and more and place those words aâ—ter the note aftâ—r the words Sect. 3. p. 128. 29 furnished p. 140. marg Ecclesie promâ—tteâ— p. 143. and often elsewhere is printed Valentinianus for Valentianus p. 147. 25. ha h God vttterly forsaken p. 153. 35 read 370 yeeres after Christ p. 155. 21. Eckius p. 161. 21. other vices p. 196. 8. yet we doe not thinke p. 210. 2. oft the formost deuouring p 211. 32. Athanasius p. 220. 34 whereon p. 2â—6 11. suppositions p. 234. 12. a whole booke p. 243. 25. members all of p. 2 17. 11. being voided ib lin 16. not the Churches opinion p 209. marg ad li. 18 read 2 Cor. 5. â— 6. 3. Eph. 4. 12. col 4. 17. â— tim 1. 12. 2 tim 4. 5. p. 103. 35. pontificatus nostri decimo p. 308 25. in the more p 311. marg â— Armachanus lib. 11. in q. Armeniorum c. p. 7. Numbers of pages are sometimes misprinted and Sections which may be amended by this generall I able In the second Alaphabet pag. 65. adde to the marginall notes Avenein Aâ—nal â—â—ior lib. 5 See Tortura Torti pag. 264. p 71. lin penul wasted it with fire Other smaller sâ—â—pt in letters or points I note not they will trouble the Reader lesse in â—â—ading then amending The most are amended The Preface or Jntroduction containing 1 a briefe description of the parties conferring in this Dialogue 2 The purpose and profit of the conference touched 3 The manner of it intended in all humility and meekenesse of spirit 4 the matter solidity of Arguments and allegations out of the best Authors of both sides Roman-Catholicke 1 ALthough in mine owne iudgement I am sufficiently resolued of the verity and sanctity of the Roman-Catholicke-Religion and am loath to be either vnsettled or disquieted againe by any further conference yet to giue satisfaction to my tryed honest and good friends Such should be the qualities of a good Minister as may win the loue of the Aduersarieâ— who vrge me once againe to conferre with a graue learned Minister hereby I am content to goe to the man And the rather because besides his learning I know him to be very honest iust louing and of a meeke spirit And here he comes Saue ye Sir Protestant Minister Master Candidus I haue much longed to meet you The Lord now giue a blessing to our meeting I haue heard with no small griefe of heart by some of your good friends that you are fallen into mislike of our Church of England and into liking of the present Religion of Rome Now in tender care of your saluation I desire to confer with you thereabout to try if by Gods gracious blessing I may be a meanes to resolue and settle you in the truth Rom. Sir I would haue you to thinke that I haue a great care of my saluation and in simplicity of my heart and tendernesse of conscience and not for any other by respect I haue sought the true way to saluation and doubt not but I haue found it And therein I am so well settled that you may spare your labour Prot. I doubt not but in the simplicity of your heart and desire of the truth you haue laboured in this waighty matter For I haue obserued you alwayes to be of an honest disposition sober temperate aduised of discreet conuersation for which faire carriage of life you haue gained the surname of Candidus Good natures mis-led are much to bee pittied And I haue also found you zealous of Gods honour So farre as your knowledge did lead you The more it grieueth me that so honest a nature should be abused mis-led by bad Teachers But I pray you consider that Saint Paul himselfe was blamelesse in life deuout and zealous in his Religion when it was erronious as you are now and thought his courses maruellous godly and much tending to Gods glory He was instructed by Gamaliel Act. 2.3 Phil. 3.6 a learned Doctor according to the perfect manner of the Law of the Fathers as was then thought was zealous towards God and touching the righteousnesse of the Law blamelesse and of very zeale persecuted the true Church of God and thought he was bound in conscience to doe many things contrary to the name of Iesus A s 26.9 So that men may thinke they are in the holy way of truth and may be deuout and zealous therein and yet be farre wrong As we hold those of the Romish Religion to be at this day who persecute the Reformed Churches of Christ which professe to hold the doctrine of the holy Scripture entire without admitting any other grounds of Religion Remember what our blessed Sauiour foretold Iohn 16.2 John 16.2 Venit hora vt omnis qui interficit vos arbitretur obsequium se praestare Deo The time commeth that whosoeuer killeth you will thinke he doth God seruice This was fulfilled in part quickly As in Acts 13.50 The Iewes stirred vp deuout and honourable-women Acts 13.50 and the chiefe men of the City and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas and expelled them out of their coasts So that people that are deuout and zealous in their Religion yet may be in the wrong and had need well to examine their groundes Rom These examples may as well be applied to the Protestants as to the Catholiks Prot. You apply them to the Protestants wee to your new Catholiks Let the vnpartiall world Iudge who are the persecutors and who are the persecuted But hereby you may see mortall men must not be too hastily resolued but first thorowly examine the truth of their groundes wherevpon they build their Faith Lest they run amisse as Saul did though taught by Gamaliel and as the deuout honorable-women and chiefe men of the City did being stirred vp by the Iewes Rom. But when a man is well resolued vpon good grounds why should hee disquiet himselfe and call his Faith into question againe Prot. The question is whether his grounds be good or no. Saint Paul before his conuersion and these honourable-women thought as well of their grounds as you doe of yours and yet were deceiued in them But beside this there is another reason why you should thorowly know the strength of your grounds to wit for the winning satisfying confirming of others To which end S. Peter saith 1 Pet. 3.15 Be alwayes ready to giue satisfaction to euery one that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meeknes and feare So then both for your own fuller resolutioÌ„ in the truth and for the satisfaction of me or any other I pray you let vs seriously conferre of these waighty matters Rom. With all my heart So it be done in that manner which Saint Peter there prescribeth with meeknesse feare and a good conscience For rough rude biting and railing speaches argue rather a blinded heart or a proud scornfull and vnmortified man then one endued with Gods grace loue
and patience such as is fit to winne others with all long suffring and doctrine 2 Tim. 2.24.25 and 4.2 1 Tim. 5.1.2 and 3.3 Prot. Sir wee pray with vnderstanding in our English Letany from all blindnesse of heart from pride vainglory and hipocrisie from enuy hatred and malice and all vncharitablenes good Lord deliuer vs. Rom. It is a good prayer I would it were well liked and practised of you all Prot. You shall finde me not onely patient but exceeding pitifull and full of commiseration to you and to all other well-minded men that are seduced that be Errones onely and not Turbones as Lipsius distinguisheth them not wilfull but ready to yeeld to sound reason Iustus Lipsius Politic. and to the truth when it manifestly appeares such as be vere Candidi as I hope you bee But against those wicked seducers that wilfully persist to blindfould themselues and you by Pious fraudes as they call them and keepe you on their side for by-respects contrary to the truth laied open to their eies you must giue me leaue to vse iust indignation As we see the Prophets our Sauiour and his Apostles did Rom. Whomsoeuer you shall proue to be such I will ioyne with you in your lust indignation and abhorre them I account no fraud pious nor lawfull to doe euill that good may come of But by forgery and deceit to mis-lead simple soules from the truth in Religion I account most detestable Prot. If it please you then to alleadge your best and most solid reasons whereby you are moued to forsake our Church and embrace the now Roman Religion I will be willing to answer you Rom. I will doe it not of mine owne head but out of the best and learnedest Authors of our side Prot. And I will endeuour to answere out of the learnedest and most iudicious Authors of the Protestants and most especially out of our latest pithiest and substantiallest English writers referring you to the bookes themselues with notes of their Chapters Sections and Pages for your more thorow satisfaction and setling of your Iudgement with like allegations also of your owne best Authors when they doe as they doe often yeeld vs the truth A IVSTIFICATION OF THE CHVRCH OF ENGLAND Demonstrating it to be a true Church of GOD affording all sufficient meanes to SALVATION CHAP. 1. The alleadged 1 antiquity of the Romish Church and newnesse of the Protestants Church 2 is shewed to be vaine for that the Protestants retain the ancient sauing faith and 3 onely weede out the super-seminated Tares 4 as Hezekias and other good Princes did in their times So that 5 these two Churches differ onely as fields well weeded and ouergrowne with weeds And 6 Protestants are not separated from the good things found in the Roman Church but from the Papacy which is a domineering faction in the Church 7 For the Doctrines whereof the ancient Martyrs suffered not but for the Doctrines which Protestants hold §. 1. Roman Catholicke IT is a sufficient notice to mislike and forsake the Protestants Church because it is new neuer seene nor heard of in the world in any Age or Countrey before Luthers time for wee know the true Church of Christ is ancient Bellar. de notis Ecclâ—s l. b. 4. c. 5. Gâ—eg de Valentâ—a Analysis fidei l. 6. c. 12. Costerus Enchirid cap. 2. §. convertat Campian ratâ—o 4 5 6 7. Doct Hil. reas 1. And all Roman Writers triumph in this Argument See B. White ag Fisher p. 115. Cal. inst l. 4. c. 2. §. 2. continued from our Sauiours owne time and such is the Church of Rome founded vpon the chiefe Apostles S. Peter and S. Paul manifestly traced throughout all Ages with an honourable and certaine succession of Bishops the successors of S. Peter All Tyrants Traitors Pagans Hereticks in vaine wrastling raging barking against it confirmed by all worthy Counsels the generall graue Senates of Gods highest Officers and Ministers vpon earth enriched with the Sermons and writings of all the sage learned and holy Doctors and Fathers made famous by all those millions of Saints with their holinesse Martyrs with their suffrings Confessors with their constancy the building of Churches Monasteries Colledges Vniuersities and by all excellent meanes made conspicuous and honourable to the whole world Is it likely is it possible that this Church so ancâ—ent so honourable so holy and glorious should all this while be false hereticall and now to bee forsaken and reiected and a new particular Church lately moulded and erected by Luther Melancton Caluin Beza and a few other obscure vpstarts should bee the only true Church to be imbraced or that the most gracious God would hide his sauing truth from the world fifteene hundred yeeres to the distruction and damnation of so many millions of soules and now at last reueale it to a few in a corner No Sir giue mee leaue herein to take the name of Antiquus to liue and dye in the old Religion and to refuse your new §. 2. Protestant This is indeed the generall enchantment whereby those that compasse Sea and Land to make Romish Proselytes doe bewitch the vnwary and were it true it were able to draw all the world to become Roman-Catholicks But I pray you marke my counter-charme shewing the vntruth and weaknesse of your assertion We of the Church of England doe professe and protest that we are of that a All our learned Bishops Docâ—ors and Preachers beat vpon this point B. Iewel Arch. Abbot B. Abbot B. Bilson B. Andrewes B. Carlton B. Barlow B. Morton B. Vsher B. Downan B. White B. Hall D. â—ulk D. Whitacres D. Field D. White B. Bot. D. utclis D. Favour Mr. Perkins and inâ—umerable others true ancient Church of Christ which you describe b â—ee Fâ—eld Church lib. 3. cap. 6. c. that we hold entirely and soundly all that sauing Doctrine which the blessed Sonne of God brought into the world and his Apostles taught wrote in the holy Scriptures and which the ancient holy Fathers of the Primitiue Church held with great vnity and vniuersality for many ages §. 3. c This is shewâ—d chap. 5. sect â— Booke 2. chap. 2. §. 6. chap. 4. sect 2. And we reiect nothing but the corruptions errours and abuses that haue crept into the Church in later times and from small beginnings haue growne at last to be great and vntollerable those onely we haue refused and haue reformed our particular Churches in diuers Kingdomes and Nations as neare as we could to the fashion of the first true pure and vncorrupt Churches retaining all the Doctrines of the Church of Rome which we found to be Catholicke or agreeable to the faith of the whole Church in all times and places d See D. White against Fisher pag. 68. But Doctrines not Catholicke being neither Primitiue belonging to the ancient Church nor generally receiued by the whole Church either at this day nor in any other age
8. pag. 815. And with other Lawes Constitutions Councels and Ordinances he playeth fast and loose as he list Take for example that which is written in the end of the history of the Councell of Trent When much debating had beene betweene the Pope and the Cardinals whether his Holinesse should confirme the Councell or no because through the importunity of Princes and some learned Diuines many Decrees had passed for reformat on of diuers things whereby the dignity and profits of the Papacy and Court of Rome would bee much impaired at last Cardinall Amulius told the pope Since he could not possibly auoyd the calling and celebrating of the Councell so much desired by the clamour of the world he must now either quickly confirme it to satisfie the world or else Princes and States would vse other meanes by nationall Councells or by another generall Councell to satisfie themselues But now by confirming all and giuing as much quicke execution as was possible the pope might stay and quiet the humour of the world for the present and afterwards by vnsensible and vnresistable degrees by his dispensations he might bring all to the same estate wherein it was before without seeming to violate the decrees of the Councell and this policy tooke effect and so both frustrate the good reformation entended by the Decrees and also gulled the world and all the Princes and Prelates paines and turned all to the profit of the Pope his Court and Cardinalls Whereby it plainly appeares The popes faction aymeth not at the good of the Church or Christian Common-wealthes but onely at their owne wealth and greatnesse and hereby appeares also the great power and iniquity of the Popes dispensations Antiquus Whatsoeuer they aime at I am resolued that many of these things cannot be of God they are certainly the faults of men and abuses practised vnder colour of Religion I cannot I will not defend them But I doe much wonder how not being of God they should be so generally receiued beleeued to be of God and so long continued and not rather long since driuen out of the world by Princes and People Antiquissimus Sir if ye knew and considered the policies and power which haue been vsed to bring them in and maintaine them your wonder would cease Antiquus I pray you make me acquainted with them Antiquissimus Some of the principall and most obuious I will but my wit cannot sound the bottomlesse depth of the Mystery of Iniquity Antiquus A taste thereof shall content me CHAP. 6. Of policies to maintaine the Popes Princedome and Wealth 1 Depriuing men of the light of the Scriptures And 2 of their ordinary preachings and setting vp ambulatery Monkes and Pryars to preach without controule of Church Ministers and Officers 3 Schoolemens too much subtilty and Philosophy darkning and corrupting Diuinity 4 Iesuites their originall noted their Seminaries their Emissions faculties insinuations and imploiments 5 Cardinals 6 Prouision for men and women of all sorts by Monasteries c. 7 Auricular confession 8 Other policies to gather wealth 9 Purgatory a rich thing 10 So are Indulgences or Pardons 11 Jubilies 12 Corruptions of doctrine touching merits and Justification c. 13 Things hallowed by the Pope 14 Extraordinary exactions §. 1. THe Popes principall meanes to make the people his owne were 1 to keepe the Diuine Scriptures from them by which else they might discerne his vniustifiable policies Psal 119.105 and 19.7 8. For Gods Word is the light and lanthorne of Christians which S. Paul would haue to dwell plentifully among them Col. 3.16 and S. Peter would haue Babes in Christ to desire the sincere milke of the Word that they may grow thereby 1 Pet. 2.2 which is able to make them wise in the points of faith 2 Tim. 3.15 and perfectly furnished vnto all good workes verse 17. Chrysost serm 2. de Lazaro S. Chrysostome as doe many other Fathers also exhorts all people Lay-men especially Tradesmen Carpenters c. to get them Bibles more carefully then any other tooles of their occupation and the more they dealt in the world and met with temptations il examples and occasions of sinne so much more carefully to reade the Scriptures for direction and armour against them Christ himselfe commandeth Search the Scriptures Joh. 5.39 and saith Matth. 22.29 Doe ye not erre not knowing the Scriptures So that herein They are Anti-Pauls and Peters Anti-chrysostomes and Anti-Christs that teach and practise the contrary Matth. 5 15. hiding the light of Gods Word vnder their Latin bushels from the vnlatined people in Gods house yea and from the Latined too vnder great penalties except they be licenced Surely as this is a meanes to obscure the truth and lead men as Captiues blind-fold whether they list * 2 Tim. 2.26 so it is a signe they loue not the truth but are euill men and hate the light lest their deeds should be reproued Ioh. 3.20 §. 2. But it was not sufficient to take from men the true light except there be added also a false light to misguide them for mens mindes being naturally desirous of knowledge and giuen to deuotion must haue that hunger satisfied and quieted either by truth or appearance Their second policy was therefore 2 To put downe the ordinary Pastors and Preachers or to take a course that they are discouraged disabled grow vnlearned and vnfit to preach and set vp others For Saint Paul appointed Bishops to ordaine Presbyters * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tit. 1.5 in euery City and Towne to wit such as dwell among the people might best know the wants sinnes capacities of their owne people See Tit. 5 6 7 c. 1 Tim 3.2 c. and 5.22 Acts 20.17 18. and apply their teaching the best way to informe reforme and winne them and such as being fixed in their places might best be called to account by the Bishop either for life or doctrine This was Gods excellent meanes to preserue sound doctrine and sincere holy liues of Ministers But when the Popes ambition and couetousnesse grew so great that they were not content with Christs heauenly Kingdome but would super-adde vnto it an earthly kingdome and make of Christs militant Church and Church triumphant vpon earth a visible Church Monarchy as Doctor Sanders entitles it ouer-topping all other Kingdomes of ciuill Princes Kings and Emperours and draw out of all Countries the Wealth and Treasure of the world to maintaine it Then the Ministers and Preachers of Christs ordaining would not serue their turne but would rather oppose And therefore it was the popes best policy to disgrace and disable them and to finde out and set vp others fitter for their purpose to preach in all places of the world by the authority and priuiledge of the Popes onely and wholly exempted from the Bishops iurisdictions and from all controule of other Ministers or Officers whatsoeuer So that these new Preachers meerely depending vpon the pope and maintained by
question is not of the truth of the presence but of the manner whether it be to the teeth or belly which he in a manner denies or to the soule and faith of the Receiuer So also d Bellarm. De Purgat lib. 1. cap 6. Bellarmine for the proofe of Purgatory alleadgeth a number of Fathers as Ambrose Hilary Origen Basil Lactansius Jerom but farre from the purpose of the question and quite beside their meaning for they spake of the fire at the end of the world as e Sixtus Senens Bibl. lib. 5. Annot 171. Sixtus Senensis saith and Bellarmine cites them for the fire of Purgatory before the end f Bellarâ—ib Hee cites many other Fathers also to proue Purgatory because they commended prayer for the dead though he well knew that proceeded from an g Sâ—arez in 3. pa t â—â—ome qu. 59. art 6. disp 57. §. 1. pag. 1159. errour which they held that mens soules were not iudged till the last day nor rewarded or punished but reserued in some secret receptacles vnto the vniuersall Iudgement Which opinion is as contrary to Purgatory to confirme which he alleadgeth them as it is to the truth and therefore they are guilefully alleadged beside their meaning Antiquus These practises of alleadging counterfeit bookâ—s vnder the reuerend names of ancient holy Fathers of corrupting the genuine writings of the Fathers and of auoyding or peruerting their true meaning by any sophisticall interpretations and of producing them in shew to the purpose but indeed beside the purpose and the true question and by all or any of these meanes to seeke the victory by obscuring the truth are things to my heart and soule odious and abhominable Neither should I beleeue that euer any such thing was done by Men that professe Religion but I should thinke it rather a malicious slander deuised by their aduersaries if I had not seene manifest proofe of all by their owne bookes layed open before mine eyes But to let passe my iust griefe of this for the present I must adde that CHAP. 3. Of the differences of the Fathers and Protestants and of their contentions § 1. Many Fathers are confessed by all sides to haue held some erronious opinions which none are boun◠〈◊〉 receiue and yet in the substance of Religion were good Catholicke Christians and our predecessors 2 Many differences also are noted among Romish Doctors which yet hinder them not from being all accounted Catholickes 3 The differences among Protestants are nothing so great or many as those afore noted of the Fathers and the Romish The especiall one about Christs presence in the Sacrament is much lesse then it seemeth 4 The Popes vnwillingnesse to reforme manifest abuses by the way of generall Councels was the cause of all differences in Reformed Churches 5 The Protestants contentions for Gods cause as they take it are nothing so hote or troublesome as the contentions of many ancient holy Fathers haue beene about smaller matters §. 1. Antiquus YEt I cannot thinke but in the vndoubted and vncorrupted writings of the Fathers you find many things differing from the Doctrine of Protestants It cannot be otherwise for the Protestants differ among themselues the English from the German the German from the French one Nation from another and in euery Nation one company from another It is possible the Fathers may disagree from them all but to agree with them all that agree not among themselues it is impossible Besides the Protestants disagreements are so great with such bitter contentions and virulent writing one against another that they shew themselues not to be of the Church of God which is a City at vnity in it selfe and consists of men more mortifyed in their affections I tell you truely these disagreements and contentions do mightily alienate mens affections from your Religion Antiquissimus Your obiection hath three parts 1 Differences of the Fathers from vs 2 Differences among our selues 3 The hot contentions of Protestants for these differences Let me answer them in order First I doe ingenuously confesse that the Fathers do in many things differ from vs and no whit lesse from you Though they were very Reuerend learned holy men yet still they were men and had their errours and imperfections Your owne men first discouered them as Cham did his Fathers nakednesse and told his brethren Gen. 9. and we cannot hide them though wee gladly would and with Sem and Japhet turne our backs on theÌ„ neither is it now expedient when you so much vilifie the Scriptures and magnifie the Fathers beyond their right and seeke to draw the tryall of the truth of Religion rather then the Riuelets of Fathers and Histories then from the Fountaine of the Scriptures We must therfore tell you more necessarily theÌ„ willingly what your own men haue said of the Fathers slips and errours wherein not onely we but themselues are constrained for the truthes sake to forsake them And yet both wee and they account the same Fathers our predecessors for the other necessary points of sauing faith which they soundly held neither doe we any way doubt but that they are blessed Saints in Heauen Baron an 118. n. 2. Senous Bibl. lib. 5. amos 233. 1 Your Cardinall Baronius and Sixtus Senensis reckon vp many Fathers that held the Millenary errour to wit Papias the scholler of Iohn the Apostle Evangelist Apollinarius Irenaeus Tertullianus Victorinus Lactantius Seuerus Sulpitius Justin Martyr many other Catholike Fathers being deceiued by Papias Bish of Hierapolis a man much reuerenced for opinion of his Holinesse and learning Baron ib. n. 5. c. n. 2. citing Eusebius but yet homo ingenij pertenuis saith Eusebius who taught it as a tradition receiued from the Apostles and grounded vpon Revel 20. v. 4 5. The matter was this That there should be two Resurrections the first of the godly to liue with Christ a thousand yeeres on earth in all worldly happinesse before the wicked should awake out of the sleepe of death and after that thousand yeeres the second Resurrection of the wicked should be to eternall death and the godly should ascend to eternall life Baron an 373. n. 14. This errour continued almost two hundred yeeres after it began before it was condemned for an heresie and was held by so many Church-men of great account and Martyrs that Saint Augustine and Ierom did very modestly dissent saith Senensis ib. Concil Carthag in Cypriani operib 2 Saint Cyprian held that such as were baptized by heretickes should be rebaptized and so determined with a whole Councell of African Bishops Contrary to the African Bishops in the time of Aurelius and contrary to Cornelius Bishop of Rome and the rest of the Italian Bishops And yet was Cyprian alwayes counted a Saint a true member of the Church an holy Martyr Bellar. de confir lib. 2. cap. 7. §. respond ad 1. Aug. cont 2. ep Pelag. lib. 4. c. 8. Aug.
Edwards dayes as appeareth both by your Doctor Sanders confession l Sanders de schism lib. 3. pag. 297. And by our publicke Records or Registers m Extracted published in Mr. Masons booke Ridley 1547. Ferrar 1549. Hooper 1550. Poynet 1550. Scory and Couerdale 1551. In whose consecrations good and fit prayers were vsed and all necessary ceremonies as of imposition of hands c. Auoyding onely vnnecessary superfluous superstitions Ceremonies as we call them which your owne men confesse to be accidentall things onely and not touching the essence of orders without which orders may well stand and be prefect enough Of Queene Maries time you make no doubt all was according to your minde all the Bishops and Priests were true and Canonicall and might well deliuer the like to posterity I speake this ex concessis And of Queene Elizabeths time you haue as little reason to doubt Sect. 7. Antiq. Yes for in the very beginning of Queene Elizabeths time some Bishops were depriued See Arnâ—ls of Elizabeth Engglish Darâ—â— pag. 32. and the rest denyed to consecrate new ones So that for the consecration of D. Parker Archbishop of Canterbury there could not be found Bishops to do it D. Sanders saith you had neither 3 nor 2 Bishps to do it D. Kellison saith you could finde none Antiquissimus This is a shameles vntruth For when the Deane and Chapter had elected D. Parker for their Archbishops according to the ancient and inuiolated custome of the Church as the Record n Register Mat. Parker saith the Queene sent her letters Patents to seuen Bishops giuing commission that they or at least foure of them should consecrate him c And foure of them did it accordingly the 17 of December 1559. To wit William Barlow and Iohn Hodgskins both made Bishops in King Henries Dayes and John Scory and Miles Couerdale made Bishops in King Edwards dayes Antiq. There may be some doubt whether these were Bishops or no because they fled and left their Bishoprickes in Queene Maries dayes and other Bishops were placed in their roomes Antiquissimus These prelats did but as Athanasius and many other holy Bishops did in the dangerous times of the domineering Arrians Matth. 10. â—3 who according to Christs precept fled to saue their liues and reserue their gifts to better times But as Athanasius and those otâ—er Bishops were still accounted the true Bishops and those that were set vp in their roomes were accounted vsurpers and put downe when those better times came and the other true Bishops restored to their places so at the comming of Elizabeths happy times these Bishops that fled were recalled returned and restored to their former places or preferred to other Now except you will condemne that most worthy Athanasius and the other for no Bishops in the time of their exile when others had their places you cannot reiect these worthy men as no Bishops their case being the same with those ancient Bishops And of all other you should least quarrell at these things For you know there are many in your Roman Church both Bishops and Priests which haue no particular places Bishoprickes or Benefices and yet you account them true Bishops and Priests Such was Olaus Magnus Archiepiscopus Vpsalensis o Gentil in Examine and blind Robert Archiepiscopus Armachanus p Jdem ib. Who both were sent by the Pope to the Councell of Trent to fill vp the number of Bishops q Sleidan com lib. 17. And Robert King entituled Episcopus Roanensis r Goodwin Catalogo in the Archbishoprick of Athens in Grecia vnder the Turke and many the like And your innumerable Priests without Benefices sent into England and other Countries Your owne Bellarmine saith Å¿ Bellar. De Sacram conf lib. 2. cap. 12. in fine Respondeo Suffraganeos esse verè episcopos quia ordinationem habent iurisdictionem licet careant possessione pro priae ecclesia They are true Bishops which haue ordination and Iurisdiction though they want the possession of their proper Church And this also warranteth our Suffragan Bishops wherof we had some in later times who had both due consecration by three Bishops and also Iurisdiction though not very large as other Bishops had t By the statute of 26. H. 8. c. 14. Antiquus Since you haue so well satisfied mee of Archbishop Parkers consecration when true Bishops willing to put to their hands were so hard to be found I need not doubt of the rest of al the Bishops the in more plentifull reignes of Queene Elizâ—beth or King Iames since D. Sanders u Sanders de schism lib. 3. pag 297. confesseth that the Law of King Henry 8 for consecration by three Bishops was reuiued by Queene Elizabeth and standeth in force and hath been very duely obserued in these later times Antiquissimus If you desire yet fuller satisfaction you may see the Consecrations of the Bishops in both these Princes raignes set downe largely in Master Masons booke together with a deriuation of the Episcopall line from the Bishops of King Henry 8 which you acknowledge to be Canonicall vnto George now Lord Archbishop of Canterbury with the dayes and yeares when euery of them and their Consecrators were consecrated euer more by three former Bishops and sometimes by foure or more I conclude with Bishop Andrewes answere to Bellarmine Eliensis Responsio ad Bellarmini Apologiam contra Praefationem monitoriam Iacobi Regis cap. 7. pag. 168. Our Bishops haue been alwayes ordayned by three true Bishops Bishops not as you sometimes against the CanoÌ„s by abbots Also by true Bishops euen your Bishops except yours be not true This Canon was neuer violated by vs nor that order euer interrupted And in our Bishops there is res Episcopi non nomen solum et opus non opes the office and not onely the benefice Which they performe much more frequently and diligently then yours doe Sect. 8. Antiquus I haue been very much wronged and abused with the contrary opinion which our teacherr hold so confidently and vrge so vehemently with such seeming certaine knowledge of the trueth that I thought it a shame to doubt of it And I confesse it was one principall cause of my alienation from hearing or regarding your Ministers whom otherwise I knew to be very honest and learned men Antiquissimus You may see by this how mens mindes leauened with malice will Imagine euill without cause and how mightily their passions and affections transport them to receiue vayne surmises for truest oracles and vent them for arguments vnanswerable This may occasion you to suspect their dealing in other things And as you do wisely and religiously to yeeld to the manifest truth grâ—euing that you haue been abused by the vnskilfull or deluded by the willfull euill teachers so I hope when others see the same truth they will be stayed from falling and they that haue fallen be restored to the bosome of their naturall