Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	true_a	way_n	4,442	5	5.1488	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80765	The disputes between Mr. Cranford, and Dr. Chamberlen. At the house of Mr. William Webb, at the end of Bartholomew Lane, by the Old Exchange: on March 1. 1652, and April 1. 6. 13. / Published for the satisfaction of all that love the truth.	Cranford, James, d. 1657.; Chamberlen, Peter, 1601-1683.	1652 (1652)	Wing C6822; Thomason E666_6; ESTC R206920	19,015	40

Con. Therefore baptized Churches baptize such as shall be saved Mr. Cr. and some of his Party began to deride and say this was in gyro idem per idem All that are saved confesse and believe All that confesse and believe are saved Said Dr. Chamb. it is the greater truth in being reciprocal according to all the rules of truth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 With this the Company seemed to acquiesce in continuation of this promiscuous discourse Mr. Cranf used the word Renegado againe and said that baptized Churches baptized such as denyed the Faith not such as professed the Faith therefore we were all Renegadoes Dr. Chamb. replied I shall prove you so Mr. Cranf bid him do Dr. Chamb. Ma. They that practise what they neither have command nor example for practise what they should not Mi. But you who sprinkle Infants practise what you neither have command nor example for Mr. Cranf cried out is this to prove us Renegadoes Make your Conclusion Said Dr. Chamb. I was loath to use words of provocation and that are not written but Mr Cranf continuing in derision Dr. Chamb. said then I le prove you Renegadoes They that speak Lyes in Hipocrisie are Renegadoes But you speak Lyes in Hypocrisie Here the meeting broke up abruptly The last meeting between Mr. Cranford and Dr. Chamberlen at Mr. Webbs house at Bartholomew Lane end was on the 13. of April 1652. THe Question was still Whether Ministers of London Presbyterian Ministers were the Ministers of Jesus Christ Mr. Cranf as before Respondent Dr. Chamb. Opponent After Prayer as formerly the Dispute began in writing being so agreed the time before Dr. Chamb. began his Argument thus Ma. They that are Ministers of Jesus Christ are Ordained by Jesus Christ Mi. But Presbyterian Ministers of London are not Ordained by Jesus Christ Con. Therefore they are not Ministers of Jesus Christ Mr. Cranf Negatur Minor The Ministers are Ordained by Jesus Christ Mediately Dr. Chamb. Ma. They that are Ordained by Antichrist are not Ordained by Jesus Christ Mi. But Presbyterian Ministers of London are Ordained by Antichrist Con. Therefore they are not Ordained by Jesus Christ Mr. Cranf Negatur Minor Dr. Chamb. Ma. They that are Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares are Ordained by Antichrist Mi. But Presbyterian Ministers of London are Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares Con. Therefore they are Ordained by Antichrist Mr. Cranf Negatur Minor Dr. Chamb. Ma. They that are ordained by those who were Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares are Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares Mi. But Presbyterian Ministers of London are Ordained by those who were Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares Con. Therefore they are Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares Mr. Cranf Negatur Minor Dr. Chamb. Ma. They who were Ordained by the Bishops of England and their Successours within these thousand yeares are Ordained by those who were Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares Mi. But Presbyterian Ministers of London are Ordained by Bishops of England and their Successors within these thousand yeares Con. Therefore they are Ordained by those who were Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares Mr. Cranf Negatur Major Dr. Chamb. Ma. If they were Ordained by the Power or Ministers of the Pope c. then they were Ordained by the Pope c. Mi. But they were Ordained by the Power or Ministers of the Pope within these thousand yeares Con. Therefore they were Ordained by the Pope within these thousand yeares Mr. Cranf Negat Min. Dr. Chamb. Ma. If the Bishops of England within these thousand years were not Ordained by the Power nor Ministers of the Pope within these thousand yeares Then there were some Bishops in King Henry 7. and K. Hen. 8. dayes neither Ordained by the Pope nor Ministers of the Pope within these thousand yeares Mi. But there were no such Bishops in K. Hen. 7. nor King Hen. 8. dayes Con. Therefore they were Ordained by the Power or Ministers of the Pope within these thousand yeares Mr. Cranf Negat Mi. Dr. Chamb. Name any Mr. Cranf do you prove there were none Dr. Chamb. Ma. If there were any such then either they were allowed or disalowed Min. But there were neither any allowed nor disallowed that were such Con. Therefore there were none such Mr. Cranf Negat Minor None of the allowed Ministers were Ordained by the Pope Dr. Chamb. Ma. If the Pope had power at that time to place and displace whom he pleased then they were Ordained by the Pope Mi. But the Pope had power to place and displace whom he pleased Con. Therefore they were Ordained by the Pope Mr. Cranf Negat consequentia Minor est falsa Dr. Chamb. Power of Ordination you grant is Approbation and Imposition of hands Ma. If their placing and displacing were a consequence of their Ordination then the consequence is true Mi. But their placing and displacing was a consequence of their Ordination Mr. Cranf Negat consequentia Dr. Chamb. Ma. If the Pope had power of placing and displacing of Bishops then he had power of their Ordination Mi. But the Pope had power of placing and displacing of Bishops If placing and displacing of Bishops be greater then their Ordination then the Pope who did place and displace did also Ordaine Mr. Cranford Negatur consequentia The Civil Magistrate may remove or displace Ministers but may not Ordaine Ministers To place and displace is not greater then to Ordaine Dr. Chamb. Ma. If what the Pope did he did it as an Officer of the Church and it was so publickly acknowledged then the consequence is true Mi. But what the Pope did he did it as an Officer of the Church and it was so publickly acknowledged Mr. Cranf Negat consequentia Though the Pope had power to do it he did not do it Some discourses as betwwen all the rest of the latter Syllogisme interrupted the clear dispute and then Dr. Chamb. followed with this argument to the discourse that was Ma. If all the particular parts and faculties of the Church of England were under the power and Ministry of the Pope of Rome then Bishops were Ordained by the power of the Pope of Rome Mr. Cranf Negat consequentia Dr. Chamb. Ma. If so then Ordination is no part or faculty of the Church Mi. But Ordination is a part Ergo. Mr. Cranf Ne. consequentia Minor etiam est falsa The Church of Rome though it were Ulcerous yet was a true Church of Christ as a man is a man though full of Ulcers Truth came out of the Church of Rome The Scriptures that have been conveyed through the Church of Rome are true Scriptures Dr. Chamb. denyed that Truth came out of the Church of Rome or that the Scriptures were conveyed through the Ulcerous Church of Rome What is of their conveyance is not true Mr. Cranf often acknowledged that the Church of Rome was Ulcerous and Dr.

THE DISPUTES BETWEEN Mr. CRANFORD AND Dr. CHAMBERLEN At the house of Mr. WILLIAM WEBB at the end of Bartholomew Lane by the Old Exchange On March 1. 1652 and April 1. 6. 13. Published for the satisfaction of all that love the TRUTH MATTH 11.19 Wisdome is justified of her Children LONDON Printed by Gartrude Dawson and are to be sold by Gyles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle near the West end of Paules 1652. THat the Children of Truth may be sustained with Truth as the Children of Errour gorge themselves with the contrary It hath been thought requisite by divers to let those hours fly abroad into the World with faithfull Records which were for a while limited to a private house and small auditory Dr. Chamberlen being at first confined to two or three of his party and all the rest of Mr. Cranfords party unconfined The occasion was from one of Mr. William Webb's servants Mr. John More who being convinced of the Erronious Practises of the Ministers of England was Baptized the first of February one thousand six hundred fifty two whereupon his Master being displeased these Letters and Disputes following were occasioned The Copie of a Letter left at Dr. Chamberlen's about the second or third of February last A Letter left at my house intimating the first occasion of this Dispute BROTHER CHAMBERLEN OUr brother John More who was lately baptized and my self were here to acquaint you that through the earnest solicitation of his Master who is at present very much displeased with him about his present judgement he is ingaged to procure your assistance under God to dispute these two points with Mr. Cranford Our Brothers Master being very confident that Mr. Cranford will give you the foile therein The Questions are these 1 Whether or no a private person may Preach without Ordination 2 Whether or no the Presbyterian-Ministers be not the true Ministers of the Gospel Our Brothers Master desireth the meeting should be at his house he having a convenient Roome We desire you would consider of the Chalenge and likewise of a convenient time to meet Mr. Cranford which is all at present from Your ever loving Brothers John More John Spittlehouse At your house February 2. 1652. UPon which Letter Dr. Chamberlen consented to a meeting when Mr. Cranford should appoint The Questions being sent him under Mr. Webbs hand but being delayd and the noise of it being amongst Mr. Cranford's Party they began to report that Dr. Chamberlen durst not meet which put Mr. John More to a more eager prosecuting of the businesse with his Master and Mr. Cranford till at last he went with a Paper whereof the Copie followeth from his Master to Mr. Cranford The Copie of the Paper is thus The Questions stated by Mr. William Webb he ingaging for Mr. Cranford his appearance to dispute them with Dr. Chamberlen for whom I ingage Feb. 24. 1652. JOHN MORE Sir The expresse words are these which if you shall please to correct you may provided you under-write them 1 Whether the Ministers of London Presbyterian-Ministers be not Ministers of Jesus Christ 2 Whether private men I mean tradesmen may preach the Word of God without Ordination in the City of London This Paper was presented by the said Mr. More to Mr. Cranford which he owned but would not subscribe it To my much desired Friend Mr. Cranford SIR ALthough the Discourse that passed between us hath done that work which you say you intended yet hath it not taken that Effect I desired so long as you are disobedient to the Truth and so many misreports scattered into the eares of those that were not present I shall therefore humbly desire you to peruse these our Discourses in all faithfullness too your own soul They come forth with the Syllogisme compleated that they might not be fruitlesse to the Reader I have not accompanied them with many Observations till I see what acceptance they find on your behalfe for I would faine winne you by Truth and Love If all the Particulars of our Discourses be not in you may if you please supply what is wanting from some of your Party on whom I have waited somewhat the longer in expectation that you would have published them as was reported If yet you are not convinced but desire rather to mend any of your Answers or Discourses and to proceed in writings as formerly in speakings I shall be ready to endeavour your satisfaction by writing also provided that whatsoever is published on your behalf do bear your Name since no man can likely meddle with your businesse without your approbation In all which I shall endeavour not to depart from the civility and sincerity of being Yours in the Lord Peter Chamberlen A PRAYER O Father of Lights John 1.17 who gavest thy Son John 3.17 a Light unto the World Chap. 12.46 to be the Way the Truth and the Life Chap. 14.6 Who hath promised to give a mouth and wisdome to thy servants which all their adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist Luke 21.15 Unvaile thy Truth O Lord to all that love it that they may find and come into the way which leadeth unto Eternal Life And give me a mouth and wisdome to convince gainsayers to the saving of Soules Tit. 1.9 Through Jesus Christ our Lord Amen On the 25. of MARCH 1652. was the first meeting The Result whereof followeth AFter prayer against Prejudicacies and for the the Truth and a solemn Protestation to endeavour Truth not Victory The Questions being read by Dr. Chamberlen and owned by Mr. Cranford to have been presented to him It was thought good to fall upon the last first according to the first Letter because it was a subject which had been formerly disputed of betwen Mr. Cranford and Mr. Rowley at one Mr. Williamsons Mr. Chamberlen comming in accidentally The Conclusion of the Dispute ended in this That Mr. Cranford freely granted That in Eclesia non constituta or male constituta It was not onely lawfull for any Man but any Woman or Mayd to preach the Gospell The Arguments then by Dr. Chamberlen having been from 1 Cor. 14.31 Where all might Prophesie one by one and from Rom. 16.1 where Phebe is termed a Deaconesse of the Church of Cenchrea and divers other places and instances of Deborah and H●ldad and 1 Cor. 11.5 Act. 21.9 Act. 18.26 Pilip 4.3 c. The Question sent was Whether Private Men I mean Tradesmen may Preach the Word of God without Ordination in the City of London But Mr. Cranford not liking of the Question in those termes the Question altered by him was thus Whether Prvate Men or Tradesmen may Preach the Word of God without Ordination Having propounded the Question he explained it as followeth That by Private Men he meant in reference to Station or Calling And that sons of the Prophets might be Private Men though Publick by Designation By Preach he meant to Expound and Apply to Admonish Exhort Reprove Preaching is