If the Publishers conteÌ„ding here be d Doctrinsa vana est ratiâ— ut accesserit Tull as he sayes himselfe to preserue the churches privileidge the thinge certaine which he chargeth his brethren with to weet that they were the troblers of Israel let him then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 * Suidas we are the laurel But if he be erronious in the one a false accuser in the other I hope among the godly wise he shall haue his demerit accordinly To the matter First that hearing of false ministers is a privileidge of Gods Church I denie it this is but the froth of his owne lips neither soled nor sauerie as wel he may say that whoredome is a womans priviledge theift a servants rebellion a subjects disobedience childrens reason and ground there is alike And to proue this thus I reason What soeuer God hath bestowed vpon his Church as her priviledge the same is to be found in his word But it is not mentioned there that true beleeuers as their priviledge ought to heare Antichristian Teachers Ergo c. The proposition is vnquestionablie certaine by these scriptures Psa 19. 7. 2. Timot 3. 15. 16. Esa 8 20. Iohn 15. 17. Act. 20. 27. Besides this is the vnanimous consent of learned writers The scriptures sayth Athanatius e Cont Gent. In Iohn hom 49. doe helpe vs with the knowledge of euerie truth Here saith Augustine f. we find whatsoeuer is to be don or not don Allthings sayth Chrisostome g Comment in 2 These 2. that are meet to be knowne in Gods word are manifested The same sayth Iustine h In Apol 2. et inst Strorâ— l. 6. Clemens i 2. Lib. 2. e. l. Paraeus k Disput Aphoris iu Bellarm de verb. dei Aphor. 1. Polanus l Synt. theol lib. 1. C. 46. Cartwright m Ansvv to the Rhem on Heb. 9 secâ— 2. B Hall n Rom. irrecon sect 16. D. Iames o Manuduct to divinit Pag. 1. others The Assumption is proved thus If the hearing in question be condemned in scripture then it is no priviledge of the Church but the first is true therfore the second The first part which is only controversall is evident cleare by these scriptures Levit. 17. 3. 4. deu 12. 5. Pro. 5. 8. Hos 4. 15. Mat. 7. 15. 2. Cor. 7. 15. 16. 17. Reuel 18. 4. Son 1. 6. 7. To this all sorts of writers ascent Zanchie p Explicat in Philp. c. 3. ver 2 pag. 17 4. Tom. 4. on philip 3. 2. Beware of doggs Writes thus Tales doctores qui testimonium non habent ab Apostolis Apostolicisque viris atque ecclesijs nempe summa diligentia ac studio curandum esse vt eos observemus cognoscamus et fugiamus Such Teachers as haue not their authortie From the Apostles and Apostolical men true churches we ought with great studie and care to obserue know auoyd them The Authors q Admon â— pag. 27. of the Admonition to the parliament affirme Whosoeuer preacheth by an vnlawfull calling he may not be heard noe though he speake the truth no more then the Devil was to be suffered howbeit he preached Christ. As God sayth One r T. C. repl 1. p. 83. 155. hath ordained that the word should be preached so also in what order by whome And therfore as we care for the truth so we must of whome we receiue it So judicious Rolloc s Comment in 1 Thes 5. 21. l. P. 228. Non audiendi et explorandi sunt nisi qui antegrestam ad id vocationeÌ„ habent aliquam They are not to be heard tryed who haue not a lawfull fore-gooing calling to the ministerie And of the same iudgment is Rivetus t Comment in psa 16. pag. 52 musculus v Comment in Mat. 7. 15. Oecolampadius x Comment in Esa c. 2. sol 20. Calvin y in Psal 16. Fenner a Interpretat Son chap. 1 â— 6. 7. Lation b Syons Plea pag. 283. yea the papists in this point are sounder then either the Pistler or his Leader Paul c The Popes first Breue dated in the years 1606 the fift in a certaine Bull sent to his Calues in England Catholikes Imight haue said chargeth them by all meanes not to goe to the parish Churches or heare their sermons least they incurre the wrath of God The Rhemists d Annot in 1. Cor. 10. sest 21 say the like so the Doway translators adde thus Such as goe vnto false Churches are to be counted of that ranke Paul speakes of in Tit. 1. Vit. who confesse they know God but in workes deny him e In 1 king chap. 5. v. 19. For the munition therfore which he speakes of here if this sinsull hearing be his best to preserue Gods Church from the attempts of adversaries Let him keepe it himself for we know oh that we had neuer knowne it by vnhappy experience the use nature of it As the Iewes of old by taking the Aegyptians for their munition f Esa 30. 2. 3. where it hath entertainment a very fyer-brand that consumeth the building a Gangrene that stayes not in one place but corrupteth by degrees the whole body kils It a Fernel Amb. physiolog l 7. â—â— p 6â—â— in a word it is as the wild Bore of the forest which wasteth the Lords vineard b VVitnesse the Church of Leiden vvhe by this meanes novv sits solâ—tary that vvas full of people thy Calse O Samaria hath cast thee off hos 8. 5. The Butler talkes of Athalias spirit compares his opposites to her but surelie were not his eyes blinded with the vnlawfull loue of his deare Delilah he might see that the similitude holds better another way Did not that wicked woman occasion trobles in Israel c 2 King 11. by seekinge to put downe their right kinge set vp her selfe a vsurper murderer in the place of him now what else speake on your credit hath this idolatrous hearing don since the time it was hatched but like the thinge that God hates sowed discord among brethren d Pro. 6. 19. why because it tendeth to the putting downe of our true king Christ Iesus to rayse vp Antichrist againe that bloodie Tirant 2. Touchinge the personall wronge here offered to his opposites as naming them the enemies of God church renters schisme-makers matching them with most notorious sinners publishinge to the world private thinges purposelie to disgrace them I thinke this not worthy of answere the men are now at rest besides such was their good walking when they liued as that his vncharitable tongue and pen cannot weakeÌ„ their wel deserued praise among the saints that knew them Notwithstanding sober words would better haue becommed him Is this religion is this conscience is this charitie To tell in the eares of the world priuate things against brethren Methinkes the
vnto by maister Robinson e Iustification of Separat pag 123 this thinge is absolutelie condemned We speakinge there of Antichristian Assemblies professe that the faythfull may not haue any spirituall coÌ„munion in their publick administrations And for proofe thereof these scriptures are alleaged f Reu 18. 3. 4. Hos 4. 14. 15. 1 Cor 10 14. 17 2 cro 6. 14. 15. Son 1. 6. 7. But sayth he in the same place this is no act of communion I answere our Christian predicessours so vnderstood it and so doe the faithfull generally to this day besides this new deuise wants as truth so common sence for it is as if one should affirme that he eates and drinkes but partaketh not in the things he useth g Hoccine credibile est aut memorabile Teren. And Act. 4. so 1 â— But it may be he thinkes the following lines will helpe him If hearing simplie were an act of communion then euery heretique or Atheist or whatsoeuer he were that should come into the church should haue communion which if it were true it were good that euery Church that will auoyd Communion with prophane men to meete in priuate and then shutt the doore when their own companie is mett together or else I cannot see * Nevv you may if you shutt â— et your eyes against the ligâ—â— a Regula 〈◊〉 est distinguere aliter omnia quae a so invicem Possum seperari how they can auoyd communion with wicked men Answ It is a certane rule as Logicians teach thinges are really to be distinguished which in themselues are to be separated each from other The ignorance of this distinction is a maine cause as I haue obserued of some mens erring in this point of hearing ffor they thinke as the Pistler here vnwiselie writes that if members of true Churches haue not communion with the vnbeleeuers which come vnto their meetings that then it will follow that they may be present in false Churches in time of publick exercise and yet haue no communion Melano l. 4. distinct Systemat theol 1. c 4 P. 58. To reply breifly for I purpose to speake more largely of this in an other place There is besides Church communion a communion in the ordinances of the Church as in the state it selfe ministerie worship Gouernment Howsoeuer therfore a man be no member actually of such or such a body And so in that respect to speake properly he hath no Church communion yet beeing there a worshipper he communicates in the actions don I say whether they are good or euill The christian Corinthians were separated formally from the Heathen-state and constituted in a true Church-state notwithstanding Paul sayth b 1 Cor. 10. that such among them as went vnto Idol Temples had there communion as how not Church communion but they communicated in the euils there practised They communicated as c Comment 1 Cor. 10. ver 18. pag. 640. Pareus layth with idols or as Ierome d on the same place phraseth it the participation of devils To be short according to Bezas e ciusdem cultus ac sacrificij sunt conscij siue in eodem sacri ficio consortes ac socij ac ejus quasivinculo in eadem religione copâ—â—lati interpretation they were guilty of the same seruise sacrifice or were companions and consorts therein and coupled themselues as it were in the same religion To apply this to our point in controuersie If an Heretick Atheist or whatsoeuer he be come to our Churches we acknowleidge he hath communion to weet in the ordinances how be it no Church communion that is no communion in or with the saints gathered into the faith and order of the Gospel so in gooing vnto vnlawfull Assemblies if a man be no member his communion there is not with the people in that state but in the humane inventions Beza Annoâ—â— in 1. Cor. 10. 1 pag. 137. that is the Idol Church wil-worship false ministerie and other such abominations And this common reason sheweth for he that is not a member of a Corporation may yet communicate in the administrations thereof howbeit true it is in or with the body he doth it not We need not therfore shut our doores against any person for there followes no daunger by their comming vnto vs â—for howsoeuer as I said they haue communion yet not with vs but rather in the thinges practised with vs. Now what can the Pistler hence conclude only thus vnlesse he be Graculus inter musas ‡ If I may doe a lawfull thinge then I may doe an vnlawfull thinge Jf a foreiner may pertake in the ciuil iustice of true magistrates then he may so doe in the sinfull administrations of Rebels and Traitors I wrong him not for his reasoning and this â— is all one in substance If it be lawfull to communicate in a true Church Omnia idem puluiâ— Lucian with Christs ministerie and worship then a man may lawfully communicate in a false Church with Antichrists ministerie and worship I could say more but I am loth to discouer his nakednes too farre But no maruaile when men leaue the way of truth if foolish and false thinges doe follow 2. But admit this hearing were not against any article of our Churches what is the note that the Reader must then obserue Surelie vnlesse the Epistoler would be noted for nonsence we must needs conceiue that he holds as the Papists f Bellarmâ—de c Rom. poâ—â— l. 4. 1. 4. Rhemist n Luk. 18. sect 4 doe to wit that the Church cannot erre and therefore we must beleeue as the Church beleeues But are you in good earnest wel we will so take it till we are better informed In the meane time take you notise what the Lord saith g Esa 8 20 To the Law and to the Testimony h Serm deâ—em 〈◊〉 if they speake not according to this word it is because there is no light in them Take notise also what Augustine k Iust mart cont tryphâ— sayth we ought to beleeue a Church but not in a Church because the Church is not God but the house of God To the like purpose others Neither Pastor Councell i B Bilson par 2. p. 266 or Angel ought in point of faith to be receiued I say not against but without or besides the scriptures These k are only safe l Hilar in psa 86. to be credited for humaine praâ—pts they want weight m Lactan l 3. c 17. they bind not n Id cont Faist l. 23. ego soli scripturae fido said Theodoret o Zâ—nch de Tripl Epis p 103. J giue trust to the scripture alone And some papists in words say no lesse as Thomas of Aquine p l 9 art vlt. Abbas q Deelect cap significasti pan◠〈…〉 Gerson r In locchi Pâ—pper Mechâ—inienâ— Picus Mirandula s Quaest â—an Pa suâ— con Occam t Dial. l. â— p. 1. c.
make a true Church That the Archbishops and Bishops of England deriue their lineal successions and Episcopal dignitie from St. Peters Chaire and the verie Sea of Rome and that we should not acknowleidge them for Bishops in case they either did not or could not doe soe That the Pope of Rome or papacy is not the Antichrist nor Antichrist yet come or reuealed That Crucifixes and Images in Churches are lawfull and necessarie comlie ornaments That Christ is really present vpon earth on the high Altar and Communion table That Communion tables are Altars Ministers of the Gospel Priects serving at the Altar the Sacrament of the Lords supper the Sacrament of the Altar and may yea ought so to be phrased That men ought to bow to Altars Communion-tables and to place rayle them in Altar-wise at the east end of the Church and come up to them and receiue when there is a Sacrament and that Ministers must read their second seruise at them when there is none That auricular confession to a Preist and absolution are very fitting and necessarie That the Lords day is no Sabbath That it is lewish to call it or keepe it as a Sabbath That it is not of divine but humaine institution not with in the morality of the 4. commaundement That two howres only of it is to be sanctified not the whole day That Morises dauncing sports and pastimes yea labours of mens calling not speciallie prohibited by 〈◊〉 â—â—maine lawes even out of cases of necessitie are lawfull on it That men may fall totally finally from Grace That they haue freewill and may exactly fulfill the Law of God if they please themselves That men are justified by workes yea by charitie and not by faith alone That men are elected from the foresight of faith and workes and reprobated only out of the foresight of their sinnes That there is a vniversall grace given to all men whereby they may be saued if they will That Christ died alike for all men whatsoeuer That preaching is an extraordinary thing * VVelfare the Bishops vvho are true to their ground for it is an extraordinary thing vvith them to proach only for extraordinary times and belonging to none but extraordinary men That one Sermon in a month is enough and better then two a day That reading is properly preaching That Archbishops Bishops Episcopall jurisdiction and degree aboue other Ministers is jure divino That the Ministers know more then the Lay-people the Bishops more then the Ministers the Archbishops more then the Bishops And therefore what ever the Ministers shall teach or prescribe the people what ever the Bishops the Ministers people what ever the Archbishops the Bishops Mininisters people too are bound to beleeve obey without further question or dispute That the Popes Lawes Decrees Canon Lawes are still in force our Church ought to be governed by them our Ecclesiasticall Courts proceed lecally according to them That Bishops have power to make publish Articles Canons Injunctions Oathes Rites Ceremonies in their owne names rights and to enforce both Ministers people to obey them That they may silence suspend excommunicate yea deprive imprison Ministers at their at their pleasure without any legall cause That Bishops are not bound to preach so much or so oft as other men though they have greater wages and so should doe more worke That they may Lawfully and laudablie neglect their spirituall functions to mannage temporall Offices and affaires exercise both Swords at once and rule both Church and State together Now that the Reader may be sure what I here set downe is true let him peruse a Booke entituled the Quench-Coale and there he shall finde all these Assertions affirmed in an Epistle written unto the King 5. Whereas he saith in a Church that is false in respect of outward Order there may be taught many sound and seasonable truths This I grant for Iesuites and other Heretickes deliver oft-times many true Doctrines And what of this may we therefore Lawfully heare them In no cause For as one a Vsus est Nabuchodonosor Musicis InstrumeÌ„tis in erectione statuae ut homines ad ejus honorem venerationem excitaret Pintus Comment in Dan. cap. 3. pag. 195. saith of the Musicall Instruments which Nabuchadnezzar had in the plaine of Dura they were brought thither that men thereby might be the sooner drawne to honour and worship the goulden Image So truly are the Truths taught in false Churches a bewitching Musick to lead people unto them and to cause them to fall downe before the Idols of the place set up by Worldly Princes against the expresse Commaundement of Iesus Christ Againe howsover the Priests he pleads for Preach sometime sound truths notwithstanding otherwhile they speake vaine and foolish things Mr. Fox b Acts Monum pag. 1027 reports of one Hostius who being in Gaunt was tould that a certaine Fryer there used to preach good and sound Doctrine But when he came to his Church he heard him justifie Transubstantion and nothing else And the like comes many times to passe that men reputed rare Preachers make whole Sermons in defence of grosse Idolatry and speake most reproachfully against the way and worship of God This being so I would know of the Pist if a man be present when such blasphemous Positions are delivered whether he offend If he say No then it followes that a man may heare any one and any where and his distinction between hearing this Priest and not that is nihil adversum impertinent and idle If he say Yes then it must follow from his owne grant that no falâ—e Minister is to be heard unlesse a man know before hand that he will not speake perverse things SECTION 4. THat the Church here pleaded for is Antichristian and false the Epist doth acknowledge Yet saith he that worshipping of God which consisteth in hearing his Word is warrantable for us to doe there And so much he undertakes to prove by this Argument That Preaching which ordinarily begits men to the faith of Christ may lawfully be heard But the Preaching of many Ministers in the Church of England hath and doth ordinarily beget men to the faith of Christ Therefore the Preaching of many Ministers in England may lawfully be heard The first part of this sillogisme is proved out of Rom. 10. Where the Apostle telling what is the ordinary way God used to beget men to the faith of Christ telles us it comes by hearing of the word of God preached if faith comes by hearing the Word of God preached to wit if that be the outward meanes then there is no question but that a man may heare such preaching and any man may blush for shame that shall deny this So that the major part of the Argument is cleare And for the Minor parte they can not deny it no more then a man at noon day can deny the sunne to shine for if
c. I see nothing in it wherefore he should desire the reader to take knowledge of it For as for riches credit of the World and outward peace here instanced as they are good things in themselves so they may be desired and in a right way and course Lawfully sought after For the other namelie Hearing of the Word obedience to the Magistrate c. In these things too we must keepe our selves within the limits and bounds which God hath set us For his phrase of streaning and gooing as neere the Winde as may be J hope he meant no streaning of a good conscience If he did not then his counsell is of no use at all except it could be proued that the Lord requires his people to heare in the way and manner hee pleads for a worke ab Asino lanam not possibly to be done As there are some scrupulous in things amisse touching outward Ordinances and yet faultie otherwayes So I beleeve there are many not scrupulous in things amisse touching outward ordinances and yet in their course of life base and scandalous enought But what of this must not Gods House and Ordinances be deare to our soules because some mens conversation is not according to their profession God forbid For in the holiest Society upon Earth it is possible that there should be wicked persons When there was but 4 in the World one was a Kaan when 8. onely in the Arke one was a Cham Among the 12. one a Iudas The purest Wheate hath some chaffe with it The fairest garden some weeds in it Therefore let no man forbeare to practice any knowne truth for other mens lewd lives onely let them be carefull to doe well themselves Mourne for such as doe otherwise and seeke by all due and lawfull meanes their Amendment And this is the burden and no other which the Lord layes upon them The last sort he divides into 5 rankes at which he either girds or right-out chargeth with Hypocrisie partialitie pride ignorance mallace and the like It is said of Tamberlane * Richard Knowles in the life of Baiazee that he raised warre against Baiazet the fourth King of the Turkes because he refused to receive certaine strange Garments which he sent unto him I beleeve had these men embraced the Treatisers opinion in this point of Hearing they should not have heard him speake so bitterly against them But to the particulars Some are carried with so excessive admiration of some former guides in their course Treat as they thinke is halfe Heresy to call into question any of their determinations or practises Answ Howsoever we must live by our owne faith notwithstanding we are not lightly to esteeme of the determinations and practises of our guides specially when we know they are no reeds but men stable and unchangeable in the truth He is a foolish traviler that will leave the way which he hath long kept unlesse he be sure he is out There is as Polanus h CoÌ„ment in Ezech. cap. 20. pag. 487. saith a laudable imitation of Elders That is so farre to follow them as they are followers of Christ 2. J know none more faulty this way then such as have learned of him to heare unlawfull Ministers For were not these men superstitiously addicted to his new devise they would beware how to reject as they doe the unanimous judgement and practice of all Learned Men and true Churches and follow the blinde trodd of his single opinion Such as lay downe rules to finde out the truth by write thus What the Fathers i Quid-quid omnes pariter uno codemque consensu c. Vincent Lirenens cont prophanos haeret c. 4. all with one consent have held and written is a necessary token to know the truth by Againe k D. Feild of the church l. 3. c. 43 p. 175 Whatsoever hath beene holden at all times and in all places by all Christians that hath not beene noted for novelty singularity and division is to be received as the undoubted truth of God If these Assertions be true the Treatisers then is untrue For not onely are all old Writers against it but the most Learned of later times Yea and let it be minded all Sects and sorts of people professing Christianitie abhorre it J except onely Familists For they and he â—â—dem in ludâ— docti are for the pleading and practice here much alike Some againe are much addicted to themselves as the former to others Treat Conceiving in effect though they will not professe it the same of their Heads which the Papists doe of their Head the Pope that they cannot erre or be deceived And this specially in such matters us for which they have suffered trouble and affliction formerly Answ 1. Wee are all more ready to blame faults in others then to see our owne and amend them Had not the Treatiser thought to well of himselfe I doubt whether he would so lightly have singled himselfe out and become as it were every mans opposite Humble minds are affraid to meddle with novelties but such as seeke humane praise imagine they cannot enought be observed unlesse out of the dreggs of Sophistry they raise some strange quiddities whereby to crosse truths generally received 2. That any man should love and like a thing because it leads to persecution That J cannot thinke But this J thinke There are some which doe professe practice many things and namelie this of Hearing on no better ground or reason but hereby to keep themselves out of troubles There is also a third sort who bend their force rather to the weakning of other men in their courses Treat then to the building up of themselves in their owne halfe imagining that they draw neere enought to God if they can withdraw enought from other men Answ I cannot devise for what end the Treat * Aliquid latet quod non patet should seeke thus to discover other mens nakednes except it be he thought that the more vile and contemptible he made his Opposites appeare in the Readers eye the easier he would be won to embrace this his opinion of Hearing Antichristian Ministers a prittie trick Much like that Lesson of the Cannon Lavv Si non caste tamen cause But such shifts profit not for a godly minde will search and looke into the cause it selfe and not on the persons either for or against it To oppose a bad course is meet and lawfull and should we be silent when we are called to testifie against it we should make our selves hereby open transgressours Touching the building up of our selves This as Iude †Ver. 20. teacheth must be in our most holy faith He that rayseth up a House with rotten stuffe * What is there else in Babilon will loose his cost and labour by it I know not what withdrawing he meanes from other men if he intend a withdravving from the Hearing of false Ministers then I answer they doe
well that doe it For if the Temple made with hands defiled through idolatrie was odious unto God how much more will he loth our Spirituall Temples not made with hands if we suffer them to be polluted with filthy superstition But so absolutely we shall doe if we doe the thing which the Treat here contends for A good man saith Ambrose m Lib 5. Epist 30. will be earnest and Zealous against idolatry Another saith n Bradshavv on 2 Thes 2 p. 130. The better a man is the more carefull will he be to withdraw himselfe from it These witnesses are true Fourthly there are some to be found so sowred with modines and discontentment Treat as they become unsociable If they see nothing lamentable they are ready to lament If they reade any Bookes they are onely invectives specially against publicke Saâ—es and Governours Ansvv 1. As to be unsociable is inhumaine and brutish so to be carelesse with whome we joyne in communion is sinfull and vicious A traviler were better goe alone then have one in his company that should rob him and cut his throat 2. This is not an age which wants cause of just lamentation considering not onely the evils without but what perverse things are brought into the Churches of God whereby poore people are dayly deceived 3. That we should looke into publicke States and Governours there is reason for it and specially if the same be Ecclesiasticall for else how can we walke as men of knowledge and hold fast onely that which is good Lastly Treat some thinke to cover their owne both grosser and more proper and personall corruptions under a furious march not onely against the faylings but the persons also failing of infirmity in matter of Church-order and Ordinances Ansvv I suppose by Church-ordinances and Order he meanes the Ministerie Worship and Government under Antichrist Now that some of ignorance submit to these things there is nothing more certaine notwithstanding this gives not allowance to others others knowing better to doe so too If there failing be of infirmity there is the more hope of their reformation I meane when they shall heare the truth taught and see the Teachers walke closely in it In conclusion the Treat pleas the Rhetorician and makes a shew as if he could say more but he will spare his opposites Ansvv As for his minsing figure of extenuation to let much passe I like it not For he doth here no otherwise then if a Theese when he hath stript a man out of all that he hath would faine yet be counted mercifull in that he doth not murder him or bind him as some others have done Let any indifferent man read his writing and he will say the Treat hath not spared his opposites but short at them arrowes of bitter words and made them as odious and vile as a man can doe But blessed is he that is not offended at the truth for such things SECT 2. THE Objections undertaken to be answered by the Treatiser are as he layes them downe of two sorts Some of them are framed upon supposition that the Ministers in that Church are in themselves Lawfull and of God But yet not to be heard by reason of the abuses evils to be found in their administrations Others with-draw herein and those the more upon the contrarie supposition to wit that the very order and constitution of that Church and Ministery is papall and unlawfull Ansvv For the first I have nothing to say to it It beeing a point beside our present dispute Againe for my part I am of his minde in the thing that is to use his owne expression Supposing a Church and the Ministerie thereof essentially lawfull it cannot but be lawfull for the members of other Churches in generall union and association with it to communicate therewith in things lawfull and lawfully done seeing the end of union is communion God hath in vaine united persons and states together But he who would have us receave the weake in faith whom God hath receaved would not have us refuse the fallowship of Churches in that which is good for any weaknes in them of one sort or other And this we have so plainly and plentifully commended unto us both by the Prophets yea by Christ himselfe in the Iewish Church and Apostles and Apostolicall men in the first Christian Churches In which many errours and evils of all kindes were more then manifest and the same ofttimes both so farre spread and deeply rooted as the reforming of them was rather to be wished then hoped for as that no place is left for doubting in that case by any who desire to follow their holy steps in faith towards God and charitie towards men and effectuall desire of their owne edification What he here writes is surely true for the Scriptures approve not of rending away from true Churches for any corruption I use the word any because so long as we acknowledge the Church to be true whatsoever her sinnes are a separation from all communion with it is utterly unlawfull Our godly Predicessours had in them the zeale of God and love of his truth * Two things I would know of these meÌ„ 1. Whether they thinke not that the primitive Christians were as zealous and sincere as themselves 2. Whether they thinke not that the Churches from vvhome they separate have as fevv if not fevver corruptions then such Churches had in vvhich the Apostles and other godly people dayly communicated But how shewed they it Not by forsaking their Brethren for offences but in witnessing against them and seeking their reformation But now ah that I could not say it some men know not how their zeale like Iehues may be seene of men unlesse they make publick Schismes in Churches and this many times not for any sinne that they can justly prove the Church to be in but upon discontentment and because they cannot have their way and will But of this no more now For I purpose if God spare my life to set forth a Treatise touching this very point The Treatiser in pag. 23 Treat would have us consider distinctly of Religious actions according to the severall Rankes in which they may rightly orderly be sett And how we should conceive of them a little after he tels us thus Some such actions are Religious only as they are performed by Religious persons And of this sort is Hearing and so Reading of Gods Word The Scriptures teach and all confesse that Hearing of the Word of God goes before Faith for Faith comes by Hearing as by an outward meanes Hearing then beeing before Faith and Faith before all other acts of Religion inward or outward it must needs follow that Hearing is not simply or of it selfe a worke of Religion and so not of Religious Communion Answ That the Reader may the better perceive how greatly the Treat was deceived in this matter of Hearing as to thinke it not to be of Religious Communion
him And thus doe out best Expositers vnderstand the place Caluine Pareus Piscator Aretius Musculus It is further to be noted where Christ sayh he that receiveth you receiveth me c. His meaning is that such as hearken to and obey the doctrines of his Ministers therein doe acknowledge his authority power kingly office over his Church to appoynt her lawes I meane in a worke of their â—ffice offices ordinances c. and also the fathers donation or the delivering up of the same into his sonnes hand To apply this As they who hearken vnto Christs ministers doe therein approue of his lawfull power over his Church of the fathers guift this way to him soe contrariwise such as hearken * to Antichrists Ministers doe therein approue of Antichrists vnlawfull power over the false Church and the devils ‡ Satan is the author of false ministries in the apostasie of the man of sin donation or his putting of that power into his eldest sons hands If any say we intend not so I answere Res ipsa aliud ostendit the actioÌ„ which they do is so quid verba audiam cum factae videam And here that saying of a learned a man is fulfulled There are some which deny that they worship Idolls T. C. Repl 1. p. 88. 204. when in the meane time their owne doings chargeth them with it Now there are too many in those daies grosly guilty this way His next words are Lavat in Iosh 22. Hom. 61. Treat The Minissters in the Parishes haue not the doctrines of the Gospel from the Bishops as they haue their offices but from God in his word Answ It was a law b Eugin Boron Iure consult l. 1. p. 120. among the Romanes that whosoever passed not into their Citty at the gates but attempted to break throw the walls or to clyme over them should be put to death The Treat in pressing the hearing of the truths of the Gospel would perswade us so we do receiue them it is no matter whether it be by order or disorder whether from the Ministers of Christ or Antichrist Whether in a true Church or in a false But this counsell we cannot take because to our knowledge ther is a divine statute in force against it therefore as we must c T. C. Repl. 1. p 155. care for the truth so must we care of whom we haue it he giues this reason d Ibid. p. 83. As God hath ordained that the truth should be preached so also hath he ordained in what order and by whom it should be preached We may not therefore adventure e Penry Exhort to the govern of Wales pag. 46. to go vnto him for those things which he hath no commission to deliver Suppose Carah or some other in that Conspirasy should haue said thus Come to us yee men of Israell and hearken to beleeve and Obey the truths taught in our Tents If you object that our Calling is anti-Mosaicall and false we answer this cannot be any barre or let in the thing seeing the doctrines we teach are from God in his law J cannot see according to the Treat arguing how in such a case they could haue staid without for if we may go into the Sinagogues of Antichrist so the Doctrines of the Gospel be there preached I would know then of our Opposites why an Israelite vpon the same ground viz. to heare the Doctrines of the law might not haue gon with them rebels into their Tents I beleeve if we come to open termes these will be found to be par pari things alike and the one as lawfull as the other both starke naught But to come more neerer to the point the thing which the Treat harpes most vpon is that they teach the truth And our opposites vse this as their speciall and main position viz. Where the truth is taught there they may lawfully heare To discover their follow herein J pray let it be minded what was said before As the hearing in question is a religious action so to haue it lawfull and good the circumstances perteyning to it must necessarily be observed of which circumstances the truth taught is only one particular It is a received maxime both in divinity and Philosophie that circumstances make actions formally good or bad so write Junius f De pol. Aquinas g 1a 2 a. q. 8. Art 3 Camerius h Praelect Tom. 2. p. 49. and Burgesse i of the lawfullnes of kneeling C. 1. confesseth they are intrinsecall and essentiall to actions and especially making up there nature Fed Morellus vpon these words of Seneca k Scho. 2. Lib. refert quid cui quando quare saith that without these circumstances of things persons time place c. facti ratio non constat Friar Ambrosius Caturinus l Counc l. 2 p. 224. following the doctrine of Thomas meanteyneth in the covnsell of Trent that to do a-good worke the concurrance of all circumstances is necessary What these circuÌ„stances or parts are is shewd in that old vers Quis quid vbi quibus auxilijs cur quomodo quando And to apply them to our point howsoever it be granted that their teaching may be without vitium rei yet in it there is vitium perfoÌ„ae loci ordinis relationis c as the. Trâ— * in aletter to D. Ames published in Brownists schis phraseth it else wher 1. The Person designed is not lawfully called now a false Office and a true worship are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they are no way compatible 2. As it respects the place that is the Idoll-Churchstate so it is to worship God there where he hath forbidden men to worship him 3. For the instruments and meanes in this men make themselues beholding to Antichrist for his order constitution manner and way to serue God in and by Now fye for shame that any should be so base as to scrape acquentance with that Babylonian whore who is the greatest enimy that the Lord hath vpon the earth Iâ— is a most certaine â—igne saith one m Estque merae proditionis certissimum indicium si quis aliqueÌ„ ex suis videat concilia claÌ„ cum hoste captantem aut in eius aurem insuâ—ure anteÌ„ of a very traitour when a man shall see one of his owne take secret counsell with his enimy whisper him in the eare Touching the other circumstances viz. why how when these all are also here wanting as I could instance in sundry particulars if need were But to winde vp all bring all the former into some fewer heads the goodnesse or badnesse of divine worship is to be considered either in actu signato and quo ad specium or in actu exercito and quo ad individium Divine worship is said to be speciated by its object and individuated by its circumstances when divine worship is good or evill in respect of the object of it we say it is
answer in a faire honest way well they may satisfie men of the same humours But with men fearing God they shall finde no acceptance 3. I exspect plaine dealing Truth is like the glassie sea before the throne which is bright cleare not a clouded bodie or covered with the vailes of mens fond fantisies dreames Let such Childish toyes be kept for Children I require the voyce of the Shepheard read it me out of the Prophets shew it me out of the Psalmes read it out of the Law or Gospell For without this mens judgments have no credit * Ego vocem pastoris requiro lege haec mihi de Prophetis lege de psalmo recita de lege recita de Evangelio recita de Apostolo August de Pastorib cap. 14. Before I end my speach I thinke good to mention you my Brethren with whom I am in speciall communion over vvhom the Holy Ghost hath made me overseer This answer will serve to cleare us from such untrue reports as some malitiously have raysed up as if we were declined from our ancient profession Now what we hold concerning the fallacies fantasies newly broached I desire all the Churches of God here to take knowledge off for our clearing justification I thought when J first began with this Treatise in ending of it to have ended with publick controversies and so have followed a more quiet kind of studie But seeing what the truth suffers in regard of adversaries to it on both sides the love of God constraineth me not to be silent but according to that measure which the Lord hath dealt unto me as my smal abilities are to coÌ„tend for the faith against dexteriores sinesteriores adversaries on both hands to deliver it from the evill report which both have sought to bring upon it And as I have made way now for Gods people to enter into the sweet order of the Gospell covenant oâ— the Lord So J purpose very speedily to publish something for their stay and preservation therein You know my Brethren for the divisions of Reuben are great thoughts of heart Lord how are we spoken of in Gath Askalon for the rents Schismes amongst us In truth I doe not know for what our profession is beholding unto in respect of some men but only to be dispised reproached for their idle giddle courses * Of certaine turbulent spirits it is said Illis quieta movere magna merces videbatur Salust They thought the very disturbaÌ„ce of things quietly established an hyre sufficiently to set them on worke But that the truth of God may no longer suffer but the sinne shame lie where it ought I will by the good hand of God assisting me cleare our Religion as that it leads not to Schismes Church-breakings but such things are rootes of bitternes cursed taires planted sowed by the Envious man in the unsanctified hearts of ungodly people Besides I purpose to shew from the Word of God why men ought to keep themselves with true Churches Howbeit in their opinions very corrupt how Againe how farre particular men have libertie to deale with a Church when they are to rest how a why Moreover how farre a Church-Covenant binds every member of the body to that bodie wherefore there must not be divisions neither from nor in the bodie Againe in case there be a division in Church I wil shew by what signes tokens the Church may be known from the Schismaticks In a word I will shew how farre the Office of the Eldership extendeth in matter of Government and how farre obedience is due unto them of the people These things many more of the like nature you shall shortly see them handled For J purpose to publish a large Treatise of Ecclesiasticall Politie even the whole externall regiment of the Church of God And thus commending you to God J take my leave and will during life alwayes rest Amsterdam Moneth 1. day 28. 1639. Yours in what he can to doe you service I. C. A STAY AGAINST STRAYING OR A Reply to a Treatise published in the defence of hearing Antichristian Ministers SECTION I. An ansvver to the nameles Epistoler HOwsoever the publisher of the Treatise hath thought it fit to conceale his name * it is question vvhetheâ— he vvere not a shamed to put his name to it a. pro 27. 14. yet he hath prefixed to it a large preface wherein with a Loud voyce a he blesseth the authour his friend and the worke it selfe and seekes by manie unchristiaÌ„ speaches to disgrace some men what he can inregard they Zealouslie opposed his new minion Idol Three reasons he giues why after 9. yeares concealement he hath now Published the booke first the large abilities of the author a boue many others c. Answ 1. this ground is sandy and he speakes * Arâ—â—◠〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 besides the matter For howsoeuer we confesse that the Author was a godlie learned man notwith standing it followes not that whatsoeuer he said it was therfore true necessarilie to be published Without offence that fitlie may be applyed to him which a learned writer writes of Chrisostome a Calâ—ehil Treatise of the Crosse pag. 26. he was not without his fault his goulden mouth wherin he passed others had otherwhile leaden wordes which yeelded to errour abuse of the time 2. Had the Pistler respected as he should the authors large abilities he would not haue made that booke so commoÌ„ as he hath done to the mans great dishonour When one Pammachius b Ieroms 〈◊〉 Epist ad pamm a Learned Man vnderstood that Hierome had writen some thinges amisse against Iovinian he sought to suppresse all the Copies to haue them concealed till the faults therein were corrected If the Publisher c Let such as had a hand this vvay thinke of Christs vvordeâ— in mat 18. 7. vvoâ— to them by vvhome offences come or others had so don with that first copie which they found in his studie they had don wel manifested good affection to the author but in that they caused so vile a thing to be spread abroad they did ill were his enemies And here I thinke of that sentence in Eccles 10. 1. dead flies cause the oyâ—â—â—eÌ„t of the Apothecary to send foorth a stinking sauour so doth a little folly him that is in reputation for wisedome and honour I acknowledge to Gods glory and the Treatisers due Prayse that there are in print of his sundry fruitfull treatises d Specially his Iustification of separation a booke so sufficientlie penned as no Adversary hetherto durst reply but certanelie this published since his death is like the wild gourd in the Pottage a cheife cause that the former are the lesse accepted with the godlie It is true therfore as Ferus e ferus Annot. in Ecclesic 10. v. 1. fol. 95. 2â— Chro 19. 12. 1. King â—
man should blush at it specyallie beeing reputed or at least would be one of large Charitie e tantane animis calestibus â—rae Aneid l. 1. and a great reprouer of others for rash censuringe Now knowes he not what an odious thinge it is to condemne that thinge in another wherein he himselfe in the meane time is a transgressor this not onlie lies vnder the iust reproofe of the scriptures f Mat 7. 3 4. Rom 1. 21. But also condemned by heathens It is note of follie saith Tully g est enim proprium stulritiâ—â— alegâ—ruâ— vitiae cernere oblivissi suorum Tul de offiâ— l. 3. to see another mans faults forgett oure owne foe in the Poet. Turpe est doctori cum culpa redarguit ipsum But it is no new thinge for such as are earnestlie zealous for the churches reformation that all thinges may be there according to the divine patterne to be tongue-bitten by innovators corruptors of religion for so were the Prophets vsed h â— King 18. 18 Eze 4. 15. Ame 7. 10. so was Christ i Luk. 23. 25. Ieh 19. 12. k Act 19. 12. Act. 17. 6. Act. 24. 6. his Apostles serued by the Iewes So in ages after Constantine l Sâ—zomen l. 1. c. 8. was accused as a pervertor of Gods order because he furthered and followed christianity Other goodmen wanted not thier crosse this way but were alwayes reuiled with most words of reproach deemed of their adversaries the vilest persons of the earth When the Scythians as Justine m Just l. 2. reports saw they could not overcome their enemies with weapons they laid them aside tooke vp whips Men in errour doe so finding in scriptures nothinge for them they make whips with their tongues that is slaunder allwayes their opposites with heresie schisme pride obstinacy disloyalty sedition et quid non hoping to get that by rayling of which they haue no 〈◊〉 to get by reasoning a Such a one he seemes to be that hath sett forth the Nevv English Canaon the prophane Ismael seekes to disgrace the truth by scoffing at it As he loued cursing so let it come unto him as hedelighted not in blessing so let it be farre from him psa 109 17. 3. But to speake a litle of the accusation it selfe How soeueuer I will not meddle with their divisioÌ„ neither iustifie his opposites in the manÌ„er of their departure not withstanding al though he wipe his mouth would make others cheife authors of the breach yet the truth is he such which went ordinarilie unto false churches with such as iustified and abetted so vile a practice were principallie the instruments of that great scandall It is a receiued Tenent amongst the learned Such are the causers of contention that bringe new doctrines into the Churches of God b Commen in Rom. 16. 17. 18. ot 1 Cor. 1. p. 7. Pareus describes the authors of dissentions to be men that adulterate pure doctrine by humane inventions violate the discipline of the Church seeke by sugred words counterfeit zeale to pervert others To the same effect writes Gaulter c Comment in Rom 16. 17. Mornaeus d lib de Eceles l. 2. Martyr e de Calib et vot cont Smit Morton f Parker g On the Crossed pa. 2. c. 9. sect 3 p. 116 yea some Papists too as Cassander h De Rora Eceles art 7. others To apply this seeing the Publisher and others with him haue committed apparent idolatry meantained it in the Church sought thereby to pervert the right wayes of the Lord and to draw the sincere into errour sinne it must follow necessarilie that the strife contention which hath fallen out vpon it either among brethren of their owne congregation or else where came cheiflie by their occation meanes For the exclamation therefore which he and others take vp against the godlie i Apol. l. 2. for their contentions I mind it truly as a great prophanes in them We would count him a most vile person that would doe whatsoeuer he could to make another angry and when he saw him so would reproach him for it blaze it abroad speake of it behind his back to his great disgrace It were happy for some if they had neuer abused Gods people this way by seeking as it were to anger them in hearing vnlawfull ministers marying their wiues by Popish licenses thorow justifying halters neuters comunicating spiritually with Antichristians other such muddy stuffe found the valy afterwards perceuing them to be stirred hereat cry out with a full mouth oh what a contentious people are they oh how scandalous better for aman to walke alone then with such a compaine And this shal be published in Gath Askelon that the enemies of the Lord may rejoyse triumph * A seruâ—â—â— that runns avvaye 〈…〉 of his maister But good it were that these make bates did consider of that great day in which Christ shall appeare in the brightnes of his father to auenge the quarle of his least commaundement when God ryseth a Ioh 31. 14. vp whâ—◠〈◊〉 they answere him what will they say when he shall not only clâ—â—ge them with idolatrie covenant-breaking But also to be the cause ground of the diuisions schismes in his churches by meanes whereof his name was blasphemed the soules of the righteous greeued the truth slaundered the weake scandalized the wicked hardened in euil It is sure as some doe obserue b Pareus in Rom 14. ver 13. pag. 469. that a more greeuious punishment is reserued for them which cause others to offend then for they which doe such things themselves Thus the serpent was punished more then Eue she more then Adam so lezebel felt heauier deeper judgment then Ahab To sinne hath not so much perdition in it as to induce others to sinne so Chrisostome c Peccare non tantum in se per litionis habet quantum quod reliqia ad peccandum inducuntur hom 25 in Epist ad Rom. in mor. ad locum Who is wise that he may vnderstand these things prudent that he may take knowledge of them ffor the wayes of Jehouah are righteous the iust shall walke in them but the d VVhen at the day of Iudgment it soâ—lbe laid to their charge that they haue giuen scandal they vvill vvish rather to haue been drovvned Parre on Rom chap. 14. v. 13. p. 173. rebels shall fall in them SECTION 2. THus Reader thou hast seen the reasons why the Treatise was published Now in the next place the Epistoler intreats thee to take notise of two things 1. That this practice of hearing vnlawfull ministers Is not against any article of sayth which is by the Church professed whereof the author of this treatise was pastor Answer 1. Nay stay there that is not so for in Article 31. of our profession consented
28. P. Piâ—s the second u Abbaâ— Vespersâ—nâ—is p. 443. and Others In conclusion then seeing the hearing of vnlawfull Ministers is flat against scripture articles as we haâ—e partly manifested and God willing more will doe we â— must 〈◊〉 as Ierome x in Mat. 23 speakes it though it should in the meane time be iustified and practised by many Churches and people The second thing which he desires may be noted is that this hearing was not in the iudgement of the Church esteemed as a thinge that might not be borne with all Answ 1 The doctrine of the Nicolaitans which was a Trenan l. 1 27. Epiphanc 1. Tom. 1. Eâ—â—â—â— 3. 29. that adulterie and fornication were no sinnes and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their idol temples was not in the iudgment of the Churches at Pergamos and Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall was the same therfore good indeed such a conclusion we must either here gather from his wordes or conclude he knew not well what he wrote 2. To the iudgement of that Church when they wrote to London I may oppose their former and better iudgment ffor with reverence to the Phrase from the beginning this was not soe ffor in their constitution and many yeares after they held * Remember therfore from vvhâ—nce thou art fallen and repent and doe the first vvorkes Reu. 2. 5. hearing of vnlawfull Ministers a very vnlawful practise And so much appeares in sundry passages Published to the world by the Pastor himselfe And for the Readers better satisfaction I thinke it not amisse to sert downe their Owne words Those b Munumission to a manuduction pag. 5. who partake in the worke of Preaching of one sent by the Bp DOE PARTAKE IN WHAT LYETH JN THEM IN THE AVTHORITY OF THE SENDER Againe The authorite of Ministers in their Parishionall Churches c Page 4. may not be by Gods people partaken with no not in actions otherwise Lawfull vnder the paines of Babilons Plagues Againe in another booke d Religious Communion pag. 20. thus they write Let all them that feare God consider that when they come to worship in the Parish Assemblyes they joyne themselues where God hath not joyned them and doe acknowledge that societie for the Church of God and communion of saints which he hath not sanctifyed for that purpose and in saying ourfather with them they acknowledge them for the children of God who in the perswation of their consciences are of their father the divel And in the same booke a little after e pag. 32. Their very administrations by vnlawfull calling are the sinnes and so to PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR ADMINISTRATIONS IS TO PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR SINNES contrary to Timot. 5. 22. Reu. 14. 4. In their answere to Maister Barnerds booke thus they write largesie of this point f Justification of Separat pag. 78. 79. 80. â—e also page 17. 162. 276. 433. Some of which is as followeth But the thing which most grieves Mr. B and at which he hath greatest indignation Pap. 62. is that we will not heare his sermons though he preach nothing but the true word of God And so he desires to heare of vs where the hearing of the true word of God onely preached is sinn and forbidden by Christ or the Prophets or Apostles For answer hereof I would know first whether Mr. B. speaking here and in many other places of the true Word of God do means that God hath a true word and a false word or rather bewray not an accusing conscience that they in England have not the true word truely taught that is in a true office of Ministery Now for the demaund referring the reader for more full satisfaction to that which hath bene published at large by others I do answer that as it was vnlawfull to * Nâ—mb 16. 2. Câ— 26. 1 King 12. communicate with Corah or with vzziah though they offered true sacrifices so IS IT VNLAWFVL TO COMMVNICATE WITH ADEVISED MINSTERY WHAT TRVTH SOEVER IS TAVGHT IN IT Secondly the Lord hath promised no blessing to his word but in his owe ordinance though by his superaboundand mercy he oft tymes vouchsafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promise Thirdly * no man may partake in other mens sinns â—â—m 5. 12. but euery Ministery eyther devised or vsurped is the sinn of him which exerciseth it Rev. 18. 4. And as no good subject would assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civil Justice to the Kings subjects no not though he administred the same never so equally and indifferrently except the same person had commission from the King so to do so neyther ought the subjects of the kingdome of Christ to partake with any person whomsoever in the dispensation of any spirituall thing though in it self never so holy withot sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and sovereigne King of his Church Christ Iesus And where Mr. B. speaks of hearing the true word of God only preached he intimates therin that if we would heare him preach it would satisfy him well and so teacheth vs with himselfe and others to make a schisme in the Church in vsing one ordinance and not an other It is all one whether a man communicate with the minister in his pulpit or with the Chauncelor in his consistory both of them minister by the same power of the Bishop The Chauncelor may iudge justly who knowes whither or no the Minister will teach truely And if he doe not but speak the vision of his owne heart what remedy hath the Church or what can they that hear him do May they rebuke him openly according to his sin and so bring him to repentance or must they not beare his errors yea his heresyes also during the pleasure of the Bishops even their Lord his And would you Mr. B. be content your people should heare a masse-Priest or Jesuite though he professed as loud as you do that he would teach the true word of God And think not scorne of the match for you haue the selfe same office with a masse Preist though refyned If he be ordayned by a Bishop though it be the Bishop of Rome he may minister in any Church of England by vertue of that ordination Andbesides masse-Preists preach some and those the mayne truthes and the Ministers in England neither do nor dare preach all no nor some which it may be the others do Is it not better then for the servants of the L. Iesus to exercise and aedify themselves according to the model of grace receaved though in weaker measure then to be so simple as to come to your feasts though you cry never so loud vnto them thinking that because your stoln waters are sweet and your hidden bread pleasant that they have no power to passe by but must needs become your guests And here
or can stand with his will revealed in his Word And so much Zanchy a Lib. 1. de vit ext cult oppos col 504. 505. proves by sundry instances In this regard also hearing false Ministers is supersticious because that thing is honoured and embraced which we finde not in the Scripture to be lawfull and thus an idol is set up tanquam Deus ex parte though not vt Deus simpliciter Thus I have answered the Prefacer Now how he will take it J know not Cotis a Thrasian King breaking some vessels to pieces was asked a reason He answered that he might not be moved to anger at another for doing of it Had the Epist been so wise as to have torne his writing himselfe and so not published it he would not as it may be he now will have been angry at another for laying open the weakenes and vanity of it AN Ansvver unto the Treatise SECT 1. WHen Satan cannot draw men to one extremitie he seekes to bring them unto another The truth of this the Holie Scriptures a 1 Cor. 5. 11. compare with 2 Cor. 2. 6 7. not only shew but sundry examples also prove it in this present age It is true as the Treatiser saith there are many who affecting alienation from others Numb 14 35 45. make their differences as great and their adverse opinion or practice as odious as they can Deut. 1 42. 44. A moat shal be a beame with them a knatt a Camell And hence through want of a take heed they become rejecters of persons and things which they ought not Againe on the other hand there are not a few who desiring liberty and large walking and to have the credit and love of all men use all their witt skill power to have great things I meane evils and sinnes esteemed small things And what is small that nothing That so they may finde a doore of entry to accord and agree with others in unlawfull practises Here therefore is the wisedome of the Saints namely that they shunne both these two extremities Medium tenuere beati And for my part of this later number I shall while I live professe my selfe by Gods grace be to both a Companion guide That is not at any hand to condemne what is to be justified neither to approve that thing which ought to be condemned There are two reasons laid downe by the Treatiser wherefore he penned this discourse 1. For the freeing of his owne conscience 2. The information of other mens Answ 1. J dare not thinke but the Treatiser when he fell first upon this point of Hearing spake as he thought of it and did nothing but what his minde gave him to be right and good But this makes not the thing therefore justifiable For as Martyr saith b Lex Dei is regula conscientiae Loc. Comm. Class 2. cap. 1. pag. 165. The Rule of our Conscience must be the Law of God Gideons Ephod was erected with a well meaning minde but it became a snare c â—udg 8. 27. and a scandall and an occasion of great idolatrie and the overthrow and ruine of his whole familie What hath this hearing been but a snare in Israel an occasion whereby many people have turned aside from the streaght wayes of the Lord. 2. I doe not see what satisfaction any man can have from his writing Seeing he hath not alleadged any one Sentence of Scripture to prove the point in question lawfull Omne quod loquimur debemus affirmare de Scriptur is Sanctis saith Hierom in Psal 98. Tom. 8. But this he hath not done onely he tels us that Hearing is a naturall action Hearing is no Communion c. Now where this so which is not in the sence he intendeth yet it serves not his turne in the least If a Theefe to cleare himselfe should say that he hath not stolen such particulars Yet if he have done other things he is a Theefe notwithstanding So in this case thought to heare false Ministers be not a sinne in such a respect Yet if it be in some other the action is neither Lawfull nor necessarie And here by the way let me speake a word to you whose warrant for your going unto unlawfull Assemblies is only the Treatisers writing This J doe affirme and will make good against all gainsayers that if the thing could be justified yet for his part he hath not proved it so but hath left the point it selfe wholy untouch'd and taken up a by-thing Therefore what Alcibiades said of the Athenians I may well apply to you You take things from other men not by triall but by trust and doe them rather of affection and will then out of any sure knowledge you have of the truth of them That the Treatiser made account to meet with Opposites I marvaile not Onely I marvaile seeing he fore-saw so much that he had not done his worke to some better purpose The first sort of Opposites are such who truly desire Treat and carefully indeavour to have their whole course both in Religion and otherwise framed by the holy and right Rule of Gods Word Answ These cannot chuse but be his Opposites and that for 3. reasons specially 1. Because of his lightnes and inconstancie in the matters of God and for that he seekes to build againe the thing which hee had before destroyed What he hath said against this Hearing the World is not ignorant of and therefore here is a fitt place to lay downe his own words to apply them to himself He sucks up his former breath and eates the words he had formerly uttered as though he had either forgotten what he wrote before or cared not how he crossed himselfe so he might oppose us * Iustificat of Separ p. 276. 2. Because the drift and scope of his writing thwarteth the truth and leadeth unto sinne against the Lord. 3. Causeth troubles in the Churches of God and hinders many from receiving the love of the truth But did the Treatiser thinke that the closest walkers with God would oppose him in this thing Then it must needs follow he made account that the loosest people for judgement practice would be the embracers of it A second sort is of them Treat whose tender and scrupulous conscience makes them fearefull jealous of everything that hath in it the least appearance on shew of evill c. Answ He that will not fall into a deepe pit will not come very neere to it in his travell Gods people saith Theodoret e CoÌ„ment in Thes 5 22. must be so abhorrent from evill both in Doctrine and manners that the shew of both ought to be avoyded And thus the Scriptures f 1 Thes 5 22. Iam. 1 27. Iud. 23. Rev. 16 18. presse and the Saints g Dan. 1 8 Rev. 3 4. Luke 1 5. have practised For his distinction between things onely naturally good in their kinds and use and others morallie
7. Lyran expounds this place of the false Church Tom. 2 p. 314. heare her told gueists and yeeld to sundry dallying gestures as bowing the knee uncovering the head c. but when they come to the act they must absteane What that learned man a Non est locus dondus Diabolo Nemo diu tutus periculo proximus l. 1 c. 11. then answered so doe I No place must be given to the Divell no man is long safe who is neere the point of daunger To the matter That our argument may appeare strong Secundam legem oppositionis as the Lawers terme is we will put it downe in this forme To yeeld any approbation liking or reverence unto mens institution in the exercise of Religion is a sinne But in hearing Antichristian Ministers there is approbation liking aud reverence yeelded unto mens institution in the exercise of Religion Therefore it is a sinne to doe it The Major cannot be denyed for the Scriptures b Mat. 15 19 Ps 16 4 Colos 2 20 21 Deu 5 9 10 1 Cor. 6 17 Hos 2 16 Ex. 23 13 teach us the very thing Besides the most judicious Writers affirme so too God forbiddeth saith Mr. Iacob c Exposition on Com. 2. all approbation liking or reverence though never so small shewed towards any institution and inventions of men whatsoever in the exercise of Religion yea all words either of tongue or pen tending to defend or excuse such humane inventions in Gods service I might alleadge Calvin d Serm. 52 on Deu. Mollerus e In ps 16 4. p. 108. Smilerus f In Exo. fol. 90. Macabeus g Enarrat in Deu. 12 loc 1. Vrsinus h Explic. Catech. p 759. Vigrandus i Synops Antichrist Zanchy k De redempt fol. 90 D. Andrew l On the Com. 2. D. Fulk m Confut. of Allen. 378. Perkings n Catech. c. 16 p 96 Cartvvright Ainsvvorth p Annot. on Ex. 20 45. and others who in their writings affirm the same The minor is as cleare for 1. Jt is not possible that men can come unto AntichristiaÌ„ churches to worship God but they must by their presence there shew reverence honour to the publick false state and ministery Note what an English Prelate q Determinat Quaest 7 p. 40. saith it appertaineth to the vertue of truth that as a man sheweth himselfe by externall signes so he is indeed to be esteemed The Doway r Annotat. in 2 King 5 19 p. 771. translaters of the Bible write thus such as frequent or repaire unto unlawfull assemblies for the publick service of God by their being there are to be reputed of the same religion or else dessemblers as it were to have noe care of religion knowing God and not glorifying him as God Cornelius a lapide s In Epist 2. p. 505. in his commentary on Iohn saith false ministers are favored and approved in their vnlawfull way when they are heard Chytraeus t De Eucharistia p. 317 318. handeleth largely this point from 1. Cor. 10. 14. concludes that all false Churches are to be left vtterly because saith he a mans presence there is an approbation of them Rivetus v Comment in Psa 16 p. 53. adds this Etiam si nemo ad confessionem adigeretur Yea though a man came not thether for confession sake If the fathers thought that the Christians could not weare garlants of bay x Tertull. de corona milit nor deck their houses with leaves and green bavves Nor sit after they had prayed nor rest from their labour those dayes that Pagans did nor keepe the first of every moneth as they did y Brac. z Tom. Can. 73. But they should countenance and honour heathenish ceremonies and superstitions If these fathers I say conceived so of these things surely then vpon the like or better reason may I conclude that to goe unto false churches and there heare unlawfull Ministers is to shew approbation liking and reverence vnto mens institutions in the exercise of religion The Prophet Hosea a Hos 2. 13. reproves some for kissing the Calues But what was this sinne Pareus b In Hos 13. 2. pag. 557. Tom. 1. saith it was their bodily presence at false worship by which presence they shewed aliking to it So Calvin c Praelect in Hos 13. 2. pag. 157. Againe the point is further cleared in that idols by this practice are honoured Observeable it is whereas on Evangilist a Maâ— 4. 9. See Pareus on the place setting downe the Tempters words to Christ saith vvorship me Another b Luk. 4. 7. hath it vvorship before me Shewing that it is all one to worship before the Devill or to worship him Now he is worshipped when idols c 2 Chro. 11. 15. 1. Cor. 10. 20. Rev. 9. 20. 1 Tim. 4. 1. are worshipped or any false institution are observed and practised Yea as Cartwright d Histor Christ lib. 1. pag. 14. saith taâ—etsi ex amino aut superstitione quadam deceptus hoc non faciant To apply this the Treat grants that a false Church is a real idol apart of Antichristisme and of the apostasie of the man of sinne If so then hearing there must needs be unlawfull because it is to worship before an idol such an idol as that the worship there done issues from it as the streame or river from the fountaine To the particulars of his reply 1. For the Athenians hearing of Paul it is as impertinent a speech as was ever used by a man of learning For we dispute only of Church hearing and not of what is occasionall and done out of publick-state or Church-vvay Wee never held it unlawfull to heare any man deliver the Word of God as the circumstances may be But what of this hence the Treat will inferre that we may heare any where and in any way If another should have framed such an answer to him he would have said that either he had not learn'd his Sophestry or else thought he had to doe with fooles For he reasoneth ab eo quod est secundum quid ad simpliciter Makes a generall consequence of that which is true in part 2. To say if I approve of the Office simply because I heare the Officer preach then I much more approve of all the Doctrines which he delivers This is not so nor so For the Office is an institution by which the Officer hath power to administer And howsoever we have our freedome to like or dislike of the administrations as we see just cause for it Yet by our joyning and communion with them we certainly approue of the state it selfe whether lawfull or unlawfull For Example If I come where the Majestrates are sitting and have civill justice there administred to me Albeit by this going of mine to their Court for judgement I really approve of the state that they are in yet J am not therefore
necessitated to approue of all the acts conclusions they make but may dislike them if I see they are not as they ought to be The Corinthians for ought I can see resorted unto the Feasts of idols upon the same ground that the Treat layes downe for hearing They went not of superstition for they were to well instructed and Paul in their person brings forth an excuse for them * 1. Cor. â— 4. We know that an idol is nothing As if they should say we regard not what they have devised their publicke false-state concernes us not for we have left it We are in no Church-communion with their Officers our meaning is not to worship as they doe they intend one thing we another But did this satisfie the Apostle Not in the least For he knew their private differing intention was but a strong fruit of the flesh monstrous presumpt on and a meere delusion For their eating was not to be looked upon and judged after their secret meaning But according to that publicke state where they were And here I desire the Reader to note the difference betweene Paul and the Treat Paul makes the sinne of the Corinthians to be their resorting to an idol-state Not simply their eating for thaâ— they might have done else-where but because it was in by or from an institution of the Devil The Treat layes us downe a contrarie Doctrine and tels us a false Church-state is nothing And Antichristian Officer nothing And that we may lawfully worship God in the one and heare his Word preached by the other provided we be not in Church-communion with the Officer c. Truely the difference here is great For the Treat cleares the Corinthians of the thing for which the Apostle condemnes them But I will not presse this further now Only what Augustine * said of the learned Fathers I may speake of the Treatis in stead of him or rather above him Paul the Apostle commeth to my mind to him I runne to him I appeale from all sorts of writers that thinke otherwise For conclusion if the false state of a Church and Ministerie defile only the members thereof And as for other present worshippers they are blameles Jf this I say be a true saying theÌ„ hath he vainely confind himselfe to the Ministerie of the Church of England For his Position will serve as well to justifie hearing among Papists Arrians Sorcinians Iewes Turkes c. Yea further and to be present at any service or worship they doe For what should hinder but according to this ground a man may lawfully goe to the Temples of the Saracens and he are their Preists considering they doe deliver many materiall truths As that God is true and righteous in all his wayes a â— In Alcho ran Azoara 1. The Creator of all things b The giver of every good gyft c Azoar 14. Ad that Iesus Christ is the Sonne of Mary d Azoar 11. the Messenger of God and a true Prophet e Azoar 7. If any object but they utter many lies and blasphemies I answer the hearing simply of errours corrupts not the Hearer For so he consents not to them in judgement not practice but testifieth against them he delivers his owne soule SECT 5. THE Treatiser layes downe our next OBJECTION thus By this then it seemes a man may be present at any act of Idolatrie and doe as others doe that practice Idolatry yet not approue of it And so the three Nobles in Danial needed not to have put themselves upon such pikes of daunger as they did for not falling downe as others did in the place To this he answereth Treat 1. In preaching of the truths of the Gospell no idolatrous act is performed Answ I perceive it is an easie thing to conquest if begging may procure one that But wee are no such children as to give the cause so away 1. Therefore J say in preaching of the truths of the Gospell viz by a false Minister about which is our dispute an idolatrous act is performed And that the Reader may understand this thing the better He is to consider that divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing howbeit in it selfe good but as all the essentiall parts belonging thereto whether they are persons or things are kept and observed The Church of Rome in Baptisme useth water and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and otherwhile wine too doth this cleare their administrations of idolatry So runns the Treat reasoning But wee cannot receive it for the Lord never spake so by him J thinke all men doe thinke that Vzziah a 2 Chro. 26. 16. committed an idolatrous act when he invaded the Priests Office But what made it so Tooke he unlawfull incense No. Used he strange fire No. Offered he prohibited sacrifice or upon a wrong Altar No. Where then lay the fault The Scripture tels us it pertained not to him to burne incense unto the Lord but to the Sonnes of Aaron b Ver. 18. To apply this if his act were idolatrous because he wanted a calling howbeit observed many truths of the Law By the same reason the Church-acts of Antichristian Ministers are idolatrous Yea as for the truths which they preach this clears their acts no more from idolatry then Vzziahs true incense and Altar quitted him from transgression It is truely said of one c Lavaret in Josh 22. Hom 61. pag 7. We ought not to conclude of an action that it is good because it hath in it some thing which in it selfe is so And this is true as in divine things so in humane too For it is a knowne Tenent of Philosophers d Omne totum suis partibus ordinatur mensuretur determinatur the vvhole is composed measured and determined of all the parts Vnto the constitution of the whole according to Aristotlec is required 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. As Iob f Iob. 24.4 saith vvho can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane Not one The false Office by our Oppositâ—es is acknowledged to be uncleane Now to deny that their Ministeriall acts are not from thence is against common sence And this further may be amplyfied by that passage in the Prophet g Hag. 2. 12 13. See Iunius on the place where it is shewed that holy things are polluted by touching things uncleane e Arist 12. Met. 3 Lib. de Poet. cap. 7. 3. If in preaching the truth according to the point in question no idolatrous act is performed Then it will follow that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time Provided he only teach * Note that such whom they call Lecturers in some places only preach and doe nothing else As I my selfe for some yeares stood soÌ„ the truths of the Gospell Our reason is for in this if he doe no idolatrous act then he sinneth not so Consequently no just cause of
Idolatrous act although in the mean time he exercise an antichristian office hence this must follow viz soe the truth be preached it is no matter whether the preacher bee sent from Antichrist or from Christ nor whether he preach at Dan and Bethell or at Ierusalem in the temple For if the former committ no idolatrous act hee is then as blamles in his way as the latter is in his Better the Treat had spared his words and lookd better to his answere or eat them both then to blott paper and abuse the reader with such unsound and hurtfall assertions SECT 6. OVr 4. Objection is laid downe for vs thus Hee that heares them preach heares them as ministers of the Church of England and as sent by the Bishops and soe in hearing them heares receaves them that sent them according to that of our Saviour hee that heares you heares me and hee that dispiseth you dispiseth me and hee that dispiseth mee dispiseth him that sent mee It was some addition to Davids n 1 Sam 17 51. victory over the Philistime that he slew him with his owne sword The taâ—ke is very easie to coÌ„fute all that the Treat here writes against vs by the engine of his owne acknowledgements For to say the truth Howsoever hee frames Objections for vs yet originally they are his owne and even word for word published by himself in former books to the world so that Obliquus cursus forgetting as it were What he had before held and written he makes himselfe in this controversie his owne greatest opposite Thâ—t this Objection can call no man Father so properly as the Treat Jt is certane for to my knowledge no man but himselfe hath used it Indeed he hath done it and applyed iâ—to the same purpose that he brings it here for us that is against the Hearing of unlavvfull Ministers His words are these o Manumiss to a Manuduct pag 9. If it belong to the chief Prelates to call Ministers that in calling them they give them power and authority though no absolute charge to preach according to the order of that Church Then followeth it undeniably that those Ministers thus preaching doo therein exercise the Prelates power And that it may be said of the Ministers Bishops as Christ said of his Disciples and himselfe that whosoever receives them that are sent receives them that sent them In submitting unto or withdrawing from him that is sent by the King in a worke of his Office men doe submitt unto or with-draw from the King himselfe and his authority So it is in all estates and subordinations whether Ecclesiasticall or Civill as every one that is not dimme in himselfe may see by the light of nature So writes the Treat Now let us see how he confutes himselfe I grant the former part of the Objection Treat and account the denying of it a point of Familisme seeing the Officers of publique states in the executing of their offices are to be esteemed according to the publick Lawes and Orders of those states and not according to any under hand course or intention either by themselves or others Answ A man that goes with a vaile before his eyes comes now and then into his waye although he know it not The Treat in this walke about Hearing in false Churches is sometimes cut otherwhile in he sayes and unsayes But so farre as he speakes the truth he speakes it against himselfe for his answer here it is nothing but a yeelding the case in some compasse and circumlocution of words and that the Reader may perceive it is so I will make it obvious and cleare to him by an argument or two and first thus If to heare Antichristian Ministers be to serve God in and by an ordinance way or institution devised by idolaters and with idolaters Then is it unlawfull But the first is true therefore the second The proposition is undeniable by the Treat owne confession For he grants that 〈◊〉 course of hearing is no ordinance left us by Christ Then 〈◊〉 it must be from Antichrist Againe he professeth they 〈…〉 as they preach and preach as Ministers of the 〈…〉 according to the publicke 〈…〉 is to speake 〈…〉 forme religious worship to God in and by a publick ordinance way and state which idolaters have invented and with idolaters This I say aperto pectore he grants to the full And no marvaile for to deny it were an audacious fiction monstrous unparelled presumption and would marke a man out for an Athesticall Familist as perspicuous as the leprosie of Vzziah which brake forth in his forehead The Assumption is as manifest For 1. by the Scriptures a Deu. 12. 30. Levit 18. 3. Exo. 23. 24. Levit. 9 27. 28. Deu. 14. 1 Levit. 19. 17. Gen. 35. 2. 3. Esa 27. 9. wee are prohibited from all conformitie with idolaters in any of their wayes order and manner of worship and Religious Observations It was the custome b Herodot in Thalia Becan in analog vet nov Test c. 15. of the Arabians and other Heathens in imitation of Dyonisius that is Bacchus to round the corners of their head Now this the Israelites might not doe c Levit. 19. 27. though in it selfe an indifferent thing d Calvin in Levit. 19. 17. because God would not have them to bee like idolaters This also may be further proved by the testimonie of learned men For to have any thing common with idolaters or to serve God after any way of theirs Or to take up and make use of any of their rites orders observations institutions for to worshipp God in or by them they hold to be unlawfull Yea howbeit a man be not in Ecclesiasticall union with them Thus have the old Fathers affirmed e Tertull de Coron Milit. Greg. lib. 1. Epist 44. ad Leon. Theod l. 1. c. 10. August Epist 86. ad Casul So our later writers Calvinists f Pareus in 1 Cor. 10 14. Bucer in Mat. 18. fol. 143. Beza Tract Theol. vol. 3. pag. 210. Lutherans g Cent. 4. c. 13 col 406. Chemnâ—t Exam. Theol. Melanct. par 2. pag. 491. formall Protestants h B. Iewell upon 1. Thes 5. p. 219. Sulclief Chal. pag. 62. in England Reformists i Perth assemb p. 55. 56. Alt. Damas p. 539. Papists k Bellar. de Monach. c. 40. de effect sacr l. 2. c. 31. Sect. 10. Rhemist annot on 1. Cor. 6. 14. 1. Timot. 6. Sect. 4. in Apoc. 1. 10. and Schoolemen l Aquin. 1. 2 a. q. 102. Art 6. c. 6. m. yea many Iew-Doctors m See Mr. Ainsworth in Levit. 19. 27. some Councils n Toledo Can. 5. 40. Laod. c. 38. Brac. Can. 32. 73. have thus concluded and the Cannon-Law o Deer Par. 2. Caus 26. quaest 7. c. 13. c. 14. c. 17. speakes so too And here I desire the Reader to observe that were the grounds true which
strong and lies as a stumbling block in their way to hinder the due practice of Gods ordinances 10. By it Idolaters are caused to shut their eyes and harden u Cornel. a lapide in Epist Ich. Secun p. 505. their hearts against the truth and soe consequently held the longer and stronger in the snare of the Devill 11. Jt is for nature and kind the sinne of the high places For wherein did the Isralites offend that way But because as Rivetus w quod fi bi adoratio nis loca arbitrio delegerint in Hos 4. p. 146. saith of their owne accord they made choyse of them places for divine worship Iunius x Annot. levit 17 7. saith soe too when they sacrificed in ALIO LOCO in any other place then the Lord had prescribed it was offered to Dâ—vils I will not here dispute of the materiall place I meane their temples of woode and stone whether Christians in them may lawfully performe publicke worship But this I do affirme and will stand to it that it is every way as evill to bring our spirituall offerings unto an Idollâ—state and there in it by it or with it to present the same vnto God as it was vnlawfull for the Iewes vnder the law to offer in the places beefore named some say a Lyran. comment in Amo. 5 27. the former is much worse because the same was never warrantable whereas the other somtime was as we haue else where noted pag. 18. 19. 12. To conclude this practice takes away the crosse of Christ persecution for righteousnesse It decks an adulterer with the spoile of the spouse of Christ It maks schisme in the Church in that men breake the order and bounds which God hath set in it b Melan in Evan dom 4. Advent p 94. Maks way for greater evils as apostacie from God sliding back to great vngodlines c Pare in Hos 8. p. 592. and to bee corrupted in the substance of religion and purity of Doctrine And what shall I say more Jt gratifies the Iesuits in commending d Maffeus In vita Ignat Laiola blind obedience and argues great presumptioÌ„ pride of heart as if man were wiser then God could devise either some better meanes or some other way for his edefication then the Lord hath prescribed e D. Willet Comment in 1 Sam. 15. 23. I do not know vvhat engine of vvit and art some men haue to elude these reasons and to batter them so dovvne as to make a safe passage through for a good conscience For my part I confesse such do goe bejoynd my line and measure of faith I dare not bevvise aboue that vvhich is vvriten it is enough for mee to knovv and beleeve that in this point vvee haue the vvord of God vvith vs and for vs. SECT 8. OVr six Objection Object 6. as hee layes it downe for us is thus If there be no communion at all between the Teacher and taught what profit then commeth by such hearing To this his answere is Treat The Church Officer feedes the stocke of Christ over which he is set as the object of his ministery Such as come in beeing not in Church vnion therewith heares him so doing as a stander by heares mee talke or dispute with another c Here is communion onely in the effects of the truths taught It were vsurpation in any to pertake in a Church previleidge which the office of ministery is that were not in Church state first so if hearing imported Church Communion none but in Church members might lawfully heare The Treat answers are much like to one that turnes himselfe many times about but moves not out of the place All that he saith is Homoeologia one thing often said over and over That is a change of the state of the question which is not about Church-communion but whether a beleever when hee heares a false minister in a worke of his office doe such an action as can be proved lawfull by the word of God Now to this which is the maine * Sacra scriptura tota vera necessaria sufficiens viatori consequen dum fineÌ„ suum nec est dubia via salutis Harum etiam explicatio quantuÌ„ adcreden da quaÌ„ tum ad speranda et quantum ad operanda ex plicatur ex diversis scripturae locis Scotus in 1. sent quaest thing we finde nothing in the Treatise but much paper blotted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 about questions and strifes of words which are indeed vaine and vnprofitable and whereof commeth envie strife evill surmisings rather then edefying which is in faith so to doe Jf J should say nothing to this some would say there were some thing in it Therefore I answere 1. It is a false kind of resoning which Logicians condemne vnder the tearme non causae vt causae when a thing is spoken either with limitation or without to conclude more theÌ„ the proemisses this fault the Trea. commits here For he would perswade vs that because the Church-officer his flocke are relatives therefore no man not in Church vnion hath relation to his office a M. Const Cnrin Metaph. l. 2. c. 1. R. Goclen in coÌ„trâ—v log p. 1 c. 18 Seal c 93 de caus Lat. But we are not altogether such novices but know a little how to distinguish Sophestrie from Philosophie Touching Relation the same may be considered 1. in ordinatione 2. in applicatione For the first which is a Relation by order or coniunctione that is relatio per se as Logicians b Fonsec 5. Metaphy c. 18 Quoest 2 Sect. 3. Timpl. Metap l. 4. Phrase it Here now I grant in this kind of Relation no man hath relation to the office of the Teacher that is not in Church-communion therewith But for the second which is relatio imperfecta or per accidens Here I affirme that in this kind The Hearer howbeit not in Church-estate yet hath relation to the Office of the Teacher and so farr forth is the object of his Ministerie Aristotle c Meta. l. 5 c. 5. speaking of sundry wayes of Relations unto persons and things sets downe these particulars 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 So then to goe where unlawfull Ministers teach observe the time hearken to their Doctrine shew the like outward submissive gestures and reverence that others doe performe divine worship there with them and among them This is to have relation to the idol-state both of Church and Ministerie if the Philosopher speake truelie Againe consider a relation in the parts thereof 1. Here is subjectum viz. Hearing 2. Fundamentum i. e. a false-state 3. Terminus viz. superstition but our Opposites name it edification 4. Relatum to weet the speaker 5. Correlatum viz. the Hearer And howsoever it may be said that in respect of Church-union the Relation here is properlie in the two later that is between the Church-officer and his Flock notwithstanding
not to make use of any unlawfull instruments or working-meanes whether it be Church Ministerie Worship or any Rite or Order in hope thereby to have some good effects And here I desire our Opposites to tell me seeing as the Treat r Treat of pub commun p. 29. confesseth that the Chancelour in the Consistorie and the Preist in the Pulpit or Desk doth administer by one and the same power Namelie that of the Prelate which from and by him both the one and other doth receive Why a man may not as well communicate in the effects of the administrations done by the Chancelour in his Consistorie so they are truths As in the effects of the truths taught by a Priest in his Pulpit or Desk 5. Though hearing simplie imports not Churchâ—communion yet all hearing in a Church-way imports a justification and allowance of the state both of the Church and Ministerie in which and by which a man is taught And this we have alreadie so proved that unlesse men resolve not to yeeld to the truth which is most plaine but to kick against the prick and with Cavils Glozings and facing out of things like so many fovle feer to trouble the cleane water they must needs see and say that the Treat in this point held an errour SECT 9. THe two next Objections and his answers to them are not worth the writing downe If any other doe otherwise thinke I wish much good it may doe him that can make any good of it But I proceed to the 9. Objection which he frames in this manner He that heares Object 9. appeares to have communion with the Church and Ministerie and all appearance of evill is to be avoyded 1. Thes 5. 22. To this Treat thus he answereth The Scripture is not to be understood of all that appeares evill to others out of an erronious and deceived judgement c. but it is meant either of the Doctrine in Prophâ—sie c. or of that which appeares evill to a right discerning eye By this imagined exposition I might not hyre a house in a Parish where I were not knowne seeing thereby I appeare a Parish member Answ 1. I know not in truth what better to liken this answer then to that Nightingale of whom a Lacedemonian * Plutarch in Apothed lacon when he had plucked of her sethers and saw only a little Karkesse left said Thou art a voyce and nothing else The truth is the utmost that he hath here said is a meere colour of some thing while nothing is to be found in it For what was in the Objection remaines still virtualiter for ought he hath said to it or against it 2. If a man were to make a sword for his enemie he would set as little edge upon it as could bee for to save himselfe The Treat in framing this and other Objections for us is sure to make them blunt enought that so they may the lesse hurt him and profitt us But seeing we have the weapon now in our owne hands wee will doe our best to sharpen it Our argument therefore here shal be thus laid downe Whatsoever is an appearance of evill to a right discerning eye the same ought to be avoyded But to heare unlawfull Ministers in Antichristian Assemblies is an appearance of evill to a right discerning eye Therefore it is a sinne to doe it The Proposition is proved from 1. Thessal 5. 22. and here granted by the Treat The Assumption is as certaine by these reasons following For 1. This going to the place where they goe and hearing as they doe is an occasion whereby a man comes into a suspition of idolatrie and that he is of the same mind with the rest whatsoever otherwise he pretendeth And thus have our Martyrs testified as Smith a Acts Monu 1876. Bradford b ibid. 1829. and others And that this is an appearance of evill both Papists c Eckius Tom. 3. in fest 5. Mich. p. 706. and Protestants d doe acknowledge it Peters adjoyning himselfe to the Iewes Gal. 2. was ostentatio falsae opinion is as Pareus e Exercit Theol. ib. 2 p. 111. saith a shewing of the same errour that they did though his private meaning was other wise So here B. Iewell en 1. Thes 5. 22. p. 219 Cent. 2 l 2 c. 4. 2. It is an appearance of evill when men doe that which causeth others to feare they are unsound But such a feare is here justly caused For many holy men have counted these Table-Gospellers f Act. Monum p. 1876 1829. and said they did it to avoyd persecution And reputed this action much like the Counsell in the prophane Orator g Servire temporibus apientis semperest habitum Tul. in Ant. It is alwayes thought great wisedome to apply ones self unto the times The reason wherefore Iohashaphat is blamed for his affinitie h 2 Chro. 18. 1. with Ahab was quia scandalum dedit subjectis quass foris non improbaret idolatriam quam domi abrogaverit This is their cause i Pareus Exer. Theol. l. 2 p. 101. who goe to false Churches It makes the Godlie to thinke that their performances among them are not perfect But that they have some sinester ends both in comming to them and going back againe to the other 3. When idolaters see us present at their worship they must needs hereby be hardened and hartened in superstition And this is another breach of that precept in 1. Thes 5. 22. It is observed of some k P. Mart. Loc Commun Clas 3 c. 2 p. 241. that Namaan might not doe any civill reverence in the House of Rimnon least through any appearance or shew of idolatrie some might be strengthned by it in false worshipp Augustine l Tom. 10 Hom. 6. writes very well to this purpose Doe ye aske me saith hee how the Gentles may be won How they may be called to salvation FORSAKE THEIR MEETINGS let goe their toyes and then if they agree not to our truth let them be ashamed of their fewnes This Counsell wee shall doe well to follow For there is not a readier way to bring people off from their idolatrie then to let them alone m Hos 4 17. See Iunius on the place as Gods bids us Keep away from all their humaine formes and fashions of Religion and especiallie such as are round about us and live amongst us as Cartwright n Reply 1. to Whitg p. 131. excellently shewes 4. It hath a shew of evill in that it is a matter of active scandall and giveth occasion to our brother to fall into that evill whereof it hath ashew to wit that there is no just cause to separate from false Churches but that people may remaine members thereof And howsoever there be not here an intention in the doer to draw another into sinne yet of itselfe o Quando ipsum factum est tale quod de sui ratione habear
fallacia ex ignorantione veri Elenchi which is to change the state of the question and to draw Conclusions contrarie to the true rules of the axiomes or propositions disputed off The Treat is fallen into this fault For whereas our question is onlie about hearing in Church-way and of Church-Officers Hee alters quite the state of the point and speakes of hearing at large As if we should question whether Hearing simplie bee unlawfull and not rather hearing with certaine adjuncts That is in an Antichristian Church of a false Minister the like But to come to his answer 1. What it is to Prophesie in his sence ‡ The Trea. wrote once that no Scripture justines preaching out of a true Church much lesse in a false Church justificat Separ p. 73. I know not neither doe I inquire after For it is sufficient for me to know what Prophesie is and what true Prophets are in the sence of the Scriptures In the Booke of God I find true Prophets to be taken three wayes 1. Strictly for one who from the inward counsell of God could foretell things to come g Gen. 20. 17 Numb 12 6 Deu. 18 55. 2. For Lawfull Pastors and Teachers in the Churches of Christ h Mat. 10. 41. 1 Thes 5. 20 Rev 11 6 3. And more largely For such private members i 1 Cor. 14 Rom. 12. 6. of particular Churches as have received the gift of the interpretation of the Scriptures and so are able to speake to edification exhortation and comfort Of no other true Prophets doe I read in all the Scripture Seing therfore the Preists he pleads for are not of any of these rancks k Quae. in what ranck of Prophets unlawfull Ministers are And under what Scripture they are comprehended I would haue a private Christian aske this question of some learned divine whome hee knowes doth hold it lawfull to heare false Ministers And it is very likely he will answer him by deepe silence Then needs must they be false Prophets and so consequently not to bee heard 2. Againe in p. 77. He sayth No maÌ„ teached the Gospell but was a member of a true Church For the other part of his answer Which is hee that teacheth false Doctrine is a false Prophet Here I thinke wee must take his meaning and leave his words But what he meanes J know not And therefore will cast it aside only here is a fitt place to propound a question or two 1 Whether to hold teach and practice the errours and lies conteyned in their Canons Service-Booke Bookes of Articles and the Ordering of Bb. Preists and Deacons doe make a false Prophet 2. Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the main truths which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible Church make a false Prophet 3. Whether it bee Lawfull to heare any false Prophet known so to be l There is one question more viz. whether the Lords Lawfull Preists which served at the Altar in Ierusalem mought not as well urge their people to heare Ieroboams Preist at Dun and Bethel As the Ministers novv under the Gospell to persvvade men to heare in false Churches If it bee not all one shevv the difference The simple beleeveth every word m Pro. 14. 15. But the prudent man looketh well to his going There is nothing more in this answer but a little girding at some mens persons and at their exercise of Prophesie to which J will say no more but in the Poets n Iuvenal Satyr 2. words Dat veniam Corvis vexat Censura Columbas SECT 13. THE 13. Objection is laid downe in this manner The Lords forbids Iudah going to Gilgal or to Bethel Hos 4. 15. 16. Treat The meaning is plaine the words expresse that they were not to goe thither to offend and play the Harlot in joyning to idols Ver. 15. 16. This I grant ‡ Nos qui Christiano nomine gaudemus dicemus nos abjicere Deos alienos verum colere cum pars idola defendat adoret colat breviter divinis honoribus pro sequatur Lavar in Josh c. 24 Hom. 71. p fol. 81. is to be done in no place But deny any such thing to be done in the hearing by mee pleaded for The Scriptures every where forbid the going or comming to such places or persons as in by or with them some evill is done to wit for the doing of any thing evill or unlawfull in or with them This is all a primo ad ultimum Ansvv When Children find any hard words in their Lesson They wil be sure to passe them quickly over Hoping thereby to save themselves I must needs say the Treat met here with a strong argument And therefore it is no wonder though he shew us a Scholers tricke To wit leave that speedilie the which hee knew not how to answer * See the like answer to our 1. Object It is Antonies precept in Tullie if men be troubled about a hard question to say nothing to it De Orat. l. 2. If the Reader doe not see the weaknes of it to say the best of it I will set before him a glasse to vew it in For 1. He makes himselfe here an Opposite to science 2. To Conscience 3. To the truth And lastly to himselfe And first of the first They vvere nor sayth he to goe thither to offend J professe in all good conscience my desire is not to pervert his meaning but to understand it But how to understand it J know not For his speach is much like the answer which Pythius the Preist gave to Pyrrhus the King Epire. a Cicer. de divin Ajo te Aeâ—cida Romanos vincere posse An answer so dubious discrepant as it cannot be gathered from it whether He or the Romanes should overcome The Treat answer is of the like ambiguitie and darknes It is an 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as the Philosopher b Arist 1 Seph 4. speakes For you cannot directly say whether hee intends that Iudah might Lawâ—ully heare Ieroboams Preists at Dan and Bethell or not You may take it either way or no way For it is utroque nutans sententia a speach like an Echo and will say whatsoever you will say before it But it is no marvaile Hoc neque prophetae predicaverunt neque Dominus docuit neque Apostoli tradiderunt Iren. l. 1. c. 1. though hee leaves the matter thus in a doubtfull sence For I beleeve what Augustine c Liberius improbare non audio ad Ian. Epist 119. sayth of himselfe was here true in the Treat hee durst not freely speake his judgement But in the meane time this sheweth a wretched cause For whosoever sees his cause to be good hee will search and weigh rather what should be said plainly and to the full then what may be said darkly and coulorable and so to put it off with a shift 2. If he meant to say any thing his
Sacrifices there administred in and by an Antichristian state of Ministerie Hee justifieth c Guiliad Comment in 1 Cor. 10 18. by his going their idolatrous Church Ministerie vvorship c. and makes himselfe a will-worshipper with the rest according to Pauls Doctrine in the former Examples * See the Rhemist on the place How they will chop this argument small that they may the easier swallow it I know not But this I am sure off they cannot presse it downe with divine authoritie d Auserantur de medio quae adversus nes invicem non ex divinis Canonicis libris sed aliunde recitamus August de unita Eccles cont Petilian c. 3. But either they must verba dare as they speake and use technas peiseis uncunning proofs Or acknowledge it to be a truth as in truth it is To come to his answer which is like a fagot of thornes full of prickles bound up with straw the which by the fyre of Gods Word is quickly burned 1. He applies things here aschematiston very ilfavoredlie The Office saith hee doth not make that to become the Word of God which was not so actually before True Neither did the Altar make the thing to be offered to become that which it was not so actually before For we know before it was laid upon the Altar it was flesh but afterwards it became a Sacrifice The same is true concerning the Word For howsoever the Office makes it not to become the word of God as neither did the Altar make the thing to be offered to become flesh yet by the Office it is made a Church-sacrifice the which it was not so before e Daverba decive nerves Persius Sat 4. And here I desire the Reader to observe how disorderly he sets things downe The Altar makes the thing to be Offered actuallie to become a sacrifice which it was not before But so doth not the Office make that to become the Word of God which was not so actually before Inguinis Capitis quae sint discrimina nescit What Child may not see the absurditie of it For all that hee could conclude from the first assertion unlesse he would conclude nothing was either thus The Office makes the Word of God to become a Church-sacrifice which it was not before but in destination Or thus The Office makes not the Word of God to become a Church sacrifice for it was so before This latter howsoever it be voyd of truth yet there would have been some sence in it ‡ Doe not thinke that the Treat wrote this Elenchum sophisticuÌ„ ignoraÌ„tly but rather fore-saw what inconvenieÌ„ce vvould fol lovv if he should let the argument runn out orderly and proportionably I beleeve hee savv vvell enought should he grant that the Office makes the vvord to become a Ministeriall Church-Sacrifice This Scripture vvould stand in force against the thing they pleaded for 2. For the place of Scripture Mat. 23. 19. the meaning is As they had erected an Altar and dedicated it to the Lord according to his appointment whereon to offer Sacrifices So the things offered to God on it and by it were after a sort sanctified by the Altar f That is it made them publick Church-services acceptable to the Lord. And the same is true of Christs Ministerie As it is a divine institution given unto the Church for the performance of Holy things so it sanctifyeth the things that is makes them to become Lawfull Ministerial Church-Ordinances without which they were not so Neither could they be so reputed And this may be as applied also to a false Ministerie For as it is an institution of Satan and Antichrist to have their wicked devises administred So it defiles every administration done in it and by it And for the administrations they are all false unlawfull Antichristian Church-actions †Quamvis Dei solius sit sanctificare tamen aliquo modo quae principalius Deo sunt-consecrata ad se pertinentia sanctificare dicuntur Muscul in Evang. Mat. c. 23 p. 477. Tom. 3. offered to the Devill g Hoc est judicium Dei de quavis cultu de de quavis Religione quem non secundum verbum eius exercetur Non Deo sed demonijs prestatur Pare Com. in 1 Cor. 10. 20. Fingere enim falsum cultum est falsum Deum fingere quia tunc fingitur falsa Dei voluntas sic falsus Deus Par. in 1. Cor. 10. 7. and otherwise to be taken 3. Where he saith the eating of the Sacrifices in Israell became their Sacraments and the Heathen sacrifices were their Sacraments Howsoever were this so it neither hurts us nor helpes him Yet I cannot see how it can be so applyed For 1. Circumcision and the passeover were Israels Sacraments And therefore by Altar their whole Religion and Worship is understood As Zanchy h Altare pro tota religione cultu accipitur praecept 3 p. 534. truely observeth Againe the Apostle prohibiteth not only the eating of the Heathen Sacraments but all going to their Temples to doe any thing there with them or among them Yea though it were not with any intent to performe a Religious Action So i Respicit congressus c. Comment in Psul 16. pâ—g 53. Rivetus 4. As meats considered in themselves may Lawfully be eaten any where if it be done without the offence of the weake as Paul Teacheth at large 1 Cor. 10 25 29. Yet if meats bee considered as they are offered to idols and eaten in the Idolâ—Temples in the honour of idols * See his justificat of sep 94. they be unlawfull The like may be said of the word if we consider it in it selfe the same may be preached Lawfully any where But if the Word be considered as Antichrist useth it Distingue tempora locus reconciliabis scripturas or rather abuseth it in setting up a false Church and Ministerie to teach it in and by In this respect the Word is not Lawfully preached How oever here againe he insinuateth the contrarie Distinguish saith Augustine k times and places and thou shalt reconcile the Scriptures Lastly J desire the Reader to make it well Howsoever the Treat hath said something yet nothing at all to the Objection For he should have proved that howsoever they who did eate of the sacrificed Beasts of the Altar justified the Altar And they which went to idol-Temples honoured the idoll Yet now wee may Lawfullie take and eate the spirituall sacrifices which come off from the Altar of false Churches and false Ministeries And yet not justifie the Altar nor give any honour or consent thereto No nor any shew or appearance thereof †Quae Whether such as pretend to ground their practice of hearing on this Treatise doe not shew either lightnes in not weighing what is said Or ignorance in not discerning what they read or wilfulnes in doing a thing for some by respect pretending this Booke as a