the naturall light of humane reason can afford which what a glow-worme it is and how subiect to mistaking who sees not Aristotle whose eyes were as sharpe sighted and peircing into these matters as ever any mans yet confesseth we are but owly-eyed in them and the Pyrrhonian Philosophers saw so much vncertainty in most things that they grew to maintaine an impossibility of knowing any thing So vaine is man in his imaginations and so full of darkenesse is his foolish heart that when they professe themselues to be most wise they become the starkest fooles But the truths of this divine science being supernaturall haue their certainty from a supernaturall light even the revelation of Gods spirit which can neither deceiue nor bee deceiued according to that of our Sauiour Flesh and blood hath not revealed this vnto thee but my Father which is in Heauen This is the light shining in the darke vntill the day dawne the day-starre rising in our hearts the Certitude of Faith which is simply and absolutely so because no falsehood can possibly be vnder it and being as Chrysostome saith more firme then all Demonstration as standing not in the enticeing speech of mans wisdome but in plaine evidence of the spirit and of Power True it is that this our Science sometime receiueth from humane wisdome yet not because shee needs it but because wee neede it nor for any defect or vncertainty in it but for the weaknesse of our vnderstanding which by those things that are knowne to naturall reason is more easily brought to vnderstand those things which are aboue reason For otherwise she is so farre from receiuing her Principles from any other Science that shee either allowes or controls all their rules and maxims as being their soveraigne Queene and Mistresse And thus much of the excellency of the Science of Divinity now of the Efficacy of the Ministry As is the man so is his strength saith the Proverbe in like manner as is our science so is our Ministry that the most noble therefore this the most powerfull That is most powerfull which worketh most effectually to atchieue ' its end and the more difficult the end is to bee attained the greater is the power that attaineth it Now what is the end of the Ministry It is as Saint Paul saith to build vp the body of Christ to open mens eyes and to turne them from darkenesse to light and from the power of Satan vnto God that they may receiue forgiuenesse of sins and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith in Christ that is in a word to make men partakers both of the state of grace in this life and of eternall glory in the life to come An employment as of highest consequence so of greatest difficulty that Saint Paul wondreth who might be sufficient for it Chrysostome saith that the Angels themselues would tremble to vndergoe the burthen Yet hath it pleased the wisdome of God in earthly vessels to convey vnto vs these heavenly treasures and to make the Ministry of weake mortall men mighty in operation able to pull downe strong holds and to cast downe imaginations and every high thing that exalteth it selfe against the knowledge of God and to captiue every thought to the obedience of Christ. Hence is it that Esay calleth the word of God the arme of the Lord and Saint Paul the preaching of the Gospell the power of God vnto salvation Hence that God himselfe affirmeth that his word shall never returne vnto him void but shall accomplish that which he will and prosper in the thing whereto he sends it Is it is not strange that the wolfe should dwell with the lambe and the leopard with the kid and calfe and the lion and the fat beast lye together and a little child lead them That the cow and the beare should feede together and their young ones lye downe together and the Lyon eate straw like the Oxe That the sucking child should play on the hole of the aspe and the weaned child put his hand on the Cockatrices den and all without either hurt or danger Yet all this is done through the knowledge of the Lord and by the power of our Ministry This is it that filleth vp every vally and levelleth every mountaine and hill that maketh the crooked straight and the rough waies smooth that all flesh may see the salvation of God The meaning of which allegoricall speech I cannot better expresse then in the words of Lactantius giue mee the man that is cholericke a railer vnruly and with a few words of God I will make him as meeke as a lambe Giue mee him that is greedy covetous gripple and I will make him liberall and giue bountifully with his owne hands giue me him that is fearefull of paine and death eftsoones shall he contemne his gibbets fires and Phalaris bull Giue me the lecher the adulterer the taverne haunter and by and by shalt thou see him sober chast and continent Giue me the cruell and bloud thirsty man and his fury shall soone be turned into clemency Finally giue me the vniust man the foole the sinner and forthwith hee shall be iust and wise and innocent Such and so great is the power of this divine wisdome that it quickly changeth a man and transformes him into another shape so as ye can hardly know him to be the same Neither let any man thinke that these are but words no they haue ordinarily beene and are daily done Did not Ionas with one sermon humble the pride of the King of Niniveh and all that mighty citty into sackcloth and ashes Did not Peter at his first preaching to the Iewes pricke them to the heart and at once adde about three thousand soules vnto the Church Did not Paul discoursing of iustice and temperance and iudgement to come make Felix the governour although a heathen yet to tremble But what speake I of particulars which are infinite Never did Alexander or Cesar with their huge hosts of armed men win so great victories or erect such troopes of honour to themselues as did the holy Apostles vnto the name of Christ. They were in number but twelue for the most part poore fishermen and vnlettered and despised in the eye of the world and yet within a few yeares armed only with the sword of the mouth and the power of this Ministry they conquered the whole world and subdued it to the obedience of Christ. And whom they subdued they so setled in the Faith that rather then they would renounce it they were content to endure most exquisite torments and to loose a thousand liues In like manner hath the Ministry hitherto prevailed and shall successiuely vnto the worlds end How many families of Philosophers haue heretofore failed without successor How many sects of Hereticks are vanished and melted away as dew before the sunne But the Church
fearfull ends And indeede to what end hath God put into the heart of man this passion of feare but to decline and avoid all such euills as would destroy him or afflict him Take away feare and men will 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 despise all danger and run headlong into all mischiefe but feare is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of a preseruing nature as saith the philosopher inclining and perswading man carefully to keepe himselfe from dangers If then to come to an issue yee will not worke mischiefe vnnaturally vnto your owne selues if yee will avoide the Magistrates fury if yee will not incurre the rigour of the law nor fall vpon the edge of the sword of justice yee must needs be subiect But what need will some man say so much to feare the Wrath of the Magistrate May not a man hide his counsells so deepe and carry his actions so cunningly that nor witnesse nor Iudge shall know them If they come to light and bee discouered doth not greatnesse breake through lawes as wasps doe through cobwebs May not judges jury witnesses by friends fauour bribes be corrupted Are pardons impossible to bee obtained from Princes Nay suppose the worst that the penalty of the law can by no meanes be escaped what care they for fines and amercements who are content to beggar themselues to enioy their pleasures What for shame and ignominy who are growne impudent in all wickednesse What for death who count it worse then death not to liue as they list and to bee barred from their desires For there haue beene who haue said moriar modo regnet let mee dye so he may be King and aut Caesar aut nihil an Emperour or nothing To all this I answere briefly first trust not vnto secrecy but remember what wise Solomon saith Curse not the King no not in thy thought neither the great one in thy bedchamber for the foule of the Heaven will carry the voyce and that which hath wings shall declare the matter Secondly hope not for impunity many as great as gratious as wealthy as thou haue failed thereof and how knowest thou but one time or other thou maist meete with one who will accept nor thy person nor thy fee but will say vnto thee with Saint Peter thy mony perish with thee Lastly if any haue so farre put off naturall affection as not to feare Wrath chusing rather to fall into the hands of justice then to be restrained from his wickednesse let such a one know that what Wrath cannot yet Conscience should worke in him For here it must freely bee confessed that Wrath of it selfe is not sufficient it striketh at the branches not the roote and endeavoureth to reforme outward actions but reacheth not vnto the cause which is inward corruption Which remaining in vs Wrath happily may make vs more wary in offending but cannot worke in vs a loue of goodnesse and a desire not to offend at all Wherefore God in his deepe wisdome hath thought it good to binde vs vnto subiection not by a single but double tie and vnto Wrath to adde Conscience Yee must needs be subiect not only for wrath but also for conscience Conscience is that facultie or power of the Practicall vnderstanding in man whereby he is priuy to all his actions whether they be immanent and conceaued within as thoughts or emanant and issuing forth as his words and workes This Conscience is then said to be bound when by him who hath power and authority ouer it it is charged to performe its dutie that is to beare witnesse of all our actions vnto God and according to the qualitie of them to excuse or accuse vs for that these are the duties of conscience plainely appeareth by that of S. Paul their conscience bearing witnesse and their thoughts accusing or excusing This charge is then laid vpon the Conscience after that by the same authority man himselfe is bound for man being free Conscience also is free but man being bound by a law Conscience stands bound also But who is the binder of the conscience God without question He is the Law-giuer saith S. Iames that can both saue and destroy and he as S. Iohn saith is greater then the conscience But can the Magistrate also by his lawes binde the conscience Papists attribute vnto vs the Negatiue that they cannot themselues hold the Affirmatiue that they can and warrant it by this my Text Yee must bee subiect for conscience Vpon this plaine song sundry of them descant very pleasantly but none plaies the wanton more then Doctor Kellison who inferres that we despoile Princes of authority and superiority and giue subjects good leaue to rebell and revolt that we bring Iudges and Tribunall seats and all lawes into contempt that no Prince can rely on his subjects no subjects on their Prince or fellow subjects in a word that wee take away all society and ciuill conversation To all which I answere breefly First suppose the maine ground were true yet neither can they proue it out of my Text nor doe such absurdities follow therevpon Out of my Text they cannot proue it for that only affirmes that the Conscience is bound but determines not that mans lawes bindeth it Neither doe such absurdities follow for albâ—it wee should deny man to be the binder yet doe wee freely professe that the Conscience is bound which is enough But we answer farther that they much abuse vs for we deny not rem that they binde onely wee differ from them in modo maintaining that they binde not in such manner as they teach They hold that mens lawes binde non minùs guà m lex divina equally with Gods lawes so that were there not any law of God binding to Subiection yet mans law of it selfe and of its owne power would binde This we deny teaching contrarily that humane lawes binde the Conscience not immediatly but mediatly not primarily but secundarily not in themselues of their owne power but in the force and vertue of Divine law Divine law I say whether that which is imprinted in the heart by nature or that which is revealed vnto vs by Scripture both which command Subiection This truth in fâ—w words thus I demonstrate First if mans law immediatly binde the Conscience then is euery transgression thereof without farther respect vnto Gods law a mortall sinne But so it is not for according to St Iohns definition 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sin is a transgression of the law meaning not mans but Gods law only in regard whereof St Augustine saith more expresly Sin is dictum factum concupitum any saying doing or coueting against Gods law Besides if man of himselfe without respect vnto Gods law can binde the conscience then either is he Lord of the conscience and may himselfe conuent it examine it take its testimonie and accordingly proceed to sentence either of life or death both vpon body and soule or he hath power to command God to sit in
our charge and withall in a provident and honest care for those who belong vnto vs and depend vpon vs The fourth and last and chiefest in the knowledge of the true God and in the serving of him in a true manner with a perfect heart and a willing minde which is the summe of Davids Catechisme composed for the vse of his sonne Solomon For intellectuall wisedome S. Paul himselfe was brought vp at the feet of Gamaliel a famous Lawyer that he had well studied the Greeke Poets appeares by his quotations of them vpon severall occasions and had he beene altogether ignorant of Philosophy he could not at Athens at that time the most renowned Vniversity of the world haue incountred the Philosophers both of the Epicureans and the Stoicks being sects of contrary opinions but bending and banding there forces both together against him The first fruits of the Gentiles who by the conduct of a starre came from Persia to adore our Sauiour excelled no doubt in this kinde of wisedome Moses was learned in all the wisedome of the Aegyptians and so we may presume was Daniel in that of the Caldaeans once we are sure that Solomon even in this kinde of wisedome out-stripped all the Children of the East hee was perfectly skil'd in all the properties of vegetables of foules of fishes of beasts and creeping things whereas then the Apostle giues the Colossians a caveat and vs in them that no man spoile vs through Philosophy his meaning is not to checke true Philosophy whereof singular vse may no doubt be made in Divinitie but the errors of Philosophers or their erroneous application of acknowledged truths true Philosophie it selfe being indeed nothing else but a beame of the divine wisedome the dictate of right reason subordinate to supernaturall revelation which I am confident he neuer intended to gaine say or disswade Of Morall wisedome the same Apostle speakes Ephes. 5.15 Walke circumspectly not as fooles but as wise and againe walke in wisedome toward them which are without Col. 4.5 Of Ciuill our Saviour Be wise as Serpents but innocent as Doues wise as Serpents for the iust defence of your selues but innocent as Doues that you doe not iustly offend others Of spirituall the Prophet Dauid the feare of the Lord is the beginning of wisedome as good vnderstāding haue all they that doe thereafter And as wisdome excelleth among all other vertues so doth this kinde of wisedome among all the other kinds Velut inter ignes Luna minores As doth the Moone to vs when in a cleare night shee fills her circle among the lesser starres the rest if they serue as dutifull hand-maids to her may be very vsefull but in case they should rebell against her they may proue dangerous hurts rather then helps as a knife in the hand of a child or a sword of a mad-man As then those other kinds of wisedome if rightly applyed are not to be excluded out of my text so this kinde is it which without all doubt is chiefly vnderstood and which we are chiefly to labour for and that we may so labour for it as we come to the end of our desires the meanes to attaine are these Frequent and fervent prayer to which S. Iames directeth vs If any lacke wisedome let him aske it of God without wavering and it shall be given him A diligent and serious study of the holy scriptures whereby David professeth himselfe to haue beene made wiser then his enemies his teachers his ancients A conversation comfortable to our knowledge To him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the saluation of the Lord A good vse of afflictions schola crucis schola lucis the schoole of affliction is the schoole of wisedome And lastly a daily meditation of our mortality of the shortnesse of our liues and the certaine vncertainty of our deaths Teach vs O Lord to number our dayes that so we may apply our hearts vnto wisedome And as these are the meanes to attaine it so the fruits of it are good workes which our Saviour calleth oile in our lampes and therevpon those Virgins who provided oile in their vessells for the supply of their lampes are by him termed wise and S. Iames more particularly specifies those fruits The wisedome saith he which is from aboue is first pure then peaceable gentle easie to be intreated full of mercy good fruits without partiality without hypocrisie It is so pure as it is likewise peaceable without partiality and without hypocrisie And as these be the pretious fruits so the end of this wisedome is saluation from a Child thou hast knowne the holy Scriptures which are able to make thee wise to saluation In reference both to the fruits aud the end thereof the wise Solomon hath given vs in the third of the Proverbs a singular description of this kinde of wisedome yet not single but accompanied and attended on with the other kinds Happie is the man that findeth wisedome and the man that getteth vnderstanding For the merchandise of it is better then the merchandise of silver and the gaine thereof then the fine gold Shee is more precious then rubies and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared vnto her Length of daies is in her right hand and in her left hand riches and honour Her wayes are wayes of pleasantnesse and all her paths are peace Shee is a tree of life to them that lay hold vpon her and happie is every one that retaineth her Happie is the man that findeth her so he beginns and happie is the man that retaineth her so he ends yea thrice happie shall he be in his life in his death after death in the course of his life shee shall bring him true contentment in the houre of death true comfort and after death true happinesse The first act issueing from wisedome is teaching which though it be not expressed in the English text yet is it necessarily implyed if not primarily intended in the originall word and in some translations we haue it expressed in the very body of the text it selfe as namely in that of Iunius and Tremellius Erudientes teaching or teachers Some there are who desire wisedome for their owne private contentment only this is vaine curiositie some that they may be knowne to be wise this is vaine glory some that they may rise to honour by it this is vaine ambition some that by it they may grow rich this is vaine covetousnesse some that they may profit themselues in the way of godlinesse this is Christian providence and lastly some that they may doe good not only to themselues but to others by teaching and this is Christian Charitie This the Angell foretells in the Chapter here goeing before They that vnderstand among the people shall instruct many and againe in the latter part of the verse immediately following my text many shall runne too and froe and knowledge shall be increased This the Apostle exhorts
deserueth with no other then equal disdaine and contempt For it hath abundantly beene manifested to the world that as in the goodnesse of our cause wee are every way superiour vnto you so in all kinde of learning both Humane and Divine wee are no way inferiour to the best of you Howbeit seeing I am put in good hope by some of your best friends that you carry a minde prepared to imbrace the truth if at any time it shall bee discouered vnto you and your selfe haue freely professed vnto mee that your meaning is not any way to contest with me but only to be instructed by me I am content laying aside all advantages whatsoever to enter the lists with you by framing vp a short yet full answere to endeauour your best satisfaction God grant that as it is intended so it may redound first to his glory and then to the reducing of your straying soule from the servitude of Babylon into the liberty of Ierusalem which is from aboue and the right Mother of all true Beleeuers N. N. Catholike grounds for the Article of the Real Presence I. D. This title prefixed vnto your Writing intimateth that you craue resolution in the article as you terme it of the Real Presence and the Grounds thereof For the better performance whereof and to cleare the way of all rubs before vs you may be pleased to know that we denie not either the Presence or the Real Presence of Christ in the Sacrament Not the Presence For seeing therein his Body is delivered receaued eaten as the Scriptures testifie and that can no way be deliuered receaued eaten which is every way absent we cannot but beleeue with the heart confesse with the mouth that Christ is present Nor the Reall presence For seeing Eating betokeneth our Vnion and Incorporation with Christ whereby we are so closely joyned and joynted vnto him that wee are members of his body of his flesh and of his bones certainely vnlesse wee will question either the power of Faith or whether God be able to worke such an effect we cannot well doubt but that the Presence is True and Real not Imaginarie and Fained According herevnto S. Chrysostome Christ offereth himselfe vnto vs in these Mysteries not onely to bee seene but also to be touched and felt And S. Augustin We cannot with our hand feele Christ sitting in heauen but by Faith we may touch him Agreeing therefore in the Thing that there is a Real Presence wherein lies the difference betwixt vs It lies partly in the Manner of Presence and partly in the kinde of Change whereby the Presence is wrought As touching the Manner of Presence wee acknowledge it to bee double the one Sacramentall the other Spirituall The sacramentall is a Relatiue Presence of the thing signified vnto the signes partly for that they are significatiue represent Christ vnto vs even as the word spoken vnto the eare represents the thing signified thereby vnto the minde and partly because they are Exhibitiue God in them offering vs his Sonne vpon condition of Faith And in regard hereof it may also well be called a Pactionall presence The spirituall is a presence of Christ vnto the Faith of the Receauer or which is all one vnto the Receauer by Faith whereby we seeke him not here on earth in with or vnder the Accidents of bread but aloft in heauen where hee sitteth at the right hand of his father For where the carcase is thither saith Christ will the Eagles resort Whence S. Chrysostome He must climbe vp on high whosoeuer commeth to this Body And S. Augustine How shall I convay my hand into heauen that I may hold him sitting there Send thy faith thither and thou holdest him Now if any farther demand how this sacramentall and spirituall presence is wrought I answere it is done by a Change in the Elements of Bread and Wine By a change I say yet not of their Nature and Substance but of their Vse and Vertue For they are now no longer common but consecrated Bread and Wine ordained by Christ to bee effectuall symbols and Pledges of our Vnion and Communion with his Flesh and Bloud So saith Theodoret The visible symbols hath hee honoured with the name of his Body and Bloud not changing their nature but adding grace vnto nature And so the rest of the Fathers But all this little contents you except withall we yeeld you a Corporall and Locall Presence of Christ vnder the Accidents of Bread and Wine and that by way of Transubstantiation Transubstantiation a terme as lately devised so also inconvenient Lately deuised for it is but foure hundred yeares old or thereabouts bâ—ing forged in the Lateran councell vnder Innocent the third Inconvenient for properly it imports a Productiue kinde of Conversion by which one Substance is produced out of another or whereby one Substance is turned into another such as was the turning of Water into Wine by the power of Christ at Cana in Galilee But you vnderstand thereby an Adductiue kinde of Conversion by which as Bellarmine defineth it the Body of Christ which before was only in heaven is now also vnder the Accidents of Bread So that more fitly it might haue beene tearmed Cession or Succession or Substitution or Translocation or some such like rather then Transubstantiation the meaning you giue vnto it being no other then a succeeding of Christs Body into the roome of Bread vpon the abolishing of the Substance thereof Yet is it not so much the Newnesse and Inconvenience of the terme as the Impietie of the Doctrine intended thereby which we condemne For it crosseth the truth of Scripture ouerturneth the Articles of Faith destroyeth the Nature of a Sacrament gainesayeth the perpetuall consent of antiquity and implieth in it innumerable contradictions all which God willing shall in due place be demonstrated In the meane season hauing thus briefly stated the Question I come now to examine the particulars of your Writing and whether the passages you quote in such abundance reach home to that Corporall and Locall Presence which you hold or passe no farther then that Sacramentall and Spirituall Presence which we maintaine N. N. The first ground that Catholike men haue for these and all their mysteries of Christian Faith that are aboue the reach of common sense and reason is the Authority of the Catholike Church by which they were taught the same as Points of Faith revealed from God I. D. If by the first Ground you vnderstand the first introduction vnto Faith I grant the Authority of the Catholike Church to be the first ground that by it wee are taught the same But if thereby you meane as vndoubtedly you doe that highest Principle into which all the Mysteries of Faith are finally resolued and by which the Mind is staied and freed from farther doubting I deny the Catholike Church so to be the first ground For as Bellarmine truly writeth Faith beginneth from
cause to bee confident vpon them then your selues but only to vindicate the honour and dignity of the Scriptures which of your side are too basely sleighted and neglected And as touching this particular place of Saint Augustine notwithstanding all the flourish you make therewith yet shall you never be able to proue what you intend thereby as I come now to demonstrate This booke de vtilitate credendi I haue now twice for your sake throughly read ouer and with the best attention I could In it I find the authority of the Catholik Church made the first motiue or meanes vnto Faith by which we doe beleeue but not the first principle and reason of faith for which wee doe beleeue The occasion of writing it was this Saint Augustine hauing lately through Gods grace escaped out of the toiles of the Manichean Heretiks in which for the space of nine yeares hee had beene entangled is very desirous to recouer from them his friend Honoratus also as yet continuing in his error and held fast by them This he doubteth not through the same grace of God soone to effect may hee but find him duly prepared and disposed For vntill hee be wrought from his hereticall pertinacy and stifnesse vnto a more Christian moderation and equability he shall with all his arguments but wash a bricke as they say and spend his oile and labour to little purpose That which made him so vntoward and hard to be wrought vpon was the faire and plausible insinuation of the Manichees that they pressed no man to beleeue vntill they had first cleared and manifested the truth whereas others terrified men with superstition and commanded Faith before they tendred any reason vnto them Wherefore to remoue this preiudice and to frame him vnto a more indifferent temper he employeth in this booke all his strength and skill labouring to demonstrate the Vtility of beleeuing and how requisite it is to yeeld to authority before with pure minds we can discerne the truth And this is the only drift and scope he aimeth at in this booke neither medleth hee therein with any of the Manichean heresies but reserueth the confutation conviction of them vntill some other time as appeareth by the very closing vp thereof where he willeth Honoratus to remember that he hath not yet begunne to refute the Manichees nor to seâ— himselfe against those toies nor hath opened any great matter touching Catholike Doctrine Whence thus I argue If S. Augustin in this booke dispute against Honoratus from the Churches authority as the last resolution of Faith then hath he opened therein the greatest point of Christian religion and confuted thereby the Manichean heresie inasmuch as the Catholike Church vtterly condemned it But S. Augustin in expresse words affirmeth that he hath not so much as begun to refute the Manichees nor opened any great matter touching Catholike doctrine Therefore he disputeth not from the Churches authority as the last resolution of Faith True it is he is much in commending authority setting forth the benefit of beleeving it But what authority What beleeuing that authority which is grounded vpon the Generall opinion fame and consent of people nations that Beleeuing which is Morall and only prepares the minde to divine illumination If so then certainly cannot St Augustins authoritie be the last Principle of Faith For this is infallibile and absolutelie necessarie as well to the wise as vnwise that but an vncertaine step or staire to raise vs vp vnto God not necessarie to them that are wise What then is it in S. Augustins iudgment Surely the first inducement or Introduction to the search of divine Mysteries For saith he it is authoritie only which moueth fooles to hasten vnto wisdome And againe to a man that is not able to discerne the truth that he may be made fit for it and suffer himselfe to be purged authority is at hand Had hee thought it to be more then so he would never haue considered it without certainty of truth Yet so doth hee even in the passage by you alledged They saith hee that know the Church affirme her to be more sincere in truth then other sects but touching her truth is another question In a word as in other arts and sciences He that will learne must beleeue his teachers so in these heavenly mysteries also would Saint Augustine haue all those that are not initiated such as his friend Honoratus was to beginne with Authority Not that it is a sufficient warranty for whatsoever we learne but for that it is the readiest and likeliest way to bring vs vnto learning N. N. Thus Saint Augustine teaching his friend how he might both know and beleeue the Catholike Church and all that she taught simply and without asking reason or proofe And as for knowing or discerning her from all other Churches that may pretend to be Catholike wee heare his marks that shee is more eminent vniversall greater in number and in possession of the name Catholike The second that shee may be beleeued securely and cannot deceiue nor bee deceiued in matters of Faith he proueth elsewhere concluding finally in this place If thou doest seeme to thy selfe now saith Augustine to haue beene sufficiently tossed vp downe among Sectaries and wouldst put an end to these labours and turmoiles follow the way of Catholike discipline which hath flowne downe vnto vs from Christ by his Apostles and is to flow from vs to our posterity I. D. Out of that passage of St Augustine you obserue two things first what be the Marks by which the Catholike Church may be discerned secondly that shee may be beleeued securely as one that can neither deceiue nor he deceiued As touching the former you say Saint Augustines Markes are these foure Eminence Vniversality Multitude and Possession of the name Catholike Wherevnto I answere first that Saint Augustine maketh none of these things Notes of the Church For three of them namely Eminencie Vniversality and Possession of the name Catholike he doth not at all mention Eminencie I confesse is foisted into your translation but no where appeares in the Originall Of the fourth to wit Multitude all that he affirmeth is this that in his time there were more Christians then of any other religion and that among all Sects of Christians there was one Church consisting of a greater number then all the rest which is not enough to establish it for a marke of the Church Where by the way giue me leaue to demand why whereas Saint Augustine saith Christians are more then Iewes and worshippers of Images put together you render it the Iewes and Gentiles put together For what the reason should bee I cannot conceiue vnlesse it be the same for which you raze out of your Catechismes the second Commandement But I answere secondly that as St Augustine maketh none of them Marks so neither are they Markes for Proper they are not nor Perpetuall and
retaining the forme of bodily substance by invisible working proueth the Presence of Gods power to be there would you from hence conclude Transubstantiation I knowe you would not No more can you from this And indeed the word species which you translate Forme yea and outward Forme too though the word outward be not in the text doth not signifie shew without substance or Accident without subiect but in the writings of the Fathers vsually it signifieth the truth nature or kinde of a thing So Ambrose I see not speciem the truth of bloud speaking of the Lords Cup but it hath the resemblance which afterward repeating I see the resemblance saith he but I see not veritatē the truth of bloud Again the word of Christ changeth the species of the Elements What is that The Formes or Accidents of the Elements No for they you say remaine What then but the Elements or things thēselues And St Augustin Their meat was the same with ours but the same in signification not in specie that is in kinde So that when your Author saith it keepeth the species of bodily substance it is not necessary to render it by Forme that is Accident or Shew void of substance for you may as well turne it thus it still retaineth the nature or truth of its bodily substance N. N. This graue Father and Martyr doth plainely shew how Mr Downe hath wrested Pope Gelasius For the Popes and the Doctors of the Church did agree alwaies in matters of Faith notwithstanding the great shew M. Downe hath made to the contrary For here S. Cyprian sheweth you that this food of immortality keepeth the outward forme of the Bodily Substance but prouing that there is present a divine power which is confessed by Gelasius And therefore when Gelasius saith the nature of Bread and Wine ceaseth not to be his meaning is the outward forme of the corporall Substance And with this agree many of the Fathers which are also wrested from their true meaning as appeareth manifestly by the manifold plaine places of the Fathers by me here set downe I. D. If to neglect the Premisses and to contradict the Conclusion by the right way of answering arguments then haue you taken the right course and made vp my mouth for ever replying vpon you For whereas M. Downe as you say hath made a great shew to proue that the Fathers disagree among themselues in some points you passing by all the proofes thinke it sufficient to affirme the contrary that the Popes and Doctors of the Church doe agree Wherevpon you farther inferre that M. Downe hath wrested Pope Gelasius For although hee haue proued by the expresse words of Gelasius that the Bread is not transubstantiated because the substance thereof stil remaineth yet is the conclusion false For Popes and Doctors Gelasius and Cyprian must needs agree But questionlesse if Cyprian for for the present wee will suppose him to bee the right Cyprian doe by Forme of bodily substance vnderstand nothing else but shew without Substance it is impossible to make him agree with Gelasius For Gelasius saith The Substance or nature of Bread and wine cease not to be and Substance cannot possibly be shew without substance So to interpret is to expound white by blacke and light by darknesse and would argue extreame either stubbornesse against the truth or brutishnesse But Cyprian by Forme vnderstandeth not as wee haue shewed Accidents miraculously subsisting without Subiect but them together with the Subiect or the verity and truth of the thing And so hee perfectly agrees with Gelasius and the rest of the Fathers and all of them against Transubstantiation For as for those manifold plaine places by you here set downe I hope by this time they appeare not so plaine vnto you but are all of them fully answered and that without wresting any one of them from his true meaning N. N. Therefore though the Fathers doe sometimes call the Sacrament a Figure or Signe Representation or Similitude of Christs Body death passion and bloud they are to bee vnderstood in the like sense as those places of St Paul are wherein Christ is called by him a Figure the substance of the Father and againe an image of God and farther yet appearing in the likenesse of man all which places as they doe not take away from Christ that he was the true substance of his Father or true God or true man indeed though out of every one of those places some heresies haue beene framed by ancient heretiks against his Divinity or Humanity so doe not the foresaid Phrases sometime vsed by the ancient Fathers calling the Sacrament a Signe Figure Representation or Similitude of Christs Body exclude the truth or Reality thereof I. D. That the Sacraments by the Fathers are called Signes Figures Representations Similitudes and the like is so cleare that you cannot deny it and I feare it greeueth you much to read it in them because it maketh so directly against you Wherefore to salue all some pretty shift or colour must be devised those tearms must bee vnderstood as St Paul meaneth when he saith Christ is the Figure of his Father the Image of God and appeared in the likenesse of man For as here they deny not either the Godhead or Man-hood of Christ so neither in the Fathers doe they exclude the Body or Blood of Christ from the Sacrament And doe they not indeed Why then when Cyprian ere while said Retaining the forme of Corporall Substance did you so hastily exclud Substance and fancy to your selfe shewes subsisting of themselues without it But let vs examine this a little farther A Symbole saith Maximus is some sensible thing assumed insteed of that which is intelligible as Bread and Wine for immateriall and divine nourishment and refection And againe These are Symbols not the truth Sacraments saith Augustine are signes of things being one thing and signifying another It were no figure saith Chrysostome if all things incident to the truth were found in it And Saint Augustine againe If Sacraments haue not a resemblance or Similitude of those things whereof they are Sacraments they are not Sacraments These sayings of the Fathers plainely shew that in Sacraments they never conceiued the Figure and the Truth to be one and the same thing but that the signe is one thing and the thing signified cleane another And herevpon in expresse tearms they affirme that they are two not one The Eucharist saith Irenaeus consisteth of two things an earthly and an heauenly And Saint Augustine The sacrifice of the Church is made of two and consisteth of two things the sacrament or sacred signe and the thing of the Sacrament And it is to be noted that they speake generally of all Sacraments so as in the Lords Supper the Figure is no more the same with the Truth then it is in Baptisme And indeed vnlesse you can make Sensible and Insensible Corporall and Spirituall Earthly and
later shorter and taller broader and narrower thicker and thinner greater and lesser then himselfe and such like of the same garbe But I study to be briefe it is high time to remoue my hand as they say from the Table Onely I must forewarne you that if being vnable to vntie these knots you shall attempt to cut them asunder with the sword of Gods Omnipotence you shall but loose your labour For if they be contradictions as vndoubtedly they are your Angelicall Doctor can tell you that they fall not within the compasse of Divine Power So that of force you must either demonstrate that these things are not contradictorie which I am sure you can neuer doe or as becommeth Christian ingenuity you must for ever bid farewell to Transubstantiation and yeeld vnto the truth discouered vnto you And thus at length by Gods assistance haue I finished the taske you haue laid vpon me fully answered whatsoeuer here you haue alleaged in maintenance of your Reall Presence My desire now is that laying aside all prejudice you will but with indifference read what I haue replied therevnto Which if you shall vouchsafe to doe I perswade my selfe it will make you to remit much of that confidence you had in this cause when first you sent this Schedule vnto me Especially if withall you consider that the wittiest and subtlest heads amongst you could never finde it so clearely and strongly grounded either vpon Scripture or Fathers as you pretend Scotus sirnamed the subtle Doctor affirmeth that there is extant in Scripture no place so expresse as without declaration of the Church can evidently constraine a man to admit of Transubstantiation And this saith Bellarmine is not altogether vnprobable For although the scripture may seeme vnto vs so clear as it may constraine a man that is not froward yet it may iustly be doubted whether it be so seeing most learned and witty men such as Scotus specially was haue thought the contâ—ary The same Scot farther saith that were it not for the authority determination of the Roman Church the words of Christ and of the Fathers might more simply plainely truly be vnderstood and expounded Nay hee yet farther addeth and your Cardinal Bellarmine confesseth it that before the Lateran Councell Transubstantiation was not a doctrine of Faith and he wondreth that being no principle article and such as exposeth the Christian Faith to contempt it could be receaued and beleeued The Cardinall of Cambray also doubteth not to avouch that that manner which supposeth the substance of Bread still to remaine is possible neither is it contrary to reason or the authority of scripture Nay it is easier to conceaue and more reasonable then that which saith the substance doth leaue the accidents And of this opinion no inconvenience doth seeme to ensue if it could be accorded with the Churches determination And he addeth that the opinion which holdeth the substance of Bread not to remaine doth not evidently follow of the Scripture nor to his seeming of the Churches determination Cardinall Cajetan is as peremptory that there appeareth nothing in the Gospell that can force a man properly to vnderstand these words This is my body and that were it not for the interpretation of the Roman Church they might very well admit another sense as that of the Apostle the Rocke was Christ. To these Cardinals may wee ioyne another Cardinall though happily he neuer ware the Cap I mean Fisher Bishop of Rochester who expresly averreth that in that place of Mathew where the institution of the Sacrament is recorded there is never a word whereby it may bee proued that there is made in the Masse the true presence of the flesh and bloud of Christ. Gabriel Biel also The Scriptures may be salved and expounded after a more easie vnderstanding And Occam This doctrine that the substance of bread remaineth is subiect to lesser inconveniences and is not so repugnant to reason the Scriptures And Durand It is great rashnesse to say that the body of Christ cannot by divine power be in the Sacrament but by converting bread into it Howbeit if that way which supposeth bread to remaine were indeed true many doubts which meet vs holding it not to remaine were dissolued The Master of the Sentences also freely confesseth that if it be demanded what that conversion is whether formall or substantiall or of another kinde he is not sufficient to define From these your Iesuits swarue not very much Gregory de Valentia saith that the Fathers spake of Transubstantiation somewhat obscurely simply as thinking they could not be vnderstood of Catholikes but Catholikely and least they should haue exposed the mystery to be laughed at of Infidels if in their popular Sermons they should haue vnfolded their minds Your Secular Priests affirme that it was concluded among the Fathers of the Societie and what Catholike would not beleeue them that the Fathers haue not so much as touched the point of Transubstantiation Finally not to muster vp any more it is well knowne that divers of your Priests being demanded if after sentence of death pronounced vpon them that very morning when they were to be executed they might haue leaue to say Masse to the intent they might be certaine of their owne intention to consecrate and not doubtfully depend vpon anothers whether after consecration for the confirmation of our Faith in the point of Transubstantiation they durst to say thus vnto the multitude Vnlesse that which is now in this Chalice whose Accidents you see be the very selfe same bloud which issued out of the side of Christ hanging on the crosse let mee haue no part either in the bloud of Christ or in Christ himselfe for ever and so with these last words bid farewel vnto the world being I say demanded whether they durst adventure to doe so they all with one voice denied it And Father Garnet in a conference with the Deanes of the Chappell Pauls and Westminster being in particular asked the like answered very perplexedly not daring to hazard his saluation therevpon All these testimonies duly pondered and considered you must needs acknowledge vnlesse you see better then these quick-sighted Eagles that you haue not so strong hold either in Scripture or Fathers or right reason as you imagined and that not only the name but the Doctrine also of Transubstantiation hath beene but of late created an article of your Faith It remaineth that I entreat you these things vndoubtedly being thus that you suffer not your selfe any longer to be beguilded with novelties vnder pretence of antiquitie but rather that you open your eyes and stretch forth your armes to embrace the truth now that she offereth her selfe so manifestly vnto you And this I intreat the more earnestly because of the great danger that followeth vpon this errour For if Christ bee not present in the Sacrament in such sort as you hold there
was never either seen or heard the like Idolatrie vnto yours as your own Coster confesseth For saith he it is a more tolerable error to worship Images of silver or gold or other stuffe with the Gentiles or a red cloath on a pike with the Lieflanders or liuing creatures with the Egyptians then to adore a morsell of bread Oh therefore let me yet againe beseech you and that by the dearest name of Iesus Christ to pitty your owne soule and with all speed to retire your selfe from Babylon the mother of all spirituall whoredome Heretofore happily your ignorance might in part excuse you but now that the light hath shined vpon you if wilfully you close your eies against it you are altogether vnexcusable and these papers one day will appeare in iudgement against you Oh how glad would the blessed Angels in heaven bee might they once behold your conversion How readily and louingly would the true Church of Christ entertaine you and how humbly thankfull would my poore selfe be vnto the Divine Maiestie if through his blessing these endeauours of mine might be a meanes to reclaime you For my part I haue done what belonged vnto me that truth I haue both propounded and demonstrated vnto you To turne the heart is not in my power that I leaue vnto God whose office it is Yet will I neuer cease to addresse my vowes vnto him for you if at any time hee may bee pleased in Iesus Christ to haue compassion vpon you FINIS A DEFENCE OF THE FORmer Answer against the Reply of N.N. OXFORD Printed by I.L. for E. F. 1633. A DEFENCE OF THE FORMER ANSWERE AGAINST the reply of N. N. SIR I perceiue would I follow the tract you seeke to set me in I might travell long enough and be never the neerer my journies end All the Passages alleadged by you in maintenance of Transubstantiation I haue fully answered adding therevnto sundry arguments clearly demonstrating the impiety thereof Wherevpon I expected either that you should yeeld being convinced by the evidence of truth or particularly acquaint me wherein I had not satisfied you Now what you Forsooth neither the one nor the other But insteed thereof you send me a fardle of idle Generalities pickt out of I know not what blind author all making no more to the matter in hand then as he saith a Cypresse tree doth to a table of shipwrack In regard whereof I could not hitherto perswade my selfe to reioyne vnto it For why should I stray with him that will needs out of the Way Neverthelesse fearing least by holding my peace I might seeme either to prejudice my cause or to disable my selfe and knowing what clapping of wings and crowing there vseth to be amongst you vpon every the least shew of advantage I haue at length resolued to vouchsafe you one encounter more and then if you still persist in your outlopes and impertinences to wast no more oile or paper vpon you For it is St Pauls advice to avoid an heretike after one or two admonitions knowing that such a one is perverted and sinneth being condemned of himselfe To proceed therefore in order let vs begin with your Preamble N. N. Musing why your kinsman delivered me not your papers you suppose it was because hee conceited not well of them or thought they would not pleasure I. D. You coniecture not amisse For being demanded the reason he answered because you had written nothing to the purpose and yet continue obstinated in your errour Which how could it be welcome to either of vs But take heed I beseech you how you close your eyes any longer against the light of truth For to them that receiue not the loue of truth that they may be saved God threatneth to send them the efficacy of errour to beleeue lies N. N. The passages now sent are taken out of your Papers These againe out of your author Yet truly And all to shew you build not vpon any one mans opinion I. D. You might haue done well to name your Author that we might know his worth and whether your Papers haue wronged him and if not whether your Authors selfe haue not wronged those out of whom hee hath taken his collections But suppose neither You nor your Author faile yet is your inference ridiculous For though the writers you quote be many yet is your Author but one And alleadging them vpon his sole credit without any particular knowledge of your owne you build herein but vpon one mans opinion N. N. No nor on Lutherans Anabaptists Protestants Puritans or tearmed Papists farther then they agree with the authority of the Catholike Church I. D. Lutheran is a name not chosen by vs who in point of Faith depend vpon no man but by you thrust vpon vs. Anabaptists we detest as much as you Puritan is the auncient name of the Novatians and better fitteth you then vs. For wee hold not as you doe that we can eschew all sinne all our life and perfectly fulfill the law yea supererogate and merit heauen by our workes The name of Protestant was first given vnto the Princes and Free citties of Germany Protesting their Faith at a Diet in Spire Ann. 1529. neither doe wee disclaime it But who I pray are those tearmed Papists For relying on the Omnipotency of your Lord God the Pope you are Papists indeed and your betters approue the terme Parsons saith that it importeth no more hurt then if in a sedition they that side with the King be called Royalists Florimond Raimond that it is a name of honour and whereat none should take offence Tho. Bozius that you haue good reason to glory in it And an old Catholike as Walsingham reports that it was a most honourable thing for men to stand with their Head and to haue their denomination from him Thus they But nor Papists nor others shall moue you farther then they agree with the Catholike Church And reason if thereby you vnderstand that of all times including the Apostles For they erred not And what they Preached they left in writing ever after to be the rule and ground of Faith But if you meane as I doubt you doe the Now-Roman Church besides that it is not Catholike there will be but little salt found in your speech For it will be as if you had said you will not rely on Papists or any other farther then they agree with Papists of which only that Church consisteth N. N. Succession continuance visibility vnitie are notes of the Catholike Church and only found in her I. D. These Notes are not Proper agreeing only and alwaies to the Church Certaine therefore and infallible they are not Not Personall Succession For in the beginning of the Church it was not and in the time of Antichrist you say it shall not be It hath also beene continued in the Churches of Hierusalem Antioch Alexandria Constantinople which yet you esteeme no true Churches The consideration whereof forced from