that they are or may be so far from being ashamed to own this Truth as that it is or shall be your sin and shame too first or last to reckon this among the Errors of the Saints but this is that which hath been the substance of your Discourse and shall be of mine in Answer to you Therefore I shall pass it in this place onely one word take notice of There is mention in Scripture of preaching by persons in Office by Ordination and Gift but I say not that you are the men and there is preaching by way of Gift only and although all gifted brethren preach not as men in Office and Ordained yet all gifted brethren may preach for the edifying of the body of Christ according to the measure of the gift given them Rom 12. 4 9. with 1 Cor. 14. 31. and 1 Pet. 4. 10. 11. 3. That God reveals his will not only by the written Word but by Dreams and Visions which they believe more then the word c. Answ First if this be truth that some do hold this Principle is it strange and ridiculous unto you hath not God revealed truth to his people formerly by Dreams and Revelations and dare you deny it and reprove it now is God limited or his hand shortned although it s true I say that I believe God doth not often reveal himself thus unto his people now yet I dare not limit the holy One of Israel to this or that particular way and put case some may transgress in this particular yet I dare say you as deeply trangress one the other hand 1. To judg the thing it self for the miscarriage of some in it And 2. In laying it as an odium upon all when it is perhaps the judgement but of a few if of any at all for mine own particular although I dare not be so audacious as to judge the thing it self God having formerly revealed himself to his servants in this way yet I know none who profess themselves to have experience of this viz. the knowledge of truth by Dreams and Visions whether you know any such or no or whether it be one of the whimsies of your head I leave 2. They you say deny all consequences from Scripture though never so clear and require express Scripture Answ You are mistaken man in this too they deny unnecessary and untrue consequences such as you will often draw for your own ends and if some tender souls will not permit you to draw any consequences from Scripture thank your selves for it who have by your many lying and false consequences given them just cause to suspect you and to believe none of your consequences at all your consequences are such as these 1. Baptism is come in the room of Circumcision infants were circumcised therefore infants must be Baptized A goodly consequence as true as Scripture if the people would but believe it they should never know that the Law and Circumcision came by Moses and that Grace and Truth and Gospel-Ordinances came by Jesus Christ John 1. 17. 2. The Apostles baptized housholds there might be Children therefore children may be baptized Another goodly consequence as true as Scripture if the people will but believe it it is enough and why may not the simple Anabaptists as you account them draw another consequence that will devour and swallow up yours at once that is There are no children mentioned in those families and if any it was contrary to the command of Christ and known practice of the Apostles to Baptize them and families take their denomination from the major part or the ruling part therefore there might be no children and if any yet they might not be Baptized therefore this is no good foundation for such a practice I could instance divers such like consequences of yours as Children were brought to Christ therefore they may be Baptised c. but I can give you but a hint and away but if some tender ones dare not believe your consequences thank your selves for it in abusing them so grosly in this nature 4. Tenet That the Saints in this life are pure without spot c. What Sir will you still persist in your wickedness and ignorance hath not this been the language of the worst of men in all Ages of the world against honesty and honest men they are too pure too holy are you like them ignorant of the Scripture Cant. 4 7. chap 6. 9 10. 1 John 4. 17. its true in their own sight they see their spots and sins but as related to the Lord in the covenant of Grace they see themselves in him justified clothed and covered with his own righteousness there is no spot at all in them and whereas you say they need not make use of that Petition Forgive us our sins you manifest your ignorance of the truth for that which they say is that while a soul lives in the enjoyment of mercy and love it s then form or custom that carrieth him to that Petition but when a soul apprehends the want of pardon let him ask it 5. Tenet No man can with a good conscience exercise the office of a Magistrate under the New Testament Ans This with divers others being altogether false I shall joyn them up together as being not worth the speaking to in particular the 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 22 24 25 26 27 28 29. I joyn up these together because they are all of them forged lyes inventions come from hell of purpose to scandal Truth and Saints and therefore in this I shall be bold to say to you as Christ to the Pharisees You are of your father the Devil because his works you will do for he was a lyar from the beginning and its obvious to all mens knowledge who are not willingly blinded that they are honest in their Conversations and prefer honesty in their Congregations more then your selves if they meet with any such principles or practises they expel them have no society with them nor their owners they look diligently lest any profane person arise and defile others but its your selves are the men that are guilty of these crimes you lay to others charge I wonder how you durst be so impudent as to charge that upon others of which you are guilty your selves your selves it is that entertain in your Congregations notorious offenders adulterers drunkards swearers c. and none comes amiss with you but if God begin to enlighten any soul to see into the evil and ignorance of his former wayes he shall be the butt you shoot your arrows at and you judge him to hell presently for a Sectary Thus you feed not the sheep but wolves and goats with lyes and vanity but you kill them that are fed Your selves it is that are seditious and tumultuous Who preached Parliament and King into a War at first in England but the Episcopal and Presbyterian Factions and left the Parliament again in their greatest streights
grace of Christ doubt not but that I shall rout you in them all Fourthly I shall discover the weakness of your answers unto those objections you produce for Laymens preaching Fifthly and lastly Your six Arguments to prove your Ministers free from Antichristianism examined and found too light and six more asserted proving them to be Antichristian And now Sir to the business in hand and first to the Title of your Book The Pulpit Guarded I have two words to minde you here 1. I perceive you are turned Souldier Sir are you not besides your Calling but whom do you guard the Pulpit forsooth what doth the Pulpit want guarding your high and holy place are you yet such Pharisees notwithstanding the light shines and the Sun of righteousness is arising with healing in his wings that you must have the uppermost rooms at Feasts and the chief seats in the Synagogues and be called of men Rabbi But Sir in good earnest is it truth that the Pulpit needs your guard are gifted brethren as you call them grown so high as that they dare adventure into your Pulpit and will you guard the Pulpit from them and not only the Pulpit but you would guard all preaching from them too as there ever such a thing as this heard of what to guard the Pulpit from preaching brethren Did ever Christ and his Apostles do the like did you ever finde any one in Scripture guarding the Pulpit and preaching from the Saints I challenge you in the name of the Lord to come forth and produce any one in the Scripture I say again any one unless the Pope or the Devill that hath done the like work as you have done Was this the practice of Christ Mar. 9. 38 39. The Disciples seeing one cast out Devils in the name of Christ they forbade him because he followed not Christ but Jesus said Forbid him not for there is no man which shal do a Miracle in my name which can likely speak evil of me the reason is for he that is not against me is on our part But 2. The persons you mention with whom you disputed and as you say occasioned this Pulpit discourse was a Nailer a Baker a Plough-right a Weaver and a Bakers-boy and it appears clearly in this and all your discourse in which you often mention them that you mention them in way of reproach as if it were a reproach and scandal for a Nailer a Baker a Plough-right and a Weaver to preach the Gospel I cannot but take notice of two things in this particular First ignorance Secondly envy 1. Your ignorance and that under two considerations First Ignorance in not knowing else wilfulness in not acknowledging that God hath alwaies and in all Ages of the world hitherto made and will make use of men of Callings to be the Ministers of his will unto the people as Moses David Elisha Peter Paul c. And I challenge you again to produce any example in the Scripture that ever God made choice of any to be Ministers of his minde unto the people who were bred up idly all the daies of their life without a Calling as the Priests of our times have been that whereas idleness is forbidden in all Ages and God hath called men of particular Callings to minister in the Gospel forsooth we must have idlers and them only Drones that never knew what it was to live lawfully in the world by a particular Calling that must be put into the Priests office that they may eat a piece of bread cloath themselves with the wooll and feed themselves with the fat and none must preach but themselves lest their idleness and baseness should be discovered Object There are many Prophets and Ministers in the Scripture their Callings are not mentioned Answ True but it s enough first that many nay most are mentioned 2. Idleness was forbidden and was altogether unlawfull therefore we may not judge that God made choice of idlers because they were so nay that it is the devils choice and Sodoms sin pride and idleness Object The Ministers are not bred up idly as you say but have particular Callings being bred up to learning which is a calling Answ That is no calling for a calling is that in and by which men may in the sweat of their face get their living Gen. 3. 19. Ephes 4. 28. breeding to school is proper to children when they cannot labour to fit them for some calling Prov. 22. 6. Secondly ignorance in not knowing that its that which tends most to the glory of God and that wherein his power wisdom c. is the more made manifest and magnified in gifting weak ones and this he doth that no man might glory in his presence nor in his own wisdom parts arts sciences c. that men might not give the glory to those outward base things of the world which belongs to God and of this it seems you and the men of your generation are ignorant worse and more blind if not wilfull then those Act. 4. 13. When they saw the boldness of Peter and John and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant they marvelled and took knowledge of them that they had been with Jesus But you are so blind that you cannot take knowledge of your gifted brethren that they have been with Jesus you are ignorant of that truth Psal 8. 2. Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger God ordains strength out of the mouths of babes and sucklings that way making his power and wisdom to appear that so he might still the enemy and the avenger but you are such an enemy that you will not take notice of Gods working in this way but you will be an enemy the more and avenge the more and blaspheme the free operation of the Spirit in the Saints Pharisee like Mat. 12. a dangerous sin Secondly Envy against the Lord and against his people envyest thou for my sake saith Moses Numb 11. 29. Would God that all the Lords people were Prophets Oh saith the Priest but we will have no Prophets nor Preachers but our selves it s a profitable trade by this we have our gain our profit our honour upheld our back and belly clad and fed our pride and ambitious lusts maintained but if you suffer Mecanick fellows men of Trades and particular Callings to preach we lose all they will tell truth to the people and for this it is you envy them Now to your Looking-glass for Anabaptists as you call them Their first Tenent and Error you say is That Infant Baptism is a childish needless thing and that none must be baptized before they come to perfect age and can make confession of his faith that Infant-Baptism came from the Pope and the Devil Ans This I own for truth although in many places you abuse them writing lying vanities the visions of your own head I shall therefore
briefly run through it 1. Owning confirming their own principles wherein your ignorance and wo will appear in calling light darkness and darkness light 2. In discovering your folly and falshood in charging them with things they never owned wherein your envy and malice will appear The first Tenent I must speak to in its parts 1. That Infant-Baptism is childish and needless Answ It 's truth and that upon a double account 1. As relating to the subject the Childe who is to be baptized not understanding what is to be done neither the use and end of it and I suppose you cannot but grant that on the Infants part there is nothing but childishness from first to last Object The Infants of the Children of Israel were as uncapable in the understanding of the mysterie of Circumcision as Infants are now of Baptism yet they were by the command of God to be circumcised Answ To this I shall return a threefold answer 1. It s truth that one part of Circumcisions mysterie viz. the Circumcision of the heart was as far from the capacity of Infants as the mysterie of Baptism is now Yet 2. As Circumcision was a type and sign in the flesh of Christ who was to come of Abrahams seed and was to continue till Christ and Grace was come there was not such a capacity required for this was a Jewish and legal type as all the rest of their external Worships and Sacrifices were leading to or representing of the coming of Christ in the flesh but this of Baptism a lively representation and manifestation of the souls faith and knowledge of Christs being already come both in the flesh and in the Spirit without him and within him as likewise a visible demonstration to the world of the souls owning this Christ thus come for him in him by his Spirit c. this is not to be found within the capacity of Children Infants But 3. There was a command for that of Circumcision but none for that of Baptism and the command is it that gives the party a capacity of submission to the thing commanded Infants of Abrahams naturall seed were commanded to be circumcised Infants of the spirituall seed children of the faith of Abraham are commanded to be baptized Mar. 16. 16. Act. 8. 37. with Gal. 3. from the 26. to the end Secondly It s childish as relating to the Administrators and truly I think this is the most moderate term that you or I can give it for Childish relates to ignorance or want of knowledge but I am afraid that in many of you its wilfulness Childishness relates to ignorance Paul saith When he was a child he understood as a child c. And in malice be ye children but in understanding be ye men Your childish ignorance consists in not understanding the command of your Lord and the mysterie of his Covenant only to and with the spirituall seed those in whose hearts his Law is written not distinguishing between Law and Gospel Covenant of Moses and Covenant of Christ Jer. 31. 32 33. The Ordinances Subjects and Commands of the one and of the other Deut. 18. 15. Act. 3. 22. 2. Childish ignorance wilfulness and untowardness falling out with your brethren to whom God hath given more understanding in the mystery of his will reproaching scandalizing Truth it self like children rejoycing in the counter the bauble something like the Truth suffering your selves to be cheated by the Devil and deluded out of the Truth it self And it being such a childish thing hence it follows it s a needless thing no need of that which flows from ignorance no need of that which is not required its will-worship and formerly you had so much reason and Religion in you as to say that any thing done in the worship of God which had no command was will-worship but now when it concerns your selves it seems the case is altered 3. And that none must be Baptized till they come to perfect age and can wake confession of their Faith And is this such a strange thing with you who profess your self a Minister of the Gospel as that you make it such a dangerous Tenent as to scorn it and to account those who hold and practise it such dangerous Sectaries as you do was not Christ himself baptized at thirty years of age the Eunuch by Philip Act. 8. and those of John who came and confessed their sins and those converted at Peters Sermon and yet dare you to reproach this practice would you not account Christ and his Apostles Anabaptists if they were now living Object That was the first plantation of the Churches but now the Churches are planted therefore Infants are to be baptized Answ Was there one Rule for them in the infancy and another for you now If any such thing pray produce it let us see the Scripture but if no other Rule or Command to you then was to them be ashamed and tremble for ever to reproach this Principle and Practice unless you be resolved to deny Christ and to be the great Antichrist sitting in the seat of God exalting your self above all that is called God 4. That Infant-baptism came from the Pope and the Devill And I pray from whence came it else First it came not from Christ it is nowhere reckoned amongst his sayings or the Apostles Writings Therefore first it came from the Pope as your Calling did and you brought it from Rome with you therefore it was well confest by a man of your Coat once discoursing about Infants-baptism that it came from Rome its true said he it came from Rome so did we for all was involved up in the Romish Religion but we are come forth and bring out our Ordinances with us and so refine them that they are now no longer the Ordinances of Rome but of Christ were they once the Ordinances of Rome and now of Christ a strange change when the truth is that they are but Anabatized or nick named with the name of the Ordinances of Christ they are as much and as truly the Ordinances of Rome as ever this is such an evident truth as that he that runs may read it Secondly it came from the Devil I say not because it came from Rome for the Pope possibly may hold some Truth but if it came not from Christ then it came from the Devil and out of that bottomless Pit mentioned in Revelations of mans inventions The Devil and mans deceitful heart joyning and juggling together forms up something in the likeness of truth this is that mystery of Iniquity mentioned in Scripture something like truth but is not truth therefore wisdom is required for the understanding of it not your University Wisdom Arts and Sciences but that Wisdom which is from above which is pure peaceable c. The second Tenent you lay to their charge is That all gifted persons may preach without Ordination This likewise is such an evident and undoubted Truth to all men living in the Light
when you had but thoughts that your own interest would not stand who are turned Traytors to their native Country ready to joyn with Scots or Devil in the ruine of it Your selves or those you call Anabaptists who are they at present that endeavour to kindle a fire in the neighbour Nations to burn up their own your selves or the Anabaptists In a word who are they that refuse or at least murmur against promising fidelity to the Magistrate in the common good your selves or the Anabaptists Let truth be judge and acknowledge your mistake and be ashamed for ever thus grosly to belye the truth and its servants laying your own blame and shame upon other mens shoulders And put case there be any that pretend themselves to be Christians in that profession you so much contemn that dishonour truth in any of these particulars mentioned by you Yet how dare you say they are such all of them laying the scandal upon the whole as if because there was one Judas all the Disciples must be Hypocrites But Sir if we should judge of you after this manner we could say more of you then you shall ever be able to say of us I trust I could tell you of Priests Free-willers Drunkards Swearers Whore-masters what not should I therefore say you are all such men but I forbear at present only this take heed how you take the Devils work upon you next to accuse the brethren if not I must speak more at large unto you as to the rest of the particulars you mention as the Twelfth that Christ died intentionally for all I say he dyed for all although not intentionally to save all for if he had intended to save all he had not failed of his intention 17. That its unlawful to go Law Is this such a grievous errour with you I answer 1. That its chargeable to go to Law and 2. That the Apostle reproves it as a sin and fault in the Corinthians 1 Cor. 6. 2. Dare any of you having a matter against another to go to Law before the unjust and not before the Saints And yet you dare to upbrade the Saints who dare not go to Law and yet you belye them too in respect either of persons or opion 1. Of opinion they deny not going to Law absolutely but in case of necessity when no other way or means will serve and that too secondly when it tends to the prejudice of their livelihood and being 2. Of Persons It s not all but possibly some few tender souls dare not own going to Law in any case and I wish all were more tender in this respect although they become your reproach and scandal more then yet they are 18. That Wars are unuseful c. Answ First it s the judgement but of some and I believe of very few that Wars are altogether useless Secondly Their judgement is that Wars are useless in the Kingdom of Christ and that its useful only in the Kingdomes of the world amongst men for the preservation of civil Rights and upon this account are they active in the present War so publike as that I wonder how you could without shame and blushing mention this particular but that you shoot your arrows so at random â—s that you neither fear or shame before God or man for those you brand with the name of Anabaptists and Independents have been and are the Instruments by whom God hath given a being to your selves and Nation though men are blind and do not or wil not see it Thirdly Are you an Enemy to the Saints because they are men of peace and not of War and blood like your selves Fourthly You discover much ignorance or wilfulness in your accusations of them or else you could not so contradict your self in it In the seventh Tenent you say They are tumultuous and raised Tumults in Germany and filled it with the fire of Sedition to the loss of six hundred thousand men And in the eighteenth Wars are useless Was there ever such contradictions heard And truly I must tell you I credit not the Relation of the German Wars I see how bold you are in lying while we are yet alive to give you Answer that I cannot credit that Relation the people being gone and their Adversaries too relate it I rather think the Priests were the cause of it as they were in this Nation and am confident if they durst give a Relation of things to another Age They would say as much of the Anabaptists or rather of the baptized Christians of this Nation as they of old did of those in Germany 19. That all Ordinances are legal that the spirit is all Here you contradict your self again if another should have done so much you would have thought him not in his right wits In the first you say Their Tenent is that none must be baptized untill they come to perfect age and can make confession of their Faith Here they own baptism you confess your self And in the 26. you say Their Tenent is that after rebaptization they cannot sin in which you belie them as much as ever the Devil belyed Truth but I pass In the 19 you say They deny all Ordinances Is not this contradiction Truly you teach people not to believe you and then you are angry with the people for it 20. The Magistrate must compell none in matters of Religion but must tolerate all Ans Can Magistrates make men Religious Is it not the work of Christ to make men Christians and Religious and to compel them by the power of love Or is it the work of the Magistrate I thought where to have you at last within the Borders of Rome and indeed Sir are you come no farther yet What a Minister of Christ and want the help of the Magistrate to make Christians to compel them to come in unto you And Sir Why may not a Jesuite have as good a Church as you if the Magistrate must convert them compel them to come in and so you will have in all Do you believe that its the work of God to convert and that he will take one of a City and two of a Tribe and bring them to Jerusalem How durst you then to bring in all by a Magisterial Power into the Church unless you resolve to make them Hypocrites and to damn them to the purpose or unless you see it stand for your profit and advantage the cloathing and feeding of your back and belly by the vulgar sort of people who are thus deluded by you And as for toleration we desire not the Magistrate to tolerate any in their wickedness and if any under the pretence of conscientious principles live and allow themselves in loosness baseness and prophaness let the Sword of Justice be drawn for the execution of Justice upon all such without respect of person or opinion and in it shall we rejoyce 21. That the Father Son and holy Ghost are not three distinct persons one in Essence c. But Sir
you must do all and monopolize all to your selves when you have no more to do with the Office of a Minister nor have no more Calling to it then Korah and his Company or the Devil himself I prove it thus First Those who usurp the Office of the Ministery to themselves and have no more Call unto it either according the letter or the Spirit then Korah and his Company are guilty of Korah's sin but the Ministery of the Nation have no more Call unto it then Korah had Ergo They are guilty of Korah's sin 1. They have no Call according to the letter by a right Ordination for that they have lost in Rome long since and now have brought forth the carkass the form only and like children bless themselves with that as if they had found some great pearl Secondly There is no Call from the Spirit they then should live in the Spirits light and not in the darkness of the Devil and do the Spirits work build up the Saints encourage them in exercising their gifts for their mutual good and building up not hinder them and reproach them for so doing bear their weakness cover their infirmities reprove with meekness and love not belye them scandal them falsly accuse them like the Devil And whereas you say 'T is dangerous for men to preach without a Call and 't is dangerous for people to bear such I say its truth but gifted brethren do not preach without a Call their gift and opportunity is their Call But you it is that preach without a Call for the gift in most of you it is a stranger and you are strangers unto it and believe it the punishment will be great the earth will cleave and swallow you up in conclusion To what you have added in your third Edition I add this Answer You say Remember Hind c. Sir Are you so impudent as to reproach Saints and Truth with particular mens sins and faults Might you not upon the same account reproach Christ himself behold one of his own Disciples betray him and Peter denying him an old trick of the Devil to reproach truth withall If I should deal thus with you as justly I might I could tell you of a zealous Preacher of your tribe one Williams of Munton in Somersetshire got his servant with Child and was outed by the Committee of that County and another of Chard in the same County very zealous and like your self preached bitterly against Sectaries yet got one of his nearest friends daughter with Child and was outed likewise by the Committee another very near the same place did the like And upon this account it may easily be made manifest that there are not a filthyer Generation of Adulterers and Devils in the Nation then your own Coat You say That for it he hath been cast out of his gathered Church A discovery of their integrity they cannot bear them that do evil that say they are Jews and are not but you entertain drunkards whore-mongers prophane all sorts in you Congregation both of Priests and people and never cast them out a demonstration that you are no Church of Christ but the Synagogue of Satan a Cage of unclean and hateful birds Argument II. If none may Preach but such as are sent then every gifted brother may not preach but none may preach but such as are sent Ergo. Every gifted brother may not preach Your Argument in the Minor I grant but the Major I deny that although its true none can preach according to the intention of that Scripture Rom. 10. 15 viz. for the working of faith and converting of souls yet it doth not follow that every gifted brother may not preach for every gifted brother is sent to preach according to the measure of the gift received And your grand mistake in this Argument is in the word sent whereas that word sent relates to the internal power of the Spirit in the Saints by which they are enabled to speak a word in season to the very soul you understand it to be an outward mission or sending a poor and low interpretation The mission you say implyes three things Election by the Churches Probation and Examination by the Presbytery separation by Ordination of the Presbytery First Election by the Church But by what Church not your Parochial Provincial or National Church The New Testament never knew such a Church nor Christ in the New Testament never did never will own such a Church a company of ignorant prophane carnal creatures both Priest and people yet have gotten the name of a Church and Ministery blessing themselves in that name and yet are ignorant what it is for a Church of Christ to whom Election belongs are a company of Believers Saints gathered out of the world by the power of the Lord in the Ministry of the Gospel 1 Cor. 1. 2. Act. 2. 47. chap. 4. 32. But you are Enemies to this Church rail reproach persecute they are the object of your scorn and malice I grant that where such a Church is Election belongs to them yet I say a man may be sent to preach though not elected by the Church Act. 8. 1. 4. The whole Church being scattered preached and I suppose none dare say that all of them were Elected and Ordained for I said before there is a preaching by way of gift and office and preaching by gift only and it s the Churches joy to see her Members gifted and exercised in this way But as for your selves as your Church is no true Church nor your Ministry no true Ministry so you fail likewise in your Election by that Church for you are in your way first ordained and then you are sent to your Churches Parishes whether they will or no and you take them by violence if you have a minde to their Tythes you will be their Minister though never elected by them and afterward if you have a Call to another place for your advantage you will leave them again and imbrace the second and the third too it may be yet you dare be so bold as to tell of your electing by the Church where as first it is no Church but a Parish consisting for the most part of ignorant carnal souls and secondly you press your selves upon them whether they will or no for the most part where then is your Election by the Church of Christ thus you fail in the first part of your mission non-Election by a Church of Christ and then I pray who sent you Your second is Probation and Examination by the Presbytery the Scripture you produce is 1 Cor. 14 32. For the spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets c. A learned interpretation of this Scripture the spirits of those who are to be ordained to preach must be subject to the examination and probation of the Presbytery when there is not the least hint or intention of such a thing in the words for the Apostle saith Ye may all prophesie one
c. And know this will yet lie in your way and is not so easily removed as you imagine you pretend a distinction between gifting and sending Many thousands in the Nation are gifted you say but may not dare not preach c. Your gifted brethren it seems may not dare not preach you keep them in subjection but your sent ones though no gift at all they may and dare to do it or abuse it and what account will you give to the Lord for this at last think you You say None may preach in a constituted Church without sending in your way And yet in the constituted Church of Corinth they might all viz. who had the gift prophesy one by one you instance Barnabas and Saul Act. 13. 1. 2. who though they had gifts must be ordained Yet Saul preached Act. 9. 20 21 22. before he was ordained or had seen the Apostles see vers 27. And when Paul and Barnabas were Ordained it was not to preach in a constituted Church but to the world as you may see Act. 13. You say If bare gifts be a sufficient Call c. Then gifted boys may preach as the little gifted Boy at Stafford And why not Sir will you limit the holy One of Israel and dare you reproach the Scripture as you do out of the mouths of babes and sucklings he ordained strength and will confound his foes Then gifted women may preach you say This is your own conclusion because we say as the Scripture saith that gifted brethen may preach or prophesie therefore you in reproach will conclude that gifted women may preach but it s your conclusion and to your self I leave it and according to the Mystery of the truth I think there are but few if any besides women preachers among your selves You produce Mat. 10. 1. 5. Which you say fully clears the scruple where Christ distinguisheth gifting men from Authoritative sending v. 1. he gifts them vers 5. he sends them I answer First Is this such a sending as you have talked of in your mission Election Probation Ordination or an immediate sending as he sent Paul before he was Ordained Here is not a word of Ordination but sending no laying on of the hands of Christ but gifting sending and so the gifting and sending of the gifted brethren is when the Lord enables them in a measure unto it and saith in them to them go as in Paul Gal. 1. 16. As for those gifts you mention Mat. 10. 1. I query if you or any of your sent Brethren have those gifts or if you are so sent as those vers 5. You conclude two things that must concur in making a Minister gifts abilities qualifications both of life and learning This if rightly understood is a truth and I freely own it But you seem pag. 12. to bring in a mixture a hodge podge Arts Sciences Latine Greek Hebrew c. And is it true indeed that these gifts are required in a Minister then no Minister without them I wonder then the Apostles could be Ministers who are said to be illiterate or unlearned men Act. 4. 13. Or were they made partakers of the Spirit of Christ and are not the Saints now yea or else they are none of his Rom. 8 9. and is not the same Spirit sufficient now as then yea certainly to those who trust in him but it s the spirit of Antichrist that seeks out after humane helps to supply the room or want of this Spirit of Christ and having gotten it they grow proud of it are self-conceited in it make it their great idol and dare reproach the Spirit and power of the Lord appearing in his Saints Secondly He must have power and Authority from the Presbytery to exercise his Gifts he must not run before he be sent I have Answered this already what Presbytery sent Paul when he preached Act. 9. or the scattered brethren Act. 8. c. And where is that Presbytery among you that have power thus to send It seems you have high esteem of your Presbytery else you would not mention it so often when it s but a new trick of the Devil to give another name when the Prelate was out of date Alas you were ignorant of Presbytery your selves not long since but now the name lifts you up to Heaven although the nature of the Prelate still remains I suppose you harp so much upon this string that so they might preach nothing but what you approve and then your dark kingdom might it may be stand the longer but the Lord Jesus will consume and destroy Antichrist with the spirit of his mouth and the brightness of his coming You say All Preachers are sent either by God or by the Devil c. To this we fully assent without Tertullian your witness and I pray you look you unto it Are those who minister according to the measure of the gift given them in your account intruders usurpers sent of the Devil or of God Look to your self man you are upon a very sharp point and keen rock lest you fall or be split before you are aware Therefore I beseech you take a little view who are likeliest to be sent from God or the Devil your selves or your gifted Brethren The gifted brethren exercise the gift they have received either first when occasion and opportunity is offered to inform the judgement in the Gospel of Grace and Truth that so if the Lord work souls may be enlightned and converted or secondly to build up the Church in its most holy Faith he doth his Office as a member in the body that it may grow up in him who is the Head Your selves First make up a Church a body as you call it of Christ a monstrous body of prophane ones and give them Ordinances tell them they are Christians and so delude them and without infinite mercy damn them for ever Secondly Are ignorant of and envious to the truth the Saints and Servants of God Thirdly Do not the work of Christ preach baptize Believers converted gather Churches build up Saints but the contrary by way of opposition to all Fourthly For the most part are carnal loose base in conversation not so much as common civility or civil honesty yet all one sending Now be your selves judges who are sent from God and who from the Devil who doth the work of Christ and who the work of the Devil Oh consider this you who forget God lest he come and tear you in pieces and there be none to deliver Pag. 13. You say 'T is for Wolves and false Prophets to be self called and to come of their own accord c. Answ You say truth They are wolves who are Self-called Thieves and Robbers Joh. 10. you mention it but the Query lieth here still Who are the Self-called ones you or the preaching brethren And so who are the wolves you or them Gifted brethren they preach only by Gift as they have received as I said either for conversion
lye 1. Idleness in that you could spare so much time and leisure to read such a lye Saints work is to redeem the time 2. Ignorance in relating as well as reading not knowing that the relating of lyes and falshoods is no work for Saints but dishonourable to Truth 3. Vanity vain minds to delight in reading and relating such abominations 4. Malice in making use of a lying Story to dishonour Saints and Truth But if it be a son of your own begetting as me thinks it looks exceeding like your self remember that all lyars must have their portion in the Lake that burneth in the fire that is not to be quenched and this lye do you apply in scorn to the Baptists But give me leave to tell you that its your selves that are indeed the great swallowers you tell of an Ox but you can swallow the tenth of the whole Nation if you had it not only Corn and Hay but the Lambs Calves Pigs and Geese Eggs and leggs if not tails and all and yet not content was there ever such swallowers in the world beside think you be judge your self in time 1. Absurdity This is that will confound all Callings and Societies c. then every Souldier that hath a Commanders gift may be a Commander and a General without a Call c. then farwell all Answ You make use of Comparisons not consistent with the thing in hand those varieties of stations amongst men must have variety of distinct Callings to it but this of Preaching and Prophesying is that which all the brethren that have gifts are called to as I have often proved that in the Church all may Prophesy that have the gift and yet no confusion but peace and order and indeed it s nothing else but your ignorance and your pride in being afraid of such an equality with your Brethren as the Scripture presents you with 2. Then every gifted boy and woman should preach c. To this I have answered you already 3. Then all may preach and deliver the Supper c. To this I have likewise answered already 4. This would open a flood gate to all Errors Heresies c. I wonder what people in the world more full of Errors Heresies and Blasphemies then the Pope and your selves who have confined all preaching to your selves no way like this to nourish ignorance and nuzzle up people in blindness and abominable Worships 5. Then all vain glorious Hypocrites c. would turn Preachers c. the emptiest barrels make the loudest sound c. And is it otherwise now amongst your selves Who hold their heads highest who makes the greatest sound who thinks they have Gifts beyond all others Is is not your selves and would you not exclude all beside your selves had you so much power empty barrels making great sounds but being try'd there is nothing but vanity and pride And whereas you say All vain glorious Hypocrites would turn Preachers I would have you to know that the Saints have a Spirit of discerning and if they finde such persons they exclude them therefore this is no way to set up vain-glorious Hypocrites it is that Spirit of discerning God hath given to them that makes them discover so much Hypocrisie amongst you 6. Then the Church of Christ which is his Body would be monstrous all eye all ear all head c. contrary to that of the Apostle 1 Cor. 12 14 15 28 29. Answ No truth in your conclusion For 1. I say not that all have Gifts but all that have Gifts may Preach there are some in the Body that have not those Gifts or do not exercise them 2. I say that to those who do exercise them the Gift is different Diversities of Gifts yet the same Spirit and diversities of operations yet the same Lord c. As there are diversities of Members yet the same Body And so 3. Diversities of Callings some Apostles that is sent for the gathering of Churches some Prophets gifted brethren in the Church exercising for the edifying of the Body of Christ Pastors and Teachers for to feed and watch yet not to hinder but rather to further and incourage the Prophets Deacons to see to the necessities of the poor c. Thus you see or may see that this order is so far from making a Monster that it sets every member to do his office in his place every one to exercise his Gift in the Body according to the measure he hath received But you it is who make a monster in all its parts a filthy corrupt leprous body without or at best with rotten false painted artificial members leggs arms c. without a head Jesus Christ never was never will be Head to such a Body and your are the men the Ministers that form up and present him with such a body and then cry it up boasting of this Body dance about this ill-favoured Calf and cry out against the true Churches to be monstrous Bodies when your selves are the Monsters all the while 7. If this be tolerated it will make both Ministry and Ministers contemptible c. Answ I thought where I should take you at last Oh you love Honour as well as your Profit to have the cap and knee and to be called of men Rabbi then it goes gallant and pleaseth the heart of a proud Pharisee but you are mistaken this is not the way to make Ministers vile but the alone way for them to be esteemed of as the Ministers of Christ when they walk according to the Truth and endeavour not the dethroning of any to exalt themselves and this is that hath made you dishonourable in the eyes of Christians your pride and vileness in this particular You say The toleration of such irregularities is not so small an error as some imagine c. Alas Sir do you want the power of the Civil Magistrate to exalt you into the throne it seems it matters not what becomes of Souls let them be ignorant let them sink let them perish so your Honour may be upheld you care not c. You 'l make it a matter of consideration and concernment to the Civil Magistrate to oppose the way and Truth of Christ for your own self ends and interests The sixth Argument Every Preacher must be able in some good measure above ordinary Christians not only to divide the Word aright 2 Tim. 2. 15. Soundly to interpret and give the true sence and meaning applying the same to edification but he must be able also to convince gain-sayers Tit. 1 9. But every Gifted Trades-man Nailer Taylor c. is not able to divide the Word aright nor to convince a learned adversary and gainsayer Ergo. The Major you say is clear of it self the Minor you pretend to prove which I deny your proof is this Those who want learning both Humane and Divine cannot be sound Interpreters nor solid Disputants but most of our Gifted artificers want learning both Humane and Divine Ergo. Sir I question what you
most of the people of the Nation c. The eighth a bulwark all your wisdom is not able to undermine it 1 Cor. 14. 1. 31. Where the Apostle exhorts them to desire spiritual gifts but rather that they might prophesy and tels them vers 31. They may all Prophesy one by one hence our brethren conclude that all that have gifts may Prophesy c. In your answer to this you pretend a great deal of confidence and assurance that your gifted brethren are deluded with the word All when the truth is that your self it is who is under the delusion The Question you say will be who are meant by this word All vers 31. ye may all Prophesy c. You answer first Negatively It cannot be meant of all the Saints for then women should preach who are forbidden I answer 1. The Scripture it self is clear women are excepted ver 34. All may c. There is no limitation no prohibition of any except women and women are not altogether forbidden neither compare this with cha 11. 5. Joel 2. 28. women may Prophesy by permission and in subjection to the man c. 2. You say Private Professors are nowhere commanded to leave their Callings and go study Arts Sciences c. Oh blindness with a witness Is not the Spirit of Christ sufficient to help men to preach prophesy unless they study Arts and Sciences the Scripture saith ye may All Prophesy Private men is a title you have learnt from Rome its true it doth not say you must all leave your Callings and study Arts and Sciences this is not commanded to any nor practised by any and truly Sir I think there are none but Asses in the things of God who study Arts and Sciences to help them to preach and prophesie your Scriptures produced 1 Cor. 7. 20. ch 12. 29. I have answered already therefore I pass it in this place 2. You answer positively by All is meant all such as are Prophets the Text is clear ver 29. Let the Prophets speak c. Thus far you say truth by All is meant the Prophets that is those who have the spirit of Prophesie you proceed and say They were extraordinary your reason is because they spake by Revelation without study ver 31. I say they were not extraordinary but ordinary such as could speak to edification exhortation and comfort ver 3. and this many of the brethren could do then and can do now it s your selves that are no Prophets for you cannot speak by revelation without study but in the strength of the Lord the preaching brethren can And here it is you are lost you measure other mens condition by your own because you cannot preach without study therefore you think none else can c. I conclude with you That the word All is to be confined to the Prophets All ye that are Prophets may preach All ye that have the Spirit and so the Gift of prophesy may preach and prophesy for prophesy was no Office but a Gift as I have already shewed So then notwithstanding all your sophistications and wrenchings All that have the Gift may prophesie the preaching brethren that have the Gift may prophesy You say It s worth the observing that the word Prophet is never given to any but Ministers men in Office I have already answered that Prophet or Prophesy is never called an Office in the Scripture but a Gift and the distinguishment of Christ between a Prophet and a righteous man Mat. 10. 41. its not the Office but the Gift every righteous man hath not a Prophets gift there are various operations still the same spirit You say That all that are Prophets and can open hard Prophesies without study interpret Scripture to edification c. Who so hath these Gifts may use them But Sir where and when do you mean 1000 years ago but not now Why this is all we plead for man you have granted our desire let the Hearers be judges let the Saints be judges let the Prophets be judges God hath given that Spirit of Prophesy to interpret Scripture speak to edification and comfort of the Saints c. You say They are Prophets because the duties of Prophets are ascribed to them No need of so much of one thing being so clear and granted of all But you must needs have them extraordinary Prophets and here you harp or else you were gone But you say You will easily prove them to be extraordinary Prophets but stay Sir not so easily done as said But you say You prove it vers 30. If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by c. They preached extemporary Revelations they were by the singular Revelation of the Spirit to give the sense of Scripture Answ 1. I wonder from whence you had this distinction of ordinary and extraordinary Prophets Doth the Scripture teach you any such thing I suppose you minde by extraordinary such as foretold things to come as in the Old Testament c. But why you call them extraordinary I know not and for ordinary such as by the same spirit can speak for the edifying of the Saints the difference is onely in the operation of the same spirit in some one way in some another in some more in some less but it s given to every one to profit withal 2. That upon your own account and in your language these Prophets were ordinary extraordinary were such as could foretel things to come as Elijah Elisha Esay c. In the New Testament Agabus Act. 11. 27. chap. 21. 10. 11. such these Prophets were not For the work of the one was to foretell of the other to build up and edifie the Church You say These Prophets are set amongst extraordinary Gifts or Officers Ephes 4. 11. I wonder how you dare thus to abuse the Scripture and truth who or where are those Gifts or as you call them Officers called extraordinary but it s your own ignorance if not baseness to delude the people under these terms you call Apostles and Prophets Evangelists extraordinary and pick out from amongst the same Pastors Teachers for ordinary What Scripture teacheth you this to call one ordinary the other extraordinary If I can shew you no Prophets c. you shall shew me no Pastors nor Teachers in the World Well you say There were three things objected 1. They could not be extraordinary because their doctrine was to be tryed c. You answer first That this trying and judging did not consist in calling them to an account c. But I say It consisted in judging the truth of what was spoken to try the spirits whether they were of God for there were and are false Prophets for this was the Church of Ephesus commended Rev. 2. 2. For trying those who said they were Apostles and were not and found them lyars 2. You say An extraordinary Prophet though in penning Scripture infallible yet in other things he might err you instance in Aaron Exod. 32.
1. 27 29. God hath chosen the foolish things of the world c. Ergo Lay-men may Preach Sir Your Answer to this Objection and Scripture seems to carry the langage of the old Proverb in it more knave then fool was there ever the like heard of either from Pope or Devil what not a word of answer but scurrility and reproach what reproach the Scripture it self calling it a Sceleton a parcell of bare bones c Is this enough to give satisfaction does the light shine so clear out of that Scripture that it compels you to flie from it as not being able to look it in the face or give answer to it but cry out against it hath not this been your practice in all Ages when you meet with truth that you cannot gain-say-it then to reproach it and render it contemptible to the people but be ye sure you will have but little thank for it at the last day but seeing you leave this Scripture as being worthy of no answer but base and scurrilous names c. I shall say somthing to it that its light may appear and your darkness the more unto the world The truth there asserted is this That God in all Ages hath made choice of foolish weak and unlikely things by it to confound and bring to nothing things that are And this he doth either 1. In the work of Conversion the poor receive the Gospel Publican and Harlots go into Heaven before the self righteous zealous harisees for Christ came not to call the righteous but sinners c. 2. Or in the work of the Ministry Fisher-men Publicans Tent-makers Shepherds Plough-men c. And why so that by weak means he might bring to nothing things that are in creatures apprehension You cry up your humanity fleshly wisdom Arts Sciences c. But believe it the Lord hath began it already and he will go on with it by weak nothing creatures fools in the world eyes and in yours too to dash to peices all your wisdom and by this means he will destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nothing the understanding of the Prudent Then where is the scribe where is the disputer of this world c hath not God made foolish the wisdom of the world Take notice 1. That you fleshly wisdom in which you so much boast and glory cannot help you to the knowledge of God 1 Cor. 1. 21. chap. 2. 14. 2. It is foolishness with God 1 Cor. 3. 19. 3. It is that which must be destroyed when the wisdom of the Spirit comes 1 Cor. 1. 19. 4. It s enmity against God it is not subject to the Law of God neither indeed can be Rom. 8. 7. 5. If mercy prevent not its death Rom. 8. 6. So the Greek word signifieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the wisdom of the flesh c. and ver 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The wisdom of the flesh is enmity c. nay and fleshes best wisdom prudence so the word signifieth it s all but enmity death and that not only to your selves but others Col. 2. 8. And this God hath done is doing and will discover and bring it to nothing by weak and unlikely men and means manger all the wisdom and power of men and flesh that shall oppose be advised therefore ye wise men of the earth Kiss the Son lest he be angry and ye perish from the way c. You mention other Scriptures that are not to the purpose nor made use of that I know of by any but I suppose you juggled them in here that so you might shift off the truth in this Scripture by running to others not so much to the purpose therefore I pass them in this place and conclude The sum of all is this 1. That all the Brethren in the Church that have Gifts may Prophesie 1 Cor. 14. 31. 2. That every man according to his proportion of faith may prophesie Rom. 12. 3. 6. 3. That gifted men out of Office have Preached therefore may Preach Act. 9. 20. 8. 4. 18. 26. 4. That every man according to the Gift received may and ought to administer 1 Pet. 4. 10 11. 5. That its the Saints work to declare the glory of Christs Kingdom to the world Psal 145. 10 11 12. 6. That this is the end wherefore God gives gifts to men Ephes 4. 8. 1 Cor. 12. 7. 7. That the Saints should desire to Prophesie 1 Cor. 14. 1. ver 5. 39. 8. That the Jews themselves denyed not this in their assemblies Acts 13. 14 15. 18. 26. 9. None but Devil Pope Priests and Persecutors ever denyed this truth 1 Cor. 14. 37. If any man think himself to be a Prophet or spiritual let him acknowledge that the things I write are the Commandments of the Lord. But 1 Cor. 11. 16. If any be contentious we have no such customs nor the Churches of God chap. 14. 13. But if any man will be ignorant let him be ignorant still c. You say There was one thing more objected viz. That your Ministry was Antichristian of which one word and then you have done I shall as briefly trace you in it and so have done too This you say is objected Your ministry is Antichristan you are Babylonish Diviners Egyptians juglers limbs of the Divel proud covetous c. A whole load of such ignomious titles you may finde in a little Pamphlet of one Collier a very dangerous Sectary Sir Collier would have you to know that he hath written nothing in that little Pamphlet but what he is both ready and able in the strength of the Lord to make it good in opposition to all gainsayers notwithstanding your reproachful term of dangerous Sectary both in this and your beastial Epistle to your Reverend Senior he is a Collier and although you are black already yet he will make your blackness more to appear for he is accomplishing your desire working about coal digging up the blackness c. Well but you comfort your self yet That it is your honour and therefore you should not fret but rejoyce and give God thanks c. A very fine way to shift of truth from your selves and so go on in your wickedness saying you shall have peace although you add sin to sin and walk after the imaginations and stubbornness of your own hearts As well might the false Prophets and false Apostles rejoyce because the true ones reprove them and tell them that they transform themselves into Angels of light so because the servants of light reprove you and discover your false and erroneous ways you rejoyce as if persecuted for the truth of Christ Believe it your glorying is not good but I suppose your joy is but from the teeth outward as we use to say there is grief within and sorrow of heart c. Isay 65. 11. 12. 13 14. You say God is beholding to us for the kindness we shew to his Embassadors Answ 1. Then he is but little