saw the evill that came upon the place Besides these learned Trium virs there lived in this age Theodoret bishop of Cyrus a towne in Syria Cyrill bishop of Alexandria Leo the great and Gelasius bishops of Rome Vincentius Lirinensis a great impugner of Heresies as also Sedulius of Scotland whose Collections are extant upon Saint Pauls Epistlâ—s and his testimonies frequently cited by the learned L. Primate Doctour Vsher in his Trâ—atise of the ancient Irish Religion Oâ— the Scâ—iptures sufficiencie Saint Augustine saith In those things which are layd downe plainely in the Scriptures all those things are found which appertaine to faith and direction of life Bellarmine would shift off this place by saying That Austine meant that in Scripture are contayned all such points as are simply necessary for all to wit the Creed and the Commandements but beside these other things necessary for Bishops and Pastors were delivered by tradition but this stands not with Austines drift for in the Treatise alleadged de Doctrinâ— Christianâ hee purposely instructeth not the people but Christian Doctors and Teachers so that where he saith In the Scriptures are plainely set downe all things which containe Faith Hope and Charity he meaneth as elsewhere hee expresseth himselfe all things which are necessarily to bee believed or done not onely of the Lay people but even of Ecclesiastickes In like sort the same father saith Those things which seemed sufficient to the salvation of believers were chosen to bee written Vincentius Lirinensis saith that the Canon or Rule of Scripture is perfect abundantly sufficent in it selfe for all things yea more than sufficient neither is this a false supposall as a Iesuit pretends it to be but a grounded truth and the Authors doctrine Liâ—inensis indeed maketh first one generall sufficient Rule for all things the sacred Scriptures Secondly another usefull in some cases onely yet never to be used in those cases without Scriptures which is the Tradition of the Vniversall Church and generall consent of Fathers The first was used by the ancient Church from the worth that is in it selfe the other is used to avoyd the jarring interpretations of pervâ—rse Heretikeâ— that many times abuse the sacred Rule Standard of the Scripture Now we admit the Churches Interpretation as ministeriall to holy Scripture so it be conformable thereunto And wee say with the learned Rejoynder to the Iesuit Malounes Reply Bring us now one Scripture expounded according to Lirinensis his Rule by the Vniversall consent of the Primitive Church to prove Prayer to Saints Image worship in your sense and we will receive it Saint Cyril saith that All things which Christ did are not written but so much as holy writers judged sufficient both for good manners and Godly faith And in another place he saith The holy Scripture is sufficient to make them which are brought uâ— in it wise and most approved and furnished with most sufficient understanding Saint Hierome reasoneth Negatively from the Scriptures saying As we deny not those things that are written so we refuse those things that are not written That God was borne of a Virgin we believe because we reade it That Mary did marry after shee was delivered we beleeve not because we reade it not Saint Chrysostome saith that All those things that are in holy writ are right and cleere that Whatsoever is necessarie is manifest therein yea he calleth the Scripture The most exact Balance Square and Rule of Divine veritie This was the Fathers Rule of Faith of old and the same a perfect one but the Papists now adayes make it but a part of a Rule halfe a Rule and piece it with Tradition Of the Scripture Canon Saint Hierome who was well skilled in the tongues travailed much and saw the choycest Monuments of Antiquitie as also the best Libraries that the Easterne Parts could afford and was therefore likely to meete with the best Canon nameth all the Bookes which we admit and afterwards addeth Whatsoever is besides these is to be put amongst the Apocrypha and that therfore the Booke of Wisedome of Iesus the Sonne of Syrach of Iudith Tobias and Pastor are not in the Canon The same Hierome having mentioned the Booke of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus and delivered his opinion that it is untruly called the Wisedome of Salomon and attributed to him then addeth That as the Church readeth Iudith Tobias and the Maccabees but receiveth them not â—or Canonicall Scriptures so these two Bookes â—amely the Wisedome of Salâ—mon and Iesus the Sonne of Syrach doth the Church reade for the edification of the pâ—ople not to confirme the authority of any doctrine in the Church Objection The Carthaginian Councel received those Books which you account Apocryphall Answer They received them in Canonem Morum not in Canonem Fidei It is true indâ—ed that Saint Austine and the African Bishops of his time and some other in that Age finding these Bookes which Hierome and others rejâ—ct as Apocryphall to be joyned with the other and together read with them in the Church seeme to account them to be Canonicall but they received them onely into the Ecclesiasticke Canon serving for Example of life and instruction of manners and not into any part of the Rule of Faith or Divine Canon as Saint Austine speaking of the Bookes of the Maccabees distinguisheth saying This reckoning is not found in the Canonicall Scriptures but in other Bookes as in the Maccabees plainely distinguishing betweene the Canonicall Scriptures and the Bookes of the Maccabees Wherein saith he There may be something found worthy to be joyned with the number of those miracles yet hereof will we have no care for that we intend the miracles Divini Canonis which are received in the Divine Canon Of the booke of Iudith he tels us The Iewes never received it into the Canon of Scriptures and withall there he professeth That the Canon of the â—ewes was most Authenticall Touching the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus he tels us that They were called Salomons onely for some likâ—nâ—sse of Stile but the Learned doubt whether they bâ—e his Lastly the Councel of Carthage whereat Saint Austine was present Prescribing that no bookes should be read in the Church as Canonicall but such as indeed are Canonicall leaveth out the booke of Maccabees as it appeareth by the Greeke Edition though they have shuffled them into the Latine which argueth suspicion of a forged Canon Now to this ancient evidence of Hierome and Austine the Papists make but a poore Reply Canus saith that Hierome is no rule of Faith and that the matter was not then sufficiently sifièd Bellarmine saith I admit that Hierome was of that opinion because as yet a Generall Councel had decreed nothing touching those bookes and Saint Austin might likewise doubt thereof so that by Bellarmines confession Hierome
they do meane the Pope for the time being Now to this height the Pope came under pretence of the Churches government the Churches discipline racking the spirituall censure to a civill punishment by the Church solemnities in crowning Emperors by his Excommunications Absolutions and Dispensations he rose to his greatnesse of state by the doctrine of workes meritorious Iubilees Pardons and Indulgences hee maintained his State And now I come to shew out of good Authors that in nine severall weighty poynts of Religion the best guides of Gods Church for the space of 1500 yeares have taught as the Church of England doth THE FIRST CENTVRIE From the first yeare of Grace unto the yeare One Hundred Christ Iesus and his Apostles the Protestants Founders PAPIST WHom doe you name in this first Age that taught the Protestant Faith PROTESTANT I name our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus and his Apostles Saint Paul and his Schollers Titus and Timothie together with the Churches which they planted as that of the Romanes Corinthians and the rest These I name for our first Founders and top of our kin as also Ioseph of Arimathea that buried Christs body a speciall Benefactor to the Religion planted in this land These taught for substance and in the positive grounds of religion as we doe in our Articles Liturgies Homilies and Apologies by publike authoritie established in our Church of England Besides these there were but few Writers in this age whose undoubted Works have come to our hands yet for instance sake I name that blessed Martyr of Christ Ignatius Bishop of Antioch who for the name of Iesus was sentenced to bee dâ—voured of wild beasts which hee patiently indured saying I am the Wheat or graine to bee ground with the teeth of beasts that I may be pure Bread for my Masters tooth let fire rackes pulleys yea and all the torments of Hell come on mee so I may winne Christ. Here also according to the Roman Register I might place Dionysius Areopagita whom they usually place in this first Age as if hee were that Denys mentioned in the Actes whereas indeed hee is a post natus and in all likelihood lived about the fourth Age and not in this first for Denys saith That the Christians had solemne Temples like the Iewes and the Chancell severed with such and such sanctification from the rest of the Church whereas the Christians in this fiâ—st age made their assemblies to prayer both in such private places and with such simplicitie as the Apostles did and as the times of persecution suffered them Againe Denys tells us that when hee wrote Monkes were risen and they of credit in the Churches and many Ceremonies to hallow them whereas in the Apostles time when the true Dionysius lived Monkes were not heard of yea Chrysostome saith That when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Hebrewes there was not then so much as any footstep of a Monke PA. I challenge Saint Denys for ours hee was as our Rhemists say all for the Catholikes PRO. Take him as he is and as he comes to our hands hee is not wholly yours but in some things cleane contrary to you as namely in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper wherein you vary from us most Besides hee hath not your sole receiving of the Priest nor ministring under one kind to them who receive nor Exhortations Lessons Prayers in a tongue which the people understand not he hath not your Invocation of Saints noâ— adoration of creatures nor sacrificing of Christ to God nor praying for the soules in purgatory so that in things of substance and not of ceremony onely he is ours and not yours as I hope will appeare by his Writings for we will for the time suppose him to be a Father of this first age although the bookes which beare Saint Denys his name seeme to bee written in the fourth or fifth age after Christ. PAP Can you proove that Christ and his Apostles taught as you doe PRO. Wee have cleare testimonies of Scripture which appoint Gods people to receive the blessed Cup in the Sacrament and to be present at such a divine service as themselves understand wee have expresse command forbidding Image-worship against Invocation of Saints it is said that Abraham knoweth us not and Isaac is ignorant of us and the blessed Angel refused all religious honour and Adoration Likewise against Merit of workes and workes of Super-erogation it is said that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall bee revealed in us and that wee are unproâ—itable servants when we have done all that was commanded us we have but done that which was our dutie to doe and the like PA. You alleadge Scripture and so doe wee yea in some things the Scripture is plaine for us as where it is said This is my Bodie PRO. What though it make for you in shew so doth it for the Anabaptists where it is said that the Christians had all things common you will not hence inferre that because in such an extremitie their charitie for the reliefe of others made things common concerning the use that therefore we should have no property in the goods that God hath given us It is not the shew and semblance of words but the sense thereof that imports the truth Saint Paul sayes of his Corinths Ye are the body of Christ yet not meaning any Transubstantiation of substance but hâ—reof anon in his due place PA. The Scriptures make not for you but as you have translated them PRO. For any point we hold we referre our selves to the Originalls yea wee say further let the indifferent Christian Reader who hath but tollerable understanding of the Latine Tongue compare our English translations with those which your owne men Pagnine Arias Montanus and others have published and they will finde but little countenance for Poperie and namely for Communion in one kind and Service in a strange Tongue which as is already proved hath bene decreed directly contrary to Gods expresse word but let us come to the particulars Of the Scriptures sufficiency and Canon The Church of England holds that Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation so that theâ—e is no doctrine necessary for our everlasting salvation but that is or may bee drawne out of that Fountaine of truth as being either expressely therein contained or such as by sound inference may bee deduced from thence and this is witnessed by Saint Paul saying that they are able to make us wise unto salvation that the man of God may bee perfited and throughly furnished unto all good workes which they should not bee able to doe if they contained not a perfect doctrine of all such poynts of faith as we are bound to bâ—leeve and duties to bee practised And if it be said that S. Paul speakes of the man of God such an one as
could at the samâ— time dictate unto seven severall Clarkes or Notaries hee was of such esteeme that divers would say Malle se cum Origene errare quà m cum alijs verâ— sentire that they had rather erre with Origen than thinke aright with others hee exhorted others to Martyrdome and from his child-hood was himselfe desirous of the honour thereof but in the seventh persecution under Decius hee fainted and his heart was so overset with feare to have his chaste body defiled with an ugly Ethiopian that hee chose rather to offer incense to the Idoll then to bee so filthily abused for this cause hee was excommunicated by the Church of Alexandria and for very shame fled to Iudea wherâ— he was not only gladly received but also requested publikely to preach at Hierusalem But so it was falling upon that place of the Psalmist Vnto the ungodly saith God why doest thou preach my Lawes and takest my Covenant in thy mouth whereas thou hatest to bee reformed and hast cast my words behind thee Psalm 50.16.17 These woâ—ds so deepely wounded his heart with griefe that hee closed the booke and sate downe and wept and all the congregation wept with him In expounding the Scriptures hee was curious in searching out of Allegories and yet falling on that place Math. 19.12 Some have gelded themselves for the kingdome of heaven hee tooke those words literally and gelded himselfe to the end hee might live without all suspition of uncleannesse whereas hee expounded almost all the rest of the Scriptures figuratively Hee held a fond opinion concerning the paines of devils and wicked men after long torments to bee finished It is usually said of him Vbi bene scripsit nemâ— melius ubi malè nemo pejus where hee wrote wellâ— nâ—ne better so that wee may say of him as Ieremy of his figs the good none better the evill nonâ— worse Ier. 24.2 Cypriaâ—â— was a learned godly Bishop and glorious Martyr he erred indeed in that he would have had such as had beene baptized by Heretikes if afterwards they returned to the true Church to bee rebaptized yet he was not obstinate in his errour hee was as Aâ—stin saith of him not onely learned but docible and willing to bee learned and that hee would most easily have altered his opinion had this question in his life time beene debated by such learned and holy men as afterwards it was so that S. Austin makes this observation touching Cyprians errour hee therefore saw not this one truth touching Rebaptization that others might see in him a more eminent and excellent truth to wit his humilitie modestie and châ—ritie Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon Tertullian though hee stood for Ceremoniall traditions unwritten and for Doctrinall traditions which were first delivered from the Apostles by word of mouth and afterwards committed to writing yet dealing with Hermogenes the Hereticke in a question concerning the faith whether all things at the beginning were made of nothing presseth him with an Argument ab Authoritate negativè Whether all things were made of any subject matter I have as yet read no where saith hee Let those of Hermogenes his shop shew that it is written if it bee not written let them feare that wâ—e which is allotted to such as adde or take away but for himselfe hee professeth that hee adoreth the fulnesse of the Scripture And why may not wee also argue negatively touching divers Tenets of Poperie that from the beginning it was not so Math. 19.8 In the two Testaments saith Origen eveâ—y word that appertaineth to God may bee required and discussed and all knowledge of things out of them may be understood but if any thing doe remaine which the holy Scripture doth not determine no other third Scripture ought to be received for to authorize any knowlâ—dge Origen in his exposition upon the first Psalme faith wâ—e may not bee ignorant there are two and twenty bookes of the old Testament after the Hebrewes which is the number of the Letters among them This is likewise witnessed by Eusebius that as Origen received the Canon of the Iewes so likewise he reiected those sixe bookes which wee terme Apocriphall with the Iewes Of Communion under both and the number of Sacraments Tertullian speaking in generall of Christians saith the flesh feedeth upon the body and blood of Christ that the soule may be fatâ—ed as it were of God hee speakes of the body and blood of Christ as distinct things saying Corpore sanguine and elsewhere he mentions the Cup given to a Lay-woman saying from whose hands shall shee desire the Sacramentall Bread of whose Cup shall shee participate hee speaketh of a Christian woman married to an Infidell and sheweth the inconvenience of such a match whereby the faithfull wife was like to bee debarred of the comfort of receiving the Sacrament and drinking of the Lords Cup. Origen maketh this question What people is it that is accustomed to drinke blood and hee answereth the faithfull people Hereunto Bellarmine saiâ—h the people did drinke but they had no commâ—nd so to doe where hee grants us that communicating under both kinds was the Agend or Church practise in this age besides Origen in this very place alleadgeth Christs praecept for the Cup out of the sixt of Iohn Cyprian speaking of such as in time of persâ—cution had lapsed and not stucke to the truth and therâ—upon were barred from the Communion hee desires that upon their repentance they may bee admitted and hee gives this reason How shall wee sit them for the Cup of Martyrdome if before wee admit them not by right of Communion to drinke of the Lords cup in the Church And againe Because some men out of ignorance or simplicity in Sanctifying the Cup of the Lord and ministring it to the people doe not that which Iesus Christ our Lord and God the Authour and Institutour of this Sacrifice did and taught Where albeit the maine scope of the Epistle bee to prove the necessity of administring the Sacrament in Wine and not in meere water as the Aquarij did yet on the bye he discovers the practice of the Church for both kinds and saith expressely that the Cup was ministred or delivered to the people Tertullian in divers places of his works acknowledgeth the same Sacraments with us to wit Baptisme and the Lords Supper and Beatus Rhenanus in his notes upon Tertullian observes the same and for this hee is brought under the Spanish inquisition and roughly entertained for his paines as appeares by a Censure passed on him and extant in the latter end of Tertullians Works Of the Eucharist Tertullian disputing against Marcion who denied that Christ had a true Body confuteth him by a reason drawne from the Sacrament of the Supper in this manner A Figure of a Body presupposeth a true Body for of a shew or phantasie there can be no Figure But
in all matters of Religion he agreed fully with the Catholike Roman Church PRO. What his Religion was let his owne workes testifie Guicciâ—rdine saith that amongâ—â— other things hâ—e was charged That his doctrine was not fully Catholike hee meaneth Roman Catholike and Comminees saith That one of the Frier Minorites his professed adversary charged him to be an Heretike so that in his opinion he was not in each point a Roman Catholike And to take the Popes procesâ—e which was published against him as wee find it in Guicciardine Therein it is given out that Savonarola had a holy desire that by his meanes a Generall Councell might be called wherein the corrupt customes of the Clergy might bee reformed and the estate of the Church of God so farre wandred and gone astray might bee reduced so farre forth as was possible to the likenesse of that it was in the Apostles time or those that were neerest unto them and if he could bring so great and so profitable a worke to effect hee would thinke it a farre greater glory then to obtaine the Pope-dome it sâ—lfe in the same Processe it is contained how hee despised the Popes commandements and returned publikely to his olâ— office of preaching affirming that the Popâ—s censures published against him were unjust and of no force as also that the matters by him prophesiâ—d were not pronounced by divine revelation but by his proper opinion grounded upon the doctrine and observation of holy Scripture And now let the Reader consider by that which Guicciardine reports of Savonarola and namely touching the opinion he had of the Popes authoritie and his excommunications touching generall Councels and the deformitie and degeneration of the Churches state in respect of antiquitie as also what Comminees saith of his preaching of the Reformation of the Church and that by the Sword as formerly our Grosthead Bishop of Lincolne foretold and then let him judge of what profession he was likely to be Now for the poynt of faction and sedition It is true indeâ—d that there was a great faction in Florence not onely amongst the Laity but the Spiritualty alâ—o but it doth not appeare that Hierome was the Author or nourisher of this discord or that he had any hand in that tumult wherein Francisco Valori a principall favourer of Savonarola was slaine When Saint Paul preached the Gospel in Asia the whole Citty of Ephâ—sus was full of confusion and they rushed into the Common place and caught Gajus and Aristarchus Pauls companions of his journey Act. 19. ver 29. Was Paul or his companions the occasion of this tumult Savonarola preached the word of God in Florence his adversaries tooke Armes entred the Monasterie of Saint Marke where hee was and drew him and two of his brethren Dominick and Silvester out of the Covent and put them into the common prisons upon occasion of a mutinie in the Citie but Hierome and his fâ—llowes occasioned not this tumult It was indeed pâ—â—tended thaâ— he sided with the one faction in Florence but Philip de Comminees who knew him better than Paâ—sons toucheth that which brought the Frâ—er to the sâ—ake namâ—ly In that hee prophâ—sied and that so vehemently and freely of the comming in of forraine forces and of a King that by force of Armes should reforme the corrupt state of the Church and chastise the Tyrants of Italy this was it saith he which made the Pope and the state of Florence hate him Thus have we heard of his life and death there remaineth nothing now but his Epiâ—aph wherewith Flaminius a famous Poet of Italy hath honoured him And thus it is Dum fera flaâ—ma tuos Hieronyme pascitur artus Religio flevit dilaniâ—ta comas Flevit et ô dixit crudeles parcite flammae Paâ—ite sunt isto viscera nostra rogo That is Whiles Hiâ—rome to the firy stake was led Religion tore her haire and wept and said You cruell flames oh spare this tender heart For whiles he burns Religion feels the smart And so I proceed to the severall points in question Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Geâ—son makes the word of Christ the sole authenticall ground of faith and the onely infallible rule to decide controvâ—rsies The Scriptures saith he is given unto us as a sufficient and infallible Rule for the governement of the whole body of â—he Church and each part thereof unto the end of the world What evill saith the same Gerson hath followed upon the contempt of holy Scripture which doubtlesse is sufficient for the government of the Church for otherwise Christ had beene an unperfect Law giveâ— experâ—eâ—ce will teach That Wickliffe affirmeth that nâ—ither Friers nor Prelates may define aâ—y thing in matters of faith unlesse they have the auâ—hority of sacred Scripture or some speciall revelation I dislikâ— not saith Waldensis but his waywardnesse and craft I condemne and thinke it necessary lest wee wrest the Scâ—â—ptures and erre in the interpretation of them to follow the â—radition of the Church expounding them unto us and not to trust to our own private singular conceits This is that which Vincentius Lirinensis long since delivered Alphonsus Tostatus saith Although the bookes in question bee received of the Church yet are thâ—y not of any solide auâ—hority and thâ—refore they are improfitable to prove and confirme those things which are called in question according to Saint Hierome Thomas Waldensis cites out of Hierome the Canâ—n of the old Testament in these words As there are twâ—nty two letters by which we write in Hebrew all that we speake so there are accounted twenty two bookes by which as letters wee are instructed in the doctrine of God and withall addeth That the whole Canonicall Scripture is contained in the two and twenty bookes Dionysius Carthusiâ—nus in writing upon Ecclesiasticus saith That booke is not of the Conon that is amongst the Canonicall Scriptures although there be no doubt made of the truth of that booke This is likewise confessed by Pererius the Iesuite saying Dionysius Carthusianus and Lyra doe not deny the History of Susanna to be true but they deny the bookes of Iudith Tobit and the Maccabees to apertaine to the Cononicall Scriptures And the like observation touching Lyra is made by Picus Mirandula and Picus himselfe would have us note that many things which in the Decrees are reckoned for Apocryphall and so accounted by Hierome are neverthelesse read in the Divine Service and many things also which some hold not to bee truâ— Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments The Councel of Constance did not simply forbid the ministring of the Sacrament in both kinds but the teaching of the people that of necessity it must be so ministred for so we find in the thirteenth Session of the said Councel That if any should obstinately maintaine that it was unlawfull or â—rronious to receive in one kind he ought to be punished
Eleutherius time or in the Apostles dayes for had it beene so the Britaines who changed not their Faith but kept still the substantiall grounds thereof would likewise have held the Popes Supremacie yea doubtlesse those Catholike Bishops of Britaine had they but knowne and believed as now it is given out the Pope to be Iure divinâ— by divine right and Gods appointment the Monarch of the whole Church they would have yeelded obedience to Austine and in him to the Pope but they opposed it as being urged by those of the Romish faction so that it was not then as now it is made one of the chiefe heads of the Romish Faith for now a dayes men are made to believe that out of the Communion of the Romane Church nothing but hell can be looked for and subjection to the Bishop of Rome as to the visible Head of the Vniversall Church Is required as a matter necessary to salvation But this was no part nor Article of the ancient Britaines Creed and therefore they withstood it and if it were no Article of Faith them surely it is none now a dayes To close up this point hereby is overthrowne the maine Article of the Romane Creed For if as the Papists say and sweare there be no salvation out of the Romane Communion then is the case like to goe hard with the one thousand two hundred British Monks of Bangor stiled Saints and Martyrs that died out of the Roman Communion and yet within the Communion of Saints But this Grand Imposture of the now Romane Church is notably discovered by the learned and zealous Bishop of Coventrie and Lichfield Doctor Morton now Lord Bishop of Durham My conclusion shall be this out of the holy Catholike Church of the Creede there is no salvation but out of the fellowship of the Romane Church there hath beene and is salvation as appeares in the case of these our British Martyrs therefore the present Romane Church is not as it is pretended the Catholike Church of the old Creede but a particular of the new Trent Creede THE SEVENTH CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 600. to 700. PAPIST PRoceede to name your men PROTESTANT I name Gregory the great whom Bellarmine usually placeth in this seventh Age for that hee lived unto the yeare 605 what time as Trithemius saith he dyed Now also lived his Scholler Isidore Bishop of Sivil in Spaine usually termed Isidore the younger Now also by Bellarmine's account though others make him much ancienter lived Hesychius Bishop of Hierusalem with other Worthies as namely the Britaines of Wales as also Saint Aidan and Finan now also was held the sixth Generall Councell PA. I challenge Saint Gregory hee is ours PRO. Gregorie indeed lived in a troublesome time whiles the Goths and Vandals overranne Italie and Rome was besieged by the Lombards There was then also great decay in knowledge and scarcity of able men to furnish the Church withall and few in Italie as Baronius saith that were skilled both in Greeke and Latine Yea Gregory himselfe proâ—esseth that hee was ignorant of the Greeke tongue yet was he stâ—led the great and yet not so great as godly and modest It is commonly said of him That he was the last of the good Bishops of Rome and the first of the bad ones That he was the first Pope and leader of the Pontifician companies and the last Bishop of Rome Hee was supeâ—stitious in diverse things hee lived in a declining age and as in time so in some truths came short of his predecessours yet he taught not as your Trent Papists doe but joyned with us in diverse weighty poynts of Religion Of the Scriptures sufficiencie and Canon Gregory held the Scriptures sufficiencie saying Whatsoever serveth for edification is contayned in the volume of the Scriptures wherein are all resolutions of doubts fully and plentifully to be found they being like a full Spring that cannot be drawne drye Hee approved the vulgar use of the Scriptures exhorting a Lay-man to study them because saith hee they bee as it were Gods Letter or Epistle to his Creature wherein he reveales his whole minde to him And lest any complaine of the difficulty of the Scriptures he compares them to a River wherein there are as well shallow Foords for Lambes to wade in as depths for the Elephant to swim in And Isidore saith that the Scripture is common to petty Schollers and to Proficients And whereas Heretickes use to alleadge Scripture for themselves Gregory saith they may bee confuted by Scripture it selfe even as Goliath was slaine with his owne sword Gregory held the bookes of Maccabees Apocryphall Wee doe not amisse saith he if wee produce a testimony out of the booke of Maccabees though not Canonicall yet published for the iâ—struction of the Church And Occham accordingly reports Gregories judgement saying The booke of Iudith Tobias the Maccabees Ecclesiasticus and Wisedom are not to bee received for the confirmation of any doctrine of Faith Isidore saith In these Apocryphall although there be some truth to be found yet by reason of the many errours therein they are not of Canonicall authâ—rity Of Communion under both kindes and number of Sacraments Saint Gregory in his Dialogues if they be his tells us of some that were going to Sea some whereof happily were Lay-men carryed with them the consecratâ—d body and bloud of the Lord in the Ship and there received it And againe His body is there recâ—ived his flesh is there divided for the peoples salvation his bloud is not now powred out upon the hands of Infidels but into the mouth of the Faithfull Hee speakes expressely of the Faithfull and of the people And in his Homily touching the Passeover he saith What is meant by the bloud of Christ you have now learned not by hearing of it but by drinking of it which bloud is then put on both posts when it is drawne in both by the mouth of the body and of the heart Herein Gregory resembles the partaking of Christ's bloud in the Eucharist to the bloud of the Paschall Lambe in the twelfth of Exodus striken upon both poâ—ts of the doore thereby noting the mouth and the heart each whereof after their manner receive Christ for with the mouth and corporally wee receive the wine which is the Sacrament of his bloud and with our heart and by faith we receive the thing Sacramentall the bloud it selfe Besides hee speakes expressely of drinking and the termes hee useth hauritur and perfunditur That Christ's bloud is shed and taken as a draught demonstrate that he speaks not of partaking Christ's bloud as it is joyned to his body and inclosed in his veines but as severed from it as my worthy and learned friend Doctor Featly hath observed Isidore saiâ—h The fourth prayer is brought in for the kisse of Peace that all bâ—ing reconciled by charity may
the Friars be not liegemen to the King ne subject to his lawes For though they stealen mens Children to enter into their orders it is sayd there goes no law upon them Friars saien apertly that if the King and Lords and other men stonden thus against their begging and other things Friars will goe out of the land and come againe with bright heads and looke whether this be treason or no Friart faynen that though an Abbot and all his Covent ben open traytours yet the king may not take from them an halfe penny Friars also destroyen the Article of Christian faith I beliefe a common or generall Church for they teachen that thâ— men that shall be damned be members of holy Church and thus they wedden Christ and the divel together Friars by hypocrisie binden men to impossible things that they may not doe for they binden them over the commandements of God as they themselves say Friars wast the treasure of the land forgetting Dispensations vaine pardons and priviledges But of the pardon that men usen to day fro the Court of Rome z they have no sikernes that is certainty by holy writ ne reason ne ensample of Christ or his Apostles By this we see that Wickliffe stoutly opposed those Innovatours the Friers who like their successours the Iesuites taught and practised obedience to another Soveraigne than the King persecution for preaching the Gospell exemption of Cleaâ—gy-men the use of Legends in the Church and reading of fables to the people pardons and indulgences the heresie of an accident without a subject singular and blind obedience and lastly workes of Supererogation Now whereas Wickliffe was reputed an Heretike it is likely that this imputation was laid upon him especially by Friars to whose innovations he was a professed enemy PAP Many exceptions are taken against Wickliffe and namely that hee held That God ought to obey the divell PROT. Our learned Antiquary of Oxford Doctour Iames hath made Wickliffes Apology and answered such slanderous objections as are urged by Parsons the Apologists and others Now for the objection made there is neither colour nor savour of truth in it there was no such thing objected to him in the Convocation at Lambeth neither can his adversaries shew any such words out of any booke written by Wickliffe although he wrote very many Indeed wee finde the quite contrary in his workes saith his Apologist for Wickliffe saith That the divel is clepid that is called Gods Angell for he may doe nothing but at Gods suffering and that he serveth God in tormenting of sinfull men The phrase indeed is strange and if either he or any of his Schollers used such speeches their meaning haply was that God not in his owne person but in his creatures yeeldeth obedience to the devill that is sometimes giveth him power over his creatures PAP Wickliffe taught That Magistrates and Masters are not to be obeyed by their subjects and servants so long as they are in deadly sinne PROT. Even as light House-wives lay their bastards at honest mens doores so you falsely father this â—is-begotten opinion on Wickliffe which some of your owne side say belongs to one Iohn Parvi a Doctour of Sorbone And indeed in right it is your owne inasmuch as you upon colour and pretence of heresie in Princes absolve subjects from their Allegeance and raise them up in armes against their lawfull Soveraigne witnesse your bloody massacres in France the death of the two last Henryes in France the untimely death of the Prince of Orange the many attempts and treasons against Queene Elizabeth as also that hellish designe of the Gun-powder treason But supppose Wickliffe said so yet his words might have a tollerable construction to wit that a Prince being in state of mortall sinne ceased to be a Prince any longer he ceased to be so in respect of any spirituall right or title to his place that he could pleade with God if he were pleased to take the advantage of the forfeiture but that in respect of men he had a good title still in the course of mundane justice so that whosoever should lift vp his hand against him offered him wrong Wickliffe indeede admonisheth the King and all other inferiour Officers and Magistrates as elsewhere he doth Bishops That he beareth not the sword in vaine but to doe the office of a King well and truely to see his Lawes rightly executed wherein if hee faile then he telleth him that he is not properly and truely a King that is in effect and operation which words are spoken by way of exhortation but so farre was hee from mutiny himselfe or perswading others to rebellion that never any man of his ranke for the times wherein he lived did more stoutly maintaine the Kings Supremacy in all causes as well as over all persons ecclesiasticall and civill against all usurped and forreine Iurisdiction and one of his reasons was this that otherwise he should not be King over all England but Regulus parvae partis a petty governour of some small parts of the Realme PAP Wickliffe taught that so long as a man is in deadly sinne he is no Bishop nor Prelate neither doth he consecrate or baptize PROT. If Wickliffe said so he sayd no more than the Fathers and a Councell said before him Saint Ambrose saith Vnlesse thou embrace and follow the good-worke of a Bishop a Bishop thou canst not be The Provinciall Councell saith Whosoever after the order of Bishop or Priesthood shall say they have beene defiled with mortall sinne let them be remooved from the foresaid orders The truth is Wickliffe lived in a very corrupt time and this made him so sharpely inveigh against the abuses of the Cleargy but abusus non tollit rei usum and yet Wickliffe writeth against them that will not honour their Prelats And hee elsewhere expresseth his owne meaning that it is not the name but the life that makes a Bishop that if a man have the name of a Prelate and doe not answere the reason thereof in sincerity of doctrine and integrity of life but live scandalously and in mortall sinne that he is but a nomine-tenus Sacerdos a Bishop or Priest in name not in truth Neverthelesse his ministeriall Act may be availeable for thus saith Wickliffe Vnlesse the Christian Priest be united unto Christ by grace Christ cannot be his Saviour nec sine falsitate â—icit verba sacramentalia Neither can he speake the Sacramentall words without lying licèt prosint capacibus Though the worthy receiver be hereby nothing hindred from grace PAP Wickliffe held that it was not lawfull for any Ecclesiasticall persons to have any temporall possessions or property in any thing but should begge PROT. This imputation is untrue for what were the lands and goods of Bishops Cathedrall Churches or otherwise belonging to Religious houses which were given Deo Ecclesiâ— were they
what Church did Luther joyne himselfe and why left hee the Roman Church PRO. Hee joyned himselfe in point of faith to the ancient Primitive and Apostolicke Church that went before him and for his present Communion to that sound part of the Roman Church which then with him hated the corruptions which the Romish faction for the maintenance of their pompe and profit had upheld In particular hee joyned himselfe to those honourable personages the Dukes of Saxony and Wittenberge and the Earle of Mansfield and to such Châ—istian congregations as within their territories began to abandon Poperie and reforme themselves He received Ordination in the Church of Rome this ordination for substance was good and by vertue thereof hee preached tâ—e word and brought the people to see and detest not the Church of Rome but her corruptions from whence hee severed himselfe to wit from the Roman Court and faction therein so that hee leapt not out of the Church hee kept himselfe still within the barne-floore thereof onely he leapt out of the huske of popish errours Now this his separation and ours from errour â—s warranted by Gods word since Gods people are commanded and that upon a grievous penalty to depart out of Babylon and spirituaâ—l Sodome and this we â—ake to be Rome since your owne Iesuites that have commented on the Revelation call Rome Babylon and that this is to be understood not onely of heathâ—n Rome but of Rome Christian after that it had forsaken heaâ—henisme and had received the faith of Christ and turned againe from that unto Antichristianisme PA. If any Protestant Church were in being before or at Luthers appearing then would they upon his preaching have acknowledgâ—d him and joyned themsâ—lves to him but as Bellâ—rmine saâ—th they did not PRO. Alphoâ—sus de Casiro saith Neither did Luther in this age come â—orth alone but accompanied with a grâ—at troope as with a Guard waiting for Lâ—tâ—er as for tâ—eir Captaine and Leader such were Philip Melanchton Conradus Pâ—llicanâ—s â—ambert Fabricius Capito â—siâ—â—der Stuâ—mius aâ—d Maâ—tin Bucer and thâ—se saith he seemed to have â—xpectâ—d him bâ—fore hee came and upon his comming dâ—lclâ—aâ—e unto him so that hee wanted noâ— such as gave him the right hands of fellowship Galat. 2.9 Carolus Miâ—titius being sent from Pope Leo to Frederike professed That all the way as he came having sâ—undâ—d mâ—ns affâ—ctions hee found three to favour Luthâ—r for one that favoured the Pope And Lutâ—er professeth that the applause of the world did much support him most men being weary of the frauds and wicked pâ—actices of the Romanists Neither are these penurious examples to give instance in Melanchton Pellican Bucer and others as Brereley scornefully calleth iâ— for they were as great schollâ—rs as that age affâ—â—ded Pâ—llican was one who made great helpe for râ—viving tâ—e Hebrew tongue and was Luthers ancient and so was Ioâ—n Capnio or Reuchlin who brought Greeke and Hebrew into Germany Now bâ—sides his câ—evals and contemporaries the Waldâ—nâ—es as also Iohn Hâ—sse bare a torch before Luther and shâ—wed him his way PA. Master Brereley saith That Melanchton Pâ—lican and Bucer were originally Catholikes and followed Luthers example in revolting from the Catholike Church PRO. Saint Paul was originally a Pharisee and yet hee did well to forsake the leaven of their traditions and embrace the doctrine of the Gospell And so did Saint Austin the errour of the Manichees and Pelagians and embraced the truth of the Gospell Besides they left not the Catholike but the Roman Church nor that altogether but the faction that was therein to wit the papacie PA. Schlusselburg saith It is impudencie to say that many learned men in Germany did hold the doctrine of the Gospell before Luther PRO. Schlusselburgs words are these Vtenhovius writes impudently that he heard Pellican affirme that many learned men in Germany held the doctrine of the Gospel before Luther appeaâ—ed and that Pellican himselfe impugned the popish purgatory before the name of Luther was heard of Now why may wee not beleeve Vtenhovius and Pellican affirmâ—ng the same and being honest men as well as Schlusselburg denying it Besides admit there were not any in Germany yet there might be elsewhere many thousands as in Bohemia France and England and other parts who bâ—fore Luthers time embraced the doctrine of the Gospell PA. Master Brereley saith out of Luthers workes that upon a conference had with the Devill Luther gave over the Masse and changed his Religion PRO. Suppose this Conference were extant in all the Dutch copies of Luthers workes which yet some make doubt of yet might this conference bee onely imaginary even a strong spirituall 〈◊〉 and not â—ny personall or reall conference now from such a spiâ—ituall conflict dreame or appâ—â—ition you cannot draw any sound proofe But supposing the truth of this conference had not Christ a conâ—â—â—â—nce with Sathan and Saint Bernarâ— a combat with him is theiâ— religion ere a whit â—he worse to be liked Your Romish Saints were very familiar with the Devill Saint Oswald wrestled with him Saint Dunstane tooke him by the nose Christopher in the Legend is said to have served the Devill and Saint Xavier was usually vexed with him after Dinner Supper Recreation and saying of Masse insomuch as the Devill oft times put him into a cold sweat as Hâ—ssenmullerus reporteth of him from Turrian the Iesuite PA. The Devill brought arguments against saying of Masse and disputed against it therefore the Masse is good or else the Devill would not have found fault with it PRO. This followeth not for every thing the Devill mislikes is not therefore good neither is all he moves one unto therefore bad For instance sake he came in the habit of Saint Vrsula and moved one to enter into the Order of Nunnes will you say therefore veiling of Nunnes is bad PA. Luther used the selfe-same arguments against the Masse which Satan did now how could they bee good proofes that were brought in by Satan or why would Luther beleeve him PRO. Luther shewes onely how Satan tempted hâ—m to despaire for that he had beene a Masse-monger which Luther knew to be naught without the Devils prompting Besides all that the Devill speakes is not devillish the Devils that possessed the men confessed and sayd Thou art Christ the Sonne of the living God afterwards they entred into the Heard of Swine now the Heardmen they came into the Citty and told what was done and sayd now what though the Hâ—ard-men told how the Devils confessed this Article of the Christian Faith That Christ was the Sonne of the living God was not this a true confession though the Heard-men had fiâ—st heard it from the Devils and likewise reported it from them Luther heard such and such arguments against the Masse might not those arguments be true though Luther heaâ—d them from Satan Gods Ape It is true indeed that the Devill in telling truth
were held as you say not by the best members of the Church but by a domineering faction therein how came it that the prevailing faction suffered others to dissent from them in judgement Answer So long as men yeelded outward obedience to the Church-ceremonies without scandall in other things they were suffered to abound in their owne sense so that they submitted themsâ—lves to the obedience of the Church of Rome Besides the Church of Râ—me had not so strictly defined those Tenets in any Councel before as afterwards they did in the Councel of Tâ—ent PA. Our name Catholicke is ancient your Protestant name came not in till after Luther Besides it is a scandalous thing for your Church to derive authoritie from Wickliffâ— Husse Luther and Calvin PRO. Indeed the name Protestant began upon the protâ—sting of the Elector and Laâ—d grave against the Edict howsoever the Faith is ancient though the name bee not and yet if you stand upon names wee are called Christians and into that name were wee Baptized and that is anciâ—nter than your Roman catholicke Now you are called Catholickes but it is with an aliâs or addition Roman-Caâ—holickes as much as to say Particular Vniversall the part is the whole one Citty the woâ—ld and it is your selves that terme you Catholickes Now if one Papist call another so it is but as if one Mule should claw another The Hagarens boldly usurped the name of Sarazens although they were only the brood that sprang from the wombe of Hagar the hand-maid of Sara The Papists by this terme Catholicke worke upon simple people arguing from the one to the other as if all the priviledges of the Catholicke Church belonged to the Romane but we tell them as Optatus did the Donatists who pinned up the Church in a corner of Africke as the Romanists now conâ—ine her to their See that Their Church is Quasi Ecclesia in some sort a Church but not the Catholicke Church but an unsound member thereof We doe not derive our Church from any other than the Primitive Catholicke and Apoâ—tolickâ— Chuâ—ch The Lord is not farre from every â—â—e of us for we are also his off spring Christ Iesus is the top of our kiâ—ne and Religion the stocke Your Pedegre mâ—y be drawne in part from some of the ancient Hereâ—iâ—kes in â—espect of your Invocaâ—ion of Sainâ—s and Angelsâ— you are a kinne at least by the halfe bloud to the Angelici Who as Saint Austâ—ne saith were inclined to the worship of Angels and were from thence as Isidore noteth Called Angelici because they did worship Angelâ— By your Hyperdalâ—a and wâ—â—ship given to the blessed Virgin you shew your selves allied to the Collyridian Hereâ—ikes whom Epiphanius termes Idolaters now thâ—y were called Collyridians from the Collyrides or Cakes which at a certaine time of the yeare they used to offer unto the blessed Virgin sacrificing to her as to the Qâ—eene of heavâ—n By your doctrine of merit and workes of supererogâ—tion you resemble the Pelagians or Catharists Isidore notes it for a propertie of the Catharists or ancient Puritans To glory of their merits Thomas Waldâ—n saith It was a branch of the Pelagian heresie to â—old that according to the measure of meritorious workes God will reward a man so meriâ—ing Now the Rhemists a sprig of this branch mainâ—aine That they doe woâ—ke by their owne freewill and thereby deserve their salvation as also that Good workes are meritorious and the very cause of salvatâ—on so farre that God should be unjust if he rendred not hâ—aven for the same Now concerning the names of Wicklâ—ffe and Husse Luther and Calvin wherewith you pressâ—uâ— you shâ—ll not hereby drive us from holding that with them which thâ—y held of God for though wee rejoyce not in names drawnâ— from men but in the name of Christians into the which we are bapâ—ized yet wee know no great harme by them nor you we thinke set slaunders apaâ—t why we shâ—uld bee ashamed of them more than oâ—r Fathers were of Caecilian of whom the Dâ—natists câ—lled thâ—m Caeciâ—ianists but had they beene as evill almost as their enemies report them from which impâ—tations they are alrâ—aâ—y cleared anâ— theiâ— doctâ—ine â—ixâ— with lâ—â—ven as was the Phâ—risees yet Saint Paul hath tauâ—ht us to acknowledge our selves even Pâ—â—â—iseâ—s iâ— need be not onely Lutherans or Waldensâ—s in that the Pharisees taught a truth of Christian faith to wit the Resurrection of the dead In a word we esteeme of Calvin and Luther and the rest of the first Reformers as worthy men but wee make them not Lords over our faith PA. What thinke you of our fore-fathers that lived and died in the time of Poperie as you call it they were of our Religion PRO. I thinke charitably of them that they might bee saved for many of them were well meaning men and wanting meanes of better instruction they were carried with the sway of the times and as Saint Paul saith 1. Tim. 1.13 Did it ignorantly like those two hundred 2. Sam. 15.11 who in simplicity of heart followed Absalon knowing nothing of his treason and rebellion intended they knew not the depth and mysterie of poperie not their Merit of condignity nor their severall sorts of adoration their Latria Dulia and Hyperdulia Indeed the Scriptures and Church-service were lockt up in an unknowne tongue and yet even in the depth of Poperie as appeares by a Councell held at Clyffe and also by a Provinciall Constitution of Iohn Peckam Arch-bishop of Canterbury The Priests were enjoyned to teach the people the heads of Christian faith and Religion and namely to expound unto them the Creed the ten Commandements and the Sacraments and that vulgariter that is as the Glosse there saith in the vulgar and mother tongue to wit in English to the native English and in French to the French-borne so that even in those daâ—ker times there was a measure of explicite faith required at the hands of Lay-people and they were to be trained up in the knowledge of those Credendorum so farre as the Letter of the Creed might leade them and Faciendorum such as the Decalogue appointed them and Petendorum comprised in the Lords prayer and Recipiendorum tendred in the Sacraments It is Lyrae's conceit that when Saint Paul saith 1. Cor. 14.19 Hee had ratâ—er in the Church speake five words with his undeâ—standing then ten thousand in a strange tongue that those five words were those Agenda and Credenda which concerne our faith and manners as also those Vitanda Timenda and Speranda which the Pastors were to declare unto the people Besides there were divers parcels of the Creed concerning Christ and namely touching his Incarnation Passion his Resurrection and Ascension that were wont to be represented to their memories and meditations in the severall Festivities and Holy-dayes which the Church solemnized Besides wee hope the better for that they erred in points of
and differed from you so that they cannot belong to the same Church PRO. Concerning Wickliffâ— Husse and the rest if they have any of them borne record to the truth and resisted any innovation of corrupt Teachers in their times even to blood they are justly to be termed Martyrs yea albeit they saw not all corruptions but in some were themselves carried away with the streame of error Else if because they erred in some things they be no Martyrs or because we dissent from them in some things we are not of the same Church both you and we must quit all claime to Saint Cyprian Iustin Martyr and many more whom we count our ancients and predecessors and bereave them also of the honour of martyrdome which so long they have enjoyed Irenaus and Iustin Martyr held the error of the Millenaries Cyprian many others held Rebaptization necessary for such as were baptized by heretikes S Austin and the greatest part of the Church for sixe hundred yeares held a necessitie of the Eucharist to Infants and in other things differed one from another and from the Church in the aftertimes correcting their errors yet because they all entirely and stedfâ—stly held all the necessary fundamentall principles which these errors did not infringe neither held they these errors obstinatly but only for want of better information they were of the same Church and Religion whereof we are S. Austin saith There be some things in which the most Learned and best Defenders of the Catholike Rule the bond of faith preserved do sometimes not agree among themselves and one in some one thing saith righter than anoher Now if the different opinions of the Fathers in some points hindred not their union in substance of the faith and their being members all of the same Church why should the like or lesser differences now among the Protestants hinder their union in substance of the same faith and their being members all of the same Chuch both among themselves and with the Fathers yea but Wickliffe and Husse with others mentioned in our Catalogue they erred in point of faith it is true but yet their error was not joyned with pertinacy they errâ—d not incorrigibly buâ— for want of better information they erred in that doctrine of faith wherein the truth was not fully scanned declared and confirmed by a Plenary Councell as S. Austin speaketh had it beene we may well thinke the very same of all those holy men which Austin most charitably saith of Saint Cyprian Without doubt they would have yeelded to the truth being manifested unto them by the authority of the whole Church Object We are at vnity but your Protestants are at ods and namely your Lutherans and Calvinists in the point of the Sacrament the one holding Consubstantiation and the other opposing it Answer The Protestants especially we of the Church of England are at unity as appeares by the Harmony of our confessions as also by our joynt subscriptions to the Articles of Râ—ligion established And for the point mentioned the difference is nothing so great as you would have it thought for as the moâ—t learned and judicious Zanchius observeth and our Doctor Field out of him In all necessary points both the parties agree and dissent in one unnecessary which by right understanding one another might easily be compounded Both sides saith Zanchius doe agree that the elements of bread and wine are not abolished in their substance but onely changed in their use which is not onely to signifie but also to exhibit and communicate unto us the very body and blood of Christ with all the gracious working and fruits thereof Both parties agree that the very body and blood of Christ are truely present in the Sacrament and by the faithfull truely and really received Thus farre all parties agree that is in the whole necessary and sufficient substance of the doctrine of this Sacrament for the other matter wherein they differ de modo of the manner how Christ is present in the Sacrament seeing it is not expressed in the Scriptures in the judgement of Zanchius it might well be omitted and they themselves confesse when they have gone as farre as they can to determine it still it is ineffable and not possible to be fully understood It is enough for us saith the same Zanchius to beleeve the body and blood are there though how and in what manner wee cannot define So then in this maine controversie betweene them about Consubstantiation which as Zanchius saith did afterwards occasion that other of ubiquity in both these controversies the main truth on both sides is out of controversie that Christ is really truly exhibited to each faithfull Communicant and that in his whole person he is every where the doubt is onely in the manner how he is in the Symbols and how in heaven and earth Now for other ods amongst us they be but in Ceremonies or at worst in points of no absolute consequence whereas the differences amongst Papists concerne the life of Religion They differ concerning the Supreame authoritie of the Church whether it be in the Pope or in the Generall Councel The Councels of Constance and Basil determined that a Generall Councel was above the Pope the Councel of Florence decreed the Pope to be above a Generall Councel They differ concerning the manner of the conception of the Virgin Mary The Dominican Friers following the Thomists hold that she was conceived in Originall sinne the Franciscans hold the contrary The moderne Popes disâ—gree with the ancient concerning the dignitie of universall Bishop adoration of Images Transubstantiation Communion in both kinds and the Merit of good workes as is already showne in the fifth and seaventh Centurie of this treatise So cleere is it that some doctrines of the later Roman Church were opposed by the ancient Roman Bishops thâ—mselves to wit adoration of Images as also the dignity and title of universal Bishop by Gregorie the Great coÌ„munion in one kind â— as also the merit of good works by Leo the first TransubstantiatioÌ„ by Gelasius the first Besides the Iesuits and Dominicans differ at this day concerning the weighty point of Free-will and Grace The truth is the Popish Faith varieth not onely with their persons but according to time and place so that they can exchange their tenets upon occasion advance or cry downe their opinions at their pleasure as may best serve for their advantage For as Azorius the Iesuit saith It falls out often that that which was not the common opinion a few yeares since now is And that which is the common opinion of Divines in one Country is not so in another As in Spaine and Italy it is the common opinion that Latreia or divine worship is due to the Crosse which in France and Germaâ—y is not so but some inferior kind of worship due thereunto And Navarrus the Casuist sayes
at Aâ—twerpe Anno 1576. at Paris Anno 1586. at Coleine Ann. 1616. but no such place was there to be found the Divines of Lovaine had taken a course with them and suppressed these testimonies but by good hap I met with them in the Basil Edition Anno 1569. Object Those whom you have named in your Catalogue were originally Catholikes and not Protestants Wickliâ—fe and Husse were Catholike Priests and Luther was an Augustine Frier you cannot name such as were Protestants originally they came forth of our Church Answer Whence I pray you sprang Christs Apostles were they not taken out of the Iewish Church at that time much corrupted S. Paul speaking of himselfe and the service of his God saith Whom I doe serve from my progenitors meaning Abraham Isaac and Iacob the first Fathers of the faithfull for as for S. Pauls immediate predecessors it is likely that they relished of the leven of the Pharisees It can be no more prejudice to our Church that Luther Wickliffe aâ—d Husse were originally Papists than to S. Paul that he was originally a Pharisee or to S. Austine that he was orinally a Manichee or to our Ancestors at the first conversion of our land that they were originally heathen or to all true Converts that they were originally unregenerate For as Tertullian saith Fiunt non nascuntur Christiani We are not borne Christians but we become Christians Neither is it true that wee can name none of our Church that were not originally Papists For Farellus and the Waldensian Ministers for more than 400. yeares were not originally Papists though Waldo himselfe was Besides the Fathers for 600 yeares and the Monkes in Britaine at Augustines comming were not originally Papists In the Greeke Church from 700. to 700 afterwards many thousands held as wee doe in all fundamentals who never were originally Papists nor millions of others in the Easterne Churches and namely in the Greeke Church there have bene from 700. to 700. afterwards many thousands which held as we doe in all fundamentals and never were originally Papists Lastly the like argument might be urged against all that embraced Reformation in Iosias dayes that they originally were involved in the common errors and Idolatry of the Iewish Church Likewise that Zachary and Elizabeth and Simeon and Anna and the Apostles were originally deduced from that Church which held many errors concerning the temporall kingdome of the Messias and divorces for other causes than adultery c. Which errors Christ and his Apostles reproved In England and most parts of the world the first Christians were originally Paynims and Idolaters what prejudice is that to Christianity or advantage to Heathenisme Object Your Churches professors mentioned in your Catalogue wanted lawfull succession Answer There is a two-fold succession the one lineall and locall the other doctrinall this of doctrine is the life and soule of the other Irenaeus describeth those which have true succession from the Apostles To bee such as with the succession of the Episcopall office have received the câ—rtâ—ine grace of tâ—uth and this kind of succession hee calleâ—h the principâ—ll succession Gregory Nazianzen having said that Atâ—anasius succeeded Saint Marke in godlinesse addeth That this succession in godlinesse is properly to be accounted succâ—ssion for he that holdeth the same doctrine is also pâ—rtaker of the same throne but he that is against the doctrine must be reputed an adversary even while hâ—e sitteth in the throâ—e but the former hath the thing it selfe and the truth so that according to Irenaeus and Nazianzâ—n succession in doctrinâ— suâ—ficeth yea Nazianzen as we have heard makes it all one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 so that he which holds the same truth of doctrinâ— may bee said to sit in the same Chaire of succession Besides wee are able to shew succession also in place for â—ive hundred yeares in most parts of Christendome and since that in the Greeke Church untill this day and in the Latine Church from the time of Waldo in France Bohemia and other places And for the Church of England the lineall succession of her Bishops is showne particularly by Mr. Francis Mason de ministerio Anglicano Mr. Goodwin in his Catalogue of the Bishops of England and Mr. Isaacson in his Chronologicall Table of the succession of the Bishops of England PA. Name in the space of a thousand yeares next before Luther three knowne and confessed Protestant Bishops succeeding each to other and if you had such expresse their agreement with you in the maine points controverted betweene us PRO. This demand was eagerly pressed upon me by a Romish Priest but the Stone which he hurled at mee not comming forth of Davids sling recoiles upon himselfe like the stone that Achilles flung at a dead skull which â—ebounded backe and strucke out the slingers eyeâ— Redijt lapis ultor ab osse Actorisque suifrontem oculâ—squè petit For I would in like manner demand of him to name three knowne and confessed Popish Bishops succeeding each other who maintained the worship of Images before the second Councell of Nice or that beleeved Transubstantiation before the Roman Councell under Pope Nicholasâ— or that avowed the dry and halfe Communion before the Councell at Constance under Martin the fift or that held the effect of the Sacraments to depend upon the Priests intention before the Councell at Florence or defined the Pope to be above a Generall Councell before the Councell of Lateran under Leo the tenth or that determined the twelve new Articles of Pius the fourth his Creed to be all de Fide and necessary to salvation before the Councell of Trent Besides there is no necessitie of naming three Bishops succeeding each other and opposing Poperie It sufficeth to name such as opposed it tho they sate not successively in the same Chaire for all Romish errors and superstitions rushed not in at once into the Church but by degrees now such as held the fundamentals with us and opposed any one error or more when they were first espied to creepe into the Church they were Protestants though they went not then under that name Now according to this account of Protestants wee can produce many more than three Bishops succeeding each other who in their times made head against Romish usurpations and superstitions for instance sake S. Austine and with him two hundred and seventeene Bishops of Africa and their successors for a hundred yeares together if their owne Records be true opposed the Popes supremacie in point of Appeales To speake nothing of the innumerable Bishops in the Easterne Churches and the Habassines and Muscovites and elsewhere succeeding each the other for many hundred yeares differing in no fundamentall point from Protestants and keeping no quarter at all with the Pope or See of Rome when Austine the Monke was sent into England by Gregory the Great the most ancient British and Irish Bishops withstood the Popes authority and ordinances stifly adhering to the Churches
â—he private Masses and some also must be attributed to the very change of time it selfe as publicke prayers in an unknowne tongue in Italy France and Spaine for there a long time the Latine was commonly understood of all but when afterwards by the invasion of those barbarous nations the Goths and Vandals their speeches degenerated into those vulgar tongues that are now used there then the language not of the Service but of the people was altered so that upon the fall of the Empire learning began to decay and the publicke Service no longer to be understood by reason of the change of the vulgar tongues Lastly wee are able to show as appeares by the eighth Centurie of this treatise when and by whom corruption of doctrine hath beene brought in and how opposition hath beene made from time to time in case of the adversaries violent intrusion for instance sake for the space of sixe hundred yeares and more next after Christ the Catholicke doctrine of the Church of Rome was this that Images were not to be adored and this is witnessed by Gregorie the Great who allowed no use of Images but onely Historical for so he saith They are not set up to be worshipped but onely to instruct the people that be ignorant yea he speakes positively that The worshipping of Images is by all meanes to bee avoided Now this doctrine maintained by Gregorie the first was changed by Gregorie the second and third Adrian the first and second so that here we have taken them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the manner to wit with doctrine novel and differing from their Ancestors and therefore need no farther examination But that the Reader may trace them along we find that this Innovation was resisted by three hundred thirtie eight Bishops at Constantinople in the yeare 754 and though afterwards it got strength at Nice was defended by Rome and at last got to bee a part of the Roman Faith yet was the same disliked denied opposed and resisted by all the good men that lived in that and aftertimes as Charles the Great the councel of Franckford Lewis his sonne the Synod of Paris Alcuinus and the Church of England PA. Will you charge our Religion with novelty can that bee called new which is of so long continuance PRO. Divers points of your Religion are confessed novelties your owne men yeeld that for Above a thousand yeares after Christ the Popes judgement was not esteemed infallible nor his authority above that of a Generall Councell the contrary being decreed in the late Councels of Constance and Basil that Not any one ancient Writer reckons precisely seven Sacraments the first Author that mentioneth that number being Peter Lombard and the first Councell that of Florence that in former ages for thirteene hundred yeares The holy Cup was administred to the Laity that divine service was celebrated for many ages in a knowne and vulgar language understood by the people that Transubstantiation was neither named nor made an Article of faith before the Councell of Lateran which was above twelve hundred yeares after Christ besides many more confessions of this kind which might bee produced Now that a thing may be novell though of long duration may appeare by this our Saviour when he would declare Pharisaicall Traditions to be Novelties did not respect their long continuance in the corrupt estate of the Church but saith Math. 19.8 Ab initio non fuit sic that they were not from the beginning delivered by God or practised by the Church so that if the duration and antiquity of your opinions be but humane that is not Apostolicall neither from Apostolicall grounds they may according to Tertullian be esteemed new and novelties for a point is new in Religion that did not proceed from God and his blessed spirit either interminâ—s or by deduction from his word that is the Ancient of dayes whatsoever pretences of duration and continuance may be supposed It remaineth then that that is new in Religion which is not most ancient so that if you cannot derive your Religion further then from some of the Fathers the tradition whereupon it is builded is then but humane and so a new thing even Noveltie it selfe And therefore Tertullian telleth us That is most true which is most ancient that most ancient which was from the beginning that from the beginning which was from the Apostles as if there were no truth in faith that was not from the beginning If Christ was alwayes and before all truth is a thing equally ancient and from all eternitie saith the same Father and therefore whatsoever savorâ—th against the truth this saith he is Heresie thoâ—gh it be of long continuance for there is no prescription of time that will hold plea against the Ancient of dayes and his truth I know that Pamelius in his notes upon Tertullian would ward off these testimonies by saying that Tertullian spoke thus When hee began to fall into the fancie of Montanus but be it so yet hee delivered some truths after hee lapsed into Montanisme besides Bellarmine for proofe of Monasticall vowes and veiling of Nunnes alleadgeth divers places out of the same treatise of Tertullians de Virginibus velandis of veiling of virgins and then belike Tertullian was no Montanist when Bellarmine for his advantage alleadged him PA. Our Religion Mr. Brerely is that good seed which Christ the good husbandman first sowed in his field Math. 13.24 yours is like the Tares which the enemy afterwards came and sowed among the wheate PRO. A great part of your Religion specially that which is controverted betwixt you and us and namely your Trent additionals and Traditionals was not sowne by the good husbandmen Christ and his Apostles but by the envious man by the craft of the man of sinne and his complices the sinnes of Christian men so requiring for as it is already observed erroneous doctrine it may be antiqua ancient but it cannot be prima that one truth and faith Ephes. 4.5 Which was once delivered to the Saints as S. Inde speakes and therefore is Christ the Husbandman first presented in the Parable as Seminans sowing good seed in his field before the Enemy is produced Reseminans resowing the same Acres with unprofitable graine Besides Religion is one thing and Reformation another the one presupposeth the other our reformation is of a later date our Religion is the old Religion coevall with the Primitive and Apostolike howsoever you taxe us with noveltie But the Disciple is not above his Master the Iewes could say to our Saviour What new doctrine is this and the Grecians to S. Paul May we not know what this new doctrine whereof thou speakest is but wee say in our just defence it is not wee that affâ—ct noveltie but it is you that counterfeit the face of Antiquity as the Gibeonites dealt with Ioshua deceiving him