Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	true_a	way_n	4,442	5	5.1488	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A30498	The holy truth and its professors defended in an answer to a letter writ by Lawrence Potts, priest of Staplestown near Catherlough, unto Robert Lacky, a parishioner and formerly hearer of the said priest, occassioned by his forsaking his ministry and embracing the blessed truth herein vindicated / by John Burnyeat [and] John Watson.	Burnyeat, John, 1631-1690.; Watson, John, 1650?-1710.	1688 (1688)	Wing B5966; ESTC R36040	22,397	32

says that God is Love and the more a man hath of Love the nearer he doth approach to the Nature of God and so tellest us what Paul saith of Charity c. But what doth all this towards the proving us to be defective in this great badge and mark of a Christian Disciple That this is both your and our Duty we grant but thou dost not shew matter of Fact wherein we are guilty it is an easie matter to accuse and charge but wise men will consider how they can make good the Accusation before they charge But since thou hast provoked thereunto let us take an observation of the Works of your Church and Ministry and see how you have born this badge and mark of a Disciple of Christ or whether we can find any Defects in her or not that we may see whether there is any reason to forsake her or not For many years past the Fruits of your Church and Ministers have been such that we think it will be hard for any to say they are the badge and marks of Christian Disciples for thou speakst in thy Letter of the Protestant Religion as it is profest in the Church of England and Ireland and so it is of that Church we now have Reason to take an observation let it be considered from whence hath all that great Persecution for many years proceeded whereby so many Families have been ruined many thousands imprisoned their Goods taken away not leaving some so much as a Bed to lie upon Cattel to till the Ground nor Corn for Bread and Seed nor Tools to work withal Whipping Stocking Stoning and grievously abusing so that many thereby have lost their Lives and meerly because they could not come to your Worship for Conscience sake or for meeting together to worship God according to their Faith and in these Persecutions the Ministers have often had a hand themselves in sending forth wicked Informers and sometimes appearing in their own persons besides the great Sufferings wherein many have suffered for the Ministers Wages and Hire which hath not been a little this in England Yet we have not escaped in Ireland but have often been imprisoned for meeting together to worship the Living God as we have also been for the Ministers Wages Now these not being the acts and deeds of former ages but of our present age and of a people yet living We need not say much to make it out it being still as Wounds bleeding which may be seen therefore come to the Application and see where the Imputation of this great Desect which thou couldst not omit will fall If thou canst prove these doings of yours to be the effects of Love and Charity then thou clearest your Church from this great defect and if so may be it may be a true Church but sure they manifest quite the contrary and were never the marks of a true but of a false Church as may be seen from the days of Cain downwards So that there 's no want of Reasons why R. L and others may turn from your Church and so in turning from you to the Truth which the Quakers are Witnesses of is not unsafe but a safe way to Heaven notwithstanding all that thou hast said to the contrary in reflection upon us and our Religion as also upon him as if he had forsaken you and changed his Religion out of Covetousness for which thou neither dost nor canst give any grounded Reason and therefore having said so much already we need not say much more to these matters When he answered thee and told thee it was the Love of God manifested in his heart c. and not Covetousness neither Humours Passions nor Prejudice c. for all he tells thee so yet thou still asserts that it plainly appears to be out of Covetousness and sayest in this as in other things he shakes hands with the Papists and not meerly for Conscience sake so here as in other things thou dost charge and accuse without proving what thou sayest as if thou knew his Heart and Conscience better than himself what dost thou think who is now judging another mans Servant and who is now assuming Gods Prerogative And when he tells thee it was the Love of God manifested thou tellest him it seems to thee that God had withdrawn his Love from him in suffering him to forsake so rational and pure a Religion as the established one is for a Persuasion that has either little or no Reason or Purity in it Ans. As for your esteablished Religion what Reason and Purity is in it or the contrary we have in some measure before shewed and all that will but observe your Religion and the effects of it may easily see that this is but a vain boast in thee to set forth your Religion for such a rational and pure one And for thy saying That which he hath chosen hath little either of Reason or Purity in it it is but thy Say so thou dost not undertake to prove or make it out at all so that if people will believe what thou saist it must be because thou saist it and not from any thing thou makest appear to manifest what thou saist to be true Thou goest on still after the same rate and when he saith he felt nothing of incurring the Displeasure of the Lord but on the contrary had more Peace in his own Conscience than when under thy Teaching thou tellest him of what Paul saith of some whom God had given up to a reprobate mind and so wouldst persuade him that this is his state and when he speaks of enjoying Peace more than when under thy Doctrine thou saist the reason is plain enough while under thy Doctrine his Conscience was under a tenderness it wassore with sin c. Ans. Truly we believe there was Reason for it to be sore with Sin but he might stay long there before it would be saved from Sin and so healed from that soreness for that you never come to by your own confession for all your days you are complaining that there is no Health in you so you are like to be sore with Sin but all that see their infirmity and what Physicians of no value you are had need to look out for a better Religion and better Ministers or Physicians to their Souls So that it s still evident he had reason to forsake yours and look out for a Religion that had more Power and Vertue in it to deliver from Sin and heal the Wounds it had made but it is not to be questioned that if he had slayed with thee and lived in his vain Conversation that would have been better born with by thee than his owning of that which leads to a Reformation and so like them of old that while people put it into their mouths they cried Peace but when they did not then prepared War against them Thou tellest him of going into the Quakers old way of uncharitable censuring because he saith many of the

THE HOLY TRUTH And Its PROFESSORS DEFENDED IN AN ANSWER to a LETTER writ by Lawrence Potts Priest of Staplestown near Catherlough UNTO Robert Lacky a Parishioner and formerly Hearer of the said Priest Occasioned by his forsaking his Ministry and embracing the blessed Truth herein vindicated By John Burnyeat John Watson T●●e counsel together and it shall come to nought speak the word and it shall not stand for God is with us For the Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people saying Say ye Not a Confederacy to all them to whom this people shall say A Confederacy neither fear ye their fear nor be afraid Sanctifie the Lord of Hosts himself and let him be your fear and let him be your dread Isa. 8. 10 11 12 13. Printed in the Year 1688. ADVERTISEMENT TO THE READER Christian Reader ANother Letter coming to our hands subcribed J. T. the tendency thereof being to beget a dislike in R. L. to whom it was writ to the Principles of Truth as prosessed by us the truly reformed Christians called Quakers and to prevent the writing of more such occasion'd our making thus publick the following Answer to Priest Potts's Letter and the rather understanding the said J. T. saw it and takes no notice thereof in his although it answers the substance thereof excepting in these following particulars 1. His accounting it an Errour in us not to swear Ans. We in short say we have Christs Command for not Swearing Matt. 5. 3 4. Swear not at all and seconded by the Apostle James 5. 12. which we believe ought to be observed by all Christians 2. He charges us with denying the Trinity as he terms it Ans. We do really own the Three that bear record in Heaven the Father the Word and the Holy Ghost and these Three are One Joh. 5. 7. and we also own the Three that bear witness in Earth the Spirit the Water and the Blood and these Three agree in One as ver 8. and so we do and always did believe according to the holy Scriptures 3. He charges us with denying the Scriptures to be the Word of God. Ans. We believe the Scriptures to be what they call themselves a Testimony or Declaration as in Luke 1. 1. Joh. 5. 39. but Christ we own and believe to be the Word of God according to Joh. 1. and Rev. 19. 13. so we own the Word of the Lord that came unto the Prophets saying as in Ezek. 7. 1. and in divers othes places and we own and believe the Sayings of the Word as recorded in the holy Scriptures so the Word that came unto the Prophets was the Sayer or that which spoke unto them and the Scriptures are the words or sayings which the Word or Spirit of Christ spoke unto and through the Prophets as is evident from the Testimony of the Apostle 1 Pet. 1. 10 11. Dublin the 12th of the 9th Month. 1688. J. B. J. W. The Holy Truth and its Professors defended c. Lawrence Pots WE having met with a Paper of thine and finding our selves and others of the people called Quakers concerned therein with our Christian Religion and Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ which we are called to bear witness unto and contend for were not willing to let it pass without taking notice of thy false Charges upon us and our Religion together with thy weak Vindication of thy self with the rest of the Clergy of your Church in those things which thou hast yet to prove And we find our selves the more concerned because of thy Challenge in thy Paper where thou saist It does become your Teachers to make this plainly appear to you and me from whom they have drawn you and therefore if they can make it out I again challenge it of them and you By the way we would have thee take notice of this that Robert Lacky in his Letter to thee doth acquaint thee that it was the Light or Grace of God that let him see the Evil or Defects in himself and others and so meerly the Love of God that prevailed in his heart so that it was not Man that drew him from thee and thy Teachings but the Lord Jesus Christ the true Shepherd whom the Father promised that by his Spirit of Light and Grace did draw him and so fulfilled the Promise of the Father in Ezek. 34. 10. where he saith He would deliver his Flock from the mouth of such as fed themselves that they might not be meat for them c. In the first place we observe thou blamest him for saying If he or any other through the Light of Gods Grace in the heart do see Defects in themselves or others that profess that Religion where in they were bred he does not understand how he incurs Damnation by forsaking it c. And so in thy Answer blamest him for confounding Religion as thou sayest with the Carriage of its Professors c. Answer It 's true there may be wicked men Professors of a most holy and pure Religion and therefore for some particulars being of an evil carriage to condemn a Religion is not proper But when a man finds and understands that in the Exercise of his Religion he receives not power against Sin and Temptation in himself nor yet sees the effect of such a power in others it may be not in the very Teachers but that is lived in which answers not the Law of God nor the Life of a true Christian and yet here is no dismembring of such or excluding them from their Church-Fellowship This may justly give ground to suspect a Defect in that Religion and therefore it may be warrantable for a man under these Observations both concerning himself and others to enquire and seek after a Religion wherein Power may be enjoyed from Christ to overcome Sin and withstand Temptation and we do believe thou thy self art not ignorant how that not only many of the people of your Church are of a loose Conversation but diverse of your Clergy also and yet they suffered to abide in their Places and Offices without either being excluded or silenced though the Apostle exhorts to withdraw from every Brother that walks disorderly And again 1 Cor. 5. 11. He writes unto the Church not to keep company with any called a Brother that was a Fornicator or Covetous or an Idolater or Railer or a Drunkard or an Extortioner such thou maist see were to be denied Fellowship in the Church But we have often observed how that in your Church there have been and still are both Swearers Liars Drunkards and men given to other profaneness and yet little zeal appearing to excommunicate or exclude them But when any for Conscience sake could not pay the Priest his Wages though it were but some small matter oftentimes such a one should soon be prosecuted and excommunicated so that by your practices whatever you may profess in words you are