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A35730 The foure cardinall-vertues of a Carmelite-fryar observed by Sir Edvvard Dering, knight and baronet ; and by him sent backe againe to their author Simon Stocke, alias Father Simons, alias Iohn Hunt, alias Anonymus Eremita. Dering, Edward, Sir, 1598-1644. 1641 (1641) Wing D1109; ESTC R31322 25,900 66

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The Foure Cardinall-Vertues of A Carmelite-Fryar Observed by Sir EDVVARD DERING Knight and Baronet And by him sent backe againe to their Author Simon Stocke alias Father Simons alias Iohn Hunt alias Anonymus Eremita 2. TIM. 3. 13. Evill men and Seducers shall waxe worse and worse deceiving and being deceived LONDON Printed by Iohn Raworth for Richard Whitaker and are to be sold at his shop in Pauls-Churchyard 1641. To the Right Honourable N. N. Sir EDVVARD DERING Knight and Baronet wisheth happinesse here and hereafter MAy it please your Honour In that which is so serious as Religion I dare not be a trifler nor can I love a man that is so Divinity is ever Grave neither toying nor yet sullen Piety and Gravity are twin sisters both descended from above owning their high birth from the supreme Sanctity and soveraigne Majesty of Heaven As they come from high so they descend lowe even to the center of a Man and take possession of his heart there they dwell and from thence they send forth like Rivers from their Spring-head many notable assurances of their residence there While that some vent Levity and Wickednesses because they have received Religion no deeper then into their braine Many men are Christians according to a certaine common since they have of Religion Now in the Braine of man The common Sence and the Phantasie are neere neighbors hard is the condition and yet the condition of some with whom Phansy leades the way These Brain-Christians are so much in skill that they forget Practice With the head a man may know even unto others wonder and his owne pride But with the heart a man beleeveth unto righteousnesse If this store-house be well filled The mouth will shew the aboundance of the heart within and then with the mouth confession is made unto salvation If coldnes or emptinesse be there you may finde it in the dull and barren language of the Speaker The most certain and most absolute symptome of a good heart well filled is Truth of what the Tongue delivers A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth good things Now nothing is good but Truth Truth it is one of the glorious titles and attributes which our Savi●ur in whom was found no guile hath taken to himselfe I am the Way saith he and the Truth c. All Fraud Falsehood and Lying are from Hell When the Devill speaketh a lie he speaketh of his owne for he is a●lyar and the father of it He began with a lye at first and it hath been his owne ever since Verum Evangelium veritatem amat veritatem colit veritate alitur Augel●i● saith your Andradius The true Gospel loveth the Truth honoreth the Truth hath nourishment and growth by Truth Maxentius Johannes affirmeth very well Nullum vitium est quod non sumat à mendacio initium neque vir●us cujus non sit origo veritas There is no vice which hath not beginning from a Lye nor any Vertue whose originall is not Truth If after this you finde me wittingly false in any assertion or in any authority which I shall produce your Lordship hath here I have sent it wherewith to stop shame into my mouth But if by these following papers your Honour finde your old Anonymus false and fowly false on whose side must he be and they that follow him Christ and Truth go together wo to the adverse party they are enemies and must be one day under foot When this old Souldier had often pretended much valor to encounter any man that I should bring and had almost perswaded me into an opinion of his Ability At last in neere two yeeres time being pressed by me he concluded plainely ●o discourse with none Some were married I undertook for ene unmarried Others were skilled in the Easterne languages I undertooke that no word should be instanced but English and Latine Then it was dangerous I undertooke that also upon my owne head Lastly it was to no purpose And indeed I found it to no purpose to presse him farther Quo fronte quâ fide with what forehead he made these darings with what faith he hath performed them I well remember and can justifie Herein he is guilty of much untruth Yet lest he might seeme to have a guilty cause as well as a pretensed valour his pen was ready against all men and he offered me the choice to designe unto him upon what particular subject hee should write I answered him that I was so confident and so assured of the Truth and goodnesse of our Religion that I gave him liberty in all the latitude of Controversies betwixt us to make his owne choice even there where he thought himself ablest and the best provided onely desiring that he would be curious to pick out his best arguments and that he would be briefe He promised a speedy discharge and made his present election to prove Saint Peters supremacy I said I was glad he had pitched on a point so materiall but said I you have taken one as difficult for you to prove as I could wish It is now a twelve-moneth since yet hath this man herein been as mute as death Is he not guilty of another untruth I am little at leisure and the least of any in skill for these Eristicke discourses but I serve Truth and that will prevaile I do therefore againe and againe exact and challenge him to performe his undertaking in that subject and with that brevity as was promised In the meane time having perused foure severall Treatises of his writing two in print and two under the pen I have good cause to aske How well he can justifie what I finde in them not in the whole Treatises they are not of such weight and worth but in foure passages taken severally one out of each Treatise Nor will I pick out that which is sleight and easie Nor will I take lesse then what I finde concerning one entire passage and the particular subject there handled The Reasons why I am bold to present the trouble hereof unto your Lordships hand are few yet enough to exact this of mee Foure they are and very powerfull with me Duty Gratitude Good manners and Piety First in way of Duty I do owe the First fruits of my pen in matters of Religion unto the person if hee were living but now unto the happy memory of This first motive leades me fairely on unto my second which is Gratitude to your Lordship in whose Noble Person and deare love his Lordship now lives more then in all the world beside Your Favours great and many all free and noble like your selfe have obliged me to this Gratitude And among many other the many earnest and affectionate wishes zealously and prayer-like expressed for my embracing that Religion which your Lordship hath with strong beliefe for true lodged in your owne soule though in truth to the great hazard of that
the three was so farre from Orthography that it was no Greek Furthermore not to teach you I have more modesty but to shew you that I have otherwise learned then as you expound I do finde that {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} the word in this text is derived from {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} just as the Latine Donum from Dono and because gifts are given and presented with the hand Pliny doth tell you Graeci Antiqui {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Palmum vocabant ideo {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} munera quia manu darentur The ancient Greeks called the Palme of the hand {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and therefore called gifts {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} because with the hand they were given By this time it appears seasonable for me to use the words of your own Doctor Triple-cord 5. All sides agree that it is most impious to corrupt the words or true sence of Scripture by adding or substracting mistranslating or false interpreting But you appear guilty of mistranslating and of corrupting the sence of Scripture Ergo All sides c. It further appeareth that setting aside the fraud of your word Hoast this Text doth not speak of Sacrifice but of gifts of Gifts brought by the people not offered for the offering is stayed the words of our Saviour are plain who stops the offering thus If thou bring thy gift c. and there c. go and then come and offer Not as your Rhemist and you worse then they If thou offer go and then come and offer c. Which can hardly be made a sensible period I have an old Manuscript that concurreth very well herein it is of this Gospel by Saint Matthew written before the Bible was divided into Chapters together with a brief commentary thereon where the word relinque ibi munus leave there thy gift is expounded Differ offerre Deferre to offer The meaning is that though thou bring thy gift yet thou may est not offer thy gift because our Saviour commandeth the offering of it not the bringing it to be stayed untill reconcilement first tendred And then come and offer thy gift as our Saviour saith So that your text here alleaged viz. If thou offer thy Hoast must be new Englished thus If thou bring thy gift You saw that from this Altar in this Text you could by no Analogy prove your Romish Altars therefore to draw it nearer to you you thought good to mend the Text hoping thereby to gull some English Readers who finding Offer Hoast and Altar all in a breath a period might then swallow you Roman sence in all Are these your Piae fraudes light and darknesse Truth and a lye shall meet together with the same greeting as Fraud and Pietie I can not disgest this corrupted Text of yours untill I have made this expostulatory question to you which I finde in Athanasius {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} What folly of immodesty is this in you to speak things that are not written and to conceit things different from Pietie Now the Text is freed make your best use of it If you would prove the point in controversie why do you not make your inference upon the Text and so conclude and tye it to your cause here is no such work You do not look I hope that I should make your argument for you If you do I can make no more but this Our Saviour preaching of forgivenesse and brotherly attonement upon injuries received biddeth us Leave our gift before the Altar and be reconciled So doth our Church when in our approach to the holy Communion we are charged If any of us be in maliee c. not to come to the holy Table Which Holy Table is both Table and Altar properly a Table improperly an Altar primarily a Table where in a holy and most admirable Communion we receive the body and bloud of Iesus Christ Secondarily an Altar but improperly so called where immediately after We do offer our selves our soules and bodies to be a reasonable holy and lively Sacrifice If you mark it well you shall finde the name of Table in the first age of Christianity to have the forehand of the word Altar I need not prove this to you further then by your learned Cardinall Apostoli non utebantur nominibus Sacerdotii Sacrificii Templi Altaris c. The Apostles did not use the name of Priesthood Sacrifice Temple Altar If then the first age did un-learn the use of Altars and gave us the use of a Table what would you prove unlesse in your proof you confesse the name of Altar to be reducible to the use of Table The holy Scriptures tell me that the blessed Sacrament was celebrated at or upon a Table So Saint Luke 22. 21. {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} on the Table And that I might not doubt what manner of Table this {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} was Saint Luke again doth tell me 16.2 that Lazarus desired to be fed with the crums which fell {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} from the Table The same word in both places I finde again that the twelve Apostles did ordain seven Deacons because they would not themselves intermit their praying and preaching {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} to serve Tables Which Tables you will not doubt were Sacramentall Tables could you finde two such Texts for your Altars how quick you would be upon me But now I suppose you will be quiet And that you may guesse how un-altar-like these Tables were you may take the Grammarians Etymology of the word {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} from {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} a foure-footed Table The same word used by Nonnus of Panopolis who describeth our Saviour and his Apostles sitting round about the Table which posture an Altar cannot admit {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} It is time to close and make an end of this piece I desire to avoide all tedious prolixity yet am guilty before I am aware But have patience and read the Holy Fathers Athanasius Ambrose and Augustine upon this very Text by you alleaged Athanasius quaest. ad Antiochum qu. 73. calleth this gift {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} Prayer For which the propriety of your Altar is no use S. Ambrose will teach you what gift and what Altar also in his Book de vitiorum virtutumque conflictu c. 9. Munus nostrum est oratio nostra Altare vero nostrum est cor. Our gift is our prayer our Altar is our heart You will confesse that to be an invisible Altar Saint Augustine also de verbis Domini Serm. 16. expoundeth what gift is here expected saying Te quarit Deus God seeketh thee And I hope we may offer up our selves without the help of a materiall proper Altar I do think
secreta cordis To know the cogitations of the heart is the property of God Therefore the Angels know not the secrets of the heart And againe Cognoscere singularia cogitata facta corum non est de perfectione intellectus creati To know particulars and the thoughts and acts of them is not of the perfection of a created understanding Dominicus ●annes saith Nullus beatus videt in divina essentia omnia individua omnes cogitationes eorum c. No blessed Saint doth see in the divine Essence all individualls or all their thoughts c. Durandus Si quaeratur an beati cognitione beata cognoscunt orationes nostras dicendum quod non If the question be whether the blessed Saints in their blessed knowledge do know our prayers it is to be answered they do not If not our prayers then not the secret of our hearts Take one word more more worth then All It is a peece of that excellent prayer of King Solomon at the dedication of the Temple where he beseeching God to hear the prayers of every man and of all the people there to be made acknowledgeth the omniscient glory of God in these words For thou even thou onely knowest the hearts of all the children of men Now I shall never hear more of you in this point But what a delinquency of Reason and common sence is this to pretend proof for Thought of heart and to bring none but for Things done Is not this Folly CHAP. III. Foul-Language FRom Foily to Foul-Language That is the progresse of many who when they are pressed with a bad cause or do labour in their own Ignorance they rather then submit will flye to Rayling Language a sure signe and absolute Symptome that the brain is empty of good or the heart full of ill I need not part and divide this peece your self have figured it into four and twenty I will presume so much upon your new age and a sober reveiw of them that you will not expect from me a confutation of those things whereof you will be now ashamed to hear the repetition I have shewn this peece to divers of your own religion who all turn from it as from grosse and unsavory railing But to the particulars In your Treatise Iesus Maria Ioseph Chap. 70. Pag. 370. Your charity bestowing on us the odious name of hereticks thus you begin 1. They say they are justified by Faith onely without keeping the Commandements and Saint Iames saith The divels beleeve and tremble 2. They say they can do no good works but that all their best works are of their own nature worthy of eternall pains and the works of the divels can be no worse 3. They say they cannot merit no more can divels 4. They say they have no inherent grace no more have divels 5. They say that notwithstanding all the repentance which they can make yet their sinnes still remain in them and so is it with divels 6. They have no Masse or memory of our Saviour voluntarily offering up himself for our redemption no more have divels 7. They do not pray to Angels or Saints to pray unto God for them no more do divels 8. They have no respect or reverence to pictures or images of God or his Saints no more have divels 9. They do not esteem of the Sacrament of penance or confession no more do divels 10. They do not reverence the bodies and reliques of Saints no more do divels 11. They beat down crosses and crucifixes and in all hell there is not found one 12. They say they cannot blesse or give a blessing to any creature no more can divels 13. They say that they cannot love God with all their hearts nor keep his Commandements no more can divels 14. They have no Sacraments which conferre grace no more have divels 15. They hate ceremonies and divels use none 16. They say they have no free will to do good no more have divels 17. They use no indulgences no more do divels 18. All may teach and preach amongst them and so it is amongst the divels 19. They have no holy or consecrated places no more have divels 20. They use no holy water or holy oyles no more do divels 21. They have no purgatory no more have divels 22. They have no Altars or Sacrifices no more have divels 23. They alleage Scriptures according to their own private judgement and so did the divels Luk. 4. 24. Their whole congregation may erre and so may all the divels Are not these all together a masse of Fraud Folly and Foul-Language Finde one if you can and chuse it out of the 24. which is true serious and relisheth of a Christian Spirit I am none of them that will {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} and if any man seem to be contentious we have no such custome neither the Churches of God It were a silly endeavour to stampe the same mettall into the like coine and so pay you as you deserve Yet take a taste and call for more as you like it They the Papists do require the worship of Images so do divels They say they have power among them to work miracles so hath Satan 2 Thes. 2. 9. The Pope assumeth power to dispose of Kingdomes so did the divell Matth. 4. 9. They practice and allow of equicocation so did the divel in his oracles Is not this good stuff make your own choice and expound your self upon any one of your 24. and conclude and here I take upon me to shew you that your own inference is foul and either foolish or false Leave and change you self unto Truth and a better temper least it be said unto you as Revel. 22. 11. He which is filthy let him be filthy still CHAP. IIII. Of Blasphemy THe last is worst You may be ashamed of the former but I am afraid to read and repeat what is to come I received a treatise from you by Dan. Sted but was not willing to believe it yours untill since you did own it to me more then once It is an appeal unto King Iames under the name of Io. Hunt Printed Anne Dom. 1620. How basely and with how foul a mouth you speak there of that excellent and admirable Queen Elizabeth is unfit for any man to foul his pen with more unfit for you who were her subject born so to vomit against your dead Prince and most unfit for any good Christian so much as to think But it is a happinesse to her and us that ranke malice hath made and invented lyes so grosse and palpable that it hath destroyed it own intended mischief So sometime a rabid anger may make a curre bite out his own Teeth You have herein exceeded all that ever I have met withall but the reason is as in Ovid Non tibi plus cordis sed minus oris inest which is well rendred in prose by Erasmus Non plus audes aut sapis