Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	faith_n	ground_n	pillar_n	2,365	5	9.9071	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A73418	Roger Widdringtons last reioynder to Mr. Thomas Fitz-Herberts Reply concerning the oath of allegiance, and the Popes power to depose princes wherein all his arguments, taken from the lawes of God, in the Old and New Testament, of nature, of nations, from the canon and ciuill law, and from the Popes breues, condemning the oath, and the cardinalls decree, forbidding two of Widdringtons bookes are answered : also many replies and instances of Cardinall Bellarmine in his Schulckenius, and of Leonard Lessius in his Singleton are confuted, and diuers cunning shifts of Cardinall Peron are discouered.	Preston, Thomas, 1563-1640.	1619 (1619)	STC 25599; ESTC S5197	680,529	682

the way to saluation and yet their sheep are not alwaies bound to heare and follow their voyce or call to beleeue with Catholike faith all their doctrine or to obey all their commandements for that their definitions are not certaine and infallible neither are they alwaies so assisted by the holy Ghost that they cannot command vnlawfull things So that albeit the Pope be our supreame spirituall Pastour Superiour and Iudge yet wee are not bound to obey him but in lawfull things and to which his authoritie doth extend 90 And if you aske againe to whom shall it belong to iudge whether the Popes definitions or doctrine be true or false or his commandements conforme to the law of God or no or that he exceed the authority and commission which Christ hath granted him or no I answere that if wee speake of Iudgement as it is an act of Iustice or of a Iudge doing iustice supposeth in him a superiority authority ouer the person whom he iudgeth which the Diuines call iudicium potestatis a iudgement of authority then according to the Diuines of Rome only God can iudge the Popes actions except in case of heresie or of schisme when more then one contend to be Pope for in these cases they graunt that a generall Councell may iudge the Pope But according to the Diuines of Paris not onely in the aforesaid cases but also in many others a Generall Councell whom they grant to be superiour to the Pope may by way of authority iudge the Popes actions and declare determine and define whether his definitions and commandements be conforme to the word and law of God or no. But if wee take iudgement S. Thom. prima secūda q. 93 ar 2. secunda secundae q. 51. ar 3. q. 60. ar 1. as it is an act of the vnderstanding and is commonly called by the Philosophers the second act or operation thereof and signifieth a right discerning or determination of the vnderstanding betwixt truth falshood good and euill in euery matter whether it be speculatiue or practicall and consisteth in the apprehension of a thing as it is in it selfe which the Diuines call iudicium discretionis a iudgement of discretion then euery learned man may iudge and discerne whether the Popes definitions or doctrine be true or false and whether his commandements bee conforme to the law of God or no neyther is that vulgar saying None can iudge his superiours actions to be vnderstood of this iudgement but of the former for this inward and priuate iudgement is the guide of euery mans conscience by which for that it is the rule of all morall actions he must iudge and discerne all his thoughts words and deeds actions and omissions 91 Seeing therefore it is a controuersie among learned Catholikes whether the Pope can erre in his definitions if hee define without a generall Councell and consequently they cannot be infallible grounds of Catholike faith it is euident that whensoeuer the Pope defineth any doctrine to be of faith which in very deed is Catholike doctrine and of faith we must not beleeue with Catholike faith that doctrin to be Catholike and of faith because the Pope hath defined the same for this reason and ground is as I haue said vncertaine and fallible but because the Catholike Church 1. Tim. 3. which onely is the infallible propounder of Catholike faith and according to the Apostle the pillar and ground of truth hath approued the same to be Catholike and of faith And thus much concerning the Popes definitions and decrees in points of faith and which are to be beleeued with Catholike faith 92 Now concerning manners and things commanded to bee done or not to be done we must carefully distinguish betwixt declaratiue and constitutiue precepts or commandements for in constitutiue commandements which doe make the thing which they forbid to be vnlawfull and doe not suppose it to be otherwise vnlawfull and forbidden by some former law first if the Pope command a thing which is manifestly lawfull and subiect to his commanding power wee are bound to obey but with this caueat or prouiso if by obeying we are not like to incurre any probable danger of some great temporall harme for that no Ecclesiasticall law setting aside scandall or contempt which are forbidden by the law of God and nature doth seldome or neuer binde with any great temporall losse as I obserued elsewhere u In Disp Theol. cap. 10. § 2. nu 41. out of the common doctrine of Catholike Diuines Secondly if the Pope perchance commaund a thing which is manifestly vnlawfull then we are bound not to obey according to that saying of S. Peter God must be obeyed ●ather then men Acts cap. 5. 93 Thirdly if it be doubtfull whether the thing which the Pope commandeth be vnlawfull or whether he hath authority to command that thing or no In the discouery of D. Schulckenius ca●umnies calum 15 nu 12. seq Sot de deteg secret memb 3. q. 2. then as I obserued elsewhere according to the doctrine of many learned Diuines as Sotus Corduba Salon Sayrus and others wee must doe that wherein there is lesse danger according to that approoued maxime Of two euils the lesser is to be chosen But Sotus doth more plainely and distinctly declare the whole matter When the Superiours commandement saith hee is of a thing secure and lawfull where no danger ariseth to the publike good or to a third person in a doubtfull matter we must for the most part obey As for example my Superiour commandeth me to study or to helpe sicke persons which are actions wherein there is no danger although it be doubtfull whether hee may impose such a commandement I must obey yet I added saith he for the most part because I am not alwaies bound to obey in a doubtfull matter as if the thing be ouer burdensome or laborious to the subiect For if my Superiour commaund me a long iourney and a hard or vneasie thing and it is doubtfull whether he hath authoritie to commaund the same I am not bound forthwith to obey And a little beneath the same Sotus as I related his words more at large aboue affirmeth that when it is doubtfull whether the Superiour commandeth that which is lawfull if it be in preiudice of a third person because that third person is in possession of his credit and goods we must incline to that part where there is lesse danger For when such danger doth arise to a third person if the subiect be doubtfull he doth not against obedience if hee demand of his Prelate a reason of his commaundement propounding humbly the reasons of his doubt Thus Sotus And by this the Reader may cleerely vnderstand the true sense and meaning of that vulgar maxime In doubts wee must obey our Superiour and stand to his iudgement 94 And as concerning declaratiue precepts which doe not make the thing which they forbid to be vnlawfull but doe onely declare

and knowledge of men For if wee take certaintie as it is in the thing it selfe which is rather to bee called necessitie there is nothing that is past which is not certaine or rather necessarily true So that all the power and authoritie which Christ hath giuen to S. Peter and consequently to the Pope as hee is Saint Peters Successour is most certaine in it selfe that is most true and necessarie yet all the power in particular which Christ hath giuen to Saint Peter and the Pope is not certaine quoad nos that is to the vnderstanding and knowledge of the faithfull nor of the Popes themselues 34 Secondly whereas Mr. Fitzherbert affirmeth that albeit the reason which mooued some Popes to grant that licence to Priests seemed erroneous to some learned men yet it was not therefore vncertaine to the Popes that gaue it and againe It is euident saith he that many things may seeme vncertaine to some learned men and yet bee most certaine hee doth not say may seeme to be most certaine to the Sea Apostolike insinuating thereby that those Popes who gaue such licences did not only thinke or perswade themselues that they did certainely know but also that they did in very deede certainely knowe which is a farre different thing that they had authoritie giuen them from Christ to doe the same I would gladly learne of Fa. Lessius from whom Mr. Fitzherbert hath taken this assertion by what meanes those Popes came to such a certaine knowledge of things reuealed by Christ our Sauiour whereof other men and perhaps farre more learned then those Popes were in all sorts of learning both diuine and humane were so ignorant vncertaine and doubtfull For my owne part I doe not know by what way any man whatsoeuer hee bee can haue a certaine knowledge which is truely certaine and not onely imagined or thought to bee certaine of things supernaturall and reuealed by GOD but by diuine reuelation and this must bee either a priuate reuelation whereby God reuealeth himselfe to the priuate soule or spirit of a man as hee did in the old Law to the Patriarchs and Prophets and in the New to the Apostles and to diuers other holy men or else it must bee a publike reuelation knowne and approoued so to bee by the publike declaration or acceptance of the Church for the publike definitions of Popes without the approbation of a generall Councell or generall acceptance of the Church doe still remaine vncertaine seeing that it is as yet vncertaine and disputable among learned Catholikes whether the Pope hath authoritie to define certainely and infallibly that this or that thing which is in controuersie among famous and learned Catholike Diuines hath beene reuealed by God or no. 35 If therefore when Mr. Fitzherbert taxing mee most ignorantly of ridiculous absurditie doeth so confidently affirme it to bee euident that many things may seeme vncertaine to some learned men and yet bee most certaine to the Sea Apostolike his meaning bee that the Sea Apostolike hath this certaine knowledge by publike reuelation or by some necessarie consequence which is euidently deduced from publike reuelation I cannot possibly see how this can bee true for that publike reuelations and those things which are euidently deduced from publike reuelations are not proper onely to the Pope but are common also to other learned men and therefore also other learned men who are as skilfull and perchance farre more skilfull in the knowledge of the holy Scriptures and of publike reuelations traditions definitions declarations and of the generall consent and acceptance of the Church then those Popes are may haue as certaine a knowledge of things supernaturall and reuealed by publike reuelation as those Popes either haue or morally can haue 36 But if hee meane that the Sea Apostolike hath that certaintie of knowledge touching things reuealed by priuate reuelations or secret instincts and inspirations any learned man may plainely see that this is spoken without sufficient ground seeing that Christ our Sauiour hath not promised an infallibilitie of trueth to the priuate knowledge of any Pope or of the Prelates of the Church assembled together in a Generall Councell but onely to their Decrees and those not all but to such only which are propounded as of faith Neither also is it certaine that Christ hath promised an infallibilitie of truth so much as to the Popes publike definitions and decrees which are propounded as of faith if hee define without a Generall Councell and much lesse to his priuate knowledge and iudgement as it is manifest by the decrees of Pope Nicholas the first and of Pope Celestine the third whereof the first declared q De cons dist 4 can A quodam Iudaeo that Baptisme giuen in the name of Christ without expressing the three persons of the Trinitie is valid and of force and the second r Quondam in cap. Laudabilem de conuers coniugat that Marriage is so dissolued by heresie that the partie whose consort is fallen into heresie may lawfully marry another which doctrine is now condemned in the Councell of Trent and also by Pope Iohn the 22. who publikely taught Å¿ See Adrian Papa in q. 2. de Confirm circa finem Castro lib. 3. contra haeres verbo Beatitudo haer 62. Bell. l. 4. de Ro. Pont. c. 14 and if hee had not beene preuented by death was resolued to define that the soules of the Blessed should not see God before the Resurrection and by Pope Boniface the eight who in a letter to Philip le Bell King of France affirmed t See Nicol. Vignerius ad an 1300. Ioan. Tilius ad ann 1302. that he accounted them for heretikes who did not beleeue that the said King of France was not subiect to him in spiritualls and temporalls And as for these priuate reuelations they may also bee common to other vertuous and holy men as well as to Popes and with the same facilitie and vpon the same grounds wee may attribute priuate reuelations and certaintie of priuate knowledge as well to the one as to the other 37 And albeit it were so that many things are certaine to the priuate vnderstanding and knowledge of some Popes which are vncertaine and seeme erroneous to other learned men will my Aduersaries therefore affirme that those learned men are bound to follow the Popes priuate iudgement and to beleeue him vpon his bare word if hee say that hee is certaine his iudgement and knowledge to bee true vntill hee make manifest to them the certaintie thereof and vpon what grounds hee is so certainely perswaded his iudgement to bee certainely true This were doubtlesse a most pernicious doctrine and the opening of a wide gappe to errours and heresies For then should the Doctours of Paris See Pope Adr. in the place aboue cited who caused Pope Iohn to recall his errour haue beleeued him when hee commanded his doctrine or rather errour to bee held by all men and induced the Vniuersitie

Fitzherbert turneth and windeth in such a running and fraudulent manner that his Reader cannot well perceiue of what imputation he meanes when he saith that if the second Breue be not sufficient to cleare his Holines of this imputation yet his third Breue must needs be aboundantly sufficient to doe it For that which I said onely is that his Holinesse by all likelihoode was not truely informed by Cardinall Bellarmine and his other Diuines of the true sense and meaning of some clauses of the Oath against which you haue seene with what fraude and falsitie my ignorant Aduersarie hath wrangled and iangled as though I had taxed his Holinesse for publishing his first Breue before he had seene or maturely weighed and pondered the Oath it selfe and all the clauses thereof and without graue and long deliberation had concerning all things contained in his Breue which how vntrue this imputation is wherewith hee chargeth me I haue alreadie shewed Now this silly man laboureth to prooue as also he insinuated before that because his Holinesse did maturely weigh and ponder the Oath and euery clause thereof before he sent hither his first Breue and did sufficiently informe himselfe of all circumstances necessarie to the publication of his Apostolicall and iudiciall sentence as well concerning the forbidding of the Oath by his first Breue as also concerning the punishing of such Priests that should take or defend the Oath to be lawfull by his third Breue sent hither two yeeres after which he could not saith my Aduersarie lawfully doe without due consideration and diligent discussion of the whole controuersie and sufficient information of all the circumstances thereof therefore his Holinesse neither was nor could all this time which was more then two yeeres be ignorant of the nature and qualitie of the Oath and that therefore he could not be ignorant but certainely knew that there are many things in the Oath flat contrary to faith and saluation as he had declared by his first Breue 32 But to omit now those words sufficient information c. and that his Holinesse did sufficiently informe himselfe c. which my Aduersarie heere diuers times repeateth which because they are equiuocall and may haue a double sense I will declare beneath it is very vntrue and contrary to the doctrine of Cardinall Bellarmine and of all other learned Diuines to say that certaine and infallible knowledge of truth is in the Pope necessarily annexed to his long graue mature and diligent consideration and discussion of any doctrine or matter vnlesse the doctrine and matter be of such a nature and the discussion thereof be done with such circumstances and in such a manner as Christ hath promised him his infallible assistance which euen according to the doctrine of Cardinall Bellarmine and Canus Christ hath not promised him in such decrees or definitions which are not directed and doe not appertaine to the whole Church as are these his Breues forbidding the Oath whereof the two first are onely directed to English Catholikes and the third onely to Mr. Birket then Arch-Priest For in customes lawes or decrees which are not common to the whole Church but are referred to priuate persons or Churches not onely the Pope but also the Church may erre and be deceiued through ignorance I say saith Canus not onely in her iudgement of facts Canus lib. 5. q. 5. conel 3. or things done as whether such a one committed such a sinne hath lost his faculties ought to be censured and such like but also in her priuate precepts and lawes themselues and the true and proper reason hereof he bringeth from the authority of Pope Innocent the third which I related also aboue q Chap. 13. nu 11. for that albeit the iudgement of God is alwaies grounded vpon truth which neither deceiueth nor is deceiued yet the iudgement of the Church is now and then led by opinion which oftentimes doth deceiue and is deceiued c. 33 Whereupon the Reader may most cleerely perceiue how vnlearnedly my ignorant Aduersarie doth inferre that because his Holinesse had a long graue and mature deliberation and consultation concerning the true sense of the Oath and of euery clause thereof and did send hither his third Breue for punishing those Priests that should take or defend the same therefore he could not be ignorant of the true sense of euery clause thereof but must certainly and infallibly know that many things are therein contained flat contrary to faith and saluation as he by his first Breue had declared as though his sentence and iudgement in Decrees which are directed onely to priuate persons or Churches should be alwaies grounded vpon truth which neither can deceiue nor be deceiued and that he cannot erre through ignorance or be led by opinion which oftentimes doth deceiue is deceiued in his priuate lawes decrees which are not common to the whole Church but doe belong to priuate men Bishops or Churches and that therefore those Priests whom he bindeth or punisheth by his Censure and sentence may not be free before God and those other Priests whom he doth not Censure may not deserue punishment in the sight of God according to that which Pope Innocent in the end of his aforesaid reason did affirme 34 But those words which Mr. Fitzherbert often repeateth that his Holinesse after so long and graue deliberation had concerning all things contained in his first Breue among which the principall was that many things are contained in the Oath which are manifestly repugnant to faith and saluation was sufficiently informed of the whole matter are very equiuocall and may haue a double sense For first these words may signifie that his Holinesse after so long and graue deliberation was sufficiently informed to excuse him from sinne for doing what hee did and for sending hither his Breues to forbid the Oath and to punish those Priests that should take the Oath or teach it to be lawfull and with this point for that it little importeth our present question whether the Oath not onely in the Popes opinion and conscience but also really truely and certainely containeth in it many things flat contrary to faith and saluation or no and for that it is a thing secret and vnknowne to me I will not inter meddle but leaue it to the conscience of his Holinesse and to the iudgement of God who searcheth the hearts and reines of men Yet this I dare boldly say that in my iudgement his Holinesse might haue beene more sufficiently informed of the whole matter if hee had consulted this question concerning the certainty of his authority to depose Princes and whether his spirituall Supremacie or any other doctrine of faith or manners necessarie to saluation is denyed in the Oath not onely with his owne Diuines who are knowne to maintaine with such violence both his authority in temporals ouer temporall Princes which is the principall marke at which the Oath doth aime and his spirituall authority