of life in them as he is pleased to say are in stead of the Apostles personally sent of God with power to act ordinances or whether they in the case of the Ordinances dispensing in an orderly way are as much or more effectuall then the Apostles personally that were sent of Christ for that end who did not send the Scriptures as in the case of the Eunuch but Philip and in the case of Cornelius Peter as in those and the like instances may be seen He proceedeth and in full concluding of this matter saith and thus all succession what phrase have we here from the beginning came to Christ Of what speakes hee now of Ordinances I had thought all Ordinances had ever proceeded from him he being ever the Lord of the Church and sure he meaneth the Ordinances namely those ordained of old under Abraham and Moses and the Prophets these lasted continued to the coming of Christ into the world the substance indeed of those shadows so his sense may be good From Christ he saith to the Apostles from the Apostles to the Scriptures This is pure non-sense if I mistake not and beside I aske him where is that orderly way he told us of and how is the case now according to 1 Cor. 3. by him alleadged for the Authority of an unbaptized Church Doth he not by this discent seclude them from all rather then inright them to any such authorite happily he will say Oh from the Scriptures to us very good But first how from Christ to the Apostles Did Christ our Lord preferre the Apostles before his beloved Spouse for whom he gave himselfe I alwayes took the Apostles as the servants of the Church for Christs sake Secondly did the Ordinances 2 Cor. 4. 5. proceed from Christ to the persons of the Apostles or to their office as Apostles So as when they in regard either of person or office left the world it descended to the Scripture certainly the right and interest of the Scriptures was the same before the death and cessation of the Apostles as after and the Scriptures gained no legacie by such friends unlesse a sealing to the truth and full authority of their direction so from the Scriptures to us a wonderfull matter a very fair Ring from the Scriptures to the Scriptures and so to us just nothing but a shew of words without matter Further he saith That all succession is now spirituall So it seemeth he holdeth it was carnall before when it was from Abraham to Moses from Moses to Christ and the Apostles and so to the Scriptures and now it is from the Scriptures to us it is spirituall a rare conceit He saith it is now according to faith whether he mean faith of miracles or what else is hard to say but it mattereth not much for he is beside the Scriptures and walking in some other field It followeth not saith he the personall succession of any but onely the Word of God Answ Sure J. S. speaketh in a strange tongue he is never able to make out his sense that succession follows the Word the Word being immoveable and that which abideth for ever and hath no place for succession though he thus speaketh he know not what And the word of God he saith
giveth being to all Order and Ordinances It doth give being of direction and warrant declaring what is good and lawfull and what not It acts nothing God requireth an orderly way and that is by the Church Now courteous Reader do but seriously consider how J. S. hath cleared the way of raising and beginning again Baptisme lost and fallen out of the world as he beleeveth and how he hath removed the difficulties in the way which he ealleth clouds that darken the skie See if thou do not yet finde it very dark and cloudy as ever and never the clearer for all the labour and pains he hath taken and whether his labour and travell herein hath been to any more purpose then the washing of the Blackmoore For first of all Whereas he referreth thee to the Scriptures as the Successours of the Apostles in his opinion First Thou seest the Scriptures were before the Apostles and the Apostles themselves were guided by them Secondly That the Scriptures are onely directive and act nothing at all neither can they and beside they do not direct to any such course as the constituting an unbaptized Church or authorizing unbaptized persons to baptize Thirdly Thou seest what great cause of doubt and question there is according to his opinion whether these Scriptures be the Scriptures of God and whether they have not lost their being having been so long in Babylon and in the hands of Antichristians especially if it be minded that they were by Antichristians translated into our native Tongue their translating must needs make them Antichristian and to be rejected as false as well as their Baptisme Where will J. S. be then do thou but think for the raising a new his Church and Baptisme which I would wish him and those of his way to consider of well But then in the second place God being to be sought as he holdeth in an orderly way according to what he hath declared as his judgement and this orderly way being by the Church rightly gathered and constituted to whom Christ hath committed the power Consider good Reader in the first place that if the Scriptures be not Antichristian as his opinion inforceth that they have in them no ground or warrant by any example or precept for such an unbaptized Church neither can such a supposed Church be orderly constituted or the proceed thereof orderly the Scripture being wholly silent concerning any such thing This conceit of so making Christs Church and so making Baptisme being a meer Popish Tenent and the proceed therin like unto theirs in such like cases So as this Ordinance of Christs Baptisme being according to his opinion destroyed in Babylon and there being no orderly Church of Christ in earth to be found as he holdeth nor no Christ Moses Eliah or Prophet from heaven appearing nor yet any that by Signes and Miracles can prove the truth of their Mission I conceive it necessarily followeth and I willingly leave all men free to judge of it That J. S. is yet for all his clearing in a great straight and under a dark cloud out of and from under which he will not be able to get unlesse he do as Saul did make bold to do that which is unwarrantable and so running before he be sent and doing that which God never spake any word about the which he shall do well to take further knowledge of CHAP. III. Containing a defence of the judgement of such as hold that Baptisme hath continued Gods Ordinance in the Apostacie of Antichrist notwithstanding the corruptions attending of it in way of Answer to the Cavils and Exceptions of J. S. against the same BEfore that J. S. could finish the matter in the former Chapter and clear it as he pretended to do he found some Tenents in his way as opposite to that pretended truth but indeed errour which he endeavoured to maintain the which he setteth down thus First such as stand for a personall succession Again thus A word or two to such as hold succession in the defection of Antichrist Again Such as hold Baptisme by personall succession as in pag. 39. may be seen To which I answer First That sure J. S. mistaketh himself being never able to make it appear that any person or persons do so hold So I might let him alone to contest with his own fancie But in as much as he may happily have met with some that hold the continuation of Baptisme as Gods Ordinance in that defection not in way of succession that being no way proper to an Ordinance returning home unto himself his phrase of succession as darkening the truth I shall apply my self to take knowledge of his scope and purpose First he saith Such have received a sufficient Answer that hold so in what he had writ before To which I answer Indeed if he might be his own Judge in his own cause it might be so It were much better that others should have said so and praised him then he thus his own work But what was it that he had proved before in his conceit That all the world are unbaptized onely he and those of his way Is he not a mighty Champion thus to nullifie and make void the Christianity of all Christians in the world It is more then Turks could ever do by all the force and power they had He hath yet a word or two more to say to such as hold contrary to his erroneous conclusion that Baptisme hath continued and doth continue Gods Ordinance c. And first he begins by way of Querie thus If they mean by defection the outward form of worship and Government Ecclesiasticall as he thinketh they do Answ Is defection of so hard and doubtfull sense with J. S. as he should querie thus and go by thinking he may know that defection or defilement pollution or corruption are of one nature and that there is a reall difference betwixt corruption and the thing corrupted between defilement and the thing defiled betwixt Religion and Gods Ordinances and mens additions to and detractions from the same They mean that the Ordinances and in particular Baptisme hath continued from the Apostles downward thorow all the apostacie and defilements that have attended Religion and it to this day Just as Circumeision of old did continue Gods Ordinance in the apostacie and defilements of the ten Tribes under Jeroboam and likewise in the time of Manasses in Judah This is their meaning and what then Then saith he all the power and authority that ever carried out any Administration or constituted Ordinance depends on the same Just as Circumcision depended on the Calves in Jeroboams apostacie And if so saith he then the Ordainer and Ordinance ordained are both of one nature Yea they are both of one nature God is the Author he is spirituall and Baptisme the thing ordained so also If one be saith he Antichristian the other is also Antichristian Strong lines without proof What if neither be Antichristian neither the Authour nor
a personall succession again where will their succession of truth lye All these being returned home to J. S. their master he will see or at leastwise any indifferent person will be able to see that Pope Jone will help nothing in the case to hinder the continuance of the Churches being nor yet of the being of Baptisme with which Pope Jone medled not nor was any way concerned this matter at the most is but a relique of the dram before I. S. further tells us that when he speakes of personall succession of truth as in reference to Church and Church Ordinances he looks upon this in the power and authority tbat beares the same Answ Now J. S. seemeth something to awaken out of his dreame and to speak sense what ever sense he have in it his personall succession of truth set aside when he speaketh of the Church and Ordinances their continuance he looketh upon this in the power and authority that beares the same Now surely the power and authority that beares the Church and Church Ordinance up is the power of him that beareth up all things by his mighty power Jesus Christ our Heb. 1. 3. Lord against the gates of hell that preserves his Church as hee did his Arke when Dagon fell in his owne Temple Is it not a wonderfull Matth. 16. thing that he should conceit that Antichrist should by any power of his support Christs Church and the Ordinances thereof that with all his might and force indeavoureth their destruction and ruine but in vaine for Christ is stronger that with his mighty power supports them But J. S. looking awry cannot see any other bearing up the Church and Ordinances then by Antichrist and the Pope that are trampling it down what they can fitting there as God for by no meanes will he be brought to distinguish and put difference betwixt Gods Temple and the Man of sinne sitting in it but like Nicodemus he will say How can it be Joh. 3. For saith he To hold a Church to be true in regard of being you must mind and not of purity and the Ordinances their administred the true Ordinances of God and to leave this and to set up a way of worship apart from it and to deny communion with it is in his darke understanding a meere Schisme and the overthrow of all Order in Religion Answ I am both glad and sorry Glad that J. S. is no Apostle so as we are not bound to beleeve his bare word unlesse we will Sorry I am that he hath so dark a judgement and understanding as in this he doth discover For first I say a Church may be true and the Ordinances true that is Gods and yet both corrupt so as they cannot be partaken with all without sin In such a case there is to be a with-drawing from them in regard of particular communion in as much as we are to keep our selves pure not doing evill for good ends Yea a Church in regard of membership may be left and that without the said Churches consent as plainly appeareth by the example of the Apostles and others that left the Church of Israel of old and that while it was a Church And God himselfe calleth his people out of Babylon Rev. 18. 4. though the Church and Ordinances have a being there in as much as there can be no remaining there but there will be a partaking in sinne So as leaving particular communion and personall relation of membership I conceive is very necessary and according to God after the manner of all the Reformed Churches that have come out of Babylon renounced communion with her in the things of God because of the evills attending of them lest they should be defiled As on the other side they have drawn nigh to God in the purity of his wayes and worship as those did that left Israel in the time of their Apostacie and came to the Lord and his pure worship in Judah But thus to doe namely to leave a Church and Ordinances greatly polluted and defiled and to worship God together purely apart from that corrupted estate with-holding fellowship is in his dark judgement a meer Schisme alas poor dark judgement such a Schisme as he hath oft made and those of his way are full of in their own sense The holy Apostles and beleeving Jewes were Schismaticks in his account and all the Reformed Churches and Christians that have forsaken Babylon and are come out of her are all Schismaticks in his dark judgement But no marvell he so accounteth of these latter seeing by his reckoning they are not baptized Christians Truly he and those of his way by light and cleare judgements will be discerned to be even such themselves for doing as they doe Now to that latter part of this charge That it is the overthrow of all order in Religion I aske him which way it appeareth so to be sure he cannot tell for if it be well minded it will be found to be a speciall meanes of the preserving of religion decayed and a repayring of it and of reducing it to the first purity and an utter putting away all rust and defilement and therefore the Apostle giveth in charge having forewarned of the great defection of Antichrist not to begin a new but to keep the old Ordinances according Thes 2. 15. to the purity they were delivered to us J. S. his course I suppose is guilty of the overthrow of all order in Religion not onely what is of God remaining and afoot in the world but even of that also which is held forth in the Word in erecting a new Church and dispensing new Ordinances without a new Commission which never any did before After this he tells us of his learning Christ which sure is very little in regard of order as his way and course doth shew So far faith he as I have learned Christ men are to stand in their places and use all means to reclaim and reform corrupt Churches he meaneth by the word of truth Very good But what if they will not reform and all means which we can use availeth not This being done saith he so as of necessity I must leave off communion with them So as it seemeth communion may be left with a Church that is Gods because of evill and obstinacie in the same Then in such a case he thinketh for he onely giveth us his thoughts without Scripture he must disclaim them and separate from them To which I say it is but upon the condition of their non-repentance which challengeth sometime of waiting but that such a Church he ought to disclaim and separate from he holdeth First I would know whether he may do this while it remaineth a Church of Christ If he say yea then I ask him What is become of that which in his dark judgement was a meer Schisme But if he say nay not till the Church ceases to be Truly that will be a very hard matter for him to
immediatly from God that sent him to prepare the way of his Son Secondly concerning Iohn the Scripture testifieth That he was a Prophet and more then a Prophet But how or what or whether or Matth. 11. 9. no concerning his particular Baptisme it is altogether silent It is not for men to be over wise or meddle above what is written but let the body of Moses alone Last of all I will put it upon this Issue In the judgement of indifferent men whether they think it will follow that because Abraham and Iohn Baptist were the first beginners and actors in Circumcision and Baptisme by vertue of speciall Commission to them personally that therefore it was lawfull of old in case of Circumcision for any of the heathen to have also circumcised themselves and families or in the case of Baptisme for others at that time by vertue of his example to have baptized also as he did without any Commission at all for if in those times it was not lawfull for them so to do but of necessity they must go as our Lord did to the Baptist then in as much as length of time can give no warrant to a thing not warrantable at the first I conceive it will be given and concluded that Instance is invalide and of no force to warrant a person to baptize himself or others being himself unbaptized Which he in the case of Baptisme saith was written for our learning and teacheth us what to do upon the like occasion To which I say supposing the occasion he here speaketh of is not that of necessitie that hath no law but leaveth men at liberty to do the best they can which is the last refuge of I. S. and those of his way There is I say no such occasion as in the case of Iohn there being no Scripture to be fulfilled by sending a messenger before to prepare Christs Matth. 3. 3. way There is no such occasion for that there is no new Commission nor any new Ordinances to be set on foot Again there is no such occasion for that there is baptized persons in the world to repair unto that as Christ our Lord went to Iohn so we might go to them Besides what is not written cannot be for our learning Now it is not written when or where or by whom or whether at all Iohn was baptized so as none of any such things can be for our learning unlesse we will go beyond our Lesson But this is written that he was sent of God and had speciall Commission to do what he did that we might learn not to run before we be sent but to be obedient in going when we are bidden and doing as we are commanded as he did Further I. S. saith for the continuance of the Church from Christs words The gates of hell shall not prevail against it Here by the way I take notice that he hath laid aside his succession and personall succession and speaks now plain English namely the continuation of the Church Matth. 16. 18. Now what saith he to this He confesseth the same But in so doing he overthroweth his new way and course for if the Church continue and hath continued what need is there of new beginning and baptizing by persons unbaptized surely none at all And therefore he maketh his acknowledgement with a proviso that is by a distinction that indeed is either a non-sense or else a flat deniall The distinction is thus That this Church is to be considered in her instituted State as it lieth in the Scriptures in the rules of the foundation See what expressions are here Instituted State Rules of foundation Lying in the Scripture as much and no more then this according to the pattern set forth in the Word Or otherwise in the second place in her Constitation or constituted form in her visible Order As much as if he had said in her outward being Now of the pattern is not our question for as the pattern of the Temple was one thing and the Temple built or to be built was another thing so it is here But see what J. S. saith having made such a distinction as before to darken the truth Thus he saith Against the first hell gates never prevailed This pattern standing sure in the Scriptures as of old the pattern of the Temple might remaine when the Temple was destroyed But against the Church it self which is the second part of his distinction it hath prevailed So the summe is as much as if he had said hell gates never prevailed against the Scriptures but against the Church built according to the Scriptures it hath Now let any man excuse the irrationalnesse of I. S. if he can thus to grant in shew and deny in substance and truth with one breath the continuation of the Church according to the Word and ptomise of Christ made to the Church and not to the Scriptures And I say unto thee thou art Peter and upon this rocke Mat. 16. 18. to wit himseif I will build my Church and the gates of hell shall not prevaile against it to destroy it For why it was built on a sure foundation not to be moved for ever Now this Church the continuation whereof he granted before having deceived himself and his Reader by a groundlesse distinction he denieth the continuation now and saith Hell gates hath prevailed often against it But whence is it that he is thus contrary and I and no Saith he For the Church hath been often in her outward order scattered through persecution and the like Sure this is a very weighty reason thus to over power a man what if the Church hath bin scattered through persecution must it then follow a destroying by hell gates though the Church hath been greatly scattered through persecution yet she continued her being and was so far from being by hell gates prevailed against as that they overcame by suffering Rom. 8. the gates of hell and were more then conquerers The blood of the Martyrs being the seed of the Church and the Church the more oppressed the more growing and increasing J. S. saith in this sense of being scattered she is said to be overcome To which I say that this is not the sense of Mat. 16. 18. nay it is against the sense of the Scripture that by afflictions the Church should be overcome when as in all afflictions the Church hath been more then conquerers through Christ that loved her I. S. citeth two or three places Dan. 7. Rev. 12. Act. 8. 1. For that in Daniel it is utterly against his sense for speaing of the Kingdome of Christ his Church it saith it shall not be destroyed vers 14. 27. As for that Rev. 12. it plainly declareth the prevailing of the Church and not her being overcome or destroyed and that they overcame by the blood of the Lambe and that the Dragon was cast out It indeed speaketh of the womans fleeing into the Rev. 12. wildernesse but there she
and his pure service as those of the ten Tribes that went from Israel to Judah had other Priests and Ministers of the Law and service of God and a pure way of serving of God onely that of circumcision they would continue that though according to his conceit in the case of Baptisme it came from the two Calves What would he have said or thought of it in this case I would faine know If they did well it is good for us to imitate them in a like case 2. I say as before more fully I have shewed that this Church and Ordinances are but new in regard of purity the other being corrupt so all this he calleth new is not like their new raising of the Church and Ordinances as if those before had lost their being and were not at all In this their case which he so excepteth against there is expresse warrant 2 Thes 2. 15. keep the Ordinances as they were delivered unto you that is purely 3. Baptized persons in the case of their returne from idollwayes and Apostacie to the pure service of God are to look after Baptisme no otherwise then circumcised Jewes did in the like case when they returned unto the Lord Ezek. 44. 9. They were not to circumcise themselves or be circumcised again yet the Heather comming along with them they must be circumcised In like manner Gods people comming out of Babylon according to the call of God Rev. 18. 4. are not required to be again baptized though the Jewes and other Heathen that imbrace the faith of Christ are required to doe it which I would wish I. S. and those of his way to consider of 4. For the continuation of the Church and Baptisme the outward qualification of the matter the Scriptures fully give witnesse unto as before is shewed so as is no need of beginning them a new in any sense unlesse of purity but other Ordinances are by negligence laid by and out of use something in the room of them and so are by the Church to be restored to their places when the Church is purged and made pure Lastly for this of Baptisme comming through the hands of Pope Jone and from the man of sin It is a false and scandalous reproach it cometh no more through the hands of Pope Jone and the man of sin then the holy Scriptures did or then Circumcision did through the hands of the two Galves of old J. S. may be ashamed so to reproch Gods holy Ordinance by his good pleasure preserved to this day I would wish him to call to mind his complaint story before And now in regard he is up with Pope Ione again to disgrace the truth and those that stand for it whereby to make persons afraid and do they know not what which after they undo again and so Gal. 2. 18. make themselves every way trespassers by destroying what they before built I will note some particulars wherein those of his way shake hands with Pope Ioane and the man of sin and leave the Reader to judge who may be most justly taxed for affinity with Pope Jone the reformed or separated Churches or those of the new way of Baptisme First those of that way of Baptisme hold generall or universall redemption with the man of sin and Pope Jone 2. Free-will 3. Falling from grace 4. Conditionall Election that men may be saved if they will themselves 5. They hold an universall Church and generall ministery with power universall 6. That Antichrist is not yet come and shall be a particular man and shall continue but three years c. 7. They hold with Pope Jone and accordingly censure all the reformed and separated Churches for meer Schismaticks 8. They hold with Pope Jone dipping in Baptisme I do not say that J. S. or all of that way hold all these particulars but this I am sure that all these are held by persons in that way in practice they also shake hands for as the man of sin hath made a Church so they also have made a Church onely the man of sin and Pope Jone have succeeded better in their work for they have made a Church of a large structure whereas theirs is yet but a little Terret of the like nature 2. As Pope Joane hath sent out her messengers to preach and baptize namely the Friers and others the Moors and Indians so in like manner these send out their messengers to preach and baptize also 3. As Pope Jone and the man of sin give authority to their instruments and ministers to act things without the cognizance of the Scriptures so in like kinde do they namely authorizing an unbaptized person to baptize others In this and one thing more they exceed in irrationalnesse Pope Ione to wit of giving mission to unbaptized persons to baptize 2. In Baptizing them that were before baptized I will forbear to adde other particulars Now let them shew if they can any such doctrines held or courses taken by the separated or rightly reformed Churches in way of affinity with Pope Jone and the man of sin I say no more but leave the Reader to judge In the end of this Sexion he uttereth divers high Notions so undigested unsound and contradictorie as a man that should weigh them could not but wonder First he saith that we are to know that the truth depends not upon Churches nor any mortall creature but onely upon the immortall God who by his Word and Spirit reveals the same when and to whom he pleases This is the first of his wonderfull Notions which we are to know that the truth of Ordinances and right serving God of which is our question depends not upon Churches Where then is J. S. his orderly way he proposed according to God by the Church and her assignement of one or two of her members to begin Baptisme being lost c. Secondly This that he would have us to know is directly contrary to that which God teacheth us to know in his Word 1 Tim. 3. 15. The Church of the living God God himself saith is the pillar and ground of truth that is of Religion and divine Ordinances as we said before Thirdly If I. S. say he do not mean truth of Ordinances truly he is then beside the matter in hand deceiving and being deceived Fourthly If he mean as in the former is specied with whom then doth he contend Do not all confesse the truth as Doctrinall to have God for the Authour of it and to depend on him What high words doth he here use to amaze the Reader as The truth depends not upon any mortall man Who ever held so But upon the Immortall God Who ever held otherwise But this immortall God reveales the same by his Word and Spirit What doth God reveal new Ordinances of Religion by his Word and Spirit Sure this is some dark non-sense He questionlesse meaneth some other thing What Revelation he herein intendeth is not hard to guesse however he is beside the