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Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
truth_n divine_a faith_n revelation_n 3,458 5 9.7228 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A77707 Rome's conviction: or, A discoverie of the unsoundness of the main grounds of Rome's religion, in answer to a book, called The right religion, evinced by L.B. Shewing, 1. That the Romish Church is not the true and onely Catholick Church, infallible ground and rule of faith. 2. That the main doctrines of the Romish Church are damnable errors, & therefore to be deserted by such as would be saved. By William Brownsword, M.A. and minister of the Gospel at Douglas Chappell in Lancashire. Brownsword, William, b. 1625 or 6. 1654 (1654) Wing B5216; Thomason E1474_2; ESTC R209513 181,322 400

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capacity_n of_o our_o condition_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o denominate_v or_o render_v the_o subject_n it_o be_v in_o perfect_a or_o a_o exact_a keeper_n of_o the_o law_n of_o god_n if_o a_o debtor_n owe_v twenty_o pound_n and_o have_v but_o five_o pound_n which_o he_o pay_v to_o his_o creditor_n do_v the_o payment_n of_o this_o five_o pound_n which_o be_v as_o much_o as_o the_o present_a capacity_n of_o his_o condition_n reach_v to_o denominate_v and_o render_v he_o a_o perfect_a payer_n of_o his_o debt_n i_o trow_v not_o and_o pray_v sir_n show_v the_o difference_n betwixt_o this_o and_o your_o assertion_n chap._n vi_o of_o religion_n 1._o you_o assert_v that_o religion_n consist_v in_o belief_n not_o humane_a ground_v upon_o reason_n but_o rely_v on_o the_o church_n authority_n and_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n 5._o religio_fw-la est_fw-la virtus_fw-la perquam_fw-la homines_fw-la deo_fw-la debitum_fw-la cultum_fw-la &_o reverentiam_fw-la exhibent_fw-la aquin._n 22._o q._n 81._o 1._o c._n religio_fw-la est_fw-la quae_fw-la cultum_fw-la &_o honorem_fw-la deo_fw-la tribuit_fw-la azor_n instit_fw-la mor._n p._n 1._o l._n 3._o c._n 26._o &_o l._n 9_o c._n 5._o p._n 23._o answ_n 1._o the_o proper_a act_n of_o religion_n be_v to_o worship_n and_o bring_v honour_n to_o god_n with_o relation_n to_o who_o only_o religion_n be_v define_v by_o your_o schoolman_n and_o other_o this_o worship_n be_v due_a to_o god_n only_o and_o be_v that_o whereby_o we_o give_v up_o ourselves_o unto_o god_n as_o the_o supreme_a lord_n of_o all_o and_o do_v place_n our_o hope_n and_o that_o in_o he_o as_o azorius_fw-la define_v it_o according_a to_o this_o faith_n be_v a_o part_n of_o divine_a worship_n a_o act_n of_o religion_n but_o relate_v to_o god_n the_o supreme_a lord_n of_o all_o not_o to_o the_o church_n which_o be_v only_o a_o servant_n under_o he_o or_o if_o you_o will_v a_o assembly_n of_o his_o servant_n and_o indeed_o its_o reason_n that_o faith_n shall_v 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argument_n i_o shall_v
the_o reason_n of_o my_o denial_n be_v these_o 1._o it_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n write_v or_o the_o scripture_n to_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o faith_n these_o thing_n be_v write_v that_o you_o may_v believe_v ult_n joh._n 20._o ult_n i._n e._n that_o your_o faith_n may_v have_v a_o certain_a foundation_n revelation_n or_o tradition_n be_v more_o uncertain_a and_o easy_o pretend_v where_o they_o have_v no_o existence_n or_o be_v compare_v with_o this_o 2_o pet._n 1.18.19_o you_o have_v a_o more_o sure_a word_n of_o prophecy_n that_o be_v in_o quo_fw-la magis_fw-la confirmetur_fw-la auditor_n whereby_o the_o hearer_n may_v be_v more_o confirm_v so_o that_o the_o word_n be_v more_o sure_a and_o that_o to_o we_o inasmuch_o as_o we_o be_v thereby_o more_o confirm_v hence_o it_o be_v that_o our_o saviour_n send_v his_o hearer_n to_o the_o scripture_n that_o therein_o they_o may_v find_v what_o they_o have_v to_o believe_v joh._n 5.39_o so_o do_v the_o prophet_n 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it_o true_a that_o the_o church_n must_v be_v the_o ground_n of_o faith_n yet_o i_o affirm_v that_o this_o be_v not_o you_o or_o any_o other_o present_a church_n but_o only_o the_o primitive_a church_n which_o as_o i_o have_v already_o show_v be_v of_o great_a authority_n than_o the_o present_a church_n which_o be_v in_o a_o kind_n ground_v upon_o the_o apostolic_a church_n or_o that_o church_n which_o contain_v the_o prophet_n apostle_n etc._n etc._n all_o succeed_a church_n be_v build_v upon_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n who_o testimony_n because_o of_o their_o visible_a converse_n with_o god_n and_o christ_n become_v efficax_n ad_fw-la credendum_fw-la effectual_a for_o the_o ground_v of_o faith_n it_o be_v observable_a that_o whereas_o abraham_n may_v have_v tell_v the_o rich_a man_n that_o his_o brethren_n have_v a_o present_a church_n to_o hearken_v to_o yet_o he_o only_o mention_n moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n 2._o i_o affirm_v that_o if_o your_o church_n be_v a_o foundation_n of_o faith_n yet_o this_o will_v not_o be_v a_o divine_a but_o only_o a_o humane_a faith_n and_o indeed_o this_o be_v the_o very_a reason_n why_o your_o doctor_n common_o hold_v that_o faith_n be_v ultimate_o resolve_v upon_o god_n himself_o reveal_v the_o truth_n as_o azorius_fw-la observe_v because_o divine_a faith_n must_v be_v resolve_v into_o a_o divine_a testimony_n which_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o and_o they_o prove_v it_o by_o divers_a argument_n especial_o by_o four_o which_o i_o have_v transcribe_v out_o of_o azorius_fw-la and_o though_o he_o do_v not_o altogether_o adhere_v to_o their_o opinion_n 2._o ratio_fw-la 1._o ecclesiae_fw-la testimonium_fw-la est_fw-la quidem_fw-la divinum_fw-la sed_fw-la participatione_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la &_o sva_fw-la naturâ_fw-la at_o dei_fw-la testimonium_fw-la est_fw-la divinum_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la &_o suâ_fw-la naturâ_fw-la &_o fides_fw-la divina_fw-la resolvi_fw-la debet_fw-la in_o testimonium_fw-la quod_fw-la sit_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la non_fw-la autem_fw-la participatione_fw-la divinum_fw-la 2._o quae_fw-la sunt_fw-la fidei_fw-la revelatione_fw-la divinâ_fw-la non_fw-la naturae_fw-la lumine_fw-la sunt_fw-la patefacta_fw-la at_o deus_fw-la est_fw-la qui_fw-la revelat_fw-la ac_fw-la pandit_fw-la res_fw-la fidei_fw-la non_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la 3._o in_o angelis_n prophetis_fw-la apostolis_n &_o caeteris_fw-la librorum_fw-la cananicorum_fw-la scriptoribus_fw-la fides_fw-la non_fw-la resolvebat_fw-la in_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la testimonium_fw-la sed_fw-la in_o deum_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la pro_fw-la xime_n revelantem_fw-la at_o fides_fw-la nostra_fw-la est_fw-la ejusdem_fw-la speciei_fw-la cujus_fw-la fui_fw-la illa_fw-la ergo_fw-la in_o eandem_fw-la rationem_fw-la credendi_fw-la reducitur_fw-la 4._o quamvis_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la sit_fw-la testis_fw-la non_fw-la tamen_fw-la conduit_n aliquem_fw-la articulum_fw-la fidei_fw-la sed_fw-la declarat_fw-la &_o explicat_fw-la quae_fw-la sunt_fw-la fidei_fw-la etc._n etc._n azor._fw-la instit_fw-la moral_a parl._n 2._o l._n 5._o c._n 24._o q._n 2._o but_o allow_v something_o to_o the_o church_n yet_o he_o acknowledge_v that_o it_o be_v ex_fw-la accidenti_fw-la by_o accident_n that_o our_o faith_n be_v resolve_v into_o the_o church_n authority_n again_o 2._o many_o learned_a papist_n believe_v and_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v only_o a_o humane_a faith_n whereby_o we_o believe_v that_o this_o or_o the_o other_o pope_n be_v peter_n successor_n and_o christ_n vicar_n on_o earth_n because_o it_o depend_v on_o this_o proposition_n that_o this_o or_o the_o other_o pope_n be_v orderly_o and_o canonical_o choose_v to_o the_o popedom_n which_o be_v also_o object_v against_o general_a council_n now_o how_o can_v we_o believe_v a_o pope_n decree_n for_o a_o divine_a faith_n when_o it_o be_v only_o a_o humane_a faith_n whereby_o we_o believe_v that_o he_o be_v pope_n or_o peter_n successor_n becanus_n 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of_o the_o church_n and_o father_n but_o for_o brevity_n to_o refer_v to_o dr._n mortons_n learned_a apeal_n lib._n 9_o c._n 29._o i_o will_v only_o say_v one_o thing_n for_o yourself_o that_o in_o your_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n so_o much_o as_o it_o be_v especial_o in_o your_o read_n of_o it_o you_o follow_v neither_o church_n nor_o father_n nor_o honest_a christian_a witness_v the_o scripture_n you_o bring_v for_o your_o impudent_a assertion_n 1._o text_n 2._o pet._n 1._o no_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n by_o private_a spirit_n excellent_o read_v you_o have_v find_v private_a spirit_n in_o express_a word_n yet_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o have_v you_o be_v put_v to_o read_v this_o text_n instead_o of_o a_o miserere_fw-la mei_fw-la before_o a_o judge_n of_o assize_n your_o read_n will_v hardly_o have_v save_v you_o from_o hang_v 2._o text_n math._n 18.17_o to_o bel●eve_v the_o church_n admirable_a he●e_o be_v faith_n i●_n the_o church_n in_o express_a term_n which_o none_o ever_o see_v before_o 3._o text_n 2_o cor._n 10._o where_o say_v you_o st._n paul_n wish_v to_o captivate_v the_o understanding_n to_o the_o obedience_n of_o faith_n yet_o more_o falsehood_n the_o rhemist_n as_o well_o as_o we_o and_o all_o man_n that_o be_v in_o their_o right_a wit_n and_o have_v any_o thing_n of_o ingenuity_n read_v it_o to_o the_o obedience_n of_o christ_n i_o wonder_v you_o read_v it_o not_o to_o the_o obedi-of_a the_o church_n and_o thus_o you_o will_v prove_v both_o faith_n and_o obedience_n due_a to_o the_o church_n which_o in_o time_n may_v have_v procure_v you_o a_o cardinalship_n 4._o text_n luke_n 16._o none_o can_v serve_v two_o master_n this_o read_n be_v tolerable_a i_o will_v brief_o now_o answer_v these_o text_n 1._o to_o the_o first_o i_o say_v the_o word_n be_v these_o know_v this_o first_o that_o no_o prophecy_n of_o scripture_n be_v of_o any_o private_a interpretation_n and_o they_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o penman_n of_o scripture_n not_o of_o private_a interpreter_n who_o do_v not_o use_v their_o own_o will_n and_o counsel_n vers_fw-la 21._o but_o be_v inspire_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o rhemist_n read_v show_n that_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o prophet_n understanding_n this_o first_o that_o no_o pprophecy_n of_o scripture_n be_v make_v by_o private_a interpretati_fw-la n_o it_o be_v speak_v of_o the_o composure_n not_o of_o the_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n 2._o your_o second_o text_n i_o have_v former_o answer_v 3._o your_o three_o text_n chrysostom_n understand_v of_o bring_v man_n from_o the_o estate_n of_o death_n and_o destruction_n into_o the_o estate_n of_o life_n and_o salvation_n subject_v they_o to_o christ_n your_o gloss_n by_o all_o understanding_n conceive_v be_v mean_v all_o proud_a conceit_a person_n who_o be_v make_v subject_a to_o the_o faith_n of_o
you_o say_v the_o scripture_n declare_v not_o that_o its_o lawful_a to_o eat_v strangle_v meat_n and_o blood_n answ_n 1._o the_o scripture_n declare_v that_o every_o creature_n of_o god_n be_v good_a and_o nothing_o to_o be_v refuse_v if_o it_o be_v receive_v with_o thanksgiving_n 1_o tim._n 4.4_o and_o that_o christian_n be_v not_o to_o be_v judge_v for_o their_o eat_n of_o any_o meat_n col._n 2.16_o so_o it_o be_v not_o with_o the_o offence_n of_o our_o brother_n who_o be_v weak_a thus_o lyra_n on_o that_o decree_n of_o the_o apostle_n concern_v strangle_v meat_n and_o blood_n say_v those_o who_o be_v new_o convert_v from_o judaisme_n do_v abhor_v these_o meat_n 5.20_o lyran._n in_o act_n 5.20_o and_o therefore_o although_o it_o be_v meat_n that_o lawful_o may_v be_v eat_v yet_o for_o their_o sake_n the_o gentile_n be_v command_v to_o abstain_v from_o as_o a_o man_n be_v to_o abstain_v from_o that_o meat_n which_o be_v hateful_a to_o his_o companion_n but_o afterward_o the_o cause_n cease_v through_o the_o clear_a discovery_n of_o the_o gospel_n the_o effect_n cease_v and_o this_o gospel_n light_n he_o fetch_v from_o math._n 15._o and_o 1_o tim._n 4._o both_o which_o be_v scripture_n 2._o it_o may_v be_v question_v whether_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n to_o believe_v that_o thing_n strangle_v &_o blood_n may_v be_v lawful_a to_o be_v eat_v the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n be_v not_o meat_n and_o drink_n we_o be_v not_o justify_v by_o meat_n it_o be_v weakness_n to_o think_v any_o meat_n unlawful_a rom._n 14.2_o but_o not_o heretical_a the_o eat_n or_o refuse_v of_o meat_n be_v of_o that_o kind_n of_o thing_n quae_fw-la dubium_fw-la est_fw-la quo_fw-la animo_fw-la fiant_fw-la not_o of_o those_o quae_fw-la non_fw-la possunt_fw-la bono_fw-mi animo_fw-la fi●ri_fw-la as_o augustine_n distinguish_v thus_o much_o for_o answer_v to_o your_o reason_n and_o its_o confirmation_n last_o in_o the_o close_a of_o your_o chapter_n you_o bring_v a_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o spiritist_n do_v not_o make_v the_o scripture_n a_o rule_n of_o their_o belief_n it_o be_v this_o be_v scripture_n the_o rule_n of_o their_o belief_n though_o it_o contain_v divers_a truth_n yet_o those_o truth_n meeting_n and_o become_v one_o in_o revelation_n they_o woe_n l_o all_o perfect_o agree_v not_o only_a lutheran_n amo_fw-la g_o themselves_z zuinglians_n among_o themselves_o calvenist_n among_o themselves_o but_o likewise_o lutheran_n with_o zuinlians_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o unity_n to_o unite_v and_o make_v one_o all_o that_o conform_v to_o the_o same_o answ_n 1._o you_o suppose_v that_o all_o they_o who_o acknowledge_v one_o rule_n must_v perfect_o agree_v among_o themselves_o which_o be_v evident_o false_a a_o exact_a walk_n according_o the_o same_o rule_n be_v not_o attainable_a by_o any_o society_n on_o this_o side_n heaven_n for_o 1._o all_o have_v not_o the_o same_o measure_n of_o knowledge_n whereby_o they_o shall_v understand_v exact_o every_o point_n in_o scripture_n many_o thing_n be_v scriptural_a by_o consequence_n which_o must_v be_v find_v out_o by_o argument_n and_o be_v hardly_o understand_v than_o other_o thing_n though_o in_o some_o place_n of_o scripture_n a_o lamb_n may_v wade_v yet_o in_o other_o a_o elephant_n may_v swim_v the_o apostle_n say_v let_v we_o as_o many_o as_o be_v perfect_a be_v thus_o mind_v &_o if_o in_o any_o thing_n you_o be_v otherwise_o mind_v god_n shall_v reveal_v even_o this_o unto_o you_o nevertheless_o whereto_o we_o have_v already_o attain_v let_v we_o walk_v by_o the_o same_o rule_n etc._n etc._n phil._n 3.15.16_o it_o be_v a_o perfection_n a_o high_a attainment_n for_o christian_n to_o be_v perfect_o one_o yea_o it_o be_v a_o privilege_n of_o another_o life_n 3.15_o rhem._n annot_fw-mi on_o phil._n 3.15_o where_o knowledge_n become_v perfect_a eph._n 4.13_o with_o 1_o cor._n 13._o the_o rhemist_n acknowledge_v this_o as_o the_o judgement_n of_o saint_n paul_n acknowledge_v that_o in_o this_o imperfection_n of_o man_n science_n in_o this_o life_n every_o one_o can_v be_v free_a from_o all_o error_n or_o think_v the_o same_o that_o another_o think_v whereupon_o may_v arise_v difference_n of_o understanding_n opinion_n and_o judgement_n in_o certa_fw-la n_o hard_a matter_n which_o god_n have_v not_o reveal_v or_o the_o church_n determine_v and_o therefore_o that_o such_o diversity_n be_v tolerable_a and_o agreeable_a to_o our_o humane_a condition_n and_o the_o state_n of_o the_o way_n that_o we_o be_v in_o 2._o all_o have_v not_o the_o same_o measure_n of_o grace_n and_o freedom_n from_o corruption_n and_o passion_n which_o prevail_v to_o draw_v man_n from_o a_o conformity_n to_o the_o same_o rule_n some_o be_v of_o a_o cross_n and_o peevish_a temper_n subject_n to_o a_o spirit_n of_o contradiction_n maintain_v error_n lest_o they_o shall_v seem_v to_o be_v overcome_v by_o other_o or_o not_o to_o have_v be_v so_o sound_a as_o other_o be_v passion_n have_v a_o great_a influx_n upon_o the_o difference_n of_o our_o first_o reformer_n nor_o be_v you_o free_a from_o this_o evil_a this_o spirit_n of_o contradiction_n you_o reject_v clear_a exposition_n of_o scripture_n because_o we_o approve_v of_o they_o when_o augustine_n compare_v the_o jewish_a and_o christian_a sacrament_n say_v fuerunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n they_o be_v divers_a in_o the_o sign_n but_o alike_o in_o the_o thing_n signify_v ground_v his_o speech_n upon_o 1_o cor._n 10.3_o maldonate_fw-it answer_v i_o be_o persuade_v if_o augustine_n have_v live_v in_o our_o age_n he_o will_v have_v think_v otherwise_o especial_o perceive_v the_o heretical_a calvinist_n to_o be_v of_o of_o his_o opinion_n and_o he_o further_o add_v i_o rather_o approve_v my_o own_o exposition_n than_o that_o of_o augustin_n because_o this_o be_v more_o contradictory_n to_o the_o calvinist_n 6._o mald._n in_o joan._n 6._o 2._o yourselves_o acknowledge_v one_o rule_n the_o church_n yet_o can_v true_o say_v that_o all_o papist_n do_v perfect_o agree_v i_o shall_v show_v the_o contrary_a hereafter_o 3._o though_o protestant_n differ_v about_o particular_a truth_n yet_o they_o all_o agree_v in_o this_o that_o whatsoever_o god_n reveal_v to_o they_o in_o scripture_n they_o be_v bind_v to_o believe_v it_o herein_o lutheran_n zuinghans_n and_o calvenist_n as_o you_o name_v they_o do_v full_o agree_v 4._o you_o false_o and_o ignorant_o suggest_v to_o your_o seduce_a follower_n that_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v full_a of_o division_n and_o disagreement_n calvenist_n differ_v among_o themselves_o and_o from_o lutheran_n &c._n &c._n sir_n i_o pray_v you_o read_v the_o harmonious_a confession_n of_o protestant_a church_n and_o if_o by_o they_o you_o be_v not_o convince_v of_o error_n in_o your_o next_o give_v we_o some_o catalogue_n of_o those_o divide_a and_o subdivide_v difference_n you_o general_o mention_n till_o than_o we_o shall_v suspend_v our_o belief_n of_o you_o your_o reason_n in_o these_o word_n it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o unity_n to_o unite_v etc._n etc._n be_v a_o piece_n of_o nonsense_n if_o you_o have_v mention_v rule_n instead_o of_o unity_n it_o have_v be_v most_o true_a but_o nothing_o to_o purpose_n it_o be_v the_o property_n of_o a_o rule_n to_o unite_v and_o make_v one_o all_o that_o conform_v to_o it_o so_o that_o to_o the_o make_v up_o of_o this_o unity_n there_o must_v not_o only_o be_v a_o exact_a rule_n but_o a_o perfect_a conformity_n to_o it_o in_o they_o who_o it_o do_v concern_v which_o perfect_a conformity_n can_v be_v yield_v by_o any_o live_a man_n to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n because_o of_o ignorance_n and_o corruption_n which_o remain_v in_o the_o very_o best_a of_o man_n the_o conclusion_n of_o your_o argument_n need_v no_o answer_n the_o premise_n be_v overthrow_v what_o you_o say_v of_o our_o do_v homage_n to_o luther_n calvin_n and_o zuinglius_n fancy_n be_v simple_a and_o false_a you_o know_v we_o abhor_v a_o blind_a obedience_n and_o a_o implicit_a faith_n the_o book_n our_o people_n read_v ordinary_o be_v not_o luther_n calvin_n or_o zuinglius_n work_n but_o the_o sacred_a scripture_n by_o which_o we_o examine_v all_o writing_n even_o there_o be_v you_o now_o mention_v if_o we_o meet_v with_o they_o we_o look_v upon_o luther_n calvin_n and_o zuinglius_fw-la as_o eminent_a light_n in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n not_o as_o go_n we_o say_v not_o dominus_fw-la deus_fw-la noster_fw-la calvinus_n etc._n etc._n as_o some_o of_o you_o have_v say_v of_o your_o pope_n we_o acknowledge_v they_o endue_v with_o the_o spirit_n but_o not_o infallible_o inspire_v as_o holder_n forth_o of_o a_o old_a light_n hide_v under_o a_o romish_a bushel_n not_o as_o introducer_n of_o any_o new_a one_o as_o reformer_n not_o innovator_n we_o reverence_v they_o as_o pious_a man_n now_o with_o the_o lord_n but_o neither_o prey_n to_o they_o nor_o keep_v holiday_n for_o they_o our_o homage_n we_o
will_v waver_v because_o of_o suppose_a want_n of_o succession_n and_o for_o stubborn_a misbeliever_n the_o proof_n of_o succession_n will_v not_o bend_v or_o make_v they_o supple_a they_o that_o will_v not_o believe_v moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n speak_v in_o scripture_n will_v not_o believe_v though_o one_o shall_v rise_v from_o the_o dead_a luke_n 16.31_o but_o to_o what_o purpose_n bring_v you_o the_o text_n 1_o pet._n 3._o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o for_o succession_n in_o order_n to_o the_o bend_n of_o the_o mind_n of_o misbeliever_n unless_o you_o understand_v the_o wife_n be_v in_o subjection_n to_o their_o own_o husband_n whereby_o they_o that_o obey_v not_o the_o word_n may_v without_o the_o word_n be_v win_v to_o be_v the_o wife_n prove_v their_o episcopal_a succession_n but_o for_o the_o necessity_n of_o produce_v succession_n you_o urge_v testimony_n and_o reason_n which_o i_o shall_v now_o in_o order_n examine_v the_o testimony_n be_v these_o viz._n of_o tertullian_n bid_v the_o sectary_n of_o his_o time_n let_v he_o see_v the_o beginning_n of_o their_o church_n and_o unfold_v the_o order_n of_o their_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n likewise_o optatus_n lib._n 2._o contr._n parmen_fw-la the_o origin_n of_o your_o chair_n show_v you_o that_o needs_o will_v challenge_v to_o yourselves_o the_o holy_a church_n st._n augustine_n de_fw-la vit_fw-fr credend_a ep_v contr_n faust_n manich_fw-ge come_v not_o behind_o these_o in_o press_v the_o necessity_n of_o succession_n and_o derivation_n where_o he_o ingenious_o acknowledge_v they_o to_o be_v of_o force_n to_o hold_v and_o keep_v he_o in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o church_n there_o keep_v i_o say_v that_o great_a saint_n in_o the_o church_n the_o succession_n of_o priest_n from_o the_o very_o sit_v of_o st._n peter_n to_o who_o our_o lord_n after_o his_o resurrection_n commit_v the_o feed_n of_o his_o sheep_n even_o oh_o this_o present_a bishop_n answ_n there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o produce_v 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the_o succession_n of_o faith_n be_v the_o true_a succession_n for_o those_o that_o profess_v the_o same_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n be_v partaker_n of_o the_o same_o throne_n athanas_n naz._n orat._n the_o laud_n athanas_n so_o tertullian_n and_o optatus_n the_o one_o require_v from_o sectary_n the_o begin_n of_o their_o church_n the_o other_o the_o origin_n of_o their_o chair_n both_o which_o phrase_n refer_v to_o their_o agreement_n with_o the_o apostle_n not_o to_o personal_a succession_n father_n urge_a succession_n of_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a but_o not_o the_o succession_n of_o person_n 2._o it_o be_v of_o such_o as_o be_v a_o inconsiderable_a party_n yet_o exclude_v all_o other_o from_o be_v of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o themselves_o such_o be_v the_o valentinian_o oppose_v by_o tertullian_n and_o those_o who_o optatus_n speak_v of_o thus_o we_o may_v demand_v of_o the_o romanist_n and_o say_v the_o origin_n of_o your_o church_n show_v you_o that_o needs_o will_v challenge_v to_o yourselves_o the_o holy_a church_n when_o do_v you_o begin_v to_o be_v such_o when_o have_v your_o pope_n his_o universal_a power_n as_o emperor_n of_o the_o world_n etc._n etc._n or_o 3._o it_o be_v of_o some_o church_n not_o of_o all_o viz._n 1._o of_o such_o as_o have_v begin_v with_o the_o apostle_n not_o other_o which_o begin_v long_o after_o and_o therefore_o can_v not_o show_v such_o succession_n 2._o of_o such_o as_o be_v in_o their_o time_n not_o of_o after_o age_n their_o demand_n extend_v not_o to_o we_o present_v church_n be_v not_o so_o able_a to_o show_v succession_n as_o those_o be_v in_o who_o time_n heretical_a bishop_n have_v no_o place_n in_o the_o church_n as_o austin_n show_v for_o have_v reckon_v up_o the_o roman_a bishop_n from_o linus_n to_o anastatius_fw-la live_v then_o 165._o ep._n 165._o he_o conclude_v that_o in_o the_o rank_n of_o this_o succession_n there_o be_v not_o one_o bishop_n find_v that_o be_v a_o donatist_n and_o also_o whilst_o there_o be_v a_o short_a space_n betwixt_o the_o apostle_n and_o they_o the_o late_a of_o they_o live_v within_o four_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n in_o which_o time_n there_o be_v no_o expurgatory_n indices_fw-la no_o ●●opping_n of_o their_o mouth_n who_o write_v the_o truth_n the_o father_n of_o the_o first_o century_n be_v few_o and_o not_o subject_a to_o popish_a purgation_n whereas_o the_o case_n be_v now_o otherwise_o we_o be_v not_o much_o short_a of_o the_o 1700_o year_n from_o christ_n our_o author_n that_o may_v show_v our_o succession_n abuse_v by_o you_o your_o argument_n therefore_o be_v not_o good_a succession_n must_v now_o be_v demand_v and_o produce_v for_o so_o it_o be_v in_o the_o time_n of_o augustine_n optatus_n tertullian_n 1300_o year_n ago_o 4._o they_o rather_o demand_v the_o origin_n and_o beginnning_n of_o church_n than_o succession_n of_o bishop_n leave_v more_o to_o antiquity_n than_o to_o succession_n 2._o you_o argue_v for_o the_o necessity_n of_o succession_n thus_o derivation_n of_o succession_n be_v so_o proper_a to_o the_o true_a church_n that_o it_o can_v not_o agree_v to_o any_o false_a as_o st_n hierom_n in_o micam_fw-la 1._o observe_v assure_v heretic_n to_o have_v no_o such_o riches_n as_o come_v to_o man_n by_o plain_a inheritance_n from_o their_o father_n answ_n this_o be_v most_o untrue_a bellarmine_n dare_v not_o affirm_v it_o that_o its_o necessary_o infer_v that_o where_o there_o be_v succession_n there_o be_v the_o church_n to_o who_o mr._n hart_n consent_v 9_o hart._n confer_v c._n 7._o div_o 9_o say_v indeed_o succession_n of_o bishop_n in_o pla●e_n be_v no_o good_a argument_n unless_o it_o be_v join_v with_o succession_n of_o doctrine_n the_o reason_n be_v this_o derivation_n of_o succession_n may_v agree_v to_o a_o false_a church_n ex_fw-la gr_n to_o the_o church_n of_o constantinople_n who_o reckon_v from_o andrew_n the_o apostle_n to_o the_o bishop_n that_o sit_v now_o which_o church_n notwithstanding_o you_o account_v unsound_a stapleton_n pronounce_v of_o the_o greek_a church_n in_o general_a that_o they_o can_v show_v a_o personal_a succession_n from_o the_o very_a apostle_n yet_o you_o account_v they_o not_o true_a church_n for_o they_o be_v not_o under_o your_o roman_a pope_n but_o against_o he_o 2._o your_o testimony_n of_o hierom_n make_v nothing_o for_o you_o for_o 1._o it_o grant_v that_o heretic_n may_v have_v father_n who_o child_n they_o be_v and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o succession_n 2._o that_o which_o it_o deny_v be_v that_o they_o have_v such_o riches_n as_o come_v by_o spiritual_a inheritance_n i._n e._n divine_a and_o wholesome_a truth_n the_o riches_n of_o the_o apostle_n successor_n it_o be_v a_o simple_a conceit_n to_o imagine_v that_o succession_n be_v the_o riches_n that_o man_n have_v by_o inheritance_n from_o their_o father_n their_o inherit_v of_o their_o father_n riches_n be_v not_o succession_n but_o succession_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o inherit_v they_o be_v but_o poor_a child_n that_o have_v only_o this_o that_o they_o can_v tell_v you_o they_o proceed_v from_o their_o father_n and_o succeed_v they_o such_o child_n be_v your_o pope_n they_o can_v tell_v you_o who_o be_v their_o father_n grandfather_n and_o great-grrandfath_a and_o this_o be_v their_o riches_n much_o good_a may_v they_o do_v they_o whilst_o protestant_a pastor_n have_v true_a doctrine_n the_o true_a riches_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o this_o testimony_n of_o hierom_n you_o add_v a_o reason_n to_o prove_v that_o derivation_n of_o succession_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o true_a church_n say_v its_o evident_a in_o itself_o by_o reason_n the_o true_a church_n be_v plant_v and_o establish_v before_o any_o false_a begin_v therefore_o must_v need_v be_v a_o non_fw-la plus_fw-la ultra_fw-la a_o stop_n and_o bar_v betwixt_o whatsoever_o counterfeit_a church_n and_o christ_n to_o keep_v off_o the_o like_a continuation_n of_o succession_n answ_n 1._o if_o it_o