the particulars as M. Hooker said against which the gates of hell what ever they be shall never prevail And now I consider what you say It is not true c. for particular Churches are built upon a rock also But then Sir I pray how will you without a distinction answer the Text which sayes the gates of hell shall never prevail against that Church which is built on the rock You say Built they are upon divine institution c. But I suppose you do but elude and not answer here Is it all one to be built upon the rock and upon divine institution Then particular Churches should not fail for those that are built upon a rock shall never fail Particular Churches are built upon a rock also True so far as they are true beleevers Others of them are expresly said to be built upon the sand yet are they built upon Christs institution Suppose a particular Church consisting of all hypocrites it 's possible to be so having all externall Ordinances will you say those are built upon the rock Christ or will you say they are no Churches of Christ because they are not built upon Christ as a rock or foundation Neither of these can you say not the latter for they are built upon the Institution of Christ not the former for hypocrites have not Christ for their foundation but are built upon the sand Hear your own words pag. 40. If the profession of the doctrine of faith be true though the grace of faith in the professour be uncertain and may be hypocriticall and so false yet we dare not deny the nature and power of a Church to such But say I again such are not founded upon the rock Christ though they be upon his Institution Therefore Institution and rock are not both one But you confute your self when you say Christ is not the head of that Church whereof he is not the foundation and where he is the foundation he is also the rock Now say I Christ is not the head of hypocrites therefore not the foundation nor the rock for as you adde Christ is not a sandy foundation yet are they built upon the Institution of Christ and may and do fail which they could not if they were built upon Christ a rock But say you What then so may the true disciples of Christ fail in respect of bodily subsistence and yet the gates of hell never prevail against them Did Christ mean in regard of bodily subsistence that the gates of hell should not prevail against the Church Do not some particular Churches fail in regard of the truth it self and the gates of hell prevail against the souls of all their members yet Christ sayes they shall not prevail against the Church built upon the rock Or rather did he not mean it of the Catholike visible Church in this sense that he will ever have a Church in one place or other yes say you God may remove the Candlestick that is his particular Church yet he will have ever some or other particular Churches visible in one place or other That is say I God will have ever a Catholike visible Church existing in the particulars and so sayes M. Hooker visible Church doth nor fail Yet you go on to say Those Churches that were founded upon Christ and built upon that rock neither failed nor fell away But I assume those Churches that were founded upon his Institution fell away and failed therefore they were not built upon the rock You adde again If the posterity of a holy Church do degenerate they were never founded upon Christ but in an outward form True say I yet they as well as their predecessors were built upon Christs Institution Therefore to be built upon divine Institution meerly is not the same as to be built on a rock And so you have eluded not answered the argument I have but one thing more to say to your Testimonies from Mr. Whit. Junius and D. Ames You say They dispute Catholike visible Church but maintain the Catholike Church to be invisible But 1. The Church Catholike of I which those Divines speak against Papists is not the same with ours in this Dispute They intend it of the Church of the Elect of all ages and times which is the Catholike Church mentioned in the Creed as the object of our faith not of our sense but we take it in the second sense delivered in the beginning for the whole multitude of beleevers or professours of the Gospel in all places of the world at once And the parts of this Church whether particular members or particular Congregations being visible the whole or which is all one the Catholike Church must needs be visible D. Ames Med. lib. 1. cap. 31. sect 7. cap. 32. sect 1. And D. Ames by name having defined this Church to be Caetus hominum vocatorum fidelium vel caetus eorum qui sunt in Christo c Of this same Church which cannot be only the particular Church he saies it is visibilis in suis partibus and in the former chapter Sect. last Ecclesia nunquam planè desinit esse visibilis The Church Catholike of that he spake never wholly ceaseth to be visible 2. The Catholike Church which they dispute against is in the Romish sense a Catholike Romane Church animated by the Pope as an head and by Catholike Officers actually in a subordination as a Politicall body But this we deny as well as they We take it only for the whole multitude of beleevers distinguished into severall Congregations which all make up one body whereof Christ alone is the Head Survey part 1. pag. 15 16. O◠which Christ is an Head by political government We shall take it in M. Hookers words The Church is the visible kingdom of Christ in which he reigns by the Scepter of his Word and Ordinances and execution of discipline which visible kingdom of Christ is the whole Church or which is all one the Catholike Church visible in her members And now I come to my second Reason or as you call it Obj. 2 Objection The kingdom of glory one part of the meaning of the Kingdom of heaven Mat. 16.19 is not contra-distinguished to a particular Congregation but to the generall visible Church on earth You answer 1. There is not any particular Church on earth but may be upon just occasion contra-ditinguished from the kingdom of glory It may be so but very improperly and with respect to the whole Church on earth But what 's this to the Text or Objection The question is not what may be elsewhere but what is the meaning in this Text It saies not whatever thou shalt binde in a particular Congregation but in earth that is the visible Church on earth as contra-distinguished to the world here See the Keys pag. 2. s 1. and the kingdom of glory above And besides he that is bound in any particular Church is bound in all the Churches on earth and so the
whole multitude of beleevers whether in truth or in shew only Acts 8.3 Saul made havock of the Church and Acts 12.1 c. It was not any particular Church but any of any Churches any of that way Acts 9.2 which must needs signifie the Church indefinetely as opposed to the world not any particular Church Nor was it the Catholike Invisible Church that they persecuted as such for they could not know them to be such Therefore it must be the Catholike Visible Church Besides your self unawares confesse it in the following words Though the whole Church or which is all one the Catholike Church may be visible in her singular members c. Is not this to confesse a Catholike visible Church But say you So they are not a Church or though it may be visible in the severall particular Congregations yet none of them is Catholike I hope you do not imagine that any is so simple to think that the whole Church can be seen at once D. A. said well Ecclesia non est tota simul visibilis The Church he means the Catholike Church is not all visible at once or at one view then it were more then visibilis even visa not visible so much as seen I know you observe the difference But if the whole Church be visible in her members whether in the particular persons or particular Congregations is not the whole visible though not visa seen at once No more is the whole world visible but in its parts yet the world is visible No more is a Congregation of many persons visible that is seen at once yet you will not say but the whole is visible True but then none of those particular Congregations are Catholike The Catholike Church is not visible as a Church and the Church that is visible is not Catholike But 1. If there be a Catholike Church which you suppose here in these words 2. If that Church be visible in its parts the singular members which you also grant 3. If the particular Congregations as parts be also visible as Churches 4. If the whole Church be made up of chose particular Churches which are visible must not the whole or which is all one the Catholike Church be visible and then the whole Church that is visible in its parts is also Catholike and the Catholike Church is visible in its parts And is it not then true that there is a Catholike visible Church It might be added that a particular Church is not visible as a Church but as a company of men assembled for the form of the Church which you say is the Covenant is not visible And once more you seem to yeeld the Catholike visible Church when you say Though all of them the particular Congregations may be called a Catholike Church or generall Assembly if they were met together Only you adde Yet I would be loth to say that Christ giveth the power of the Keys all Ecclesiasticall power into their hands I should indeed be loth to say so for I do not yet believe that our Saviour in that Text did give the power of the Keys to the Church at all whether particular or Catholike but to Peter to the Officers for the Church To thee Peter I give the Keys of the Church c. Yet the question upon that Text is not resolved whether by Church is meant the Catholike visible or invisible Church seeing it is not to be taken for a particular Church And to this you say That I distrusting the meaning to be of the Catholike visible Church expound it rather to be meant of the Invisible mysticall Church But 1. By my word rather I did not exclude the Catholike visible Church though I was swayed by the reason annexed to incline to that sense Because that Church only is built on the rock and against that the gates of hell shall never prevail whereas particular Churches may fail And I am not alone in this Exposition 2. Visible and invisible do not specifically difference Churches but are as your self say somewhere but adjuncts of the same Church whereupon it may be true of both that by the Kingdom of heaven that is the Church ver 18. may be meant both these as included in the same Church the invisible in the visible But of which our Saviour understood it is worth enquiry Upon second thoughts not excluding the invisible I encline now to think he meant is of the Catholike visible Church The Reverend M. Hooker confesses himself inclined that way by some passages of M. Rutherford to take it of the visible Church though he deny a Catholike visible Church as well as you by the force and conviction of this Argument That Church is here meant which is built upon the Rock Christ by the visible confession of Peter But the invisible Church is not built by a visible profession such as Peters was The proposition is made good by the meaning of the words Thou hast made a confession of my self a rock and upon my self so confessed will I build my Church I must ingeniously confesse I am not convinced by this argument For the Invisible Church is also built upon that rock by a visible profession such as Peters was The invisible Church is the same Church or the same members with the visible and are all built upon the same rock by the same profession of faith True beleevers and false make the same profession of faith and the Elect are visible members of the Church though as they are elect they are invisible visible and invisible are in themselves opposite but not in several respects they may predicated of the same subject That which I observe from him is this he acknowledgeth and argues that the visible Church is here meant the question is whether the Catholike or particular visible Church is there intended For the Catholike visible much hath been said already and now I adde from his confession Upon my self so confessed will I build my Church what only a particular Church and not rather the whole Church yea rather the latter for the reason objected against the particular Church because against the visible Church particular the gates of hell have prevailed he answers The visible Church is attended in a double respect Ibid p. 2. 7. either as this or that particular Congregation or else as a Church universall existing in the particulars and in this latter sense it is taken in this place and then it is a sure and confessed truth That the visible Church doth not fail If now it be taken in the latter sense in this place for the Church universall existing in the particulars then it is meant of the Catholike visible Church not of a particular visible Church See more in M. Hookers Survey p. 217. If I may now declare my judgement take it thus Upon this rock that is my self thus confessed or this confession of my self To be the Christ the Son of the living God will I build my Evangellicall Church
The Church before Christs coming was built upon the same foundation with this difference They professed the Messiah to come The seed of the woman to break the serpents head was the foundation of their faith from the beginning till Abrahams time After that this was laid as the foundation In thy seed shall all the nations be blessed c. But the Christian or Evangelical Church is built upon this Gospel-foundation or Truth Truth That this particular person Jesus Christ is the Sonne of God and that Messiah which was to come So the woman of Samaria Joh. 4.29 Is not this the Christ and vers 42. We know that this is indeed the Christ the Saviour of the world In like manner the Eunuch Act. 8.37 If thou beleevest thou mayst And he answered and said I beleeve that Jesus Christ is the Son of God And upon this rock or Jesus Christ so confessed was every particular * Women also as well as men member converted built and consequently the Church What Church a particular Congregation yes secondarily as a part of the whole visible Church but primarily the whole Church of the New Testament and that I take to be especially the sense of the word Church in this Text though as I said not excluding the Invisible Church And herein your self seem to agree with me when you say Indeed true it is that Peter and other Preachers of the Gospel have received such a power of the Keys to open to beleevers a door into the invisible Church c But then the invisible Church cannot be excluded from one part of the meaning of the kingdom of heaven whereof Peter received the Keys and consequently the Church to which the Lord Jesus committed the Keys of the Kingdom of heaven Mat. 16.19 is not only caetus fidelium commonly called a particular Church if at all which was your assertion And once more it may be said that the visible Catholike Church cannot be excluded from one part of the meaning of the Kingdom of heaven in that Text for the reason which you give also Because there is a power of the Keys to open a door to profest beleevers into the Catholike visible Church as well as into a particular visible Church But be it meant of the invisible or visible Catholike Church or of a particular visible Church it 's manifest that in this Text the Keys are not given to the Church but the Keys of the Church are given to Peter contra-distinguished as an Officer from the Church But you object Certain it is that when by the power of the Keys a beleever is received into the invisible Church he can never be shut again out of that Church but the Keys here given to Peter have power to shut out of the Kingdom of heaven even the same persons And therefore the the Kingdom of heaven is not meant only of the invisible Church I pray Sir should not your conclusion be from those premises Therefore the Kingdom of heaven is not meant at all of the invisible Church which yet you have asserted to be part of the meaning And did you not from the beginning say that by was meant the Kingdom of grace and glory And doth not the Text say that Peter hath keys given him as well to shut out the Kingdom of heavens as open the door thereof Whatsoever thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in heaven If so then your proposition is not true That a beleever received into the Invisible Church can never be sent again out of that Church Your self say a little below pag. 8. of this second part It may truly be said whosoever is bound or loosed in any one particular Church is also bound in the Kingdom of glory and is not that as much as to be shut out of the Invisible Church You cannot but know that the judgment of Divines is that if a true beleever be excommunicated for some crime he is for a time suspended from the Kingdom of Heaven See M. Hookers Survey part 1. p. 204. Sâ—ct Visible Saints and so in a sense put out of the Invisible Church and if it were possible for him to die unrepenting he might perish and the text it self seems to justifie it when it sayes whatsoever is bound on earth shall be bound in heaven And now shall consider what you say to the reasons for my Obj. 1 Assertion The first was because that Church there meant was built upon the rock c. To which you answer It is not true that the Invisible Church onely built upon a rock For particular Churches are built upon a rock also built they are upon Divine Institution and Christ is laid for the foundation of them c. Before I answer I must distinguish of those words built upon a rock which not observed cause confusion in this present businesse Two things are here enquirable 1. What is meant by the Rock It may be taken 1. For Christ himself the tried and sure foundation as he is elswhere called and so it may be understood Matth. 7.24 built his house upon a rock opposed there to the sand 2. For Christ confessed to be the Sonne of God and the Messiah as he was by Peter professed to be upon my self so confessed will I build my Church as Mr. Hooker expoundeth it above 2. What it is to be built upon the rock Vide D. Ames Medul lib. 1. c. 5. â— s 11. It is either by internall union with Christ as the rock and foundation or by externall profession as your self insinuate to me the distinction pag. 7. when you say if they degenerate they were never founded upon Christ but in an outward form And now I shall ingeniously acknowledge my self not distinct enough when I said It is the Invisible Church which is built upon the rock c. and do confesse my self beholden to Mr. Ruth and Mr. Hooker for this light and now see that the visible Church also is built upon the rock Onely I differ from Mr. Hooker in this that be by visible Church means only a particular Church but I the Catholike visible Church as was discoursed above But now upon the former distinctions I answer That if you take the Rock for Christ himself and the building on him See part 2. pa 24. your own words It is readily c. for Internall union with him then the Invisible Church onely is built upon the rock and against that the gates of hell shall never prevail But if you understand the Rock to be that confession of Peter or rather Christ so confessed as he was by Peter and the building on that foundation for an external profession or in your words in an outward form Then I say the visible Church is so founded upon the rock But then I adde that it must not be restrained to a particular Church against which the gates of hell have prevailed which contradicts our Saviours promise but declared to the Catholike visible Church existing in
hath any virtuall power to this or that Act but he hath also a formall power to do such an Act in that case of Necessity But I assume the brethren in a case of Necessity say you have a virtuall power to ordain their Officers who can doe those Acts administer Sacraments c. therefore in that Necessity when they have no Officers they have a formal power to administer Sacraments Nor can I see any reason why those that may ordain Officers and administer censures without Officers may not also administer Sacraments For to administer Sacraments is one of the lowest acts of a Minister certainly lesse then preaching Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel Par. ◠pag. 81. q. d. that was the chiefest part of his errand saies M. Hooker And Excommunication and so admission of Officers by Election is one of the highest acts of Rule say you But you allow your brethren to preach and to elect and cast out Officers therefore they may as well if not better be allowed to administer Sacraments which yet you do deny How Independent indeed is your way how inconsistent your doctrines I wish you would at last consider it Obj. 5 I said in the fifth place The Church to which the Keys are given are said by you to be such as do all of them meet in one place for the administration of the Ordinances of Christ But the Ordinances of Christ are not to be found much lesse administred in a Church of beleevers without Officers Therefore To this you answer thus The truth is though the Ordinances may not all of them be administred in a Church of beleevers without Officers as authoritative dispensing of the Word and censures and ministration of Sacraments yet some Ordinances may be found and administred there But Sir 1. Did not you intend it of all Ordinances that they may and must be administred in a Church of beleevers Did you not define a Church to be a company of beleevers met together to enjoy all Ordinances 2. I said all the Ordinances are not to be found in a Church of beleevers without Officers you first take no notice of that but say though all may not be administred there and then confesse Some of them cannot be found and administred there Surely those that cannot be found there as some cannot cannot be administred there But say I in that Church to which the Keys were given all Ordinances which are the Keys may be found and administred Therefore that Church and yours are not the same 3. What are those Some Ordinances which may be found there 1. Two or three to meet together and pray and admonish one another c. But are two or three a Church You say somewhere 7. are the least number And may not any two or three beleevers not in your Church-order no members of any particular Church meet and pray c have they then the power of the Keys Is not reading of the word also an Ordinance of Christ and singing of Psalms c. Are these also part of the power of the Keys 2. It is an Ordinance of Christ to elect Officers for this is the power and priviledge of the Church of Brethren Let me use your own words to me in this paragraph This latter proposition is left naked and unguarded without proof and is but an ipse dixit c. for you know we deny it And suppose those were Ordinances and part of tho power of the Keys yet they are not the Ordinances that I intended viz. administration of Sacraments and censures These you have confessed though you again deny it are not to be found or administred in a Church without Officers They are not capable of administration o◠S craments without Offi p 20 there The truth is your own words the Ordinances of Christ may not all of them be administred in a Church without Officer as authoritative dispensing of the word and censures and ministration of Sacraments what need I prove my latter proposition when you confesse it But you have an help for this If a Church of beleevers may supply themselves with Officers when they want them which you know we deny unlesse you mean they may procure them elsewhere and if Officers and brethren have all ordinary Church-power which we also deny to the brethren and so all Ordinances of Christ which are ordinarily administred found there then what hindereth but that a Church of beleevers hath in it as some Ordinances formally so all radically and virtually and the same administred and administrable amongst them This discourse is a meer begging of the question first and then a varying of it A begging in that you take for granted that the Brethren have a power in the Keys eitheir formally or radically and that because they have a power to elect their own Officers If by Election you mean the Creation or making of Officers we deny then any such power If you mean a designation or choice of a fit person to be ordained by other Officers that is no power of the Keys which your self say are the Ordinances of Christ The Keys p. 2. as the preaching of the Word and administring of the Seals and censures You also vary the question by putting in two words first ordinarily administred whenas I spake of all Ordinances ordinary as those mentioned or extraordinary as Synods which your self acknowledge an Ordinance of God and I think will not say it may be administred in a particular Church of beleevers without or with Officers Secondly You shuffle in another word Administrable amongst them whereas the question was of Ordinances administred They are not all to be found much lesse administred in such a Church But all Ordinances ordinary and extraordinary are both administrable and administred in the Church to which the Keys were given therefore that and yours is not the same and that and not yours is understood in that Text. I said further If the Keys were committed to the Church Obj. 6 the particular Congregation you must mean it either objectivè for the use of the Church but that 's not to the purpose or subjectivé and then you fall into the extreme of Brownists c. To this you answer I meant it indeed subjectivè though not excluding objectivè The particular Church receiveth the power of the Keys both subjectivè to it self and objectivè for it self But I reply and ask what you mean by Subjectivè to it self and of what Church you intend it whether Entitive as you speak consisting only of beleevers without Officers or politicall with Officers If you mean that the Church Entitive of beleevers without Officers is the subject of the Keys then they have not only virtually but also formally received the Keys and may administer all Ordinances without Officers which yet you deny for Peter here received them all formally and you say as a beleever then say I beleevers not only in a Church jointly but even singly
members both at once So soon as there were members enough to make a Church they ordained them Elders and made them a politicall Church If not so yet the Apostles Paul and Barnabas were Officers to them before Catholick Officers to them as yet members only of the Catholick Church and now they being to depart ordained them Elders in their stead and made them particular politicall Churches If those members were not confederate by consent whereof the Scripture saies nothing they themselves say they were not a Church but only Materials of a Church and so members of the Catholike Church only or of none I shall say something more to this in another place I prescribe not to any mans judgement but submit it to consideration and proceed 2. The Officers of the Church 2. As a Congregation is called a Church as afore so sometimes the Officers not only distinguished but as separated into a Court are called the Church Our Saviour alluding to that custome amongst the Jews and not relating to a Congregationall Church not yet known nor yet in being And now the question returns upon us To what Church of all these the keys were committed Some say one thing some another you say to the particular Congregation which we shall consider when we have added that 3. How the Keys are given to the Church whether 3. It is to be considered in this question when the Keys are said to be given to the Church which is never said expresly in Scripture how they are understood to be given to the Church Whether 1. Objectivè 1. Objectivè that the Church is the object of the exercise of the Keys that is they are given for the good and benefit of the Church Or 2. Subjectivè 2. Subjectivè that the Church is the Subject Recipient to imploy and exercise the Keys and this either immediatly by her self in whole or in part without Officers or mediatly by her Officers that is whether the Church be the next and first subject of the Keys to convey them or any part of them to her Officers Or that she is said to be the remote subject as including the Officers to whom primarily and immediatly Christ hath committed the Keys for the good of the Church as sight is immediatly intrusted with the eyes for the good and benefit of the whole body And if it should happen that any power of the Keys should appear to be given to the Church as distinct from her Officers whether it belong first to the Catholike visible Church or to a particular Congregation The Question then is clearly this Whether the Keys of the Kingdom of heaven be given subjectivè to the Church-Catholike in her Officers on the particular Congregation without or with her Officers And now we shall consider what you resolve upon this question Thus you assert The Church to which the Lord Jesus committed the Keyes of the Kingdom of Heaven Matth. 16.29 is caetus Fidelium commonly called a particular visible Church c. To which I answered not as an Avenger there is not the least colour of that but as an Assertor giving also my reasons Of all the rest this is the most improbable sense of our Saviours words if by the Kingdom of Heaven on earth he meaneth that Church of which he spake in vers 18. But that was either the Catholike visible Church or rather the Invisible mysticall Church c. That one or both of these for by my word rather I do not exclude the other is meant and that primarily is to me still most probable upon these reasons 1. This being the first time that the Church my Church the evangelical Church is named it is not probable that our Saviour would intend it onely of a particular Congregation but of the Catholike Church for that is primarily Christs Church and that is properly built upon the rock and against that the gates of hell shall never prevail whereas as I say afterwards particular Churches may fail and have failed There is farre more colour for a particular Church to be meant Matth. 18.17 Tell the Church because excommunication is executed in a particular Church first and consequently in the Catholike Church but there is not any shadow for it in the text in hand Did Christ mean I will build my Church that is a particular Church onely upon this rock and not rather the Catholike Church and the particular secondarily as a member thereof It may be a question between the Invisible and Visible Catholike Church which is meant there as after but none till of late so much as made the question betwixt the Catholike and particular Church 2. Peter was an Apostle and had given to him the Keyes of the Catholike Church not of any particular Church for he and so his fellow-Apostles were never Pastors of any particular Church therefore it seems more reasonable that the Catholike Church is there meant They had habitually the Keyes of particular Churches in the Catholike as Pastors have habitually the Keyes of the Catholike Church in a particular They were actually Elders of the whole Church as Pastors are actually Elders of a particular Church 3. The Keyes of the Kingdom of Heaven that is the Church are given to Peter as distinguished from the Church therefore they are not there given to the Church As if a Lord should say to him whom he constitutes his Steward I give to thee the Keyes of the Family to open and shut the doors of the House could the servants or children or any for them conclude from this grant the Keyes were given to the Family was Peter the Church to whom the Keyes of the Church were given And therefore as distrusting this sense of this Scripture you say as you had said of the other Apostles and Elders The Church or Congregation of professed believers received that portion also of Church-power The Keys pag. 5. which belonged unto them if not there that is in this text in hand yet elsewhere Not here for certain whether elsewhere or no shall be tried hereafter It is not a reasonable construction of this text to say I give to thee the Keyes of the Kingdom of Heaven that is of the Church and to mean I give to the Church the Keyes of the Church I said therefore and I think truly that of all the rest this is the most improbable sense of our Saviours words that it is a particular Church to which the Keyes were given Matth. 26.19 It must then be taken of the Catholike Church either Invisible or Visible or none But you are pleased to take away the subject of this question denying any Catholike visible Church For say you I do not read that the Scripture any where acknowledges a Catholike visible Church at all It is supposed by very Judicious Divines that you may read of it often in Scripture and in this place for one It cannot be denied but the Church is often put for the