Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	comforter_n	father_n	spirit_n	4,076	5	5.9897	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A45831	Rome is no rule, or, An answer to an epistle published by a Roman Catholic who stiles himself Cap. Robert Everard and may serve for an answer to two Popish treatises, the one entituled The question of questions, and the other Fiat lux, out of which books the arguments urged in the said epistle against the authority of the Scriptures and the infallibility of the Roman Church are collected : in which answer, the authority of the Scriptures is vindicated and the arguments for the Roman infallibility refuted / by J.I.	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1664 (1664)	Wing I1103B; ESTC R41015	38,546	134

he cannot reclaim him he must tell the Church which cannot be understood for any but that particular Church among whom he resides which you say are such as may err in judgment 3 By the same parity of reason a single private man cannot err because the Text saith he ought to be heard if he admonish his brother of his fault ver 15 16 17. and that it is his brothers sin if he do not hear him and the Text further saith If his brother do hear him that he hath gained his brother But if this brother might err then he might err in admonishing and the admonished person in stead of being gained to the Truth might be gained to an errour This is the sum of your Argument I am to hear the Church therefore the Church cannot err might you not as Logically infer that because I am to hear a single private brother therefore a single private brother cannot err and by this you would make all the Sons of your Church infallible like the Pope your Father and by this rule Parents are infallible because they must be heard by their children Your next Scriptures are Mat. 28.20 Lo I am with you always to the end of the world and Joh. 24.16 I will pray the Father and he will send you another Comforter that he may abide with you for ever even the Spirit of Truth which the World cannot receive and ver 26. The Comforter which is the Holy Ghost which the Father will send in my name he shall teach you all things and bring all things into your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you and Chap. 16.17 I have many things to say unto you but you cannot hear them now howbeit when the Spirit of Truth is come he will guide you into all Truth From which you infer that if Christ and his Spirit should be with his Apostles for ever to lead them into all Truth it follows they shall be preserved from all errour To which I answer 1. That this Text in St. Mathew cannot be a good argument for you because you say you have lost the Original of St. Mathews Gospel and cannot tell whether he that did translate it was an honest man or no. 2 The Spirit of Christ might preserve the Apostles from all Errour and yet not be engaged to secure the Church from erring to the end of the World But 3 I answer further If this promise was made that the Holy Spirit should lead the Church in all Ages into all Truth it doth not follow as I have said that it should lead them irresistably though it might lead them sufficiently But 4. May I not as well infer that because the Spirit was promised to convince the World of sin because they believe not in Christ that therefore all the world cannot be but effectually and irresistably convinced as you may say that because the Spirit is promised to lead into all Truth that therefore the Church cannot err but must be effectually so led 5 It is called the Spirit of Truth which the World cannot receive meaning notorious and wicked men Now then this Spirit some of those Popes which you call the Apostles successors could not have because many of them have been notoriously and confessedly wicked all which doth plainly shew that this promise of the Spirit was made to direct and guide us into a further knowledge of the Truth till we come to be perfect in Christ upon condition that we are faithful in what we already know Like unto that promise Joh. 17.17 If any man do his will he shall know of his doctrine and to this agrees the Rhemi●● Testament translating that Text of John 14.15 16. If you love me keep my comandements and I will pray the Father and he will give you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for ever Now how can I be infallible that the Pope is thus guided unless I do infallibly know that he loves God and keeps his Commandements 6 You say 〈◊〉 into all Truth implies preserving from all errour but this follow not not more then because the Scriptures say Gods goodness leads to Repentance that therefore all men should be preserved from impenitency And lastly If leading into all truth implies preserving from all Error how comes it to pass that since your Church as you say is an infallible guide into all Truth that she doth not preserve all her sons from all Errour And if you shall say see doth guide them all sufficiently though not efficiently although that be false yet you have answered your self For though Gods Spirit and goodness be sufficient to lead to Truth and Repentance yet it doth not follow but there are as sad experience teacheth multitudes of erring and impenitent persons Your next Text is Ephes 4.11 He gave some Prophets some Evangelists some Pastors and some Teachers for perfecting the Saints for the work of the Ministry for the edifying the body of Christ till we come in the union of the faith and ver 14. that we be no more children in understanding c. From which Text you would prove that the succession of the Apostles in the Church was to preserve people from being tossed to and fro with every wind of Doctrine but what then doth this prove the Church cannot err This means was used by God for the perfecting of Saints and yet we see that they are full of imperfections Thus God may teach and the Church not learn Gods Spirit may lead and the Church like Rome may be refractory Your last Text is 1 Tim. 3.15 The Church of the living God the Pillar and ground of Trust. Hence you would infer that the Church cannot err because we may securely relye upon her as upon a Pillar To which I answer That these words do not respect the universal Church as you would have it but the particular Church which Timothy had the oversight of in which Paul admonisheth him how he should behave himself But 2. If this were granted that the universal Church is here meant and not a particular Church I answer that this proves nothing to your purpose because Churches and People receive their denomination ordinarily from what they should be in point of Duty and not from what they are by necessity Thus the Disciples are called the Salt of the Earth because they were in duty to be so and not that there was a necessity that they could not have been otherwise else it had been in vain to threaten them that if they lost their savour they should be good for nothing but to be trodden under foot In like manner the Church is the Pillar of Truth and ground of in point of Duty and yet this doth not hinder but she may neglect and violate this Duty and become the Teacher of Errour But lastly The Church may be the Pillar and Ground of Truth not only because she should be so but because in all Ages she is so in that she teacheth and maintaineth

When you say you made this search according to the uttermost of your understanding how do you infallibly know that your understanding was not depraved and that you were not given over to an injudicious mind Fourthly Did you not pretend to have used the same means to find out the true Church when you turned an Independent as you did when you did turn Papist Lastly If so how are you more able to Answer the Turk or Jew now then you were when your Catholick Friend began to discourse with you In the latter end of p. 8. and the beginning of the 9. You say that You gathered from Heb. 1● 6 Mark 16.16 Eph. 4.5 2 Cor. 10.45 Heb 10.13 From all which scriptures where God requires Faith you say you thought it did naturally follow that there must be some means appointed by God by which we may know this true faith from all false Opinions or else you say p. 10. that prophesie would be ineffectual Esay 35. Say to them that are of a fearfull heart Be strang fear not hebold your God will come and save you Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened and the eares of the deaf shall be unstopped c. There shall be one high way and a way and it shall be called the holy way the way faring men though fools shall not erre therein Now since God hath appointed such a way Your great difficulty you say is to finde out the Rule and the Judge since one party proposeth the spirit to be his guide a Second proposeth Reason to be his Rule A Third proposeth Scriptures The Fourth assigneth the Holy Catholick Church c. You answer to the First and say That the spirit bearing witness with our spirts or in plain terms the private spirit is not that judge Your reason is because any one whether he be Jew Pagan or Christian if he have but confidence enough may pretend to the Spirit But since you say the great difficulty is to finde out the Rule I would gladly know how this difficulty shall be infallibly resolved For if the private spirit within me must not resolve me nor my reason must not be my Rule nor the Scriptures my Guide then I have no light left me to shew me the Church but the Church Thus they deal like thieves put out all other lights that should discover them but their own dark lanthorn But if you shall say that you prove the Church by Miracles How shall I be satisfied that those Miracles are not delusions Since as many pretend to the spirit that have it not So many pretend to miracles that have them not Then we must have faith to believe those miracles are true and if they are true they are no otherwise true but by the spirit of God Then it is the same absurdity to believe miracles by the spirits testimony as it is to believe the Scriptures by the spirits testimony But this also implies a contradiction for if I must finde the Church by the light of the spirit perswading me that she doth those miracles by the power of God then ●ave you contradicted your self by saying The spirit is not the guide But further may not a man as well say that he believes he hath the spirit by the spirit and that he believes the Scriptures by the Scriptures as you say you believe the Church by the Church I am sure the last is the greatest absurdity and may not a Turk say the same for his way that he believers Mahomet by Mahomet and the Alcoran by the Alcoran as you believe the Church by the Church Now if you shall say you believe the Church by the Scripture then the question will be how you know them to be the Word of God If you say because the Church teaches they are so then you run round like a horse in a Mill proving the Church by the Scripture and the Scripture by the Church You give another Reason why the spirit witnessing within us is not the guide appointed by God because by this none that ever pretended to it did reconcile differences Pray let charity begin at home if your Church be so infallible why do not you decide the differences that are between the Jesuites and the Dominicans hath not as endless controversies arisen among you Hath not as many Errours and Schismes sprung from you as from any People professing Christianity And would not your divisions be greater if the power of the Sword did not prevail more then your pretended Infallibility And whereas you say St. John prescribeth a Rule to know the Spirit of Truth from the Spirit of Errour 1 Joh. 4. We are of God he that knoweth God heareth us and he that is not of God heareth not us Hereby we know the Spirit of Truth from the Spirit of Errour Now what is this to your purpose unless you would still beg the question That your Church and her Doctors are intended in those words WE and US But what if it be proved that you do not hear the Apostles Then it follows by the Text and your own Argument that you have the Spirit of Errour Now the Apostle taught that a Man should examine himself and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup but you deny the cup to the common people is this hearing the Apostles The Apostle allows the Bishops to be Husbands of one Wife but you forbid that they should have any at all The Apostles would not have Prayers said in a Language that the People understood not but you command it Christ and the Apostles commanded a diligent reading and searching of the Scriptures but you forbid it and yet you are the only Men that must be heard though you teach contrary to Scripture You go on and say That Reason must not be our Judge because it must submit to the Judge as a Subject c. I pray what was your Judge who resolved the question which you say had so much difficulty in it viz. who should direct you whether any Church was Infallible or no or where that Church was to be found Did your reason guide you in this search or no If it did not I do not wonder you made no better choise but you say Reason is not your Rule because it was to submit as a Vassall to that Rule and Judge But Sir Though the Church of Rome which you call your Judge do exercise such a Lordship over the reasons of Men I am sure you have given no reason why it should be so You say Reason is apt to mistake and therefore we ought not to be governed by it But Sir what if I say the Pope is apt to mistake and therefore I ought not to be governed by him I am sure if that be made to appear in the judgment of Reason then Reason will guide me to decline following such a blind Guide As for example Liberius that was Pope about the year 350 fell into Arianism and subscribed to