it shall please God to assist my weakenes I will not spare labors to communicate with my brethern what pestilence lurketh in your enuenomed doctrine to the end that all the faithful may auoyde the same You fearing to forget any thing of your master Castalios â—currilitie do thus conclude THE ADVERSARIE And as for you Careles mâ—n you oght to take it in good worth what so euer I haue said â–ª first because it is trueth Secondly because ye holde that all things â—e doâ—e of mere necessiâ—ie then haue I written this of necessitie ANSWER To the which I answere that if the deuill were not a lier and the father not of lyes onely but also of all deceatful lyers it were not possible that you who in so manie thinges haue declared your selues horrible lyers should vainly bragge that ye haue writteÌ„ the trueth For besides those odious crimes which most impudently and most falsely you lay to our charge amongest al the scriptures by you alledged their are not three which ye do not abuse yea and in some ye do so openly belye the holy Gost that you conclude contrarie to his expressed wordes But when I coÌ„sider that your Master father Satan him self eshamed not in the presence of Christe Iesus to boast and to bragge that all the power and glorie of the earth was giuen vnto him and that he gaue it to such as best pleased him wheÌ„ yet in very dede he had no power to giue to his felow angelles and companions of darkenes licence to enter into the bellies of swine till that he aÌ„d they were faine to begge that pleasant palace of him to whom all power is giuen in heauen and in earth When this I saye I do considre I do more lament your miserable blindnes then that I can stomake against your vanitie except in so farre as to the ende I must saye that such as obstinatelye denie the plaine trewth of God are lyers and the sonnes of that lier who first deceaued man and powred into his hart the same venome and error which this day ye teach and mainteine For he was bold to affirme that wisdom and lyfe was to be found by other meanes then God had determined yea where God had pronounced death and damnation he promised saluatioÌ„ and life and so do you For God hath apointed life to none of his elect but in Christe Iesus onely aÌ„d that by such meanes as in his holy word expressed which are trew faith continuall repentance abnegation of our selues of owr owne iustice and wisdom aÌ„d finally by receauing of free grace in Christe Iesus whatsoeuer we haue lost in Adam But ye ashame not to affirme that the iustice of Christe sufficeth vs not except that we haue a personall iustice of our owne How coldely ye speake or write of his death of his resurrection of his mediation and perpetuall intercession is euident Your bragging and prowd boasting of your owne iustice and of your greate perfectioÌ„ are euident tokens how you do agree with Christe Iesus the trueth and veritie it self who commandeth vs to saye not for the fashioÌ„ but from vnfeined heartes we are vnprofitable seruantes But some of you in your iesting eshame not to saye â–ª that ye are not two thousand passes distant from the fulnes of perfection But this your vanitie your blasphemies excepted doth not greately offend vs. For a small pricke of of a pinne or of a nelde shal be sufficieÌ„t to declare that bladders be they neuer so streitly blowen conteine in them selues nothing but wind That by necessitie you haue written your railing blasphemies and most impudent lies we easily confesse For seing that ye are the sede of the serpent I meane such as in your error shall continue to the end what thing can you els do but of necessitie spew forthe veÌ„nom wheÌ„ the weight of gods eternall veritie beginneth a litle to presse downe your head for so doeth the serpent whensoeuer she is touched But why do ye not considre seing ye be reasonable serpentes that like as prowdly ye lift your selues against the glorie of the eternall Sonne of God and as ye cease not maliciousely to slander suche instrumeÌ„tes as in his Church be most profitable and most wort hie of prayse in the eyes of all godly that likewise of necessitie it is that ye come to ruine that your pride be repressed and your blasphemous tongues be coÌ„founded for euer seing that God who hatch all iniquitie must nedes resist the proude destroy the lying lippes and remoue from his societie suche as declare them selues enemies to his eternall veritie the knowledge wherof we confesse with Iob commeth onely by inspiration of the holy Gost and doth not procede from flesh or blood from studie care or wordly wisdome but is the free gift of God reueled to the lytle ones and comonly hid from the wisest of the world Which sentence wold God that depely ye could wey for then I doubt not but y â— ye should clearely se that to come to Christe Iesus is nether of the runner â–ª nether yet of the 〈◊〉 but of God who sheweth mercie to such as pleasâ—â—â— him whose counselles eternal and iudgementes mâ—st profound can no creature apprehend and compasse and therâ—fore oght all the true seruantes of God with reuerence and with trembling saye O how incomprehensible are thy iudgementes ô Lord and how vnsearchable are thy wayes for of thee by thee and for thee are all things To thee be glorie for euer and euer So be it Isaiah 54. EVERIE TONGVE THAT SHAL CONTEND WITH THEE IN IVDGEMENT THE SAME SHALT THOV MOST RIGHTLY CONDEMNE Fautes escaped in the printing In the 24. page the 19. line not for nor In the 33. page the 4. line Curthe for Church In the 95. page the 17. line displease for displeasure In the 117. page in the margent gode for gods In the 153. page the 21. line through for thoght In the 193. page the 32. line maciously for maliciously In the 165. page the 6. line yea for yet In y e 204. page the 3. line thy penne for my penne In the 263. page line 3. A scaoth for Asteroth In the same page the 16. line yet the became for yet he became In the 199. page the 24. line and affirming for and we affirming In the 312. page the 34. line 24. for 23. In the 321 page the last line defacedâ— for defaced to his vttermost In the 322. page the 18. line good reasonly for goodly reason In the 435. page the 18 line cheir for their Ephes. 1. 3 2. Cor. 2. 1â— Esaie 8. 14 2. Cor. 2. 16 1. Cor. 1. 28 Iohn 1. 5 Matt. 27. 38. Act. 2. 23 Companions of the trueth Matt 1. 7 1. Cor. 11 19 Luke 7. 13 Sathan hath euerraged against the fre mercies of God Ephes. 2. 8 How Satan drew maÌ„first from God The cause of the writing of this worke The necessitie of the doctrine of gods eternall predestination The
those I say shalle punished who not content with the will of God reueled to the which they will not be obedienâ— delite to mounte and flie aboue the skyes there to seke the secrete will of God With what faces can ye now lay to our charges that we giue occasion to men to flatter them selues in sinne or yet to think that in committing iniquitie they obey gods will Ye alledge perchance that the common people read not our writings and therefor they can not vnderstand our iudgement in this case I answer the more impudent and blasphemous are you who so defame vs in the eares of the vnlearned multitude that to them ye make both vs and our doctrine odious before that euer it be knowen or examined But yet for further discharge of our selues against your most vniust accusations and for the better instruction of the simple I will adduce an other testimonie from the writing of the same faithfull seruant of Christ Iesus Iohn Caluin and so put end to this your second calumnie In his commentarie vpoÌ„ the actes of the Apostles the 2. chap. writing vpoÌ„ these wordes of Peter affirming that by the determinat counsell and prescience oâ— God was Iesuâ— betraied and crucified by the handes of wicked men because saieth he Peter appereth to mean that wicked men obeyed God whereof of two absurdities one must nedes folow to wit that either God is the author of euill or that men committing all kynd of iniquitie do not sinne becaus they seme to obey God I aâ—sâ—er that wicked men do not obey God how so euer it be that they put in execution those things which God hath with him self appointed for obedience procedeth frome a voluntarie affection which earnestly thirsâ—eth to please God buâ— we know y t the wicked haue a far other purpose moreouer no man obeieth God but such as hath his will knowen Obedience then dependeth vpon the knowledge of gods will And so as the will of God is reueled in his law so likewise it is euident that who so euer transgresseth against his will reueled hath his conscience to witnes against him that neither he doeth the will of God neither yet that he obeyeth him To the second â—e sayeth I constantly denie that God is author of euiâ—l for in this word euill there is the notation and proprieâ—ie of a wicked affection which neuer falleth nor can fall in God The euill work oght to be iudged by the purpose and eÌ„d to the which euerie man teÌ„deth in his actioÌ„ When men committ theft or murther thereforâ— they sinne because they are theues and murtherers In the theft aÌ„d murther there is wicked counsell which neuer tendeth to please God but to saciate their inordinate appetites But God who vseth their malice is to be placed in glorie aboue them for he looketh to an other end for the one he wil punishe and the patieÌ„ce of the other he wil exercise And so he neuer declineth nor boweth froÌ„ his own nature y t is frome a most perfect righteousnes So that Christ was betrayed aÌ„d crucified by y e haÌ„ds of y e wicked it was done by y e ordinaÌ„ce of God But the treason aÌ„d the slaughter w c by them selues were most odious and wicked oght not to be iudged nor accompted the work of God Let men whose myndes the deuil hath not inflambed in hatred aÌ„d malice against God against his simple trueth and against the professors of the same now iudge whether that we affirme God to be author of sinne or if we giue any iust occasion that man should glorie in wickednes either yet that they shall burden God w t the same And I appele to thy own coÌ„science thow vnthankfull vnto men and open traitor to the veritie which once thow professed whether that thow oftener then once hast heard with thine eares and that in open audience of many That if any should take boldnes to sinne in hope of mercie that the cuppe which they should drink should be most bitter Now to that which ye affirme and we most constaÌ„tly denie You affirme that if our sayinges be true that then are the workes of God full of crueltie miserie damnation and destruction As before I haue noted somwhat which maliciously ye sclander vs so will I plainely and simply in short and seueraâ—l propositions set furth the some of that doctrine which we teach and professe and that you so blasphemously oppugne to the end that Ruelers and godlie magistrates and you your selues also may clerely se what we beleue and affirm which being considred and compared with gods scriptures if your affirmation be found true then refuse we not punishement worthie for blasphemers But if ye of malice against gods trueth spewing furth the corruptioÌ„ of your stinking stomockes infected with pryde and with contempt of gâ—ace haue affirmed that which ye be not able to proue our earnest request is as befor that your vennom may be repreâ—sed betymes These propositioÌ„s following haue I traÌ„slated furth of the work writte by that learned aÌ„d godlie man Theodorus Besa against the caluÌ„nies of your capteyn Castalio The first proposition God effectually worketh and bringeth to passe all thinges according to the counsell of his own will This counsell doeth God execute in certen momeÌ„tes of tyme neuertheles the counsell it self is eternall aÌ„d passeth before all thinges not onely in tyme as it that is before all tyme but also â—n ordre for otherwies the will of God should not be the principall and first reule of gods counsell but rather the qualities of things foresene and foreknowen and mouing God to take this counsell or that should prescribe a reule to â—he will of God This couÌ„sell maâ— not be seperaâ—ed from the will of God oneles of necesâ—itie we spoiâ—e God of his God head This counsell is not put in moderation and in direction of chance or fortune but it hath an effectuall and working strength in all thinges as Paul speaketh This streÌ„gth aÌ„d efficacie is attributed to God working but it is not saâ—d to be of God therefore by this worde efficacie or strengâ—h is not declared any nature and power giuen by God the creator to the thinges that be created that they should do this or haâ— but thereby is vnderstand the power of God which he hath in him self to do all thinges This vniuersall particle all in the wordes of Paul can by no maner of excepâ—ion be restreinend but that God in that part shall be iudged ydle as Epicurus did falsly affirme And if we shall say that any thing is done which God may notimpede the shall he be spoâ—â—ed of his infinit powere So that the coÌ„clusioÌ„ is sithecâ— that God him selfe euen as it hath pleased him to determyn all thinges to com from eternitie euen so he workth by his own power that the same thinges come to paâ—â—e in their tyme as he willeth Of these thiÌ„gs not withstaÌ„ding none of those blaspemies doth followe
shall deceaue or persuade him And the lord said wherunto he said I shall passe out be alieng Prophet in the mouthes of all his Prophetes he said therfor thou shal deceaue him thou shalt brâ—g it to passe goo forth therfor do eueÌ„ so And lo God hath giueÌ„ a lieÌ„g spirit in the mouthes of al these Prophetes the lord hath spoken euill vpoÌ„ the. If to make a publique proclamation to call for one to deceaue to send him forth to giue him power to do the same be onely a simple permission a thing which God suffereth against his will lett the indifferent man iudge I think that no maÌ„ will deny the incest of Absalome openly committed not onely to be sinne but also to be so execrable detestable a facte that nature it self be it neuer so corrupt must nedes abhorre it and yet I pray you what saith God that he wil do in that be half let the Prophet witnes Thus sayeth the Lord God saieth NathaÌ„ behold I shall rayse euill against the forthe of thine own howse and I shall take thy wyues and giue theÌ„ to thy neighbour who shal slepe with them in the sunne Thou did est y t facte secretely but I shall do this thiÌ„g opeÌ„ly before all Israel let y e vehemeÌ„cie of y e words w c here be spoken be noted be iudges your selues whether your interpretation be tollerable he saieth not I shal suffer euil to come vpon the but plainly he saieth I shal raise vp euil against the. And therwith not content he saieth I shall take thy wyues and to put the mater out of all controuersie he addeth aÌ„d I shal giue theÌ„ to thy neighbour yea and that will I do openly If to raise vp to giue to do be to permitt onely the thing which he will not we must confesse our selues ignorant of the phrases of the holie Gost. this same might I proue by Iob by Nabuchadnezer by Salmanasar by Syrus aÌ„d diuers others which for breuities saik I passe ouer one I will recite w c I trust shal be so plaine that the deuill him self by no subtilitie shal be able to obscure the light of y e trueth Was there euer any facte since the begining more wicked if the instrumeÌ„tes shal be coÌ„sidered as was the cruell and ignominiouse death of the Sonne of God And yet what doeth the holie Gost attribut to God in that case him saieth Peter beiÌ„g crucified did you kill after that you had taken him by the haÌ„des of y e wicked men being giuen by the appointed couÌ„sell fore knowledge of God And after they haue verely coÌ„uened agaiÌ„st thy holie SoÌ„ne Iesus whoÌ„ thou hast anointed Herode together PoÌ„tius Pilate w t y e Gentiles together y e people of Israell to do what so euer thy hand thy cousell haue decreed to be doÌ„ne Aduise well what ye wil answer y e wordes are plaine so plaine y t you caÌ„ not auoide the. for he that sayeth the wicked meÌ„ did what so euer God did foresee before dotermined yea what his hand â–ª y t is his power and couÌ„sell y t he had before decreed to be donne meaneth a thing of more greater importaÌ„ce theÌ„ he y t saieth they did what God permitted and suffered to be donne Consider forther y t you haue not to do w t men as w t Augustine Caluine and vs whome you call careles libertines but w t the holie Gost speaking in Peter in the hole Church of Ierusalem yea speaking in the hole scripptures for if not to spare his Sonne but to giue him to y e deathe for vs to cause our sinnes to make warre agaiÌ„st him to punishe hiÌ„ for y e same in suche sorte y t of al men he was most contemptible for a season if I say to giue to death to strike to wound punish be actions then did not God onely suffer his Sonne to die to be wouÌ„ded to be smytten to be punished without any will that any such thing should come to passe but he in his eternall counsell appointed the time the place the persons wheÌ„ where and by whome he should suffer y e same for of loue he gaue him to suffer the trewe death that we by him might receaue life the time could not be changed the cuppe which the father had giuen him he must nedes drinck as in the figures was foreshad owed and by his own people and geÌ„tiles as the Prophetes and Dauid had before spokeÌ„ If in gods counsell gods gift gods hand and eternall purpose before decreinge all things to come to passe in the deathe of his Sonne ye can se nothing but a bare simple permission I can not cease to affirme that as by falsifying such plaine scriptures you labor to take from the Churche of God their most singuler coÌ„fort left to vs in Christes death so do you walk in darknes in y â— same ye shall perishe except spedely you repeÌ„t Howe one the same work in so far as it procedeth from God is most iust most profitable most mercifull and yet as it procedeth from y e instruments most profane most wicked damnable to theÌ„ selues most cruell I haue abouÌ„dantly declared and after as occasion shal be offered shall touch by gods grace so much as may instructe the sobre mynd if it be ignorant and also to put sileÌ„ce to your venemous mouthes be they neuer so impudeÌ„t Because the scriptures which you heape together be either plainely repugning to your error orels make nothing for probation of the same I will so shortly as I caÌ„ go through them onely noting wherin you abuse the wordes and mynd of the holie Gost. The wordes of our master spokeÌ„ in the 24 chapter of Mathewes Gospell serue nothing for your purpose for in that place our Sauiour Christ Iesus speaketh as he that is the messinger of his heaueÌ„lie father aÌ„d declareth that the Iewes obstinatly euen from their original had resisted God speakiÌ„g by his patriarks prophets of old now last by his Sonne he neither speaketh nor meaneth what wil God had to saue his elect neither yet y t will w c he had to gather seperate theÌ„ froÌ„ v â— world but onely as Moises and Elias had before spoke declareth what fidelitie diligence God had vsed in the generall election vocation of that people from time to time and yet what had bene their obstinate rebellion vnthankfull defection from him by the which they killed the Prophetes aÌ„d should kill his Sonne sent of God to call them from iniquitie What hath this to do I say with that will by the which God in his eternall counsel hath made diuisioÌ„ betwext the electe the reprobate If ye dare say that Christe in that place meaneth in that he wold haue gathered those murtherers and sonnes of murtherers as he doth witnes he doth gather his chosen flock him self
any of you think that these thiâ—gs are but imagined by me let him vnder his oâ—ne name impugne them and I shall shewe witnesses which at this time for diuers causes I omitte Your iesting at vs your bold iudgement and condemnation by you pronounced against vs we remitt to him who shortly shall declare which of the two sortes be drowned in infidelitie and leauing gods plaine scriptures haue folowed the vanities of their owne imaginations Now shortlie to that w c foloweth in these wordes THE ADVERSARIES An other proofbring you of that which is written 2. Reg. 24. God moued Dauid to nombre Israell Iuda To which I answer that which is write 1. Parali xi Sathan stood vp against Israel prouoked Dauid to nombre the people I am certen that if it were not for this manifest scripture you wold attribute the wicked prouocatioÌ„ of the deuil to God but here we may see agreat light to vnderstaÌ„d many other places of the scriptures which semeâ—h to affirm God to be the author of any euill for by these two places we may see that God is called to be the author of the thing which he suffered as because he suffered the obstinat resisting of Pharao he is called the author thereof So because he left Semei to the lewdnes of his owne mynd suffered him to curse Dauid God is called the author of his cursing so the partriarkes being left of God did sell their brother aÌ„d here now Dauid being left of God to noÌ„bre the people by the prouocation of the deuil whereuÌ„to he was no more moued by God theÌ„ wheÌ„ he killed Vrias to this you say that we do but flatter God wheÌ„ we do assigne any difference betwene his wâ—l his permissioÌ„ or his sufferaÌ„ce for God permitteth nothing say you but that which he will if ye meÌ„t so that God permitteth nothing but that which he will permits I would them holde your saying true But for as much as you declare you meaning to be this that what so euer God permitteth he willethe it absoutly this is an erronâ—ouse saying â–ª for God permitteth suffereth all the wickednes which is donne vpon the earths and will you say that God willeth absolutly all such wickednes God for bid the people of God should be so persuaded to beleue such abomination I say you are the Propâ—etes of the deuill which teache such filthie doctrine and ye say ye be the prophetes of God nowe of necesitie one of vs lieth for if you be the Prâ—phets of God then I lie and if you be the Prophetes of the deuill they do ye lie and if God will vs to say the trueth he will not that we lie for then he should will two contraries which is impossible yet one of vs doeth lie which must be by the permissioÌ„ and suffring of God not by his will wherof it foloweth that there is difference betwext the suffering and the will of God The Lord was angry with the careles heathen because when God was a little angry with the Israelites they did their best to destroye them Then suffered God the heathan thus to punish his people more greuously theÌ„ he willed them to do wherfor there must be difference betwene the will of God and his suffering Obed the Prophetâ—reproued the Israelites because 〈◊〉 afflicted Iuda more greuously then God wold they should haue donne â–ª 〈◊〉 must the Israeliâ—es haue donne this by the permission of God nâ— â—his will The prodigall sonne wasted all his goods riatously if you say that so was his fathers will iâ— should be a great absurditie wherfor it must nedes folowe that the father suffered that which he willed not The faâ—her willed both his soÌ„nes to go aÌ„d labor in his vineyarde yeâ— not boâ—h but one of them did his fathers will so the father sufferred the other which weÌ„t not against his will Thus we may see a great difference betwene the will and the permission of God a notable saying we haue in the prophecie of Ieremiâ— against this error which teacheâ—h â—haâ— sinne is coÌ„mitted not onely by the permission of God but also against his will they haue saieth he builded â–ª high places for Baal to vowe their sonnes daughters vnto Moloâ—h which I neuer commaÌ„ded â—hem neither came it euer in my â—hoght to make Iuda sinne with such abomination Here we se that Iuda committed that which was contrarie to gods reueled will for I neuer commanded theÌ„ saieth he and against his secrete wâ—ll for iâ— came neuer in my thoght saiteh hâ— TheÌ„ did they sinne by the permissioÌ„ of God against his wil. Thy wayes thy thoghtes broght the to â—his saieth the Lord. If it was the lordâ—s secrete wil that the Israelites should sinne and it was also the Israelites thoghtes will to sinne theÌ„ were they bothe of one mynd And as he 〈◊〉 out wardly by the word willeth theÌ„ not to do euil so they out wardlâ—e did promise to kepe gods law wourshipped him with their lippes By 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 semed that both in wardlie aÌ„d out wardly they were coÌ„forme to God afâ—er your opinoÌ„ wherfor he oght not to hauâ— bene offeÌ„ded with theÌ„ I am ashamed to write the abominable absurditeis which may be gathered of your poisoned doctrâ—ne The lord shall raise vp the spirit of the king of the Medes which hath alredie a desire to destroy BabiloÌ„ by what meanes 〈◊〉 the lord stirre him vp to do any thing which alredie is bent to do it â–ª but by suâ—fering him And yet is the Lord called the doer therof And â—here for it is written Let one deceaâ—full offender com against anoâ—her and one destrâ—yer 〈◊〉 me against an other â–ª for what neded God to moue the wickd â—o do 〈◊〉 kindly which being giuen ouer of God do imagine nothing buâ— wâ—ckâ—dnesand his master the deuill stepeth neuer but is alwayes with him teâ—pting him with euill thoghtes and promoking him to perfourm his wâ—ckâ—d imaginations ANSWER The more nie ye draw to the end the lesse ye proue your purpose but the more ye vtter your malice aÌ„d venim No iust caus se we why that y e place of the bookes of the kings shall be explained by that which is written in the chronicles in such sorte as you require to wit that nothing be left to God in that greuous offence of Dauid except an ydle and onely permission for the holie Gost feareth not to say The wrath of the Lord God was yet moued against Israell and stirred vp Dauid against them that he said go and nombre Israell and Iuda Here plain it is that the eternall God who was angrie against Israell dad stirre or moue Dauid to nombre them not by an ydle permission as you alledge but by such motioÌ„ as nothing repugneth to his iustice Where ye say the other place explaineth this for it affirmeth that the deuil stood vp against Israel and prouoked Dauid to
nomber Israell I answer as the one place repugneth nothing to the other so doeth it not explaine the other in such seÌ„se as ye adduce for it repugneth not to say that God man aÌ„d the deuil work in one fact actioÌ„ as in the histories of Iob Achab Semei and Pharao is manifest God for iust causes giueth his commandement and power to sathan as to his instrumeÌ„t be he neuer so wicked to do what in his eternal cousel was before decreed Sathan of a wicked and rebellious mynd chooseth such instrumentes and vseth such meanes as God likwies hath appointed Men in al wicked actions of their fre and voluntarie motion do folow their corrupt and wicked affections in declaring their pride vanitie malice or crueltie which wicked affections in so farre as they are wicked we confesse that God will not for he can will no iniquitie but yet that his eternal almightie power shall be iudged so ydle that it doeth nothing in such actions but onely suffer we can not admitte for such reasons as we haue before alledged wher that we did examine the differeÌ„ce betwext gods wil and his permission You retein your old nature and iustly I might say the nature of the deuill most maliciously affirming vs to say that what so euer God permitteth he willeth it absoluteâ—â— and so that absolutely he willeth all wickdâ—â—ces Which saying as ye be neuer able to proue vpon vs so do we coÌ„fesse it not onely erroneous but also so blasphemous that who so euer dare pronounce or affirme the same deserueth death for we most constantly in word and writing affirme absolutley God willeth no iniquitie for all his workes in so far as they procede frome his wisedom aÌ„d infinite goodnes are holie and iust and therfor do we make God author of no sinne which onely procedeth frome the fountaines that be corrupted that is from the deuil and frome man as in diuers places most euidently we haue declared Because I do perceaue that greatly ye delyte in your prignaÌ„t wittes I will not say foolish vanitie I will recicite your hole wordes by the which ye wold seme to proue contrarietie in God except that we wold grante a difference betwext gods will and his permission I say saieth the author of your book to vs that ye are the Prophetes if the deuill which teach such filâ—hie doctrine and ye say be the Prophetes of God Now of necessitie one of vs lieth for if ye be the Propheâ—es of God I lie And if ye be the Prophetes of the deuil ye lie And if God will vs to say the trueth he will not that we lie for then he should will two contraries which is impossible yet one of vs lie which must be by permission and suffering of God and not by his will whereof it foloweâ—h that there is difference betwext the suffering and the will of God It appereth that in this description of persons in which ye oppose your selues to vs ye wold more declare what is your iudgement and opinion of vs and what ye wold that we should be estemed of others then that ye greatly do trauale to proue any contrarietie in gods wil by the same for his eternall wisedom seeth the meanes how that his commandement and his will are not contrarious the one to the other albeit that he command one thing and yet for iust causes will wicked men to do the contrary which kinde of coÌ„trarietie and repugnance doeth so blind your eyes that you can not se how God caÌ„ coÌ„mand all men to speak trueth and yet for iust causes before sene and determined in his counsell that he wil y e deuil aÌ„d his slaues to delite in lies Albeit I say that the apperance of this contrarietie blinde you yet will not gods trueth cease of be trueth neither will the libertie of his eternall Godhead be broght into bondage to your corrupt iudgement His commandement and his will do nether debate nether fight betwext them selues but do agree in all thinges euen as do his mercie his iustice his wisedom and his power albeit oftener it is that his iustice doth punish such as vpon whom he hath determined to haue mercie Euen so he commandeth men to obeye his commandementes whom he not onely foresaw to be disobedieÌ„t but for most iust causes willeth his glory to appere euen in their vnrighteousnes lies And this he doth without all contrarietie in his godly will to the full knowledge wherof albeit ye can not atteine yet more profitable it were for you to be ignorant of such thinges as God reserueth to be reueled in the time appointed in his eternall counsell then thus without all reuerence and feare to trouble your foolish braines in deuising such absurdities as may seme to oppugne gods eternall veritie which in the ende wâ—l triumphe to your destruction â–ª shame and confusion if obstinatly you procede as you haue begonne For albeit that he loueth trueth and hateth lies and albeit that he commandeth man to speak the trueth and forbiddeth man to beare fals witnes yet feareth he not to giue a commandement to that wicked spirite to go forth to be a lieng spiritte in the mouthes of all Achabes fals prophetes Yea forther he gaue him power to worke that in the fals prophetes which he forbiddeth all men to do For he commandeth that no man shall deceaue an other and yet giueth he power to the deuill to be a lieng spiritte in the mouthes of the fals prophetes and to them he giueth power to deceaue Achab. If ye list to lay contraritie to the charge of God prepare your winges and with Nabuchadnezer of Babylon saye we will passe vp to the heauens and shall establish our seates aboue the sterres of God we shall passe vp vpoÌ„ the hight of the clowdes and we shall be like to the most highest yea if thus ye will call his secrete counsels to examination and triall ye must be iudges and superiors to him Thus iustly I might illude aÌ„d skoffe y o r reasoÌ„s as vanities most vnworthie to be answered But yet hauiÌ„g respecte to the simple I wil gather your argument and forme it as strongly as your selues can and I will answere so much of the same as ye think nable to be answered your argument is this God can not will two contraries but to speake the 〈◊〉 aÌ„d to lie are contraries Therfor he can not will them both But he permitteth men to lie and willeth them to speake the trueth There is therfor a difference betwene the will and the permission God can not will two coÌ„traries True it is in him selfe in one respecte and for one purpose he who is author of coÌ„cord can not will contrarietie but in consideration of his creatures for diuers respectes and sundrie purposes thiÌ„ges be not coÌ„traries the one to y e other which to our iudgementes haue apperance of contrarietie If you be so wel sene in your artes as some of