p. 8. The clear saying of one or two of those Fathers truely alledg'd by us to the Contrary will certainly prove that what many of them suppose it do affirm and which but two or three as good Catholicks do deny was not then a matter of Faith or a Doctrin of the Church I wish my Ld. had been so Ingenuous as to have made use of this Principle when he charg'd our Church it self with the mistakes of a few Writers contradicted not by one or two but sometimes by a whole Nation But this Principle shows 't was not Reason in him but Will and Interest which made him so hot As for his Principle it self it subsists not at all For is it not known that more than one or two that is S. Cyprian and the African Fathers deny'd the Baptism of Hereticks Valid yet the Contrary was notwithstanding found and defin'd to be Faith and the Sence of the Church Let him consider how perfectly he engages himself in the very Sphere of Contingency and recedes from Universality the Sphere of Certainty when he comes to rely on one or two unless he can show those one or two strangely supported and upheld by Universal Nature or concurring Circumstances 'T is possible even one or two Lawyers may hap to be ignorant of two or three Acts of Parliament But my Ld is still the best confuter of himself as appears lately by this present Principle apply'd to his former carriage against our Church To himself then let him answer I conceive that if one or two's not denying it to be of Faith or affirming expresly 't is not-of-Faith he engages not so far but bare denying a point argues what many do affirm to be not-of-Faith à fortiori one or two's affirming positively that to be of Faith and the Doctrin of the Catholick Church which many others barely deny argues 't is of Faith 'T was of Faith then what Gennadius cited by himself p. 59. affirms that After Christs Ascension the Souls of all Saints go from the body to Christ This being so let him reflect what himself asserts p. 49. that Justin Mariyr Tertullian Victorinus Martyr Prudentius S. Chrysostom Arethas Euthimius and S. Bernard affirm none go to Heaven till the last day Either then Gennadius his Testimony delivering the doctrin of the Catholick Church is Inefficacious and yet 't is incomparably the best nay the onely Efficacious one in my Lds. whole book or else according to him many Fathers and not one or two onely denying a point is no argument but that point may be of Faith Whether all those Fathers held so or no is another Question and requires a longer discussion 32. Fathers then are useless to the Dissuader as having according to him no virtue at all of setling the Understanding Yet he must make a show of them else all 's lost and so he tells his Readers p. 8. as if all were well two things both very remarkable The one that notwithstanding In the prime and purest Antiquity the Protestants are indubitably more than Conquerours in the Fathers A high Expression but compar'd with what he sayes p. 7. that in those times our present differences were unheard-of it signifies that they miraculously more then conquer where if his words be true no mortals else could either conquer or even attacque For how should one fight against such points in difference from those Fathers who never heard of those points The other is that even in the Fathers of the succeeding Ages the Protestants have the advantage both numero pondere mensurà in number weight and measure which joyn'd to his words at the bottome of p. 7. that each side may eternally and inconfutably bring sayings for themselves out of those Fathers which signifies that 't is to no end or purpose to alledge them amounts very fairly to this that he brags Protestants have a far greater number of Citations which are to no purpose than Catholicks have that those Citations which have no possible force of concluding or no weight at all do weigh more strongly for them than for us and lastly that they have a greater measure than we of proofs not worth a rush with which they can bubble up their books to a voluminous bigness And we willingly yield them the honour of having a very great advantage in all three in case they be such as his own words qualifie them to wit that each side may Eternally and Inconfutably alledge them 33. We come now to his main and most Fundamental and in comparison his onely Principle p. 9. laid out thus We do wholly rely upon Scriptures as the Foundation and final resort of all our Persuasions but we also admit the Fathers c. To finish our Discourse about the Fathers will make way to the Scripture What means admitting as contradistinguisht to relying on Not relying on that 's certain for 't is contradistinguisht to it And yet to alledge any thing for a Proof as they do Fathers and not to rely on it is to confess plainly for Truth will out that they alledge them meerly for a show He sayes they admit them as admirable Helps for the Understanding the Scriptures and good Testimony of the Doctrin deliver'd from their Forefathers Have a care my Ld. This supposes the Certainty of Tradition For if there be no Certainty of delivery there is no doctrin delivered nor consequently any thing for them to testify and so the words good Testimony unless our Ground of Continual Tradition stands mean directly that they are good for nothing as your former Discourses or Principles made them But I ask is their Interpretation of Scripture or Testimony Certain If not why should they even be admitted Or how can Vncertain Interpreters and Witnessers be admirable Helps to interpret right and good Testimony I fear my Ld. can onely mean they are Admirable Helps as Dictionaries and Books of Criticisms are to assist his Human Skill about the outward Letter which is a rare Office for a Father and not to give him the inward Sence of it or the deliver'd Doctrin of the Catholick Church for unless All conspire to speak to the same point if any one be silent concerning it it argues not according to my Ld. p. 8. a Catholick Consent and so is far beneath an admirable help And this is what we reprehend exceedingly in the Protestants that they love to talk gaily in common of any Sacred or Grave Authority for an affected form or show but not at all value the Virtue or Power of such an Authority not judge interiorly they have any worth valuing They would credit themselves by pretending Fathers yet at the same time lay wayes to elude them at pleasure or which is their very temper springing from their renouncing Living and determinate Sence and adhering to dead unsenc't words they study to speak Indeterminately and confusedly not particularly and closely 34. Do I wrong them Let my Ld. clear me His First Principle is by him
A DISCOVERY Of The Groundlesness And Insincerity Of my Ld. of Down's DISSUASIVE Being The Fourth Appendix to SVRE-FOOTING With A Letter to Dr. Casaubon and Another to his Answerer By J. S. Habentes Speciem quidem Pietatis Virtutem autem ejus abnegantes Et hos devita 2 Tim. 3. 5. LONDON Printed in the Year MDCLXV Corrections of the Press PAg. 25â— l. 11. my Lds. p. 265. l. 25. have added p. 267. l. 24. Ephrem p. 270. l. 26. sense p. 279. l. 11. Truths p. 281. l. 14. the head p. 293. l. 21. thing p. 307. l. 2. thus It. p. 301. l. 1. unproov'd p. 319. l. 1. Characters p. 320. l. 21. from the words p. 327. l. 4. Schism FOURTH APPENDIX Subverting Fundamentally and manifoldly my Ld. of Downs DISSUASIVE 1. I Had observ'd my self and was inform'd by others what harm my L. of Down's DISSUASIVE did to divers persons yet I found also that it wrought different Effects in his Protestant Readers according to their respective abilities of understanding Those who were thoroughly Intelligent universally dislikt it as a very weak and ungrounded Discourse but the middle or rather meaner sort of Schollers who have sufficient capacity to apprehend the Sence of an Objection yet not enough to weigh by Principles and so comprehend the force of it nor to distinguish between Church and Schools much less the Sagacity to dive into the many Sophistries Artifices and Indirect dealings which mis-used Rhetorick can employ to delude men's eye-sight were many of them startled and entertain'd a high conceit of it To which helpt that their well-meaning and natural sincerity permitted them not to suspect and so be aware of any deceit in a discourse manag'd all along with so much formal Gravity and showes of the greatest Piety that could be For a grave carriage being where Nature is not perverted wilfully the proper Effect of a sincere Earnestness and perfect Seriousness in the heart and Piety being conceiv'd to be that which ought to heighten supernaturally that interiour disposition they are consequently apt to breed in the observer of them a conceit of the greatest Seriousness in the world Nay even to those who are very weak and mean well it gains the Affecter of this way so much Authority that it persuades those who esteem them for it they have perfect Assuredness of what they so soberly write or affirm Whence follows that this kind of grave and seemingly pious demeanour especially if carry'd on with a Constancy is the most Effectual Engin in the world to inveigle rational souls which are not aware of the craft or by looking into Principles above it whither the Discourser pleases And I conceive our Country hath already so much felt its lamentable Effects out of Pulpits in the beginning of the late troubles that all reflecters on it are sufficiently warn'd not to think all to be the solid gold of Truth which glitters with Saintly shows Now in this consists the most efficacious part of my L. of Downs Dissuasive the rest whether Reasons or Citations being very ordinary And 't was this exceeding Plausibleness and by means of this Harmfulness of that Treatise which oblig'd me to alter my Resolution and make the Answer to it a fourth Appendix to Sure-footing which I had refused to the suggestion of my first Thoughts hoping some other would lay it open more at large But how shall I go about to answer it For as Sampson's strength lay in his hair the weakest part that can be found in a man so the chief Virtue of the Dissuasive lies in the Godliness of its style which being meer voluntary words and most unapt to make up Propositions expressive of connected Sence or to compile a rational Discourse 't is by consequence the weakest peece of performance which can possibly spring from a reasonable Creature Yet with this weapon I am soonest beat nothing being more averse to my Genius than to Saint it in Scripture-phrases a performance in which I confess a Quaker would easily worst me and would even put the Dissuader himself very hard to it especially in a Controversy which ought to be a severe proof of the Truth of the point under debate The way then which sutes my humour best and as I hope is most efficacious to conclude and satisfy is to examin by Principles whether there be force of Truth at the bottome grounding the Disluader's long Invective If there be it ought to have all handsome advantages of Expressions allow'd it If not 't is no more as to the Harmony of Truth but the running a great deal of division upon no Ground 2. I shall suppose the Reader of this Appendix hath already perus'd weighed the force of my Reasoningsin SURE FOOTING which done he will easily comprehend the strength of this Reply and the manifold weakness of my L. of Downs DISSUASIVE All Truths being connected it follows that every Errour is by consequence opposit to all Truths and They to it Hence each single Errour lies open to be confuted many wayes if the method of Reason or Connexion be taken I take therefore that method because by its priviledge of bringing things to First-Principles 't is apt to undermine and blow up Errour from its very Foundations Eight several mines I lay to perform this Effect each of which Wayes is alone sufficient to do my work First Way 3. THe First is to alledge that my L. of Downs has not one First or Self-evident Principle to begin with on which he builds his Dissuasive from Catholick Faith If I wrong him let him do himself right by pointing it out and showing that 't is opposit to our Churchees Doctrin which if he does I here yield my self absolutely confuted In the mean time I have proved that Traditiones Certainty is the First Principle of CONTROVERSY and am confident in the Invincible force of Truth that all the Wit in the World cannot confute that position And if it stands he is convincet not onely to want the First Principle of the Science we are to discourse in but his Cause forcing him to renounce Tradition's Certainty to go point-blank against it and so to invalidate to our hands all he shall write as a Controvertist and how weakly he behaves himself where he goes about to lay other Principles shall be shown when I come to answer his First Section Now seeing all Reason has force by relying on the Truth of the Premises and they are known to be true either by being First Principles themselves or by being finally resolvable into others which are such it follows there can be no true Reason where there is no First Principle Till he shows us then that he builds his Dissuasive on some First Principles it will follow his whole Endeavour is to dissuade not by way of Reason but Fine Words which are indeed the Substantiallest strongest and most efficacious part of his whole Book Second Way 4. THe Second Way is to exclude him all
London and in your chamber there upon occasion of reading a book writ by a certain Protestant Bishop against the Real presence I observ'd and acquainted you with my observation that to my Judgment the Fathers spoke more favourably for the Papists tenet than the Protestants Hereupon you took me by the hand and told me they were mad who read the Ancient Fathers and saw not they meant Christ was as really in the Sacrament as in Heaven The other was yet more remarkable and this that either your Grandfather or Father I know not which but I think your Grandfather was intimate with Mr. Calvin and when he had put out his Explication of Christ's presencein the Sacrament which dodg'd and shuffled between really and notreally that is between is and is-not he challeng'd Mr. Calvin with it and laid open to him the non-Sence and indefensibleness of it asking him why he put out so strange an Opinion which he was never able to make good at which Mr. Calvin took hold of his own finger and said See you this I would willingly cut it off on condition I had never put it out so To which your Grandfather reply'd You should then explain it some other way Mr. Calvin answer'd My Institutions are so spread all over France that 't is now too late Thus you letting me see by a Testimony very immediate that the late Authour of this Tenet which now so reigns all over England wish't his finger cut off when he writ it How you will reconcile this with the late new piece of the Rubrick in the Common-Prayer-book absolutely renouncing all real presence in which point the Church of of England formerly exprest her self abstractedly do you consider Sir I beseech you let this be a fair warning to you how you deal disingenuously for the future and pardon some of my expressions to my high provocation and exceeding great hast I am sure the worst of them is a Civility compar'd to the harsh carriage you have us'd towards your self in openly falsifying both my words and sence and causlesly wresting to an ill construction every passage you touch't yet not doing me the right to go about to answer any one in the least that so I might see by your Reasons you had Grounds to think as you writ Had you argu'd against me I know too well the right of a Writer to take it ill if you laid open and nam'd my conceived Faults though the names of them had been harsh Words but not even to attempt to confute them yet to flie into such Expressions is the very definition of railing I was extreme sorry to lay open the Fault of a Friend though my own Concern made it Fitting and your demerit Just and do assure you that onely the Injury to my Cause which went along in that action oblig'd me to this Vindication Setting aside the duty I owe to That I am still as ever Your true Friend and humble Servant J. S. A LETTER from The Authour of Sure-footing to his Answerer SIR I Am certainly inform'd there is an Answer to my Book intended and a Person chosen out for that Employment whose Name I am unconcern'd to know it being only his Quality as a Writer I have to do with I receive the Alarum with great chearfulness knowing that if my Adversary behaves himself well it will exceedingly conduce to the clearing and settling the main point there controverted But because there is difference between being call'd an Answer and being an Answer and that 't is extremely opposit to my Genius to be task't in laying open mens Faults even as Writers though it has been my unhappiness formerly to meet with Adversaries whose way of winning made that carriage my only duty wherefore to prevent as much as I am able all occasion of such unsavory oppositions and to make way to the clearing the point that so our Discourse may redound to the profit and satisfaction of our Readers I make bold to offer you these few Reflexions which in effect contain no more but a Request you would speak to the point and in such a way as is apt to bring the matter nearer a clearing This if you please to do you will very much credit your self and your endeavours in the opinion of all ingenuous persons If you refuse and rather chuse to run into Rhetorical Excursions and such Discourses as are apt to breed new Controversies not pertinent to the present one under hand you will extreamly disparage both your self your party and your Cause and give me an exceeding advantage against them all I shall also have the Satisfaction to have manifested before-hand by means of this Letter that I have contributed as much as in me lies to make you avoid those Faults which I must then be forc't to lay open and severely press upon you little to your Credit nor your Causes neither You being as I am informd and Reason gives it signally chosen out as held most able to maintain it 2. That there may be no more distance between us than what our Cause enforces I heartily assure you that though I highly dislike your Tenets negatively opposit to what we hold Faith and the Way of Writing I foresee you must take unless you resolve to love Candour better than your Cause as being Inconclusive and so apt to continue not finish debates yet I have not the least pique against yours or any mans Person Nor have I any particular aversion against the Protestant party rather I look upon it with a better eye than on any other Company whatever which has broke Communion with the Catholick Church It preserves still unrenounc't the form of Episcopacy the Church-Government instituted by Christ and many grave Solemnities and Ceremonies which make our Union less difficult Many of their soberest Writers acknowledge divers of the renounc't Tenets to be Truths some of them also profess to hold Tradition especially for Scripture's Letter and even for those Points or Faith-Tenets in which they and we agree that is where their Interest is not touch't I wish they would as heartily hold to it in all other Points which descended by it and look into the Virtue it has of ascertaining and declare in what that Virtue consists I am confident a little candour of confessing truly what they finde joyn'd with an endeavour of looking into Things rather than Words would easily make way to a fair Correspondence I esteem and even honour the Protestants from my heart for their firm Allegiance to his Sacred Majesty and his Royal Father This uniting them already with all sober Catholiks under that excellent notion of good Subjects and in the same point of Faith the Indispensableness of the duty of Allegiance we owe our Prince by Divine Law Lastly I declare that for this as well as for Charitable Considerations I have a very particular zeal for their reconcilement to their Mother-Church and that 't is out of this love of Union I endeavour so earnestly
are of Incomparable value not onely for the Divine Doctrin contain'd in them but also for many particular passages whose Source or first Attestation not being universal nor their nature much Practical might possibly have been lost in their conveyance down by Tradition Next follows those of Councils and Fathers and supposing Christ a perfect Law-giver 't is clear all they have to do with Faith is to witness the Churches beleef and the former of them to declare or explain Faith or the Churches Sence against obstinate Hereticks As such then their Books are to be valu'd that is exceedingly Next follow such as Euclid's or Archimedes his which express Science and those are of very great worth in regard they acquaint us with and manifest to our hands the Knowledge of the former world which being Speculative little of it could have come down by Tradition except when that Speculation became Practical and exprest it self in Matter by many useful or rather needful Arts Trades or Manufactures After these succeed Opinionative Books of which this last Age has produc't multitudes and these also are very useful if the Reader go not too credulously to work but have right Principles laid already in his head for then the variety of mens Conceits and their Reasons for them will hint to a Considerer diverse Consequences which otherwise the slowness and distractedness of our Reason would not have light of nay even the miscairiages of such Reasoners avail a wise man as Aristotle out of the contrary Opinions of Philosophers whom he saw failing in their Grounds gathered very happily the middle Truth These Books therefore are worth preserving Human Histories come next and These second Tradition in her object matter of Fact after she hath authenticated them and the Circumstances of their Writers There are others fit for Explications or Rational Declarations of a point by Similitudes allusions Examples such like as Pliny's Natural History Emblems Fictions others of an Ornamental Nature which being useful for Sermons and Discourses sutable to the middle size of the world 't is plain they are preservable With this caution that these and chiefly Opinionative books be either kept from the weak and credulous vulgar or else in the Preface to them some learned Authority declare in common how far they are to be credited lest by imposing on the reasons of the Generality they hinder the world's improvement Prayer-books and Recreation-books 't is almost as Evident they are to be preserv'd as 't is that Prayers and Recreations are to be used Onely caution is to be had the former be examin'd well and approov'd by Ecclesiastical Authority and that the later be chast and unabusive You have here my sentiment concerning Books against which you shall find nothing in Schism Dispatch't or any of my Writings In a word I would have every thing distinguish't examin'd by Grounds allow'd as far as 't is reasonable Nor wonder I much at your mistake of me in this point for you are not the onely man that thinks all Books and even Authority to be absolutely deny'd when they are sorted and rank't in their just degree of merit that is indeed settled and establish't for we Metaphysicians think nothing to stand firm but by being or being held-to-be truly what it is You denounce Wo to Colledges and Libraries if these men should prevail Yet you see now I leave you Libraries enow and permit you your onely darlings Books and onely desire you would love them wisely Neither will Colledges forfeit their Libraries to my Discourse Onely whereas you would have Schollers educated there onely pore on books Note and when they come to write quote I would have them take Principles along with them by which to judge and consider of what they read Without which 't is to be fear'd their much reading will do them more harm then good and even pervert honest natural Reason in them by filling their heads with a multitude of unconnected and unconnectible Ends of Sayings impossible to be ever postur'd in the frame of Reason and themselves unfurnish't of means to know which rather to adhere to which may sit them to talk indeed of many things like Parrats yet all the while for want of Principles know nothing of what they say If you would have Colledges consist of such I conceive I am a far better Friend to Colledges than your self are and that no great cause of Woe will come to them by my means But as our way in your conceit brings Woe to Colledges and Libraries so you affirm that Atheism and Mahometism will get by it By which I understand what a Disputant you are I beleeve you would quote Scriptures and Books to confute an Atheist or Mahometan whereas I conceive since all Discourse supposes an Agreement between the Discoursers in some Common Principle and they denie or undervalue your written proofs you must begin to confute them by Maxims of common Reason antecedent to all Authority For these Human Nature obliges all men to hold to unless they have quite irrationaliz'd themselves into perfect Scepticism whereas they reject or sleight the other which to render Efficacious you must go to work first with Principles of plain reason Your last Injury which I account the worst of all the rest is deliver'd thus Others of approved worth and abilities have met with this man who I think have done him more credit than he deserved This argues you are so set to abuse me that no Testimony though never so valid and confest to be such can stave you of And the Judgment or Veracity of my Friends who speak by Experience shall be question'd rather than you will be brought to entertain any conceit of me that 's handsome You leap voluntarily into Falsifications and ill-languag'd misconceits without any motive but are so restif and backward to think or speak in the lest civilly of me that witnesses of approved worth and abilities cannot win you to favourable apprehensions nor keep you from pursuing your resolute Censoriousness Had you found half that Testimony for the Authentickness of an old Writer in some mouse-eaten rag of Antiquity it had gone down currently with your Genius and bin next to Gospel I value not your Judgment of me but highly and equally dislike your humour as void of all Ingenuity whether it had been us'd to my self or another When you review Schism Dispatcht and see your mistakes I hope you will have a good conceit of my Friends at least for whom in this passage I apologize But that I may re-acquaint my self with you I am to tell you that you also have met me formerly and knew me very well Nay that I am exceedingly bound to you for the best favour in the world which is that accidentally you contributed to make me a Catholick But because 't is long ago I am forc't to remind you of it by two Tokens One is that in Durham-house where you at that time lodg'd when you came to
over-bear me with the conceiv'd Authority of other Divines resolving Faith in their Speculative Thoughts after another manner than I do since this can onely tend to stir up Invidiousness against my person which yet their charity secures me from and not any wayes to invalidate mv discourse For every one knows t is no news Divines should differ in their way of explicating their Tenet which they both notwithstanding hold never the less firmly and every learned man understands that the word Divine importing a man of Skill or Knowledge in such a matter no Divine has any Authority but from the Goodness of the Proofs or Reasons he brings and on which he builds that Skill Please then to bring not the empty pretence of a Divines Authority or Name to oppose me with and I shall freely give you leave to make use of the Virtue of their Authorities that is their Reasons against me as much as you will I easily yeeld to those great discoursers whoever they be a precedency in other Speculations and Knowledges to which they have been more addicted and for which they have been better circumstanc't In this one of the Ground of Faith both my much Practice my particular Application my Discourses with our nations best Wits of all sorts my perusing our late acute Adversaries and the Answers to them with other Circumstances and lastly my serious and industrious studying the Point join'd with the clearing Method God's Providence has led me to have left me as far as I know in no disadvantage What would avail you against me and our Church too for my Interest as defending Tradition is indissolubly linkt with Hers is to show that our Church proceeds not on Tradition or that in Her Definitions She professes to resolve Faith another way rather than mine or which is equivalent to rely on somthing else more firmly and fundamentally than on Tradition But the most express and manifold Profession of the Council of Trent to rely constantly on Tradition has so put this beyond all possible Cavil on my side that I neither fear your Skill can show my Grounds in the least subcontrary to hers nor the Goodness of any Learned and considering Catholik however some may conceive the Infallibility of the Church plac't ad abundantiam in somthing else will or can ever dislike it I expect you may go about to disgrace my Way as new But I must ask whether you mean the substance of it is new or onely that 't is now deeper look't into and farther explicated than formerly If you say the former my Consent of Authorities p. 126 127 c. has clearly shown the contrary and common sense tells us no other way was or could be possibly taken for the Generality of the Church at least in Primitive times till Scripture was publisht universally and collected If the later please to reflect that every farther Explication or Declaration as far as 't is farther must needs be new and so instead of disgracing us you most highly commend our reasons for drawing consequences farther than others had done before us Again if it be onely a farther Explication it is for that very reason not-new since the Sence of the Explication is the same with the thing explicated As 't is onely an Explication then 't is not-new as farther 't is indeed new but withal innocent nay commendable But there are three things more to be said on occasion of this objecting Catholik Divines One is that taking Tradition for the living voice of the present Church as I constantly declare my self to do not one Catholick does or can deny it for he would eo ipso become no-Catholick but an Arch-heretick and this all acknowledge In the thing explicated then that is in the notion of Tradition all agree with me and consequently in the Substance of my Explication nor can any do otherwise except they be equivocated in the Word Tradition and mistake my meaning which I conceive none will do wilfully after they have read here my declaration of it so unmistakably laid down The second thing is that an Alledger of those Divines will onely quote their Words as Speculaters not those in which they deliver themselves naturally as Christians or Believers which Sayings were they collected we should finde them unanimously sounding to my advantage and not one of them oppositely And lastly speaking of our Explication as to its manner Divines contradict one another in other kinds of Explications but not one Author can be alledged that expresly contradicts this which I follow 10. My sixth request is that you would speak to the main of my Book and not catch at some odd words on the by as it were Otherwise understanding Readers will see this is not to answer but to cavil 11. And because we are I hope both of us endeavouring to clear Truth I am sure we ought to be so therefore to acquit your self to your Readers that you ingenuously aim at it I conceive you will do your self a great deal of right and me but reason nay which is yet weightier do the common Cause best service if you will joyn with me to retrench our Controversie as much as we can Let us then avoid all Rhetorical Digressions and Affectations of Witty and fine Language which I have declin'd in my whole Book and chosen a plain downright manner of Expression as most sutable and connatutural to express Truth Likewise all Repetitions of what particulars others have said or answer'd before us such as are the Objections made by that ingenious person the L. Faukland and the Answers given them in the Apology for Tradition unless it be conceiv'd those Solutions are insufficient and Reasons be offer'd why they are judg'd so For I conceive it an endless folly to transcribe and reprint any thing others have done before us except it be Grounds which ought to be oft inculcated and stuck to and those particulars which we show to be not yet invalidated but to preserve still their strength Much less do I suspect it can fall under the thought of one who aims to discourse rationally such my Answerer ought to be to rake together all the filth and froth of the unwarrantable Actions or Opinions of some in the Church or to run on endlesly with multitudes of invective invidious sayings on his own head without proof then apply them to the Church as does the Disswader It would also very much conduce to the bringing our differences to a narrower compass if you would candidly take my Book endwayes and declare what in it is evident and so to be allowed what not What Principles are well laid or Consequences right drawn and what are otherwise To requite which favours I promise the same Carriage in my Reply to you By this means it will be quickly discover'd whether or no you have overthrown my Discourse by showing it ill coherent and how far 't is faulty that if I cannot clear it to be connected I may confess
my fault and endeavour to amend it For however I see my Grounds Evident yet I am far from judging my self Infallible in drawing my Consequences though I see withal the method I take will not let me err much Or if I do my Errour will be easily discoverable because I go not about to cloud my self in words but to speak out as plain as I can from the nature of the Thing 12. In the next place I earnestly request you as you love Truth not to shuffle of the giving me a full Answer nor to desist from your Enterprise as I hear a Certain person of great esteem for his learning and prudence has already done though you find some difficulty where to fasten upon the Substantial part of my discourse There are perhaps many difficult passages which my Shortness forc't me to leave Obscure These will naturally occasion mistake and Mistake will breed Objections to impugn me with Please if others fail to make use of those at least 'T is no discredit in you to mistake what 's obscure rather it argues a fault in me did not my circumstance of writing Grounds onely to Schollers excuse me that I left it so To make amends for which I promise you to render it clear when I see where it pinches you or others And on this score I owe very particular thanks to Mr Stillingfleet that by speaking clearly out his thoughts he gave me a fair occasion to open that point he impugn'd I think upon mistake of our Tenet 13. If you think fit somtimes to argue ad hominem be sure what you build on be either our Churches Tenet or mine for I am bound to defend nothing else If then you quote Fathers first see they speak as Fathers that is as Believers and Witnessers for so 't is evident our Church means them by her Expressions in the Council of Trent as also did Antiquity For both of them constantly alledge and stand upon Traditio Patrum not Opinio Patrum Next see you bring Consensus Patrum or an agreement at least of very many of them speaking as Witnesses otherwise you will not touch me nor our Church for she never abetted them further In case you bring Councils it would be very efficacious you would chuse such Testimonies if you can finde them as I brought from the Council of Trent that is such in which they declare themselves or the Circumstances give it they proceed upon their Rule of Faith For otherwise every one knows that Bishops in a Council have in them besides the Quality of Faith-Definers those also of Governours and of the most Eminent and solid Divines in God's Church If Scripture you must make Evident the Certainty of your way of arguing from it ere I or our Church shall allow it argumenative Thus much for Authority If you oppose me by my own Principles or Discourses of my Reason I must defend my self as well as I can One thing on this occasion I must mind you of 't is this that though you should conquer in this way of arguing ad hominem you onely conquer me as a Discourser by showing that I contradict my self not my Tenet for to prove that false you must fix your foot and build your discourse on some Certain Ground which barely my holding it on which your discourse ad hominem relies cannot make it You must build then on some Grounded Truth if you will go about to overthrow a pretended one Indeed if you can show Tradition contradicts her self you will do more than miracle and so must conquer But I fear not the Gates of Hell much less Man's wit can prevail against that impregnable Rock Onely I beseech you bring not as Parallels against our Tradition in hand which is a vast and strong stream other little petty rivulets sprung originally from the Sensations of two or three For then as one side was liable in a thing not known publikly to bely their Senses so the conveyance down of such sleight built Attestations may easily be self-contradictory In a word if you will argue take first into your Thoughts the nature of the Thing you argue against and then fall to work assoon as you will Now if you should chance to say you hold the Sayings of Fathers and Councils some at least to be Certain my Reason tells me from Principles that having renounc't Tradition which onely could ascertain them rational nature in you will not let you have any hearty conceit of their Convictiveness whatever you pretend but that you rawly alledge them and so let them go with a valeant quantum valere possunt That therefore we may have some security more than your bare word which Experience tells us is now affirmative now negative in this point as it best sutes your Interest or after a pretty Indifferent manner half-one-half-tother that your profession of holding to such Authorities is not hollow-hearted but rooted in your Reason 't is just your Readers should expect you would declare in what the virtue of Certifying consists and that They have this virtue This if you do you acquit your self to go to work solidly and you offer us fair play in giving us some hold of your Reason whereas a common Expression gives none This Procedure also will show when apply'd whether you are Justisiable or no for admitting some Authorities of that nature and rejecting others 14. My last request is that if in the course of your Answer you think fit to complain of me for bringing History and other Proofs heretofore commonly without more ado admitted into Incertainty please to amend the fault you finde and settle their Certainty on some better Principles than I have endeavour'd In the mean time 't is Evident my whole Book ayms at settling the Certainty of all Authority by evidencing the Certainty of First Authority upon which the Assuredness of History Fathers Councils Church Faith nay Virtue or Christian Life must all be built This is my way if you judge it incompetent to do the Effect spoken of be pleas'd to manifest it Unfit and show us a Better 15. Perhaps I may have demanded more of you in some particulars than is due from the strict duty of meerly answering in the Schools a bare denial or distinction is enough for a Respondent But I conceive we are not on these terms in regard we are not met face to face where the returns of the one to the other can be quick on every occasion This obliges us for the Readers satisfaction to enlarge our selves and bring reason for everything we affirm or deny lest we should be thought to do it gratis And your case here is particularly disadvantageous For if you go about to overthrow that on which I aym to show the Certainty of all Authority built and yet declare not on what your self hold them built and by your faithful promise to show it shortly give them strong hopes you will perform it you send them away very much dissatisfy'd either with you or with all the Authority in the world though built on Sensitive Knowledge Of which it being impossible Rational Nature should permit them to doubt they must needs dislike your attempt and have an ill conceit of your performance SIR I understand to my exceeding Satisfaction that multitudes of the most Eminent Solid and Ingenuous Wits of our Nation have been diligent perusers of my Book Consider their eyes are upon you while you Answer I am confident they will judge I have requested no more of you in this Letter but what 's reasonably due to their and my satisfaction and so will look your Answer should be correspondent They are weary of endless Contests about Faith and seeing we are not now controverting the signification of some ambiguous Testimony but penetrating deep into the very bowels of a point which is of the greatest concern in the whole world and pursuing in a method likely to decide the clearing of it their expectations are very much erected and attentively observing what will be the issue of this rational combat Frustrate not their desires to see Truth manifested by bringing the Question back from the plain open field of Evidence-in-our-method to a Logomachy or word-skirmish in a Wilderness of Talk out of which the Thread of Grounds or Principles had disent angled it To them therefore as well as your self I address this requesting those of them who are acquainted with my Answerer to press him to do himself me the world his Cause too if it can bear it the right due in Reason and here demanded This Sir if you will perform I shall lay aside the remembrance of the Justice I have to it and look upon it purely as a Favour and most obliging Civility to him who is next to Truth 's Feb. 6th 1665. Your Friend and well-wisher J. S. POSTSCRIPT IF you complain of this Fore-stalling as Unusual as long as it is rational you can have no reason to do so and it will appear such to him that considers it was an unusual Circumstance occasion'd it IT is this I had endeavour'd to bring Controversie from an Endless to a Conclusive Way and both my Reason and Experience made me apprehend my Protestant Answerer would have such strong Inclinations to bring it back into the way of quoting and glossing Testimonies that is into a wordish scanning a great part of all the Libraries in the World that a slender touch at it in my Book was not forcible and express enough to oblige him to take notice of it Having communicated therefore my thoughts with intelligent and ingenuous persons both Catholiks and Protestants and receiv'd their approbation I resolv'd and pursued it as you see And I hope the manifold Usefulness of it as shall be seen what way soever now you take upon you of answering will sufficiently justify my Action FINIS