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B21542 A musick-lector, or, The art of musick (that is so much vindicated in Christendome) discoursed of by way of dialogue between three men of several judgments the one a musician and master of that art, and zealous for the Church of England ..., the other a Baptist ..., the other a Quaker (so called) ... / written by Solomon Eccles. Eccles, Solomon, 1618-1683. 1667 (1667) Wing E129 22,469 30

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personal appearance or by a vocal voice that may be heard by the outward ear Mu. Then we must all conclude that he teacheth invisibly and in silence if not by voice nor personal appearance to the outward eye nor outward ear and by this methinks you seem to justifie the Quakers Silent-meetings Qua. We ask no favour of him nor thee nor any man living to worship our God neither any mans counsel or approbation whether we are in the right Worship or no but by way of Argument because the Worshippers in England do wonder and gaze so much at us in our Silent-meetings Now if the Devil do teach his to lye and swear by an evil spirit who is the father of all lyars how much more may the true God who is blessed for evermore teach his and lead his into all Truth as it is said and they shall all be taught of God Isa 53. 13. and in silence as to the outward ear the enemy of mans Salvation teacheth his all ungodliness may not the Lord that good Spirit teach his in silence to deny all ungodliness and worldly lusts And as thou hast said and hast said true That the Devil is a spirit and comes not to man to speak to him by personal appearance or a vocal voice to mens outward ear but yet he layes baits before the eyes of their minds and snares to murder and to commit Adultery to steal and rob over-reach cheat and cozen and may not the Lord teach his to do to all men as they would be done by For where I my self had done wrong before Conversion came the Spirit of Truth brought it to my remembrance again where I had over-reacht and cheated and made me to make restitution again this teaching I witness and made me pay back again many a pound and that with advantage also Oh! I commend the teaching of the Spirit above all teachings O glory be to his Name for ever Exod. 22. 3. Numb 6. 7. Mu. Well but my Friend I cannot pass you by any longer pray let me know why you forsook so good a Calling Qua. While I was taught of men I could follow it viz. When the Church of England was govern'd by Episcopal Order I could follow it and call'd it the gift of God and when I became more strict a Presbyter I made a trade of it and never question'd it at all and after that I became an Independant I could follow it and when I came further and was baptized with water and eat Bread and Wine with them about the year 1642. they encouraged me in it and some of them had their Children taught on the Virginals but I went further and was an Antinomian so called and then I could teach mens Sons and Daughters on the Virginals and on the Viol and I got the two last years more than an hundred and thirty pounds a year with my own hands and lived very high and perceived that the longer I followed it the greater in-come I had but when Truth came I was not able to stand before it the Lord did thunder grievously against this practice and I would fain have pleaded the harmlesness of it but no pleading would serve it was nothing but vanity and vexed the good Spirit of God O it was hard to flesh and blood to give it up for it was not only my livelihood but my life was in it Now the Witness of God did often smite me for it before I could yeeld to the Lord to give up so that sometimes it put me to a stand and then reasonings arose whether it was a lawful Calling and while I with the wrong thing strove to prove it lawful that pure thing that was sent of God it took away my peace from me O the goodness and forbearance of the Lord to me for what was I that the Lord should strive so with me lest I should have gone on to my everlasting destruction Then was I at a stand what I should do for a livelihood but the Holy-One caught hold on me and said Am not I alsufficient give up for I have a great work for thee to do But my life was so much in the thing that he made me to feel his sharp Sword which divided between me and my lovers Mu. But Friend you undervalue Musick too much 't is true that if in case you had been a Fidler it had been no great matter if you had cast it off but to teach mens sons and daughters on the Virginals and on the Viol it is as harmless a Calling as any man can follow How say you Sir Bap. Truly I do not see but he might have followed it still as he us'd it and as you say me thinks it is a very harmless Calling there is sufficient proof of Scripture for the lawfulness thereof only in this one thing the Quakers must be singular Qua. I have heard divers men and some of all Religions and almost all people especially those of the Universities do highly commend Musick but O the Truth the Spirit of Truth nor the Children of Truth can never bear it but Truth and her Children do trample it under foot 't is Babylons Musick and down it must and shall for ever And since I through the good hand of God had an eye open in me to see where I stood I soon sided with the Truth and stood off from the reasoning part and then the Zeal of God rose up as hot as fire and I greatly loathed my self to see what cursed ground I stood in and I reckon it a happy day that I was redeemed out of a vain practice Acts 19. 19. Mu. But prethee thou mad Quaker hold a little for thou wrests the Scriptures as many of you do to your own destructions for they were Magicians not Musicians that burnt their Books of great price Qua. That which taught them taught me to deny ungodliness and will teach all that will turn to it to deny ungodliness and curious Arts and is not Musick a curious Art wilt thou deny it Mu. T is true Musick is a curious Art but will you say 't is ungodliness take heed what you say lest you pull an old house upon your head for we are no Fidlers but are sober men and in a sober Calling and that which delights the ears of Kings and wise men and grave sage men and the honourablest men and women in the Nation do highly esteem of Musick Qua. That which is highly esteemed amongst men is abomination to the Lord reade Luke 16. 15. And why dost thou make such a difference between those called Fidlers and you who call your selves Musicians for my own part since I came to the Truth it self I do see indeed that I being a Teacher in Musick it might have this stile above the other for I count it was a civil Devil and the Fidler more prophane but both are for the Lake that practise it except they do repent Mat. 9. 23. Rev. 18. 22. Mu. Are they
thou and learn of that Woman and go sweep the house and light the Candle that thou mayest find the lost Groat or Pearl Christ Jesus in thy heart and be not faithless but believe This is in love to you Baptists who are loytering away your precious time for that which never did nor can make perfect Acts 1. 11. Luke 15. 9. Bap. Perfect Why it is a very great question to me whether ever any man was perfect in this Life saving Christ himself nay or ever can be 'T is true indeed you Quakers do hold such Tenets but I do not believe it therefore prove it me by Scripture if you can from Genesis to the end of the Revelations See I have given thee the whole Bible to prove it but you Quakers deny the Scripture Qu. Thou hast given me Scripture room sufficient that 's true but to say the Quakers deny the Scripture in that thou beliest the Innocent Job 4. 7. Bap. Well I have given you Scripture-room enough but I believe you cannot do it for I have searched the Scriptures as well as any of you Qua. But thou mayest erre not knowing the Scriptures nor yet the Power of God Noah was a Just man and Perfect in his Generation Gen. 6. 9. Here was a Just and Perfect man approved of God himself And again God gave testimony of Enoch That he pleased God for he walked with God and was not for God took him and before his translation he had this testimony That he pleased God Gen. 5. 24. Heb. 11. 5. And again the Lord justified Abraham after he had said unto him Walk before me and be thou perfect and Abraham did so for God bore testimony of him and said Abraham obeyed my Voice and kept my Charge my Commandments my Statutes and my Laws Gen. 26. 5. Yea verily and Abraham was called The Friend of God And again God bore testimony of Job That he was a perfect man that did fear God and eschewed evil Job 1. Now Friend Here are four men whom God bore witness off What hast thou against them And David was a man after Gods own heart and God bore witness of him that he failed in nothing saving in the matter of Uriah the Hittite 1 Kings 15. 5. And who did ever go beyond him in his repentance Yet after this he did witness a perfect state For said he God is my strength he maketh my way perfect 2 Sam. 22. 33. And again I will walk within my house with a perfect heart Psal 101. 2. And King Hezekiah said Lord remember now I beseech thee how I have walked before thee in Truth and with a perfect heart Isa 38. 3. And saith David Mark the Perfect man behold the Vpright the End of that man is Peace Psal 37. 37. And again The Lord hath not seen Iniquity in Jacob nor Perversness in Israel as thou mayest read Numb 23. 21. And again They that are in Christ Jesus are New Creatures I in them and they in me perfect in one John 17. And Be you Perfect as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect Mat. 5. And saith the Apostle We speak wisdom to them that are Perfect 1 Cor. 2. 6. 2 Cor. 2. 11. Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods Elect Rom. 8. And saith Paul That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus Col. 1. 28. Ephes 4. 12. Col. 4. 12. 1 Thes 3. 10. 2 Thes 3. 17. Heb. 7. 19. Heb. 10. 14. Heb. 12. 23. Heb. 13. 21. Jam. 2. 22. Jam. 3. 2. 1 Pet. 5. 10. 1 John 4. 18. Rev. 14. 5. Mu. Truly Friend Baptist we are all out of the way we have spoke too much by hearsay of them that they do deny the Scriptures I would you had not said so But I see the poor Quakers put up much wrong for we have had very hard thoughts of them and they have been derided and mocked and hated of many insomuch that they have been punished to death many of them but for my part I shall be silent hereafter for I see they have been misrepresented And although we have said No man can be Perfect in this Life yet who is able to withstand these sound Scriptures and I have heard many say That a man may come to be as wicked as the Devil himself but t●uly I do believe that God is above the Devil yet I do not excuse my self for I am a grievous sinner and never look to come to such a state as to be Perfect in this Life Bap. Why no. For the righteousest man that is sins seven times a day Yea John himself said he was a sinner or else he would not have said We for the word we implies himself as well as they But if we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us Qu. Do not bely the Scripture nor the Spirit that gave it forth for holy men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost and it no where saith That the righteousest man that is sins seven times a day But Stand in awe and sin not And as for John he was a holy man a Divine and could not sin but he wrote to Children first that they might have fellowship with them who were Apostles But they being Children had not fellowship with them who had fellowship with the Father and with the Son Jesus Christ because they were subject to sin And besides Children are apt to sin and to think themselves better than they are which made the Apostle say this If we say we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness we lye and do not the truth Mark For this I do affirm That if John had said he had been a sinner he had lyed for no sinner hath fellowship with God For He that commits sin is of the Devil and God hath no fellowship with Devils But he that is born of God doth not commit sin And John was born of God as he said though he came to his own yet his own received him not but to as many as received him to them gave he power to become the Sons of God and John did receive him who were born mark not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of God Yet the Apostle did use a condescending word to the Children in saying We. But let all men take heed how they call that common which God hath cleansed Yet this I say in the truth of God That if any shall say they have no sin when Gods Witness in them doth condemn them for sin they then make God a lyar and we are all sensible that God will not clear the guilty But if we confess our s●ns he is just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness And again If we shall say that we have not sinned we lye and do not the truth But he that is born of God sinneth not for his s●ed remaineth in him and he cannot