being reduced to a bare external profession Would God have sent us a new Jerusalem a new Sion a new City from above and make this up of Righteous and Wicked Hypocrites and true Believers indifferently Does not the Apostle understand it so when he says that Jerusalem is free that her children are not in bondage i. e. those who are the Children by promise that they shall not be cast out like Children of the bondwoman but shall be Heirs and that there is the same difference between this and the other Jerusalem that was between the two Wives of Abraham Sarah and Agar Would God make him a new Tabernacle a new House a new Temple and build it of holy and profane materials indifferently St. Peter did not intend it so You says he as lively stones are built up a spiritual house Would God separate to himself a new people a new Israel a new Nation from all other Nations and require from it no more than an outward profession which alone works no regeneration at all To shew that God himself never intended this observe how himself speaks This shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days saith the Lord I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts and will be their God and they shall be my people We must take notice that all these names above mentioned are derived from the old figures of the Mosaical dispensation this the very reading of them plainly testifies Now this very thing makes directly against M. de Condom's definition For as it is essential to a figure to consist of something External and Corporeal so is it equally essential to the thing figured to consist of something Internal and Spiritual The Church therefore is no longer a Jerusalem an Israel a people linked together by outward bands only this would correspond well enough with the figures of the old Law but it is a people an Israel a Jerusalem united and compacted by the inward hands of the same Faith and the same Sanctification This very term the Church is of it self sufficient to confirm this truth M. de Condom acknowledges the Christians had it from the Jews which is true He says the Jews made use of it to signify the visible Society of God's people the Assembly which makes profession to serve him I agree with him in that too He adds That the Christians have kept it in the same sense I am not of that opinion This word when applied to the figure can signify no more than a visible outward Assembly but when to the thing figured it must of necessity imply something more it must denote an inward community a company not of Bodies only but Souls too for it is not enough that a confession be made with the mouth men must also believe with the heart unto Righteousness III. This will be yet more evident if you reflect on some other applelations given to the Church with relation to Jesus Christ For it is called His flock his sheep his spouse his sister his dove his well-beloved his body a Body whereof He is the head a Body that is his flesh and his bones a house built upon him as upon a Corner-stone the sanctified in Jesus Christ the Children which God hath given him and other expressions like these Now who can ever imagine these glorious Titles should import no more than an outward profession or that profane persons and reprobates can have any share in them It is his flock but what flock Fear not little flock for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom They are his sheep but how My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me And I give unto them eternal life and they shall never perish neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand It is his Spouse and his Sister but in what respect Thou hast ravished my heart my sister my spouse thou hast ravished my heart It is his Dove but why his Dove My dove my undefiled is but one the daughters saw her and blessed her She is his well-beloved but Wherefore his Well-beloved As the lilly among therns so is my beloved among the daughters It is his Body but how his body The edifying of the body of Christ till we all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of God unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ He is its Head but what sort of Head From him the whole body fitly joyned together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth maketh increase of the body to the edifying of it self in love It is his flesh and his bones but how these No man ever hateth his own flesh but nourisheth and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church It is a structure built upon him but how In him all the building fitly framed together groweth into an holy temple in the Lord. They are the sanctified in Jesus Christ but how sanctsied They are such as in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord. They are the Epistle of Jesus Christ but in what regard the Epistle Written not with Ink but with the spirit of the living God not in tables of stone but in fleshy tables of the heart It is his People but what kind of people Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power in the beauties of holiness They are the Children which God hath given him But wherefore were they given him To exhibit them one day saying Behold I and the children which thou hast given me Thou hast given me power over all flesh that I should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given me Can any man after all this grant that the Church should be defined A Society making profession to believe c. or imagine that Hypocrites belong to this mystical Divine Body IV. If we search the Scripture yet further we shall find other Arguments in confirmation of this Truth Among these I reckon the predictions concerning the Church of Christ to be met with in the Prophets Thus it is described by Moses The Lord thy God will circumcise thy heart and the heart of thy seed to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul that thou mayest live There shall be saith Isaiah a high-way and a way it shall be called the way of holiness the unclean shall not pass over it but it shall be for those the wayfaring men tho fools shall not err therein No lion shall be there nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon it shall not be found there but the redeemed shall walk there And in another place All thy children shall be taught of the Lord and great shall be the peace of thy children In righteousness
purify her that she may be a peculiar people zealous of good works He will build her upon himself to be an holy Temple an habitation of God through the spirit He will wrde his laws in their hearts and engrave them in their minds He will take away the heart of stone and give them an heart of flesh a new heart and a new spirit How is it possible that nothing of all this should surprise the Doctors of the Romish Communion nor stagger their confidence of finding these Promises fulfilled as well in the bad as the good the just as well as unjust For in short if wicked men who have no more than external profession become by virtue of that profession really and truly Members of the Church the Promises concern them and they have a right to them in common with others for certainly they concern as many as make up the Body of Christ Now shall we say that notwithstanding these are drowned in vice Yet the Gates of Hell shall never prevail against them provided they can but counterfeit dexterously Shall we say that tho gangrened and putrified from the crown of the head to the sole of the foot it matters not They shall be without spot or wrinkle holy and without blemish so they do but continue in an external profession Shall we say that tho they have no Faith no Justice no Piety they need not trouble themselves Jesus Christ will be with them alway by the presence of his Holy Spirit provided they can but maintain a fair outside Shall we say that although they prostitute themselves to all wickedness and villany they need not be so much concerned Jesus Christ will not fail to redeem them from all iniquity and to make of them a peculiar people zealous of good works provided they be not wanting in dissimulation Here is no invidious aggravation in all this The Promises of Christ are plain matters of fact delivered expresly in Scripture in favour of the Church The defining of the Church by a bare external profession is another plain matter of fact to be seen through all the Writers of that Communion and particularly this discourse of M. de Condom The applying these Promises to the Church thus defined is what M. de Condom stitly contends for and makes it an inducement to peoples conversion So that I do not in the least exaggerate nor do I see what reply they can make To talk of two true Churches even in Christ's sight one to which the Promises belong as such viz. That of True Believers and another to which they do not belong as such viz. That whose essence consists in the external profession besides that it would be advancing a notion contrary to Scripture and Reason which inform us but of one true Church would be to argue to no purpose for wherefore should we argue about a Church to which the Promises of Jesus Christ have no relation Why should we invest with such glorious and divine priviledges a Church to which Christ hath promised nothing at all Or what reason have we with a blind obedience to submit to a Church where it may happen that wicked men and Enemies of God may get the upper hand and the Spirit of Christ bear no Rule in it To say we ought to distinguish between two kinds of Promises one such as respect inward Sanctification and Salvation the other respecting the perpetual Visibility of the Ministry and its Infallibility in the external profession of the Truth and that the first sort are peculiar to the Elect and true Believers in the Church but the other belong to the whole Body of that Society making Profession besides that this would be to start a Division of the Promises which the Scripture divided not for all made there are made to one and the same Body to one and the same Church without distinction besides that this would be to frame Promises that never were given such as a perpetual Infallibility of the Ministry in the external Profession of the Truth as we lately saw Besides this I say it is plainly to suppose that the Church as a Church hath no promises made her of Sanctification and Salvation and so consequently 't is to oppose Scripture which makes them to her formally under the name and title of a Church The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against my Church says Christ Christ loved the Church says St. Paul and gave himself for it that he might sanctifie it and present it to himself a glorious Church having neither spot nor wrinkle nor any such thing but that it should be holy and without blemish The Lord says the Apostle nourishes and cherishes the Church all these Promises imply Sanctification and Salvation What can we then with reason say to this matter except what was said upon the foregoing Question to wit That we sometimes form an Idea of the Church by a Judgment of Charity so looking upon all external Professors in general to be true Believers and by this Judgment we include in our Notion abundance of People who really and indeed are not of the Church and consequently have no title to the Promises of Jesus Christ But this Notion is rectified by a Judgment of Reflection Exactness and Truths formed from the Idea's which Scripture and right Reason give us of the true Church restraining it to true Believers only and that the Promises of Scripture must be applyed to it in this last true exact Notion only Add to this that this true Church being intermixt with the counterfeit is not indeed so distinctly visible that we can say with certainly this or that particular man is a true Believer for this is proper to God alone but that it is however visible in a sure though indistinct manner which will go so far as to affirm That there are true Pelievers in such an external Profession Add further that this Church thus visible becomes more or less so according as Corruptions and Disorders are more or less predominant in their exteriour Society and that sometimes it is mightily celipsed partly through the prevalence of worldly superstitious and such like Persons partly through the infirmities of most true Believers but still that it never was absolutely invisible Add once more that this Church now upon Earth together with that in Heaven and that which shall spring up in succeeding Ages are all three that Vniversal Church we profess to believe in our Creed Add I say these three last Propositions to the two foregoing and so you will comprise all I have advanced hitherto you will be furnished with certain uncontestable Principles grounded upon Scripture upon Reason upon the Fathers and upon experience by the help of which you will be able with great ease to throw off all those difficulties usually started by the Romanists upon this Subject This will be further evidenced by what I am in the next place about to say Natural and necessary Consequences of the
person to understand the true meaning of Scripture better than the whole body of the Church Tell me now Sir whether according to this principle this Child be not obliged always to abide within that Heretical or Schismatical Church Tell me what means you will contrive for him to get out of it It is evident then that your principle would serve as well to continue a Jew in his Judaism a Pagan in his Heathenism and a Heretick in his Heresy as an Orthodox Christian in the true Church To this M. de Condom replied that in the perswasion of that Aethiopian Child we must make a difference between that part which proceeded from the Holy Spirit and that which is the effect of prejudice and humane prepossession That the Holy Spirit 's dictate was in general that there was a Catholick Church somewhere or other but his supposal that the Church in which he was born was that Catholick Church proceeded from humane prepossession It is true he did from this Church receive the Scriptures and belived them to be Divine for no other reason but upon its Authority But afterwards as he was reading the Scriptures the Holy Ghost raised in him some scruples about the Church he was born in and by this means he came off from the Heresy and Schism he found himself insnared in Mr. Claude returned that M. de Condom must of necessity either retract his principle or confess what he now alledged to be utterly impossible Because this Aethiopian neither can nor must be allowed to understand the Scriptures any otherwise than in the sense and interpretation of his own Church by whose Authority it is that he believes them to be Divine and from whose hands he receives their meaning so that when he reads Scripture there can never start up any scruples in his mind against the truth of his own Church because he never expounds any Text of Scripture but in agreement with the sense of that Church about it Now if on the other side your meaning be that this person expounds Scripture of his own head and according to his own judgment so taking it in a sense different from that of the Church you at the same time make him forego the principle that you have all this while been contending for and it is not you only that make him forego it but you do besides maintain that the Holy Ghost himself makes him forego it and all those mighty inconveniences you exclaimed against vanish into nothing He added moreover that what M. de Condom said last justified the measures the Protestants had taken in relation to the Church of Rome for altho that had been believed to be the Catholick Church in the time of our Infancy tho we had received the Scriptures from her and believed them to be of Divine Authority yet must we not be blamed for making a difference between that part of this belief which proceeded from the Holy Ghost and that which was the effect of humane Prepossession and Prejudice We cannot be found fault with for having admitted some Scruples against the Truth of this Church as we read the Scriptures and for having upon this accout withdrawn our selves from her Communion M. de Condom said the Cases did still differ in this circumstance That the Ethiopian when he left his own would betake himself to the Catholick Church whereas the Pretended Reformed have not put themselves into any other Communion at all You courted indeed Jeremy's the Patriarch of Constantinople but he would have nothing to do with you The separation was not from our selves said Mr. Claude and that is enough to shew that we have not separated from the true Church If Jeremy the Patriarch of Constantinople would have nothing to do with us as you say that was to his own loss and he did not do as he should have done in it Upon this the Company rose and the Conference which lasted some time longer grew a great deal more confused several things were then spoken of M. de Condom exaggerated much and pretended to draw a parallel between the separation of the Protestants and that of the old Hereticks particularly the Arrians and Macedonians that set up new Churches by themselves Mr. Claude compared the Protestants behaviour to that of Christ's Apostles when they separated from the Jews that as the Apostles relied on Scripture against the Jews who relied upon Ecclesiastical Assemblies and their Authority the Protestants did the same against the Church of Rome He said the Arrians maintained that the Consubstantiality of the Son of God determined by the Nicene Council was a Novel Doctrine and that many other persons had in truth exprest themselves very unadvisedly concerning the Divinity of the Son among others he instanced in Origea Justin Martyr and the Council of Antioch As for Origen M. de Condom said he was a suspected Author and the Council of Antioch said he was an Arrian Council to which Mr. Claude replied that he was much mistaken for that Council was held before Arrius his time and yet rejected the Term Consubstantial As to Justin Martyr How Sir said he a Martyr speak amiss of the Divinity of the Son of God! I will never believe a word on 't You may believe what you think sit Sir said Mr. Claude but for all that the thing is even so Afterwards M. de Condom put himself upon the Invocation of Saints and Prayers for the Dead For the first of these he told them Mr. Daille had allowed it to be Thirteen hundred years old and Mr. Blondell acknowledged the second to be of great Antiquity Mr. Claude replied it was no great wonder if the Church of Rome which had collected and Cononized the Errors and Superstitions of former Ages had picked up some that were of a good old standing But he ought to have said withal that Mr. Daille had made it appear that for Three hundred years together there was not to be found the least footsteps of Invocation of Saints and especially that there was not any manner of ground for it in Scripture That he acknowledged Prayer for the Dead to be one of the oldest superstitions but there was a mighty difference between the practice of the Primitive Christians and the modern devotions of the Romish Church And after all it was an Error contrary to the principles of Scripture M. de Condom betook himself again to the Comparison between the Protestants and Hereticks of old inferring from thence that they and their Church was new and upstart Mr. Claude shewed him that this prejudice was extremely unjust and of very pernicious consequence Unjust because on one hand it placed the advantage on the strongest side and those that have most of their party whereas the Scripture teaches us quite contrary That we must not follow a multitude to do evil For the strongest side are continually taxing others with making a new Body and a new Church Unjust secondly because a false Antiquity may be
words in Anastasius that the See was vacant six days But this is a very idle story There is not any Author mentions this voluntary resignation of Vigilius nor his being chosen in again by the Clergy of Rome as is pretended 't is all a pure fancy of Baronius without any manner of probability for it and the five or six days which the See continued vacant are to be understood to follow not Sylverius his death but the time of his being deposed by Belisarius illegally and by force who took away his Pallium and compelled him to resume a Monks habit He lived after that a year in exile in the Island of Palmenia there he excommunicated Vigilius and his faction to wit the Clergy of Rome that very Clergy which chose Vigilius to succeed him so that the Excommunication being just and valid as Baronius owns it was we cannot look upon Vigilius and his Clergy and all the Bishops in the World then any otherwise than as men degraded and cut off from the Church And then according to M. de Meaux's principles there was no way left but for Christ to come into the World once more to re-establish the call to the Ministry The truth of what I assert may be tryed a third way in that Principle of the supreme Authority and Infallibility of Councils and the blind implicit obedience they pretend is due to them For supposing this Principle to take place the Church of Rome hath ceased to be a true Church long ago I shall not here produce all those Councils heretofore that decreed in favour of Arrianism such as that of Antioch of Sardica or of Philippi that of Milan of Sirmium of Arimini of Seleucia or of Constantinople I will not instance in the second Council of Ephesus where the Bishop of Rome's Legates assisted which establisht the Eutychian Heresy nor that of Diospolis which acquitted Pelagius the Heretick Nor will I speak of those which have at several times determined things directly contradictory to one another in the matter of Images such as the Council of Constantinople under Constantine Copronymus the second Council of Nice under the Empress Irene the Council of Franckfort under Charlemagne and the Council of Paris under Lewis the Debonaire Nor will I insist upon the Councils held in the Tenth Age which contradicted one another upon this question whether Formosus could be lawfully preferred to the Papacy contrary to his Oath which a Pope had dispensed with and whether all the persons ordained by him ought not to be reordained Without troubling our selves with things so far off we need only desire these Gentlemen to tell us if they really and sincerely believe these few late Councils to be infallible That of Rome under Gregory the seventh where Baronius says it was determined That the Pope hath power to depose Emperors and Kings That what he hath once determined no man can afterwards bring to a rehearing but that he alone can rehear and alter the determinations of all other persons That he cannot be judged by any man whatever That he may absolve the Subjects of wicked Princes from their Oaths of Allegiance That of Lateran under Alexander the Third which relèases Subjects from their Oaths of Allegiance which they have sworn to their Governors if those Governors hold any correspondence with Hereticks That of Lateran under Innocent the third which enjoyns That if Temporal Princes neglect to root out Hereticks there shall be notice given of it to the Pope that so the Pope may pronounce their Subjects absolved from their Oaths of Allegiance and dispose of their Countries to Catholicks who may discharge their duty better That of Lyons under Innocent the fourth which deposed the Emperor Frederick the Second released his Subjects from their Oaths of Allegiance and forbid them upon penalty of being Anathematized to acknowledg or obey him That of Constance which in the Bull of Martin the fifth containing the Clause de sacro approbante Concilio subjects not only Patriarchs Archbishops and Bishops but even Kings and other supreme Governors of what quality soever they be to the judgment of the Inquisitors even to a deprivation from their honours and all other worldly possessions That of Lateran under Leo the Tenth which sets the Pope's Authority above that of Councils directly contrary to what was defined by the Council of Constance with the approbation of Pope Martin the Fifth and to the Council of Basil with the approbation of Pope Eugenius the Fourth In a word the endeavouring to assert that Councils are infallible and giving them such an Authority as supercedes all examination is so bold an undertaking that many eminent persons in the Church of Rome it self thinking it could never be effected have not scrupled to declare for the other opinion Among these was the famous Abbot of Palerma principal of the Canonists whose words are so very considerable that I cannot omit repeating them I am of opinion says he that if the Pope have better reasons and better authorities than the Council he ought to stick to his own judgment For the Council may and sometimes actually has erred as particularly in the case of a Ravishers marrying with the woman on whom the Rape was committed Saint Jerom's opinion was preferred before the Decree of a Council because it was really better For in matters of Faith a single private mans judgment ought to be preferred before the Pope's if this private judgment be grounded upon better reasons taken out of the Old and New Testament It signifies nothing to alledg the Council cannot err because Jesus Christ hath prayed for his Church that it fail not In answer to this I say that although a General Council do indeed represent the Church universally yet it is plain the Vniversal Church is not there really but only by way of representation For the Vniversal Church is made up of the company of all the Faithful so that they are the Faithful throughout the whole world that constitute the Church Vniversally of which Christ is the Head and the Spouse The Pope is Christs Vicar but he is not truly the Head of the Church And this Church it is that cannot err Thus then it may so happen that the true Faith of Christ may continue entire in a single person and then the true Faith would not fail in the Church as the right of a Community may be preserved in a single member of it See now what the force of truth made one of the greatest Doctors of his Age say The Catholick Church in his opinion consists only of the Faithful it is of them only that Christ is the Head and the Spouse to them alone he hath promised that they shall abide for ever Councils may represent the Church but it does not follow from thence that they are the Church They may fall into Errors The true Church which refuses to fall with them may subsist in a very few and these
few by preserving the true Faith will also preserve all the Priviledges of Jesus Christs Church All this is exactly what we assert in this case The Abbot of Palermo's opinion was likewise common to many of the Schools Occam a famous Doctor among the Schoolmen of the fourteenth Age hath composed a Dialogue on this Subject where among other questions he discusses these six principal ones 1. Whether a Pope that is Canonically chosen can afterwards turn Heretick 2. Whether the Colledg of Cardinals may fall into Heresie 3. Whether it be possible for the Pope and Cardinals together to fall into it 4. Whether it be so for the Church of Rome and Apostolick See to fall into it 5. Whether a General Council may fall into it 6. Whether even the Body of Christians may fall into it He affirms that as many held the Negative in these Points so there were a great many too that held the affirmative and he gives you the reasons urged by both sides for their several opinions I know very well that he was engaged in that silly quarrel between John the 22 d and the Franciscan Friers which took up almost the whole life of that Pope to know whether the Friers had any proper right to the bread they eat or only the bare use of it and whether Jesus Christ and his Apostles had likewise any proper right to the things they used But this is no argument why such an Authors Testimony should not be unexceptionable when he asserts as matter of fact that the six forementioned questions were disputed pro and con among the Learned men of his time There is likewise a testimony of John Francis Picus Mirandula which flourished in the beginning of the Fifteenth Age which he gives us in his Theoremes concerning the Faith After having said something to their opinion who make either a Pope or a Council Infallible he adds these words Others there are that oppose this opinion by saying that Councils may err and actually bave erred as for instance the Council of Arimini the second Council of Ephesus that of Constantinople concerning Images and that of Aix la Chapelle about the marriage of Virgins that were forced And if these say they have erred others may err as well as they whereupon some hold that such General Councils as the Pope does not preside in by his Authority may err but those where he does cannot To which others return that the Council of Ephesus was lawfully convened that the Pope's Legates presided in it and yet the Faith was subverted there and the regulation of this very matter was it that moved Pope Leo to call the Council of Chalcedon They say further that their pretending to find out remedies for knowing when two Councils clash whether of the two a man ought to hold to is an evident sign that General Councils may err It is certain then that the Doctrine we now assert when we affirm that even the most numerous Assemblies are liable to error that they may consist of such men as shall not be of the true Church and consequently may fall off from their function is neither a new Doctrine nor any opinion we are driven to for the justfying our Reformation but an old Doctrine which the evidence of Truth hath always suggested to sincere and unbiassed men So that if M. de Meaux had but pleased to reflect a little upon this he would not have said as he did That it was a Monster the birth whereof was reserved for the time of the New Reformation It is convenient sometimes to be a little more advised and sparing in passing ones judgment It would questionless be very foul to conclude form what hath been just now said against the absolute Authority and Infallibility of Ecclesiastical Assemblies that we quite cast off all these humane Orders for the external guidance and government of the Church To six any such opinions as this upon us would be the unjustest thing in the world Our Confessions of Faith our Discipline and the Writings of our Authors as well as our constant practice in all places are a vindication of us in this particular beyond all scruple or exception First then we hold the Ministry to be of Divine Institution and consequently become necessary by the necessity of a Command and that tho the use of it is not absolutely necessary by the necessity of the means for the Existence of the Church it is however of such excellent use and advantage in order to the preserving and propagating of the Church that to go about to take it away would be a manifest impiety Secondly We are of opinion that in matters of Discipline relating to the publick such as the manner and form of Religious Assemblies of Administring the Sacraments and others of this kind these should be left to the determination of Ecclesiastical Assemblies and provided they bring in no Rite offensive to the Conscience or contrary to the nature of the Evangelical Worship an absolute obedience is due to them Further yet We allow these Ecclesiastical Assemblies a power of Censuring private persons and proceeding to the last and highest Censure that of Excommunication And although we make no question at all but this power may sometimes be abused by them and unjust sentences pronounced yet we think that out of veneration for the Order a man ought to suffer such to be executed upon him provided this do not engage us in any thing that may wound a good conscience As for matters of Faith Worship and general Rules for ordering mens Manners we are perswaded that these Assemblies continuing the subordination to one another may not only attain to the knowledg of them by the Word of God but that they must and ought to do so for preventing the encrease of error and the preserving Gods truth in its genuine purity It is part of their office and business to restrain the exorbitances of mens minds to help the weak and to the utmost of their power cherish and maintain publick peace in the midst of this Society But because on one hand the persons making these Assemblies are neither inspired nor infallible nor have any power over mens consciences and on the other hand because no body can be sure that they are good men and will discharge their duty faithfully there being so many several sorts of by-respects that influence men when the Spirit of God does not guide them we think it a very faulty indifference and a manifest slighting a man's own salvation to reveive their decisions blindfold and upon trust without any trial or examination of them at all But still though we think this examination highly just and indispensably necessary yet we think withal it is to be used with abundance of caution Besides that it must be undertaken in the fear of God and with a disposition full of modesty and Christian humility besides that we must beg for grace from above and not presume upon our own
about to make Converts they ought 〈…〉 pretence of saving them a little trouble to decline any instructiâ—â—◠〈◊〉 may be necessary for their satisfaction and being perswaded 〈…〉 Church of Rome's pretensions are just should not fear to have the Grounds of them examined but suppose they will be found strong and impregnable How comes it to pass then that M. de Condom was pleased to pass by so fundamental a Question And how could be satisfy himself with barely propounding his definition and saying only that This was what all Christians understand by the name of a Church However I shall be bold to say that this is neither all nor indeed the main part of what Christians do or ought to understand by it and that his definition is defective by at least one half to which therefore I shall oppose another which I assert to be what all Christians ought to understand by the name of Church viz. A Society of such persons as making profession to believe the Doctrine of Jesus Christ do truly and effectually believe it and making profession to govern themselves by his word do really and effectually govern themselves by it Our business now is to know which of these two is a good and lawful definition whether that given us by M. de Condom in agreement with the Doctors of his Communion or this of mine in agreement with all Protestants That is to say we are concerned to know whether the nature and essence of the Church consist barely in externals and appearances or whether something of reality be not required whether Hypocrisy and superficial Cheats can make men true members of the Church or whether something of truth be not necessary also to know whether wicked men worldlings and reprobates provided they make an outward profession and can but dissemble handsomely are real members of Christ's mystical body or whether this priviledge do not belong to those that are truly the Faithful Here lies the pinch of the Question which in my opinion would have resolved it self had but M. de Condom propounded it fairly For methinks 't is very hard to acquiesce so far in his definition But not to insist on this first prejudice let us examine the matter throughly I. The Scripture represents the Church to us as the product and execution of God's eternal decree of Predestination or Election and besides it teaches us that God in electing and predestinating men does it not to a mere outward profession of Faith and Holiness but to an effectual Faith and true Holiness And consequently effectual Faith and Holiness are of the nature and essence of the Church and not an outward profession only The consequence is manifest For the best way to discover the nature and essence of any thing is to take it according to its own Author's first Idea and design supposing that he does not as we are all agreed God does not swerve at all from his design in the execution of it The Church then being God's own work the surest means to discern what that is will be to inform our selves of God's design if we can but find out that Now this we find in the Election Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ says St. Paul in the name of the whole Church who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ According as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world And a little after He gathers together in one all things in Christ both which are in heaven and which are in earth even in him In whom we have obtain'd an inheritance being predestinated according to the purpose of him c. To this relates that saying of Christ I pray not for the world but for them which thou hast given me for they are thine Where by opposing the world for which he does not pray to those whom his father had given him 't is plain he understands the Church and his meaning is that the Father hath given them to Jesus Christ because it was his by his purpose of Election This appears further from the words that immediately follow And all mine are thine and thine are mine for this mutual reciprocation of Good between his Father and Him if I may so term it is capable of no other sense but this in the sequel of his discourse My Church are thine Elect and thy Elect are my Church they who are mine as my people are thine as thy Elect my Communion and thy Election have the same measures the same extent and do both comprehend the same persons So that the Election is nothing else but God's design and project of the Church and the constituting of a Church is the putting that design of Election in Execution Blessed says David is the man whom thou chusest and causest to approach unto thee that he may dwell in thy courts These Courts are the Church of God and men enter into them only by vertue of God's Election God hath saved us says the Apostle and called us with an holy calling not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began We must therefore come to the knowledg of the Church by his Eternal purpose and to know that we must consult his Holy Word He hath chosen us says St. Paul that we should be holy and without blame before him in love Having predestinated us to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself and that we should be to the praise of the glory of his grace He does not say a bare profession of Holiness but a real Holiness he does not say an appearance of adoption but a true adoption he does not say an external conversion but an internal That is such as may illustrate the glory of God God hath predestinated us to a true Faith and not an appearance of Faith to a sincere and substantial Regeneration not to a shadow or colour of it 'T is past a doubt then that a mere outward profession cannot give us a full definition of the Church but true Faith and Regeneration are necessary parts of the Idea we have of it II. The Scripture when speaking of the Church with reference to God gives it such appellations as can by no means be restrain'd to a more profession or allow us to think it can be composed of wicked persons It calls the Church Jerusalem which is above the Heavenly Jerusalem the City of the living God the Holy Hill of Sion the Israel of God A Holy Nation a peculiar people the inheritance of God the habitation of God through the spirit the house of God the temple of God His holy Priesthood His spiritual house His royal Priesthood His purchased possession the people of God Tell me now I pray if the energy of these expressions is not admirably answered by
band and that which constitutes the Church we are driven to maintain one of these three things Either that such a profession does confer the spirit of Christ Or without Christ's spirit one may still be his Or that the things which make it to be a Church do not yet make it to be Christ's The first of these would be absurd For what more so than to assert ' That a bare profession of Christianity confers the Spirit of Christ At this rate every Hypocrite is a partaker of that Holy Spirit The second That one without Christ's Spirit may still be his directly contradicts Saint Paul's assertion which positively declares That he who hath not Christ's Spirit is not his And for the third That the things which make it to be a Church do not yet make it to be Christ's it may be M. de Condom may not like this himself I for my part look upon it as a very strange position For can one say that what precisely constitutes the Church does not make it Christ's This is as much as to say that the Church is not his Body nor his Spouse nor his well-beloved nor any of all those things the Scripture calls it In a word 't is to say that it is not considered in this quality any part of his concern If M. de Condom frame to himself such a Church as this let him at least give us leave to enquire why he does afterwards appropriate the promises to it For what right can the Church have to these if as such it be not Christ's nor hath Communion with him These two Propositions are evidently destructive of one another If the Church as such be not Christ's it has no share in his promises if it hath then it is his as a Church Let him chuse which he please if the first our Controversie is at an end for to what purpose should we disspute of a Church which he says is Jesus Christ's and yet is not his nor hath any title to the promises If the second let him not talk any more of a Church considered as such being constituted by a bare outward profession For this not conferring Christ's Spirit cannot make the Church his or if it can St. Paul does not say true when he tells us expresly That if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his IX The sundry passages of Scripture concerning Hypocrites who cloak themselves with such an outward profession abundantly prove them not to be of Christ's Church He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkness And a little after In this the children of God are manifest and the children of the Devil whosover doth not righteousness is not God neither he that loveth not his brother Again afterwards He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is love St. Jude speaking of these Hypocrites calls them Spots in our feasts of charity clouds without water trees without fruit twice dead plucked up by the Roots Jesus Christ himself says In the last day he will profess unto them he never knew them What colour then have we for making such members of the Church which is Christ's Body But that place of St. John removes all the difficulty They went out from us but they were of us for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us but that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us What a plain difference is here made between being among us and being of us being among us is proper for Hypocrites that are mixed with the Faithful and joyn in the same profession Being with us is sincerely and truly to be of the Church for which something more than an outward profession is requisite X. We read in Scripture of a twofold Call one by the meer Preaching of the Word commonly termed an outward Call the other by the Preaching of the Word and the Holy Spirit both stiled an inward Call Of the first our Saviour speaks when he says Many are called but few chosen Of the second St. Paul Whom he did predestinate them he also cased and whom he called them he also justified Now the Church whose very name implies a Call must needs have been the effect of one of these two just mentioned But if defined by a bare profession it cannot refer to one or other of these nor can it answer the design of either It does not fulfil the end of the first for the Preaching of the Gospel does not call men to a meer Profession of believing Jesus Christ's Doctrine A Hypocrite is so far from complying with this Call that he rejects and mocks at it It does not refer to the second Call because the Spirit which calls with the Word is a Spirit of Regeneration and not bare profession What Call shall we refer it to then I know not any third the Scripture mentions not any and the nature of the thing will not admit of any We can consider God in such a case but according to two different capacities either as a Law-giver commanding exhorting promising and threating or as an absolute disposer of Events and so bringing to pass in us the thing he commands us But whether commanding us or whether working in to he never stops at a bare profession he goes on to the truth of Holiness and Faith his Word enjoyns it his Spirit produces it So that whether soever of these two Calls you suppose the Church to obey it must either proceed to a true Conversion or be no Church for the proper and natural signification of the word is a Called Society but no one ever called it to an outward profession and no more XI I suppose it is a maxim among all Christians That Jesus Christ hath no more Churches than one and that this on Earth together with that in Heaven make but that one thus much we learn from the Trent-Catcchisin it self A sure method then of discovering the true nature and essence of the Church upon Earth would be to search into that in Heaven for it is plain were these of different natures they would be no longer one but two Churches of a several species Thus much I think must be granted and so likewise must the Conclusion I deduce from it viz. That either the nature of the Church Triumphant must exist in a bare profession or that of the Church Militant cannot If the Churches Unity here below be a Unity of Profession an external Unity only and the internal one be but accidental then the Unity of the Church above must be External too and no more and that Internal one resulting from the agreement of hearts and wills no more essential to it than to this below Otherwise as was said before they must be two different Churches Let them be so kind then to clear this Point Whether we must believe that a true Piety true Regeneration and true Holiness are
not really esseential parts of the Church in Heaven for to this hour I never heard any such thing maintained XII Those who desire to be informed what the Church and its Unity is need only consider what Jesus Christ says in that admirable Prayer related by St. John Neither pray I for these alone his Apostles but for them also which shall believe on me through their word That they may be one as thou Father art in me and I in thee that they also may be one in us The Glory which thou gavest me I have given them that they may be one even as we are one The Churches Unity is formed after the pattern of that between the Father and the Son This is a kind of resemblance a draught of that which hath some of the strokes though not all the liveliness and perfection It is therefore a Real Internal Unity a Unity not of outward Profession only but in some sort of nature and essence a Unity of Regeneration a Unity of the same Faith and the same Righteousness and to restrain this to a meer External Union such as is common to both good and bad men would not only weaken but utterly evacuate the force of Jesus Christ's expression XIII To all that hath been now alledged might be added almost innumerable passages of the Primitive Fathers who whenever they spoke of the Church in its true and genuine sense did always deliver themselves as we do I will here instance in some of them S. Cypr. in his 55 Ep. hath this passage Lord says St. Peter to whom shall we go thou hast the words of eternal life and we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ the Son of the living God Shewing hereby that such as depart from Christ perish through their own default but the Church which believes in him and constantly perseveres in the Truths she hath received does never depart from him and such as continue in the House of God are his Church Such as want the substance and solidity of good corn and are scattered abroad with the breath of the Enemy like chaff with the wind are not of Gods planting With relation to whom it is that St. John in his Epistle says They went out from us but they were not of us for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us In another place having said before that the water mixt with their winc in the Eucharist represented the people as the wine did the Blood of Christ he adds When therefore the water is mixed with the wine in the Chalice the people are united to Jesus Christ and the company of believers joined to him on whom they believe Now this water and wine are so mixt in the Cup that they cannot be parted any more Whence it follows that nothing can separate between Christ and his Church that is the persons that are in the Church constantly and closely adhering to what they have believed nor break off the inviolable love they bear to one another So that wicked men and Hypocrites are not of the Body of the Church seeing an outward profession is not sufficient to make men such St. Jerom says the very same thing The Church of Christ is a glorious Church having neither spot nor wrinkle nor any such thing He therefore that is a sinner and stained with any pollution cannot be said to be of Christ's Church nor in subjection to Christ It may happen indeed that as the Church which had heretofare its spots and wrinkles was after restored to youth and purity so a sinner may come to the Physician for those that be well need not a Physician but those that be sick and so having his maladies healed be made a member of the Church which is Christs Body St. Ambrose explaining those words of the 36 th Psalm Let not the hand of the ungodly cast me down says As the Saints are members of Jesus Christ so wicked men are members of the Devil Let not the hand of the ungodly remove me that is Let not the actions of Sinners tempt me to depart from the way of righteousness for we are apt to slip when we see the prosperity of Sinners and so the hand of Sinners does in some sort shake and loosen us from the root of vertue If wicked men are members of the Devil there little probability that hypocrisie should be able to make them members of Jesus Christ But of all the Fathers there is not any that treats of this Subject with such exactness and perspicuity as St. Austin does a Man might compile a whole Volume of what he hath written about it This Father explaining that of St. Jehn They went out from us but they were not of us They went out from us says he we lament the loss But hear the comfort they were not of us All Hereticks and Schismaticks go out from us That is depart from the Church but were they truly any of outs they would not have departed They were not therefore out members even before they went out and if so then there are many within who tho they have not yet gone out are Antichrists May we dare to essert this Yes why not Let every man consult his own Conscience to know if he be not Anticrist The meaning of Anticrist is contrary to Christ Whence it is clear that none but Antichrists can go out for such as are not contrary to Christ will by no means do so for they continue in the body and are reckoned among the members of Christ The Members are never contrary to one another The intire composition of a body consuis in having all its members and you know what the Apostle says upon this matual agreement of the Members If one member suffer all the members suffer with it and if one be honoured all shall rejoyce with it Now if all the Members suffer in the grief of one and rejoyce at the honour done to one there is nothing that savours of Antichrist in this mutual agreement Those that are within are the body of our Lord Jesus Christ For this body is still in a state of healing and will never enjoy perfect health and sandness till the resurrection of the dead These Antichrists are in the body of Christ like ill humours the voiding of which eases the body Thus when the wicked go out the Church finds refreshment and when the body throws them out she says these noxious humours are gone out of me but they were no part of me that is they were not cut away from my flesh or substance but opprest my stomach while they lay there They are gone from us then but be not troubled at it they were not ours But how do you prove this St. John says If they had been of us they would have continued with us So that you see many people receive the Sacraments with us which yet are not any part of us
They have Baptism administred to them they receive that benediction which the saithful are sensible they receive truly and effectually the Eucharist and whatever is in the Sacraments They communicate of the same Altar with us and yet are no parts of us Templation discovers them to be none When that arises they are carried away as with a strong wind because they are not the true solid Corn. Nothing can be more express Evil men tho within the pale of the Church That is making an outward profession yet are not of his Body nor ought to be reckoned among his Members These are distempered humours within the Body but not at all of the substance of the Body such as do but annoy the Body and must be evacuated in order to give its relief So that St. Augustine's sense of the Church was That it consisted only of Righteous persons and true Believers and that inward vertues were essential to it and ought to make a part of its definition Observe again what he delivers in his Treatise of Baptism against the Donatists Whether evil men be seemingly within the Church or evidently out of it still that which is flesh is flesh Whether the barren Chaff continue in the floor or be scattered by the blast of temptation it is still but Chaff Carnal and obdurate persons tho they mix with the Saints in the same Assemblies are still separated from the Unity of that Church which is without spot or wrinkle Yet must we not despair of any either such as being within the pale passes for Friends or such as being without betrays a more manifest contraricty to us And lower in the same Treatise Baptism it self cannot be corrupted tho administred to corrupt persons any more than the church which is incorruptible chast and innocent To which Covetous persons Robbers and Usurers do not belong such as Cyprian in many of his Epistles says are not only without but even within the pale Presently after Such as live contrary to Christ that is in the breach of his Commandments tho they seem to be in the Church are not really so We must not imagine they belong to that Church which Jesus Christ cleanses by the washing of water and the word to make of it a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle And if they be not of that Church whose members they are not then neither are they of that concerning which it is said My dove is but one the only one of her mother For this is she that is without spot or wrinkle and let them shew us how these are members of this Dove who have renounced the World in words only and not in works And a little after that I would ask with respect to every man's present condition whether such men are now to be reckoned for members of that Church which is the Dove the Spouse without spot or wrinkle as Cyprian describes in his Epistle Men that kept not to the way of the Lord nor the Heavenly receptes given for their Salvation that did not perform the Will of God but wholly addicted themselves to worldly gain proud envious contentious persons that neglected Hoonesty and Faith renounced the World in words only not in deeds every one studying his own pleasure and the dissatisfaction of all others If this Dove refuse to own such for her Members if God shall one day say to such wretches that continue in their perverse courses I know you not depart from me ye workers of iniquity tho they seem never so much to be in the Church they are not in truth of the Church but act in direct contrariety to her And in another place of the same Treatise Such as oppose brotherly love whether they are plainly without or whether seemingly within are divided from that invisible Assembly which Charity knits together Therefore St. John says They went out from us but they were not of us for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us He does not say they alienated themselves by going out but that they were aliens and that this was the reason why they went out Thus far this Father does not dissemble his opinion He will by no means own any but the Saints to be Members of the Church he totally excludes wicked men and hypocrites he uses no such nice distinctions between dead and living members as our modern Controvertists do in the contrary he explains what he said That wicked men were in the Church by saying that they seem to be in it but they only seem to be so for in very deed they are more foreigners and such as the Church does not acknowledg for hers In the fifth Book of the same Treatise he says The Church is described in the Book of Canticles as Christ's Garden inclosed his Sister his Spouse his sealed Fountain his Well of living waters his Orchard of Pomegranates This I dare understand of none but the Saints and Righteous persons not of the Covetous the Defrauders the Extortioners the Usurers the Drunkards and the Envious which have indeed the same common Baptism with the just but not the same Charity Let them tell me how the men that have renounced the world in words only and not in deeds got in to this inclosed Garden this sealed Fountain For if these men are really in it if these are the Spouse of Christ how can that Spouse be without blemish or without spot How can she be the beautiful Dove when stained with such a parcel of Members as these Are not these the Thorns in the midst of which she as the Lilies according to that expression in the Canticles In what respect then she is a Lilly in the same is she an inclosed Garden a sealed Fountain That is with regard to those just men who are Jews inwardly by the Circumcision of the heart For the King's daughter is all glorious within and among these are the set number of Saints predestinated before the foundation of the World But for that multitude of Thorns whether their separation be undiscerned or whether it be open they are added over and above as the Scripture says they are multiplied above measure This number therefore of the just called according to the Election of God these of whom it is said The Lord knoweth them that be his They are his inclosed Garden his sealed Fountain his Well of Living Waters This Holy Doctor thought it not enough to allow wicked men and hypocrites no place in his notion of the Church and to make it up of just men only but he does besides shew wherein the very essential form that Unity which constitutes a Church does consist to wit not in any thing external but in the internal graces In the Circumcision of the heart and the Glory within He goes farther still and makes the Church to consist of the predestinated only The number says he of God's Elect are his inclosed Garden and sealed
Fountain that is the Church of Christ How shall we reconcile this Doctrine with M. de Condom 's who distinguishes between the Church of Christ and the predestinate as between a whole and it's part who counts the reprobates in too and blames us for restraining the Church to the number of God's Elect alone This being a point of consequence and able to determine all our Controversy concerning the Church I hope it may not be tedious to hear what St. Augustin says further upon it After having recited a passage taken out of â—t Cyprian's Epistle to Magnus he goes on thus The words of blessed Cyprian shew that he rightly understood the beauty of God's House in that he declares and proves both by the testimony of the Prophets and the signification of the Sacraments that this House is composed of men living in Peace and unity of Heart So that those envious uncharitable Wretches were not in this House notwithstanding they were baptised And by consequence Christ's Holy Sacrament may be both administred and received by men not in the Church of Christ because as appears by the Testimony of Cyprian none but the peaceable live in this Church It will not serve the turn to say they might baptize while they were hid they were not hidden from St. Paul when he said in his Epistle he rejoyced that Christ was preached even by such whether in pretence or in truth says he Christ is preached and I therein do rejoyce yea and will rejoyce Upon these considerations I do not think it reshness in me to affirm that some are in the House of God so as that they are themselves the very House that which is said to be built upon a Rock called his Dove his only One his beautiful Spouse without spot or wrinkle the inclosed Garden the sealed Fountain the Well of living Water the Orchard with Pomegranates and which HAth received the Keys the power of binding and loosing this House it is whose corrections if any man contemptuously behave himself against he is ordered to be to us as an Heathen and a Publicar Of this it is said Lord I have loved the Beauty of thy House and the place where thine Honour dwelleth He maketh men of one mind in an house I was glad when they said unto me we will go into the House of the Lord. Blessed are they that dwell in thy House they will be alway praising Thee and a world of such like passages This House is called the good seed bringing forth fruit with patience thirty sixty and a hundred fold This House consists of Vessels of gold and of silver of precious stones and incorruptible wood To this House 't is said Bear up one another in love endeavouring to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace And the Holy Temple of God are ye For this consists of the true Believers and holy Servants of God dispersed throughout the Universe and all knit together in a spiritual Unity by the participation of the same Sacraments whether personally known to one another or not As for the rest they are said to be in the House but it is in such a manner that they belong not at all to the building nor have any part of that fellowship which brings forth the fruit of righteousness and peace They are here as the Chaff is among the Corn for we cannot deny that they be contained in the House because St. Paul says In a great house are vessels not only of gold and silver but also of wood and of earth and some to honour and some to dishonour I cannot imagine how St. Augustin'S sight came to differ so mightily from M. de Condam'S If we believe the latter by the Church must be understood a Society composed of good and bad men for he tells you to such a Society only are those passages of Scripture applicable Vpon this rock will I build my Church Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it that he might make it a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle c. If he refuse to hear the Church let him be unto thee as an Heathen c. Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven c. But if St. Augustin be to be believed we must take the Church in a quite different sense for a Society made up of none but righteous persons and true Believers because to such a one and no other do these passages belong In his Opinion the just alone are the House built upon a Rock the Spouse without spot or wrinkle they only have the keys and power of binding and loosing 't is their censures only that men ought not to despise if they would not be looked upon as Heathens and Publicans M. de Condom deduces his Arguments from these passages St. Augustin deduces his from the very same and yet their Conclusions are opposite to one another All that we have left to do then is either to correct St. Augustin by M. de Condom or M. de Condom by St. Augustin and of the two methinks the latter is the more reasonable Upon this ground then I will once more introduce that Father speaking thus We must not suppose that wicked men belong to Christ's body i. e. the Church because they do partake of the Sacraments corporally The Sacraments themselves are holy in such persons but they do but increase their condemnation because they administer and receive them unworthily Now they are not of that Company of Christ's Church which consists of his Members compacted together by bands and joynts and increaseth with the increase of God For this Church is built on a Rock according to that of our Saviour Vpon this rock will I build my Church But those build on the Sand as the same Saviour said Whoso heareth my Words and doth them not I will comapre him to a foolish man that built his house upon the sand Now lest you should fancy that the Church built upon a Rock is in any one particular place or that it is not extended over the whole Earth observe her complaint in the Psalm From the ends of the Earth have I cryed unto thee when my heart was in heaviness Thou hast set me up upon a rock She cries from the ends of the Earth therefore she is not in Africa and no where else she is set up upon a Rock therefore those must not be esteemed of her who build upon the Sand. There is some probability St. Augustin knew what he said and yet you see a passage of Scripture Ephes 4. abused by M. de Condom in favour of his Church made up of a mixture of good and bad men which this Father explains of the Church of the Just only as well as that other of St. Matt. 16. Vpon this Rock will I build my Church He teaches the same Doctrine in his Book concerning the Unity
of the Church The Church is the Body of Jesus Christ according to that of the Apostle for His body the Church whence it is evident that such as are not accounted his Members cannot obtain Salvation Now the Members of Jesus Christ are united by Love both to one another and to him their Head A little further answering the Donatists Cavils against the Catholicks for having persecuted them for having burnt their Bibles for having sacrificed to Idols I return the same answer says he which I have often done already That what you say either is not true or if it be it concerns not Christ's good Corn but the Chaff The Church does not perish for this which shall be throughly purged from these men at the last exact judgment I enquire after the true Church That is where she is that hears the words of Jesus Christ and does them that builds upon a Rock that thus hearing and doing does yet bear with those that hear and do not and so build upon the Sand. I enquire where the Corn is which must grow among Tares till the Harvest Matt. 13. not what the Tares have done or do I enquire where Christ's Well-beloved is she who is among the wicked Daughters as the Lily among Thorns Cant. 2. not what the Thorns have done or now do I enquire where the good Fish are Matt. 13. which till they are drawn to shore must be content to lye in the same Net with bad ones not what the bad Fish have done or now do Afterwards again Seeing both good and bad administer and receive the Sacrament of Baptism and the good only are spiritually regenerated become his true Members and make up the building of Christ's Body 't is plain that Church consists of the good only to which it was said As the lily among thorns so is my beloved among the daughters Cant. 2. For it consists of those that build upon a Rock that is that hear the Word of God and do it For this Reason when St. Peter acknowledged Jesus to be the Christ the Son of God he said unto him Matt. 16. And upon this Rock will I build my Church This is not therefore those who build upon the Sand i. e. they that hear Christ's Words and do them not For the same Christ hath said Matt. 7. He that heareth my words and doth them I will liken him to a wise man that built his house upon a rock And a little before the end of the Book There are many who communicate with the Church in the Sacraments yet are not in the Church Else if when one is excommunicated visibly he be then only separated from the Church when he is restored to the Communion we must say that he is actually stated in the Church again But suppose his return be hypocritical That he bring a heart inveterate against the Truth and the Church must we own that such a one is perfectly reconciled and become a true member of Jesus Christ because the outward formalities of receiving him in have past upon him God forbid As therefore he is not really of the Church tho readmitted into the Communion so if before Excommunication he had a Soul at enmity with the Truth he was in truth separated even then And thus it is that the good and I bad seed grow together in the same common Field until Harvest that is the Children of the Kingdom and the Children of the wicked one If after all this M. de Condom shall still maintain that an outward profession and participation of the Sacraments are sufficient to make men members of the Church we may take the confidence to tell him that his Authority is not yet advanced so far with us as to be reckon'd of equal weight with St. Augustin's In his Book against Cresconiâ—s Good and bad men he says may baptize but God alone who is eternally good can purifie the conscience The wicked are condemned of Christ without the Churches knowledg as having an evil and a polluted conscience and are not even now in Christ's body the Church For Christ cannot have such for his members as are condemned and therefore they Baptize even while they are out of the Church themselves God forbid such monsters should be reckoned among the members of the only Dove God forbid such should enter into the inclosed garden whose keeper can never be imposed upon In like manner does this holy Father speak in his Book of the Christian Doctrine Tichonius the Donatist haveing busied himself in laying down some Rules for the understanding of Scripture St. Augustine takes them into examination and this is what he says to the second of them His second Rule concerns the twofold Body of Christ that is an improper term for in reality none are his body who shall not continue with him for ever He should rather have exprest it concerning our Lords true or mixt body or true and counterfeit or some such like term For though hypocrites seem to be of the Church they are so far from being with him to all eternity that they are really not with him now He might then be allowed to lay down this Rule but he should have phrased it concerning the mixt Church And afterwards Tichonius his seventh and last Rule is concerning the Devil and his body For the Devil is the head of the wicked and they in some sort his members appointed to undergo with him the punishment of everlasting fire as Christ is the head of the Church which is his body and appointed to eternal glory with him As therefore in the first Rule entituled Of the Lord and his body when the Scripture speaks of one and the same person we must distinguish carefully what belongs to the Head and what to the Body so as to this last Rule we shall find things spoken of the Devil which do not so much belong to Him and his Body Now that Body of his is composed not only of such as are visibly without but those also who though in truth they belong to him yet continue for a time mixed with the Church I make no doubt but so many passages of St. Augustine together with those other proofs I instanced in before for the resolving this question may make M. de Condom a little uneasie though he think never so well of his own principle But in short it concerns not only this Bishop but all others that take this dispute into consideration to know once for all what mighty difficulties they must overcome before they can establish the pretended Authority of their Church That is to say in one word it is fit they know that in order to compass this design they must triumph over Scripture triumph over Reason triumph over the Fathers but above all they must declare open war with St. Austin particularly The Throne of Rome's Hierarchy is never capable of being set up but upon these foundations or to speak more properly upon
Believers that is not of the true Church On the other side when we see men undergo long sharp tryals without being removed either from the profession of the true Doctrine and Worship or from that of Righteousness and Holiness in this respect here is made a positive distinction and such as makes us acknowledg that these persons are of the true Church of Jesus Christ I confess these distinctions are not always either so certain as never to admit of mistakes nor so universal as not to confound one with another For a man may judg rashly of both sorts either for want of knowing mens particular circumstances and the motives they went upon or some other way and it is never seen that all Hypocrites discover themselves at once But however there is great use to be made of this distinction and such a visibility of the true Church results from it as is in some sort personal according to our Hypothesis Now Sir you see whether M. de Condom was in the right to take it for granted as if it were a certain truth that there was no visible Church but such a one as he defined that comprehends good and bad true Believers and Worldlings contrary to the Scriptures and St. Augustin's sense You see too whether he was in the right to maintain in this first part of his discourse that we deny the Churches visibility The Pretended Reform'd says he will not have the visible Church to be that which is called Jesus Christ's Body Which is then that Body where God hath established some Apostles c. Which is that Body where God hath placed several Members and different Graces the Grace of Ministry the Grace of Teaching the Grace of Exhortation and Consolation the Grace of Ruling Which I say is that Body if it be not the visible Church We never denied the visible Church upon Earth to be Christ's Body not the whole Body indeed for there is one part of it collected in Heaven and another not yet in being but still that part upon Earth is Jesus Christ's Body so the Scripture calls it and we are so far from thinking as he saies that quite contrary we prove Hypocrites and Worldlings to be really no part of the true visible Church by this very Argument that it is called in Scripture the Body of Jesus Christ For this reason the visible Church is thus defined in the 27th Article of our Confession of Faith The company of the Faithful agreeing to follow the Word of God and that pure Religion grounded thereon and who constantly make proficiency therein Now this Company of the Faithful thus described is and is called the Body of Jesus Christ If M. de Condom had been at the pains to read Calvin he would find him speaking of the visible Church in the 4th Book of his Institutions Chap. 1. thus It is no ordinary commendation the Scripture gives it when 't is said Ephes 5. 26 27. that Christ hath chosen it and separated it for his spouse to make her without spot and wrinkle his body and his fullness M. Mestrezzat speaking of the visible Church in the same sense says The instruments made use of by God to build his Church are the Pastors and Ministers of his Gospel Ephes 1. 23. according to that of St. Paul Ephes 4. He hath given some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the gathering together the Saints for the work of the Ministry for the edifying of the Body of Christ And a little after The same Body of Christ which is invisible as to the Election of God and inward sanctification of the heart enjoys the visible Ministry of the Word and from it brings forth fruit unto salvation For we must not look for the Church of God out of this visible state of the Ministry of the Word The same thing I say with relation to that other passage of St. Paul where he says Ephes 5. 25 26 27. Jesus Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word That he might present it to himself a glorious Church not having spot or wrinkle They will not have it possible says M. de Condom Conference Page 5. for this place to be understood of the visible Church not yet of the Church on Earth He must pardon me if I say he is mistaken for tho we understand by this the Church already in Heaven yet do we besides understand the visible Church upon Earth and M. Mestrezzat speaking of this passage saies expresly That St. Paul there sets forth the Church as one and the same Body receiving Grace and Glory and makes Glory to be the perfection and accomplishment of Grace It is evident then that the visible Church is in our Opinion Jesus Christ's Body or which comes all to one that the Body of Christ which is the true Church upon Earth is visible I should now conclude my Third Enquiry did I not think my self under an obligation to remove some difficulties which may be started upon it For it may be said the Ministry is common to good and bad and consequently it makes a Church composed of good men and bad I answer that the Ministry and the use of it is common both to good and bad comes to pass only by accident and from the treachery of the Enemy Of right it belongs to true Believers only and its genuine design was for them Jesus Christ gave it for the assembling of the Saints and instituted it to increase and cultivate his good Corn. If the Tares use it or to speak more truly abuse it this is contrary to his intention For his hand never sowed these but the enemy's who rose by night for that purpose It is sure then that the Ministry of it self does not make up a Church composed of good and bad men because such only as it was intended to gather are to be reckoned of his visible Church Now the Ministry is designed to gather the true Believers and truly Righteous not the worldlings and hypocrites in the least If they thrust themselves into the Assemblies it is not the Ministry that calls them but the spirit of the world that sends them thither An invincible argument that there is no other visible Church but what consists of true Believers because they are the only persons call'd to Religious Assemblies and it is not Jesus Christ but Jesus Christ's enemy that thrusts others into them To give you yet further satisfaction as to this Point permit me Sir to interpose between M. de Condom and St. Augustin not to set them at difference but endeavour to reconcile them M. de Condom assures me that Jesus Christ in that passage Tell it the Church spoke of a visible Church a Church visible by the exercise of the Ministry St. Augustin on the other side assuâ—es me that he speaks of
the Church consisting of true Believers only I reconcile these two by inferring That the Church of true Believers only is a Church made visible by the Exercise of the Ministry M. de Condom tells me St. Paul speaks of a Church visible by the use of the Ministry when he says Christ loved it and cleansed it with the washing of water by the word St. Augustin tells me The Church of true Believers only is spoken of in this passage I can reconcile these two no other way than by concluding that then the Church of true Believers only is a Church visible by the use of the Ministry M. de Condom teaches me that in this passage Thou art Peter and upon this rock will I build my Church Jesus Christ denotes a Church visible by the Exercise of an External Ministry St. Augustin instructs me that it denotes the Church of true Believers How shall these two be made agree but by concluding that the Church of true Believers then is a visible Church exercising an external Ministry If you still desire an Argument of more strongth remember that the visibility attributed to the Church in Scripture cannot possibly be any other than that we assign it For as on the one hand we are taught there that the true Church consists of true Believers only so do we learn there also that true Believers are mixt with wicked men and hypocrites It is there we find the similitudes of Chaff amongst the good Corn of bad Fishes jumbled together with the good of Tares sown among the good Wheat Now whatever we deliver concerning the Churches visibility and invisibility is grounded entirely upon these two principles The second difficulty that may be siarted is whether the visibility we assign to the Church be sufficient to maintain Christian Fellowship to comfort the Faithful and bring them to Salvation I answer that this would not be sufficient indeed to establiâ—h the Church of Romes pretensions such as absolute authority over mens Consciences Infallibility of Councils a blind obedience to their Determinations and this very insufficiency as to that shews us the injustice of such pretensions But I say that in its kind this visibility is sufficient either for the maintenance of external Communion or for the joy and consolation of the Faithful and the bringing them to Salvation In order to that we need only know ourselves to be in Communion with the truly Faithful For tho we know that there is a mixture of ill men among these yet shall we still continue in the external Communion with them out of respect to God's Elect We shall still bear the disorders and offences given by others patiently we shall still receive the same Sacraments and partake of other fruits of the Ministry with comfort as knowing that the efficacy of these acts does not depend upon the wicked but are blessings that belong to the righteous And our not being able to make certain and personal distinctions of men will add to our caution that we suffer not our selves to be surprised into any superstitions and errors that would insinuate themselves under the plausible title of the Church And thus the visibility we allow the Church is abundantly sufficient It might further be demanded whether it can so happen that the Church may at any time lose the visibility of its Assemblies and so become in this respect perfectly invisible I answer that although we acknowledg Almighty God can whenever he pleases utterly disperse the persons of the Faithful and still keep them in this wretched condition by the methods of his own Providence yet we do not think this ever did so happen The Christian Church hath lain under great persecutions but tho they were never so great she hath constantly had some where or other some Assemblies and some exercise of the Ministry publick or private and however her Martyrs and Confessors have all along made her visible so that she cannot be said absolutely ever to have disappeared quite from the sight of men Yet we must own that in this respect there have been several degrees of her visibility that is the Church hath been more or less visible as her Assemblies have been held and her Ministry exercised with more or less freedom We must own too that not any particular Church upon Earth can promise it self a perpetual visibility no nor so much as a perpetual subsistence God removes his Candlestick from the midst of a people at his pleasure and he does it then when he hath no more Elect to call there There have been many instances of this in the World particularly in the Churches of Africa once so beautiful and flourishing but these are only the puttings out of some particular light and do not at all prejudice either the subsistence or visibility of the Christian Church in general The last difficulty to be urged is whether the Church can at any time lose the visibility of its Characters I mean that visibility whereby without descending to personal distinctions we are enabled to conclude that there are true Believers in this mixed Society so far as that we can not judge whether such be there or no I answer It not only may but often hath happened that the Characters by which we should in this respect come to know the true Church have been so mightily obscured that a man could not without much trouble and difficulty affirm that In this particular body it was that God nourished and sustained his true Believers and we shall find hereafter that M. de Condom himself owns enough to establish the truth of this assertion But still tho this be uncontestable as proved to be plain matter of fact we do notwithstanding acknowledg that the Church did never absolutely and entirely lose their visibility in this respect because as was said in answer to the Prejudices we do not think that ever so total an Eclipse happen'd that it could not in some measure be said This is the Society wherein God preserves some true Believers And here I cannot but complain of what M. de Condom does afterwards in his Discourse accuse us of saying that the visible Church sometimes ceases to be They are constrained says he to say that the visible Church sometimes ceases to be upon Earth And in another place This is the Church which your Ministers know not They teach you that this visible and exteriour Church may cease to be upon Earth But this is urging his charge against us too far So far are we from believing the visible Church ceases to be that we do not so much as say it ever absolutely ceases to be visible And yet there would be a mighty difference between saying she ceases to be visible and that she ceases to be at all The Sun the most visible thing in the World is often not visible to our eyes but yet he ceases not to be In the point of Real presence M. de Condom will own that the Body
of Jesus Christ ceases to be visible but he would not be well-pleased for that reason to be taxed with saying he ceases to be there at all But however let M. de Condom put what sense he please upon our words it is certain we acknowledg the Church to be perpetually visible in the meaning I explain'd just now And M. de Condom could never have spent his time to less purpose than in taking such pains to confute an opinion which we never held against him Quest 4. What Church the Promises of Jesus Christ belong to whether that defined by M. de Condom a Society making profession to believe c. or that which we define A Society which making profession to govern it self by Christ's Word does really govern it self by it M. de Condom speaking of us in one place of his Discourse says They have not the Consolation which the Catholicks have to see Jesus Christ's promise visibly accomplisht and maintain'd during so many Ages They cannot shew a Church which has ever been since Jesus Christ came to build it on the Rock and to save his word they are obliged to have recourse to a Church of the Predestinate which neither themselves nor any else can shew After having cleared the perpetual visibility of the Church as you lately saw judg you Sir what ground there is for his sayings we have not the consolation of seeing Jesus Christ's Promise visibly accomplish'd and maintain'd during so many Ages and whether we have not more than it is possible to have according to the Church of Romes principle M. de Condom according to his Principle sees the duration of a Church whose whole essence consists in an outward profession What is there in this more than human We see the duration of a Church whose essence consists in true Faith and Regeneration What is there in this that is not all Divine M. de Condom sees the duration of a Church supported by politick methods by paying a blind obedience to the injunctions of great men and those perhaps Hypocrites too What is there in this more than human We see the duration of a Church preserved in spight of confusion and all the froward malice of men What is there in this less than Divine They cannot says he shew a Church which hath ever been since Jesus Christ came to build it on the Rock Yes we shew this Church built on the Rock for when we shew the Body in which God nourishes and breeds up his true Believers we shew at the same time those true Believers which are his Church built on the Rock tho mixt with such as build on the Sand. When we shew the held where Jesus Christ sowed his good Seed we shew the Wheat tho there be Tares among it But let M. de Condom tell us if he think fit how he can shew us a Church built on the Rock making as he does the essence of the Church to consist entirely in an outward profession If he call this a Church upon the Rock Jesus Christ himself will reply for that such only are built upon a Rock who hear this word and do it whereas all besides are built upon the Sand. To save Christ's Word continues he they are obliged to have recourse to a Church of the Predestinate Does M. de Condom blame us for seeking the accomplishment of Jesus Christ's Promises in the body of his Elect and true Believers Pray where should we look for it else In a croud of Hypocrites and Reprobates that have no Faith no Holiness no Piety but in outward appearance only Such as God never call'd and Jesus Christ shall one day tell he never knew them Is not this of Cardinal Bellarmin's Perron's and M. de Condoms a curious Church to the constituting whereof no inward virtue is necessarily required but merely an outward profession of Faith and communicating in the Sacraments A Church whose Unity the formal essence of it is that of an external Vocation not that of Predestination nor internal Faith nor a Vnion of Souls by the works of Love In a word a Church defined not by believing and governing it self by God's word but by making profession to believe and govern it self by God's VVord Is not this putting a mighty value upon Jesus Christ's Promises to apply them not only to profane and worldly men as well as the Saints and regenerate but to such a Church as would remain entire tho there were no true believers nor righteous men in it and not cease to be the true Church of Christ tho it were composed of Hypocrites and none else Thus far Sir there is no great perspicacity required to discern that the question in hand resolves it self there being little probability that Jesus Christ was so lavish of his Promises But however let us examine the matter a little more closely The first passage M. de Condom presents us with is that of St. Paul Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it that he might cleanse it with the washing of Water by the Word that he might make it a glorious Church having neither spot nor wrinkle nor any such thing but that it might be holy and without blemish And a little after No man hateth his own flesh but nourisheth and cherisheth it even as the Lord the Church For we are members of his body of his flesh and of his bones We see in these words the obligation Jesus Christ put himself under to sanctify his Church to make it a glorious Church without spot or wrinkle holy and without blemish to nourish and cherish it as his own flesh and bones Our business is to know whether this obligation can upon any pretence whatever respect Hypocrites and wicked men And who will be perswaded it does This Church M. do Condom says is glorious because she glorifies God because she declares to all the Earth the Glory of Jesus Christ's Gospel and Cross Now as to the wicked of whom we are here treating there need but this one word be added That they glorify God and the Gospel in hypocrisy and dissimulation but in their hearts deny it Then see what God himself hath spoken as to this matter Vnto the ungodly said God why dost thou preach my laws and takest my Covenant in thy mouth This Church M. de Condom tells us is holy because she always constantly and without varying teaches the Holy Doctrine Add here But as for the wicked if they teach the holy Doctrine this is but with their lips and in shew only then see what St. Paul says They have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof from such turn away This Church according to M. de Condom hath neither spot nor wrinkle because she hath neither any evil Error nor any evil Maxim and because she instructs and contains in her bosom the Elect of God Add But as for sinners They follow Truth and Right only in pretence Then see what
to receive implicitely whatever is delivered to them by their Ministry But reject this principle and there is no reason why the Faithful may not separate the good from the bad and why they may not subsist under such a Ministry by the help of that distinction which the Grace of God enables them to make And here Sir allow me to wonder a little at the pleasant double which the Doctors of the Romish Communion make when they dispute Our first and main question is whether we ought to acquiesce in the Council of Trent's Determinations Yes say they you must yield an implicit obedience to the Decrees of the Prelates assembled in a Body But why an Implicit Obedience Because say they the Church cannot subsist without it But why cannot it subsist without it Cannot it subsist by resuming the Ministry out of such hands and putting it into better Cannot it without going so far subsist by separating between good and bad food No they tell you it cannot because it is obliged to receive implicitely whatever the Prelates in a Body shall deliver What way of disputing call you this if it be not quite to swerve from good sense and reason and to be lost in an impertinent maze For is not this a perfect round first to prove an Implicite Obedience because the Church cannot otherwise subsist and then to prove the Church cannot otherwise subsist without this Obedience because men ought to obey implicitely VI. But let us proceed in drawing our Consequences And being we hit upon the point of the Implicit Obedience they exact to the decisions of Bishops and that Sovereign and Absolute Authority wherewith they would invest them let us try if this can agree with the Principles we have establish'd I meddle not now with those other reasons that might be made use of you will find them in part in the Book I quoted just now All I shall say is that since no man can have a distinct knowledg of the True Believers and that the True Church consists of such alone no man consequently can be secure that this Body of Prelates whether considered single or whether as convened in a Council are the true Church Yes but says one they represent the true Church I agree with you so far as the True Believers are still under their Ministry But representing the True Church does not presently endue them with its Opinions and Affections The true Church in conferring her Ministry upon men does not confer upon them withal either true Faith or true Regeneration much less perfect Infallibility Hence whatever determinations they give are still subject to an examination If these prove confermable to God's Word it is our duty not only to embrace them but further to respect â—he Body of Ministers as the true Church Representative because they have exprest her sense and Charity will carry us still further and incline us to esteem them true Believers because they have acted as such But when their divisions are found to disagree with God's Word we are to look upon them as men that have abused their ministry If this happen in things not plainly interesting the Conscience their ministry must be born with and the liberty of separating the clean from the unclean natural to every Believer made use of If they do interest the Conscience we groan under their ministry we pray to God we implore succors from above still using the Liberty of Conscience to refuse the Evil and retain the Good But if this Body of Prelates-proceed to violent taking away this necessary and indispensable Liberty of Conscience and reduce the faithful to this hard streight either to be damned for false Doctrine in slavishly following their Ministers errors or damn'd for dissimulation in pretending to follow them Then the true Believers ought to look upon them as men that have stript themselves of the right of the Ministry to oppose them to take it from them and repose the trust in other hands It is evident then the supreme Authority we contend about cannot take place because it is continually in danger of being invested in worldly men to whom it cannot in any case belong And so we should be continually in danger of mistaking That for the Church Representative which neither is really nor can possibly be so VII The seventh Use to be made of what we have advanced is the right apprehending of some expressions used by us viz. That the Church is corrupted that the state of the Church hath been interrupted and the like so as to reconcile these with Jesus Christ's Promises which import not only the perpetual existence but also the perpetual holiness and incorruption of the Church Now for that corruption attributed by us to the Church I say that whereas the Promises of Christ concern the true Church that is True Believers only our expression on the contrary respects the Church according to that Idea of Charity we form of it including all external Professors which are ordinarily call'd the Visible Church 'T is of the Church taken in this last notion that we say she is corrupted for the whole Body being made up as we have seen of good and bad man it hath come to pass that the wicked are mightily increased and the spirit of the World which is a spirit of error and superstition shewed it self in an eminent manner But we do not understand true Believers to be corrupted only so far forth as they may possibly have contracted some tincture of infirmity by conversing with the others And for that interruption of the state of the Church mentioned in our Confession of Faith where we say That the state of the Church being interrupted it was necessary it should be raised up again out of its ruines and desolation The meaning of those expressions is not what M. de Condom pretends that the true Church ceases to exist or that its Ministry was quite extinct in those times which we call times of desolation and ruine for we make a distinction between the Church and the state of the Church The Church is the true Believers making profession of Truth and Christian Piety and a real Holiness under a Ministry which dispenses all nourishment necessary for spiritual life without keeping back any It s natural and proper state is to be freed as much as its militant condition can admit from the impure mixture of prophane worldly men not to be covered over and as it were swallowed up with this Chaff and Tares to have a pure Ministry not incumbred with errors with false worship superstitious customs a Ministry in the hands of good men who are in possession of it by honest methods and set a good example to others This State is what we think hath been interrupted having seen strange opinions brought into Religion Superstitious propagated the Ministry invaded by men neither deserving nor capable of it and that were advanced by scandalous and unlawful methods having seen vices openly predominant among
Churchmen the Pulpits more zealous for Tales and Legends than the Word of God The Schools busying themselves with ridiculous Questions and Curiosities the Sacraments burdened with strange Ceremonies the instruction and edification of mens Souls wretchedly neglected and in a word the Gospel liberty changed into a temporal slavery This is what we mean by the state of the Church being interrupted this the ruine and desolation we bewail The Church hath not ceased to exist nor did she perfectly lose her visibility or her Ministry God forbid But both she and her Ministry have seen the natural state they ought to continue in changed and interrupted VIII Apply these principles now to our Reformation and then Sir you will discern that granting this supposition to be true that the Body of the Prelates invested in the ministry of the Church in our Fathers days and assembled in the Trent Council supposing I say that they delivered such determinations in points of Faith as are incompatible with Salvation Granting it to be true that they took away Christian Liberty by Anathematizing all who should refuse to believe and submit to those determinations as they did and by adding to all this violence and compulsion our Fathers had reason to look upon them as Ministers that had justly deprived themselves of all right to exercise their Ministry over them by such ill conduct and to give that power of the Ministry to others They had reason to look upon the party that adhered to these Prelates with such obstinate stiffness as a Body or Society of which a man could not positively say That is the particular Body wherein God nourishes and cherishes his Faithful and Elect. IX Hence likewise it follows that our Fathers are wrongfully charged with making a Schism and separating from the Church For it being sure that the Church consists of the Faithful only and besides that we are of opinion the Trent Bishops themselves broke the band of external Communion with sound Believers and brought things to such a pass that our Ancestors could not possibly joyn with them in the same Assemblies it is evident They were the Beginners of the Schism the Authors and makers of this lamentable division X. It signifies nothing to alledg that they were possest of the Ministry by an exterior and ordinary succession for the Ministry is not such a thing as men when once possest of can never forfeit their right to tho they abuse it never so much They enjoyed it by an external succession 't is confest but this succession with respect to mens persons continues no longer than we can say The faithful are under their Ministry When we cannot be sure of that any more from thenceforth the Prelates have lost their right and such a succession afterwards would be but as the succession of death to a disease or of night to twilight I do not say the Ministry it self is extinct God forbid but I say in such a case it devolves of right to that other part of the Society where the Faithful are The reason of which Truth is this That the Ministers are naturally the Church Representative And all their Authority is derived from the Body of the Faithful When therefore it happens that they break the band of external communion which joyns them to those Faithful it is plain they represent them no longer and the holding their Authority over them afterwards is a force and usurpation XI Lastly From the Principles we have established it appears how vain and ungrounded a scandal it is which the Controvertists of the Romish Communion are continually upbraiding us with of setting up a new Church For being the Church according to Scripture sound sense and the opinions of the Fathers is nothing else but the Society of true Believers To have set up a new Church we must have brought in a new Faith different from what Jesus Christ delivered to the World If they can convict us of being guilty in this point we are heartily content they should not only say we have formed a new Church but that we have formed a false perverse naughty Society and draw all the consequences against us that can be naturally drawn from that Concession But if we on the contrary have only rejected new Doctrines a worship that Christian Religion never was acquainted with and Errors brought into the Church since it was first established if we have only refined the Ministry and restored the Gospel to its natural lustre they ought to be just in acknowledgment that God hath made use of us for the preservation of his true Ancient Primitive Church and the rescuing it from oppression If it be true that the Trent Council have made Articles of Faith of such Doctrines and Practices as were never revealed to us by Christ may we not say that That hath set up a new Religion and consequently a new Church Let us judge of one another by this Rule of right reason and conscientiously examine the truth of what hath been done on both sides for upon such an examination the justice or injustice of taxing us with Novelty will depend THE SECOND PART OF Monsieur de CONDOM's Discourse EXAMINED THUS much I thought fit to say in Answer to the First part of M. de Condom's Discourse The Second will not detain us very long They made me says he some Objections concerning the frequent revolts of the people of Israel who had so often forsaken God the Kings and all the people as the Holy Scripture speaks during which the publick worship was so extinct that Elijah thought himself the only servant of God till he learnt from God himself that he had reserved to himself seven thousand men which had not bowed the knee unto Baal To this I answer'd proceeds he that for what regarded Elijah there was no difficulty since 't was apparent from the very words that it concern'd only Israel where Elijah prophesied and that the Divine Worship was so far from being at that time extinct in Judah that 't was there under the reign of Josaphat in the greatest lustre it had been since Solomon's time I shall not say here that the Divine Worship under the reign of Josaphat was not in such great lustre neither but that the Scripture informs us The high places were not taken away for the people offered still and burnt incense in the high places which was a worship forbidden by God But not to insist upon this I say in the first place This instance is a very good proof that the greatest part of this exteriour Society professing themselves to be the people of God that is ten tribes out of twelve were corrupted to that degree that Elijah complain'd he only was left Which shews that we must not always conclude Truth and Purity to be of that side where the number is most nor suppose it impossible for what we call the Visible Church to be corrupted at least as to the greatest part of Professors Secondly I
could heartily have wisht that M. de Condom would have reflected a little upon the use St. Paul made of this instance of Israel in Elijah's time because it is exactly the same with what the Protestant Ministers make of it now It was objected to the Apostle that from his Principles it would follow that God had cast away his people in as much as the whole Body of that people had crucified Jesus Christ and walked contrary to his new Religion if therefore he would undertake to maintain his new Religion was the Right he must at the same time own that God had forsaken his Church No says he God hath not cast away his people for there is a remnant through the election of Grace and hereupon he alledges what happened to Israel heretofore in Elijah's time when God reserved to himself Seven thousand men in secret that had not bowed the knee to Baal What can be more exactly parallel than the use he makes of this passage and that the Protestants make 'T is objected to us that from our Principles it follows God hath cast away his Church because the whole Body of that Church condemns our Reformation and walks contrary to our new Religion They teach that this visible exterior Church may cease to be upon Earth says M. de Condom No such matter say we God hath not deserted his Church there is a remnant according to the Election of Grace and in proof of this we urge the instance of Israel heretofore in Elijah's time If to charge the Protestants with unsincerity for alledging this were at the same time to charge St. Paul If the exception of Judah where the worship in Elias his time was in great lustre were good and to be admitted against us the same was also good and to be admitted against the Apostle For what do we more than he did or what do we say but what we have learnt from Him ought to be said in this Case Let St. Paul then acquit himself and he shall in doing so acquit us Now this is done without any difficulty for he need only Answer that the exception does not make at all against him The business is to know which is the true people of God his true Church which he never forsakes Now it is plain by God's answer to Elijah that this is not the Croud the vast Number not the party of greatest strength or which makes most noise in the World but some persons reserved a remnant according to the election of Grace these are his true people and his true Church Tho Judah had still maintain'd the Divine Worship in its greatest lustre yet does not this detract from the truth of God's declaration made to Elias viz. that his true people his true Church consists of this Remnant or these Persons reserved This is all St. Paul desires this is likewise all the Protestants desire to make of it Lord says Elijah they have broken down thine Altars and slain thy Prophets with the sword and I only am left Had God made his Church to consist in an exterior Body of men who should preserve his worship in a constant uninterrupted purity what could have been more natural than to return this answer Wherefore dost thou complain have I not still my Church in Judah The Cardinal du Perron would have replied exactly thus and from him it is that M. de Condom hath borrowed this shift Yet God answers in a very different manner he fixes his true Church not in the exterior Body but in the Persons he had reserved The Apostle takes the advantage of an Argument against what the Jews in his time objected and we in like manner take the same advantage against what is objected to us now Afterward M. de Condom frames to himself an Objection drawn from the Disorders and horrible Corruptions predominant in Judah during the Reign of Ahaz who shut up the Temple of God and caused Vrijah the Priest to sacrifice unto Idols and afterward under Manasseh whose Impieties transcended those of Ahaz To which he answers first That Isaiah who lived during all the Reign of Ahaz for all these abominations of the King of the Priest Urijah and almost all the People never separated from the Communion of Judah which shews that there is always a People of God from whose Communion 't is never lawful to separate Laying aside for one minute the business of Separation we must in the mean time of necessity grant that this exterior Society called the People of God were prodigiously corrupted in matters of Faith and Worship that their Corruption was publick and general diffused not among some private Persons only but through the whole Body of the ordinary Ministry So that the true Church that to which the Promises of God belong that which must not be interrupted nor totally fail must be acknowledged to consist not in the whole Body of this exterior Society but merely in the Body of true Believers who it is possible may sometimes be reduced to a very inconsiderable number of this Society and scarce make any Figure at all in it We must likewise acknowledge it possible for such an universal Corruption to happen in this Society that there shall be no longer any thing perfectly sound and entire in it that is nothing in the publick Worship without some tincture of impurity For at the same time that Ahaz Reigned in Judah and the Corruption was general there Pekah was King in Isreal who says the Scripture did evil in the sight of the Lord and departed not from the sins of Jeroboam who made Israel to sin So that the publick Worship was then corrupted every where as well in Israel as Judah What then became of M. de Condom's exterior Church which he says can never err in her Determinations Where was then that Church which does not only maintain some truth but teaches and maintains all truth Well but still M. de Condom tells us Isaiah never separated from the Communion of this People no more than did the rest of the Prophets Now this very thing strengthens our Argument and renders it impregnable because from hence it necessarily follows that there was not in any place of the World besides any publick Worship nor any Exterior Body at all little or great that served God in perfect Purity So that we must inevitably allow one of these two things Either that the Church was at that time utterly extinct or that it was preserved in this Remnant which we see God spoke of to Elijah The first of these destroys the Promises of God the second establishes our Opinion and quite overthrows that of the Romanists Let us now examine how Isaiah and the other Prophets not separating from the Body of the People is to be understood Can we suppose them to have been partakers of the Wickednesses that then prevailed in the publick Worship By no means These Prophets M. de Condom says
who instead of adhering to the Peoples Errors or dissembling them rose up against them with force and this Succession was so constant that the Holy Ghost fears not to say That God rose up Night and Morning and daily admonisht the People by the Mouth of his Prophets M. de Condom must give us leave to make some Observations upon this Passage The first of which is that in the Corruptions of Israel heretofore when the publick Worship and ordinary Ministry suffered such Depravation there was not any where in the World another publick Worship or another Ministry that was preserved in Purity and Perfection So that if men must needs have lookt for the Church in the Body of the Peoples living under their ordinary Pastors and in the publick worship as he is of opinion we now must under the Gospel there could not have been any longer a Church upon Earth because his own Principle maintains that if this visible and exteriour Church composed of Pastors and People do not keep and teach all truth that is if She teach any thing that is false She is not the Church I observe secondly That in the very same place where God is said to rise up Night and Morning and daily admonish the People by the Mouth of his Prophets it is also said That all the chief of the Priests and the People trespassed wonderfully according to all the Abominations of the Heathen and polluted the House of the Lord which he had sanctified in Jerusalem It is said further too That they mocked the Messengers of God and despised his Words and misused his Prophets Which shews that both People and Priests were generally corrupted and the Church reduced to a Remnant I confess some certain Persons of this Remnant did not keep silence but instead of adhering to or dissembling the Peoples Errors opposed them strongly But besides that a great many more no question sighed in secret for these things it is manifest that this Remnant did not make a separate Body by themselves nor exercise any publick Worship different from the rest And consequently the Churches visibility tho not wholly extinct yet was mightily darkned and diminished and that is all we would infer from hence My third Observation is That there was indeed in that Ancient People a continued Succession of Prophets and as M. de Condom says a Prophetical Ministry ordinary with the People where the Prophets made an Order always subsisting whence God continually drew Divine Men by whose Mouth he spake loudly and publickly to all his People But then we must say withal that the Body of this Order of Prophets were every whit as corrupt as the Priests and People This cannot be denied for the Scripture affirms it expresly The Priests said not where is the Lord and they that should Minister the Law knew me not the Pastors also offended against me and the Prophets prophesied in Baal The Prophets prohesie lies and the Priests bear rule by their means and my People love to have it so I have heard what the Prophets said that Prophesie lies in my Name saying I have dreamed How long shall this be in the hearts of the Prophets that Prophesie lies Yea they are Prophets of the deceit of their own heart Which think to cause my People to forget my Name by their Dreams which they tell every Man to his Neighbour as their Fathers have forgotten my Name for Baal And a vast number of Passages to the like purpose So that we cannot say there was at that time any visible Body that opposed the Corruptions or maintained the Worship of God in its genuine Purity The Prophets by whom God spoke so loudly and publickly were only lookt upon as private Persons of an Opinion different from the generality of the Society And therefore how loudly and publickly soever they spoke if in order to the constituting a Visible Church it be necessary to find a Body or Society of Men making Profession of pure Doctrine M. de Condom must acknowledg that there was not then any Visible Church in the World And now Sir give me leave I beseech you to ask with what pretence to Reason men can still cavil at this instance of the Corruptions in Israel heretofore and not own it for a sensible Proof that confirms most of the Truths established in the former part of this Letter In it you see the several Bodies that made up the ordinary Ministry all of them ensnared in Idolatry and false Worship In it you see the whole Body of the People blindly following the exorbitancies of their Guides In it you see the true Church of God subsisting not in an exterior Society enjoying its Ministers Assemblies and publick Worship peculiar to its self but in some reserved Persons that still maintained their Integrity in the midst of all these Confusions In it you see God himself and after him St. Paul making his true People to consist in these Persons so reserved All this proves and proclaims to the World That the true Church consists of true Believers only That this Church is not otherwise visible but as mixt with wicked Men and Reprobates That this mixture does sometimes so obscure it that it is very difficult to come to a knowledg of it That it does nevertheless still subsist even in that state of obscurity And that in these true Believers and Persons whom God has reserved he does fulfil the Promises of Perpetuity made to the Church I close this Letter with sincere Protestations That it is much to my dissatisfaction that I find my self obliged to put Pen to paper in a Dispute against M. de Condom I have all along had and ever shall have not only all the Respect for him which is due to his Quality and Station but more especially I esteem his Virtue so universally acknowedged and admire his Perfections and the excellent Gifts God hath imparted to him as they really deserve In our Conference I observed in him a Wit lively and piercing a clear Apprehension a proper and easy way of Expression and especially an extraordinary Candour and Civility of Behaviour He maintain'd his Principles with all the strength and advantage imaginable made them look as fair and specious as it was possible for any man and managed them with abundance of Skill and Address In a word I was strangely taken with the Accomplishments of his Person and did often feel such kind Inclinations and Wishes as Men should do upon such Occasions My Sentiments of Honour and Respect for him are sincere but the more they are so the more frequent I must complain of one thing inserted by him in his Discourse with Mademoiselle de Duras and that is That in our Religion we believe there is a point of time when a Christian is obliged to doubt whether the Scripture was inspired by God whether the Gospel is a Truth or a Fable whether Jesus Christ was a Deceiver or a
a full and final resolution of the case shall be given by the Word of God and such as refuse to submit to this shall be excommunicated Secondly he produced a formulary of a Letter Missive to the National Synods framed in the Synod of Vitre and which was to be a pattern for all the Provinces to follow for the future by which they promise submission to all the resolutions of that holy Assembly to obey and execute every particular of them as being perswaded says the Formulary that God will preside there and lead you into all truth and equity by his Holy Spirit and by the Rule of his Word Besides that he produced an Act of the National Synod held at Charenton in the Year 1644. where the Independents opinion is condemned who will not allow that particular Congregations should depend upon the Authority of Colloquies and Synods but that every one should be governed by Laws within it self Now this Act expresly declares that that Sect opens a door to all manner of irregularities and extravagances that it deprives men of all means of remedying disorders and would if admitted make as many several Religions as Parishes Lastly he produced an Act of the National Synod at Sainte-foy by which upon occasion of some overtures for a re-union with those of the Ausburg Confession the Synod assigns Deputies to go and confer with them to whom full power is granted to agree upon and determine whatever points should be debated whether in matters of Doctrine or any other thing that might concern the Good and Peace of all the Churches even so far as to consent that their Decisions should be inserted in their Confessions of Faith From all which he inferred That even those of Mr. Claude's Religion did acknowledg a necessity that in order to the preservation of Unity in the Church men should submit their Judgments and pay an entire and absolute obedience to Ecclesiastical Assemblies without leaving themselves at liberty to examine their determinations or judg whether they were agreeable to the Word of God or no and that upon refusal of this Obedience it was just to proceed to Excommunication That this was exactly what the Church of Rome would have and that she desired no more But that we nevertheless in our disputes with her advance a quite contrary Principle He therefore entreated from Mr. Claude a distinct answer to this Point and would quietly hear what he could say to it Adding moreover that Mr. Claude ought to be the more ready to reply upon this subject because no new thing was proposed to him the same Acts and the same consequences that he now deduced from them being to be found in his Exposition of the Catholick Doctrine Mr. Claude first of all replied That although his coming thither was not with intentions to hold a Conference strictly and by rule yet he was extreamly glad that he had now an opportunity given him of testifying to M. de Condom how much he esteemed his person and that having no particular worth of his own he thought it a great honour that a Prelate of M. de Condom's Character should single him out to engage in Controversy with him That he would endeavour to give him satisfaction in each of the points now propounded to him and that if in the following part of the Discourse any expression should escape from him which might be offensive to M. de Condom he protested before-hand that it should be much against his will and design To this M. de Condom replied in very civil and obliging terms and Mr. Claude then resuming the discourse told him That in general whatever he had alledged just before did by no means infer such a blind and entire submission to the determinations of Ecclesiastical Assemblies as the Church of Rome pretends to impose That we must distinguish between two sorts of Authorities the one supream and unlimited the other limited and depending to the former we owe a full and perfect obedience to the other a conditional one only The former M. de Condom was sensible is by the Protestants attributed to God alone speaking to us in the Holy Scriptures and that the second was it they allowed the Pastors of the Church considered either single and by themselves or met together in a Synod or Council That their Authority being only Ministerial is restrained two ways one is That they must frame their decisions not of their own heads nor after their own fancies but according to the Word of God the other That they must always allow the persons under their Jurisdiction the priviledg of examining those decisions that so they may know whether they be really agreeable to God's Word Whence it follows that the obedience due to them ever goes upon this condition that they have not swerved from the Word of God That the Authority of Pastors and Assemblies composed of such cannot extend further than that of our Parliaments in the State of France who are not empowered to alter old Laws and enact new ones and whom we are priviledged nay obliged to disobey so oft as their Injunctions are prejudicial to the King's Service and the Allegiance we owe him That the Authority of Church-Assembles can at most be but as that of Fathers over Children because both God and Nature have invested Fathers with it The Fathers have a right to Act in their Childrens names because they have a right of Educating and Commanding them and the Scripture frequently enjoyns to Children a readiness to learn and obedience to their Fathers yet does it not follow from hence that Children are not priviledged and obliged to examine their Fathers Instructions and Commands whether they be true or false just or unjust and what shall appear to be false and unjust that to reject That nevertheless the Authority of Pastors and their Assemblies is really very great as is likewise that of Parliaments and Fathers notwithstanding their Authorities are under some limitations That the Pastors are as publick Trustees for the keeping God's Word appointed to study and meditate upon it continually thence to deduce necessary truths for the peoples improvement and to save private men a labour which they cannot always attend to because diverted and perplexed by the business of the World That so long as the Pastors discharged this Duty well the people were obliged to obey and submit to their words but when they deviated from it they were to be looked upon as false and treacherous persons Afterwards he came particularly to those Acts M. de Condom had urged and told him That the Clause of Submission contain'd in the Letters Missive to National Synods must be understood according to this Principle and under these Limitations because grounded upon this Supposal That all things would be managed there according to God's Word For those expressions Being perswaded that God will preside among you and lead you into all Truth by his Holy Spirit and by the rule of his Word do imply a
perswasion of Charity and Equity for we ought always to presume the best of such Assemblies and hope that God will preside over them and that they will acquit themselves of their duty till experience shews the contrary But all this does not imply so entire a submission as for a Man to deprive himself of all right to examine their Resolutions As to that Act which condemns the Independents it is said he extreamly Just For tho Assemblies do not arrive at an Infallibility yet are not they presently to be utterly abolished 'T is a human Order indeed but yet such an Order as God himself hath settled for the preservation of his Church and to desert it therefore is criminal And yet we do not think it follows from hence that the determinations of the Assemblies exact a blind and implicit Obedience nor that the Synod of Charenton intended any such thing And then for the Synod at Saintefoy's deputing four persons to confer with those of the Ausburg Confession and the full power given them you can make no advantage of it For those Deputies were in the nature of Ambassadors who are sent by the King with full Commission to offer Proposals hold Treaties and agree upon Conclusions or as Plenipotentiaries sent to negotiate a Peace Let their power be never so full or call them Plenipotentiaries as long as you please still this condition is constantly and naturally understood that they do nothing against the interest of the persons that commissioned them and to these their Acts must of necessity return for the obtaining their approbation and ratification without which their Treatings would signify nothing at all And this was the meaning of that full power conferr'd by the Synod upon their Deputies to hear those of the Confession of Ausburg to hearken to their Proposals their Complaints their Offers and in return to make others to them to receive from them Explications of difficulties in Controversy and to give them back theirs nay to come to an agreement with them if they could yet not so as either to become absolute Masters of their Faith or blindly receive whatever they should agree upon For in all affairs of this kind there is naturally implied a Clause of recurring to the Judgment of the persons Commissioning and a necessity of their ratifying them Mr. Claude added besides this Consideration Suppose the true sense of an Act of the Church of Rome were called in Question a Canon of the Council of Trent for instance M. de Condom would think it more reasonable that the sence should be taken from him than Mr. Claude because the Question is put concerning the sense of a Church that M. de Condom is a Member of and therefore in all probability he must understand it better than one of another Church Therefore Sir said he I expect the same Justice from you in taking the sense of these Acts now in Dispute from me provided the sense I put upon them do not disagree with the Doctors of my Communion or be not manifestly false and contradictory to the rest of our Principles Now if the sense I put upon these Acts be not any of these you have not in my opinion any right to refuse it or to frame to your self any other different from it M. de Condom replied saying that he would begin where Mr. Claude left off because that what he had urged just before carried some appearance of Truth and made a quick impression upon the mind but had not really any thing of solid Argument in it That were the matter in hand any Explication of their particular Rites and Ceremonies in Preaching the Word and Administring the Sacraments what Mr. Claude said might be allowed for Truth and in that point he would believe him as a person better acquainted with the matter Nay that he did not go about to debar him the liberty of explaining the sense of those that compiled the Discipline and the forementioned Acts after his own way That he was sensible they denied an entire submission to the Church and such as precludes all Examination But this he would say that the very men who denied this absolute submission in Speculation were forced to own and establish it in their practice That so they contradicted themselves and that this was the thing he pretended to prove and in which he was by no means bound to believe Mr. Claude For if the matter in hand now were to demonstrate any Contradictions in the opinions of the Catholick Church he would not desire that His Explications might be thought of Authority sufficient nor deny Mr. Claude the freedom of making what inferences he thought fit from the Council's own words M. de Condom stopping there Mr. Claude replied That since it was evident that the persons who made those Acts denied any submission was due to the determinations of Church-Assemblies without any Examination at all the advantage was thus far at least on his side that M. de Condom himself had acknowledged His Explanation of those Acts was agreeable with the Principles of the Protestants which made them so that there was more reason for his accepting that sense than for the framing to himself another and such a one as contradicted these Principles That supposing the business in Controversy to be an Act of the Romish Church he should not scruple to admit M. de Condom's explanation provided the words of the Act did not oppose it and in that case he might be allowed to infer a Contradiction That if M. de Condom would proceed thus as to the Acts before urged he should be glad to see what grounds he had for this pretended Contradiction M. de Condom said this would easily be made appear That he would show this Contradiction with relation to their Discipline which on one side ordains That differences in Doctrine should be decided in the Consistory by the Word of God that it was also her meaning that this decision was made by the Word of God in the Provincial Synod as well as the National and yet on the other side if men do not acquiesce in the determination of a Consistory or a Provincial Synod it orders things should continue as they were till a National one be convened in which it says a full and final resolution shall be given by the Word of God and if they submit not to this they shall be cut off from the Church Whence it is evident that the submission required to a National Synod was not founded on the Word of God considered abstractedly as such because both Consistory and Provincial Synod were supposed to determine by the Word of God and yet an Appeal from them was allow'd But that it was founded on the Word of God so far forth as That was explained and interpreted by the last judgment of the Church that is because this is the last and final resolution and consequently upon the Authority of the Assembly considered by it self Now this said he
they themselves held one he said at London in the year 1653. so that the Synod of Charenton could not condemn them upon that account but merely for refusing to acknowledg that an entire Dependence and Submission was owing to Synods As for the Synod of Sainte-foy proceeded he if all the business had been no more than illustrating and explaining their Articles as Mr. Claude would have it what need these have been inserted in the Confession of Faith Could not this be done by an Act of a Synod without altering the Confession It is sure their design was to express that Article concerning the Lord's Supper in such ambiguous terms as both sides had agreed upon and each might interpret to his own advantage which hath been an expedient often attempted but to no purpose Now this is in reality not barely to explain and illustrate the Confession of Faith and by that means settle a mutual Toleration but down right to alter it And now added he all that men have to do is but to consider with themselves what opinion they ought to entertain of a Confession of Faith which a whole National Synod consented to alter That the matter between Mr. Claude and him was at last come to such a pass that the truth must presently appear on one side or other That the Principle asserted by Mr. Claude was a Principle of Pride and intolerable Presumption For is not this the very extremity of Pride that mere single private Persons should fancy themselves wiser and better able to understand the Scripture than a whole Ecclesiastical Assembly a whole Council put together And yet this was the unavoidable consequence of his opinion which allowed private Persons a Priviledge and Freedom to examine the decisions of Councils That an entire submission to the Church's judgment and a full and implicite Obedience to that was much more reasonable and argued more of Christian Humility than mens taking upon them to amend its Decisions It being now Mr. Claude's turn to speak he told them That their Discipline did indeed order such as refused submission to be Excommunicated after the last and final resolution had been given according to the Word of God in a National Synod Assembled But it was no part of the Discipline's meaning that this submission was due to the Authority of that Assembly abstractedly and as such but as he had before observed to the Authority of Gods Word according to which the Assemblies decision was to be formed and this ever implies an Examination The Excommunication therefore was just only upon supposal that the Word of God had been followed and never else That the Excommunications pronounced by Councils had not really any thing of Justice or Efficacy except when their determinations were founded on God's Word and when they were not so their sentences of Excommunication were unjust and returned directly upon the head of those that thundered them out according to St. Paul's Maxime If we or an Angel from Heaven preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you let him be accursed That if the Church of Rome pretended to no more than this our dispute with her would be at an end because then every man would still be priviledged nay obliged to examine whether the Decisions be agreeable to God's Word or no and consequently whether the Excommunications upon them be just or unjust That it was with this temper of mind that the Synod of Dort had condemned not the men whose Persons they never anathematiz'd at all but their Errors by demonstrating they were contrary to express Texts of Scripture That for his own part he lookt upon that as a very just Excommunication but the reason why he did so was that he saw it was founded upon Scripture and not upon the Authority of the Assembly themselves That it was true the Independents had once an extraordinary Assembly in the Year 1653. for the adjusting their Confession of Faith but however they did commonly disavow the use of Colloquies and Synods and for this very reason the Synod of Charenton condemned them and not for refusing a blind and absolute Obedience to what the Assemblies should decree in matters of Faith as by the Act it self is abundantly evident For the Synod of Sainte-Foy I cannot imagine said he why you will needs have it to intend an alteration in the Confession of Faith I mean as to any essential part of it for National Synods are not at all impowered to do this and if that at Sainte-Foy had ever attempted it all the Protestants in the Kingdom would have disclaimed the thing I own they had power to put illustrations and explanations into an Act and you must own too that they had the same power to put them into the Confession and when the same thing is capable of being done different ways men are free to make choice of that which they esteem the most fitting and convenient Here M. de Condom interrupting Mr. Claude told him it was certain that Synod had thoughts of couching the Article of the Lord's Supper in ambiguous expressions and this was the design of the Mediators That there was mentioned a power to decide all points of Doctrine which had a manifest relation to the Real Presence as held by the Lutherans Mr. Claude replyed that to tax the Synod with a design of agreeing upon ambiguous expressions was a mere conjecture of M. de Condom for which he offered not the least proof and that he for his part guessed the quite contrary that he did not at all question but the Synod intended to do all that could be done for reducing the Lutherans to a full knowledge of the truth and this was the meaning of that power given them to decide all Doctrinal Points with them that is to do it by the Word of God Then resuming the method of his Discourse he made answer to what M. de Condom alledged that it was intolerable Pride for mere single private Persons to fancy themselves wiser and better able to understand Scripture than a whole Ecclesiastical Assembly together He told him then that single and private Persons ought by no means to think so highly of themselves as to fancy they were wiser and better able to understand Scripture than a whole Assembly together That on the contrary they should presume favourably of an Assembly and retain a disposition to be taught by it But still this was no Argument that they should not continually have their Eyes open to discern whether an Assembly had really discharged their duty imitating herein those â—eraeans of whom it is said that they compared what St. Paul Preached with the Scriptures searching whether those things were so That we must distinguish between a Judgment of humility and charity which concludes 〈◊〉 probably and a perswasion of Infallibility which concludes necessarily and certainly Thâ—â— according to the Judgment of Charity and Humility we must think the best of an Assembly nay
even of a private Doctor but in as much as both Assemblies and private persons are liable to mistakes a man must not carry on this Judgment of Charity and Humility so far as that he should suffer himself to be blinded by it and when an Assembly or Doctor have really erred not to see it for this would be to stretch things beyond their due bounds For instance said he in the capacity I am in over my Flock it is mens duty to presume favourably of me that I understand the meaning of Scripture better than plain private Persons but for all that they are by no means bound to think me infallible nor fancy it impossible I should ever be mistaken in a point of Doctrine and in such a case a plain private Person is priviledged to think he could understand the Scripture better than I. Private Doctors says Al de Condom are not at all concerned in our Dispute all the World knows private Doctors may err and consequently they can have no title to an absolute obedience The Controversie is concerning the whole Body of an Ecclesiastical Assembly and I expect from you a clear distinct answer to this particular whether you believe single private men can understand the meaning of Scripture better than the whole Body of the Church convened in a Council Mr. Claude replied That he only mentioned private Doctors as an Argument that Christian Humility should not be abused nor made a pretence for men to deny themselves the benefit of their own Eyes that so they might avoid Pride and Presumption For if by M. de Condom's own Confession private Doctors have no right to an absolute Obedience it is neither a proud nor presumptuous Imagination that it may possibly happen we should understand Scripture sometimes better than they tho for the main we are bound to presume in favour of them and that in probability it will be otherwise The case is the same with Assemblies for even these being not Infallible ought not to challenge an absolute Submission and such as God alone hath a just right to That no less a Person than St. Paul hath declared That he had no Dominion over the Corinthians Faith M. de Condom said that quotation was impertinent and desired to know of Mr Claude whether he was not of opinion that an absolute obedience was due to St. Paul The absolute obedience replied Mr. Claude which was due to St. Paul was so to his Divine Doctrines and not his person No more said M de Condom do we pretend that men ought to pay this obedience to the persons of men whereof the Councils consist but to the Holy Ghost by which they are guided according to that profession of the Council at Jerusalem It seemed good unto the Holy Ghost and to us When the Holy Ghost appears in the determinations of Councils as he did in St. Paul's Doctrine and that of the Jerusalem Council then said Mr. Claude this Obedience must be paid never else And this appearance of the Holy Ghost consisteth in the Councils decisions being framed according to the Word of God Still M. de Condom urged that the dispute was not concerning the Word of God but the true meaning of that Word That distinction says Mr. Claude signifies nothing at all because the true meaning of the Word of God and the Word it self are but one and the same thing Then M. de Condom returned to the business of the Independents and urged that according to Mr. Claude's principle there was no remedy for the avoiding Independency nor any prevention that there should not be as many different Religions as Parishes nay as many as there be single persons That the Independents did not cast off Assemblies so far as concerned instruction only they did not allow them in any Authoritative decisions and that in this the Pretended Reformed agreed with them He beat upon this over and over again for a long time together to all which Mr. Claude return'd the same answer he had done before viz. That there was not indeed any humane means of Certainty and Infallibility which could prevent the exorbitant errors of mens minds but there was a certain and infallible Divine one even the Holy Spirit of God imparted to his True Believers That Synods and other Assemblies were means of mighty use and very proper for this purpose and the Independents condemnation was for rejecting these last and not for refusing to Assemblies a full and Absoute Power of determining matters in Controversy That although the Protestants did not allow such Assemblies a supreme and unbounded Authority yet they did allow them as much as the Ministers and Dispensers of God's Word are capable of At this rate said M. de Condom then we shall never have done disputing I ask you therefore once more Sir whether you believe that single and private persons can understand the meaning of God's Word better than the whole Church convened in Council Mr Claude told him he had answered that Question already to wit that it does not usually fall out so and that further 't is our duty to hope the best of an Ecclesiastical Assembly but still it might come to pass that through the prevalency of mens passions and worldly Interests the decisions of such Assemblies might be contrary to Truth You must not run back thus to Interests and Passions said M. de Condom but answer my question in one word by saying either Yes or No. Mens Passions and worldly Interests said Mr. Claude are premised here with a great deal of Reason because these are the main things that occasion erroneous determinations but since you are not willing to hear of them my answer must be with this distinction That God does not suffer it commonly so to be but absolutely speaking it is possible it should be so M. de Condom said that was as much as he desired and that it was the most absurd thing in the World to believe it so much as possible for a single Man and a private person to understand the meaning of Scripture better than the whole Church met together in Council Mr. Claude replied that he was amazed to hear M. de Condom cry out upon That as such a mighty absurdity which resulted merely from the freedom used by God in dispensing his Grace That supposing the Controversy to concern such means of knowledg as are purely humane it would indeed be absurd to say that a single and private person should be wiser than a whole Assembly and that this would be then a principle of pride and presumption But the matter now treated of is the illumination of the Holy Spirit which bloweth where it listeth and God can give it to a private single person and yet not give it to a whole Assembly That of this there was an eminent instance in our Saviours time as he himself said I thank thee O Father Lord of Heaven and Earth for that thou hast bid these things from