BABILONS DEFENCE Broken down and one of Antichrists Warriours DEFEATED In an Answer to a Scandalous Pamphlet Intituled THE QVAKER-JESVIT OR Popery in Quakerisme Put forth by one William Brownsword who calls himself Minister of the Gospel at Kendal In which the Doctrines of the Quakers so called are more truly stated than he hath stated them and fully manifested and clearly proved by the Holy Scriptures to be the sound doctrines of Truth In opposition to his false Slanders of them to be Popery In which also it is fully manifest that our practices are the practices of truth for which we have the holy Prophets and Ministers of Christ for our Example Wherein it is clearly manifest that he hath no more true ground to compare us to the Monks than the Enemies of truth had in Generations past to compare the holy Prophets to Idolators who practiced such things in obedience to God in their Age as we practice in obedience to God in our Age being a true testimony that many of the things that he hath said concerning us and our Religion are false With a few Queries to him concerning those Doctrines and Practices in which he hath compared us with the Papists By John Stoery Blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsly for my sake Mat. 5. 11. As many were astonied at thee his visage was so marr'd more than any man and his form more than the sons of men Isai 52. 14. LONDON Printed for Robert Wilson at the Black-Spread-Eagle and Wind-mill in Martins near Aldersgate 1660. Babylons Defence broken down and one of Antichrists Warriours Defeated In an Answer to a Slanderous Pamphlet Intituled The Quaker-Jesuite Or Popery in Quakerisme c. WHereas a Lying Pamphlet being come to my hands of William Brownswords who professes himself to be a Minister of the Gospel at Kendal but his Fruits and Practices doth rather demonstrate him to be a Minister of Anti-Christ and of that Generation that cryed Report and we will report it who ever did and doth report their lies and slanders against the Innocent to make the truth odious who are of that generation that shuts the Kingdome of God against men neither entering by Christ the light themselves nor suffering them that would but endeavours to perswade people that it is Popery and dangerous to hearken to the light of Christ within them and so endeavours to divert them from the means of recovery out of the shaddow of death and grosse darknesse which hath over spread the whole world out of which there is no way or means but in and through Jesus who is the true light of the world and did so testify of himself that all people might believe in him to have Life and Salvation who redeems mankind out of sin and saves from destruction and gives Eternal Life to as many as believes in him and leads out of darknesse all them that follow him in whose light all Nations of them that are saved must walk In which light is the Saints Union known and the Blood of the Lamb witnessed which was shed for many to remit sin And thou who would instigate people against the light of Jesus and endeavours to perswade that it is Popery to exhort people to hearken to the spirit of truth or light of Christ in them neither enters by him thy self nor is willing to suffer others but the day is appeared and the everlasting light is manifesting which will discover all thy deceits and thy refuge of lyes shall be swept away and thy slanders will return upon thy own head in the day when the Lord pleads with thee for all thy hard speeches and rewards thee according to thy doings Whereas Thou calls thy Pamphlet the Quaker-Jesuite Or Popery in Quakerisme Answer The people of God who are by the world in scorne called Quakers do deny thee and the Jesuites and all theirs and thy doctrines that are contrary to the truth and distructive to mens salvation and as for thy saying there is Popery in Quakerisme No Popery thou hast or canst prove to be amongst us or any doctrines that 's contrary to the holy Scriptures and Gospel of Christ therefore will these thy sayings and slandrous words that there is Popery in Quakerisme return upon thy own head and be thy burden at last Except thou confess thy fault and Repent And whereas thou further calls thy Pamphlet A cleare discovery that their doctrines with their proofs and arguments are fetch out of the Counsel of Trent Bellarmine and others Answ Our doctrines which are the wholesome doctrines of the Gospel of Christ which we have not received of man neither were taught by men but by the Revelation of Christ are not fetch out of the Counsel of Trent Bellarmine and others but it is no wonder that thou being blind saith that our doctrines are fetch out of the Counsel of Trent Bellarmine and others when thou sayest those good and wholesome sayings Of the holy Scriptures and Apostles of Christ which thou thy self hast quoted as proofs which we bring for our doctrines are fetch out of the Counsel of Trent Ballarmine and others was the Counsel of Trent Ballarmine and others the Original of those Scriptures or are they Popery and we Papists for bringing them to beare testimony of our doctrines Canst thou behold thy work again and not be ashamed when thou seest thy folly and Ignorance made manifest unto all that have the least measure of true knowledg Is thy Pamphlet a cleare discovery that our arguments are fetch out of the Counsel of Trent when here is not not any of our arguments in all thy Pamphlet but onely a few doctrines stated in such a manner as hath pleased thee to state them but our doctrines which are the wholesome doctrines of truth which thou hast not nor canst not disprove but thy own self hast quoted the Scriptures which doth in effect prove the things of which we say Therefore let that mouth be for ever stopped that sayth they and their proofs which is the words of the holy Scriptures are fetch out of the Councel of Trent Bellarmine and others And so thy slanders of us and our doctrines and the holy Scriptures shall returne back upon thy own head until thou confess thy folly and repent and do no more so wickedly And thou further saith that their practises are fetcht out of the Rules of Popish Monks Answ It is utterly false for our practises have we not received as traditions from them neither do we walk by their rules but by the rules of the Spirit of Truth by which we are led from that which is evil and through which we receive power to practice that which is good which spirit is become our leader into all truth and will abide with us for ever Whereas thou begins thy Disswasive Exhortation saying Beloved The respect that I beare to your Souls the Trvth's and Church of
Christ much endangered by secret and unweared actings of the Emissaries of Rome Answ Though thou dost endeavour in this thy Disswasive Exhortation to perswade the Inhabitants of Kendall That wee called Quakers are Romes Emissaries by which the Truths of Christ are much endangered yet Romes Emissaries we are not neither are the Truths of Christ endangered or opposed by us as thou thy self hast confessed in the fourth position of the leaventh page of thy Pamphlet where thou confesseth Wee never opposed any fundamental truths that thou heardest of Therefore in this position thou hast cleared us from being Romes Emissaries by which truth is indangered which in thy Disswasive Exhortation thou hast endeavoured to perswade the Inhabitants of Kendall wee are Here the Inhabitants of Kendall may see thy envy and confusion who would have them to believe That wee are such by whom the truth is endangered And yet thy own tongue in contradicting thy envious disswasion is made to cleare us saying That wee never opposed any fundamental truths that ever thou heardest of which is truth For fundamental truths wee have not opposed at any time And as concerning the Church of Christ I say this It is builded upon the Rock which Romes Emissaries nor the gates of Hell can never prevaile against For all who are of the true Church and body of which Christ Jesus is the head and in his light dwells and walks by it they see and is able to diserne betwixt Truth and Error the doctrines of Christ and the doctrines which are preached by the Papiâ—…s and thee which thou wouldest instigate into the inhabitants of Kendall to cause them to believe that we their country men well known to some of them are Papists and that our doctrines are Popery but all thy labour in slandring us is in vain and thy asserting that our doctrines are Popery to no purpose for thou neither hast or ever canst confute them by the holy Scripture and Truth therefore in the end thy slanders will returne upon thy own head and unrighteous sayings be thy burden whereas thou speaks of a Quaker Jesuite at Bristol mentioned by Mr. Prynne as thou calls him That his sayings was made appear to be false and a slander I shall refer the Reader to the Answer of his scandallous paper Intituled The Quakers unmasked Put forth by William Prinne wherein his slanders is made to appear and he is found with a lye in his mouth Whereas thou goes on saying occasioned a late serious publique disswasive of you from the Church and Doctrines of Romes under what name soever and by whomsoever they were propounded to you and especially as they are propounded by the Quakers Answ It is utterly false to say the Quakers propounds Romes Doctrines either to the Inhabitants of Kendal or any other people for no other doctrines have we preached but the doctrines of Christ which we are able to prove and maintaine by the sound Arguments of Truth and Scriptures to be the doctrines that tends to the Salvation of Souls And when thou writes again give under thy hand positively what doctrines they are thou calls Romes doctrines propounded by the Quakers and name the man or men that is owned to be Ministers of Christ among us that thou call'st Quakers that did propound or preach them and till then let this slander reture into the uncleane bottle from whence this and all the rest of thy slanders hath come And thou sayest the charge of false-hood against me by them hath produced this demonstration of the truth of what I had publiquely asserted which I hope will tend to settle you against their way Answ This demonstration of Lies and Slanders doth not any way clear thee from my charge against thee in the â—ight of any who rightly understands the controversy betwixt thee and us but rather is an adding sin to sin and a heaping up wrath unto thy self against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgement of God for the thing that was desired of thee by me was as thou behind our backs had devulged publiquely in the Steeple-House that our principles and doctrines was Popery That thou would give us a faire Meeting where all might heare the discourse betwixt ther and us And if thou could by the Scriptures prove our doctrines to be Popery or contrary to the Scriptures and distructive to mens Salvation then would we lay them down if not but we on the contrary could manifest our doctrines to be truth and according to the Scriptures then as thou had publiquely spoken against our doctrines calling them Popery thou shouldest publiquely confess thy fault and this was the substance of what I said to thee in the street of Kendal and thou being not able to manifest that to be true which thou had publiquely asserted concerning our principles and doctrines this charge is still good against thee till thou publiquely acknowlege thou hast wronged us And whereas thou further sayest in these doctrines which are peculiarly Romes doth the doctrines of the Quakers conspire and may therefore be called Popery without falsehood Answ I say of this as of the rest of thy slanders that it is altogether untrue for no doctrines do we preach and hold forth but the doctrines of the Gospel of Christ and for the defence of them and manifestation that they are true against thee and all that oppose them we can bring pertinent testimonyes out of the holy sayings of the Prophets Christ and his Apostles Words who preached the same Gospel and Doctrines before us and no doctrine of ours if rightly stated and as we preach them hast thou parallel'd with the Papist and thier doctrines but thou mightest as well have parallel'd the doctrine of the Apostles with the doctrine of the Papist as it will after more fully appear in our own stating the vindication and proof of our doctrines to be true which thou hast not neither ever canst confute or disprove by the truth or Scriptures Therefore thy slander of our doctrines will returne back upon thy selfe having replyed against some of thy slanders and untruths cast upon us and our doctrines I shall go on to the right stating and more full manifestation of our doctrines to be the sound and wholesome doctines of Truth though thou hast parallel'd them with the Papists that it may appear more fully that wherein thou hast parallel'd our doctrines with any thing they say which is truths in themselves thou might as well a parallel'd the Apostles with them because they may hold some of the same truths in the unrighteousnesse which the Apostles held forth and we hold in the righteousnesse and thou thy self confesses they hold some truths I. Doctrine that light which John came for a witnesse of that all men through his testimony might believe which doth light every man that comes into the world which is Jesus Is sufficient to convince of sin and lead to repentance all them thâ—… to his call hearken and is
Acts 10. 34. where Peter saith of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons Sixthly where thou sayest there is no absolute decree of Election and reprobation from Eternity and sayest see a late Confession of Faith by Burroughs To this I say there is no such position in his confession of faith as thou here hath asserted but that we do believe that their is a state of Election and Reprobation as is there confest and faithfully acknowledged Seaventhly thou sayest that the Scriptures are not the Rule this is charged upon them by the Ministers of New-Castle as thou sayest To this I say as many as are begotten of the immortal seed to a lively hope by the word of God which abides for ever are his sons and children and such are led by the Spirit of God and it is their rule and not the letter Rom. 8. 14. and yet such are not Papists nor to be parallel'd with Bellarmine who shews the Scriptures are not necessary for they acknowledge that they are necessary that the man of God may be perfect and throughly furnished unto all good works 2 Tim. 3. 17. Eighthly thou compares us to the papists for saying the baptisme of Infants is not to be proved by the Scripture and quotes Bellarmine for calling it a tradition that 's no where written To this I say though we are no Papists yet I believe that Bellarmine confesses in this thing more truth than thou for it is very like it is a tradition which in its beginning was instituted by the Papists Church yet however this I am sure of that it is not recorded in the Scriptures of truth that ever God commanded it or any of his Ministers whom he sent forth practiced it therefore the Papist and thou that preaches it up as an ordinance of God is required to prove if you can when God ordained it or any of his Apostles practiced it and if you cannot Confess you have taught for ordinances mens traditions and seeing the Papists do confesse it is a tradition well may you Protestants doe the same for you had the practice of sprinkling Infants from them and in this you have drunk the whores cup. Ninethly whereas thou sayest that one day of seaven which we call the Lords day is no more than any other day and that it is without divine Authority To this I say further there is no command of God in the Scriptures for observing the first day of the week as a Sabboth of rest by ceasing from all bodyly labour of man servant or maid servant cattle and stranger that is within our gates as there was a command of God to the Jewes to observe the seaventh day and keep it holy to the Lord for a Sabboth of rest to them their sons and daughters man-servants and maid-servant cattel and stranger that was within their gates which Sabboth unto them was a signe and thou further sayest we make it Tipecal in which thou compares us to Bellarmine which comparison is altogether unequal for though Bellarmine counted it Tipical yet we make it not Tipecal for it was the seaventh day and not the first day which we say was a signe and concerning the first day of the week if thou hold that it was commanded by divine Authority as the seaventh day once was when thou writes again shew when it was commanded and where the holy Scriptures testifies of any such Command Tenthly whereas thou sayest that we say the Lords Supper as administred in your Churches is nothing but a bit of bread and wine and that we speak scornfully of it To this I say when thou writes again I desire thee to shew us an example if thou canst where ever the Apostles and true Church mett together in a Steeple House or Idolls Temple and broke bread in such a form and manner among unconverted people as you do calling it the Lords Supper or a Sacrament but the Lords Supper which is so in truth we do freely own and whereas thou compares us with the Papists in saying we speak scornfully of that which you call the Lords Supper in this I say thy comparing of us with them is altogether unequal for we do not speak scornfully of it but where we see either the Papists or you in an error we do rather pitty you than scorn you and desires that you may be recovered out of all error and be saved in the day of the Lord yet we do despise and reject the vain traditions of men which is practised for the worship of God by you Eleventhly thou sayest that wee affirm that Protestants Ministers are no Ministers of Christ that we use the vilest Language against you that we can invent deny your call and say you came from Rome c. Answ If thou meanest by Protestant Ministers of such of you as seeks for your gain from your quarters and Preaches for hire and makes a bargain for so much a year these practices being the same as the false Prophets and Papists are in doth in some measure demonstrate that your begining was from Rome for no example can you shew for those practices aforementioned among all the Holy Prophets or Ministers of Christ that have been since the begining And whereas thou sayest that we use the vilest language that we can invent against you I Answer this is utterly false for no vile language do we use or invent against you but the language of truth telling you plainly without flattering of the evil of your wayes that you may repent and in thus doing we have the holy Prophets of old for our example Twelfly that we have the same spirit of Infallability that the Apostles had To this I say further both we and all Gods children who are of the little flock have the same Infallible Spirit according to its measure and manifestation which is given to every child of God to profit withall 1 Cor. 12. 7. and both thou and all that say they have it not but counts it Popery for any to confess they have it art so far from being a Minister of Christ that both thou and they that have it not are not yet of his flock for the Apostle saith plainly if any man have not the spirit of Christ he is none of his Rom. 8. 9. and yet he was no Papist nor with them to be parallel'd no more are we that confesse we have the Spirit of Christ I having rightly stated and vindicated our doctrines against thy slanders and proved them by the holy Scriptures to be the wholesome and sound doctrines of the Gospel I shall go on to lay open and reply against thy slanders and falsities concerning us in which thou hast compared us with the Popish Monks but it had been more wisdome and more like a Minister of Christ to enquired truly into our practices before thou had given judgement upon us or have compared us to the Popish Monks in whose discipiline thou sayest we seem to be admirably
the true light that lighteth every man yet every man doth not believe in and receive the light which manifesteth those evil deeds for which he is reproved therefore every man hath not the knowledge of God because some rejects his Light which would give the knowledge of him And thou goes on and sayest their doctrines which they broach with confidence among their silly credulous followers they will not dare to owne before others Answ For our doctrines and testimonies that we have given of Christ the true light of the world we both dare and have openly owned before the world Therefore this accusation is utterly false and no true ground thou hast to say so concerning us but thou mayest imagine thou hast some ground because we would not be tyed to express our selves concerning the light in such a way and manner as thou would have prescribed to us or have our principles stated in a form of words to which thou would have limitted us And thou goes on in thy false accusations saying that which hath been vainly attempted by Antichrist is their very designe if accomplished do but think how the Papists would rejoyce in it Answ That which hath been attempted by Antichrist is not our designe neither in the accomplishment of our ends and desires will either he or the Papists rejoyce for our ends and and desire is that people may be brought from under Satans dominions and led out of the Ignorance and grosse darknesse that hath long covered the inhabitants of the earth into the true knowledge of the living God that they may him worship and glorify in spirit and in truth And in the fourth thou sayest they never yet that I have heard of did oppose any of those fundamental truths we have preached unto you Answ In this thou hast cleared us from the great slander which in the former thou cast upon us for we never did nor do oppose any fundamental truths though both you and the Papists may hold them and preach them in the unrighteousnesse Thus contradicting of thy false sayings in thy third reason thou hast cleared us and so what hath been attempted by Antichrist and false Ministers against fundamental truths was never our designe as thy self hast confessed that we never opposed any fundamental truths that ever thou heard of yet though we have not opposed any fundamental sayings of Christ and his Apostles spoken by you yet we have opposed those fundamental errors spoken by you as witnesse that fundamental errors spoken by thee in our conference at Kendal viz that there is in every man a natural light that gives them some measure of the knowledge of God And this I did oppose thee in and shall beare my testimony against it for it is an error in the fundamental even in that which concerns the eternal life of souls when time shall be no more for if this were true viz that every man by a natural light hath a measure of the knowledge of God then everyman had eternal life all drunkards and prophane persons upon earth were in a state of happinesse And as concerning thy reproachful sayings in thy Epilogue thou calls us the Popes very Pedlars to sell off his corrupt wares in stalls which would never off in shops Answ Thy jeers and unrighteous sayings concerning us will returne upon thy own head for the Pope we deny and his corrupt wares we deny amongst us neither his nor thine is of any estimation but me thinks thou and thy brethren who have been made Ministers by natural educacation and humane learning and arts and having got the Mass-house which originally appertaining to the Papists which they founded and consecrated for their Idolatrous worship in which you now sell your wares for which you receive the same price and wages which was once esteemed due to the Pope and his Clergy therefore if any in the Nation be his Pedlars Mountebanks and drudges you are to be suspected And thou further sayest I might have fil'd sheets with their fastings and visions and impulses to strange actions To this I say when thou writes again say all that thou canst concerning our fastings and visions and cease to slander in the dark by which thou endeavours to perswade the Ignorant that thou could manifest some great evills concerning our fastings and visions Whereas thou speaks of impulses and strange actions To this I say impulses and actions that is out of truth and Power of God is denyed by us and all that is excercised therein And thou further sayest do you of this place consider and such of you as have been former professors look back to your profession your Apostacy hath been the grief of many To this I say how can there be an Apostacy and falling from the truth of any if they never have been in the truth and though the people of God at Kendall that is gathered from the false Shepherds and hirelings be not fallen from the Truth and Grace of Christ yet thy speaking that they are Apostatized and bidding them returne from whence they are fallen doth clearly demonstrate that thou admits that their may be a falling away which is the very same thing that thou hast denyed of ours as an error and for asserting that some fell away thou hast compared us to the Papists canst thou behold this again and not see thy self in confusion one while building up and another while throwing down for if thou doest not believe that their can be a falling from true grace why dost thou exhort them to returne from whence thou sayest they are fallen A few Questions to thee William Brownsword who sayest our doctrines are Popery which we have proved by the Scriptures to be the doctrines of truth and can no more rightly be compared to the doctrines of the Papists than the doctrines of the Apostles can be compared with the doctrines of the Papists Therefore thou art desired to answer these questions in plainnesse without shuffling or evading that so the ground of thy judgement may be more fully manifest to all And what reason thou hast to parallel our doctrines and practices with the doctrines and practices of the Papists Seeing we of all people do not onely testify against the corrupt doctrines and practices of the Papists in other Nations but also against the Reliques of Popery in this Nation that is found amongst the hireling Priests and Ministers that is made by the will of man and not by the will of God and gift of the Holy Ghost I. Query Whether it is Popery to affirm that Jesus the true light doth light every man that comes into the world yea or nay II. Query And whether it is Popery to affirm that the true light of the world that lighteth every man which is Jesus is sufficient to lead to repentance and save them that believe yea or nay III. Query And whether Christ Jesus may not be as truly preached in this age the leader of mankind out of Ignorance and
the world And whereas thou accuseth us to be wanting in the esteem of true practices of Religion when thou writes again set downe in particular what those practices are which thou calls or can prove to be the true practices of Religion which thou accuses us to be wanting in the esteem of Ninethly thou sayest they carry a shew of self-denial abnegation of the world contempt of riches envy against the Ministers of Christ for having maintenance as if themselves had nothing yet thrives fast payes their debts makes purchases getts good Estates wear of late rich Cloaths Answ Thy assertion in this is utterly false as the rest have been for we do not envy against the Ministers of Christ for having maintenance but acknowledge that they that preach the Gospel may live of the Gospel according to Gods Ordinance and they that sow spiritual things may reap carnal things but having food and rayment are therewith to be content and there is no example amongst them for being hired at a Parish or making a bargain for so much as fourescore or a hundred pounds more or less as they can get it by the year or tithes of all the people possesses as the hireling Priests and Papists in England have done and for thy saying they thrive fast and paying depts and gets good estates to which I say when thou writes again instance one that is owned as a Minister amongst us that through gain made of the Ministry who had nothing that hath done any of these things aforementioned and till then let this slander returne back upon thy self as the rest have done and if God blesse any of his people with outward encrease why doest thou envious wretch reproach them because of Gods mercyes Thou sayest further that we wear rich Cloaths To this I say how fully hast thou contradicted thy self in the first of thy assertions in which thou parallel'd us with the Monks in thy saying that we lay much stress upon plain and mean apparel and now hast so far forgotten thy selfe that the same tongue saith now we weare rich Cloaths but in this thy envy against the truth is manifest and however they go that walk in it whether well in cloaths or mean in cloaths it will not please thee nor the envyous generation that loves not their neighbour as their selves And further thou tells of having stocks of money out of which thou supposes we have great and large sumes when wee have a mind to travel To which I shall answer thy supposition is false as the rest of thy sayings have been and if there be any such thing as stocks of money for the maintaining of the poor and other necessary uses among Friends is not this of good report and like Saints more than they in your Churches where your Members is like to starve and begs Tenthly thou sayest wee are a seduced people and active in seducing others being ignorant and unlearned yet an importunant and unweared people compassing Sea and Land to make one proselyte yet not for themselves but for those Sophisters of Rome whose factors they are Answ This is altogether false as the rest of thy slanders have been for Romes Factors we are not nor for them do we make proselytes And for thy saying that we are a seducing people and acting in seducing others I Answer this is altogether false as thy other assertions concerning us hath been for we are not seduced nor active in seducing others nor yet ignorant and unlearned in the things that appertains to Gods Kingdome our Salvation and the Salvation of them that hears us Eleaventhly thou sayest now I hope I have made it evident that the hand of a Jesuite is in the Quakers Religion how could they else be so well verst in their absur'd doctrines Answ The hope of the hypocrite is vain and his trust is like the spiders web for thou neither hast or can manifest the hand of of a Jesuite to be in our Religion nor any doctrine that is truly ours hast thou manifest to be absur'd or proved to be contrary to the truth and doctrines of the Gospel of Christ But it is manifest thou art verst in the Papists writings and doctrines otherwise thou could not have stated so many of them and their practices therefore thy saying that we are verst in their absur'd doctrines is false and may returne upon thy self who art guilty therein and thou goes on saying I will conclude with a re-inforcement of my disswasive of you from their doctrines and practices They are from Antichrist therefore avoid them Answ Our doctrines which is the doctrines of truth and our practices for which we have example among the Prophets and Ministers of Christ all the lyes and slanders which thou and all the Merchants of Babylon can cast upon us or upon our doctrines cannot disswade from our way which is the way of God any of them who hath the least measure of true knowledge therefore the adding thy reasons as thou calls them to imprint in people a deep hatred against our way which is truth shall not be effectual for thy refuge of lyes shall be swept away and unrighteous slanders turned back upon thy own head in the dreadful day of the Lord when he rewards thee and all the wicked according to their doings In the first of thy reasons thou sayest they are miserably divided among themselves about their principles Answ This is false for we who are in the truth and walks in the light have unity and are not divided amongst our selves about our principles though we did deny several of those things as they were stated having good reason so to do because they were stated in thy manner and as thou our adversarie pleased to state them and the young men affirm not in the very same words and form as they spoke them Whereas thou sayest the fourth of these reasons was again owned in a discourse viz that we are justified by obedience To which I say it is utterly false for no such thing was owned by any of us neither of it was there any discourse betwixt thee and us that day And whereas thou further calls it a contradiction to say that every man is lighted with the true light which is Christ And yet not spiritually enlightned with the knowledge of God Answ In this thy ignorance and want of understanding in the things of God is manifest in calling that a contradiction which is no contradiction for both these sayings in effect may be proved by plain words of Scriptures as John 1. 9. where it is said that was the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world and Jeremiah saith poure out thy wrath upon the heathen that know thee not Jer. 10. 25. So it is evident that the heathen know not God therefore may it truly be said without contradicting Johns testimony that every one is not enlightned with the spiritual knowledge of God though that testimony is true that saith
worshipped him after the strictest manner then held forth and this from our Infancy and upon what ground thou should charge us with being Jesuites and Papists I know not except it be to prove and shew thy self both ignorant slanderous and ridiculous amongst thy own hearers who doubtless some of them may say we know they are not such as thou hast said and the Witness in their consciences may prove thee a lyar and out-date thy book as an old Almanack â—it for the fire and thou hast wholly missed thy mark if thou thoughtest to lay a stumbling-block before thy Flock concerning us by this means of accusing of us falsly this shall do thee no good but turn to an offence against thy own self and as thou thought to do to others so shall it be done to thee and thou and thy work shall be rejected the one as ignorant and vain the other as ignorance and vanity for we are known to thy hearers to be neither Jesuits nor Papists but they can tell that thou art a false accuser in this And for thee to accuse us where we have been so well known renders thy selfe both ignorant and hatefull And it doth many wayes appear That wee are not Papists partly as I have said we were not such in the dayes of our Infancy neither educated nor practised therein but were zealous against Popery even from our childhood as the People of Kendal very well knows who can witness for us and against thee that we were neither such nor yet lovers of them but were altogether zealous against them from our childhood as I have said And it is evident we have been no such since we were reproached by the name of Quakers for we have given divers testimonies by writing in divers particular books which I might mention against the Church of Rome as knowing Her not to be the true Church of Christ but a false Church made up of Apostates originally and being Idolators in their Worship Church Ministry and whole Religion this testimony we have borne at sundry times and upon divers occasions sometimes we have given our testimony by writing against them plain affirmations and sometimes in answer to their writings against us and divers of us have been moved to go into their Dominions and declare the Word of the Lord against their Idolatryes And also divers of our friends forbearing their witness against the Church of Rome have suffered great and cruel things some until death and some at this day are in their Inquisitions and Goals and under suffering by them even for this cause for we have a large testimony and witness to give against the Church of Rome And by what we have testified in word and writing and by what we have suffered from them for so doing it well appears that we are not Jesuites nor Papists and with what face thou could accuse us it makes us to wonder at thy impudency seeing thou hast so little ground for it but hast upon thy malice thus falsly accused us without any just cause at all but this thy work which thou hast done shall return into thy own bosome with the reward of Judgement except thou repent and sin no more Yes but sayest thou you are Papists for why Such and such doctrines and practises you hold forth and the like is held forth by the Papists and this proves that you are so Answ Alas friend thou hast mightily discovered thy ignorance and folly in thus proceeding and in thus judging for doubtless the Papists may hold the profession of some truths in doctrines and practises unto this day even as thy own Brethren did confess at a certain Meeting of Dispute they affirmed to me that there were many saving truths held by the Church of Rome and seeing that they hold that Christ Jesus is the Saviour of the World and that by him people comes to eternal life and that he was born and died and rose again and seeing they hold that Saints must deny the world and forsake sin and the evil of the world These doctrines and practises with many others they do hold in words and appearance which are saving doctrines and practises in themselves though not to them but because they hold these things must the People of God either deny these doctrines and practises or else be accounted Jesuites and Papists for holding of them And would not this be unrighteous Judgement according to which thou hast judged us But I must tell thee we do hold the truth in righteousness both in doctrine and practises even upon this account because the Spirit of the Lord hath and doth lead us into all truth both in doctrine and practises And though the Papists may hold the profession of the same truth in words and outward appearance yet this is no ground for us to deny the truth as it is in Jesus nor yet a sufficient ground for thee to accuse us to be Papists but because thou art both ignorant and wicked therefore thou hast thus proceeded and thy work is a very scorn to many that are not Quakers and they see thy errour and ignorance in thy proceedings And wouldst thou thus be dealt withall And you Priests of England shall we judge you according to thine own rule might not I lay you to the line of Judgement and may not I instnace many particular things both in doctrines and practises which are held forth by the Ministers and Church of England and the Jesuites and Papists they hold the very same and shall we therefore conclude lawfully that all the Ministers of England and their People are Papists Oh man behold thy folly and what a snare thou hast laid for thy self and how thou art fallen into the pit which thou hast digged for others And further consider some of those doctrines and practises which thou hast charged upon us are proveable and exemplary in the Scriptures even by the Apostles who held forth and practised the same things and because we hold and practise the same therefore we are accounted Papists from this rule because the Papists profess the same like as if it were errour to say Christ is the Son of God because the Devil said so and like as if it were an errour to believe there is a God because the Devils believe so and by thy false proposed rule thou might have proved the one as soon as the other and thou might have said the Quakers are Devils why because the Devils confest Christ and they believe there is a God and therefore they are devils and would this be good Logick And such is thy Logick thou illiterate man Why this is thy work the Papists they hold such and such things and the Quakers they hold the same and therefore the Quakers are Papists Behold the substance of thy work thou vain man thou and thy work are both ridiculous to sober-minded people Now indeed if thou couldst have instanced such doctrines and practises held forth by us which the Papists do
able to save to the utmost all them that his light love and obey for the Author to the Hebrews speaking concerning Jesus the true light of the world that lighteth every man saith he being made perfect he became the Author of Eternal Salvation to all them that obey him Heb. 4. 9. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him Heb. 7. 25. II. Doctrine we say that the perfection of the Saints was and is attainable in and through Christ even while they were and are upon the Earth or else the work for which the true Ministry was given had been void if the work for which they were begifted among the Saints which was Ephes 4 11 12 13. For the edifying of the body of Christ till they came all to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfect man unto the measure of the Stature of the fulness of Christ Could not have been accomplished while they were upon the Earth but Saints are redeemed from Sin and have escaped the pollutions of the world and by the word of God are sanctified according to what the Apostle saith 1 Cor. 6. 11. Such were some of you but you are washed but you are sanctified but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God And Jude in his general Epistle to the Saints saith they are santified by God the Father and preserved in Christ Jesus And the Author to the Hebrews speaking of himself and the Saints saith by the will of God we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Christ once for all Heb. 10. 10. And the same Author saith in the 14th of the same chapter by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified and yet he and the Saints that was sanctified and perfected for ever even while they were upon the earth and preached it and exhorted the Saints to press after it were not Papists nor rightly could be compared with Idolators in their Generation no more can we that preacheth perfection and exhort to press after it and believe it to be attainable in and through Christ be rightly compared to the Papists in our Generation And as concerning the third which thou states as out of our Doctrines in which thou compares us with the Papists we do deny it it is not any of our Doctrines either held or preached by us as thou hast stated it and in stating that we hold Justification by obedience thou hast not done honestly was not thou formerly answered that we are not justified by any obedience that is of the Creature but by the free gift of God in Christ Therefore I further say that we are not justified by our obedience or for our obedience but in and through the Lord Jesus Christ to whom we are obedient Whereas thou further saith and eminent speaker among them in the hearing of multitudes asserted that the righteousness that was wrought by the Power of God in the hearts of the Gentiles mention'd Rom. 2. 14. 15. is a righteousnesse whereby they were justified in the sight of God Answ To this I say concerning the Gentiles in doing well and working righteousnesse they were accepted and justified in the sight of God according to that of the Apostle where he saith God is no respecter of persons but in every Nation he that fears him and worketh righteousnesse is accepted with him Acts 10. 34. 35. Whereas thou sayest in the hearing of multitudes why dost thou call so few people as were there multitudes except thou would have some to believe thou gave us a fair meeting in some publique place which thou denyed to do though much urged to it but it is no wonder seeing thou had accused our doctrines to be Popery and our practices to be fetcht out of the rules of Popish Monks altogether without any true ground as is and will be fully manifest by the proof of our doctrines to be sound and true and our practices to have example among the Prophets and Ministers of Christ And whereas thou accuses James Naylor in the fifth page of his Book tituled The salutation to the Seed To say the Doctrine of Faith is the work of the Devil Answ Thy Accusation is utterly false as that page of his Book and all that reads it may bear Testimony against theâ— And whereas in the fourth thou speaks of Judas Being a godly man until Christ gave him the Sop the Devil thereupon entered into him Answ In that thou hast stated these words again thou hast not done honestly because thou hast formerly been answered that we did not own this Principle as it is stated to wit That Judas was a godly man till he received the Sop and we had ground for the denying of this Principle and others as they were stated because the young men themselves did affirm they were not so written as they spoke them but this we do affirm that Judas who was numbred with the Apostles and had obtained part of the Ministry and others fell away as we can fully prove by the Scriptures of truth where it is said Acts 1. 25. That he may take part of this Ministry from which Judas by transgression fell and Heb. 4. 5 6. and 2 Pet. 2. 20 21 22. where it it is said It had been better for them not to have known the way of Righteousness then after they have known it to turn from the holy Commandment delivered unto them but it is happened unto them according to the true Proverb the Dog is turned to his vomit again and the Sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire more Scriptures might have been mentioned as Ezek. 18. 24. and others but by the mouth of two or three witnesses every truth shall be confirmed but these Scriptures I have not asserted to plead for falling away from grace and truth but to beare witnesse to the truth of our judgement in this particular and to manifest the wickednesse of our adversary who counts that Popery that is plain Scriptures as some of which he himself hath quoted doth bear testimony but it is no wonder seeing he saith the proofs themselves which is Scriptures is fetcht out of the Councel of Trent Bellarmine and others Fifthly that Pagans and Turks living justly and honestly may be justified and saved To which I say further that there is no respect of persons with God but in every Nation whether they be Jewes or Gentiles Turks or Pagans yet if they fear God and work righteousnesse of him they are accepted and whether he be a Turk or Pagan if he come to believe in Christ and follow his Spirit and light which leads to live justly and honestly he may be justified and saved in and through Christ And this doctrine is no Popery nor rightly can be parallel'd with theirs any more than the Apostles doctrine was to be parallel'd with the Papists