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truth_n	church_n	true_a	visible_a	8,046	5	9.4741	5	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87828	Seven questions about the controversie betweene the Church of England, and the Separatists and Anabaptists, breifely [sic] discussed. 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true church? 2. Whether the Church of England be a right nationall church? 3. Whether are the ministers in the Church of England sent of God, and so are true ministers or not? 4. Whether is the baptisme of infants a true and lawfull baptisme or no? 5. Whether it be lawfull to be rebaptized or not? 6. Whether it is lawfull to separate from all the publike ordinances and Christian assemblies in our English church, because there are some defects in discipline, and in other things amongst us? 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our churches (steeple-houses as the Separatists call them,) and to build them in other places, because they were built by idolators for idolatrous worship, were abused with images, and dedicated to saints? By Immanuel Knutton, preacher of Gods word at Beeston in Nottingham shire [sic].	Knutton, Immanuel, d. 1655.	1645 (1645)	Wing K744; Thomason E25_20; ESTC R4217	31,540	40

Acts 2.45 Acts. 4 34 35 36 37. this course continued about 200. yeares during which time no marvell though they required not tithes that which was given them being a farre greater proportion such as oppose the morality of tithes now would not bee willing to deale so with us Ministers of the Gospel QVEST. IIII. Whether is the Baptisme of Infants a true and lawfull Baptisme or not Answer I Affirme it is a true right lawfull and fit Baptisme and ought to be used in a Christian Church professing Gods truth Reas 1 Because excepting the difference of the visible ceremony there is the same analogie of reason of Baptisme as of circumcision the same internall spirituall thing signified viz. remission of sins mortification of the flesh Deut. 10.16 Jer. 4.4.6 Act. 2.38 Act. 22.16 Rom. 6.4 both of them are Symballs of our Adoption into Gods family and so our imitation into the Divine Covenant Gen. 17.7.10 1 Cor. 12 13. Gal. 3.26 27. besides Baptisme succeedes Circumcision Col. 2.11.12 or else the conditon of Christian infants under the Gospel were worse then the condition of Jewish Infants under the Law in regard of their age if Baptisme might not bee conferred upon them now as Circumcision upon the Jewish children if Baptisme belong not to Infants then the grace and favour of God by Christs comming is more obscure and straight and lesse testified then it was to the Jewes which to affirme is an horrible indignity offered to Christ Object But there was an expresse commandement for circumcising of Infants Gen. 17. but no such for Baptizing of Infants now Answ 1 There is a generall command Mat. 28.19 20. all that beleeve of any condition whatsoever should be Baptized under which Infants borne of Christian parents are comprehended for in Lawes and Precepts that be generall an enumeration of singulars and perticulars is not required because lawes doe command concerning the whole Kind Secondly the Baptisme of Christian Infants hath descended and continued from the Apostles dayes to us Origen who lived in the yeare 213. said that the Church received the tradition from the Apostles to give Baptisme to Infants Augustine who lived in the yeare 420. said that Baptisme of Infants the Church univerfall held it not instituted by Councells but alwaies retained it and most rightly beleeved it to be delivered by Apostolike Authority Now such examples are aequivalent to expresse commands Thirdly The New Testament doth not literally command remember to keepe holy the Sabbath not to say grace before and after meales not to pray with our families morning and evening not women to receive the Lords Supper many other such like things I might instance yet we hold this to be morall duties and ought of necssiety to be performed and may be proved sufficiently by consequence out of the New Testament Reas 2 Because Christian Infants are in the Covenant of grace as well as the children of Israelites Gen. 17.7 Act. 2.39 for this blessed Covenant is exceedingly extended and enlarged by Christ good reason then the seale of this Covenant should not be straightned nor made narrower then Circumcision was now Christian Infants being within the Covenant of Grace Baptisme the Seale of it is their right for as much as they are Christians belonging to the Church of God 1 Cor. 7.14 here he saith your children are holy if but one of the persons married be a beleever some by holy understand legetimate as if he had said your children are not bastards but lawfully begotten and borne But the Apostle speakes not of civill legitimation for the children of Infidells may be and are legitimate others construe the words thus that your children are holy viz. by education in Christianity others interpret them thus your Children are holy viz. by the secret operation and illumination of the spirit which begets in them new inclinations towards God as in John Baptist and the Prophet Jeremy Others say thus your children are holy viz. They are Christians belonging to the Covenant and to the Church this I chuse holy here is not understood civill but legally the Law called things uncleane prophane as vessells and living creatures and men without the Church and so the Law called things dedicated to God holy therefore as the children of the Jewes in the old Testament were not uncleane but holy that is they were not Gentiles but Jewes in Covenant with God from the wombe by the vigour and vertue of that promise Gen. 17.7 though by nature they were children of wrath so here Christians with their children who are adopted into the place of the Jewes now in the new Testament the Apostle calls holy that is they are not Heathens but Christians though by reason of originall sin they are borne children of wrath so according to faederall grace wee are borne Christians though according to nationall generation wee are borne sinners by vertue of which faederall sanctity Christian Infants have as cleare a right to Baptisme as Jewish Infants had to Circumcision such then who oppose faederall sanctity and teach that the custom or Baptizing Infants hath continued in the Church not from example or command in Scripture but from the degrees of the Church take part with the Papists who stifly seeke to maintaine theirs against us Reas 3 Because Infants are capeable of the thing signified therefore they may be Baptized they may have grace secretly bestowed as Jeremy and John Baptist many such belong to heaven Mat. 19.14 as if he had said of such little ones and of others affected like them doth the Kingdome of God consist Marke 10.14 Christ blessed them then we may bestow the Sacrament and seale of blessing on them Object If wee could certainely know which Infants had grace wrought in them and did belong to Heaven then we might baptize them but this we know not therefore it s the best not to baptize them til they come to riper yeares to make a profession and a confession of the Christian faith Answer First know that wee cannot infallibly discerne which man hath true grace and is elected this God only knowes we may and ought to judge very charitably upon an exact profession so upon a bare profession Phillip Baptized Simon Magus Act. 8.13 We must never Baptize any if we stay for infallible knowledge of any particular mans Election and particular Sanctification Secondly the faith of Parents may warrant their infants Baptisme yea though they have a bare historicall faith not a justifying faith if they can credere ad baptismum though not ad salutem this faith makes their children fit for Baptisme there were many in the Apostles times who were Baptized having only an historicall faith as Magus and others Object But the new Testament runnes much upon these speeches beleeve and bee baptized repent and be baptized teach and baptize now Infants are not capeable of the exercise of any of these graces nor capeable of teaching and what good can the Parents faith doe to

SEVEN QVESTIONS ABOVT THE CONTROVERSIE betweene the CHVRCH of ENGLAND AND THE Separatists and Anabaptists breifely discussed 1. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true Church 2. Whether the Church of England be a right Nationall Church 3. Whether are the Ministers in the Church of England sent of God and so are true Ministers or not 4. Whether is the Baptisme of Infants a true and lawfull Baptisme or no 5. Whether it be lawfull to be Rebaptized or not 6. Whether is it lawfull to separate from all the publike Ordinances and Christian Assemblies in our English Church because there are some defects in Discipline and in other things amongst us 7. Whether is it necessarie to demolish our Churches Steeple-houses as the Separatists call them and to build them in other places because they were built by Idolaters for Idolatrous worship were abused with Images and dedicated to Saints By IMMANVEL KNVTTON Preacher of Gods Word at Beeston in Nottingham-shire Endeavouring to keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace there is one body and one spirit even as ye are called in one hope of your calling one Lord one Faith one Baptisme one God and Father of all who is above all and through all and in you all Ephes 4.3 4 5 6. London Printed by Tho Paine and are to be sold by Andrew Kembe at Margrets Hill in Southworke Anno Dom. 1645. TO THE HONORABLE COMMITTEE of Parliament in Nottingham Immanuel Knutton Wisheth all present hapinesse and future blessednesse IT is well knowne to your Honours that I endured a long and tedious bondage at Newarke together with my godly Con-captive and fellow labourer in the work of the Ministry M. William Hewit for the space of almost thirty weekes and how God wrought our enlargement by the worthy instrument of his glory Captaine John Needham Governour of Killingworth Castle in Warwickshire But at my returne to Nottingham from Newarke I found this Garrison much distracted by some Separatists in it who desert our publike Assemblies and the Divine Ordinances and have seduced too many to their way In my conference with them I found their Tenets unchristian and themselves pertinacious in them Their tenets were these 1. The Church of England is no true Church of Christ 2. The Ministers of this Church are not true Ministers not called of God 3. Baptisme of Infants is no true Baptisme therefore not lawfull 4. It is not lawfull to heare us Ministers Preach least they should by their presence approve of our Popish calling by the Bishops and because we preach in popish steeple-houses also because wee were Baptized in our Infancy but if wee will renounce our calling by the Bishops Preach at the Market-crosse not in the Steeplehouse and be rebaptized they well heare us otherwise not 5. Our steeplehouses ought to be demolished neither is it lawfull to worship God in them These their opinions too many in this Garison approve of and follow therefore I have breifely answered their arguments and published them that I might hereby excite others more able then my selfe to handle these points of controversie more fully and in the meane time I beseech your Honours to suppresse these errours offencive both to God and the godly least these Schismes turne to heresies endeavour to extirpate all Popery Scisme and Prophainnesse as the Covenant enjoynes you which you heard worthily explicated and urged home to your consciences in St. Maries Church on Thursday August 8 by that faithfull Minister of Christ M. Richard whit-Whit-Church in his Lecture Sermon upon that Text Jer. 50.5 Almighty God establish you in his truth direct you ever by his spirit secure you and this Garrison by his presence or owne your designes with comfortable successe to the glory of his name and to the perpetuall happinesse of this Nation Amen So prayeth your Honours humble Servant Jmmanuel Knutton From my Study at Beeston August 16. 1644. ❧ SEVEN QVESTIONS about the Controversie betweene the Church of England and the Separatists and Anabaptists breifely discussed QVEST. I. Whether is the Church of England as it now stands a true Church Answer I Premize this that in this Church is much defect in Discipline and in the execution of it in comparison of other reformed Churches who in this farre exceede us Next I affirme it is a true Church yea the spouse of Christ Reas 1 First Because the Church of England hath the matter and forme of a true Church the matter of a Church are men and women in a right Logicall sence matter which is one of the causes hath this property it is passive for action is from the forme which is called the beginning of doing as matter is of suffering so are men by nature in the internall and reall worke of grace in conversion passive Phil. 2.13 such matter our Church hath it hath also the forme of a Church the forme of a thing in strict logicall sence is a chiefe cause which actuates the matter and perfects it it is a constituting cause now the forme or constituting cause of a Church is faith which brings it into relation to Christ therefore in Scripture the Church is called the Lords Spouse Vineyard House c. because of its relation to him this forme our Church hath it hath many true beleevers Now Discipline though it conduce to the well being of a Church to keep it in a sweet order yet it is not the cause of a Church it doth not give being to a Church as the cause gives being to a thing in nature a man is begotten and borne but the order he is tied to observe in his life makes him not a man but conduceth to his well being in his life so is Discipline to the Church so then our Church hath many true beleevers who by faith are united to Christ and are thereby made members of his body as the Separatists acknowledge and if they helpe to make up his body they must needs be Christs Church for his body is his Church Col. 1.18.24 Ecclsia est caetus hominum vocatorum Dr. Ames 1 Cor. 1.24 1 Cor. 10 32. Reas 2 Secondly because the Church of England hath the essentiall notes and markes of a true Church of Christ 1. One is the word of God purely and powerfully preacht profest and maintain'd which alwaies gathers a people to the Lord being so taught 2 Cron. 13.10 11 12. 2. The lawfull administration of the two Sacraments according to Christs institution Mat. 28.19 20. 3 The true obedience to the word of God a right following Christs voyce and conforming to his will John 10.27 4. The union with God by his spirit and faith and with his Saints by love Col. 1.4 2 Cor. 6.16 Rom. 8.14 Object But this Church wants the Discipline of Christ therefore no true Church Ans I confesse it wants it yet it hath these forenamed fundamentall essentiall notes by vertue whereof it s the Church of Christ as truly

Prophets frequently speake of it Isa 60. Isa 61. Isa 62. and 63. and 64. c. Jer. 30. Jer. 31. Jer. 33.12 13. Ezek. 34.25 26 27 28 29. Ezek. 36.24 Ezek. 37.25 Likewise we find these Prophets speaking of Nationall Churches amongst the Gentiles which should come and joyne with the Church of the Jewes Isa 49 23. Isa 60.16 Isa 19 24.25 Doubtlesse there shall be many famous Nationall Churches after the conversion of the Jewes which I hope drawes on fast And when those dayes are come there will be more famous National Churches then ever the old Jewish Church was Zach. 14.20.21 Object But the Church of England wants those Church Officers mentioned Eph. 4.11 which Christ left to his Church Answer Can there be no Church no Christians without them What shall we say of the Families of the Patriarkes of the Jewish Congregations under the Law yea of Christ and his Apostles Either deny them to have beene visible Churches or shew us these distinct Officers amongst them looke upon the Church since Christ was there not a worthy Church of God in Jerusalem from the time of Christs ascention till the Election of the 7 Deacons those hundred and twenty Disciples Acts 1.15 And 3000. Converts Acts 2.41 those continuall troopes that flocked to the Apostles were they no true Church Let the Apostles and Evangelists be Pastors and Doctors where were their Elders Deacons Releevers Afterwards when Deacons were ordained yet what newes is their of Elders till Acts 11.30 Yet that of Jerusalem was more forward then the rest we will not as the Separatists are wont argue from Scriptures negatively no proofe yet much probability is in St. Pauls silence He writes to Rome Corinth and other Churches Those his divine letters in a sweet Christian civillity salute even ordinary Christians and would he have utterly passed by all mention of these Church Officers amongst his so precise acknowledgement of lesser titles in others if they had beene ere this ordained Rom. 1.8 1 Cor. 15. 1 Thes 1.7 Gal. 4.15 All these notwithstanding all this were true Churches famous forward and exemplary Onely the Phillippian Church is stiled with Bishops and Deacons but no Elders besides them Phil. 1.2 But through Gods great mercy we have many who conscionably teach and feed by teaching call them what you please Lecturers Parsons Vicars c. If they preach Christ truely upon true inward abilities upon a sufficient if not perfect outward vocation such are Pastors and Doctors allowed by Christ we stand not upon circumstances and appendancies of the fashions of ordination manner of choice attire titles maintenance but if for substance these be no true Pastors and Doctors Christ never had any in his Church since the Apostles left the Earth QVEST. III. Whether are the Ministers in the Church of England sent of God and so are true Ministers or not Ans I Affirme they be true Ministers of Jesus Christ sent of God into his Vineyard to build up his Church and People as living stones upon Christ the cheif corner stone Reas 1 Because we have many Godly learned and painefull Ministers as well qualified for that worthy function as any in the world who are exceedingly dilligent in the excercise of their gifts endeavouring to convert and confirme soules to the utmost of their ability now their ability and fidility argues that God hath sent them Rom. 10.15 Jer. 23.21 22. As if he had said I gave no commission to these Prophets yet they ran as of their owne heads c. If they had received directions and creands from me and had delivered them accordingly to my people they should have laboured to have turned them from their leud courses Where the Lord shewes that the conscionable and able preaching of his word proves that he sends such about that worke Reas 2 Because That God hath blessed the labours of the Ministers of this Church to the conversion of many and to their confirmation in the truth which thing God would not have done if he had not sent them Jer. 23.32 1 Cor. 9.2 Yea. the Separatists themselves received their first Illumination Faith and other graces from the word preached by us before they made a divorcement from us Object But the Ministers of the Church of England were called by the Prelates whose calling is Antichristian from the Pope therefore they are not the Ministers of Jesus Christ Ans I grant that the calling of the Lordly Prelates as they are described in the second Article of the Covenant exercise their jurisdiction in their Courts by their Substitutes is Antichristian yet the Godly and Learned Ministers of this Church called by them are true Ministers called of God for these reasons Reas 1 Because the Prelates are Christians and so their calling of us is not altogether unlawfull with the Separates every Vlebeian Artificer hath power to elect and ordaine by vertue of his Christian profession the act of the worthiest standing for all how can they deny this right to persons in some measure qualified for this worke Reas 2 Because The Prelates are learned men and Divines many of them are judicious and orthodox in judgement against popish Heresies and have written and preacht substantially against them which yet I speake not in favour of their calling for I looke upon it as Antichristian and directly opposing Christs words in Mat. 20.25 26. Reas 3 Because The Prelates in their ordination command us to preach the Gospel truely now ● we be not rightly called because called from them then one of these things of both these must necessarily follow Either it is unlawfull for the Prelates to command us to Preach the Gospel or it is unlawfull for us to preach the Gospel as they command us I cannot see how the former can be unlawfull because their charge and command to Ministers is no waies Antichristian but Christian for they command us to preach the Gospel not as Popish Prelates but as Christians and Learned Divines now good counsell is worthy to be followed from whomsoever it comes though from an enemie I see not how the latter is unlawfull if one be qualified w●th fidelity and ability he ought to preach the word though the Prelates licenced and commanded him because as yet here was no other outward way of calling Ministers to preach in this Church of England appointed and established by authority I heard of an Usurer in this Kingdome who had gotten very much money by usury and unjust gaine he made it his only calling which doubtlesse is unlawfull it pleased God to convince him of the unlawfullnesse of his usury he made restitution largely to his debtors and sent his servant with restitution money to divers of them though his course of usury was unlawfull yet it was lawfull yea needfull for him to command his servant to carrie home restitution money to such as borrowed of him and it was lawfull for his servant to obey him in this of the like nature is