Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	doctrine_n	spirit_n	word_n	4,112	5	4.1321	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A89859	Weaknes above wickednes, and truth above subtilty. Which is the Quakers defence against the boaster and his deceitfull slanders. Clearly seen in an answer to a book called Quakers quaking; devised by Jeremiah Ive's against the dispised contemptible people trampled on by the world, and scorned by the scorners. In which the deceits are turned into the deceivers bosome, and the truth cleared from the accuser. In much plainesse, that the simple may see and perceive, and come to be gathered to the Lamb, from amongst the armies of the wicked, who have now set themselves against the Lord, and sees it not. Also some queries to Jeremy Ive's touching his false doctrine and deceits. / by one who is called, James Nayler.	Naylor, James, 1617?-1660.	1656 (1656)	Wing N327; ESTC R207303	22,439	32

WEAKNES above WICKEDNES AND TRVTH above SVBTILTY Which is the Quakers Defence against the Boaster and his deceitfull slanders Clearly seen in an ANSWER to a BOOK called QVAKERS QVAKING Devised by Jeremiah Ive's against the dispised contemptible people trampled on by the world and scorned by the scorners In which the deceits are turned into the deceivers bosome and the truth cleared from the accuser In much plainnesse that the simple may see and perceive and come to be gathered to the Lamb from amongst the Armies of the wicked who have now set themselves against the Lord and sees it not Also some Queries to Jeremy Ive's touching his false Doctrine and Deceits By one who is called JAMES NAYLER LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black-spread-Eagle near the West end of Pauls 1656. WEAKNESSE ABOVE WICKEDNESSE AND Truth ABOVE Subtilty Which is the Quakers Defence against the Boaster and his deceitfull slanders Clearly seen in an ANSVVER to a Book called Quakers Quaking Devised by Jeremy Ive's against the dispised contemptible people trampled on by the world and scorned by the scorners WELL knew the Apostle what he said when he desired the Saints prayers that he might be delivered from Men without faith for he well knew them above all others to be the most unreasonable And the same is seen in thee Jeremy Ive's who having denyed the faith of God which is the gift of God in his Saints and set up a faith of thine own which is not the gift of God and therein hath set up in thy vaine Phylosophy and deceitfull craft wherewithall thou art become so unreasonable as not only to use thy crafty reason in broaching deceitful blasphemous doctrins denying the faith of God once received of the Saints contending against it not to be the gift of God as thou didst at Gerrard Roberts before many witnesses But also using thy craft to reason against the truth of God manifest in his Saints the Light of the world manifest in the world in which all the world may be a witness against thee yea against the plaine expresse words of the Scripture as will appear in this thy Book yea against Christ himselfe who is that Spirit whereby to set up another for judgement as by thy reasoning at Gerrard Roberts before many people where thou said that a man may understand the Scriptures without the Spirit of God and so try the Spirits and went about to prove it with thy cursed art which thing to affirme in plainnesse and truth is to deny the Spirit of Christ for to be the Teacher Judger and Tryer of all Spirits and to set up the spirit of the Devill in its stead for he that tryeth and judgeth without the Spirit of God doth it with the spirit of Satan and with that Spirit did the Scribes and Pharisees who denyed the gift of God as thou dost understand the Scriptures and try the Spirit of Jesus and Judged him to be a Devill and a Deceiver as thou dost such in whom he is manifest for which end thou hast mustered up this heap of filth and lies in thy Book to cast upon the truth and make it odious and the greatest strength thou hast in this thy work is thy vaine Phylosophy and craft with which thou reasons against the Truth both in the Saints now manifest and against the plaine Scriptures Which things may so plainly be seen to be but a heap of subtilty where the least honesty may judge thereof so that there is little danger of its doing any hurt where the least measure of innocency is minded so I shall not much trouble my selfe in the answering every particular of thy vaine stories slanders and lies onely some few I shall speak too as may serve to discover the rest what root they are of Thou commends thy Work to thy Brethren whom thou calls the Churches of Christ called to be faithfull c. And thou sayes thou knowes none to whom thy work will be more welcome I say if they be Brethren of thy Faith who with thee have denyed the Faith of Christ and set up a Faith of their own then it is like that thy work should be most welcome unto such whose faith is to believe lyes for the Devills Faith is most fit to receive and welcome the Devills work And thou tells of raising the siege laid by the Adversaries to your Faith and order I say fitly are these two put together being neither the Faith nor order of the Saints nor that which the Scripture will own neither your faith nor practice And he that is a friend of God must be an Enemy of that which is not the gift of God and that which is not the gift of God being gotten by the Devill That we deny First Thou begins about our Quaking whether we may be so called or no about which I shall not contend what Name we receive from the world whether they call us that which is true or that which is not true the thing to me I passe by onely I mind thee of a lye thou tellest because thou seems to promise repentance being better inform'd that is that we foame at the mouth in our Tremblings in our meetings but to them that are blind thou seems to prove it before thou leave it and that is because it was cast upon us in the Westmorland Priests Petition and we did not deny it though we denyed some other things in that Petition which proofe is but thus much that if I leave any of thy lies undenyed which thou hast heaped up in this thy Book the next of thy Bretheren that comes after thee to accuse us may make it a proofe that we are guilty thereof and so the lyar proves to the lyar whilst the Innocent are silent And with such proofes as this hast thou proved many of thy slanders in thy Book which might as clearly be shewed was it worth the while to follow thee into all thy deceits but a few may serve to lead the wise to see the rest The next thing thou accusest is our Doctrine and thou confessest we preach somewhat that is true yet sayest thou in this they are but the greater Deceivers And finding nothing of the truth we preach thou darest accuse thou makes a lye of thine own to accuse us with that is that we will allow of nothing to be called Gods Word but Christ and having cast this upon us thou goes about to disprove it and so disproves thy own lye and not our Doctrine so it being thine own work I shall leave it to thee The next thing thou charges upon us is that we say the Scripture may not be called the word of God which is false also as in thy sence for we own the Scripture where it is given to any by the inspiration of God to be the word to such but to others who have it not of God they may read the letter and not hear the word and have a Bible and be

called a lye but not proved one and time will prove it otherwise The fifth lye is that James Naylor in a written Paper calls thee shamelesse Man for tempting him to deny the Lord. The sixth lye is that James Naylor in the same Paper said if he had come in his own name thou wouldst have received him as was confessed by thee To both which I answer as many can witnesse with me at the dispute which occasioned the Letter when I denyed thy faith to be the the faith of God or any of his Saints and proffered to prove it so before all the people if thou would put it upon tryall thou denyed my request unlesse I would deny my Call from God and say I was called some other way or else there work a miracle and then thou wouldst put thy faith on tryall according to my request which if this was not to tempt me to deny the Lord and his Call to obtaine a dispute wherein I could not be received while I confessed to come in the Name of God which another way in my own name and will thou proffered to receive me And this being done before many witnesses was the occasion of these words in my Letter as followeth O Shameless man was ever such a thing demanded by any child of God to tempt one to deny the Lord yea the Heathen would blush at such a thing to send for one to dispute and then to deny to come t otryall with that they call the Rule and touchstone unlesse they whom they did dispute with would deny their God first Hast not thou proved thy selfe worse then any that ever disputed with the Apostles or any of the Servants of God that ever he sent forth Dost thou professe the Scriptures and is it become such an odious thing to thee to come in the name of God that for that very thing thou drust not put thy Faith upon tryall by Scripture nor could receive me but if I would come in my own name thou would as thou plainly confessed that if I would say I was not sent of God thou would put thy Faith upon tryall c. Now the things being true before related as many can witnesse where the lye is in these words let honesty judge and let any mind the wicked one how he hath perverted my words to slander me with saying that I said if I had come in my own name he would have received me as saith he I said he did plainly confesse and leaves out the rest which words as I writ them runs thus as thou plainly confessed That if I would say I was not sent of God then thou would put thy Faith on tryall The truth of which words will be witnessed by many that heard that thou pretended that very thing to hinder the tryall of thy faith because of my coming in the name of God And further thou added that if I was one sent of God it was to no purpose to put thy faith on tryall with me for I would overturne all thy proofes or words to that purpose as may be testified by many witnesses So the lyes be to thy selfe and on thy head till thou repent thereof but peace and truth to him that loves it Thy seventh lie is that while one ran from Bull Mouth to thy house for the Paper I slipt away which is a most abominable falshood as hundreds can witnesse that I went not away till the meeting broke up neither knew I of any such thing as the Letter fetching neither have I yet run from your filthy lyes envy much les shall I run from the truths written with my own hand which I here have owned and clearly proved to be truth thee to be the lyar and and shall further doe it if to the truth it may be service able And when thou hast done thou sayest these a are but a few of those Legions of Lyes that are in our writings and preachings when the Lyes are thy own raised by that Spirit of Insidelity who having denyed the Faith of Christ would turne his truth into a lye and was thou not impudent in thy wickednesse thou might be ashamed of thy birth thou hast brought forth who hath been hunting for accusations against the truth but canst find none and so runs to a sort of hurling Priests and their false accusations thou preachest for Truths being of the same nature with them their reports agree most with thy spirit and thy foundation being deceit thy work falls upon thy own head Then thou makes a boast of something that thou wouldst prove the first thing is the writings of the Scripture to be the word of God this thou wouldst prove from Mark 7. to where Christ saith They that doe not honour their father and mother maketh the word of God of none effect saying that he faith their making this written Law of none effect which is false for his words are Making the word of God of none effect through your traditions but thou that wouldst make the letter of that command the word which was written in stone if thou readest 2 Cor. 3. thou mighst find the Apostle denies that or to be any Minister of it and saith that ministration is done away and owns the ministration of the Spirit and not of the letter so thou hast lost thy word if the Apostle saith true and a new proofe thou must seek to prove the letter the word Another proofe thou brings is from Jer. 36. where thou wouldst prove that the letter of that Role is the word of God which Baruck read so by thy proofe the word of God may be burnt if that Role be it and so thy word of God is lost that which was written in that Role not so much as being in the Bible and with such confused stuffe as this thou makest thy proofes which the least of wisdome would be ashamed of If that engraven in stone be the word and that in Baruks role the word and both wanting the letter of the one and the matter of the other then there is two of the words lost and how thou wilt prove that which is lost to be the word now wisdome may judge who knowes the word of the Lord that endures for ever what ever becomes of the letter but a literall ministration suits best with thy made faith how should that faith which comes not from God believe the living word but like thy fore-fathers the Jews who were deaf and blind as thou art who could read the Scriptures but the word of God had no place in them who could heare Christ speak literally with their carnall ears but could not hear his word Thy next proofe is as confused as the rest thou sayest thou would prove the Scriptures to be the word of God out of our own mouths and yet thy accusation against us is that we deny the Scriptures to be the word what conjuration is this that thou art about who canst prove

excluded Thy thirteenth errour is that James Nayler said that none can come unto God or Christ but who come to perfection whereby it seems thou denies God or Christ to be perfection for be they granted to be perfection then none can come to them but they come to perfection But how blinde thou art who calls this an Errour is easily seen thy faith and thy doctrine who preaches against perfection but the Ministers of Christ preached to present every man perfect which thou preaches gainst Eph. 4. 11 12 13. Col. 1. 28. So we rather chuse the Apostles doctrine which standing in the faith of God which believes perfection though by the Infidells it be called Errour then imbrace a doctrine of Devills that doth not believe perfection neither was there ever any of the children of God in thy work pleading against perfection and for sin dwelling in them Thy fourteenth Errour is that I say that at all seasons whensoever the Saints either eat or drink they were to have Communion with the body and blood of Christ in their eating and drinking I say this must needs be counted an Error with the belly Gods of the world who deny the faith of Christ and so know no word in them to sanctifie the Creature such is not like to have Communion with Christ but with the lust who serve their own bellies who are at the table of Devills are not like to have Communion with the Lord but are observers of times and carnall things and therefore to such it must needs be counted an Errour so often as they eat and drink thereof to doe it in remembrance of him till he come if this be received for a truth the Devill knows there is no place for the Lust and so would hold it for an errour that he might feed without fear Thy fifteenth Errour is that James Parnell denyed all Baptismes but that of the holy Ghost so that to own the Baptism of Christ and to deny all else with thee is counted an errour but did not the Apostle erre also who said we are all baptized into one body by one Spirit and witnessed one faith and one baptisme and said he was not sent to baptize and this he witnessed who had the faith of Christ which thy faith counts an Errour And thou goes about to prove your water by questions and crooked consequences as from Circumcision and the like but cannot find one Scripture that doth command it with water after Christ sufferings or otherwise then Johns ministry wherein all may see your foundation who say the Scripture is your Rule but cannot find one plaine Scripture for that which you so highly worship and would impose upon all as a matter of salvation but must flye to your consequences to hold up that which you would make people believe is an everlasting Ordinance for which you can shew no command neither from Letter nor Spirit Moses in all his house left his Ordinances upon better grounds then consequences and meanings and that he which is much more faithfull should come short is not believed by those that know him but suppose that any doe yet own that forme of Baptisme used by the Disciples in John Ministration with that they must deny your tradition which misseth theirs both in Call Manners and Find as I have often proved for he that faith the Letter is his rule must not misse it in any thing for it they break it in one he is guilty of all much more you that misse in the maine Thy sixteenth errour is that we preach that every Man in the world hath a light within him and yet one of us thou sayest asked a Minister of the Nation whether he had that light which doth enlighten every one that comes into the world so that to ask a question which is a known Truth to prove the party asked with thee must be an Errour and this thou hoyseth up with great swelling words as though it were the greatest Errour that ever was in the world and sayes herein we are the sad spectacle of Gods spirituall judgements that ever any age hath heard of and many such loud exclamations against us for this great Errour But what thinks thou of Christ who askt the Disciples whom they said he was and yet knew they had this light in them which revealed him to be the Son of God hadst thou then lived and heard it he should not have escaped thy censure besides many other questions that he asked well known to him before the asking of them And thou goes on heaping up a deal of confusion and accuses some body but names not who sor saying that they might as well have burt the Scripture as his writing being given forth by the same Spirit the Scriptures were and by this thou sayest all that thou hast said is justified to which I say the works of the Spirit are known to be the same in their severall measures as ever they was neither is it to be more undervalued then formerly but how that Man saying so if any such there was doth justifie all thy lyes and false accusations cast upon us is a slender proof yet if we will believe thee it justifies all Thy seaventeenth Errour is thy lye where thou sayes we study and devise deceitfull tearmes that look with two faces like the Oracles of the Heathen Gods And the substance of this slander is because that Farnsworth when he was charged to say that Paul was not converted when he spoke those words in the 7 of the Romans he denyes that he doth affirme any such thing and this is counted a great Errour for sayes thou it was a negative as though it was not an affirmative to affirme there is not such a thing as well as to affirme there is such a thing and this thou aggravates as a great offence whereby thou shews in plainnesse to all that are honest that thou canst find nothing of matter against us therefore thy mischievous minde having a mind to slander hath the thing to make out of thine own bosome wherewithall to doe it Thy eighteenth Errour is that which thou call our lying First in that we say we are perfect and this is a lie of thy own and shall rest upon thy head till thou prove we have so said The second is that we say we are immediately sent of God which is a truth in them who are so sent so to say and the lie is thine own till thou prove the contrary The third lie is that one Fox said the world did not know his Name and yet after saith known by the Name of George Fox I say the Saints who have over come have a new name which none knows but he that hath it yet all the knowledge the men have of them is by a carnall name and this is true and witnessed onely the lye is in thy own ignorance The fourth lye is that Edward Burrough said his Book was sealed with the Spirit and this is

must wait for another to perform to which thou art an enemy in thy Book for that which leads to tell a lie doth not lead to repent of it That is he wherewith thou a long time hast been a Sayer and not a Doer And if to the light of Christ in thy conscience thou doe not turn which shewes thee this thy wickednesse by it to be led to repentance to the Pit thou wilt goe in this thy wickednesse notwithstanding thy fained Promise So the many lies and false accusations which doth not so much strike at the truth I passe by as not willing to multiply words to clear that which our practise proves innocent in all places through the Nation where the light is followed and either that must clear us or words will not so let the Lord who is our life plead for us Onely some few Queries I shall Propound to lay open Truth and error to which if thou be as ready to answer in simplicity as thou hast been to slander in subtilty that which lies hid may sooner be brought to light The Queries are as followeth I. WHose Spirit is that which men understands the Scriptures with and tryes Spirits with who are without the Spirit of God seeing thou affirms that a man may understand Scriptures and try Spirits without the Spirit of God and whether that triall be not it which condemns the just or hath God set up such a tryer to judge yea or no II. Seeing thou confesseth Christ to be the true light and that he lighteth every man that cometh into the world but denyes that light to be within shew in plainnesse where he doth enlighten every man that cometh into the world and not within and how they come by it and seeing thou sayest every man hath it how have they it and not within III. Seeing thou confesseth that the Heathen hath a light that reproves them of sin but not within shew where it is what it is whether the light of Christ or no and how they came by it IV. Whether that which reproves the Heathen when they sin be the same that reproves thee when thou sins and the rest who call your selves believers and whether it be in the same place and of the same nature or wherein doth it differ as to place nature and operation V. Whether your light who call your selves believers be within you or no and if within how you came by it when you were in darknesse as the moving cause and if without how doth it enlighten you and not within and where doth it abide for you that is not in you VI. Whether that light which is not within can enlighten the heart and under standing whether the Gospel be not hid to all who have their hearts and minds blinded and whether it be not the work of the God of this world to blind hearts whether such as deny the light within and preach against it least people should believe in it be not in his work and Ministry yea or no VII What kind of faith thine is who hast denyed that faith that is the gift of God and how thou came by it which God did not give thee and whether that faith which is not of God be not of the Devill yea or no VIII Did ever any of the Saints professe a faith which they received not of God and whether thy contention be for the faith once delivered to the Saints and if so from whom hadst thou it seeing thou denyes it to be the gift of God IX What faith is that which pleads for sin and preaches against perfection that believes that they can never be free from six nor come to perfection while they are in this world show the Saint that so believed and so preached X. Was not the end of Christs Ministry for perfecting the Saints and is not that Antichrist whose Ministry is against it or is Christs Ministry now changed against what it was XI Whether that faith that is not of God can receive the things of God or can be imputed for righteousnesse to him that hath it and is not his righteousnesse of himself whose faith is of himself or can it be otherwise if it be the righteousnesse of faith XII Whether he that hath not received the faith of God be not an Infidell or is he to be believed in matters of God and Christ and being of a false faith is it safe to believe what he saith against the Children of light XIII Whether it be not plain nonsense to say that Christ doth enlighten every one that comes into the world as thou doest confesse in thy Book and then to deny that light to be in that enlightens XIV Whether Paul was rightly called and endued to the Ministry who was not sent to Baptize and whether it was not a signe that John was decreasing and Christ increasing that being left out in Pauls Command who was called after Christ was offered up or cannot a man now be a Minister of Christ and not sent to Baptize XV. Seeing the last of Matthew is your strength for water baptism I ask whether one may not be baptized into the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost without being dipped in carnall water also whether all you dip in the water you doe baptize them into the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost if the first of these be yea and the latter no then I conclude carnall dipping is not the thing XVI Doth every one that reads the Bible hear the word of God or hath every one the word that hath a Bible and what difference is there betwixt the ministration of the letter now and that in the Jewes time both denying the light and the faith which is the gift of God and will this save now without the ministration of the Spirit more then in their dayes XVII Whether that righteousnesse that a man reads of in the letter sets himself to doe the like without that faith which is the gift of God or the leading of the light of Christ the ministration of the Spirit be the righteousnesse of faith or selfe righteousnesse Now I appear to every honest heart that I have not proposed these Queries out of curiosity or to dive into things above the measure of a Christian but that which every one ought to know who professes not so high as thou doest So that if it be not thy subtilty least thou shouldest be discovered thou needest not be letted from answering in plainnesse that thy faith may be known what it is thou contends for that so simple ones may not be beguiled with fained suttlery instead of faith for if the faith be false that profession stinks and the Professor thereof is not to be believed in whatever he saith touching Religion FINIS