be and I not hear it I forgot not wholly the Contention with Mr. Holdcraft about the altering of the Reading of it from what it is ordinarily in our English Bibles Rep. Here thou hast granted that thou knowest that he did not read it as it is in our Bibles whereby thou hast contradicted him who saith he read it no other Way then it is in our Bibles and thus these two Brethren in Iniquity contradict and confound one another But saith J. O. I call God for a Record upon my Soul that I know nothing of this you say But Joseph I must tell thee I do greatly question whether thou now speakest Truth or no but however I shall leave that to God and thy own Conscience But if this be true thou dost say that thou knowest nothing of it hast thou done wisely to call me a Lyar for saying that that I know to be true and have several Witnesses to prove it and thou say'st thou know'st nothing of it then I tell thee thou had'st been wiser and honester if thou had'st held thy Tongue and now tellest us thou thinkest thou had'st thy Hearing as well as I c. This is like thy Brother who saith in page 3. observing as I thought in some of these People that Lightness c. and page 13. where F. H. speaks concerning the Grace of God Now take all men here for every particular man I have thought it not agreeing to the Rule of Faith I tell you both that your Thoughts have deceived you and your Folly is made manifest and whereas you thought to have done proudly in exalting your Names and dark Imaginations above the Light and Truth of God and to have insulted over them that believe therein and are led and guided thereby your Weakness is thereby made manifest and your Deceit laid open Page 14. Joseph Oddey saith I appeal to all that were present whether any such Thing was spoken only I desire to know their Names According to his Desire here is a Testimony under the Hands of some of them that were there and many more remember the same and are also ready to witness it if there were Need for it This we testifie whose Names are here under-written who were Eye and Ear-Witnesses to what was said at the Meeting at Thriploe the 15th Day of the 2d Moneth 76. that Francis Holdcraft when he read Tit. 2.11 left out the Word ALL and said it was not in the Greek John Harvey John Claydon John Butcher Giles Waklen Samuel Reader John Salmon Richard Web Matthew Duy Jonathan Johnson Henry Bostock John Cathen John Love Thomas Miller Robert Salmon And now concerning the Grace of God spoken of in Tit. 2.11 which these Men are so angry with me for detecting their Folly therein and now see what he saith and hath given under his Hand as his Thoughts and Judgment concerning that Scripture and compare his Words and F. H. in page 13 in their own Book with what they spake concerning tâ—e Grace of God and its Appearance that Day at Thriploe which we have given a true Account of in Print whereby all may see what Wrong we have done them in saying that of them which here they have spoken as much themselves Page 14. J. O. saith Thus the Grace of God though it brings Salvation to all men where the Gospel comes in Respect of the Proffer and Tender thereof yet it doth not appear to all men in that Largeness you contend for And in page 13. F. H. saith concerning the second of Titus 11. Now take all men here for every particular man I have thought it not agreeing to the Analogy and Rule of Faith to say The Grace of God that brings Salvation hath appeared or shined on all men In the same page J.O. calls me a Lyar for saying that he said that some Children before they are born were guilty of Original Sin and were Vessels of Wrath and for Destruction Rep. Which I am able to prove he did at that Time say and hath at other times often declared the same and further hath here declared as his Judgment page 14. toward the latter End Children while they are in the Womb before they are born so soon as they have Life and are a living Soul are guilty of Original Sin I own this for Truth c. Now the same Scripture that proves them to be guilty of Original Sin proves them to be Children of Wrath and under Condemnation By this all may see that to be his Judgment that he calls me a Lyar for reporting of him whereby his Envy and Folly is made manifest and my Innocency cleared and out of his own Mouth that is proved which I have charged him with so that it is proved that this Man hath calâ—ed me a Lyar out of Envy and not that I have wronged him which Doctrine of theirs is false and altogether contrary to the Mind and Will of God declared in the Scriptur s of Truth as I told them before that is to say that Children are guilty of Sin before they are born and under Condemnation and are Vessels of VVrath which to say is a Damnable Doctrine and altoge her contrary to the Equal and Just VVayes of God who saith Are not my Wayes Equal and there is no Scripture that saith Children are guilty of Original Sin and it is a dark Imagination for any to believe or affirm it and the Scripture proves the contrary Ezek. 18.2 The Soul that sinneth it shall dye the Son shall not bear the Iniquity of the Father c. Jer. 31.29 They shall say no more the Fathers have eaten sour Grapes and the Childrens Teeth are set on Edge but every Man shall dye for his own Iniquity he that eateth his Teeth shall be set on Edge S. C. Pag. 15. line 27. Joseph Oddey bids me ask Henry Bostock whom saith he knows our Doctrine whom I think would have done us so much Right as to have told you what our Doctrine is concerning Children before they are born And now here follows a Testation under the Hand of Henry Bostock concerning the Doctrine of Francis Houlcraft and Joseph Oddey which is That some Children before they are born are in a State of Damnation This I have known to have been their Principle this Seven Years and at that Meeting at Thriploe Joseph Oddey did affirm the same Henry Bostock Now see these Mens CONFUSION and how they CONTRADICT Themselves F. H. PAge 5. line 16. I Constantly affirm that All Men are by Christ who is the true God and eternal Life enlightned with the Light of Nature F. H. pag. 7. lin 4. Who clothes their False Christ and Cursed Idol the Light which is in All Men by Nature F. H. pag. 7. towards the latter end saith Christ the Word made Flesh enlightens Every Man with Natural Knowledge and Light F. H. pag 8. lin 5. The Light which is in every man is Darkness F. H. pag. 10. lin 5. I call to
mind what one of you one Henry Bostock an Apostate said to me God forbid that I should own such a God that hath Hands and Feet F. H. saith towards the latter end of this page There is but one living and true God Everlasting Without Body Parts or Passions c. F. H. pag. 11. towards the latter end That we never said that any Children before they were born or any else were in a state of Damnation till with Dives they lift up their Eyes in Hell J. O. pag. 16. lin 3. I speak of Children before they be born the same Scripture that prove them to be guilty of Original Sin proves them to be Children of Wrath and under Condemnation F. H. pag. 13. lin 13. My Friends may know for some time my Reading that Word no other then what is in the English Bible J. O. pag. 14. lin 14. I forgot not wholely the Contention with Mr. Houldcraft about the altering of the Reading from what it is ordinarily in our English Bibles Their Controversie stated here is little else but Fictions Which we have plainly made appear behold their Contradictions The Truth of what is here declared wee 'l certainly Maintain And turn your Cursed Forgeries upon your Backs again Shall Impudence with open Face thus act and not be blamed Who have thus with such foul Disgrace God's Glorious Light defamed Shall Forgeries be counted Zeal or Lyes upon us fall No no the Power of God we feel to Triumph over All Jacob Bakeâ— Here followeth a Testimony against the False Doctrines asserted by these Men who say that Children before they are born are Vessels of Wrath and under Condemnation because of their Fathers Sin which Judgment of theirs is here detected by the Scriptures of Truth and the contrary proved and their wresting the Scriptures discovered THis is the Testimony that God Almighty hath put into my Heart to bear with many more Brethren That God who is rich in Mercy and desires not that any should perish but that all might turn from the Evil of their Wayes and live that the Day of his Power is now in this our Day Age and Generation dawned and broken forth which John saw in the Vision of the Almighty when he was in the Spirit by which the Things of God were revealed unto him who said Rev. 14.6 I saw an Angel fly in the midst of Heaven having the Everlasting Gospel to preach unto them that dwell upon the Earth and to every Nation and Kindred and Tongue and People which Time is now come in which the Lord's Power and Holy Spirit moves upon our Hearts to preach the Word of Reconciliation unto all men which is according to the ancient Testimony of the Servants of God and Ministers of Christ which went before us whereby it appears according to the Scriptures of Truth that the Gospel which we preach is the same that was begun to be preached by the Lord Jesus and was confirmed by them that heard him 1 Tim. 3.4 For this is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour who would have all men to be saved and come to the Knowledge of the Truth And this is the Gospel that the True Ministers now preach which is Glad-tidings unto all that are in their Sins That there is Mercy with the Lord for them all that they may be saved For Christ is come a Light into the World that whosoever believes in him should not perish And The Grace of God that brings Salvation appears unto all men to teach them to deny Vngodliness and whosoever bows to the Teachings of it shall be saved And as Christ stood up in the great Day of the Feast saying If any Man thirst let him come unto me and drink whereby it appears that God's Love is unto all Men and blessed be the Lord there is a Remnant whom God by the Light of his dear Son that shineth in our Hearts he hath brought us to see the same and hath inlarged our Hearts by Faith in his Power to publish Peace by Jesus Christ unto all Men whereby the VVords of Christ are fulfilled Joh. 3.14 As Moses lifted up the Serpent in the Wilderness so must the Son of Man be lifted up whereby the Folly of these Men is made manifest and their false Doctrines detected who would tye up the Love of God in Jesus Christ to but a few a certain Number of People now see Numb 21.9 whether that Serpent of Brass that Christ speaks of that was set upon a Pole was only for one or two Tribes of Israel to be healed by as these Men vainly imagine concerning the Love of God now manifested in Christ which they say is but for a few if so that was not a true Figure of the Love of God in Christ or there is a Shortness in Christ the Substance of performing to and for Man that which figured it out if these Mens Doctrines be true for it came to pass that if a Serpent had bit any Man when he beheld the Serpent of Brass he lived Now these Men will readily grant that all are bit or stung by the old Enemy of Man the Serpent that beguiled Eve in the Beginning but they have not so much Faith as to believe that there is Vertue enough in Christ to cure us all or if there be it is not intended for all let such Teachers hold their Tongues that are out of the Faith that was and is delivered unto the Saints and Ministers of Christ for they give an uncertain Sound and are but like sounding Brass and tinkling Cymbals who make a Din in Peoples Ears but do not reach to the VVitness of God in the Hearts and Consciences of Men and VVomen who have not received that Commission that Christ gave unto his Disciples Mark 16.15 who bad his Disciples go and preach the Gospel unto every Creature which Gospel was Glad Tidings to the poor and the opening of the Prison Doors to them that were bound and Light to them that sate in Darkness and in a word to give Knowledge of Salvation and of a Physician that hath Virtue in him to cure all Diseases that come upon Mans Heart and Soul because of Sin and this is freely tendered unto all Men that will believe in him and look unto him And now whereas these Men make a Noise about a State of Children being under Condemnation because of their Fathers Sins which Saying of theirs is altogether contrary to the Scriptures of Truth Jer. 31.30 And concerning Children Christ saith Of such is the Kingdom of Heaven and further saith Whosoever receiveth not the Kingdom as a little Child he shall in no Wise enter therein which Words do plainly imply Children to be in an innocent State and free from Sin and Evil for the Scripture saith Nothing that defileth can enter into God's Kingdom But J. O. having a Desire to prove Children Sinners before they are born he brings iâ— Eph. 2.3 Among whom also we all had our
and whosoever receives this Word and Light into their Hearts and continue therein it will bow their Hearts unto the true and living God and keep them from following or worshipping any false God and they shall and do fear following such Teachers who cry Lo here is Christ or lo there is Christ in Carnal Ordinance or in Outward Observation but through waiting upon God in the Exercise of their Hearts and Minds with this precious Light and Word of Faith they know it to be unto them as it was unto David a Light unto their Feet and a Lamp unto their Paths As concerning G. F. the Younger and William Smith whom I knew very well and have this Testimony to bear for them that they were faithful Men in their Day and were well accomplished with Wisdom Zeal and Courage to declare God's Truth and to publish the blessed Gospel as they had received of the Lord and were not ashamed nor afraid to confess Christ to be the true Light before Men whose Testimony we own Page the 7. Line 1. F. H. saith Be astonished O ye Heavens and be ye utterly frighted rend your Hearts and not your Garments that hear these and the like Blasphemies which fills the Books and Speeches of this Generation who cloaâ—h their false Christ and cursed Idol the Light which is in all men by Nature with the secret Names and divine Attributes c. Rep. Now mark this Man's Deceit and Baseness towards us and the precious Truth of our God which we profess which is pure and spiritual and comes from God the Father of Spirits and Light and is the same Yesterday to Day and forever God blessed forever which he calls a Natural Light and a Cursed Idol saith he the Light in all Men if this Man was not darkened with Envy and Malice he would never manifest so much Madness as he doth and to be revenged of us he rails and blasphemes against the true God and Jesus Christ for mark all that read these Lines which are his own Words saith he Who cloath their false Christ and cursed Idol the Light which is in all men And now see what John s Testimony is of Christ John 1.9 the Words are these That was the true Light that lighteth every man that cometh into the World and again John 8.12 And this is the God and Christ whom thou hast cursed which is a Light in all Men whereby thou hast manifested by thy Words that the Spirit of God doth not dwell in thee For no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed 1 Cor. 12.3 Now if this Man thinks that he hath not called Jesus accursed let him tell us setting God and Christ aside what it is that is Light in all Men or doth give Light unto all Men let us see what he saith with his own Tongue and writes with his own Hand of Christ page 5. Line 16. saith he I constantly affirm that all men are by Christ who is the true God and Eternal Life enlightned with the Light of Nature which saith he in page 7. is a cursed Idol And thus his Confusion is made manifest and he to be one of the Merchants of Babylon Rep. He saith in Page 5. of our Book he pretended plainly to confess the Christ but he tells us that he will not believe me and then asks Whether the Virgin Mary 's Son be the Christ that we preach he answers his own Question and saith No like his Brother Thomas Hiâ—ks who made a Dialogue feigning and pretending of A Discourse between a Christian and a Quaker which in Truth and Reality was no such matter but himself stated what Question he pleased and answered them how he would but this know both Presbyterians and Baptists and all others which combine together against the Truth and to withstand the Appearance of God in this the Day of his Power and although Hand joyn in Hand yet the Wicked shall not go unpunished And I tell thee Thou hast made an ungodly Answer for us but however I have in that and in this made a true Confession of my Faith in Christ and have the Evidence of a Good Conscience in what I have done and whether thou â—r any other who envieth me for the Truth 's sake will believe me or not that is little matter to me F. H. asks a Question pag. 6. What say you of John 17.1 These words spake Jesus and lift up his Eyes to Heaven Rep. I say it was well in Christ who was and is in Heaven John 3.13 but that is no Proof that every Pharisee that imitates him doth well or is accepted Remember what Christ saith of thy Brother Pharisee who justified himself and was condemned of Christ but the poor Publican would not so much as lift up his Eyes to Heaven but smote upon his Breast saying God be Merciful to me a Sinner I tell you saith Christ this Man went down to his House rather justified Pag. 11. F. H. saith S. C. tells another notorious Lye that these men had declared That some Children before they were born were in a State of Damnation And this makes way for another Abominable Lye where he brings in Mr. Oddey All fell in Adam and so Children before they are born are Vessels of Wrath and for Destruction We testifie the Truth that we never said that any Children before they were born or any else were in a state of Damnation till with Dives they lift up their Eyes in Hell Rep. As to thy soul Mouth and bitter Speech saying I Lye in those two Passages that I have related of your words and Doctrine that you say and preach That some Children are in a state of Damnation or guilty of Condemnation before they are born that I know and am able to prove if you had denyed it but Joseph Oddey hath confessed it as I shall make it appear so that your Railing against me is manifest to be out of Envy and to cover your selves to the People For you have preached that in the dark which you are ashamed should be brought to the Light and thinking to cover thy self thou runnest into another Extream and sayst We testifie the Truth that we never said that any Children before they were born or any else were in a state of Damnation till with Dives they lift up their Eyes in Hell What Mad Bedlam Stuff is this Was ever the like heard of by one that would be called a Minister of Christ and doth not know that the Vessels of Wrath are fitted for Destruction through Disobedience and Rebellion against God before they be cast into Hell But Francâ—â— remember thy self Didst thou never say That none were Damned nor in a state of Damnation How often have you pronounced that Sentence There remains no more Sacrifice for Sin but a certain fearful looking for of Judgment and fiery Indignation of the Lord against Henry Bostock And how much hast thou said lâ—ss of the Quakers in general Whereby
Conversations in Times past in the Lust of our Flâ—sh following the Desires of the Flesh and of the Mind and were by Nature the Children of Wrath as well as others now all may see how this man wrests the Scriptures to prove their dark Imaginations concerning Children being in a State of Condemnation before they are born now see and consider whether Children before they are born can commit such Things as this Scripture saith that these Ephesians were guilty of before they were converted unto God he brings Rom. 3.9 again 9.33 and Tit. 3.5 6. where all may see whether these Scriptures speak any Thing of Children before they are born being guilty of Sin which he hath a Mind to strain them to but it 's plain to the contrary and speaks of the States of Men and Women and not of Children whereby his Folly is made manifest And this further I ask these men which would have Children before they are born to be Children of Wrath because of their Fathers Sins which they are innocent of where that Scripture is that saith that God ever condemned the Righteous or innocent for the Wicked's sake as they darkly say that God condemns the Innocent Children for their Fathers Sins nay the contrary is easily to be proved that God hath and doth many Times spare the wicked for the sake of the Righteous which is far from destroying the guiltless for the guilty sake so that the Judge of the whole Earth doth right Things Gen. 18.25 So the Way of the Lord is equal who sheweth Mercy without Respect of Persons to all that fear his Name and obey his Grace and his Judgments are just upon all that rebel against the Appearance of his Grace and hate the Light that manifestly shines upon all so that Man's Destruction is of himself for want of receiving Christ the Son of his Love into his Heart who is come a Light into the World and is knocking at every Ones Doâ—r for the awakening of them out of their Sins and that he might purge their Consciences from Dead Works and renew their Minds and enlarge their Hearts to serve the living and true God And as conâ—â—rning Children before they are born they are doubtless in a State of Innocency and after they are born until they come to that Age as to understand Good and Evil then choosing the Evil and refusing knowingly that which is Good that contracts the Guilt upon their Conscience whereby they come under the State of Reproof for it and Condemnation if they continue in that which is Evil which is just upon them for their own Sins and not for their Fathers which they never committed which agrees with the Word of the Lord spoken by his Prophet Jer. 31.30 That every one shall dye for his own Sins he that eateth his Teeth shall be set on Edge so as the Lord saith and complains of a rebellious Generation As the Children grew up so they went from me So that it is plain that People bring forth Fruit according to the Seed which they receive into their Hearts and yield up the Strength of their Desires unto they that receive the good Seed that God hath sown and yield up the Strength of their Desires unto it they bring forth Fruits unto Holiness which Seed Christ saith is sown in all Sorts of Grounds but now who doth not watch unto this blessed Seed and Grace of God the Appearance of which is unto all without respect of Persons but like the Sluggard slumbers away the Time and doth not watch unto the Light of Christ Jesus to lead them keep them preserve them out of the Wicked One's Snares in them the Wicked One sows his Seed which grows up and they in that bring forth Evil Fruits and thus we see the Scriptures fulfilled according as it is written Luke 6.45 A Good Man out of the Good Treasure that is in his Heart bringeth forth Good Things and the Evil Man out of the Evil Treasure of his Heart bringeth forth Evil Things And therefore let every one now examine themselves and see what Root bares them for it is Fruits of Holiness that the Lord looks for and requires ar the Hand of every one which he hath made and given Life and Breath unto and for that End that all may bring forth Fruit to his Glory he hath given unto every man a Manifestation of his own Spirit to profit withal as saith the Apostle 1 Cor. 12.7 and a Measure of his own Light to be a Guide unto them which Spirit and Light appears within Man and Woman whereby that saying is fulfilled which the Apostle speaâ—â— of Rom. chap. 1. vers 19. That which may be known of God is manifest in them And now let none be discouraged by these Blind Guides who say That the Grace of God did not appear unto All Men and now say That it doth not agree with their Rule of Faith to speak and to believe as the Apostle believed and spake as you may see under their own Hands And thus God hath cleared the Innocent from their Slanders and I have faithfully Detected their False Doctrines and asserted the Truth as it is in Jesus who am a Servant to all in the Truth S. Cater THE END