Peace and reconciliation wrought by Christ whereby we knowing that we are iustified by faith haue peace with god Rom. 5. But neither of these Peaces are in the church of Rome for there is dissention in doctrine and their doctrine dissenteth from the truth as for the peace of conscience is altogether vnknowen vnto Papistes euen as the iustification of Faith by which onely it is obteined 31 Domus Refugij THe house of Refuge or defence may also be applied to the Church out of which is no saluation And in whose bosome it becoÌ„meth euery man to rest which shall looke for the refuge and defence of god But God forbidde that any man should seeke for refuge or helpe at your church which must be ouerthrowen with such violence as a great mylstone that is cast into the Sea and shal be founde no more Apoc. 18. 32 Domus Veritatis AS our church is the piller and staie of trueth so is she also the house of Trueth which knoweth nothing but him that is the Trueth it selfe Iesus Christ and his most holy Scripture In which this trueth is signed and testified But your Synagoge is the house of lyes where beside mens doctrines and traditions which are nothing but lyes there be also leaden legendes of lyes Promptuaries of lyes Festiuals of lyes and other infinite bookes of lyes 33 Societas Sanctorum HOw shoulde not our Church be the societie and fellowship of Sainctes which is sanctified and purged by the bloode of Christ which hath receiued the spirite of sanctification by which we crie Abba Father which is guided and gouerned by the most sacred and holy worde of god And how can the Popish church be the fellowship of Sainctes when she refuseth the sanctification of Christ his one oblation and sacrifice as sufficient to make them perfect which scorneth at the spirite of sanctification which can abide any thing rather than to be directed onely by God his holy worde Finally which acknowledgeth no sainctes but such as the most vnholy Pope for money doth canonize and make sainctes Proue vnto me therefore that these excellent and propre callinges can agree to any disordered companie or Congregation or to any vnknowen society of men but onely to the true Church of Christ spred throughout the whole worlde by Christes his promise and by vertue of his spirit continued in truth and grace from falshood sence Christes time and I recant AS many of these excellent names as in the worde of God or the doctors agreeing with the worde of God are propre or perteyning to the true Church of Christ so many haue I proued to be propre and perteyning to our most holy and well ordered CongregatioÌ„ And moreouer that they can in no wise be rightly applied to that most abhominable Idolatrous and disordered Synagoge of Rome which is vtterly departed from the faith geuing heede to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills being so liuely painted forth and euen pointed forth by the scripture to be that Antichristian church whereof the holy Ghost prophesieth that no man except he will wilfully be blinde can be ignorant thereof so that if you be not starke blinde and geuen vp into a reprobate sence when you consider these thinges you will recant Let any man therefore aliue answer directly and plainly without colour or fraude of wordes and vnprofitable digressions to the foresayd or any of the foresayd demandes and I shall willingly leaue the knowne Church playne way of Saluation and wander in the woodes to seeke after them and their congregation IF you had not added this conclusion we might haue conceaued some hope that vpon further instruction in such matters as troubled your conscience you would haue ben contented to be reformed after God his worde and good counsell But now you declare that you are so obstinatly bent that what so euer be proued against you you will not receiue it as truth but yeld vnto it perforce As for me Although I know there are very many which with more learning and eloquence coulde haue aunswered your demandes yet being such as they are I submitte my selfe to the iudgement of all them that be learned and godly minded whether I haue not directly and plainely without colour or fraude of wordes without all digression aunswered the same so that I doubt not but as many as are tractable and stayed vpon these doubtes onely may be fully perswaded by these not very long and yet sufficient Answers THE ENDE 1 A DEFENSE AND DECLARATION OF THE CATHOLIKE Churches doctrine touching Purgatory and prayers for the soules departed By VVILLIAM ALLEN Maister of Arte and student in Diuinitie 1 AN OVERTHROW AND CONFVTATION OF THE POPISH Churches doctrine touching Purgatory and prayers for the deade By W. FVLKE Doctor in Diuinitie 2 Mortuo ne prohibeas gratiam Eccle. 7. Hinder not the departed of grace and fauour 2 Such liberalitie as by any meanes may extende vnto them in burying their bodies honoring there memorie helping there posteritie TO THE READER 3 A Friend of mine very studious of the truth and zelous of Gods house one that learned to beleue first and then sought to vnderstand afterward which I take to be the naturall order of a christian schoole where faith must in most matters direct reason and leade the way to vnderstanding asked of me as of one whome he hartely loued and knew to be studious in such matters by my trade of life vpon what groundes the Churches doctrine and the Christian peoples faith of Purgatory and prayers for the departed stoode I aunswered him then presently as I could and shortly after as his further request was in writing somewhat more at large The which my doing though it was both rude and short yet he so measured it either by loue as it commonly happeth or else by a singular facilitie whereby he misliketh nothing that is meant well that he made it common to many moe then I would my selfe For though I was well contented that the simple people or any other should take profite or pleasure by my paine yet â—onsidering the matter to be full of difficultie and to reaâ—h to Gods iudgements in the world to come I called to my minde the saying of Nebridius who as S. Augustine reporteth of him with whom he was very familiar being much studious and inquisitiue of the secret poâ—ntes of our faith would be excedingly offended to heare a man aske of a matter of importaunce a briefe declaration his saying was that he loued not a short answere to a long question VVhereby I was me thought in a maner admonished that my treatise though it satisfied my friend and displeased not other yet could not written both hastely and briefly serue so long and large a matter I did feare with all to enter in this my lacke of yeares iudgement and knowledge into the search of such secretes as I knâ—w by that light vowe that I made of the matter before the orderly proceeding in
full of posing M. Protestant as though you were Iohannes ad oppositum I wil pose you M. Allen an other while or any M. Papiste of you all that hath a forheade to mainteine this trumperie for Clemenâ— the auncient Bishoppes writing Alas Syr what if this be proued counterfect that you saye is so olde and you with out peraduenture lye that of late haue founde it so auncient what grounde haue your schollers then Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already how will you proue it then to be a tradition of the Apostles your aunswere wil be still Clenens sayth it But alacke Sir whether is it more licke that Eusebius and Hieronym that lyued neerer to the time of S. Clement by twelue hundreth yeares then you shoulde know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you But Eusebius and Hieronym neuer hearde of such writinges as were neuer seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundreth yeares after Clemens his death Where shoulde you haue them then but of some counterfecting knawe that coulde not otherwise maintaine his heresie to be old but by falsyfying and counterfecting a newe that which neuer was in the olde writers heades But to shew that your shamelesse Clement daunceth bare and breechelesse with out all honesty I will yet pose you further and bidde you call your wittes together to aunswere me Whether had you rather graunt that so holy a Pope as Clemens was did erre or â—hat he was a false knaw that woulde father an error vppon so holy a mans name and credit your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be obserued for the departed according to the olde forme because the people did so obserue the bewayling of Moses But if the scripture affirme that the people bewayled Moses but 30. dayes Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of Gods worde and his foolish decree builded vppon his false grounde How saye you now M. Allen is this Apostolike or apostotaticall is this plaine dealing or Popish counterfecting was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture or was he an ignorant hypocrite that fayned this vnder the name of Clemens Trueth seaketh not to be mainteined which lyes fayth looketh not to be defended by falsehoode The Church of Christ craueth no counterfected authoritie to establish her doctrine Therefore it is neither trueth nor fayth nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ that you mainteine defend and establish by lying falsyfying and counterfecting but error infidelity and heresie he therefore that will forsake the certainetie of Gods worde to builde vpon the traditions of men for leuing the only pathe of trueth hath a iust rewarde to fall into the pitte of error 5 VVell I will close vp this parte of our talke for Tobies almes borde in the obittes of Christian men with S. Augustines graue iudgement who as he is plaine for the benefite of oblations in the memorialls of mens departures in all placies so here in a maner he ordereth the action thereof for abusies that might thereon arise in his epistle to Aurelius The offeringes sayth he obserued for the soules departed whereof there is no question but profet ariseth to them let them not be ouer sumptuous vpon the mindes of the deceased nor soulde away but geuen with out grudge or disdaine to such as be present and woulde be partaker thereof but if mony be offered it may be distributed out of hande to the poore and then shall not those dayes of their freindes memorialles be to their great griefe forsaken or destitute of companie And the ordre with honeste comelinesse shall be kept continually in the Church So S. Clement him selfe teacheth all them that be called to such dayes of prayers for the departed and to be partakers of those oblations or charitable relieues which were by some honest sober refreshing euen in the Church in those dayes obserued whether they be of the laity or of the priestes he geueth them this lesson Qui ad memorias eorum vocamini cum modestia cum dei timore comedite veluti valentes legatione fungi pro mortuis cum sitis presbyteri diaconi Christi sobrij esse debetis priuatim cum alijs vt possitis intemperantes coercere All you that are called to the funeralles of the departed refresh your selues in measure and feare of God that you may be worthy to be as it were in commission of intreatie for the deade and being priestes or deacons of Christ you are bounde to be sobre euen at home but abrode for others example and discipline 5 You had bene as good to haue left out the comparing of Augustines oblations with Tobies almes borde for that custome which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies almes borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profit some what Sed quoniaÌ„ istae in caemiterijs ebrietates luxuriosa conuiuia non solùm honores martyrum in carnali imperita plebe credi solent sed etiam solatia mortuorum mihi videtur facilius illic dissuadeâ—i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem si de scripturis prohibeatur oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas verè aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae c. But because this dronkennesses and riotous festes vsed in the Church yeardes of the carnall and vnskillfull people are wonte to be beleued not onely to be the honour of the martyrs but also the comforte of the deade my thinke it were more easy that this filthynesse and beastlynesse may be there diswaded if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures and that the oblations for the spirites of the deade which truely we must beleue doth helpe somewhat vpon the memories them selues be not sumptuous c. But if Augustine had knowen the horrible abuses which grew afterwarde by permission of these oblations he woulde as well haue prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs as for comforte of deade mens soules As for Clement that teacheth the preistes and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating where they were bidden to buriall feastes euen here also he sheweth him selfe in his owne colours As though in the dayes of Clemens when the Church was in great persecution they had nothing els to doe but to keepe sumptuous feastes at their burialls where at the priestes and deacons were in daunger of glouttony dronkennesse as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride seldome temperate or sober and lest of all at burialls and monthes mindes c. That the benefite of prayer and almes appertaineth not to such as dye in mortall sinne though in the doubtefull case of mans beeing the Church vseth to praye for all departed in Christes fayth CAP. VII 1 THus farre we now are broght I trust with proofe and euidence enough with
obscuro non ad propheticas voces non ad apostolicas literas nec ad euangelicas auctoritates sed ad semetipsos recurrunt Sed ideò erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt They fall into this folly which when they be hindered by any obscuritie to knowe the truth haue not recourse to the words of the Prophets nor to the writings of the Apostles nor to the authoritie of the Gospell but to them selues But therefore are they maisters of error because they haue not ben schollers of truth In these words Leo as great as you would haue him maketh the Scriptures not customes or traditioÌ„s the rule of truth But I will come to your demonstration which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine yet vnder correction of your demonstratiue Logike I may be bold to say it is not the proper way nor the way by which all doctrine may be tryed and so you breake 2. of those principal rules that Aristotle giueth for demonstration 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by coÌ„ferring it with the word of God Againe the first author of euery heresie can not be named There was one heresie of them that were called Acephali because there was no head knowne of them It is harde to name the first authour of the Manichees whom the heretikes them selues call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes the Ophâ—tes the Caineanes the Sethoites the Adamianes the Melchezedâ—chianes the Apostolike the Hemerobaptistes and an hundred more heresies shall they be thought to haue their heresie from tradition of the Apostles if the first author of them can not be named yet I weene it will be hard for him to proue out of any authenticall writer that any before Tertullian either named or allowed prayer for the deade who was almost 2. hundreth yeares after the incarnation of Christ. 2 If they answere me that this vsage is crept into the church sith the Apostles time though the first author can not be knowen I will also prouide that there no shift shall serue them Therefore I aske them whether that man which first preached it was resisted by the rest of Gods Church which before his preaching beleued the contrarie or no That is it say this doctrine of praying for the deade when it first came into the church did any of the true pastors free from the same error barke like a good shepheard against the beginner of that which they count so great a corruption of trueth Or all the Church was corrupted with it on one daye say what you thinke likest in this case aunswere with any probability or reason if you can saye plainely was our doctrine euer preaâ—hed against or neuer if it neuer were preached against then it neuer beganne as any noueltie or newe doctrine For it coulde not be that the Church being free from that doctrine shoulde straight without contradiction allowe that which they liked not before Howe can any man arise in the common welth and bring the vtter decay of all the olde ordres which he findeth and erect vp a new deuise of his owne and neuer man speake a word against him but all in one moment allow and like the same and that without all recorde by memory or monument of any chaunge But this thinge is most farre from the Churches and Gods pastors diligeÌ„ce that neuer receiued false doctrine without open contradiction and plaine noting the party that first began it as we shal plucke our gentlemen by the slieue a none All those that haue any skill in the antiquitie will beare me recorde that the pastors did neuer holde their peace when any wolfe did but once open his mouth against the sheepe They can tell that she did neuer beare the preaching or practise of any false and erroneous doctrine for one day together then it must needes consequently followe that the doctrine of purgatory and oblation for the departed with still consent of all nations receiued in the Catholike Church had no beginning after the first institution of our faith and worship of God but hath ioyned from the first grounde of our Christian institution in Christes faith with that sacrifice and due honour of God which the Apostles by the suggestion of the holy Ghost planted in all nations with the same faith Thus I make my argument euery falsehood was preached against and withstanded when it is first entered but this doctrine of purgatory and praying for the deade being alwayes vsed was neuer controwled nor gainsaide in Gods Church therfore it is no falsehood nor euer had any later institution then the Apostles owne prescription 2 Supposing that this errour crept into the Church though the first author thereof can not be knowne he demaundeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be receiued I aunswere if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the vttermost it could not so easily haue preuayled And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that tyme opposed them selues against it although the history of the Church in that time whâ—n it began to be spreade is to briefe vnperfect that we should be able to name who they were that preached against it Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time it were hard to require and vnpossible to shew who preached against euery one of them at their first entrance yet they be damnable heresies In S. Augustines dayes of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth vnto vs who preached or writte against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome al the church as he confessed did hold that infants must receiue the holy communion or else they should be damned Who preached against this error except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretikes Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day If euery heresie had bene beaten down as fast as it sprang Antichrist should neuer haue set vp his throne in the temple of god If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error that they which refused to beleue the truth should be iustly condemned to beleue lyes the man of sinne and sonne of perdition had neuer aduauÌ„ced him selfe aboue all that is called God. 2. Thessal 2. And therefore M. Allen plucke not vs by the sleue but your self by the nose you are the heretikes that refuse to beleue the truth you are they that turne away your eares from truth to fables you are they that attend to spirites of error and doctrines of deuills forbidding to marry and abstayning from meates which God hath created to be receiued with thankes giuing There is the brande marke of Romish religion that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea shal not be able to wash out Must we finde out the authors of your heresies Nay iustifie
doth recant The third article conteyneth 5. demandes 1 Shew me why our common knowen Church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteyned in the same THere may be diuers good reasons shewed why your Church commonly knowen to be the church of Antichrist did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament as the true religion conteined therein First because she coulde not the copies thereof being so many by the prouidence of God dispersed throughout the worlde Secondly because she thought it not so needefull hauing other meanes to worke her deuilish deuise For although she coulde not corrupt the scripture yet it made the lesse matter because she founde meanes to diminish and controll the authority therof by aduancing decrees of men Popes and Councells to be equall or of greater authoritie than the scripture Thirdly because she woulde be lesse in feare to be reproued by the scripture she prouided that the knowledge thereof shoulde be hidden from the vnlearned people by a strange tongue and from the learned by the tedious mazes of questions deuised by her Canonistes and Sententiaries Fourthly because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture to her owne iudgement and therefore woulde not be controlled by the iudgement thereof but woulde alwayes expound it as it liked her best As appeareth by Ockam and Duns who though they confesse that transubstantiation seemeth to them contrary to the scripture and reason yet they beleued it because of the authoritie of the church and for none other cause These are the reasons why the Romish church did not as well corrupt the text of the Testamēt as the true Religion And yet how corrupt that Latine translation is which they woulde needes thrust vpō vs is sufficiently knowen to all learned men euen in such texts as are the most coulerable places for the defence of Popish doctrine I will geue one example for all They alleage the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat videat ne cadat He that standeth let him take heede he fall not against the certainetie of faith whereas the Greeke hath not he that standeth but he that thinketh he standeth let him take heede he fall not Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her selfe from corrupting of the text of the Testament whether it was of fraude or of ignorance or of negligence the Lorde knoweth 2 Shew me why she kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe BEcause it was against her owne estimation and profit which are the chiefe endes for which popish Prelates mainteyne popish religion Take away the Popes prerogatiue which is contrary to the sense of God his word downe goe Cardinalls Legates Prothonotaries downe goeth all the Court of Rome take away workes of supererogation which are contrary to the Scripture downe goe Abbeys Priories and Chantries Take away the sacrifice of the Masse Purgatory which are contrary to the word of God downe goeth the estimation and gaynes of all the popish clergie And this is the cause why the popish church kept not so safely and faithfully the true sense of God his word as she preserued the word it selfe although she preserued not the word it self in such safetie as becommed the Church of Christ. 3 Shew me why we should beleue the Papistes as you terme them for the word it self and rather you Protestants thā them for the meaning of the word WE doe not chalenge credit to our selues in any poynt so presumptuously as the Papistes that men must beleue it because we affirme it But because we proue it to be true by the worde of god And therefore for the meaning of the word you should beleue vs rather than them because our groundes proues are better then theirs or else we require not to be beleued better than they 4 Shew me why you beleued our Church telling you this to be God his booke will not credit her auouching this to be the true and vndoubted sense of the same booke IF we had no better ground to perswade vs of the authoritie of God his booke than the testimony of your Church you may be sure we would not beleue it But because we haue most stedfast assurance of God his spirite for the authority of that booke with the testimony of the true Church in all ages If you say it is God his booke we beleue you not because you say so but because we know it to be true But if you bring out a false sense we beleue you not because we know it to be false are able to proue by the word of God that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost To be plaine with you we geue as much credit to your Church as to the deuill When the deuill sayth it is written He shall giue his angells charge ouer thee and with their handes they shall hold thee vp that thou dash not thy foote against a stone We beleue that this is the worde of god But when he auoucheth this to be the meaning of it that we may cast downe our selues from a Church steeple without daunger we doe not beleue him because we know this sense is contrary to an other Scripture which sayth Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these wordes are the Scripture of God This is my body We beleue it because we knowe it to be true But when you say this is the meaning of these wordes This bread is turned into my naturall bodye we beleue you not because it is contrary to all places of Scripture which proue the trueth of Christ his humanitie or naturall body Thus I shewe you why we beleue you if you say the Scripture is God his word namely because we know it to be true why we beleue you not saying this is the meaning of it that is because we knowe by the word of God that it is false 5 Last of all Shew me why you beleued the olde known church affirming this to be the word of God and will not beleue her affirming Luther to be an heretike shew me good reason or Scripture for these thinges and I recant IF you meane by the olde Church the primitiue Church whose testimony of the word of God we allow beleue I deny that the primitiue Church did affirme Luther to be an heretike or the doctrine that he taught which we hold to be heresie but I am able to proue that the primitiue Church from which you haue receiued the Scripture affirmeth your doctrine to be heresie your Church the Church of Antichrist But if by the old knowne Church you meane the Church of old knowne to be the Church of Antichrist which is the popish church we beleue the deuill if he speake the trueth and we beleue not an Angell comming from heauen if he bring any other Gospel than S. Paule deliuered to the Galathians Therefore when your
After the sinnes of man be pardoned God oftentimes punisheth the offender the church punisheth him and man punisheth him selfe ergo there is some payne due after sinne be remitted Secondly this payne can not alwayes be discharged in this world eyther for lacke of space after the remission as it happeth in repentaunce at the houre of death or else when the party liueth in perpetuall welth without care or cogitation of any satisfaction therefore it must be aunswered in an other place Thirdly the common infirmities and the dayly trespasses which abase and defile the workes euen of the vertuous of their proper condition doe deserue payne for a tyme as the mortall offence deserueth perpetuall Therefore as the mortall sinne being not here pardoned must of iustice haue the reward of euerlasting punishment so it must needes followe that the veniall fault not here forgeuen should haue the reward which of nature it requireth that is to say temporall payne And therefore not onely the wicked but the very iust also must trauell to haue their daily infirmities and frailty of their corrupt natures forgiuen crying without ceasing forgeue vs our debts Quia non iustificabitur in conspectu tuo omnis viuens For no man aliue shal be able to stand before the face of God in his owne iustice or righteousnes and if these light sinnes should neuer be imputed then it were needelesse to cry for mercy or confesse debt as euery man doth be he neuer so passing holy To be briefe this debt of paine for sinne by any way remayning at the departure hence must of iustice be aunswered VVhich can not be without punishmēt in the next life then there must be a place of iudgement for temporall and transitory paynes in the other world The whole discourse made before hath geuen force enough to euery part of the argument the Scriptures doe proue it the practise of the Church confirmeth it all the doctors by our aduersaries graunt agree vpon it If they haue any thing to say here I make them fayre play the ground is open the reasons laide naked before their face remoue them as they can Lette them deale simply if they meane truely and not flourish as they vse vppon a false ground that in flowe of wordes they may couer errour or in rase of their smoth talke ouerrunne truth And that euery man may perceiue that we haue not raised this doctrine vpon reason only or curiositie although the graue authoritie of Gods Church might here in satisfie sober wittes we will now by Gods helpe go nearer the matter and directly make proofe of Purgatory by holy Scriptures reciting such places of the olde and new Testament as shall proue our cause euen in that sense which the learnedst and godlyest fathers of all ages by conference of places or other likelyhood shall fynde and determine to be most true Alleaging none els but such as they haue in the flour of Christian faith noted and peculiarely construed for that purpose which now is in question That the aduersaries of that doctrine may rather striue with the said saincts and doctours then with me that will as they shall well perceiue do nothing but truely reporte their wordes or meaninge Or rather that such as haue erred in that case by giuing ouer light credit to the troblesome teachers of these vnhappy dayes maye when they shall vnderstand the true meaning of the Scriptures the constant doctrine of the Catholike Church the wordes of all auncient writers the determination of so many holy Councels the olde vsage of all nations by humble prayers obteine of God the light of vnderstanding the trueth and the gifte of obedience to his will and worde Or if there be any so sattled in this vnlickely sect that he purposeth not to beleue the graue writers of olde times nor receiue their expositions vpon such places as we shall recite for that preiudice which he hath of this owne witte and vnderstanding yet let him not maruell at my simplicity that had rather geue credit to others then my selfe Or that in this hote time of contention and partaking in religion I do repose my selfe vnder the shadow of so many worthy writers as anone shall giue euidence in my cause CAP. V. 1 TRiumphing before the victorie and that is more before the encontry of hāde strokes for we come to ioyning but now you will now win your spurs or els it shal be a blacke daye with all Protestantes I will be as shorte in mine aunswere as you are in your arguments And that I may put on an armour of proofe to beare of your terrible haileshot your first argumēt hath neither good forme nor matter no more hath your second no more hath your third If you or any for you will prepare your selfe to geue a bitter charge either I or some other shal be redy to shape you an other aunswere But because here is nothing in this briefe ioyning but which hath bene largly discharged before in aunswere to your longe excursions it were nedelesse to make such vaine repetition as you doe especially in your last shorte argument in which space all the substaunce of your large booke might easily haue bene placed only to fil vp a competent length of the fift chapter and with such a tedious inlarging of a superfluous matter as a yong practiser of Rhetoricke would be ashamed to vse in a fayned declamation much worse becomming an auncient master of arte professing to trusse vp his arguments by Logicke to make a perfect perswasion As for the promisse of further proofe both out of the Scriptures and out of the doctors that followeth after this gallant ioyning and lusty challenge shall haue no preiudice of my disabling of the meane to perform it vntill it appeare by playne conference of his arguments and myne aunswers that his words are but winde and his promisse but pratling That Purgatory paines doth not onely serue Gods iustice for the punishement of sinne but also cleanse and qualifie the soule of man defiled for the more seemely entraunce into the holy places vvith conferēce of certaine places of Scripture for that purpose CAP. VI. 1 IF we well cōsider the wonderfull base condition and state of mans nature corrupted by our first fathers disobedience and more and more abased by continuall misery that sinne hath brought into our mortall life we shall finde the worke of Gods wisedome in the excellent repaire of this his creature to be full of mercy and full of maruell But proceding somewhat further and weying not onely his restoring but also the passing great anauncement to the vnspeakable glory of the elect there shall reason and all our cogitations vtterly faint and faile vs. The kingdome prepared is honored with the maiestie of the glorious Trinitie with the humanitie of Christ our Sauiour with the blessed Mary the vessell of his Incarnation with the bewtifull creatures and wholy vndefiled of all the ordres of Angels There can nothing doubtlesse
breaketh her faith of Baptisme shal be damned for mariage is not worth a rush For S. Paule sayth not she shal be damned for mariage but because she hath reiected the first faith that is such wanton young houswifes procede so farre that at length they forsake widowhood christianity and all But if M. Allen were posed where he findeth this worde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Scripture vsed for a vowe or promise made to God perhaps he would aunswere he is no Graecian then let him pose D. Hardinge or some other with the same question and with all let them shew how the first faith can be expounded for the last vowe that a body hath made if he haue made more then one For the Papists holde that these women made one vowe in baptisme an other of there widowhood What so euer M. Iewell hath affirmed against the Papistes he hath so substantially and learnedly defended that he neede not to haue any other man to aunswere for him Therefore if it were not to choke M. Allen in his owne coller I woulde trauaile no farther in this question The Church you say can not erre and that company is the Church which hath the Pope for their head if therefore it can be proued that the Pope and all they that take his part haue erred it is sufficiently shewed that the Church may erre S. Augustine was in this error as you will not deny that the Sacrament of the body and bloud of Christ was to be ministred vnto infants but of the same opinion he affirmeth that Innocentius Bishop of Rome and all the Church in his tyme was therefore the Pope and all the Church did erre reade Augustine contra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. where he sayth of Innocentius Qui denique paruulos definiuit nisi manducauerint carnem filij hominis vitam prorsus habere non posse which hath defined that infantes except they eate the flesh of the sonne of man can haue no life at all in them And by eating the flesh of the sonne of mā he meaneth eating the Sacramēt of his flesh and bloud as it is euident to them that wil bestow the reading of Augustines discourse in that place An aunsvvere to certayne obiections of the aduersaries moued vpon the diuersitie of meanings vvhich they see geuen in the fathers vvritings of the Scriptures before alleaged for purgatory and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiencie of Christes passion CAP. XI 1 BVt nowe the other side seeketh for some shiftes and draweth backe in this extremity thus That the places of the olde and new Testament now rather alleaged for my purpose and the proofe of purgatory though they be thus expounded of the doctours yet they may haue some other meaninge and sometimes be construed otherwise by the fathers them selues To which I aunswere and freely confesse that they so may haue in deede but the aduersary must take this with all that the pillars of Christes Church woulde neuer haue geuen this sense amongest other or rather before all other meaninges that probability or conferēce of scriptures did driue them vnto had it conteined a plaine faulsehood as the heretike supposeth it doth Yea had not the doctrine of Purgatory bene a knowne trueth in all ages it should neuer by the graue iudgemēt of so many wise men haue atteyned any colour of scripture For though many meaninges be founde of most harde places in all the Bible yet there is no sense geuen by any approued doctour that in it selfe is false And thinke you diuerse textes of the holy Scripture coulde haue caryed a false perswasion of Purgatory downe from the Apostles dayes to our time for true doctrine Marke well and you shall perceiue that the Church of Christ hath euer geuen roome to the diuersitie of mens wittes the diuision of graces and sondry giftes in exposition of most places of the whole testament with this prouiso alwayes that no man of singularity should father any falsehood or vntrueth vpon any texte but otherwise that euery man might abounde in his meaning Mary falsehood she neuer suffered one moment to take holde or bearing of any scripture vnreprehended Ecclesia multa tolerat sayth S. Augustine tamen quae sunt contra fidem vel bonam vitam non probat nectacet nec facit the Church beareth many thinges yet such thinges as be hourtfull to faith or good life she neuer approueth nor doth them her selfe nor holdeth her peace when she seeth them done by others Thereof we haue a goodly example in our owne matter So long as any conuenient meaning might be found out by the holy writers of that place alleaged out of S. Paule for such as shoulde be saued through fire she liked and allowed the same Some proued that the elect must be saued by long sufferance some said the tribulation of this life and world must trie mens faith workes some saide the greefe of minde in loosing that which they ouer much loued was the burning fire of mans affections some woulde haue the greuous vexation of departure out of this life to be a purgatory paines some construed the texte of the fire of conflagration that shall purge the workes of many in the latter day finally they all agreed that the temporall torment of the worlde to come is litterally noted and especially meant by the fire which the Apostle speaketh of All these so litle do disagree amongest them selues that not onely by diuerse men but of one man they might well all be geuen And being all in them selfe very true the holy Church so liketh and alloweth them eche one that yet by the common iudgement of all learned men that meaning for Purgatory paines she approueth as the most agreeable sense to the texte and whole circumstance of the letter But as soone as Origen went about to proue by the same scripture that all wicked men shoulde at length be saued after due purgation by fire then this pillar of trueth seeing an open falsehood gathered by the scripture of Gods worde coulde susteine no longer She set vp against this errour her pastors the graue fathers of our faith who ceased not as occasion serued to geue men warning of the deceite intended not onely still mainteining the doctrine of Purgatory but also expressely condemning all the reprehenders thereof as hereafter it shall be better declared and so misliking no sense that in it selfe was true the meaning of Purgatory yet hath bene of all the learned counted so certaine that in geuing any other likely exposition that was euer added with all as most consonant to the will and wordes of the writers So doth Theodoretus so doth S. Augustine and so in a maner did they all And as the saide holy doctour saith with whose wordes I am much delited by cause he of all other maketh trueth stand most plainely vpon it selfe One texte of scripture may well haue so many vnderstandings as may
the dead or any point of purgatory 6 I will declare what they practised for their dearest frends priuately and what the Churches of most notable Nations vsed for all deceased in Christes faith in their publike seruice openly I shall proue vnto you that the practise of suffrages and Sacrifice for the deade isshued downe to vs from the Apostles dayes 6 You shall not proue that either in publicke or priuate prayers the deade were commended otherwise then by waye of thankes geuing for their departure or that any suffrages or sacrifice was offered for them by the Apostles or their lawefull successors or many yeares after the Apostles times 7 I shall pointe you to the first father of the contrary doctrine and his principall abettours in such troublesome times at such marchants were to be founde Ye shall see them knowen amongest all the holy of their time by the name of heretikes 7 You shall shew no heretike that denied your doctrine but I will shew you other heretikes before him that allowed it 8 You shall see their doctrine improued and them selues condemned by the graue iudgement of Councells both Generall prouinciall for heretikes If any of them all can say any thing to the contrary of that which we vpon so good groundes mainteine he shall be aunswered with no worse then the very wordes of the holy auncient writers Finally if any other thinges be necessary beside for the declaration of this matter to the simple or for proofe against our aduersaries they shall not be omitted as occasioÌ„ by course and fall of the matter may be geuen All which pointes being auouched and not proued shall condemne me of arrogancy But both auouched and fully proued they shall deserue any reasonable mans consent and beare testimony of the aduersaries impudency here and witnesse of their contempte of Gods approued trueth in the worlde to come 8 How vayne your bragge is of generall counsels it appeareth by this that with in fouretene hundreth yeares after Christ you can finde none to serue your turne vntill you come to the councells Florens and Trent whereof the one was held in our grandfathers dayes the other within these 20. yeares your prouinciall councells shal be aunswered by as good prouinciall councells as they are And that which I haue to say in confutation of your heresie shall be no worse then the very word of God it selfe which is better then the consent of all the world against it And although the custome of praying for the dead be an auncient errour so that fewe of the latter writers there are but they shewe them selues to be infected therewith yet hath it not such an vniuersall consent of all writers but that I shall be able by Gods grace to shew that the most auncient and nearest to the Apostles tyme receiued it not and that they which of later time admitted it had neither any ground out of the Scriptures to warrant their doing nor any certainty of faith to assure their conscience which when it is found in the ende as it is now sayd in the beginning your arrogant boasting and impudent lying togither with the falshoode of your opinions shall be manifest to all men That there be certaine sinnes vvhich may be forgeuen in the next life and that the deserued punishement for the same may be eased or vtterly released before the extreme sentence be to the vtmost executed CAP. I. 1 ANd first that sinnes may be pardoned in the next worlde that were not in this life forgeuen our Sauiours owne wordes do teach vs written in the Gospell of S. Matthew thus Ideò dico vobis omne peccatum blasphemia remittetur hominibus spiritus autem blasphemia non remittetur Et quicuÌ„que dixerit verbum contra filium hominis remittetur ei qui autem dixerit contra spiritum sanctum non remittetur ei neque in hoc saeculo neque in fuâ—uro I tell you that all maner of sinne and blasphemy shall be forgeuen vnto men but the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be forgeueÌ„ And who so euer shall speake against the sonne of man it shall be forgeuen him But if he speake against the holy Ghost it shall neither be pardoned in this worlde nor in the worlde to come The same thing in sense hath Marke and Luke affirming that such offense shall neuer be forgeuen The which worde Neuer S. Marke expresseth thus in aeternuÌ„ non habet remissionem he shall not haue pardoÌ„ as you would say in all eternity by which he may plainely seeme to reache further then the limites and borders of this worlde for the remission of sinne And this speach hath as much pith and proper force in it as S. Matthewes who expressely distinctly and belike as Christ spake it vttereth that sense of the eternity which passeth the measure of worldely time by these words Neither in this world nor yet in the world to come And for that cause S. Marke sayth Reus erit aeterni delicti he shall be gilty of an eternall faulte signifying that in some case a man might perhaps not speede of a pardon in this life yet may obteine it in the next But for that horrible blasphemy he in a maner dischargeth the offender of all hope of remission either in this life or in the next that is to come VVhich forme of wordes can neither be founde in scripture nor in mans common talke to haue any place in such thinges as extend no further but to the transitory time of our life for in those matters it had bene vsually and truely spoken it shall neuer happen in this world And therfore instructing vs that sinnes or the paine due vnto sinnes may either be released in this worlde or in the worlde to come he followeth that phrase and forme of wordes in which man might well conceiue the reache of remission and pardoning of sinnes farre to passe the compasse of our time and life CAP. I. 1 YOu were as good to kindle a fire out of yâ—e and snow as to goe about to frame your fiery forge of purgatory out of this place The meaning of our Sauiour Christ is so playne his wordes so expresse that no reasonable man can gather any errour out of them For vndoubtedly the errour of purgatory was first inuented before this place was drawne vnto it So is there no heresie so absurd which Satan putteth into the head of wicked men but it may finde some sound of wordes in so many bookes of the holy Scriptures that by peruerse wit may be wrested vnto it But the doctrine of Gods truth and all articles of our beliefe are plainly taught in the Scripture either by manifest words or by necessary conclusion and argument which by no subtilty of SataÌ„ or his instrumeÌ„ts may be auoided or deluded And this is the difference betwene heresie and truth when they both apeale to the authorities of the Scripture Truth as she hath her foundation in the Scriptures and
aultar And therefore seeing Victor contrary to the forme giuen by the Priestes in councell was so bold to make Geminus Faustinus an elder his executor there is no cause that oblation should be made among you for his falling a sleepe or that any prayer in his name should be frequented in the Church c. By these wordes it appeareth first that Cyprian in these termes sacrifice Priest aultar alludeth to the sacrifices of thankesgiuing in the lawe because he vseth also that name of Leuites by which he calleth Gods ministers For as for the sacrifice propitiatory was offered in the law only by the high Priest once in the yeare So that he meaneth no other oblation or sacrifice for the dead but the sacrifice of thankesgiuing which was for their godly departure And therefore he calleth it not a sacrifice for their sinnes but for their falling a sleepe And by prayer he meaneth nor prayer for deliuery of the deade out of purgatory but as Origen sayth for the faithfull liuing to haue the like godly departure as he had that was fallen a sleepe And therfore he sayth not that such a one is not worthy to be praied for but he is not worthy to be named in the prayer which was made for them that remayned to ende their dayes happily as such a one or such a one whose names were recited in those memories had already fulfilled their course For otherwise what so euer M. Allen iangleth of the seueritie of the churches discipline if they had thought the soules of the departed to be in so great torments and that prayer and sacrifices had bene such a necessary helpe for them it had bene â—o much crueltie for one offence that not so great either to condemne a man to so horrible punishment or to deny him vtterly all maner of helpe and comfort The discipline of the Church when it is most seuere is to bring to repentaunce them that are in life not to rage against them that are deade which can not repent Nor to reiect any man vtterly but him that is certainly knowne to be vtterly forsaken of god But this Geminius Victor of whom Cyprian thus writeth was a good Christian in somuch that Cyprian him selfe calleth him his brother Geminius Victor frater noster de saeculo excedens Our brother Geminius Victor departing out of this world c. Wherfore if the punishment had extended to the torment of his soule or the hinderance of reliefe vnto his soule being in tormentes the Churche would not haue bene so rigorous against a faithful brother for mayntenance of their owne decree which was not expresly forbidden by the word of god Wherefore it may appeare that this punishment was only a note of ignominy to Victor him selfe for his transgression at his departure especially an example for the rest of the brethren as Cyprian sayth that they cal not away the ministers of God from his seruice to worldly affayres lest they be likewise noted of infamy when they are deade 5 And here nowe our aduersaries must be called vpon and asked howe they can away with this geare whether this light of trueth be not ouer vehement for their bleared eyes owle light or moneshine I trow or mirke midnight were more fit for their darke workes and doctrine our waye is ouer much trodden for theeues All this course of our cause so agreeth with it selfe so standeth with reason so vpholden by scripture so ordered in all pointes that Momus him selfe coulde practise no art nor picke no quarelles here For such we must praye for those we must not praye in this case the sacrifice of Gods Church relieueth the departed in that case it is comfortable onely to the liuinge some men neede helpe after their death others helpe we neede and not they ours for open infidelles and heretikes prayers are not vsed for all secret offendres because their case is not knowen to the Church of charity towardes her children she openly prayeth some she punisheth some she pardoneth for all she merueillous tenderly careth This doctrine of trueth is purposely ordered by our elders euery point is touched and tried to our handes VVhat time of the day was it in Gods Church saye trueth and shame the deuill when holy Cyprian wrote these thinges when the Councell of Aphricke decreed these thinges when Victor was punished by lacke of sacrifice and prayers at his departure doeth your time of ignoraunce which you haue limited for your walke reach vp so high in Gods house but I will spare you to anone your aunswere is not ready 5 And here now our aduersary must occupy his goose quill like the gooses trumpet to awake vs to aunswere him as though we were a sleepe or he so well appoynted to fight against vs we must be asked howe we can away with this geare Surely as the sunne is not obscured with the dust that a cocke casteth vp wheÌ„ he scrapeth on the dunghill no more is the sonne of righteousnes our onely ful redemption or the light of his holy word darkned by all the myste of mennes deuises which Allen or his complices can rayse out of the whole heape of superstition and errour to deface the glory of his truth The Lord is our light and saluation therefore we will not be a feard of purgatory The word of the Lorde is a light vnto our steppes and a lanterne vnto our feete therefore we will not walke in the darkenes of mens traditions Our workes and doctrine shall one daye be tryed before God and therfore we make no accompt how we be iudged by mans daye and lest of all by such a mans dome as hath his tongue more ready to rayle and sclaunder then his hearte instructed to discerne and iudge your way is your owne way and not the way of the Lorde and because you take an other way vnto saluation then the onely right way Iesus Christ therefore by his owne sentence you are all theeues and murderers But because you gather your forces together to shew the strength of your cause I will also generally shew your feeblenesse to the ouerthrow of your purpose The course of your cause you say so agreeth with it selfe What els To proue that there is purgatory you vrge the satisfying of Gods iustice so extremely that beside the suffering of Christ and forgeuenes of sinnes yet there must needes be a suffering of the party that offended But when you will shew by what meanes this suffering maye be either mitigated or cleane taken away you cleane take away the extremitie of Gods iustice which before you so earnestly maintained O worthy agreemeÌ„t of your cause with it selfe Beside the agreement with it selfe it so standeth with reason Suerly howe reasonable so euer it seemeth to you that the merites of men shoulde winne that which the merites of Christ coulde not winne that the suffering of men shoulde satisfie for that which the suffering of Christ coulde not satisfie with the
true worship to banish together our fathers faith CAP. XII 1 IN this chapter where he vomiteth out nothing but rayling and lying he doth rather bewraye his owne infirmitie then touch the strength of our cause For being trobled with a sore laxe of the tongue which I take to be a like disease in the mouth that it is in the wombe he gusheth out nothing but bragging and faceing scolding and sclaundering tauntinge and trifling And therefore I will but breefely confute his vanity and turne him to his matches to contend in that kind of quarreling The chiefe argument he sayeth that the Church in times past and Augustine the Churches champion vsed against the Pelagians was to shewe that their heresie was contrary to the publicke prayers of the Church what shoulde I vse many wordes I appeale to the iudgement of all Papistes that haue not loste all vse of naturall reason and indifferent iudgement which either haue reade or will take paines to reade so many workes as Augustine did write against the Pelagians whether of an hundreth arguments that he vseth this insultation be not one of the feeblest which tooke no holde of the Pelagians by force of trueth that is in it but by their owne concession and graunt of that prayer to be godly and them to be of the Church that so prayed But now the controuersie is not onely of the substance of doctrine but of the Church it selfe also And therefore when Augustine had to doe with the Donatistes that challenged the Church vnto them selues he setteth all other tryalles aside and prouoketh onely to the scriptures Therefore M. Allen if you wil teach your schollers to kepe vs at the baye as heretikes you must not teach them to barke and baule nothing but the Church the Church like tinckers curres but you must instructe them to open conningly out of the scriptures how our doctrine is cōtrary to the trueth and yours agreable to the same I do not blame you if you would faine haue that argument of the Church without tryall which is the Church to take place for it woulde ease you and your fellowes of much paine it woulde serue you both for a sworde and a buckler all other bookes arguments and reasons might be layed a side and keepe silence The Church sayth it and we are the Church therefore it is true The scriptures them selues are altogether needelesse where this argument may stand for payment This is so plaine a proofe that the aduersaries shall not be able to saye baffe vnto it In deede they were but sory whelpes that could not say baffe to the bleating of such a calfe as you are which thinke that such a foolish cauill can carry credit with them that haue any cromme of brayne in their heads The Church prayeth so therefore it is true Nay Syr you pray and practise to controle the word of God therefore you are not the Church of god Proue that you doe not so or else prate as long as you wil. And thinke not to dorre vs with Cyprians name where as if you had his iudgement we might be bold to say as the same Augustine hath giuen vs example Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam cum eius quaslibet literas à canonica diuinarum scripturarum auctoritate distinguimus Neque enim sine causa tam salubri vigilantia canon Ecclesiasticus constitutus est ad quem certi Prophetarum Apostolorum libri pertinent quos omninò iudicare non audeamus secundum quos de caeteris literis vel fidelium vel infidelium liberè vindicemus Contra Cresconium Gram. lib. 2. cap. 31. We doe Cyprian none iniurie at all when we put difference betwene any of his writinges from the canonicall authoritie of the holy Scriptures For not without a cause with so holesome diligence is the ecclesiasticall canon appoynted vnto which certeyne bookes of the Prophets and Apostles doe perteyne which we dare not iudge at all according to which we may freely iudge of all other writings either of faithfull men or infidells And againe in the 32. chapter Ego huius epistolae auctoritate non teneor quia literas Cypriani non vt Canonicas habeo sed eas ex canonicis considero quod in eis diuinarum scripturarum auctoritati congruit cum laude eius accipio quod autem non congruit cum pace eius respuo I am not bound to the authoritie of this epistle because I count the letters of Cyprian not as canonicall scriptures but I consider them by the canonicall scriptures and what so euer I finde in them agreeable to the authoritie of holy Scriptures I take it with his prayse that which agreeeth not I reiect it with his leaue Iudge here gentle reader whether Augustine would or should with any indifferency bind either men to the absolute admitting of Cyprians authoritie wherwith he would not be holden him self and know Allen for a Iangler on Augustines wordes against the meaning of Augustine or any reasonable man. 2 I would learne by what Churches example they haue lefte out of their newe fangled phantasticall seruice the offering and praying for the departed One of them was so impudent to say in an open booke that the Lyturgies of the fathers made all against the Catholikes for the proofe of their false assertions VVherein sir I pray you tell me I woulde call you by your name if I knew who you were there you were ashamed of your owne name therefore ye shall lacke the glory of your assertion But who so euer you be I pray you what affinitie betwixt their office of celebration and yours doe you finde they offer the holy hoste they worship it they shewe it they pray vnto it which of all these doe you they blesse it with the signe of the holy crosse they practise the action vpon an altar how well follow you these they pray for the deade they make inuocation solemnely to sainctes they ioyne with all catholike Churches in the worlde where is your cause here amended or ours not plainely proued If their seruice like you so wel or at least better thē S. Gregories Masse you might with more honestie haue chosed for any one of them then haue forged a newe one of your owne which in deede is directly repugnant to all other rites in the Christian world VVhich you may well terme the seruice of contradiction and damnation as one that neither communicateth with the sainctes in heauen with the soules in purgatory nor with the faithfull a liue And being ashamed of the Latine Church you chalenge an other origine of faith out of the Easte parte as though your matter were well amended if you might shake of that faith and worship which our countrie in her conuersion first receiued and in which till this daye she hath happely lyued and make the heade of our holy tradition vncertaine by referring vs vnto an vnknowen origine 2 He would know by what churches example we haue
Scriptures nor in the most auncient writers that lyued with in an hundreth yeares and more after the time of christ And to the particuler practise of the later times we aunswere that it is not sufficient to controll the auncient doctrine and primer practise If we be required to shew some place of any auncient writer which denyeth purgatory or prayers for the deade we haue already shewed that Augustine some time doth doubt whether there be purgatory some time affirmeth there is no meane or thirde place but heauen for the elect and hell for the reprobate likewise for praying or satisfying for the deade we haue alleaged Cyprian and others your owne common law out of Hieronym sayth that the prayers of the liuing profit not the deade 13. quaest 2. In praesenti saeculo c. In this present worlde we knowe that one of vs may be helped of an other either by prayers or by counsells but when we shoulde come before the iudgement seate of Christ neither Iob nor Daniel nor Noe can intreate for any man but euery man must beare his owne burthen Yea Gelasius the Pope sayth that no man can be absolued of the Pope after his death 24. q. 2. C. legatur Wherefore serue the Popes pardons then To that which is required of the expresse word of God forbidding prayers for the deade we aunswere that all places of scripture that forbidde prayers without fayth forbidde prayer for the deade for faith is not euery mans vaine perswasion but an assurance out of the worde of God which because we can not haue in praying for the dead therefore we are forbidden to praye for them If it be against the hope of Christians to morne for the deade much more it is against the fayth and hope of Christians to praye for them For by our prayer we suppose them to be in misery whome the worde of God doth testifie to be in happines to be at rest to be with Christ Iohn 17. Apoc. 14. And as for a place so expounded by an auncient writer I will seeke no farther then the place of Hieronym euen now alleaged out of your owne canon lawe vppon 2. Cor. 5. referring the reader to many other places alleaged in this aunswere as out of Cyprian Origene and others by which the intollerable lying bragging and rayling of this miscreant shal be better confuted then by any contradiction of wordes And where as he sayeth we chalenge the olde doctors before the simple for our partakers whether they be simple or wise before whom we speake as we speake not alwayes before the simple onely but often times and commonly before as wise and well learned men as M. Allen we neuer make any such challenge of them as the Papistes doe which offer to stand to their iudgement in all thinges and yet in most thinges yea in the cheefest pointes of religion that be so in deede or be so compted of them they are contrary to the doctors and olde councells for which cause and not for confirmation of trueth we alleage the authoritie of men for we haue learned as Augustine sayth to geue this honor only to the canonicall scriptures that we must beleue them with out controuersie and all other writings we receiue so farre as they agree with the scriptures and not other wise wherefore we doe not onely saye that the doctors haue erred like men but we haue proued it so that the Papistes them selues can not saye naye for shame But to that he sayth we doe boldely condemne the holy Scriptures that it out of all measure impudent and sclaunderous And that which he citeth out of Irenaeus belike as he had it of some foolish priest that fedde him with notes of doctors or as he is impudent enough to peruerte the fathers meaning him selfe so if he had alleged the whole sentence he might well haue taken him selfe and the rest of his fellowes by the noses for heretikes by the iudgemeÌ„t of Irenaeus whose wordes be these Cum enim ex scripturis arguantur in accusationem conuertuntur ipsarum scripturarum quasi non rectè habâ—ant neque sit ex authoritate quia variè sunt dictae quia non possit inueniri veritas ab his qui nesciant traditionem non enim per literas traditam illam sed per viuam vocem When they be confuted by the scriptures they are turned into the accusation of the scriptures them selues as though they were not well nor of sufficient authority both because the trueth can not be founde of them which knowe not the tradition for that was not deliuered by writing but by worde of mouth How saye you M Allen who is an heretike by Irenaeus iudgement who accuseth the scriptures as though they were not of sufficient authority who sayth the scriptures are like a nose of waxe who saye the trueth can not be founde in scriptures without tradition of vnwritten verities In good sooth M. Allen you haue the worst grace of any that euer I knew in alleaging the sentences of the doctors for you alleage fewe or none but either in whole or in parte they make against you 9 But if you thinke that I feane of them you shall see what shamefull shiftes the maisters and captaines of the contrary assertion haue deuised for the defense of them selues I dare say if the studious be but any whit indiffereÌ„t he will leaue their sâ—hoole for euer The chiefe Captaine of all these contentious heades like an vnshamefast childe affiâ—meth that the doctors praysed and followed the common errors of the ignorant people in almes and prayers for the departed Brentius aunswereth that Tertullian making mention of yearly oblations for the deceased tooke his error of the hethen vsage of the gentility And Augustine he saith affirmed purgatory prayers and almes for them for the affiance that he had in mens merites towardes the remission of sinnes Melancthon as though he were no man that might orre him selfe sayth the doctors were men and discented amongest them selues As for the vsage of any celebration in the worlde what roume can it haue with these champians when Câ—luin confesseth in plaine termes that the celebration of the Sacrament hath bene contaminated euen in a maner sith the Apostles time and first planting of our religion and to reduce it to the puritie againe the man frames a newe one of his owne so farre from superstition that it hath no steppe of religion or true worship of god But well the worde of God is yet safe with them there a man may holde them No surely they are as â—alsie with the very scripture it selfe when so euer it maketh against them Brentius before named is not ashamed to saye that he pardoneth the author of the Machabeis of his error and ignorance And that thou may see the perfect image of a prowde heretike Caluin sayth thus as for the booke of the Machabeis I will not vouâ—hsalfe to make aunswere to it Mercifull God what faithfull
fitly stande with the happy case of all those that dye in the fauour of God and assurance of their saluation though they abide sharpe but sweete paine of fatherly discipline for their better qualifying to the ioyes prepared for them and all other the elect So that nowe the mouing of these doubtes hath so litle aduantaged our aduersaries that it hath somewhat geuen occasion of further declaration of our matter then otherwise perchaunce we shoulde haue had 6 The last obiection that you list to trouble your head with all is that voyce which was heard from heauen Apoc. 14. of the blessed state of them that dye in the Lord in the meaning of which you wrest and wrigle like a snake that is smitten on the head but you can not auoyd the strife First you vnderstand it onely of Martyres that dye in the Lord and call Augustine to witnesse thereof As I will not deny but Martyrs are specially comforted by that voyce so I wil affirme that it is to the common comfort and rewarde of all the faythfull in Christ who as they liue in Christ so they dye in christ And witnesse hereof I will not take of flesh and blood but of the holy Ghost Rom 14. None of vs liueth vnto him selfe neither doth any dye vnto him selfe for whether we liue we liue vnto the Lorde and whether we dye we dye vnto the Lorde And the Apostle 1. Cor. 15. nameth the faithfull that are a sleepe in Christ and 1. Thes. 4. them that are deade in christ Wherefore in despite of the deuill and the Pope this blessing apperteyneth to all them that dye in the Lord Iesus Christ as true members of his body and not to them onely that shedde their bloud for christ True it is that all they that would liue godly in Christ Iesus suffer persecution but not all to the death else who are those innumerable Saincts that no man can number of all nations and tongues which S. Iohn sawe Apoc. 7. who are likewise in happy and blessed rest without all maner lacke or hurt hunger thirst or heate but when you are weary of that interpretation you wring out an other that they in purgatory also be happy because they be sure of saluation at last and the rest from labours is either the rest from sinne or else no more but ioy of conscience witnesse of this exposition is the canon of the Masse The witnesse the matter and he that vseth it are all of like credit But if I might pose your conscience M. Allen can you call that a happy rest which is ioyned with such torment misery as you beare men in hand is in purgatory Haue you forgotten that you sayd yere while of Tabitha and Lazarus that it was a benefite for them to be deliuered out of purgatory into this life and is it now a blessing to be dispatched out of this life into purgatory And as for that which you allege out of the canon of your masse declareth that your masse was patched togither of many peeces of diuers colours For you pray for the rest of them whome you confesse to be at rest in Christ you wish easement for them whom you affirme to sleepe in peace As though in Christ were not perfect rest as though in peace there were torment and this exposition you your selfe are weary of also and turne agayne to your former and then backe againe to the latter An vnconstaâ—t man is vncerteyne in all his wayes yet all were litle worth if this place helped not to proue purgatory also For the payne of purgatory is a sweete payne a happy rest a fatherly discipline And yet as Augustine sayth it is but for small faultes or as you say for great faultes that by penance are made small And is God such a mercifull father to punish small faultes so extremely in his children whom he pardoneth of all their great and heynous sinnes O blasphemous helhoundes An aunsvvere to their negatiue argument vvith the Conclusion of the booke CAP. XVII 1 BVt yet one common engine they haue as well for the impugnation of the trueth in this point as for the sore shaking of the weake walles of the simples faith allmost in all their fight that they kepe against the Catholikes VVhich though it be not stronge yet it is a marueillous fit reasoning for so fonde a faith For if thou caste an earnest eye vpon their whole doctrine thou shalt finde that it principally and in a maner wholy consistithe in taking awaye or wasting an other faith that it founde before so that the preachers thereof must euer be destroyers pluckers downe and rooters vp of the trueth grounded before VVill you see then what a Protestants faith and doctrine is deny onely and make a negation of some one article of our belefe and that is a forme of his faith which is lightely negatiue There is no free will there is no workes needefull to saluation there is no Church knowen there is no chiefe gouernour therof there be not seuen sacraments they doe not conferre gratiam geue grace Baptisme is not necessary to saluation Christ is not present on the aultar there is no sacrifice there is no priesthood there is no aultar there is no profit in prayers to sainctes or for the deade there is no purgatory Christ went not downe to hell there is no limbus finally if you liste goe forwarde in your negatiue faith there is no hell there is no heauen there is no god Doe you not see here a trimme faith and a substantiall looke in Caluins Institutions and you shall finde the whole frame of this wasting faith There is nothing in that blasphemous booke nor in their Apologies but a gathered bodie of this no faith For so it must needes be that teacheth no trueth but plucketh vp that trueth which before was planted Is it not a prety doctrine that Caluine makes of the sacraments when he telleth not the force of any of them all but onely standeth like a fearce monstruous swhine rooting vp our fathers faith therein CAP. XVII 1 IT vexeth you at the very hart that we require the authority of the holy Scriptures to confirme your doctrine hauing a playne commaundement out of the word of God that if any man teach otherwise then the word of God alloweth he is to be accursed And therfore you runne to a childish kinde of Sophistry to say that our argument is negatiue A perlous point that almost all the Papistes thinke them selues more then Chrisippus or Aristoteles when they tell vs that our argument is ab auctoritate negatiuè Alacke poore logicke All knowledge that christian men haue of heauenly thinges is grounded vpon the authority of Gods word therefore as it is no good logicke to conclude negatiuely of one place or booke of Scripture this is not conteined in it therefore it is not true so of the whole doctrine of God wherein all truth necessary to saluation is
and the whole congregation yea and speciall regard of the oblations of the poore And in the perticular rehearsing of diuerse kind of persons and the forme of the sacrifice named according to euery perticular state it is so farre of that the deade shall be reckned that such thinges are enioyned euery of these perticular persons to doe as it is playne that none but the liuing could offer or haue sacrifice offered for thē What law was appoynted touching lamenting for the deade you may reade Leuit. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any but speciall persons also Nu. 19. diuerse ordinances concerning the deade yet neuer any sacrifice or prayer for the deade When Nadab and Abihu were slayne their father and brethren were forbidden to mourne for them the people were permitted By all which it appeareth not only that no sacrifice for the deade was offered but that they were so separated from the liuing that the Priestes might haue nothing to do with any of them but in speciall cases And as for your common shift of the common body of the liuing and the deade helpeth you nothing for although all the faithfull make one body in Christ yet there is one state of them that worke an other of them that are iudged according to their works to put no diuersitie betwene them is not to make a communion but a confusion But of all other it is a clerkely cōclusion that you send M. Grindall to looke vpon the example of your masse whith is a sacrifice both for the quicke the deade and thereof will proue that the olde lawe had but one sacrifice for the liue and the deade In deede there you were to good for him if the practise of the popish church be a good president for Moyses to follow in his law we will reason no longer But the fact of Iudas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt Surely then the fact of euery man that transgressed the lawe shall be sufficient to proue what the lawe was and not the booke of the lawe For else how coulde he haue conceiued any sacrifice which he neuer hearde of How did Dauid conceiue the cariage of the arke in a newe cart which he neuer heard of except it were of the Philistians that sent home the arke in a cart And euen so it is like that Iudas Machabaeus if he deuised not that sacrifice of his owne head yet tooke it by imitation of the Gentiles whose studies and practises your owne author confesseth were more frequented in those dayes among the Iewes then the preaching or keeping of the law Finally to all the other howe 's and whyes I aunswere with one word he had no warrant of his fact in the law of god Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answere the heretike that would proue by that fact that men dying in deadly sinne might be saued by sacrifice For though they were not vncircumcised for whom Iudas sent an offering yet they dyed in deadly sinne and such sinne as for which they were iustly slayne as your owne author confesseth for the idolatrous iewells that they had euery one in their bosomes Concerning the authoritie of that booke and how it was taken by Augustine I haue aunswered enough before 4 But here will I nowe make an ende desiring thee gentle reader with such indifferency to weighe the doing and dealing of both parties as the importaunce of the cause the loue of truth the necessary care of thine owne saluation and thy duety towardes God and his Church requireth There is none of all those pointes which the vnfaithfull contention of our miserable age hath made doubtefull in which thou mayest better beholde howe vpright the wayes of trueth and vertue be and howe pernicious double and deceitfull the dealing of heresie is The one is vpholden by the euidēt testimony of holy scripture the other mainteineth her traine by bolde deniall of scriptures the one seeketh with humility the meaning at their mouthes whome God hath vndoubtedly blessed with the gifte of vnderstanding and interpretation the other by singular pride foundeth her vnfaithfulnesse vpon the phantasies of light and lewde persons that are pufte too and fro with euery blaste of doctrine The one resteth vpon the practise of all nations the vsage of all ages and the holy workes both of God and man the other holdeth wholy by contempte of our elders flatery of the present dayes and vnhappy waste of all workes of vertue religion and deuotion the one followeth the gouernours and appointed pastours of our soules whose names be blessed in heauen and earth the other ioyneth to such as for other horrible heresies wicked life are condemned both a liue and deade of the vertuous and can not for shame be named of their owne scholars The one hath the warraunt of Gods whole Church the other standeth on curse and excommunication by the grauest authority that euer was vnder God in earth To be shorte trueth is the Churches dearlinge heresie must haue her maintenaunce abrode This one holy Catholike and Apostolike Church is it wherevnto we owe all duety and obedience both by Gods commaundement and by the bonde of our first faith and profession There is no force of argument no probability of reason no subtelty of witte no deepe compasse of wordely wisedome no eloquence of man nor Angell nor any other motion that can be wrought in the world that shoulde make a man doubte of any article approued by her authority And if thou yet feare to geue ouer thy whole sense and thine owne selfe to so carefull a mother in whome thou wast begotten in thy better birth compare our Church with theirs compare her authority and theirs her maiesty and theirs 4 In Gods name let the readers waye indifferently the doinges and dealinges on both partes the cause the trueth their saluation the Church and the glory of God aboue all thinges And as they see this pointe handeled so let them iudge of the reste The trueth is vpholden by euident testimony of scripture the error by custome practise and iudgement of men The trueth seeketh vnderstanding of the scriptures of the spirite of God in the scriptures error at the mouthes of mortall men The trueth resteth vpon the onely authority of God error vpon the maintenaunce of carnall deuises The trueth is founded vpon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles the other vpon Gentiles and heretikes Trueth is embraced of the pure and primitiue Church of Christ error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ vnto a plaine departing awaye into the church of Antichrist To be short trueth is tryed by the worde of God heresie by the inuention of men The holy Catholicke and Apostolicke Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God and the Synagoge of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authoritie aboue the worde The true Church shall neuer decaye but alwaye reigne with Christ the false Synagoge shall daily more and more decaye
penaunce there remaineth some due of temporall punishement for the satisfying of Gods iustice and some recompense of the oftensies past 31. chapter 2 The double and doubtfull shiftes of our aduersaries pressed by this conclusion are remoued and it is proued against one sorte that these foresaide skourgies vvere in deede punishments for sinnes remitted And against the other secte that this transitory paine hath often endured in the next life 43. chapter 3 That the practise of Christes Church in the courte of binding and loosing mans sinnes doth liuely set forth the ordre of Gods iustice in the next life and proue Purgatory 65. chapter 4 That the many folde vvorkes fructes of penaunce vvhich all godly meÌ„ haue charged theÌ„ selues vvith all for their ovvn sinnes remitted vvere in respect of Purgatory paines for the auoyding of Gods iudgemeÌ„t teÌ„poral as vvell as eternal in the next life 74. chapter 5 A briefe ioyning in reason and argument vppon the proued groundes vvith the aduersaries for the declaration and proofe of Purgatory 89. chapter 6 That Purgatory paines doth not only serue Gods iustice for the punishement of sinne but also cleanse qualify the soule of man defiled for the more seemely entrauÌ„ce into the holy placies vvith confereÌ„ce of certaine textes of scripturs for that purpose 92. chapter 7 That there is a particular iudgemeÌ„t and priuate accompt to be made at euery mans departure of his seuerall actes and deedes vvith certaine of the fathers mindes touching the textes of scriptures alleaged before 103. chapter 8 Origen is alleaged for our cause vpon vvhose error in a matter somvvhat apperteining to our purpose S. Augustins iudgement is more largely sought and there vvith it is declared by testimony of diuers holy authors vvhat sinnes be chiefly purged in that temporall fire 114. chapter 9 A further declaration of this point for the better vnderstanding of the doctors vvordes VVherein it is opened hovv Purgatory is ordeined for mortall sinnes and hovv for smaller offenses vvho are like to feele that greefe and vvho not at all 125. chapter 10 A place alleaged for Purgatory out of S. Matthevv vvith certeine of the auncient fathers iudgements vpon the same 132. chapter 11 An aunsvvere to certaine obiections of the aduersaries moued vpon the diuersity of meaninges vvhich they see geuen in the fathers vvritinges of the scriptures before alleaged for Purgatory and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiency of Christes Passion 148. chapter 12 An euident and most certaine demonstration of the trueth of Purgatory and the greeuousnesse thereof vttered by the prayers and vvordes of the holy doctors and by some extraordinary vvorkes of God beside 156. chapter 13 Of the nature and condicion of Purgatory fire the difference of their state that be in it from the damned in hell vvith the conclusion of this Booke 169. THE ARGVMENTES OF THE Chapters of the seconde booke THe preface of this booke vvherein the matter of the treatise the order of the authors proceding be briefly opened 180 chapter 1 That there be certeyne sinnes vvhich may be forgiuen in the next life and that the deserued punishment for the same may be eased or vtterly released before the extreme sentence be to the vtmost executed pag. 187. chapter 2 That the faythfull soules in purgatory being novve past the state of deseruing and not in case to helpe them selues may yet receiue benefite by the vvorkes of the liuing to vvhom they be perfectly knitte as felloâ— members of one body 197. chapter 3 VVhat the Church of God hath euer principally practised for the soules departed by the vvarrant of holy Scripture vvith the defence of the Machabees holy hystory against the heretikes of our tyme. 205. chapter 4 That the funeralls of the Patriarches both in the lavv of nature and Moyses and Christ had practise in them for the reliefe of the soules departed 220. chapter 5 Man may be relieued after his departure eyther by the almes vvhich he gaue in his life tyme or by that vvhich is prouided by his testament to be giuen after his death or else by that almes vvhich other men doe bestovv for his soules sake of their ovvne goods 238. chapter 6 Of certeyne offerings or publike almes presented to God for the deceased in the time of the holy sacrifice at mens burialls other customable dayes of their memories and of the sundry mindes kept in the primitiue Church for the departed 266. chapter 7 That the benefite of praier almes apperteyneth not to such as dye in mortal sin though in the doubtfull case of mans being the Church vseth to pray for all departed in Christes faith 271. chapter 8 VVhat that holy sacrifice is vvhich vvas euer counted so beneficiall to the liue and deade The punishment of our sinnes by the heâ—uy losse thereof The great hatred vvhich the deuill and all his side hath euer borne tovvardes Christes eternall priesthood and the sacrifice of the Church And that by the sayd sacrifice of the Masse the soules departed are especially relieued 288. chapter 9 That the practise of any poynt in religion maketh the most opeÌ„ shevv of the fathers faith And that all holy men haue in plain vvordes and most godly prayers vttered their beliefe in our matter 304. chapter 10 That vve all nations receiued this vsage of praying sacrificing for the departed at our first conuersion to Christes faith And that this article vvas not onely confirmed by miracle amongest the rest but seuerally by signes and vvonders approued by it selfe And that the Church is grovvne to such bevvty by the frute of this faith 328. chapter 11 That in euery order or vsage of celebration of the blessed Sacrament and Sacrifice throughout the Christian vvorlde since Christes time there hath ben a solemne supplicatioÌ„ for the soules departed 347. chapter 12 The heretikes of our tyme and cuntry be yet further vrged vvith the practise of prayers for the deceased their contrary coÌ„munion is compared vvith the olde vsage of celebration â—hey are ashamed of the first originall of their Christian faith they are vveary of their ovvne seruice they are kept in order by the vvisdome of the ciuill Magistrates and are forced to refuse all the doctors 364. chapter 13 That the praying for the deade vvas appoynted to be had in the holy sacrifice by the Apostles commaundement and prescription And that our doctors by the maiestie of their name beare dovvne our light aduersaries 386. chapter 14 The first author of that sect vvhich denyeth prayers for the departed is noted his good conditions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kind of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that sect And that this heresie is euer ioyned as a fitte compagnion to other horrible sectes 407. chapter 15 Their falshood is condemned and the Catholike truth approued by the authority of holy Councells Their pride in contemning the Catholikes humility in obedient receiuing the same And a sleight vvhereby the heretikes deceiue the people is detected 424. chapter 16 An aunsvvere to such arguments as the heretikes doe frame of the holy scriptures not vvell vnderstanded against the practise of Gods Church in praying for the deade or the doctrine of Purgatory 436. chapter 17 An aunsvvere to their negatiue argument vvith the Conclusion of the booke 448. FINIS
TVVO TREATISES WRITTEN AGAINST THE PAPISTES THE ONE BEING AN answere of the Christian Protestant to the proud challenge of a Popish Catholicke THE OTHER A CONFVTATION OF THE POPISH CHVRCHES doctrine touching Purgatory prayers for the dead by William Fulke Doctor in diuinitie Imprinted at London by Thomas Vautrollie◠dwelling in the Blacke friers 1577. TO THE CHRISTIAN READER WILLIAM FVLKE WISHETH GRACE AND PEACE from God the father and from our Lord Iesus Christ. THE great bragges that vvere made by diuers Papistes of this treatise of Purgatory that it vvas vnansvverable vvere so vntollerable that certeine of my godly friendes vvere moued thereby to sende the booke to me desiring me to shape an aunsvvere vnto it But vvhen I had readde it ouer and founde therein in deed much nevv rayling yet nothing else but the olde fonde kinde of reasoning I vvas altogether vnvvilling to deale vvith it both because there hath bene so much already vvritten of that argument and for that I thought that our contrymen vvere novv as vvel by reading of that vvhich hath ben vvritten before as also by continuall preaching against that absurde doctrine sufficiently dissvvaded from that blaspemous heresie of Purgatory But vvhē this excuse or any other that I could bring vvoulde not satisfie there ernest desier vvho importunatly still vrged me to take the matter in hand that I had once againe perused the treatise I began to thinke othervvise of the vvhole case then I did before I considered that many there vvere vvhich perhaps had not seene and many also that vvoulde not reade such bookes as haue bene vvritten in times past of this question that some also vvere so simple that they could not discerne this nevv disguised defence of the Catholike churches doctrine from the olde drousie dreame of popish Purgatory VVherefore if any one of these or any other that shall voutsalfe to reade this ansvvere might therby either be confirmed in trueth or reclaymed from error I began to thinke it vvere sufficient cause for me to take the paines and the paines so taken to be vvel bestovved Againe vvhen I remembred the spightfull rayling and the most disdainefull arrogance of Allen him selfe together vvith the presumptuous boasting and vaine confidence that some of his friends haue in his vvriting I cōfesse it kindled that smal zeale of godlines that is in me both to meinteine the common hope of Christians against the insolent assaultes of so malicious and proud an aduersary and also to discouer the infirmitie feeblenesse of that fortres vvhich these vvillfully blinde Papistes do vaunt to be inuincible In vvhich doinge I haue vsed great breuitie not onely by a naturall inclination vvherby I loue to be short in any thing that I vvright but also because my friendes vrged me to dispatch it vvith so great expedition And yet in this shortnesse I trust I haue not omitted any thing that hath any shadovv of reason or shevv of matter in it but that I haue sufficiently discharged it as the diligent and attentiue reader I hope vvill confesse no lesse Hovv be it neither my hast in finishing nor my friendes diligence in soliciting vvas so great but the slacknesse and vntovvardnesse of some Printers vvas much more For vvhere as it vvas ended authorized almost tvvo yeares a goe yet it hath stayed hetherto vntill a godly and learned brother vvho vvas once purposed to haue aunsvvered the same him selfe and colde full vvell and substantially haue acquited him selfe there in if other busines had not hindred him moued of godly zeale hath novv at the last vndertaken the printing thereof and brought it to this passe as you see I hearde of late also of a third man vvhich had learnedly begon the aunsvvering of this booke hovv so euer he vvas letted from accomplishing the same But hovv so euer Satan hath hether to hindred the setting abroade of this aunsvvere yet God hath novv at the length brought it forth I doubte not but to his glorie and the confusion of Satan in his membres the Papistes I haue thought good also to ioygne vnto this vvorke an other short treatise that hath lyen by me these eight or nine yeares vvritten at the request of a godly and learned friende of mine in aunsvvere to a proude challenge of the Papist against the Protestāt vvhich though at the first many yeares after I determined not to publish supposing the same challenge to haue ben priuate or in fevv mens handes yet novv of late that I haue seen it in diuerse godly Gentlemens handes to vvhome it hath bene deliuered by Papistes be like to peruert them and of vvhome also I haue bene desired to ansvvere it am further credibly informed that the same is in printe esteemed of many ignorant Papistes to be so vnaunsvverable that although it be protested by Gētlemen of great vvorshippe and credit that they haue seene the aunsvvere thereof in vvriting yet they vvill not beleue that any man dare set his penne to the paper once to attempt the matter I haue thought beste to putte it in printe as it vvas vvritten at the first Nothing doubting by Gods helpe but I shal be able to stande to that defence if the challenger vvill proceede to meinteine his challenge any longer That I haue copled it vvith the aunsvvere vnto M. Allens booke is because I doe greatly suspect that he vvas the authour thereof for the similitude of the stiles and of the stomakes in both at the least I trust I doe him no vvronge to suppose him to be so stout a champion And thus I committe the Christian reader to the direction of Gods spirite vvho voutsalfe to lead thee into all truth for Christes sake Amen The faultes of this impression are thus to be amended The first figure signifieth the page the second the line In the aunswere of a true Christian c. Pag. 3. line 35. Lithuania reade Lithūanda 5.3 vvriting r. vvritinges 10.10 the scripture reade the booke of scripture 13.17 then reade thou and line 19. you reade thou 15. line the laste Tiberius reade Liberius 19.4 you reade the. and line 10. Ca. line 58. reade Carolines 8. and line 19. Mercamas r. Marranias 20.9 fauour reade honor 23.26 the prince reade the printers 24.1 put out and. 25.9 not for his r. for his 29.10 vnitie of minde r. vnitie of faith minde 30.3 in the places aboue rehearsed in diuerse places of his epistles a◠lib. 3. epist. 14. and 15.16 c. 41.30 Rhenes r. Rhemes 49.5 the the r. that the. the 12. r. the Catho c. 52.13 in Brytish reade in the Brytish 63.14 about the articles r. about the chiefest articles 64.20 put out that hilde and the 24. here rea sore 67.21 vvhich can not rea vvhich you can not 68.4 in a name reade in a manner 69.4 prorsus opinemur r. prorsus non opinemur and 34. vniuersally r. vniuersalitie and 36. vvhich you do r. vvhich you do not 70.17 proponēda
r. praeponeÌ„da 22. in a. r. in the. 24. vvhen r. vvheÌ„ the. 71.20 vvhere rea vvere and the 22. to reade in 78.26 that you â—avv a bastard church r. that you being a bastard church haue 87.34 Commentualls rea Conuentualles 91.32 that he rea then he 92.30 cultiued r. coÌ„tinued 97.1 your reade youres 99.13 there rea therefore 14. vinci reade vincè In the aunswere of a true Christian c. pag. 14. li. 6 for that r. theÌ„ 22.21 conseites r. conserues 23.19 they made a cushioÌ„ reade they made mariage a chushion 25.37 fast reade facte 26.37 canche rea couche 30.35 greatest rea great 31.1 reade instrumentes for the defence 46.33 for reade farre 47.30 sinnes reade sinner â—9 19 praedicate rea praeiudicate 64.37 fauteles r. fruictles 87.6 heauie reade hearie 89.2 as reade or 92.6 bitter reade better 95.31 paltinge r. peltinge 102.15 r. liklihodes nuÌ„bred 121.29 conuenientes reade conuenienter 127.13 r. to death a sinne not c. li. 28.10 rea to 139.34 vnrecoÌ„cyled reade that are reconciled 143.2 you reade her 151.27 hath rea hauing 156.5 can not reade can stande c. 205.29 to his brother rea to his brethren 210.14 faste reade facte â—24 31 reade forsakers 232.38 sorovving r. saying 238.10 clame r. exclame 248.1 an reade any 249.23 praie reade praied 255.19 Tecta reade Tecla 259.37 toti reade hi. 262.7 after vvritinges make a ful poinct l. 10. Troianus reade Traianus 14. BarlauÌ„ r. Barlaam 16. Ephraim r. Ephreem 265.27 and 29. Rhenamus reade Rhenanus 268.36 knavv rea knaue 277.17 shoulde seme reade as it shoulde seme 283.2 Capth r. Chapter 284.30 after decree reade concerning that vvhich vvas not c. 286.31 put out he 299.19 had reade hath 295.11 xemia rea xenia 307.8 mistrusted reade misconstrued 316.2 you vvil r. you vvil not 23. then rea thou 334.19 criall reade triall 335.31 put out in 347.1 same reade sunne right reade light 350.6 r. deceiueth c. 361.16 vnto reade in 361.29 profatam rea profoctam 364.31 vve before reade before vve 378.17 vindicemus reade iudicemus and line 37. either reade other 373.11 stringe r. springe 374.10 Consilio Meleuitano r. CoÌ„cilio Mileuitano 382.19 CommoÌ„ r. Cannon 386.31 degree r. pedigree 391.25 thou reade there 396.1 God reade man. 397.24 hidden r. sudden 399.15 as for vvitnesse reade for vvitnesses 406.6 the matter reade thy matter 409.32 make a full poincte after in deed and line 22. put out the full poincte after describeth 435.16 sparte r. sponte and line 29. superstition reade supposition 441.34 parleis rea paruis 443.2 vvhen rea vvhere 31. li. aliquid r. aliquod 447.2 strife reade stripe 455.33 named r. varied li. 34. shall rea should AN ANSVVER OF A TRVE CHRISTIAN TO A COVNTERFAIT CATHOLIKE The proposition of the Aduersarie CHrist did commit at his departure hence the testimony of that truth for which he died and the conuersion of the Nations to the beleefe in him to the true church of God which then stoode principally and almost onely in the persons of the Apostles and a fewe more that by their preachings and those afterward of their calling the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations beginning at Ierusalem and so proceeding to the coastes and corners of the earth AN ANSVVERE TO THE PROPOSITION I Graunt that our Sauiour Christ at his departure hence commaunded his Apostles as principal members of his Church though not the greatest part of it to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death vnto all nations beginning at Ierusalem and so forth according to his saying Goe therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Teaching them to obserue all thinges what so euer I haue commaunded you Matth. 28. Whereuppon I chalenge the Papist that if he be able to proue that the doctrine of poperie is all that trueth and nothing but that trueth for which Christ dyed and which he commaunded the Apostles to teach I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ. The first article conteyneth 3. demandes 1 First I aske of the protestant what Church that was which conuerted all these cuntries that be now Christian to the faith of Christ IF you meane by Christians true Christians and by the faith of Christ the true faith of Christ I answere only the true Church of Christ hath had the worde of God and sacraments as meanes which God vseth to subdue al nations vnto the obedience of the faith as was the primitiue Church of the Apostles which hath continued vnto this daye by succession not of personnes and places but of faith and truth wherefore if the Papist can proue that we holde not the same faith and trueth vnto which the Apostles conuerted the nations we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ. But if by Christians and Christian faith you meane all them that professe the name of Christ in the whole worlde I aunswere that the true Church of Christ did not conuert them all for in Aethiopia there are yet people conuerted by the false apostles which taught circumcision and obseruation of the lawe in which heresie they continue vnto this day and it is manifest by all histories that the nations of the Alanes Gothes and Vandales were first conuerted by the Arrians 2 And let him shew vnto me that euer his Church conuerted any people or lande in the earth from Idolatrie or Gentility or Iudaisme to the true Religion of Christ or that this his fayth was taught to any Nation in steede of true Christianity WE are members of that Church which conuerted all landes in the earth that are conuerted from Idolatry Gentility Iudaisme or heresie to the true Religion of Christ and we affirme that the Apostles taught none other faith in steede of true Christiantie but that which we hold as we are readie to proue by the worde of God And at this daye the most parte of Europe is conuerted from Idolatrie heresie and Antichristianitie vnto the same true faith that we mainteine as in England Scotland Ireland France Germany Denmarke Suetia Bohemia Polonia by publike authoritie in Spaigne and Italie a great numbre vnder persecution and tyrannie Also of the Iewes no small numbre are conuerted to our religion since the rising vp of the Gospell in our dayes 3 Or any Church but the common Catholike Church to haue don that and I recant BEcause you meane by the common Catholike not the true Catholike but the popish church First I denie that euer the popish church conuerted any people to the true faith Secondly I denie that the popish church hath conuerted all nations to the profession of Christ For it is shewed before that the false Apostles and Arians conuerted some nations to the profession of Christes name but yet to false religion And it is also manifest by histories that the Grecians
sermon in such sorte that the common people might vnderstand it and in the 45. Canon they decreed that euery Christian shoulde learne the Creede and the Lorde his prayer Et qui aliter non potuerit vel in sua lingua hoc discat that is And he that can not yet let him learne it in his owne tongue Whereby they declare that they desier to reteine the latine tongue still but rather than the people shoulde be ignorant they commande them to learne their prayers and beleefe in their mother tongue Also by the 43. Canon wherein they iudge that no preeste can saye Masse alone it appeareth that the people commonly vnderstood the latine seruice for they aske how he shoulde saye Dominus vobiscum and admonish the people to lifte vp their heartes and diuers like sayinges where there is none by him but him selfe Nowe if the people vnderstoode not these sayinges it were all one whether they were present or absent Also in the Councell of Rhenes holden in Fraunce about the same time the like decree was made cap. 15. that bishops studie to preache sermons and homelies of the holy fathers so that all men maye vnderstand according to the property of their tongue Finally in the Councell of Laterane holden vnder Pope Innocent the third Anno Dom. 1215. in which Councell transubstantiation was first established the 9. chapter it was plainely decreed that forasmuch as within one citie and diocesse people of diuers languages be mingled together hauing vnder one Faith diuers rites and maners we streightly commande that the bishops of such cities and diocesses prouide able men which according to the diuersitie of their rites and languages celebrate vnto them the diuine seruice and minister the sacramentes instructing them both by worde and example Hereby it appeareth that when the latine tongue was either almost or altogether growen out of the common peoples vnderstandings order was taken that common prayers should be sayed and sacramentes ministred in the mother tongue of euery nation But the bishops which shoulde haue seene it put in execution either negligently omitted it or willingly refused to doe it because it was more for their profit to kepe the people in blinde ignorance So thus I haue shewed that sodenly the tongue of common prayer was not altered 10 Tell me what yeare of our Lorde vnder what Emperour vnder what Pope by whome these thinges were wrought vpon what occasion this marueillous mutation was made WHo can tell the originall of euery blind custome and peuish tradition of euery olde error and foolish fashion it is sufficient to shew that these thinges haue no grounde in the scripture of God they were not taught by Christ and his Apostles nor receiued in the church that followed immediatly after them and then we are bolde to say with Tertullian This preiudice there is against all heresies how soeuer they came vp or when soeuer they sprange vp That is true that was first and that is false that is latter therefore from the beginning it was not vsed to praye for the deade nor to the deade from the beginning common prayer was not in an vnknowen tongue Wherefore prayer for the deade and to the deade with prayer in a strange tongue are false when soeuer they beganne or how long soeuer they continued 11 VVho preached against it what historie maketh mention of it who of all your Pastors preached against it was God his Church so voide of the spirit of Trueth and strength that euen then when it most florished it had none that durst open against â—uch corruption of religion as it entred in and when it might soone haue bene repressed BEfore you demande what yeare the religion of the Papistes came in and whether it came in sodenly and as though we shoulde aunswere that it came in sodainely you demande who preached against it c. This is to fight with your owne shadowe for we say not that it came in sodainely but that it entred by small degrees at the first and therefore was lesse espied by the true Pastors especially being earnestly occupied against great heresies and open aduersaries that sought to beate downe the cheefe foundations of Christian faith as the Valentinians Marcionistes Manichees Arrians Sabellians and such like monsters So when Satan had gotten in one foote by such craftie pollitie he neuer rested vntill he had thrust in his whole bodie with the power of Antichrist 12 If it coulde not shew me then what yeare of the Lorde this mutation was made and who of all the true preachers did with stand this doctrine SO often as you demande one thinge so often must I aunswere after one sorte this mutation was not all in one yeare nor in one hundreth yeares nor in one thousand of yeares for transubstantiation no small article of your religion was not decreed vntill the yeare of God 1215. what preachers haue withstoode your doctrine at diuers times are declared before in the aunswere to the 8. Article 2. demande 13 Or note the name of him that euer first preached any article of our doctrine and if we note you not by their names euery one of your Capitaines and the seuerall errors that they tought and the time and the yeare when they arose against the former receyued trueth and the Councells in which they were orderly condemned if I saye this can be done of your side towarde vs or if we doe it not for improofe of your Church and religion I recant I Haue noted in the answere to the 6. article 3. demande the names of diuers heretikes that first preached diuers articles of your religion and further I note vnto you Pelagius and Coelestius which tought that free will without grace coulde doe somewhat towardes eternall saluation and that grace was geuen according to merite which article you teach also with culler of a distinction De congruo condigno which is a meere cauill for God is as much bounde vnto congruitie as to dignitie or worthinesse and as he can doe nothing against worthinesse no more can he doe any thing against congruitie which is a kinde of Equitie And whereas you bragge to note vnto vs euery one of our Capitaines c. except you note vnto vs the Patriarches Prophets Apostles Euangelistes and Christ himselfe you shall neuer be able to performe that you promise for we teache nothing but the eternall trueth of God wherefore we refuse not to be counted heretikes if you can proue that we holde any one article of faith contrarie to the scripture you may perchaunce note the names of them that preaching the trueth of our doctrine against your receyued errors were accounted of the world for heretikes but you must proue that their opinions are contrarie to the worde of God or els all your labour is in vaine we confesse also that some articles of our doctrine were taught by heretikes as there was neuer no heresie which had not many thinges common with true Religion but yet in
Church only is this sure anchore which the popish church doth so much despise that she counted it heresie for vs to flie vnto Fayth tanquam ad sacram anchoram that is As to our only sure refuge 16 Vinea Domini THe Vineyard of the Lorde is of his owne plantinge dressed tilled by such husbandmen as he hath placed in it which will yeelde him frute in time conuenient This agreeth aptly vnto our Church which alloweth no plant but such as is planted by our heauenly Father This Vineyarde caÌ„ not the popish church be compted which plucketh vppe the vines planted by God and in the steede of them setteth thornes and thistles after the deuises of men 17 Terra viuentium THe land of the lyuing in scripture signifieth this present life as I trusted to see the goodnesse of the Lorde in the lande of the lyuing that is Although I was neare death yet I beleued that God woulde preserue me in this life Psal. 27. And vnto Doeg he sayeth Psal. 52. God shall destroy thy roote out of the lande of the lyuing that is Out of this life Also Ezechias in his psalme Esay 38. I shall not see the Lorde euen the Lorde in the lande of the lyuing that is I shall no more praise God in his temple here in this life And when you shall bring forth a place of scripture where it is proprely applied vnto the church it shal be an easie matter to proue that we onely are the liuely members of Christ which abide in his body receuing all benefites of life from him which is our heade And easie it wil be to proue that you are the lande of the deade men which are strangers from the life of God Ephes. 4. which are aliue in this worlde and not deade vnto Christ. 18 Regina in vestitu de aurato circundata varietatibus ALthough this saying alleaged out of the 45. Psalme be figuratiuely ment of the church as it is literaly spoken of Pharaos doughter whom Solomon maried yet being alleaged not after the trueth of the Hebrue but after the error of the olde translation I will not interprete it contrarie to my conscience as S. Ieronym â—ayeth according to that corrupt version but according to the trueth of the text which is The Queene in a garment of golde of Ophir As for compassing with varieties it is not in the text By this figure the spirituall magnificence of the church of Christ gathered of the Gentiles is set forth vnto vs and therefore let not the Papistes dreame that material golde is the ornament of Christ his spouse but as it is before sayed of the whore of Babylon 19 Ecclesia magna 20 Populus grauis DAuid in the 35. Psalme promiseth that he will geue thankes vnto God after his deliuerance in a great companie and solemne assemblie of people such as was wont to come together at the holy meetings in the Sanctuarie This is the true and the simple meaning of this text And it were to violent an interpretation to inforce it to be a prophesie of the church of Christ although it be true that the church is a great congregation and a mighty people yet remembring therewith that in comparizon of all the worlde it is as Christ him selfe calleth it A litle Flocke 21 Archa Noe. IN the Arch of Noe as S. Peter testifieth 1. Pet. 3. but a fewe namely 8. soules were saued in the water euen as many as were obedient vnto the voice of God the whole worlde beside were drowned Wherefore how fewe soeuer we be As the Papistes say we are not many so long as we obey the voice of God we doubt not but we shal be saued in the Arch. And the Papistes with all their vniuersality and multitude despising the lawe of God shall perishe with the wicked worlde 22 Tabernaculum altissimi THe old Tabernaecle was a figure of the true Church and we know that none shall dwell therein but such as be described in the Psal. 15. Therefore let the Papistes bragge as long as they list of the Tabernacle of the highest yet shall they not dwell there neither shall they rest in his holy hill because they be not indued with such vertues springing of true and a liuely faith As in that Psalme be set forth 23 Ager area Dei. THe church is the feelde and flower of God in his feelde he soweth none but good seede the chaffe shal be purged from his flower The Papistes are some of these tares whome the enuious man hath sowed while men were a sleepe and the chaffe which after it be purged from the corne together with the tares shal be burned in the vnquencheable fire 24 Mater fidelium IErusalem that is from aboue is free which is the mother of vs all which embrace Iesus Christ as our onely Redemer from the bondage and curse of the lawe As for that steppe mother of Rome which bringeth men into captiuitie through ceremonies and traditions of men Begetteth vnto bondage as Agar did and is become the mother not of the faithfull but of abhominable fornication Apocalip 17. 25 Nutrix Christianorum THe church of Christ is the Nurse of ChristiaÌ„s which bringeth them vp and feedeth them first with milke and afterwarde with stronger meates according as they are able to receue it 1. Cor. 3. Heb. 6. But Rome which feedeth her babes with poyson of mans traditions in steede of the milke of God his word will rather see them famish than they shoulde taste of God his worde maye well be a nurse of Antichristians but neuer did good vnto Christians 26 Ecclesia orthodoxa TRue opinions are confirmed out of the worde of trueth wherefore our church which holdeth no doctrine but such as is tried by the worde of truth most truly may be called the true beleuing church Contrarywise the Popish church which so manifestly dissenteth from the worde of trueth that she dare not be iudged thereby but most blasphemously submitteth the same to her corrupt and false iudgement maye iustly be called a false beleeuing church 27 Vna Sancta Catholica 28 Apostolica THis hath bene often proued before And namely in the first second third and fourth demandes of this last Article 29 Vxor de latere Christi sicut Eua de latere Adam AS S. Augustine sayeth The church of Christ is taken out of his side as Eue was out of Adams side which so long as she obeyeth the voice of her â—usbande is not deceiued by the serpeÌ„t But if she be absent from him that she be not instructed by him she is deceiued by heretikes Augusti De Genes contra Manichaeos libro 2. cap. 24. 26. by which place of Augustine it is proued that the Church may erre if she be not ruled by the worde of God. 30 Domus Pacis THe church may be called the house of Peace because there is in it Peace and agreement in the cheefest Articles of the Faith or because in it is taught vs the
the cause would driue me vnto I did learne of auncient Irenaeus that such doctrine â—nd mysteries may be safely had and without all feare of errour taught by holy Priestes and Bishops Qui cum episcopatus successione charisma veritatis certum sâ—cundum placitum patâ—is accepeâ—unt VVho haue receaued with thâ—ir ordinary succession in their pastorall seat the gracious gift of vnderstanding the truth And these are they sayth he in the same place which may without all daunger to them selues and their hearers expound vnto vs the holy Scriptures Other men doubtles which this miserable age of ours seeth not that measureth all thinges by a fond flourish of learning whereof â—et there was neuer lesse store can not nor must not be so bold though their giftes were many moe study muâ—h longer then mine And to confesse the truth in deede I was somwhat loth such was my foolish feare then to fall in hand with that matter which being well and to the bottom ripped I perceaued of all other causes in the world most to touch the very sore of heresie and therefore might to me procure the hatred of such whose loue otherwise I could be content either to keepe or winne Besides that I saw the contention of the contrary part seking to make some answere to such thinges as might in this cause most greeue their mindes or marre their matter shoulde driue me from that course of study which otherwise in quietnesse I would most gladly keepe to serue truth and defende my cause which once of freedom and good will taken in hand must afterward of duety and necessitie be vpholden Notwithstanding all these thinges good reader which might most iustly hold me back yet now my friendes request the case and condition of this present time and my duety towards my mother the Church may of good reason and must of necessitie chaunge my former intent remoue my priuate study to the benefite of the common cause Therfore being at length by iust occasion wholy minded to serue as well as I could that way I thought good these late months to make a more full declaration of that thing which at my sayde friendes request I had so briefly touched before That as then when he first had it of me it onely serued him for his owne contentation the pleasuring of his singular and secret friendes and the helpe of some simple whome he knew deceyued by ouer light looking on so graue matters so nowe good Christian reader I trust it may helpe in common not onely such as haue been caried a way by the guile of heresie but other that are much subiect to the daungerous flattery of this present time with whome pleasure euer ioyned to the protestantes doctrine often more preuaileth then the preachers persuasion Be bolde to charge any of our aduersaries make he neuer so great accompt of him selfe with the force of trueth heere expresly proued both by argument and authoritie if it holde him not he shall I am sure brast out with impudencie and not lose him selfe by reason iust dealing or honestie And if it be proued to touch with safetie the poison it selfe let no man doubt to vse it for a preseruatiue in this common infection of our time and countrie For it were no reason any man shoulde practise with the poore people priuyly in such thinges as he were not hable to mainteine before their pilloures and preachers openly And for that hatered which I may procure to my selfe by mine owne trauell it shall not much moue me for I shall either be partaker thereof as a common praise in these euill dayes to most good men or els if I be not worthy so much I will learne to beare it as some parte of punishment satisfaction for my sinnes I may not bye frendship with flatterie nor mannes loue with forsaking Gods trueth Of such thinges then I will not make much reckening but my principall care is that in writing or wading in so deepe matters I keepe the streight line of the Churches truth which in the exceding rashnesse of these darke dayes a man may quickely lose And therefore to make sure I humbly submit my selfe to the iudgement of such our maisters in faith and religion as by Gods calling are made the lawefull Pastors of our soules Of whome I had rather learne my selfe then teach other if either they had occasion and opportunitie to speake or I might of reason and duetie in these miserable times holde my peace Farewell gentle Reader and if I pleasure thee by my paines let me for Christes sake be partaker of thy prayers At Antwerp the Second of May. 1565. 3 WHether this occasion of your writing were true or only pretendid it is all one to our purpose But where you commende your freinde for that he learned to beleeue first and sought to vnderstand afterwarde which you take to be the natural order of a Christian schoole if you had shewed where you learned that methode his coÌ„mendation should haue been the greater and your iudgement the weightier For we learne by Saint Paule a contrary order namely first to heare the worde of God preached and expounded and then to beleeue it Rom. 10. For God by the riches of his grace hath abounded towardes vs in all wisedome and vnderstanding and hath opened vnto vs the mysterie of his will according to his good pleasure so that after we hearde the worde of trueth the Gospell of our saluation we haue thereby beleeued and so are sealed with the holy Spirite of promise laboring and praying that those which haue receaued the first grace of knowledge and vnderstanding may daily more and more increase in the same that they may be full filled with knowledge of Gods will in all wisedom spirituall vnderstanding Col. 1. And as for that blinde faith which must be thrust vppon mens consciences to be accepted before they see what grounde it hath we leaue it as meete for sect masters and heretikes and in no wise to be admitted by the Disciples of Christ who calleth all men to heare him and vnderstand him Matt. 15. Mar. 7. But faith say you in most matters must direct reason But I say reason in all matters must be subiect to faith For the naturall man with all his reason neither doth nor can perceaue the things of the spirite of God for the eye hath not seene nor the eare hath hearde neither haue entred into the heart of man the thinges that God hath prepared for them that loue him but God hath reueiled them to vs by his spirite 1. Corinth 2. And this is the thing that deceiueth you Maister Allen which more like a maister of prophane artes then a good student of holy Diuinitie can put no difference betwene carnall reason and spirituall vnderstanding For that knowledge and vnderstanding of Gods holy mysteries conteined in his word whereuppon our faith is grounded we haue not by light of naturall reason but by reuelation and
opening of Gods spirite But omitting this matter as touched by the way with two other pages following as containing nothing materiall to be aunswered I will come to the third leafe and second face where you promise an orderly proceeding in the matter you take in hand Which order of yours if you had not professed your selfe to obserue men might haue taken your hochpot to be such as your matter would bring forth that the treaty of Purgatory should be like the troublesome state therof but when you are not content to haue your methode counted to be of the nature of your matter but you will needes make boast of an orderly proceeding in so disordered a cause you must not be offended if your confusion in steade of order be sometime discouered Howbeit the want of order were a small fault if the matter were pregnant and certaine But what assurance shall other men haue of your doctrine when you your selfe affirme and haue learned as you say out of Irenaeus that such doctrine and mysteries may not be safely had at such a mans hand as you are but onely of holy Priestes and Byshops which with the succession of their office haue receiued a sure and certaine gift of truth according to the pleasure of their father It is the duety not onely of a good teacher but euen of a good Christian to say with the Psalmist I haue beleued and therefore I haue spoken If you beleue not these matters why haue you vttered them â–ª â—f you beleue them then be bold to shew vs your grounds out of the word of god For other perswasion then â—uch as is grounded vppon the hearing of Gods worde will neuer of Christians be counted for true beliefe so long as the 10. chapter to the Romanes remaineth in the Canon of the Bible But I knowe your meaning you affect the prayse of humilitie and modestie For wauering and vncertaintie in faith among Papistes is counted modâ—stie but this modesty is soone forgotten and this boldnesse nowe vtterly refused in the next leafe â—ollowing is not onely resumed by your selfe but also enioyned to others Be bolde blush not you might say though you should for shame to charge any of our aduersaâ—â—es c. A sodaine chaunge he that euen now neither can nor must be bolde although he hâ—d many more giftes then he hath and studied much longer then he hath done to expounde the holy Scripture without daunger to him selfe and his hearers because he hath not the certaine gifte of truth with ordinary succession by and by is growne to such a full perswasion of truth expressely proued by argument and authoâ—itie that men must be bold vppon his warrant to charge all his aduersaries either to be helde thereby or else with no honesty to escape his handes A man would maruaile to beholde this speedy alteration if he did not vnderstand the true difference betwene the certaine faith of a Christian and the obstinate blindenesse of an hereticke For when he compareth his opinion with the authority of Gods word where vpon true faith is builded he will not he can not he must not be bolde to vnderstand the scriptures he wanteth that certaine gifte of truth but when he remembreth that he can not deceiue others nor retaine the glory of constancy him selfe by doubtfulnesse and vncertainty then he â—aunteth braggeth of the force of his feeble arguments and vnsufficient auâ—horitie But concerning the place of Irenaeus by him alleged I must admonish the reader that his meaning was not that euery one that succedeth in a Byshoppes seate hath as necessarily annexed to his see that certaine gifte of veritie wherby he may expound the Scripture without error as maister Allen perhaps woulde insinuate But that some in the first age of the Church as they succeded the holy Byshoppes and elders that were ordained by the Apostles in place and office so also it pleased God their father that they shoulde succede in the like gifts and namely in that excellent gifte of interpretation of the Scriptures which was but extraordinarie and for a season For if it had been an ordinarie thing that euery Byshop by succession shoulde receiue that gifte there shoulde neuer haue been any heretike Byshops as there haue been many and againe that prerogatiue which Maister Allen him selfe will affirme to be peculiar to the Byshop of Rome shoulde be made common to euery other blinde Byshop where so eâ—er he sat which were a great absurditie in popery it selfe And as for the gift of the interpretation of scriptures God gâ—ueth it still though not in such full measure nor coÌ„monly without ordinary meanes allowed in the Scripture as reading comparing praying neuer the lesse with as full persuasion in matters concerning Gods honour our saluation by his holy Spirite as euer he did bestowe the same in any age And as for the helpes of learning requisite for the same as knowledge of the tongues and rationall sciences there was neuer greater stoâ—e in the church of Christ son Christ his time ye if we shall iudge by the writings and stories of all ages vnlesse we will be as impudent as maister Allen we must say there was neuer so great store of learning in any age as Gods holy name be praised there is now in these our dayes in menne professing Christian religion with what conscience can maister Allen affirme that there was neuer lesse store of learning then in this age when euen in remembraunce of men that are aliue there was a great deale lesse store then is nowe but in their fathers and grandfathers time there was almost nothing but rudenesse and barbarousnesse euen with the same conscience that soone after he affirmeth that pleasure is euer ioyned to the Protestants doctrine which more preuaileth then the preachers perswasion If you had meant Master Allen that peace of God which passeth all vnderstanding which they tast of that by the Protestants doctrine haue learned that they are iustified by faith Phil. 4. Rom. 5. and to that perpetual ioy in the holy Ghost whereunto we are exhorted by the Apostle Phil. 4. wherein the kingdom of God consisteth Rom. 14. we willingly would haue consented that such pleasure is alwayes ioyned to the Protestants doctrine but seeing it is more like you speake of carnall pleasures I must say thus much to confound your blasphemous tongue and to dashe out your slaunderous writing let the worlde witnesse that heareth our doctrine and God iudge that seeth our hearts whether carnall pleasures be ioyned to our teaching which daily preach with all vehemency and earnestnes vnfained repentaunce mortification deniall of our selues bearing of the crosse hatred of this world amendment of life holines and righteousnes and that vnder paine of euerlasting damnation And whether pleasure more then the godly perswasion of the preachers preuaileth to winne professors of our doctrine if it be not so clearly seene in this Church of England by the meanes of the great peace
Gods iustice howe can the same suffering be mitigated by masses pardons merites c. or cleane taken away by a pardon of Iubely à poena culpa Againe howe can the merites of an other abate his punishment which must suffer him selfe to aunswere Gods iustice If the iustice of God be not aunswered by the offering of Christ how is it aunswered when any mans suffering is by any of your meanes mollified or taken away But it sufficeth you that your forefathers more then a thousand yeares agoe called that place of sufferance purgatory But I pray you what is it called in the Scripture either of the olde testament or the newe or in the first and second hundreth yeares after Christ Diuerse errours be older then a thousand yeares but age can neuer make falshoode to be truth and therefore I waye not your proude bragges worth a strawe I am one of the least of Gods ministers and not worthy in respect of my greatest infirmities of the lowest place in his Church yet by his grace and the authoritie of his holy word I shall be able to ouerthrowe both this and all other babylonicall bulwarkes that are cast vp by Sathan and all his instruments For the defence of popish heresie against the tâ—uth of god And neither the myst of mens inuentions which you call the light of apostolike tradition shall be able to darken the truth of the Gospell nor the errours of mortall men which you terme the force of Gods trueth shall beare downe thauthoritie of Gods holy spirite And as for the torment of conscience by inward acknowedlging of the truth openly withstanded it is not like you could so liuely describe it if you had not experience of it in your selfe Our consciences most humble and harty thankes we yeald to the infinite mercy of God are washed white and purged from all blacknes by the precious bloud of Christ which is the propitiation for our sinnes that cleaue vnto him by true liuely faith and open iudgement shall one day shew that all obstinate Papistes which seeke to establish their owne iustice shal be voyde of the iustice of God while they wrastle to come out of purgatory they take the high way to fall headlong into hell God lighten the eyes of them that are blinde of simplicitie and confound all such as sinne of malicious wickednes The excuse of your sharpe speach perhaps might seeme probable if you did not vse intollerable sclaundering and rayling which neither by zeale of trueth nor example of godly fathers can well be shadowed much lesse warranted THAT OFTEN AFTER OVR SINNES BEFOR GIVEN BY THE sacrament of penaunce there remaineth some due of temporall punishment for the satisfying of Gods iustice some recompence of the offences past CAP. I. 1 AS it is most true and the very grounde of all Christian comfort that Christes death hath payed duely and sufficiently for the sinnes of all the world by that aboundant price of redemption payed vppon the Crosse So it is of like credit to all faithfull that no man was euer partaker of this singular benefite but in the knotte and vnitie of his body misticall which is the Church To the members whereof the streames of his holy bloud and beames of his grace for the remission of sinne sanctification be orderly through the blessed Sacraments as condethes of Gods mercy conueyde All which Sacraments though they be instituted and vsed as meanes to deriue Christes benefites and bestow his grace of redemption vppon the worthy receiuers yet like effect or force is not by the meaning of their first author and institutor emploied vpon all receiuers nor giuen to all the Sacraments That may well appeare if we marke the exceding aboundant mercy that is powred vpon al men at their first incorporation and entraunce into the houshold of the faithfull by Baptisme In which Sacrament the merites of our masters death be so fully and largely caried downe for the remission of sinne that were the life before neuer so loden with most horrible offences that in this misery man may commit yet the offender is not onely pardoned of the same but also perfectly acquieted for euer of all paine or punishment other then the common miseries of mankind which his proper offences before committed by any meanes might deserue And no lesse free nowe then the childe after baptisme which onely originall sinne brought thither So sayth S. Ambrose by these wordes Gratia Dei in Baptismate non quaerit gemitum aut planctum aut opus aliquod nisi solum ex corde professionem The grace of God in Baptisme requireth neither sorow nor mourning nor any other worke but onely an hearty profession of thy faith VVhereby he meaneth that after our sinnes be once thus freely wiped away in our first regeneration there is no charge of punishment or penaunce for farther reliefe of the same But now a man that is so freely discharged of all euill life and sinne committed before he came into the family if he fall into relapse defile the temple of God then as Gods mercy alwaies passeth manns malice euen in this case also he hath ordayned meanes to repaire mans fall againe That is by the Sacrament of penaunce which therefore S. Hierome termeth the second table or refuge after shipwracke as a meanes that may bring man to the porte of saluation though lightly not without present dammage and daunger In which blessed Sacrament though Gods grace haue mighty force for mans recouery and worketh aboundantly both remission of sinnes and the discharge of eternall punishment due by iust iudgement to the offender yet Christ him selfe the author of this Sacrament as the rest meant not to communicate such efficacie or force to this as to baptisme for the vtter acquieting of all paine by sinnefull life deserued For as in Baptisme where man is perfectly renewed it was semely to set thoffender at his first entraunce on cleare ground and make him free for all thinges done abrode so it excedingly setteth forth Gods iustice and nothing impareth his mercy to vse as in all common welthes by nature and Gods prescription is practised with grace discipline with iustice clemency with fauour correction and with loue due chastisement of such sinnes as haue by the houshold children bene committed Nowe therefore if after thy free admission to this family of Christ thou doe greeuously offend remission may then be had againe but not commonly without sharpe discipline seeing the father of this our holy houshold punisheth where he loueth and chastiseth euery childe whom he receiueth VVhose iustice in punishment of sinne not onely the wicked but also the good must much feare VVhereof S. Augustine warneth vs thus Deus sayth he nec iusto parcit nec iniusto illum flagellando vt filium istum puniendo vt impium God spareth neither the iust nor vniust chastising th one as his childe punishing the other as a wicked
stand with trueth and be not repugnaunt to good life and maners And he hedgeth the diuersity of mens wittes in the exposition of scripture with in the double knot of loue which is towards God and our brother Who so euer sayth he taketh him selfe to vnderstand scripture or any parte thereof and in that meaning edifieth nothing at all the double loue of God and our neighbour he misseth the true meaning thereof But who so euer can finde out such a sense that may be commodious to the increase of charitie although it were not directly intended by the writer yet he is not harmefully deceiued nor founde a lyar therein so sayth he Now as for our matter I am well assured there dare no man though he were destitute of Gods grace yet not for shame of him selfe affirme that the doctrine of purgatory is hourtfull to vertuous life the only miscredit whereof hath vtterly banished all good Christian condicions or iniurious to the faith of Gods Church which is not only agreable but principally intended by the plaine letter of Gods worde and consonant to all other meanings that may be gathered by any such scripture as we haue alleaged there for and to be short receiued of so many fathers so wise and so well learned as we haue named for that purpose as a trueth most reasonable most naturall and most agreable to Gods iustice VVell then the misbeleuers can haue no shifte nor escape by the chalenge of Gods word or doctures or diuersity of sensies here is no holde for errour all I trust be safe and sure on euery side CAP. XI 1 YOu shoulde breake your olde wonte if you did not in this chapter ouerthrow something that you haue builded in that which went next going before He hath labored all this while to proue that purgatory hath grounde in the Scriptures now he cōfesseth franckely that there hath bene no text of scripture by him alleaged to proue it but it may haue an other meaninge and is sometime other wise construed of the fathers them selues I will aske no more to proue that purgatory hath no grounde in the worde of God which is not an ambiguous oracle that may be drawen euery way like a leaden rule hath but one true sence or meaning which is the right meaning of the holy Ghost For although diuerse men may geue diuerse interpretations of some obscure and harde place which all conteine no impiety or falshode yet the spirite of God meaneth but one thing and not what euery mans wit and iudgement will take it to be True it is that so longe as the proportion of faith is kept the Church beareth with them that geue wronge interpretations but the spirite of God which is in his Church alloweth not wronge interpretations for right And where as M. Allen alloweth all the interpretatiōs that the fathers haue made of the text by him alleaged as true so long as they affirmed no error he may by the same reason affirme that contradictories are true as in that saying of him that shall not come out vntill he haue payed the vttermost farthing some haue expounded that he shal be alwayes punished some that he shall not be alwayes punished One sayth he shal neuer be released an other saith he shall be released at length how is it possible that both these interpretations can be true and yet both these interpretations are founde in some writers But his suerest shifte is that the doctrine of purgatory was a knowen trueth in all ages But this is the whole matter in controuersie For how can it be taken for a knowen trueth in all ages which hath none so suer grounde in any text of scripture that cā be wrested for it but the same text may haue an other and that a true interpretation But of the antiquity of that error we shall haue better occasion hereafter to discusse in the second booke where this matter is of purpose intreated of In the meane time we wil take that which is here graunted so liberaly that there is no text of scripture alleaged for purgatory but it may be otherwise truely interpreted and not of purgatory and that the fathers haue so done by M. Allens owne confession 2 Their extreme and onely refuge is that the paine of Christes passion and his sufficient payment for our sinnes standeth not with our satisfaction or penaunce in this life nor with paine or purgatory in the next O Lorde how farre may mans malice reach that not contented to abuse their reason and the word of God in persuasion of errour but are bolde to referre Christes blessed death also to cloke together with falsehood wanton and licentious liuing Many vertuous persons haue bene prouoked by the meditation of our Sauiours sorowes to leaue the stattering welth of this worlde and to charge them selues with perpetuall vexation of body but that any did euer so rest vpon Christes passion that in respect thereof they might passe their dayes in idle welth of lust and liberty that was I trow vnhearde of before this sinnefull sect These fellowes argue thus Christ hath paide the full price of our sinnes ergo we must do no penaunce nor suffer any paine for them But S. Paule thus Christ by paine and passiō is entred into the glory of his kingdome ergo if we looke to be his fellow heires or partakers of his glory we must suffer affliction with him and ioyne with him in paines and passion S. Peter also thus Christ hath suffered leauing you an example that ye should follow his steppes therefore all his blessed life passed in paine must be a perpetuall sturring vp of toleration gladde suffering for his name againe Iohn our maisters messenger prepared the way of Christes death and doctrine by worthy fructes of penaunce and that was the beginning of Christes owne preaching therfore I dare be bolde to say these thinges are not abrogated by the teaching of the Gospel nor voide by Christs passion which onely maketh our workes and merites to be of that value and acceptation that all Catholike men counte them of which els to the satisfying for sinne shoulde be nothing auaileable nor to the atteining of heauen any thing profitable But it is foly to make ouer many wordes in a case so plaine seeing the example of both God and good mens dealing abundantly proueth mans punishment either temporall or eternall to stande well with the excellent value of our Sauiours death For if paine for sinne were iniurious to Christes death then the holy prophet Dauid that liued long in greuous penaunce were iniurious to his Lordes death then the Church were iniurious to her owne spouse his death that chargeth all offenders with penaunce then God him selfe were iniurious to his owne sonnes death that sharply punisheth sinne forgeuen then Christ him selfe were iniurious to his owne death that both by his example and holy preaching did euer commend sharpe penaunce and paine These
testifieth that the Gospell was preached in this lande in the reigne of Tyberius the Emperour proue vnto vs that Paule or Simon or Thaddeus or Ioseph or who so euer first preached the Gospell in this Ilande tought prayers or sacrifices for the deade Proue it I saye and the daye is yours for euer if you proue it not as neither you nor the deuill for you is able to doe it the worlde may see your swelling bragges to be nothing but blowen bladders or bubles in which there is nothing but ayre as your wordes are nothing but winde yet are you not ashamed to name Gildas who as about the first conuersiō of the Britaynes to the faith he hath no worde of any such matters so where he complayneth of there ruyne and decaye he accuseth the priests of his time for sieldome sacrificing but of sacrificing for the deade he speaketh not although the error of praying for the deade were receiued in other places and whether this countrye were free from it I am not able to saye nor you to proue that it was infected with it And therefore hauing nothing to shew for six hundreth yeare◠almost in which this lande was neuer voyde of Christians you come in at last with the peruersion of the Saxons by Augustine that prowde cruell and vnlearned monke of whose pryde and cruelty our stories doe testifie at large his ignorance and vnskilfulnesse is bewrayed by him selfe in his writinges to Pope Gregory I force litle what miracles he wrought to cōfirme his errors neither doe I waye worth a flye that longe tale you tell out of Beda of him that had his cheines fallen o◠in Masse time That credulous and superstitious age had many such fayned miracles 500 such tales are toulde in vitas patrum serm discipuli legenda aurea the festiuall c. But make you no more accompt of Beda his graue authority then of those fayned fables suerly I make this accompt of Beda that if he had reported the matter of his owne knowledge I woulde haue credited the facte done and yet tending to the maintenaunce of false doctrine I would neuer the sooner haue bene moued from the trueth of Gods worde But when he reported it onely of heare saye and that not of the parties them selues that might haue bene witnesses but of them that hearde this one man tell it by him selfe it caryeth small credit with it I beleue that such a tale was tolde to Beda but what if they added some what to it that tolde him and what if he that tolde them lyed if Beda had not bene ouer light of credit him selfe he shoulde not haue put it in writing before he had perfect intelligence not only of the party him selfe but also of that Londiner and gentleman and those that kept him in prison But how so euer the matter weare true or false it is no proofe nor preiudice against the trueth of God vttered in the holy scriptures Let Augustine speake for vs in his booke ae vnitate ecclesiae against the Donatistes which boasted of miracles as the Papistes doe but Augustine will not allow them for sufficient proues with out the authoritie of the scriptures non dicat verum est quia ego hoc dico aut quia hoc dixit ille collega meus aut illi collegae mei aut illi episcopi vel clerici vel laici nostri aut ideo verum est quia illa illa ▪ mirabilia fecit Donatus vel Potius vel quilibet alius aut quia homines ad memorias mortuorum nostrorum orant exaudiuntur aut quia illa illa ibi contingunt aut quia ille frater noster aut illa soror nostra tale visum vigilans vidit vel tale visum dormiens somniauit c. Sed vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarum scripturarum canonicis libris oftendant c Let him not saye it is therefore true because I say it or such a one my companion sayed it or those my companions or those our byshoppes or clerkes or laye men or it is therefore true because Donatus or Pontius or any other did these or those miracles or because men praye at our dead mens memories and are harde or because these or these thinges doe happen there or because this our brother or that our sister sawe such a vision waking or dreamed such a vision sleeping c. but whether they holde the Church or no let them shewe none otherwise but by the canonicall bookes of the holy Scriptures This place M. Allen if it might take place with you might serue to cut of all controuersies not onely of purgatory but of the Church it selfe and what so euer is in question betwene vs But you are wise enough you will neuer venture your cause vppon that triall 2 VVe must here stay a litle and ponder in our mindes how our forefathers and people of our owne lande were taught in this article when they were first deliuered out of Sathans bondage and conuerted to the fellowship of Christes Church and let vs nothing doubt but that which our owne Apostles both by worde and worke by miracle and by martyrdome first proued vnto vs is the very true and unfallible faith of our Christianitie For if that were not true which at our first conuersion was preached vnto vs then we receiued not the faith but falsehoode at their handes then the histories doe make a lowde lye in testifying we were turned to the Christian faith both at that time and by such men then it were no conuersion from heathen Idolatrie to the worship of Christ but it were a chaunge from one superstition to an other and this latter so much worse then the other because vnder the name of Christ there were practise perpetuall of execrable sacrilege in instituting of a sacrifice to the defasing of our redemption in adoring bare breade as the hoste of our saluation in offering it vp to God for the sinnes both of the quicke and deade in practise of vnprofitable prayers for the soules deceased with the like false worship of God in all pointes Then their preaching was highly to Gods dishonour pernicious to the people and damnable to them selues Then haue all that euer ranne the rase of that faith and doctrine till this daye which they taught perished with them then are they founde false witnesses whome we haue accompted as our vndoubted true and lawfull pastors then God hath purposely deceiued vs with fayned miracles full many with numbers of vaine visions then all our labour is lost till this day The holynesse of so many good princies and priestes is praised in vaine the bloude of Martyrs shed in vaine the exercise of all sacraments in vaine and because all deuotion consisted in our fathers dayes in the earnest zele of so false a religion as they thinke this to be then the more deuotion the farther from Christ the lesse religion more neere to saluation then happy was he
sorte so euer they be Take awaye the prayers and practise for the deade either all those monuments must fall or else they must stand against the first founders will and meaning Looke in the statutes of all noble fouÌ„dations and of all charitable workes euer sith the first day of our happy calling to Christes faith whether they doe not expresly testifie that their worke of almes and deuotion was for this one especiall respect to be prayd and song for as they call it after their deathes Looke whether your Vniuersities protest not this fayth by many a solemne oth both priuatly and openly Looke whether all preachers that euer tooke degree in the Vniuersitie before these yeares are not bound by the holy Euangelistes to pray for certayne noble Princes and Prelates of this Realme in euery of their sermons at Paules or other places of name And so often as these preachers doe omitte it so often are they periured so often as they eyther eate or drinke of their benefactors cost so often beare they testimony of their owne damnation 4 This and almost all the rest to the ende of the chapter might be as wel the expostulation of the heathen men with the Apostles or them that first preached the faith of christ Were there not as goodly building of temples colledges and vniuersities among the heathen as are among vs at this daye but all they were builded and indowed by men of a contrary religion doth it thereâ—ore follow that their religion was good which erected such noble monuments both of their common welth and of their religion Although it is most false that Allen affirmeth that this doctrine founded all byshopprickes builded all Churches c. but admit it were so what argument were that to proue that his religion were true Our stories testifie that at the first conuersion of this lande to Christianity in the time of Lucius that arch flamines of the Paganes were conuerted to archbyshopprickes And the Pagane flamines were conuerted to Bishopprickes and so the temples of the Paganes were conuerted into the Churches of the Christians Gregory also instructeth Augustine how he should conuerte the temples of the Idolatrous Saxons vnto the vse of the Christian Churches If these stories be true then is it both false that M. Allen sayth that his doctrine of Purgatory founded all Bishopprickes Churches c. and also that all Bishopprickes Churches colledges c. must remaine in the religion of them by whome they were first founded he procedeth further to charge all our superintendents of periury for not keeping their othe made in the vniuersity to praye for the deade Let them that haue made such othe aunswere for them selues I am sure he lyeth of many and of the most of them for that othe was onely in Oxeford for any thing that I haue heard which vniuersity hath yeilded fewe to that place as yet But it is certaine that your popish Bishoppes of Queene Maries time almost euery one and the chiefest Bonner Gardyner Heth Hopton Therlebye c. were manifestly periured against that othe which they tooke in K. Henry K. Edwarde his daies to maintaine the kinges supremacie against the vsurped power of the Pope This all the world knoweth and therefore ye may be ashamed to accuse our superintendents of periurye of whome I am sure you can name but a fewe that euer tooke the oth 5 Aunswere me but one question I aske you VVhether the first authors of such benefites as you enioye in the Church at this daye either of bishoppricke or colledge or any other spirituall liuely hoode say your mindes vnfeinedly whether they euer meÌ„t that such men of such a religion of such life of such doctrine should enioy that almes which they especially ordeined for other men and for contrary purpose say trueth and shame the deuill thought they euer to make roume in Collegies for your wiues meÌ„t they euer to mainteine preachinge against the Masse against prayers for their owne soules when they purposely vpon that grounde beganne so godly a worke if they in deede neuer ment it as I knowe they did not and as your owne consciencies beare witnesse with them and against your selues that they did not how can you then for feare of Gods high displeasure against their owne willes vsurpe those commodities which they neuer ment to such as you be A lasse good men they thought to make freindes of wicked Mammon and full dearly with both landes and goods haue they procured enemies to their owne soules But if there be any sense in those good fathers and founders as there is and if they be in heauen as their good deseruing I trust hath brought them then surely they accuse you most iustly of wicked vniustice before the face of God for deluding the people for breaking their willes for usurping their commodities against their professed mindes and meaninges Or if they be in hell which God forfende and yet you must needes so suppose for raysing the monuments of such superstition then blotte out their memorie and names that haue not onely in their life mainteined horrible abusies but also after their death haue lefte such open steppes of superstition to all posteritie 5 The same question you maye demaunde of the fathers of the primitiue Church and in deede the same question or the like was demaunded of them and it is not so harde to answere as you imagine Many of these Churches and colledges yea the most notable cathedrall Churches in England were builded for preachers of the Gospell and there wiues to dwell in Our stories are plentifull in that point that they were the first inhabiters of them and afterwarde as Idolatrie and superstition preuailed were with all violence and iniury expelled out of them and monkes placed in their steede If you be so skilfull in antiquity as you make your selfe you can not be ignorant of this which is testified by Ranulphus Castrensis Mathaeus VVestmonasteriensis the storie of Peterburghe and many other Now whether any ment to maintaine preaching against Masse or prayers for their owne soules as we knowe not whether they did or no so we compt it not materiall Such liuinges as are appointed by the prince and the lawe for maintenaunce of them that preach the Gospell we maye enioye with a good conscience without regarde of their meaning that first builded the houses or possessed the landes For we must not seeke to learne our faith and religion out of their meanings and intentes but out of the worde of god And whether the builders of such places be saued or damned it perteineth not to vs to iudge nor to enquire Such things as were well done of them we woulde commend if they were heathen men but if any thing were euill in them we may not allowe it though they were neuer so good 6 Suppose I pray you which yet I woulde be lothe shoulde come to proofe or passe but suppose for all that that with the
God they are now bestowed according to their founders intent For they that serue the aultar of God must needes pull downe the aultars of idolls And if any portions that were taken from the world be gone to the worldely agayne I meane the Abbies and their landes it is the iust plague of God vpon them that vnder hypocrisie of forsaking the world liued not like men of the world but like deuills of hell And whereas you aske agayne if any man would take from his owne wife children to bestow vppon Priestes wiues and children I haue aunswered before that the chiefe collegiat Churches in England were first inhabited of married Priestes which taught sounder doctrine and liued a more chast life then the Epicureous Monkes that succeeded them I might aske of you M. Allen if they meant not to mainteyne Priestes wiues their children whether they ment rather to mainteyne Priestes whores their bastardes Byshops brothells and their minions Sodom and Gomor of Monkes Fryers it was neither Cutberd VVilliam nor VVilfryde wether they were holy or superstitious but the prouidence of God that appointed such portion as the Church now enioyeth if the same by any meanes should be taken from them yet God hath appointed that they which preach the Gospell shall liue of the Gospell We are not so carefull of worldly liuelihood as you knowing your owne disease imagine that we should be that we would come into your filthy Synagoge to winne Cardinalls hatts or Archbishops palls some of vs if they had sought worldly promotion by abusing their learning wittes to the maintenaūce of your horrible heresies needed not to haue come frō you to seke preferment among the Protestants which you know is neither so great nor so easy to come by as among the Papists 8 But let them on thinke on these matters them selues I will turne againe to my purpose although I can not goe farre from my matter so longe as I am in the beholdinge of that faith which our first preachers brought vnto vs at our first conuersion or in any steppe of the antiquitie which we well perceiue to be the fructe only of that doctrine which we haue declared and an euident testimony of so vndoubted a trueth I thinke there is no way so certaine for the contentation of a mans selfe in this time of doubting and diuersitie in doctrine as in all matters to haue an eye towards the faith which we receiued when we were first conuerted And for that point I woulde wishe that S. Bedes history were familiar vnto all men that hath vnderstanding of the Latine tongue and to all other if it were possible for there shall they plainely see the first beginning the increase the continuance the practise the workes proceding out of the catholike faith feare not that is the trueth for that was the first and that was grounded by Gods worde and openly confirmed by miracle And that point must be considered not onely for our owne countrie but for all others that be or hath bene Christianed For into the selfe same faith were they first ingraffed also as by the peculiar practising of euery good man towardes his freinde and louer I haue already declared and nowe for the generall vsage of Gods Church the reader shall at large perceiue that nothing may wante to our cause whereby any trueth or light may be had 8 The conclusion of your chapter is a recourse to the beginning you thinke it is the suerest way to looke to that faith in all poyntes which this land first receiued If men should follow your counsell as in some things they should follow your faith which you now teach so in many poynts namely in that which you coūt the chiefe the reall presence of the naturall body of Christ they should go as farre from that you teach nowe as you would haue them come neare some things that were receiued thē And wheras you wish that Bedes history for that purpose were made familiar and some of you in deede haue taken paynes to translate it into English they that list not to be deceiued but to see into what faith all nations were conuerted that were turned by the Apostles they were better to consider the word of God and the history of the actes of the Apostles which if you durst abyde the tryall thereof you would exhort men to reade it at least wise that vnderstand Latine And if you were as zealous to sette forth the glory of God as you are earnest to mainteyne your owne traditions one or other of you which haue so longe founde faulte with our translations of the scripture woulde haue taken paines to translate them truely your selues as well as to translate Bedes booke or else to write such bables as you doe M. Allen and all the packe of you but all in vayn◠to shadowe the same whose right shoulde easely discusse all clowdes of darke doctrine and the more it is impugned the more bright shall it shewe and the more it is compared with darkenesse the more glorious it shall appeare That in euery ordre or vsage of celebration of the blessed sacrament and Sacrifice through out the Christian vvorlde since Christes time there hath bene a solemne supplication for the soules departed CAP. XI 1 THerefore let vs see howe the Church our mother of her piety vseth generall supplication in all seruice and solemne administration of the blessed sacramēt euen for those whose freindes haue forgotten them whose paines and trauell worldely men remembre not whose obscure condicion of life or pouerty woulde not suffer them to procure prayers by their knowen deedes of charity or almes Those men I say that doe lacke singular patronage of their freindes those hath she remembred in the rites of celebration vsed in all countries and in euery age sithens the Apostles dayes VVhich ordres of diuine seruice as they haue bene diuers in forme of wordes so they perfectly and wholy agreed in the substance of the sacrifice in praying and offering for the deade and supplication to sainctes as thou shalt straight wayes by their vsed ordre of wordes perceiue And as we goe forwarde herein euer let vs beare this rule in minde Quòd legem credendi lex statuit supplicandi in that sense speaketh S. Augustine often against heretikes the ordre of the Churches prayer is euer a plaine prescriptiō for all the faithfull what to beleue And the motherly affection that the Church beareth towardes all her children departed the saide doctor thus expresseth Non sunt praetermittendae supplicationes pro spiritibus mortuorum quas faciēdas pro omnibus in Christiana Catholica societate defunctis etiam tacitis nominibus quorumcūque sub generali cōmemoratione suscepit ecclesia vt quibus ad ista desunt parentes aut filij aut quicunque cognati vel amici ab vna eis exhibeantur pia matro cōmuni That is to say in our tongue Prayer must not be omitted for the
them your selues by the worde of God if you can And because you bring in a witty example of the common wealth I will aunswere you with the like Must the Magistrate either iustifie a theefes possession or else bring out the author where he had it Nay the theefe must bring out good proofe howe and by whom he came by such goods or else he is worthy to be serued like such a one So shall you not compell vs to tell you where when or how your heresie came in seeing it is sufficient for vs to shew that it came not from God nor by the Apostles nor through their doctrine But you doe well to conclude your reason in a syllogisme for then by the weakenes therof doth appeare your maior and minor be both false or at the least wise vnable to be proued of you For euery falshod hath not bene preached against at the first entry And how are you able to proue that purgatory and praying for the deade hath not bene preached against therfore your conclusion is as true and as certeyne as your premisses 3 But what needes all this a doe by their owne consent we shall driue this doctrine thirtene C. yeares vpward For so neare was Tertullian the Apostles dayes whome they confesse to haue practised that pointe of oblations for the deade And aske him where he had it for surely he inuented it not him selfe and he appointeth vs to his forefathers he nameth the Apostles for the authors and founders thereof as of many other thinges which he there reckeneth beside that were generally receiued and nowe be of heretikes likewise contemned VVe might yet steppe two C. yeare forward and find amongest the Apostles owne hearers the same doctrine both allowed and practised but that they will make exception of Dionysius and Clements workes such shiftes men must finde that will defend falshood Other I will name that be out of their exceptions VVho I thinke as well for their time knowledge and credit as their excellent vertue both can and will better tell the origine of that thinge the authors whereof were more nigh their time then ours If they woulde beleue S. Augustine as they often professe they will the matter might soone be ended but because I feare they stand so much in the corrupt conceite of their owne singularitie that they will be bold to reiect him I shall both lay him to their charges diuers other of greater antiquity that shal in expresse words affirme this vsage to come from the Apostles owne schoole That thereby they may either acknowledge their errors or else by such graue and vncorrupt iudges be condemned of willfull malitious blindnesse Thus S. Augustine writeth By the prayers of the holy Church the profitable sacrifice and almes bestowed for the soules departed out of all doubt the deceased be releued so that thereby almighty God may deale more mercifully with them thē their sinnes required For this practise deliuered vnto vs by our fathers is obserued vniuersally in Christes Church that for such as be departed in the communion of Christes body and bloud when at the sacrifice they be orderly named praiers shoulde be made and the same sacrifice mentioned to be done for them Here by his words thou vnderstands that the profit rising by the prayers or sacrifice to the departed hath no doubt in it They were through the world vsed not in the Church which they say hath bene for nyne C. yeares corrupted by supersticious ignorāce but in that Church which our aduersaires doe confesse maugre their heades to haue bene holy Catholike and Apostolike And it was not then begon but receiued by the prouision of Gods holy spirite of the Apostles whome he calleth the fathers of our faith 3 It is not denied but Tertuillan maketh mention of oblations for the dead but what kind of oblations it is not yet agreed vppon but such they were as were offered for mens birthes for they be ioyned togither Oblationes pro defunctis pro natalitijs annua die facimus we make oblations yearely for the day of mens death and the day of mens birth Now it is not like they offered prayers but thākes giuing for mens birth and euen so for their death For those places out of the other bookes where he speaketh of prayers for mens spirites I will consider afterward But in this booke de corona militis if oblations were prayers which he saith came from the Apostles he vtterly denyeth that they came from the Scriptures Therefore by Tertullians iudgement you doe abuse the Scriptures which woulde wrest them to proue out of them that which he sayth can not be proued by them But think you prayers for the dead came from the Apostles because he sayth so If you aunswere yea then must you likewise thinke that it is a wicked thing to fast on Sonday or to pray on your knees for in the same place he sayth that these opinions came also from the Apostles If you aunswere he sayth vntruely of these so doe we answere of the other Now come backe of your 13. hundreth yeares to seeke your apostolike tradition where you can finde it All is not Gospell that Tertullian hath sayd As for the works of Clemens and Dionysius you know full well they be not currant and therefore I maruell at your modestie that you will not now oppresse vs with them But it is because you haue store enough beside Howbeit if the most auncient fayle you it is not for the later sorte to helpe you If Tertullian had no ground of his saying when he affirmed that oblations for the deade came from the Apostles what ground can Augustine haue which was 200. yeares farther from the Apostles time then he But where you charge vs to confesse that the Church in Augustines time was holy Catholike and Apostolike you must witte if you will that although we may so confesse in respect of the substance of true doctrine which then was taught yet we doe not therby iustifie euery error superstition of that age But as Augustine sayth in his retractations lib. 2. cap. 18. he doth not meane that the Church is pure and perfect in this life with out all spot of blemish for euen the whole Church by reason of certeine ignorance and infirmities of her members hath neede to say euery day Forgiue vs our debtes 4 Athanasius me thinke the aduersary part should quake when I name him who was in his dayes terrible to the wicked odible to heretikes to all vertuous mē an especiall stay in the troblesome times of the Church whose grace was so great that he abbrigeth our whole faith into a briefe psalme called the Creede of Athanasius which is beleued of all Christian men no lesse then the holy Scriptures of the new Testament VVho as he right well knewe howe to defend him selfe against the wicked Arrians by the doctrine of the Catholike Church so he hath left vs in writing howe to
prayer for the dead came from the Apostles then Tertullian could proue that oblation for the deade came from them To detest fasting on Sunday and to pray kneeling with diuerse like superstitions Tertullian referreth to the Apostles as well as prayer for the deade deny one and doubt of all the rest And whereas M. Allen vpon contemplation of Chrysostome wordes falleth into a hidden agony cryeth alasse alasse if he would consider what the same man writeth vpon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great mone the losse is not so great Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij modici quideÌ„ attamen iuuemus eos Let vs procure them some helpe in deede but small helpe yet let vs helpe them Loe M. Allen your owne doctor confesseth it is but smal help that can be procured by prayers almes or remembraunce of them at the celebration of the holy misteries You will say that soone after he sayth the Apostles that instituted such memory knewe that much commodity came to the deade Then see how soone he forgetteth him selfe when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture Againe howe like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to helpe them that were Catechumeni which were learning their catechisme and dyed before they were baptised S. Ambrose you say cap. 9. of this booke did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and dyed before he was baptised Againe how agreeth this with your catholike doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your handes that Chrysostome denyeth them prayers and alloweth them almes for their helpe Catechumenos verò neque isto solatio dignamur sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio vno quodam dempto quo nam illo pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet vnde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet As for them that be Catechumeni we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort but they be destitute of all such aide except one What one is that we may giue some thinge for their sake to the poore whereof some refreshing shall come vnto them 6 But heare I pray you what notable wordes S. Damascen hath for the vtilitie and institution of these thinges The holy Apostles and disciples sayth he of our Sauiour Christ haue decried that in the dread soueraigne vndefiled and liuely Sacraments â—o he calleth the Masse there shoulde be kept a memoriall of those that haue taken their sleepe in faith the which ordinaunce vntill this day without gainsaying or controwling the Apostolike and Catholicke Church of God from one cost of the wide world to an other hath obserued and shall religiously keepe till the world haue an ende For doubtlesse these thinges that the Christian religion which is without error free from falshood hath so many ages and worldes continued vnuiolably not without vrgent cause those thinges I say are not vaine but profitable to man acceptable to God and very necessarye for our saluation Thus farre spake the doctor setting forth not onely his owne minde but the faith of a numbre of the peeres of Gods Church wherein to proue this doctrine to be catholike he fitly followeth the same way which Vincentius Lyrinensis gaue vs once for a rule to trye trueth by Prouing that it hath antiquitie as a thinge that came and hath continued euen from the beginning of the Christian religion declaring that it hath the consent of all nations because it is and hath bene practised through out all the costes and corners of the wyde worlde and last that it hath the approbation of the wisest and holyestmen that euer were in the Church of christ And more then all this that it shall so continue till the ende though it be for a time in some peculiar nations omitted because it is receiued into a parte of that worship of God which in the Church can not perishe 6 As for Damascene I know not wherefore his authoritie serueth but to fill vppe the number for neither is his credit nor his antiquitie comparable with the former we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis concerning antiquity so you can proue that it hath God to be the author the Prophets and Apostles As for witnesse vnder this antiquitie that which had an erroneous beginning shall haue a shamefull ending 7 And this prescription of trueth our aduersaires can not auoyde but with such vnseemely dealing as I trust they them selues now be ashamed of as all other reasonable men are For now let them come with brasen facies and blasphemous tounges and say that prayers for the deade be vnprofitable that the rites of the buriall be superstitious that to say the Masse and sacrifice to be propitiatory for the soules departed is iniurious to Christes death that the doctors praised the errours of the ignorant people of their dayes that they all erred and were deceiued that the Church of Christ hath bene ledde in darke ignorance till these our dayes let them bestowe these vaine presumptious wordes where they maye take place for nowe all wise men doe perceiue that all these haue their holy institution by Christ and his Apostles practised vniuersally in the primitiue Church embrased of all godly people and approued to be wholy consonant to Gods worde by the pillors of Christes Church who so consonantly agree together in this point as well for the practise and proofe as for the beginning therof that to dissent from them and trust in these reedes of our dayes were meere madnesse that are pufte to and fro with euery blast of doctrine that care not what they say so that they say not as other their forefathers sayed that had rather then they woulde geue ouer a singular opinion of their owne imagination refuse and denie the authoritie of so many notable wise auncient godly and well learned fathers whome we haue named Although we haue left out many of no worse iudgement plainely auouching these thinges to come into Christes Church and worship by the ordinaunce of his holy Apostles All which thinges if our aduersaries haue reade then they are in a most miserable and heuy taking that doe withstand an open knowen trueth and as I feare against their owne consciences too Or if they haue not reade these plaine assertions of all learned men sith Christes time then they are most impudent that so vainely bragge in a matter whereof they are not skillfull But I trust God will open their eyes and breake their prowde hartes to the obedience of his holy Church 7 Nay M. Allen your prescription is not yet proued that this geare came from Christ and the Apostles The oldest witnesse that you haue alledged fathered manifest fables vpon the institution of Christ the Apostles as you your selfe can not deny if you haue any conscience at all and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling bragges
of Christes institution the Apostles tradition the vniuersall practise of the primitiue Church And what so euer great wordes beside you haue streyned your lunges to pronounce you haue sayd nothing for oblation or prayer for the deade to be the institution of Christ and all this geere but I may say the same for the drinking of milke and hony after baptisme for not fasting on Sonday ▪ or prayer on knees c by like vniuersalitie antiquitie consent authoritie 8 If the authors be past hope yet their followers shall take goodly occasion to forsake such wicked maisters and be ashamed of all their vndecent dealyng if they note and consider with me that the first preachers of this peruerse opinion were such that none of all their scholars durst euer for shame for the proofe of their assertion name their owne doctors And truely a man might well maruel why heretikes hauing some that did plainely professe their opinions had yet rather picke out some darke sentence of any one of our holy fathers whome they knowe to be directly against them then out of those same doctors of their owne which in expresse wordes make for them You shall not lightly heare an heretike that denieth praying to sainctes or holdeth with open breache of holy vowes alleage Iouinianus or Vigilantius Nor a Sacramentarie seeke for the authoritye of Berengarius or Wicleffe though they be of some antiquitie and without colour plainely doe mainteine the doctrine that so well lyketh them But they will trauell to writh with plaine iniurie to the author some sentence out of Augustine or Ambrose or some other that by their whole life and practise open them selues to the worlde to beleue the contrary and all this by some shewe of wordes for the bearing of their false assertions Marke it well I saye in heretikes that they can not for shame of them selues euer name any of the plaine auouchers of their owne opinions The cause is that the only vpholding of their opinions made them infamous to the whole posterity And if any honour grewe vnto them amongest the simple because they lacked not the wayes to procure the peoples consent with admiration of their eloquence or other plausible and populare qualities in their dayes yet trueth following time their same raised vpon so light causes easely decayd and the grounde of perpetuall infamie sattled in wise mens heartes by the wickednesse of their attemptes remained for a testimony to all posteritie of their shame and ignominie And this I speake not onely of the authors of our common sectes for they neuer atteined to any shade of famous report in their dayes because they coulde deceiue none but simple wemen but I meane by Arius him selfe and Pelagius with the like who in their owne time being of great esteeme amongest many whome they deceiued yet after their death more more they grew to shame and infamie so farre that who so euer were of their opinions afterward durste not yet for shame vse their name or authority for proofe of their owne doctrine See you not in our dayes howe freshe the name of Luther Caluin Bucer with that rable was amongest the rude people whome they had wonne either with speach or pleasure of licentious doctrine and loe nowe it decayeth in a maner or their bones be coulde The peoples sensies raueshed with the present pleasure of such as they hearde last like them so longe as they heare them afterwarde their memory remaineth onely to malediction Vidi impium superexaltatum eleuatum sicut Cedros Libani transiui ecce non est quaesiui non est inuentus locus eius I haue seene the wicked exalted and set vp as the Cedre trees of Libanus I passed by and loe out of hande he is no body I sought him and his abiding can not be founde VVho so euer shall seeke for our glorious preachers with in this C. yeare he shall finde them in such estimation then as their forefathers be nowe that is to say to be vnworthy the naming of their owne adherents if any of that secte liue and last so longe For let them neuer looke to come to the infamous fame of Arrius the best of all these secte maisters not worthy to be scholar to a hundreth of his followers Thus loe is the case of heretikes liked of fooles when they be alieue contemned of all men when they are deade 8 M. Allen marueileth and giueth a speciall note that we name not Iouinian Vigilantius Berengarius or VVickleffe to be the authors of our doctrine but rather hang vppon some sentence of Augustine or Ambrose and thinketh we are ashamed of the other In deede if we depended vpon any mens authoritie or that any man or men were the authors of our faith as it fareth with the popish faith we should be iniurious vnto them if we did not acknowledge our foūders as they doe some of theirs But seeing God him selfe is the father of that doctrine which we haue receiued by his holy word we neither boast vpon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Beringarius when they agree therewith We refuse not the truth that Tertullian Origin haue taught because they taught heresies also neither do we receiue the errors of Cypriā Augustin because they taught many points of true faith Onely the canonicall Scriptures are the rule by which we iudge of all men and their writings of all doctrine and the teachers therof It is a ridiculous thing that M. Allen like a cold Prophet taketh vpon him to tell what shall be thought of our preachers names within these hundred yeares But what so euer he prateth the memory of the righteous shall remayne for euer neither shall they be afrayde of any euill reporte their names are written in the booke of life which are ordeyned vnto eternall glory howso euer they be accounted of by the wicked of this worlde And yet there is no cause why we should not thinke that the names and writings of Luther Caluine and Bucer shal remayne in good account with Gods Church euen vntil they them selues shall come with Christ to iudge the worlde when in the meane time Eccius Pighius Cocleus and such other shall not be remembred but as obstinate withstanders of the truth and enemies of the Gospell 9 Now in the doctors of Gods Church it is cleane contrarie and no lesse worthy to be noted for our purpose for their honour and estimation rising vpon the sure vnfallible grounde of Gods trueth by yeares and time gathereth such force that not onely their memorie is in perpetuall benediction before God but their workes follow them in the mindes of their posteritie to their owne eternall praise and benefite of all their followers And which is much more to be woundered at they haue so passed enuy and malice of man that euen those which deadly hate them dare not but praise them And such as mislike their doctrine
whose workes the aduersaries woulde be glad of one likely sentence And whose life and doctrine are so glorious in Gods Church that their owne aduersaries raling at vs aliue yet dare not but with great feare once blemish their names departed Though sometimes it brastithe out in some one of them to their owne miscredit So beutifull is the light of trueth And on the other side howe miserable is their carefull case that followe and defende that doctrine the authors whereof they dare neither acknowledge nor name whome all good men with open mouth boldely doe reprehend and their owne scholars dare not defende Such a glorious maiesty this doctrine of theires beareth that pricketh vp with pryde those that be alyue and blotteth out of honest memorie her doctors that be deade 10 Nay M. Allen though those doctors build some hay or stuble vpon the onely foundation Christ their case is ten thousand times better then yours which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble vpon no foundation at all except it be the sande and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our fayth Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name and woe may be to such Catholikes as can finde nothing but hay and stuble where such store of precious matter is and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency And happy be those which not regarding the streames of waters that runne through the vaynes of earth but seeking to the onely fountayne of heauenly truth conteyned in the holy scriptures haue certeyne comfort of saluation while they are aliue and sure possession of felicitie with Christ as soone as they are dead yea which dye not at all because they beleue in Christ which is life nor enter into iudgement but passe from death of this body which is temporall vnto life of body and soule which is eternall The first Author of that secte vvhich denieth prayers for the departed is noted his good condicions and cause of his error be opened vvhat kinde of men haue bene most bent in all ages to that secte And that this heresy is euer ioyned as a fit companion to other horrible sectes CAP. XIIII 1 BVt yet because they haue diffamed our practise in praying and offering for the deade by referring it to a later origine then the Apostolike authority and tradition seeing we haue fathered our vsage vpon such as the aduersaries dare not blame we will helpe them to seeke out the fathers of their faithles perswasion lest by the feare and bashfullnesse of their owne scholars they be vnkindly forgotten Mary to finde out these obscure loyterers it will be somewhat painefull because as theeues doe they kepe by wayes and lightly treade not in honest mens pathes For the finding out of recordes for the testimony of our trueth we kepte the day light the high waye of Gods Church All the knowen notable personages in the holy Citye of God offered them selues both to witnesse and proue with vs VVe droue this trueth from our dayes through the middest of that holy communitie which S. Augustine calleth the Citye of God and our aduersaries will not saye otherwise but they were the liuely membres of that happy and heauenly fellowship VVe brought the practise of it to the holy Apostles by plaine accompte we went with the trueth of our cause to the lawe of Moyses from thense by like light to the lawe of nature But nowe for the other sorte we must leaue the cytie of God and the fellowship of these noble personages of doctors Apostles Prophets and Patriarches and seeke on the lifte hande in the other citye which is of Augustine named the citye or common welth as a man might call it of the deuill in which body all practise of mischiefe and origin of error ishuing from that vnhappy heade to the corrupt and deadly limmes thereof is to be founde VVe shall heare of the aduersary perswasion then in the company of Anabaptistes of Arrians of Saduceis of Epicures where so euer the weedes of the common enemies corrupte seede groweth there shall we find amongest breares and brembles this choking weede with all For as the true preachers the Apostles of Christ Iesu did sowe in the beginning of the Christian church which was the springe of the worde of lyfe and trueth amongest other heauenly seedes of true doctrine that profitable practise for the reliefe of such as were hense departed in the sleepe of peace with the decent ordre which euer fithens the Catholicke Church hath obediently followed euen so Inimicus homo superseminauit zizania the common enemy came afterwarde and ouersewe darnell and cockle either for the vtter choking or else for the especiall let of that good seede which the Maister of this fielde by his houshold seruauntes had plentifully sowen before This common aduersarie as our maister him selfe expoundeth it is the Deuill who as he in all other thinges beneficiall to mankinde is a great staye so Christian mens commoditie in this point he notably hindereth by his wicked suggestions and deuilish deuise whereby he prouoketh many vnder the shewe of Gods word or bare name therof for that is the lambes cote which this wyely wolfe boroweth to maske in to be vnkind vnnaturall and with out all godly affection towards their departed frendes The which contrary corrupt seede of false doctrine we right well know came of the sayd aduersary because it was long after ouersowen learning further of Tertullian Id verum esse quodcunque primum id adulterinum quod posterius That to be true that was first taught and that to be false and forged which came latter CAP. XIIII 1 WHen the Apostolike writing can not be shewed it is but the poynt of an heretike to boast of Apostolike tradition So did the Valentinians although their heresie were newe when they were confuted by the Scriptures shrowed them selues vnder the name of traditions as we haue shewed before out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therfore it is but vayne bragging that you promise to seeke out any other fathers of our perswasion then the Apostles of Christ by whose holy writings we neuer refuse to be iudged what if any heretike haue affirmed some thing that is true is truth worse in an heretikes mouth The deuills them selues confessed christ Their confession was true their testimony was refused So if any heretike haue confessed the truth we may receiue the truth and yet reiect his testimony For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denyed by the deuill it is all one The high way that you prate of is a bye way for the Scripture is the onely high way to the truth with the guidance of Gods spirite And yet that way which you haue taken hath so many hills and holes woods and thickets that you haue rather flyen ouer it in a dreame and imagination
then trauailed through it in deede when you walked through the city of God which Augustine describeth I maruaile you could not see the westerne Babylon Rome to be the city or cōmon wealth of the deuill lib. 16. cap. 17. lib. 18. cap. 21. cap. 22. cap. 27. The mother of all abominations of the earth which either inuented or tempered of others inuention that golden cuppe full of abominations vncleanes of her whordoms with which she made drunken all the Kinges of the earth And therefore that we can not reade out of the word of God we shall heare of Purgatory among the Paganes Carpocratianes Heracleonites and Montanistes of whose heresies and pestilent practises the whore of Babylon hath patcht vp her purgatory and sacrifices for the deade as by and by I shall declare In deede the enuious man the deuil hath sowed these wicked sect masters And that doctrine which is first agreeable to Tertullians rule is vndoubtedly true and that which is later is false But howe shall the first doctrine be knowen but by the word of God wherein all the doctrine of God is taught But by the holy Scriptures which are able to make the man of God perfect and prepared to all good workes And seeing praying and offering for the deade as Tertullian him selfe confesseth is not taught by the Scriptures it is no good worke whereto the man of God should be prepared And for as much as you haue giuē me example of a syllogisme in Baroco in the last chapter I wil frame you the like nowe All good workes are taught by the Scriptures oblatiōs for the deade are not taught by the Scriptures therefore oblations for the deade are no good workes The maior is S. Paule 2. Timot. 3. The minor is Tertullians de corona militis Deny the conclusion if you dare 2 And yet besides that generall and most certaine instruction learned Damascen helpeth vs to the trial of this peculiar case Doubting not to affirme that all such cogitations as doe entre into mans head against the prayers or charitable workes for the departed be the deuills enuious and subtill suggestions for the hinderaunce of our brethern departed from the heauenly ioyes For thus he writeth in a sermon for the same purpose That olde serpent sayeth he whose endeuoure is to corrupt and deface the good and acceptable workes of God to lay snares for the entrapping of mens soules who is much perced through brotherly loue and brasteth in sunder for the enuy that he beareth towardes our faith and finally is madded by our naturall compassion one towardes an other as one that is the vtter renouncer of all good lawes he enspireth to some a fayned and false imagination cleane contrary to the holy constitutions that is to saye that all good and acceptable workes before God shoulde no whit proffet the departed soules If this writers iudgement be good as it is sure most sounde then must all our vnnatural and vnkind preachers haue an especiall inspiration of the deuill him selfe so often as they hinder fauour and grace from the deade For as he reduced our origin to the Apostles so he doubteth not to auouche the contrary perswasion to be euidently moued by the olde serpent of especiall enuie towardes mans saluation And nowe if thou list knowe in whome this subtill suggestion tooke first place and roote after the longe vsage of the other according to the Apostles planting we shall make thee for thy especiall comfort partaker thereof also VVe will not vse the aduersaries as they doe vs charging vs with later preaching or doctrine then the Apostles planted yet can neither tell where nor by whome it beganne But we shal by open euidence call the woolfe by his name Let an heretike but set out foot and once open mouth though he doe no harme at all yet the watcheman of Israell hath him by the backe straight The dogges were neuer so dumme in Gods Church but they woulde barke at the first apparance of any straunge cattell For that the notation of his arising and name was not onely a warning to the present time to take heede to their faith but an admonition to all the posteritie to beware of the like And it was euer counted a refutation of an heresie to the full to reduce it to a latter infamous author by the certaine recorde of the Churches historie The which kinde of reason both amongest the learned hath singular strength and is sensible for the people and of the aduersarie vtterly inuincible Irenaeus vseth it against the heresies of his time as a demonstration of much force VVhat saith he before Valentinus there was none of that his false secte and he came in with his seede after the first preaching of our faith a good while I can tell when he beganne howe he increased how longe he continued Both he and that other Cerdon entered first vnder the gouernment of Hyginius grewe vpwarde vnder Pius and continued till Anicetus time and so making the like accompt of other archeheretikes at length thus he concludeth all these rose vp in their apostacie longe after that the Church was ordered in faith and doctrine In this sense spake Irenaeus 2 Damascene your doctor which knew the depth of Satan so well should first haue reproued that perswasion by Scripture and then it had bene easy to haue found out the policie of the deuill But when we learne by Scripture that your doctrine is contrary to the fayth and hope of Christians it is not hard to iudge that the deuill inuented it vnder colour of charitie to ouerthrow faith and vnder shewe of helpe of mē to dishonour god You spend many words in vayne to proue that the first author of an opinion being found the opinion is found to be an heresy It shal be graūted with all fauour but so that no man shall be counted the first author of an opinion that is able to proue his opinion out of the word of god And withall that who so euer is not able to proue by the word of God any opiniō that he holdeth obstinatly though he haue many authors before him yet is he neuerthelesse an heretike 3 But the rule is common and certaine as any can be in the worlde and I woulde stande vpon the grounde thereof against all false doctrine in the worlde and thus it is Any opinion that may be truely fathered vppon any priuate man that was longe after the trueth was first preached by the Apostles if it be vpon a point of our faith and contentiously mainteined it is an heresie And thus againe who so euer was withstande in his first arising and preaching by such as were in the vnitie of the Church he was a false teacher and his abettours be heretikes And the force of this conclusion is so greate that the heretikes them selues if they can get any likely shew of raysing of any doctrine or practise of Gods Church in these latter
thought that all men should passe through his purgatory at length be saued Afterward when prayers for the deade were growne out of memoryes for the deade which were without prayers in Origens tyme as appeareth in his wordes in Iob. lib. 3. but kept with almes to the poore and reioysing for their rest about S. Augustines time the name of purgatory was first inuented by some mediatores and conciliatores of Origens error with the erroneous practise of the church And this was a great corruption of those auncient tymes that they did not alwaies weigh what was most agreeable to the word of God but if the Gentiles or heretikes had any thing that semed to haue a shew of pietie or charitie they would draw it into vse with such correction as they thought was sufficient So they tooke the signe of the crosse from the Valentinians oblations for the dayes of death and birth of the Gentiles prescript tymes of fasting and vnmeasurable extolling of sole life in the ministers of the Church from the Maniches Tacianistes and Montanistes prayer for the deade of the Montanistes purgatory fire of the Originestes yea Ieronym was almost fallen into the heresie of Tertullian in condemning second mariages yea euē the name of sacrifice which was commonly vsed for the celebration of the Lordes supper they tooke vp of the Gentiles Finally it appeareth that the faithfull in Tertullians tyme which were not of his sect beleued not that the soules of Christians departed came into his hell or lower partes where he maketh so many mansions but that they were placed in heauen where Christ is against whom he reasoneth after his brawling and taunting maner that he vseth against the Catholikes libro de anima cap. de inferis And they that so beleue allow no prayers for the deade Wherefore it is left that Montanus and his followers were the first that taught prayers for the deade to be profitable because that the soules of the faithfull that were not made perfect by martyrdom or other streight penance must pay the vttermost farthing in prison and suffer the least offences in the lower partes if they were not holpen with prayers Therfore Aerius was not the first that helde our opinion but Montanus before him was the first that held your opinion throughly against the Catholikes of his tyme Wherfore you are welcome home for heretikes by your owne rule 5 Then for many a day together this doctrine was dashte till the time of holy S. Bernard and Petrus the reuerent Abbate of Cluny by which two notable housekeping dogges that were neuer dumme in the Churches neede this woolfe appearing once againe was both noted and oppenly vanquished And in their dayes this falsehood that before was a compagnion of the Arrians marke well the course of thinges good reader was nowe matched with the Anabaptistes who in that time as the saide writers doe recorde did call them selues Apostolici that is to say Apostolicke or followers of the Apostles so they woulde be termed to delude the ignorant by the bewty of that glorious name as now their ofspring call them selues Euangelici that is to say gospellers and the pure preachers of the word and gospell S. Bernard touched them to the quicke in a sermon by these wordes Loe sayeth he these miscreants loe these dogges they laugh vs to skorne that we baptise infants that we pray for the deade that we require the helpe of holy Sainctes they exclude Christes grace in all sortes and euery kinde in olde and younge in the liue and in the deade Looke you nowe with their Gospell like name they were counted no better then prophane dogges of this holy father that laught so skornefully at Christes Church for praying for the deade and inuocation of Sainctes and shall we make such Iewels of their scholars now a dayes In all ages since this wielde seede was first sowne the true preachers the workemen of Gods haruest haue euer plucked it vp as it first appeared The which wede was better knowene from the corne because it euer grewe amongest the bundels of briers and brembles was of that waisting nature that it could not be tolerated without the vtter choking of the wheate 5 Barnard was but a late writer to speake of and whether those that were called in his tyme Apostolici were sclaundered for denying of baptisme to infantes when perhaps they denyed onely some of your popish ceremonies which you vse about baptisme I am not able to say certein it is that the godly called pauperes de Lugduno VValdenses which were about that tyme were sclaundered with many detestable opinions which it is nowe well knowne that they neuer did holde But howe so euer it were that which they affirmed of trueth must not be condemned because of that where in they erred the Arrians were the first that added vnto the Symbole the article of descending into Hell shall we thinke worse of that article which is true because of there heresie which is false 6 This doctrine I saye being of it selfe very pernicious yet it is euer in company of other mischiefe For the principall author of this secte was an Arian then the followers as Bernard witnesseth were Anabaptistes or worse To whome all men much maruell that God should rather reueale such misteries of trueth then to other that were sownde in faith And in deede I woulde gladly meete with some one good fellowe or other of that secte that were learned with al that he might resolue me in this doubt why this conclusion of not offering or praying for the deade of not keping the ordinarie fastes of contemning the Sainctes helpe in heauen and the residue of your new Creede why God seeing all light of trueth commeth of his grace openeth these misteries alwayes and onely to such as you your selues can not deny to be heretikes VVhy did he reueale in the primitiue Church that doctrine to an Arian being an open enemie of his holy name and not to Athanasius or Epiphanius or some other blessed men of that time I stande the longer vpon this point that the worlde and who so euer is the simplest maye beholde your miserie and shame for I knowe you can say nothing in this case for your defense but euen beare with blacke blotted consciencies the infamy of willfull blindnesse Howe saye you did not your doctrine afterwarde appeare againe amongest wicked Anabaptistes that deny amongest other things the baptising of infants it was neither reueled to Bede nor Bernard I warrant you But come lower yet to our owne time you knowe full well we haue store of Anabaptistes of Arians of Saduceis of Epicures and of all other sectes that the deuill euer deuised such light of trueth hath our happy age by your preaching tell me trueth nowe be not all these whome you counte heretikes as well as we doe be they not all I saye of your opinion in this matter and not one of them of our 6 I
conteyned the argument is most inuincible that concludeth negatiuely thus All true doctrine is taught in the Scripture purgatory is not taught in the Scripture therefore purgatory is no true doctrine And this conclusion M. Allen him selfe made of mans authoritie cap. 13. purgatory and prayers for the dead were not preached against at their first entry ergo they are true But of all mens authoritie it is false wheras he sayth we are ouerthrowers destroyers we confesse we are so of all false doctrine and heresie For the word of God is appoynted not only to teach truth but also to ouerthrow error not onely to build faith but to destroy falshood But it is a proper cōceit wherin he pleaseth him self as other of his sect do to tel vs that all our faith standeth vpon negatiues I could frame the Papists as holsome a creede all vpō affirmatiues if they wil receiue it This is more then boyish babling All trueth is to be affirmed all falshood to be denyed Therefore it is not to be loked what is affirmatiue and what negatiue but what is true or false that is affirmed or denyed But to runne through the articles of that creede which he hath framed for vs we truely beleue that man after his fall hath not free will no not aptnes of will to thinke any thing that is good 2. Cor. 3. we beleue truely that a man is not iustified by workes but by faith onely Rom. 3. And yet we beleue that good workes are necessary to be in euery man that is iustified Iac. 2. we beleue that the Church is not alwayes knowne to the wicked vpon earth neither the vniuersall Church seene at all of men because it is in heauen Gal. 4. we beleue that the catholicke Church hath no chiefe gouerner vppon earth but Christ vnto whom all power is giuen in heauen earth Matth. 28. we beleue there are but 2. Sacraments of the new testament baptisme and the Lordes supper instituted by Christ 1. Cor. 10. we beleue that they geue not grace of the worke wrought but after the faith of the receiuer and according to the election of God. 1. Cor. 10. Baptisme is necessary for all Christians to receiue that are not by necessitie excluded from it 1. Pet. 3. Christ is present at his Supper but not after a grosse and caparnaiticall maner but as he was present in Manna to the fathers 1. Cor. 10. There is no sacrifice propitiatory for our sinnes but onely the sacrifice of Christes death once offered for all Heb. 10. There is no priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatory but only the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedech Heb. 7. The spirituall priesthood is common to all Christian men and women 1. Pet. 1. we haue an altar of which it is not lawfull for them to eate which serue the tabernacle and other beside we haue none Heb. 13. we call not vpon Sainctes because we beleue not in them for how shoulde we call vpon them in whome we beleue not Rom. 10. There is no prayer for the deade nor purgatory after this life because they that liue vnto Christ dye vnto him and being dissolued are with him Ioan. 17. Christ descended into hell to redeeme vs out of hell by suffering the wrath of God for our sinnes Heb. 5. There is no Lymbus for the fathers were at rest with God where they are now whether we call the place Abrahams bosome or paradise or heauen Luke 16. and 23. 2. Cor. 12. The rest which you adde maye be the beginning of the Popish creede which you maye as you list continue negatiuely or affirmatiuely after this maner God a lone knoweth not the heartes of all men God onely is not to be worshipped and serued for Sainctes haue both the one and the other God onely is not true for the Pope can not erre Christ is not our onely mediator and aduocate for Marie and the Sainctes are also Christes death is not a sufficient redemption for vs for we must satisfie for our selues Christes death hath not taken away both our sinnes and the punishment of them but the Popes padon maye Christ is not onely our high priest according to the order of Melchizedech for euery hedge priest is of the same order Christ hath not made them that are sanctified perfect by a sacrifice once offered for all For y greatest part is lefte to the masse Our sinnes are not freely forgeuen vs by Christ for we must satisfie for them A man is not iustified by fayth without the workes of the lawe for euery man must merite for him selfe The scriptures are not sufficient to teach vs all trueth but we must haue vnwritten verities The worde of God is not of soueraine authoritie for the decrees of the Pope and generall councells be equall with it This is the Papistes creede both in the affirmatiue and in the negatiue But in that you exhort the Papistes to reade Caluins institution and there to see whether he teacheth any truth therein I woulde to God that all Papistes in Englande woulde followe your counsell pray vnfaynedly that God would open there eyes that they may see his trueth if it be taught in that booke 2 This negatiue faith hath no grounde nor confidence of thinges to be hoped for nor any certaintie of such thinges as doe not yet appeare but it is an euident ouerthrowe of all our hope and a very canker of the expectation of thinges to come This faith therefore of these pluckers downe must needes vse a conuenient instrument to destroye and not to builde to plucke vp and not to plante to improue and not to make proofe But what way is that mary by way of negatiue proofe they confirme their negatiue and no faith Purgatory say they nor prayers for the deade be not so much as once named in all the scripture ergo there is neither of them to be beleued VVhich forme of argument serued the Arians against the consubstātiall vnitie of God the father his sonne our Sauiour It helped the Anabaptistes against the baptisme of infantes it was profitable to Heluidius against the perpetuall virginitie of Gods mother and it helpeth all pluckers downe but it neuer serueth a buylder The vanity whereof is so well knowen that I will not stande to talke thereof namely seeing it hath no place in our cause for which we haue brought diuers scriptures all construed by most learned fathers for that sense and some so euident that they droue our aduersaries to the open deniall of the holy canonicall scripture 2 What grounde or confidence of thinges not seene and yet hoped for our fayth hath it is not for infidells to iudge no more then for blinde men to iudge of collours And as for our negatiue argument it is stronger then your affirmatiue error can abide there of groweth the spight But when as you saye we frame our argument of the name of purgatory onely or prayers for
Protestant is posed Lib. 8. constit 49. 1. Epist. ca. 5 The church maye praye for any sinner in this life vvith hope of mercy Carth. Lib. 21. Cap. 24. Bracarens Cap. 34. Vide Timo. Alexand. respons 14. Heretikes not to be praide for after their death Homil 21. in Cap. 9. Actuum VVho be most apte to receiue benefite by the prayers of the liuing Enchir. cap. 110. Lib. 4. epist. 5. Tractat 84. in IoanneÌ„ Hovv prayer vvhich taketh no effect in the departed is profitable to the procurer Act. 5. 1. ad Tim. 1. 1. Cor. 5. Concilium AphricanuÌ„ Epist. 9. The heretikes called vpon to aunsvvere The vvhole matter ordered to our handes The common names of honour geueÌ„ to the holy Masse in old time S. lib. epist. 33. epist. praecat prima praeparante ad Missam b super vndec prouer c Histor. tripartit 24. d cap. li. 10. d The force and institution of the holy Masse The nevve communion is here described Heresie vvith her disordered ministers shal not out face Gods church and Christes eternall priesthood Psal. 100. Mat. 16. The holy Masse taken avvaye for our sinnes Men that vvere greuous offenders in olde time punished by lacke of the sacrifice De Coena domini Ita Policarp ex Iren. Victor de persecut Vandal Eccles. ca. 7. Epist. 8. li. 2. Homil. 3. in EpistolaÌ„ ad Philipp Theodor â–ª dial 2. Aug. super psal 98. Dionis ecclesiast hierarch cap. 3. Basil. de spiritu Sanct. cap. 17. Lib. 3. de Trin. c. 10. Lib. 20. contra Faustum cap. 13. Lib. 10. Histo trip ca. 18 20. Theodosius Iun. 12. Lib. tripartit ca. 2. Euseb. in vita Constantini 2 Orat. in Iulian. In 2. Cap. ad Heb. hom 4. Hierom. Epitap Paulae De cura pro mortuis agenda De ciuit 1. Lib. c. 12. 13. Cap. 18. de cura pro mort The sainctes pray for the soules in purgatory vve pray vnto saictes for them Cap. 4. de cura pro mort Super 11. cap. Prouer. Masse alvvaye saide for the departed Ambros. epist. 8. l. 2. If the nevv byshoppes vvere like S. Ambros. their teaching vvold not be contrary to his Super obit Theodosij Imperatoris Super obitu Valentiniani In oratione funebr super Satyr In Epist. 1. ad Amandum Epist. 3. Ex lib. 9. Confess ca. 11.13 vlt. Note the vvhole History and feare not to follovv it The cursed Cham hath many children in our dayes Cap. 13. lib. 9. vltimo M Grindall looke in your grammer vvhat figure S. Augustin vsed heâ—â— Possidonius in vita August Beda lib. 1. cap. 31. Lib. 4. hist. cap. 21. That faith is the true faith into vvhich our nation vvas first coÌ„uerted from infidelity Note and take heede betÃme If praying for the dead vvere takeÌ„ avvay ther should no steppe of religion remayne All our superintendents are deepely daily periured A harde questioÌ„ proposed to the Protestant Super Aggaeum So sayth S. Augustine ofteÌ„ against the Pelagians De cura pro mort Constitut. l. 8. cap. 47. Eccles. hierarch c. 17. In homil contra Sabellian Athan ad Epitectum Ita Suidas testatur Origen Athan Damascen Nicenum 2. Epist. 9. li. 1. De cura pro mortuis alibi saepe Lyturgia Chrysosto Lyturgia Basilia Vniuersalis Canon Lyturgia ArmenioruÌ„ In prima prece praeparatoria ad missam A notable solemne prayer of S. Ambroâ—e for the soules departed De Ecclesi officijs lib. 1. Cap. 15. Lib. 2. cap. 3. Contra epistolaÌ„ Parmeniani Epist. 107. contra Vital I gesse it vvas M. Pilkinton of Duresme De prescri aduers. haereti Epist. 165. Lib. 3. cap. 3 Note De simplicit praelatorum By heretiks preaching many are become Catholikes Our Masse is all one vvith the Masses of aâ—l other cuntries and tymes Against the Chester maÌ„ Looke the Iniunction for the mariage of Priestes other thiÌ„gs The youngers must thus pose their maisters Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 2 In confessione VVittember In Apologia Instit. de Coena Epistol ad Ianuar. de Baptis contra Donatist lib. 4. cap. 24. Sermone 2. de ieiunio A sure vvay to try the beginning of any doctrine Note De corona militis Ser. 22. de ver Apost Hostia incruenta The Apostles be the orderers of our sacrifice Psalm 49. The ende of schisme Quâ—st 34. ad Antioch Ibidem The rule of trueth Heretikes do against their ovvne consciences Note Note the gile of an heretike Note Psal. 36. Lib. 2. contra Iulian. Lib. 2. contra Iulian. The high vvaye of trueth The by vvay of heresy Math. 13. Tertul. de praescript Our Protestantes be inspired by Damascens iudgement Of the author of this nevv sectâ— Lib. 3. cap. 4. The trial of false preachers A generall rule to knovve heresie by Cap. 75. li. 3. In Anacephal Arius Aërius In lib. de haeres ad Quod vult One that hath forsaken the Church is indifferent to vvhat heresie you vvill And therefore they call their doinges Proceding Prouer. 18. Vbi sup 13. Note vvell Damascen in oratione pro defunctis de haeres Note vvell hovv this falshood euer ioyneth it selfe to other horrible sectes Sermone 66. super cantic I trovve no Protestant caÌ„ ansvvere vvith reason to thiâ— point Here this sect ioyneth vvith the sacrameÌ„tariés and the rest of miscreaunts Marke vvel Vide Hiero nimuÌ„ sup 3. ad Galatas Ioan. 9. Cap. 79. Cap. 34. Cap. 2. Note In initio Concilij Florentini The holy Councel of Trente hath also determined the same against the heretikes of our times All heretikes do coÌ„demne couÌ„cels The humble obedience of Catholikes to the gouernours of Gods Church Ruffin Hovve they practise vvith the simple Greâ—â— impudeÌ„cy in heretikes The sophistry of heretikes Here lyeth the doubt and diuersitie betvvixt heretikes Catholikes Cap. 1. Cap. 7. Cap. 5. Cap. 14. Phisic 1. l. An ansvver to the first place Esay 38. Bern. ser. 4. de fest omniuÌ„ Sanct. Amb. super 5. ad Romanos Caluins absurd doctrine is refuted The state of such in the next vvorld as by Gods omnipoteÌ„tie vvere raised to life againe An ansvver to the secoÌ„d text An ansvver to the third argument CX An ansvver to the laste scripture Cap. 9. lib. 20. de ciuit Isay. 57. Their nevv no faith is vpholden by a negatiue argument A ProtestaÌ„ts Crede Like faith like argument M. Grindall in his funerall sermon Note One sacrifice for the liue and the deade Lib. 2. de Orig. Animae Cap. 11. The coÌ„clusion of the vvhole boke vvith an admonition to the reader Math. 24. Gene. 28. Cantic 4. THE ARGVMENTES OF euery Chapter of both the Bookes Of the first Booke THe Preface vvhere in be noted tvvo sortes of heretikes the one pretending vertue the other openly professing vice And that our time is more troubled by this second sorte VVith a briefe note of the Authors principall intent in this Treatise Pref. argu pag. 10. chapter 1 That often after our sinnes be forgiuen by the sacrament of
Pope and all her enemies she is to this day preserued and shal be to the worldes end Therefore the gates of Hell haue not preuailed against her nor the promise of Christ hath failed And whereas you say that your bastard church hath spoiled her of all holy actions gouernment and Christian name it is a most impudent lye as it is true that you sawe a bastard church vsurped her holy name counterfaicted her holy actions and turned her gouernment into tyrannie 4 Let me see therefore howe the onely dearling and spouse of Christ shoulde be neglected of him so long SHe hath not bene neglected of him but felt his continuall aide he hath geuen her safe deliuerance of her childe taken it vp from the crueltie of the Dragon he hath prouided her a place in the wildernesse he hath made warre with the Dragon for her sake and driuen him out of heauen he hath geuen her Eagles wings to flie into the wildernesse he hath caused the earth to swallow vp the water that shoulde haue caried her awaie he hath geuen the remnant of her seede Victorie ouer the Dragon Finally his mercifull protection and louing care ouer her hath neuer more notably appeared than that against so many daungers and enemies all this while he hath preserued her vntill such time as he hath thought good now to bring her out of her secret place in the wildernesse into the open sight of the worlde againe 5 Let the aduersarie shew that the Church shoulde euer by superstition and falshood commit adultery or be deuorcâ— from him THe true church consisting of God his elect and the liuely members of the bodie of Christ shall neuer commit such adultery that she shal be diuorced from him But the visible church by Idolatrie and superstition may separate her selfe from Christ and be refused of him as God speaketh by Esay to the church of Ierusalem cap. 1. How is the faithfull Citie become an harlot It was full of iudgement and iustice lodged therein but now they are murtherers Thy siluer is become drosse and thy wine is mixed with water Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of theeues c. euen so maye he say to the church of Rome how is that faithfull church become an harlot true Faith and Religion haue dwelled in her but now Idolatrie and superstition thy siluer is turned into drosse and thy wine is mixed with water thou hast nothing pure and vncorrupted thy Princes be rebellious Antichristes c. Thus I haue shewed that the visible church may become an adulteresse and be deuorced from Christ. 6 Or that Christ should euer want his spouse in earth THis hath bene often aunswered before Christ hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth though the blinde world can not alwayes see her or when they see her will not acknowledge her to be his spouse but persecute her as if she were an adulteresse 7 Or that he shoulde be a heade either without a bodie THese are but one thing in diuers phrases as he hath neuer wanted his spouse in earth so hath he neuer bene an heade without a bodie and seeing these wordes in this sence are relatiues for Christ is called a heade in respect of the Church which is his body and the Church is called a bodie in respect of Christ that is her heade I aunswere you by a rule of the Logicians No man knoweth a relatiue except he know the correlatiue thereof Therefore though Christ had a bodie in earth yet coulde it be knowen of none but such as knewe Christ the heade of that bodie Of whome when the Papistes were ignorant specially when they appointed an other heade in earth it is no marueill if they could not see the bodie of Christ though he haue neuer bene without it 8 Or such an vnknowne and small bodie THis hath bene answered immediatly before it sufficeth that it be knowne to Christ the head As he sayeth My sheepe heare my voyce and I know them Iohn 10. And to them that be of the members of the same body As for the rest it is not necessary that they should alwayes see it which will neuer acknowledge it Neither is it so smal as it is thought of it is dispersed in many places ouer all the worlde and yet fewe in comparison of the malignant church whose number is as the sand of the sea c. Apoc. 20. 9 Or that Christes only kingdom should become so coÌ„temptible NOthing else is to be looked for of the worlde but hatred and contempt as Christ him selfe sayth You shall be hated of all men for my names sake Matth. 10. S. Paule biddeth vs looke on our calling not many wise men according to the flesh not many mighty men not many noble men but God hath chosen the foolish thinges of this world to confound the wise and the weake of this worlde to confounde the stronge 1. Cor. 1. And what hath the true church to boast in but in the Crosse of Christ. Gal. 6. than the which nothing is more shamefull contemptible or reprochefull to the wisedome of this worlde what knowledge or preaching hath the true church but Iesus Christ crucified which to the Iewes is an offence and to the Greekes foolishnesse but to them that be called both Iewes and Greekes it is the power and wisedome of God to euerlasting saluation 1. Cor. 1. Rom. 1. So that as the church in the sight of God and his Sainctes is most glorious and honorable so in the sight of the worlde it hath alwayes bene most base and contemptible 10 Or that his spouse in earth shoulde euer lacke the singular prerogatiues of Gods spirite shewe me these thinges and I recant THis also hath ben declared before in the second demande of this Article There be certeine singular prerogatiues which are not continually with God his Church as the gift of tongues the gift of prophesie the gift of healinges c. but there be other prerogatiues of God his spirit that are necessary for the saluation of God his elect as the gift of vnderstanding the gift of Faith the spirit of adoption c. and these the spouâ—e of Christ hath neuer wanted Wherefore if you wil be partaker of those benefits which are receiued in the church of Christ you must forsake your Romish religion and recant The 25. article hath 2. demandes 1 Shew me that the Church which ought to be a Christian mans staye in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine might become so hidde or so close that no man coulde finde her THe reader must not be offended with me for any tedious repetition of mine aunsweres seeing you geue the occasion by propounding your demandes so often This demande hath a false principle that the church ought to be a Christian mans onely staie in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine for when soeuer any such tempestes doe arise there is as great question and doubt of the Church as there is controuersie of the doctrine
for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande fower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was bidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching â—xhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. Thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commoÌ„ consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preachâ—ng the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall dishes but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some were proper for a time and then ceased as working of miracles and diuers other functions of the spirite Some are neuer necessary in the Church as succession of Bishops vniformitie in ceremonies c. But of all these notes there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome for she hath not alwaies practised open preaching and neuer preached the worde of truth she hath conuerted but few nations to her Religion from Gentilitie and them rather by warre than by preaching she neuer had sence she first arose the ministring of sacraments according to Christ his institutioÌ„ she hath hard matters in controuersie not for furtherance of Iustice but for loue of money Her iudiciarie power may be dispensed withall for money She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome And except so many schismes as they write of be orderly successions she hath not vniformitie in all ceremonies for diuerse nations and diuerse Churches in these nations haue diuers
incredulity to blaspheme these peculiar steppes of the spirite S. Cyprian complaineth of such misbeleuers in his time that woulde not agree to the trueth after especiall reuelations had of the same VVhich kinde of men he noteth in the latter ende of an epistle by these wordes Quanquam sciam omnia ridicula visiones ineptas quibusdam videri sed vtique illis qui malunt contra sacerdotes credere quam sacerdoti Sed nihil mirum quando de Ioseph fratres sui dixerunt ecce somniator ille venit Although sayth he I know right well howe litle accompte they make of visions which they esteeme as mere trieftes But yet it is such onely that had rather beleeue against then with Gods priestes And no meruaill that is seeing good Iosephs owne brethern saide by him in mockage Lo yender comes the dreamer So did they scoffe at him because he had more familiarity with the spirite of God then the other had 4 Now followeth a large and needelesse apologie of visions and reuelations the doctrine of which is briefely and plainely set forth in the worde of God what so euer is consonant to the word of God is to be receiued that which is not agreable therewith is to be detested although not a man from purgatory but an angell from heauen were the bringer of it Then seeing the doctrine of purgatory is blasphemous against the merites of Christes death though all those fables of visions that are fayned to defende it were true stories yet are we nothing moued with them I passe ouer the impudency of this man which is not ashamed to compare so many thousand fables or illusions of Sathan as are reported to the maintaining of purgatory to the reuelation of S. Paule and the Apocalypse of S. Iohn or the appering of Moses and Elias with christ They may be in deede a great nombre of them not vnlike to that spirite of Samuell which was raised by the witche which as Augustine affirmeth and M. Allen dare not simply deny was the spirite of the Deuill him selfe 5 Now as the ioyes of heauen Paradise with the tormeÌ„t of sinners and other secrets of the next life haue bin straungly represented to some one or other in all ages by sundry meanes most expedient to our saluation and most seemely to the wisedom and will of the worker so certainely no article was euer with more force of spirite or more graue authority set forth sence the beginning of Christian religion then this one of Purgatory Neuer nation was conuerted to the faith but it had this trueth not only taught by worde but by miracle also confirmed And namely in that aboundant floode of faith when it pleased God almost at once to spreade his name amongest all these contryes it was thought most necessary to his diuine wisedome together with the true worship of his name to plant in all faithfull mens heartes the awe and necessary feare of that greeuous torment for the reuenge and iust iudgement of wicked life This greeuous payne was vttered by the very sufferers them selues as we may see in the notable histories of Paschasius and Iustus reported by S. Gregories owne mouth This greeuous punishment was agayne declared by Furseus who as the reuerent Bede reporteth had the beholding of the eternall blesse the euerlasting miâ—ery and the temporall payne of the next life Drichelmus also by the ordinaunce of God taken from amongst mortall men into the state of the next world after he had seene likewise the terrible iudgement of God practised euen vpon the elect was restored to life againe in our owne nation and was a witnesse worthy of all credit of this same truth not only by his word wherof he was so sparing all his life time after that he would not vtter this same mistery but with singular care and respect of the persons intent that asked him thereof but namely by passing great penaunce and incredible chastising of his body which proceded of the sensible knowledge that he had of the paynes prepared And being asked sometime as holy Bede sayth why he so tormented him selfe in the willing toleration of extreme heate or contrary cold both of frost and snow he made aunswere simply and shortly Frigidiora ora ego vidi austeriora ego vidi Ah maisters I haue seene colder I haue seene sharper Meaning by the vnspeakeable paines of Purgatory The whole history of his visions with many the like may be reade in the Ecclesiasticall history of our owne nation written by as faithfull a witnesse as euer was borne in our lande of such vertue that he woulde begile no man willingly of so great wisedome that he woulde report no tale nor triefle rashly of such grace and learning that he was well able to disâ—erne a false fable and superstitious illusion from a true and diuine reuelation For as it were foly and mere vanity to geue credit to euery spirite so to condemne a spirite or reuelation or any worke of Gods finger approued by the Church of God in which there hath euer bene the gifte of discerning spirites it is properly a sinne against the holy Ghost And because euery man hath not that gifte as I woulde not counsell any man ouer lightely to geue credit to euery priuat spirite and peculiar vision because they may come of wicked intentes and sinister motions so I thinke it were good in feare reuerence and humility to commit the discerning of such thinges to the spirite and iudgement of Gods Church VVith the belefe of euery peculiar mans phantasie we are not charged with humble submission of our whole life and belefe to the Church of Christ there are we especially charged And because there is nothing reported either in the workes of S. Gregory or in Bede or in Damascen or in any other the like concerning the paines either of the elect or the damned in the next life but as much hath bene vttered before by all the holy and learned fathers in great agony of minde and feare of the saide iudgement we may be the more bolde to thinke the best or rather we are bounde to thinke the best of that spirite which so conformably agreeth with the doctrine of the Church and faith of all the fathers There can no man say more of Purgatory nor more plainely then S. Ambrose being in a maner a frade him selfe of wasting away in that horrible tormeÌ„t none more effectually then S. Augustine that confesseth there is no earthely paine comparable vnto it none more fearefully then Eusebius Emissenus who termeth it skaulding waues of fire none more pithely then Paulinus that calleth those places of iudgements Ardentes tenebras burning darknesse More peculiarly may the circumstances and condicion of that state by God be reueled but the trueth thereof can not be more plainely declared nor better proued These babes feared no bugges I warraunt you neither picked they Purgatory out of Scipio his dreame
but they had it out of Gods holy worde and tradition of the holy Apostles and by the very suggestion of the spirite of trueth All which if it can not moue the misbeleuer and stay the rashenesse of the simple deceiued sort it shall be but lost labour to bring in any more for the confirmation of that trueth which all the holy doctours haue so fully both proued and declared to my hande 5 The tales that you tell out of Gregory and Bede may be hearde as they are tolde and beleeued as they deserue but that you make the opinion of purgatory such an article of faith that no article with more force of the spirite nor with more graue authority was set forth sence the beginning of Christian religion and yet neuer taught in the scripture that is by no meanes to be borne with all If Sathan hath labored to plante that error which is most blasphemous against Christ and occasion of most licentious wickednesse in all them that professe Christ and beleue it if Sathan I saye hath bent all his force to plante such an error by which his kingdome is so much aduaunsed no wise man can maruell Of like leuen it is that you affirme That neuer nation was conuerted to the fayth but it had purgatory taught by worde and confirmed by miracle O impudent affirmer Of so many nations as S. Luke recordeth in the Actes of the Apostles to haue bene conuerted to the fayth name one vnto which you can proue that purgatory was taught eyther by worde or miracle But to be sure you name all euen of the primitiue Church when that aboundant floude of faith was spred ouer all countries But when the proofe commeth you leape but 600. yeares from Christ to Gregories dialogues from which time I will not deny but you may haue great store of such stuffe as you haue miracles now in Flaunders of the honest woman of the olde Baylye in London and such like 6 But nowe for vs that through Gods greate mercy be Catholikes let vs for Christes sake so vse the benefit of this our approued faith to the amendement of our owne liues that where no argument will serue nor authority of Scripture or doctour can conuerte the deceiued yet the fructe of this doctrine shewed by good life and vertuous conuersatioÌ„ may by Christes mercy moue them Let the priest consider that this heuy iudgement must beginne at the house of God as S. Peter affirmeth and so doth S. Ambrose proue it must do In whome for the dignity of his honorable ministery as much more holynesse is requisite so a more straite reckening must be required Let the Lay man learne for the auoyding of greater daunger in the presence of the highe Iudge willingly to submit him selfe to Gods holy ministers VVho haue in most ample maner a commission of executing Christes office in earth both for pardoning and punishment of sinne that suffering here in his Church sentence and iuste iudgement for his offensies he may the rather escape our fathers greuous chastisement in the life to come Therefore I woulde exhorte earnestly the minister of God that in geuing penaunce he would measure the medecine by the maladie aptly discerning the limitation of the punishment by the quantity of the faulte not vsing like lenity in closing vp of euery wounde For they shall not be blamelesse surely that do the worke of Gods iudgement committed to their discretion negligently nor the simple soule that lookes to be set free from further paine can by the acceptation of such vnâ—quall remedies auoide the scourge of iudgement prepared except he him selfe voluntaryly receiue as I woulde wishe all men shoulde some further satisfaction by the fructes of penaunce that of his owne accorde he may helpe the enioyned penalty and so by Gods grace turne away the great greefe to come Excellently well and to our purpose saide S. Cyprian in the fourth booke of his epistles talking of such offenders as were not charged with penaunce sufficiently or otherwise negligently fulfilled the same by these wordes We shall not herein any thing be preiudiciall to Gods iudgement that is to come that he may not allow and ratifie our sentence if he finde the perfect penaunce of the party so require But if the offender haue deluded vs by fayned accomplishing of his penaunce then God who will not be deluded because he beholdeth the hearte of man shall geue iudgement of such thinges as were hidde from vs And so our Lorde will amende the sentence of his seruauntes VVhere this doctour seemeth to allude to the accustomed name of Purgatory which S. Augustine and other do often call the amending fire Though it may well be that he here calleth the contrary sentence of iudgement to eternall damnation vpon the impenitent sinner whome the priest because he coulde not discerne the fayned hypocrasy of his externall dealing from the inward sorow of hearte pronounced to be absolued of his sinnes it may stande I say that he termeth that contrary sentence of God the correction or the amendement of the priestes iudgement How so euer that be it is a worke of singular grace and discretion so to deale with the spirituall patient that he haue no nede of the amending fire 6 Here is an exhortation vnto Papistes first to the priestes that they will shew the fructe of this doctrine in their conuersation For my parte â— am perswaded if feare of eternall torments in Hell that God threatneth by his scriptures will not terrify them the fayned paines of purgatory which they can by their owne Masses and other like merits auoide will not restraine them The laye men are exhorted to submitte them selues to the priestes who haue such an ample commission that they may both pardon and punish sinne euen as Christ him selfe did vpon earth But what auayleth this submission when the ignorant or negligent priest that weigheth not the penaunce in euen ballance with the offence doth not by his absolution or pardonning take awaye one houres torments of purgatory as both M. Allen him selfe in effect confesseth and the Maister of the sentence also teacheth vnto whome M. Allen hath bene so good a scholler that he hath borowed of him not onely his iudgement but in diuerse places his very wordes also he hath translated Of the nature and condicion of Purgatory fire the difference of their state that be in it from the damned in Hell vvith the conclusion of this booke CAP. XIII 1 IF any curious heade list of me demaunde where or in what parte of the worlde this place of punishment is or what nature that fire is of that worketh by such vehement force vppon a spirituall substance I will not by longe declaration thereof feede his curiosity because he may haue both the example and the like doubt of Hell it selfe and many other workes of God moe The learned may see that question at large debated in the bookes of the City of God and in
arme our selues against the like aduersaires of trueth with his minde in such other points of weight as in his dayes were not doubted of which yet might fall in question by the contentious wittes of many that can not quiet them selues in the holsome doctrine of Christes Church Amongest other things what this holy mans minde was concerning the vtility vsage of prayers and sacrifice for the deade and who were the institutors thereof thou shall now heare I will recite but a parte of his heauenly talke though the whole make wholy for our purpose Although sayth this holy doctour he that Christianly is hense in faith departed be hanged in the ayer and his body vnburied yet after thy prayers made to God sticke not to light lampe and taper at his sepulchre for these thinges be not onely acceptable to God but are rewarded For the oyle and waxe be to him as an holocaust or a sacrifice to be consumed by fire but that vnbloudy hoste is a propitiation and remission to the partie It may seeme by his wordes that when by occasion of punishment or otherwise any person was vnburied yet there was made some hearse or monumēt where his freinds lighted tapers as they doe at this daye and procured the holy Masse which Athanasius calleth the Vnbloudy hoste or sacrifice to be celebrated in his behalfe for so I take that when he sayth that a man being hong in the ayer may haue tapers and Masse at his sepulchre though some seeke an other meaninge which may well stande too and it skilleth not for our purpose for so much is plaine that in Athanasius his dayes the sacrifice was called and counted propitiatory euen for the deade But nowe a litle afterwarde in the same oration he instruteth vs for the first authors and institutors of this vsage in the vnbloudy sacrifice and in the burialls of Christian men All these holy thinges sayth he the Apostles of Christ those heauenly preachers and scholars of our Lorde the first orderers of our sacrifice charged to be obserued in the memories and anniuersaires of the departed c. he calleth the Apostles Curatores Sacrificiorum as you woulde saye men appointed to take ordre for all thinges perteyning to the solemne ministerie of the greate and high misterie As in the Psalme the spirituall gouernours are named Ordinatores testamenti Dei super sacrificia The prouisours of Gods testament touching the sacrifices The residue of his holy wordes thou may finde in Damascens oration of the departed where he recyteth both the Gregories of the Greeke church S. Denyse and S. Chrysostom too which writers doe rather serue my turne nowe then the Latines because they may put vs out of doubt for the vsage of the Greeke and other Churches which afterwarde by schisme fell together from the true worshippe of God into diuers errors That we may knowe those same countries vnder the gouernment of these excellent blessed men to haue obserued the same things which to their owne eternall miserie and decaye of their Church and countries they afterwarde contemned For their dissension and diuision both in this point others of no lesse importaunce hath procured Gods vengeaunce so much that nowe they haue almost no Church at all as we may haue right good cause to feare what will become of vs that followe their steppes in such pointes as in them haue duely deserued Gods greuous plaques 4 When you name Athanasius and thinke we shoulde be so sore afrayd of his name you haue good reason for you allege nothing else of him but his name I haue often tolde you Damascens report eyther for his corrupt iudgement or his cracked credit is nothing regarded of vs And euen the authoritie of Athanasius without the worde of God is the authoritie of god And as Augustine sayth of Cyprian we count not all his writing for canonicall Scriptures but we iudge them by the canonicall Scriptures The creede commonly called Athanasius creede although it be very godly and agreeable to the holy Scriptures yet by the iudgement of the best learned was complyed by some later writer then Athanasius As for the plague of the Greeke Church which M. Allen iudgeth to haue fallen vpon them for their departing from the Church of Rome he iudgeth both falsely and vnreasonably For what schisme was the Church of Africa first plaged by the Vandales that were Arians and afterward vtterly subuerted by the Saracens I doubt not but iustly for their sinnes but not for leauing the Romish Church 5 Amongest other for that Chrysostoms authority is exceding graue I will let you see his opinion for the institution of these beneficiall relieuinges of the departeds paine These be his wordes Let vs sieke out all meanes whereby we may best helpe our brethern departed let vs for their sakes bestowe the most present remedie that is to saye almes and oblation for thereby to them ensueth great commoditie gaine and profit for it was not rashly nor without greate cause prouided and to Gods Church by his disciples full of wisedome deliuered and decried that in the dreadfull misteries there shoulde be especiall prayers made by the priest for all those that sleepe in faith For it is a singular benefit to them These were Chrysostoms wordes whereby not onely the trueth of the cause and first authors of the practise be opened but that there is wounderfull benefite to the parties for whome prayers be so made in the holy sacrifice The which thing our forefathers well knewe when they were so earnest after their departure to haue a memory at the holy altar Now adayes heresie hath cankered euen the very deuotion of Catholikes who although they thinke it to be true that Gods Church teacheth herein yet the zele of procuring these meanes is nothing so great as the importaunce of the cause requireth But if they note well those carefull admonitions of all these blessed fathers they shall perceiue that euery time that Christes holy bloude is represented vnto God in the Masse for the departed they feele a present benefite and release of their paines they doe reioyse sayth holy Athanasius when the vnbloudy hoste is offered for them The old fathers to put a difference betwixt the sacrificing of Christes owne body vpon the crosse and the same vpon the altar in the Church doe lightly terme this way of offering the vnbloudy sacrifice and the thinge offered which is Christes owne blessed body they call likewise the host vnbloudy And Chrysostome neuer putting any doubt of the first authors of offering for the deade proueth that it is exceding beneficiall to the deceased because the Apostles full of Gods spirite and wisedome woulde else neuer with such care haue commaunded this holy action to be done for them A lasse a lasse fo◠our deare freindes departed that they must lacke this comforte But wo euerlasting to them that are the cause of so much miserie 5 Chrysostome can no more proue that