Browne a knowne Scismatike is a man very fit to be one of your witnesses against the Eldership Page 75. lin 29 His entertainment in Scotland was such as a proud vngodly man deserued to haue God giue him and you repentance if it be his will otherwise you shall make and hard reckoning both of you before the iudgement feate of Iesus Christ for the slaunders which you haue raised vp against the gouernement of his kingdome heere vpon earth Your calender deceiued you for it was not the Parliament of the yeare 88. where of hee wrote Page 76. lin 4. but of another held Anno 86. or before If any thing be written amisse in any of the books that you mencion Page 78. wee haue nothing to doe therewith Bring our owne assentions and you shal be answered We holde it altogether vnlawfull for Ministers and Church officers to deale in any ciuil cause much more to depose Princes and therfore our attempts that way are not to be feared Looke you Page 79. your masters vnto those thinges who arrogat vnto your selues that preheminence which is in deede dangerous vnto the throne of the magistrate and thinke Parliaments and lawes cannot bee halfe orderly kept and enacted without Lords spirituall Your feare Page 80. lect 3 that whatsoeuer hath bene done or written in forraine Countries is laboured to haue execution with vs at home is but the ouerflowing of your gall The disease is daungerous and you may one day aunswere for your distempâ—rature in his presence before whome the imaginers of euill against their brethren shall haue their reward We holde indeede Rom. 13.2 that the Magistracie is gods ordinance bee he a good or a bad Page 81. an heathen or a Christian that is called thereunto so that the right of a Christian and an heathen Magistrate within his dominions is the same You that hold the contrary professe your selfe not to bee a subiect for conscience sake as the Apostle commaundeth but for some other respect So you would bee very dutifull belike if you were vnder an heathen Prince Ministers wee say are not to deale in ciuill causes Page 82. lin 27 and therefore in that point wee ascribe vnto the Magistrate both PotestateÌ„ juris facti that is power to make lawes to execute them If there arise anie difficultie as often as it commeth to passe of that which is agreable vnto the law of God in matters that are controverted then indeed it is the Ministers dutie to enforme the Magistrate of the mind of the Lord wherein hee doth nothing els but respondere de jure shewe what the will of God is that the magistrat may statuere de facto pronounce sentence accordingly For Ecclesiasticall matters it is the word of God onely that therein hath potestateÌ„ juris the power to determin what is acceptable in the sight of God the Minister ought to haue the knowledge thereof that he may declare the same both vnto Magistrate and people The Church officers also are appointed of God to execute all ecclesiastical maters And if you should attribute this power vnto the magistrate the imagistrate might iustly account of you as you are For will you haue the Magistrate to preach the word administer the Sacramentes take the charge of watching ouer the maners of the people and distributing to the pore within his parish or will you haue him to visite the sicke comfort the weake ordaine ministers discusse controuersies in religion exercise the church censures by excommunications c. And yet these are the only maters which wee account ecclesiasticall wherein alone we hold it lawfull for church officers to deale other punishments of malefactors as imprisoning fining or any mulct that toucheth the life body or goodes of men are only to be reterced to the Magistrates who beare the sword for that purpose Our Bishops vsurping this sword doe shewe that they and their fathers house and not wee doe labour to bring and maintaine confusion in church common wealth You exhortation both vnto people and magistrates Page 85. that the one shoulde avoide and the other punish heretical spirits we imbrace withal our harts Being ready to shewe as our writings haue done at large that your errors corruptions idlenes pride ambition slaunders and vntruthes vttered against the truth hath not only as dayly experience teacheth vs begotten and nourished the lamentable ignorance which euery where raigneth in this land but alsoe called for the wrath of God to fal vppon vs because such vnruly and wicked spirits as you are tollerated in the holy ministerye amongest vs. Page â—6 You are now come to the gathering vppe of your standers and vntruche into an heape in the conclusion of your sermon lest the readers and auditors shoulde forget that you are an impudent slaunderer And therefore that you may incense the magistrates against vs in one place especially you rake theÌ„ vp after this manner Hir Majestie is depraued hir authority is impugned and greate dangers are threatned Page 57 to 19â— M Doct. thinkâ— belike that wee are maintainers of the hierarchy Ciuil gouerment is called into question princes pretogatiues are curiously scanned the interest of the people in kingdomes is greatly aduaunced al gouernment generally is pinched at comemened The Church is condemned the auncient fathers are despised your preachers are defaced and yet these men are tollerated Whereunto I answere with the wise man that the lying tonge slayeth the soule Pron 12.6 and that the very wordes of the wicked lye in wayte for blood but the mouth of the righteous wil deliuer them And so wee doubt not whensoeuer wee are araigned for any of these heauy accusations but that wee shal bee deliuered from this bloody tonge The reader knoeth that as a noble Emperour spake in the like case if it be sufficient to accuse no man can be innocent Nowe if he hath these aduantages against any of vs let him set down his particulars and name the man or his writings and he shal be answered Otherwise we make no other account of such Epistrophaes homoioteleutaes page 88. line 4. then of the barking and dogge Rethorick of some profane Lucian or god lesse Porphirie It is no news for vs to haue our legs thighs desired to be broken Ioke 19.30 The reader is to remember that this was the Iewes requests vnto Pilate concerning our Sauiour Christ and therefore wee are not to thinke it strange that M. Bancroft is guided by their spirit whose place he supplieth But this wee are to knowe that neither he not his masters shal do any thing against vs but that which the Lord our God hath long since determined and therewith by his grace Act. 4 1â— wee hope to be right wel contented In stead of arming his hearers with reasons out of the word against vs whome he accounteth sect masters and false Prophets hee commeth
to atchieue his purpose And that is neither to father vpon vs such thinges as we neuer maintained nor yet to bring the testimonies of men to oppugn our conclusions whose grounds he is not able to shake but to set downe that which we holde indeed and with reasons rather to answere our premisses then with authorities to strike at our conclusions The contrary dealing may colour and white line the breaches of his cause for a time but in the end it will prooue to be the ruine thereof Vnconscionable and sophistical dealing can neuer be able to stand any long time He and his Masters would gladly beare the Magistrat in hand that we deny the congregations in England where the word is truly preached and the sacraments rightly administred to be the visible churches of God wheras the truth is that the Bishops and not we doe maintaine this error Let the reader judge whether I truly accuse them by this which followeth The visible church of God wheresoeuer it bee hath the power of binding â—nd loosing annexed vnto it as our sauiour Christ teacheth vs. Mathew 18. which authority is so essentially tied vnto the visible church that wheresoeuer this power is to bee found there the church of Christ is also visible Our Bb. are scismatickes and deny the assemblie of England to be visible church of God booke of Martins page 5. 6. and wheresoeuer there is a visible church there this authority cannot bee denied to be The which point that reuerend father M. Iohn Fox teacheth more at large Now the reader cannot be ignorant that our Bishops wil neuer grant that the visible congregations in England ought to haue this power of binding and loosing for then should they manifest themselues to bee professed tyrants The crime therefore of Scisme and Donatisme which M. Bancroft and the Prelates would fasten vpon vs doth justly clâ—aue vnto them selues And if any of our poore brethren be caried away to thinke otherwise of the congregations of England which inioy the woorde truly preached and the right vse of the Sacramentâ— VVe cease not to pray that the Lord would reforme their iudgements But woe bee vnto our Bishops which are the cause of this their stumbling and maintainers of their error For the pore brethren doe holde nothing in this point but that which the learned fathers as M. Bancroft calleth them haue decreed And you shall see in this Treatise that he seeth no reason why Popery being now abollished Sermon pag. 3 wee should not reply vppon the determinations of these fathers as other men in time past of a great iudgement as we are haue done Let our Bishops then and their vpholders whisper into the eare of the Magistrate what they will it shall bee prooued in the end that they are the scismatickes and not we It shall appear that they are growing to make a body of their owne wherewith the church of God in a while if they hold on their course can haue no mote to do then in times past in had with the scismaticall Donatists The deuill indeede hath within this twelmoneth shewed himselfe to bee grieuously wounded in their persons because he hath raged so mightily as these 32. yeares his furie was neuer seene so great against the truth as at this present That vile and scurrilous Palmphlet An almond a Patrot latey suffered to come abroad by their priuity if not allowance and in their defence doth euidently shew that sathan feeleth the power and sway which he was wont to bear by vertue of the hierarchie to be greatly weakned And because he feareth that his time vnder their gouernment cannot be long therefore he meaneth now to infect the aire at once with all his contagions The strength which they get by such leud and filthie stuffe the discredit which thereby they worke either vnto the cause or the men and women whome they suffer to bee so vnworthilie traduced is not other then it were to bee wished that seeing they will needs be filthy they would publish such another booke euery day That then it might appeare indeede whose sonnes they are And this is all the confutation that I thinke so godles leud a scrole to deserue For thy selfe good reader thou seest the time of triall to be now at hand euen at the doore If thou meanest to be partaker of Christes kingdome after this life take heede that neither the feare of men nor the loue of the world draw thee to shrinke from any part of that truth which the Lorde hath reueiled in his word The Lord saith that whosoeuer shall be ashamed of him or his worde that is any part of his truth before men Luk. 9.26 of him shall the sonne of man be ashamed when he commeth in his glory VVell I thinke it now no time to dally with the Lord and his word but let vs craue strength at his hand that we stand vnrebukeable vnto the day of his appearance A BRIEFE DISCOVERY OF THE VNTRVTHES AND SLANDERS AGAINST Reformation and the fauourers thereof contained in D. Bancrofts Sermon D. BANCROFTS TEXT 1. Iohn 4.1 Dearely beloued beleeue not euery spirite bâ—â—â—â—ie the spirites whether they be of God For many false Prophets are gone out into the world ANSVVERE IT hath bene the ancient custome of Sathan and his instruments in all ages I answere not the word but the abuse of the word to abuse the holy worde and name of God as a ground vnto all their vngodly proceedings against the Lorde and his Saints that there by they might haue some colour of their persecutions and wicked attempts against the truth and professors thereof That I bee not tedious in a matter too apparant hence it is that in all the condemnations of the holy Martyrs of Christ by that Romane Tyrant We see all their processes to begin in the name of God the accusasions laid to the charge of the Saints to bee so boulstred out with the testimonies of holy Scripture as though the spirite of God had none to condemne of heresie scisme sedition and treason saue onely the members and messengers of Christ Iesus And therefore M. Bancroft if you begin with Scripture and as I may say in the name of God begin to speake against God against his blessed verity and people you doe but your kind in treading the steppes of your predecessours You haue your forefathers the Scribes and Pharises that Antichristian beast of Rome his Cardinals Bishops Legates inquisitors and all others that haue coloured their garments with the bloud of the Lords chosen for your presidents and examples The delusion of your course could not bee so great if you did shewe your selfe in your colours Your Sermon declareth that your affection serueth you rather to fight against the truth with fire and fagot then by sober writing or speaking to stand in the defence of your cause Well you deale against false Prophetes Scismatiques giddy spirites disturbers of the church enemies
hath appointed Church seruaunts and widowes to the same purpose vnder the Gospell Heere by good reades thou seest that not onely wee but the holie ghost also saith those thinges concerning the regiment of the Church hoth vnder the new and olde Testament which Maister Bancroft is not able to gaine say with any colour of truth And yet it were season that either his answere or his consent should be had M. BANCROFT This forme of gouernement they cal the tabernacle which God hath appointed the glory of God and of his sonne Iesus Christ the presence of God the place which he hath chosen to put hi◠name there the courte of the Lord and the shining forth of Gods glory ANSVVERE Although I deny not but the true gouernement of the Church by the Eldershippe might haue the most of these titles truly attributed vnto it wherewith the visible Church vnder the new Testament is adorned yet the most of those names which you set downe being something insolent and strange I make no doubt but all modest writers would abstaine from them Especially knowing how subiect this cause in our time is vnto the godlesse cauils of suche as care not what they write to the disgrace thereof And because you haue set them down with out any authority for mine owne part I can no otherwise thinke of them then of the brood of your owne slaunderous spirite whereunto you can find no couert vnder the wings of your aduersaries whē you haue produced your witnesses to prooue them none of yours I will in this point alter mine opinion and it stands you vpon to cleare your selfe That which followeth in your Sermon doeth manifest both your ignorance in the cause and also that you haue so acquainted your tongue and pen with vntruthes that you are a stranger vnto the wordes of veritie and vprightnes your wordes are these D. BANCROFT page 6. line 13. VVhere this ecclesiastical Synod is not erected they say Gods ordinance is not performed the office of Christ as he is a King is not acknoledged in effect with out this gouernement we can neuer attaine to a right and trewe feeling of christian religion but are to be reckoned among those Luke 19.27 who say of Christ we wil not haue this man to raigne ouer vs. ANSVVERE As though we desire ecclesiastical Synods to be erected in euery congregation and parish or that we make no difference betwene a Synod which is a meeting of al the ministers and elders if occasion should require or more properly of some choise ministers and elders in a whole prouince or more generall and the Eldershippe which containeth the gouernors to wit the Pastors Doctors and elders of one only congregation The reader may se what a meet man you are to be an inueigher against the eldership whereas you knowe not what it meaneth and whether a Synod and an Eldership be al one or not Where this forme of ecclesiastical gouernement is not erected there indeed we say that Gods ordinance concerning the regiment of his church is not wholy obserued but that his whole ordinance is wanting where there is a faythful teacher we neuer as yet affirmed And therefore if by your generall speach that wee say Gods ordinance is not performed c. you meane that we denye any part thereof to be where the gouernement by the Eldership is not established you doe but followe your owne humor that is beare false witnesse against the truth and those that professe the same The office of Christ as he is a King is boath to teach and to gouerne his church by his own lawes Our Bishops doe professe them selues to robbe the church of the scepter of gouernement which they haue tyranuously wrested to them selues therefore we truly say that they suffer Christ to haue but halfe a kingdome at the most vnder their jurisdiction and that we feare ful sore against their wills we grant indeed that many congregations in the land doe enjoy Christ Iesus raigning among them by the scepter of his word and wee doe day and night according vnto our weake measure of faith heartily thanke our God for this blessing and beseeche him from the bottome of our hearts to shew mercy vnto our soueraigne Queene Elizabeth vnder whose peaceable gouernment we are partakers of so inestimable a treasure Yet notwithstanding it is too well knowen what a straunger the sauiour of mankinde is to the most part within our lande because the voyce of his gospell is neuer effectually heard among them and so wee may truly say that the office of Christ as he is a king is no wise acknoledged vnder the jurisdiction of our Bishops in many places of our land Againe we do so thanke the Lord for the enjoying of his Gospel preached as we cease not humbly to intreate his majestie that leeing hee hath vouchsafed vs the lauour to bee of his householde it would also please him that wee may bee ruled by the offices and lawes of his owne house For what hath the Temple of God to doe with the gouernement and statutes of the kingdome of Antichrist And we doe protest that wee will giue him no rest vntill hee hath vouchsaued to heare our supplications euen in this point And yet in the meane time we doe acknowledge his office as he is a king and doe professe our selues without this Gouernement which wee labour for to haue attained vnto some right and true feeling of christian religion though not to such a measure as we hope to reach vnto whensoeuer the Lord shall graunt vnto vs the vse of his holy ordinaunce which wee so earnestly desire This may serue M. Bancroft for a sufficient confutation of your loose and vnbridled tongue which are not ashamed to publish that without this gouernement we holde that men can neuer attaine vnto a right and true feeling of religion we haue euermore affirmed the contrary are able to proue the contrary For wee holde that those 3000. soules which in one day were added vnto the Church at Ierusalem Act. 2.41 before the Eldership was established among the disciples had a true feeling of religion wee say the same of the Church of Creta Tit. 1.5 euen before euer Titus ordained elders in euery citie among them The like iudgement wee haue of the church of England at this day But as the spirite of God recordeth that notwithstanding these Churches of Ierusalem and Creet had a true feeling of Christ yet it behooued them to submit themselues according vnto Gods ordinance vnto the gouernement of the Eldership which a Act. 15.4.6 Titus 1.5 they enioyed So say wee of our selues in Englande and of all other Churches in our case that although our knowledge and feeling were neuer so great as alas it is but too too slender yet are we to be built further and further and wrought vppon by all the holy ordinances of God least wee be depriued of that inheritance which is to bee had among
A BRIEFE DISCOVERY OF THE VNTRVTHES AND SLANDERS AGAINST THE TRVE GOuernement of the Church of Christ contained in a Sermon preached the 8. of Februarie 1588. by D. Bancroft and since that time set forth in Print with additions by the said Authour THIS SHORT ANSVVER MAY SERVE FOR THE CLEARING OF the truth vntill a larger confutation of the Sermon be published 2. PET. 2.1.2.3 But there were false Prophetes also among the people euen as there shall be false Teachers among you which priuilie shall bring in damnabâ—e heresies euen denying the Lord that hath bought thâ—m bring vpon themselues swift daÌ„nation And many shall follow their damnable waiâ— by whom the way of truth shall be euell spoken of And through couetousnes shall they with fained words make marchandise of you whose judgment long agon is not farre of TO THE GODLIE INDIFFERENT Reader judgement to discerne and zeale to imbrace the truth THinke it no wonderful case beloued to see the church of England so out of order at this day as our confusions are altogether more in number then the ha res of our head For those that will needes bee our Pastors and spirituall fathers are become beastes as the Prophet Ierem saith and haue not sought the Lord. And therfore what maruell is it though we the poore sheepe bee miserablie dispersed not knowing whether to turne vs for any succour Our guides haue not onely misled vs but they are become wolues in stead of shepheards So that we dare not shew our selues for feare of their teeth to seke any pasture but the bare feeding which they haue laid before vs. And if we shâ—ld â—pen our mouths to sue for the true shepheards and ouerseers indeed vnto whose direction we ought to be committed The rage of these wolues is such thou seest as this endeuor would almost be the price of our life For if this request were once granted they ful wel perceiue that they should not haue so much as a place of a doore keeper within the sheepefold of the Lord. And therefore they euery way labour to keepe vs in bondage They hide the truth will not suffer others to see the same If the Lord in mercy doe open the eies of any man hee must not for his life make it known that he hath seene the light much lesse walke in the same and wish others to follow him They seeme at this day to haue greater liberty to wound the church then any they had since the beginning of her Majesties raign and therfore ought the godly to enarme themselues against them now more then before They make vse of the time and the oportunity which they haue gotten to keepe the truth and the church in their bondage VVonder not at it for this is the very houre and power of darkenes wherein they haue liberty to do no more yet then the right hand of our God hath determined long before and when he hath accomplished his work in mount Sion and Ierusalem then let them and whosoeuer fauour any of the ofspring of Romish Babell their mother take heed vnto themselues In the beginning of her Majesties raign was the mouth of gods saints in England filled with laughter but aâ—asse these men labour to blot out all that ioy with the teares if not with the bloud of the church And in the meane time her Majesty wee are assured is ignorant of the right case of the murthering conclusions set vp against vs by these Tyrants Oh that it pleased the Lorde that our course might bee examined by her highnes and that she would not suffer both our judges and our accusers to condemne vs for those thinges whereof they shall neuer bee able to conuince vs with any colour If we must needs be persecuted yea and die for I see that the Prelates and their complices meane no otherwise to be satisfied then with the blotting out of our names from among men would to God yet wee might die by her hand that is beeing conuicted by her godlie lawes to deserue that which we are like to suffer For otherwise I perswade my selfe we should not be indamaged by her Majesty except we were found to bee gilty of punishment by the voyce of her good lawes The enemies haue long since endeuoured to prooue vs to be dangerous subjects and yet to this day we are ready to defie them vnto their faces and to maintaine our innocency both by the law of God and the laws of this kingdome Against which Tertullus the greatest Atheist cunningest lawier of all their crew was neuer able to prooue that we haue any waies offended How violently they wrest the lawes against vs their soules which I wish not shall find it The course which they haue taken to confute vs by writing hath beene so gainles vnto them that we neuer saw their third answer in the cause They haue indeed like men being driuen vnto a hole sometimes made an irruption vpon vs as they do daily in their Sermons but when it coms to passe that they must either stand vnto their cause or suffer the ouerthrow wee see not one of them that wil abide the third encounter And yet they cease not daily to discouer themselues although they bring no other furniture with them then that which hath bene battered and made vnseruiceable long since M. Bancroft hath beene one of the last aduersaries that wee haue seene and yet hath he furnished himselfe with no new artillery but onely was content to borrow those wherewith the Archbishop lost the field For he hath nothing in a maner against vs in his whole Sermon but such thinges as haue bin answered long ago by M. Cartwright yea his slaunders and all for the most part though he bee skilfull that way himselfe he hath borrowed either of D. VVhitgift or of Doctor Cosins in his answere to the Abstract therefore haue bene already confuted In consideration whereof I had thought him not worth the answering were it not that I did see the Lord to require at our handes the justifiyng of his truth as often as the same is called into question or any waies vnworthily handled There haue bene others I suppose that haue taken more paines with this inuectiue Sermon of his I haue therefore left place vnto them whosoeuer they are to publish that wherein they haue more fully and more largely discouered the euill and vnreasonable dealing of the Chaplaine I haue examined few or none of the testimonies of men brought in by him the aduantages which that way might be had against him I haue not taken both because I saw it not very material that he should be conuinced to abuse the writings of men who is not ashamed to offer iniurie vnto the holy scriptures of God and also for as much as it may be others will indite him for that false dealing of his If his cause be good he able to defend it with truth vpright dealing I haue shewed him the way
long before their time and were neuer in a manner taken out of the ground vntill this latter age And all that the fathers decreed at Nice besides the matter of Arrius which is but one branch of religion farre from a perfect confession of faith let any man read their Cannons as they are set downe either by Ruffinus Ruffi lib. 2 cap. 6. or in the first Tome of the councels and hee shall finde my wordes to bee most true The errours concerning free will and mans abilitie to fulfill the lawe deriued from Iustin the martyr and Irenaeus was at this time in some ripenes and yet the Nicene Councell tooke no order with these thinges as it may appeare by their writinges who liued in the ages following And though Augustine long after against the pelagians els where gaue free-wil a deaths wound yet notwithstanding wee knowe that euer since the Apostles time in a manner it flourished euery where vntill M. Luther tooke the sword in hand against it And by Maister Bancrofts reason the Papistes defending free-will against Maister Luther helde the better part For it may be thought a strange matter in the sight of M. Bancrofts popish eyes that eyther mans free will and abilitie to fulfill the law of God shoulde in our time be thought erroneous and to annihilate the vertue of Christs kingdome and priesthood or that the Lord in his word should establish a contrarie doctrine therunto for his Church to follow vnto his comming againe whereas the same was winked at or buried when by all mens confession the diuinitie of our Sauiour Christe These are M. Bantro words the vertue of his priesthood the power of his office as he is a prophet and the honour of his kingly authority was so godly so learnedly and so mightily established against the Arrians in the Councell of Nice c. So that if this argument bee good and forcible against the Church gouernement it is also powrfull to ouerthrowe the maine point of our iustification by faith besides manye other corruptions which were past ouer yea and established at that councell which is iustly accounted one of the soundest that the ancient times can affoord vnto vs. Paphnutius alone was enforced to stande vp against the whole Sinode in the cause of the marriage of Ministers which notwithstanding he being a man himselfe indued with the gift of continency so defended that hee would not haue him that were a Minister being vnmaried Zoromen lib. 1 cap. 23. euer after to be joyned with a wife These things and many such like together with M. Bancrofts iudgement of vs pag. 11. and his treatise of the going out of false Prophets page 11.12 13. I overpasse because I would be briefe Concerning the 4. causes yelded by him why false prophets goe out into the world we denie not but the contempt of the true gouernours of the Church ambition selfe loue and couetousnes do cary many away from the sinceritie of the truth nowe whether these doe beare sway in M. Bancroft and out Bishops let the worlde indge The place of Ierom touched pa. 14. vnto Euagruis shal be afterward spoken off D. BANCROFT page 17.18.19 20. But the story of Aerius is most pertinent to shew that ambition driueth men to be false Prophets Epiphanius doth report it thus in effect Eustathius and Aerius stroue one against another for a Bishopricke Lib. 3. Tom. 1. haeres 75. Eustathius obtained it whereat Aerius began to repine and grewe to bee a scismatike defending that by the word of God there was no difference betweene a Priest and a Bishop Hee vsed the same arguments that now are vsed of these that maintaine his opinions As that the Apostle writing sometimes to priests and deacon sometimes to Bishops and deacons shoulde thereby signifie that a Bishop and a priest is al one In conclusion Aerius after due tryal and examination had by the learned fathers who then liued of his arguments and sleight was by the generall consent of the Church overthrowne and condemned for an heretick And to this day there was neuer any but heretikes and such lewde persons that condemned the callings of Lord Bishops for Antichristian ANSVVERE There is nothing brought in here out of Epiphanius but it hath beene answered long since by M. Cartwright M. Cart. 2. reply 1. part page 68. and shewed to be the reason of Pighius an Archpapist against M. Wicklieffe and the waldenses it besemeth M. Bancroft very wel to borow the weapons of such a champion to fight against the truth But first M. Bancroft I woulde knowe what you can say against the person of Aerius touching the truth which he defendeth we wil deale afterward you answere that Epiphanis reckoneth him vp amongst hereticks and so you account of him Wherevnto I reply that Ierome dealeth with vigilantius after the same measure because vigilantius held it vnlaweful to pray for the dead Ierom ad Riparium contra vigi antium to worship the dead bones and reliques of Saints and defended marriage to bee preferred before virginnitie Wherein Ierome though otherwise a godly man doth rather bewray his immodest rashnes then any wise discredit Vigilantius with those that know the truth The same is to be sayd of Epiphanius and Aerius And indeede for any thing that Epiphanius and Pighius hath brought or you can bring against him he was an honester man than either Eustathius his competitor or Pighius and D. Bancroft his confutors Hee is said indeed to be an Arrian but that could neuer be prooued as yet and it was rather an action of slander rather commensed against him by his proud enemies the Bishops then any true accusation whereof he can be prooued gilty You cannot finde Looke Danaeus in August de haeres cap. 53. in the whole Ecclesiasticall story written by these that liued after him that euer there was any crime of heresie layde to his charge whereas Eustathius his schoolefellowe and aduersary is recorded by them as also by Epiphanius for a knowen and famous hereticke Touching Epiphanius though I will not call his name in question yet thus much I may truly speake of him that he was as the lerned know wel enogh so besotted with the corruptions of the times wherin he liued that his credite alone is not of sufficient authority to passe sentence against Aerius For the proofe hereof the reader is to vnderstand that hee condemneth Aerius for a black heretike as well because hee helde it vnlawfull to pray or to offer anie thing for the dead as in that hee defended a Bishop and a Priest as M. Bancroft speaketh to be of equall authoritie As for Augustine whom you bring with Epiphanius against this poore heretike hee rather followeth the receiued opinion thē his own iudgement of him according vnto truth This much touching the person of the man as for his heresie if he had noe other then those which Epiphanius layeth to his charge
that they who would bee taken for Leuites and gouernours of the holy Temple should haue a haÌ„d in this trespasse You haue streined your conscience to far I feare me in going about to make vp the credite of Bishop Coopers admonition to the people of England Page 24. A large conscience I perceiue hath along hand to reach a distinctioÌ„ a far of Let the reader consider the place If you set downe any thing that is Annabaptisticall or Popish it were meete you should confute it Page 25. least the simple auditors should take it for your own doctrine rather then other mens errours Nowe I come to that part of your Sermon where you deale concerning the triall of spirits D BANCROFT page 33. lin 26. pag. 34. lin 19. 41. lin 17. The popish false Prophets wil suffer the people to try nothing but teach them wholly to depend vppon them The giddy spirits woulde haue men to be everseeking and searching The meane therefore betwixt both these extremities I holde to be best And this it is that when you haue attained the true grounds of Christian Religion and are constantly built by a liuely faith vpon Iesus Christ 1. Cor. 3. being incorporated into his misâ—â—eal body by your baptisme and afterwards nourished with the Lords Supper you then content your selfe and seeke no farther c. ANSVVERE It is well known that wee allow neither popish norgiddy spirites no nor yet slaunderous and lying spirites As for the rule of the popishe false Prophets you haue squared your doctrine page 43. just according vnto the same as the reader shal perceiue in the proper place You haue plotted vs out heere such a meane betweene two extreamities as they must needes bee meane Christians that will go no further then the resting place which you haue set downe for them I will not say heere that the Papistes will graunt the miserable people vnder them leaue to goe thus far which is true but this I will say that this doctrine of yours tendeth wholly to remooue an able Ministerie out of the Church and so consequently to robbe the people both of the scepter of Christs gouernement and also of his word For if the people neede no more nay if it bee vnlawfull for them to go any further then to bee baptised and after they haue attained vnto the true groundes of Christian religion are engraffed into Christ to receiue the Lordes supper to what vse serueth the preaching of the word And to what end should the Apostle require Phil. 1.9.10 that the word of God should dwell plentifullie among Christians and pray that our loue maye abound more and more in knowledge Phil. 1.6 and in al feeling that we may discerne things that differ that we may bee pure and without offence vntill the day of Christ filled with the fruits of righteousnes c. If you could once M. Bancroft bring this meane of yours to take place then indeede might you place readers insteed of Preachers ouer the people without controllement and say that they need no other teaching because they are baptised engraffed into Christ and fed with the heauenly foode exhibited vnto them in the Lords Supper and what need they more For Tertullian saith Page 42. that we need not be curious after we haue apprehended Christ nor in quisitiue after we haue receiued the gospell But a miserable teacher are you that in such sort doe open a windowe vnto the deuill and mans corruption to breake faith into all impietie and wickednesse For how shall either the rage of sathan against vs or the rebellion of our owne corruptions within vs be restrained but by that mighty scepter of Christs word preached euen vnto vs that haue receiued the first fruits of the spirit If you had euer knowne what it had bene to receiue Christ truly and to retain him being receiued you would neuer haue endeuoured to seduce your auditors in this monstrous popish sort But because the light of your owne conscience doth tell you that christians cannot containe themselues within this prison wherein you haue shutte them You set downe a good supply of the want of teaching if men would desire to be resolued in anye matter of doubt your owne wordes or rather your popery I will set downe D. BANCROFT page 42. 43 line 24. God hath bound himselfe vnto his church of purpose that men by hir good direction Councels might in this point that is in maters of dout be relieued to whose godly determinatioÌ„ in maters of question her dutiful children ought to submit themselues without any curious or wilfull contradiction Neither can I see nowe that popery is bannished and the trueth of christian religioÌ„ is godly planted amongst vs why in these dais we shuld not attribute as much to the decrees of our learned fathers in their lawfull assemblies as other men in times past of as great iudgement as wee are haue done ANSVVERE You account the Papists to be false Prophets because they will suffer the people to trie nothing Page 33. but teach them wholly to depend vppon them you do wel in it But if this touching couÌ„cels be not to ioin hand with them in the point wherin you pretend to bee their aduersary if this be not to teach men to beleeue as their mother the church doth let the reader iudge The Bishop of Rome desireth no more to bee graunted vnto him for the authoritie of his councels theÌ„ you haue set down in expresse terms And if the Lorde hath bound himselfe by his promise vnto his Church of purpose that men should be directed therby I would demaund of you whether this promise was that the Church should direct them vnto truth or vnto errour If you say vnto truth otherwise it were no promise I demand then how the Church can erre For either the Lord must breake his promise if hee hath made any or els the Church cannot erre in the direction of her dutifull children Now if you say that the Church cannot erre the reader knoweth what account to make of you if she be subiect vnto errors to what end should we stand to her determination in matters of question any further then we are assured that her decrees are according vnto the word Now if it be lawfull for vs otherwise our bondage should bee intollerable to trie whether her determinations bee according vnto the word and to reiect them if they bee otherwise to what ende doe you carry vs from the sure foundacion of the worde vnto the vncertaine and vnconstant voice of the Church surely if you would know what I conceiue of you for this the like points of doctrine in your Sermon my opinion is that you are not far from a close papist how vehement so euer you speake against theÌ„ and whosoeuer they were that allowed your Sermon to be published they may iustly feare least the Papists doe ere it be long make too great
Bishop of Constantinople Theod. lib. 5. cap. 8. Where all these Bb. could bee gotten if Bb. and Ministers were not all one let M. Bancroft shew Lastly it would be knowne what account M. Bancroft maketh of that notable martyr M. Tindale M. Tindales works pag. 251. b. which speaking of priests and Bb. hath these words ther is presbyteros which same is saith he Acts. 20.28 imediatly after called a Bishop and in the same place all that were Elders or priests if they so will were called Bishops also though they haue deuided the name now I hope he will not answere him as hee doth Aerius that this opinion was condemned for an heresie long ago and none but heretikes and such leud persons euer since that time held it One thing I doe not a litle maruel at both in M. Bancroft and all the rest of his coat why they rather ioyne with Sir Thomas Moore and the papistes M. Tindals answer to Moore page 251. in calling the Ministers of the word priestes then with M. Tindale and the most sincere professours in the world at this day in abrogating that popishe name and vsing the worde Minister or Elder in the steade thereof Admon pa. 44. The B. of Winchester sayth that the Archbishop hath shewed sufficient reasons against T. C. why the Ministers of the gospell should bee called priests and all of them are of the same opinion and will not take it patiently if they be gainsaid in it but what account is to be made of them for this labor 〈…〉 shal learne out of M. Tindale page 14. 4. who in his obedience of a Christian man sayth that the worde Sacerdos should haue had another name in english then priest but that Antichrist hath deceiued vs with vnknowne and strange termes to bring vs into superstitious blindnes as for the word presbyteros saith he both in this place and against Moore in the place aboue cited it ought in English to bee translated Elder This I thought good to admonish the reader least hee should thinke mee in vsing the woorde priest to allowe of that Antichristian name Whether M. Cartwright hath truly alleadged Ignatius and others To the 98. pag. to prooue the vse and practise of the office of Elders in the Church long after the Apostles time because there is nothing but the pawn of M. Bancrofts credite brought to the contrary I referre the reader to examine the testimonies vsed by M. Cartwright for that purpose T. C. 1. reply 145. Especially the place of Ierome vpon Isaiah who saith that they had also the presbitery or eldership in the church and that of Ambrose vpon the 1. Tim. cap. 5. where he complaineth that through the pride slouthfulnes of the Doctors the Elders were worn out of the Church were it not that M. Chaplain carrieth his license in his bosome to speake what hee will I should wonder that he durst in open pulpit and writing deny elders to be in the church long after the Apostles time seeing D. Whitgift telleth vs of his owne knowledge that in the Primitiue Churche they had in euerie church certaine seniors to whome the gouernment of the congregation was committed Whit. pag. 638. M. Bancroft seeth there is no aduantage in granting any part of the truth and therefore hee taketh a round course to deny euery thing without more a doo Take his aduantage thereof who list His profanenes Page 98. in calling the Elders Aldermen the Lord I feare will reuenge who cannot abide to haue the officers of his kingdome derided and scoffed at by any Lucian whosoeuer Your caueling with the proofes To the 100.111 brought in by M. Cartwright to shew the Eldershippe to be most flowrishing in Constantines time iâ— a proofe that you retaine your vsuall boldnesse in out facing the truth If it bee not a good reason to say that because there were infinite numbers of Bishops and Elders at the councel of Nice therefore the Eldership was in a flowrishing estate at that time to what purpose should they be present in that synod if they had nothing to do with the gouernement of the church If they had to do with the gouernment of the church the reason holdeth most forcible to prooue the Eldership to be vp vnder Constantine For wheresoeuer there is a Church gouernement by Bishops and Elders there the Eldership is in force Though wee should graunt Page 101. that you deale truly with Eusebius yet his testimony is not a whit the weaker to proue the gouernment by the Eldership because he meaneth nothing els but to shew the great appearaunce from all places of the Cleargie men of all sortes in that assemblie Eor beit that his onely purpose was to shewe this great concourse of Cleargy men yet that hindereth not but hee speaking of Bishops and elders met at the said Synod we may thence gather Bishops and Elders did gouerne the church at that that time That Bishoppes had large jurisdiction before the Nicene councel is onely affirmed M Cart. 2. reply pag. 557.560 c. and not prooued by you M. Bancroft the contrary hath bene shewed It is your manner to build vpon false grounds which haue beene long since ouerthrone The appointing of Metropolitans or confirming whether you will at the councell of Nice hindered not the gouernement of the Eldership to be in force They had not such an vnruly jurisdiction as the Archbishops doe vsurpe The fifth Canon of the councell whereby it is decreed that the disorders of the church should bee compounded at the prouinciall assemblies not by that Metropolitans shew what smal authority they had They had but their owne suffrages as euery other minister had That which the councell of Nice attributed vnto them was no more then chiefe place in the meetinges Ibid. pag. 562. Aunswere that which M. Cartwright hath written in this question and then set downe your bolde conclusion otherwise the reader will deride your boldnes in pitching a campe of torne assertions whereof not one will be granted vnto you Faine would you I see haue the people not to giue eare vnto vs To the 103 104. page and to that purpose you bring vp to them the reasons that al Atheists haue for them selues whie they wil not embrace the true religion And that is because the professors thereof cannot agree among them selues The godly are not ignorant that there must bee scismes in the Church of God and therefore cannot stumble at the diuisions among vs â—â—i if they bee any Wee haue learned of the blessed Apostle to bee so farre from agreeing with any saue only in the truth as we hold our selues bound to bid battel vnto at the Angels iâ— heauen if they stand against the same Our breaches would bee easily made vp Pag if you woulde yeald the Church her right As for your side it is wel knowne howe little you agree saue only in the mayne drift whereat you must al shoot or els you shal soone fal to the ground And that is in standing against the truth Tot 111. maintaining outragious coruptions I haue alredy noted that you in this short inuectiue against vs haue twise scratched the Archbishop by the face and that in matters of waight The 3. last pages of his Sermon contain nothing in them but generall exhortations that the people would cleaue vnto the truth without wauering the which wee earnestly entreat all men to doe as they would bee saued in the day of the Lorde And from our hearts we wish if it be the Lords will both vnto them and to all our aduersaries and perticularlie vnto M. Bancroft that immortall crowne of glorie whereof he speaketh in the last page desiring them and him notwithstanding to call to minde that neither lyers Page 1 nor those that delight in lies especially against gods truth and his church shall euer be partakers thereof