Apostle saith that as liuely stones they were made a spirituall house yet he saith not that euery one among them was so and those that were he declareth from whence it came to wit Iesus Christ. In which matter if no further purity be ment by the author we do agree as also that euerie one hath his burthen his order being boūd to edifie one an other exhort reproue and comfort one an other louingly as being members of one bodie and faithfully as in Gods sight The neglect of these duties hath bred nourished continued this late pestilent schisme amongst vs. That the affecting of offices the wresting or neglecting of laws peruerting of truth are not incident to the church is newes too good to be true as shal appere euen by the selfe same places of scripture which here are set in the margent as good proofes of the authors follies whiles that they do so flatly gainesay that which they should iustifie For manie make merchandize of the word 2. Cor. 2. 17. And Diotrephes loueth to haue the preheminence 3. Iohn 9. then is there affecting of offices In the latter times some shall speake lies through hipocrisie and haue their consciences burned with an hot iron 1. Timoth. 4. 2. And some desiring to make a faire shew in the flesh constraine men to be circumcised Galat. 6. 12. then is there peruerting of trueth The Corinthians were negligent in proceeding against the incestuous person 1. Cor. 5. then is there neglecting of lawes VVhat shall we then say to this man who woulde make the world beleue that the scriptures do confirme that which they do so directly and plainely deny Let him pronounce the sentence vpon him selfe He saith The prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath Gods word let him speake Gods word faithfully Ier. 23. 28. and so say I for it is a vile abuse that is offered to God and man when a dreame or fancie is countenaunced with the scriptures which doe ouerthrow it What is the chaffe to the wheat Timothie durst not thus behaue himselfe in Gods house 1. timoth. 3. 15. Euerie member of the church say they ought to haue freedome to vtter his complaintes and griefes yea and not disturbing the peaceable order of the church by passing the boundes of his calling to reproue transgressions and errors this we grant of our owne accord not being vrged hereunto by any thing mentioned 1. Corinth 6. or 14. 30. which proue it not but that the estate of the visible church is such that euerie member hath alwaies this freedome we deny it Also we say that as there may be intrusion or climing vp an other way into the sheepefold through mens corruptions then by the election of those to whome election doth belong so woulde it be a horrible cōfusion if the election of offices were left in the hands of the people as in this platforme of discipline they doe teach vs but that the people should haue their interest in ordination also is more then grosse For proofe whereof I will not stand vppon those places of Paule 1. Tim. 5. 22. lay not thy hand rashlie on anie man and Tit 15. for this cause left I thee at Creete that thou mightest appoint Elders in euerie citie because that although they flatly gainesay the ordination of Elders by the people yet they seeme not sufficient vnto some to infringe the libertie of the people in election also because that Luke shewing howe Paule and Barnabas appointed Elders in the churches saith that they did it by consent And it is not to be thought saith Caluin that Paule did grant a greater liberty to Timothie and Titus then he tooke vnto himselfe for which purpose is also alleged Ciprian who would vt sacerdos plebe presente sub omnium oculis deligatur atque dignus atque idoneus publico iudicio cōprobetur that the priest when the people are present be chosen in the sight of all be approued to be sufficient meete by common consent Vnto all which I say that euen these authorities of Luke Caluin and Ciprian do flatly deny that election should be made by the people for Praeesse electioni debere alios pastores nequid vel per leuitatē vel per mala studia vel per tumultū à multitudine peccetur Other pastors ought to rule the election lest the multitude faile either through lightnes or by euill practises or tumult so that howsoeuer it be granted by these places cited that a wise people ought to haue their cōsent in election yet if they be tumultuous ill cōditioned or void of grauity as generally the cōmon sort are fautie in one of these then ought other pastors to rule yea and ouerrule thē Those churches also which by the iudgement of our author himselfe are most reformed who admit not any thing of weight to be don inscia vel inuita ecclesia yet whatsoeuer pertaineth to the state of the church they haue the same disposed by the cōmon counsel of the Elder ship so that election is in their power the people consenting vnto them And therfore not to presse the authority of Chrisostom writing about the yere of our lord 500. saith flatly that neither people nor Elders were to elect a bishop or a minister but the bishop only neither election much lesse ordination ought to be at any time in the hands of the multitude furder then in giuing cosent vnto the pastors nor at all to be regarded if they be such as before haue bin mentioned and therfore as these men are vaine in arrogating more then this so are they vaine in censuring the churche of Englande for that it leaueth not this election vnto the people whose ignorance is generally great for want of instruction whose heads are generally very tumultuous by the meanes of such as this our author is VVhy are not they a holie and free people Indeede when Corah and his companie had gathered them selues togither against Moses and Aaron they said Ye take too much vpon you seeing all the congregation is holie euerie one of them and the Lord is among them But I doubt I should iniurie Corah by comparing these men vnto him for he vnder the pretense of holinesse and freedome sought onely to be priuiledged from submission but these our men vnder the same vaile content not thēselues herewith but in their aspiring minds do seeke to bring not the gouernement of the church onely but of the weale publike also into their handes for obtaining where of they lay this platforme first that priuatmen are to erect and establish this gouernment of theirs and then it being erected that all matters both ciuill and ecclesiastical are to be ordered by the same The later of these two pointes wil be manifest hereafter in their description of an Elder who as they say must discerne betweene plea and plea c. And as touching the former point
may bee confirmed And if hee refuse to heare them then to declare the matter vnto the church which ought seuerelie and sharplie to reprehend grauelie to admonish and louinglie to perswade the partie offending shewing him the hainousnesse of his offence and the danger of his obstinacie and the feareful iudgements of the Lord. If this preuaile not to drawe him to repentance then are they in the name of the Lord Iesus with the whole congregation reuerentlie in praier to proceed to excommunication casting him out of their congregation and fellowship that is out of the couenant and protection of the Lorde for his disobedience and obstinacie and committing him to sathan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirite may be saued in the daie of the Lorde Iesus if such be his goodwill and pleasure Further they are to warne the whole congregation and all other faithfull to hold him as a heathen and a publican and to abstaine them selues from his societie as not to eate or drinke with him c. vnlesse it be such as of necessitie must needs as his wife his children and family yet these if they be members of the church are not to ioyne with him in anie spirituall exercise All this notwithstanding the church is not to holde him as an enemie but to admonish and pray for him as a brother prouing if at any time the Lord will giue him repentance for this power is not giuen them to the destruction of anie but to the edification and preseruation of all If the offence bee publike the partie is publikely to be reproued and admonished if he then repent not to proceede to excommunication Vt supra The repentance of the partie must bee proportionable to the offence viz. if the offence be publike publike if priuate priuate humbled submissiue sorrowfull vnfeined giuing glorie to the Lord. There must great care be had of admonitions that they be not captious or curious finding fault where none is neither yet in bitternesse or reproch for they were to destroy and not to saue our brother but they must be carefully done with prayer going before they must be seasoned with truth grauitie loue peace Moreouer in this church is an especiall care had by euerie member thereof of offences the strong ought not to offend the weake nor the weake to iudge the strong but all graces here are giuen to the seruice and edification of ech other in loue and long suffring Answere I thought it conuenient to ioyne al this togither being but one matter viz. the proceeding of the church and of euerie member thereof Concerning the which I say with them that God hath not onely giuen a charge to euerie member of the church to looke vnto his steppes that he refraine from offending his fellow members least thorough his owne default the church be prouoked to proceed against him but also hath prescribed vnto the Church her order of proceeding which order I grant to be here set downe in part namely so long as the conuersations of men are in question but in matters of faith these rules will faile for although it be the nature of man to erre in his errors we may not depriue him of admonitions yet if his error do proue an heresie after once or twice admonitiō at the vtmost he is to be reiected For a simple error may be healed but peruersnesse is incurable and the manner of his reiection is not in a bare forsaking of him but in restraining him least that by his false doctrine the simple sort be seduced I speake not now of the Magistrates authoritie who was commanded by the Lord to cut off the false prophet but I speake of the ecclesiasticall power which hath his warāt for the suppressing of such the order of whose proceeding is first admonition then excommunication afterwards to make the magistrate acquainted both with this euill and with his duety in proceeding against it for I will not vrge that of master Bullinger who seemeth to go farther in asking this question viz. if the church had onely authoritie to flie from and not to chastice an heretike how came it to passe that the Apostle Paul by the power of God depriued Elimas of his sight bicause he did stubbernly maintaine falshood and withstand the truth But this point of discipline hath in wisedome bene passed ouer least that our author shuld therin haue blamed both our teachers and our Magistrates for their to much lenitie in this schisme and heresie Now as touching the florish that is made with a great shew of scriptures in the margent it is more then childish not in regard of applying them though one or two of them might be amended but in respect of the vaine alledging of one scripture often as Matth. 18. 15. 16. Leuiticus 19. 17. 18. Prou. 10. 12. c. but he would haue vs to thinke that he is read in the scriptures and therefore busieth himselfe with iterating so manie quotations Brownist In this church is the truth purely taught surely kept here is the couenant of the sacraments and promises the graces the glorie the presence the worship of God Into this Temple entreth no vncleane thing neither whatsoeuer worketh abhominations or lies but they which are written in the Lambes booke of life But without this church shal be dogges and enchanters and whoremongers and murtherers and Idolaters and whosoeuer loueth and maketh lies Answere Here we haue described vnto vs the state wherein this visible church doth stand both in regard of the conenant betweene God and it and also in respect of the sanctimonie thereof in the sight of men As for the former of these it is to be granted but howsoeuer the promises are made vnto the church and the worship approoued of God is kept and retained therein yet may it fall out that some one member thereof may haue no interest in the promises as Matth. 22. 13. nor yet be a true worshipper of God as Eccles. 4. 17 And although the church hath this dignitie giuen vnto it thorow an especiall grace yet some one man who is not of the visible church may be partaker of the promises and a true worshipper of God as Naaman the Syrian and Iob in the land of Hus the visible church then being among the people of Israel As touching the other matter viz. that this church apparant is commended vnto vs both for the puritie thereof in it selfe and also for the vncleannesse of all those which are not members of the same It is a palpable grosnes to conceiue a sottish follie to publish such a dreame For are al they cleane which enter into the visible church these men themselues haue confessed the contrarie Are all the members of the visible church written in the lambs booke of life who
A PLAINE CONFVTATION OF A TREATISE OF BROVVNISME Published by some of that Faction Entituled A description of the visible Church In the confutation whereof is shewed that the Author hath neither described a true gouernment of the Church nor yet proued that outward discipline is the life of the Church Whereunto is annexed an answere vnto two other Pamphlets by the said Factioners latelie dispersed of certaine conferences had with some of them in prison Wherein is made knowen the inconstancie of this Sect what the Articles are which they still maintaine as also a short confutation of them There is also added a short ansvvere vnto such argumentes as they haue vsed to proue the Church of England not to be the Church of God LONDON Printed by Thomas Scarlet for William Wright 1590. TO THE RIGHT HONOrable Sir Thomas Henedge Knight Vize Chamberlaine to her Highnes Treasurer of her Maiesties chamber Chanceller of the Dutchie of Lancaster and one of her Highnes most honorable priuie Councell the comforts of this life and of the life to come COnsidring that right Honorable the making of many bookes doth breeda wearisomnesse with smal profit the councell of Salomon is to bee regarded who willeth vs to receiue admonition by his holie writings In regard whereof though hereticall pamphlets are dailie dispersed yet the wise are loth to answer thē as also lest that in answring the fole according to his follies they might seem like vnto him yet when silence hath hardned the factious and emboldned them to adde new supplies we learne that the foole is to be answered vnto his follies lest he seeme wise in his own conceit This burden I haue taken vpon me perhaps presumptuouslie but finding on the one side the learned vnwilling to deale with so sottish a schisme and on the other side that small learning wil be sufficient to ouerthrow so ignorāt a sect I haue bin the more bold in this mine attēpt for I preiudice not the wise herein who refuse this labor nor yet giue cause of discontētment to the simple for whose sake onely I haue done it if those with whom I deale find themselues grieued I regard it not onely if I may escape the censure of rash presumptiō in publishing this rude treatise vnder your honorable title I shall obtaine my desire I haue presumed to present it to your H. not for that I am able to bring forth anie thing worthie your H. acceptation but that I might obtain a defence for my self your H. might be moued to go on in furthering the Lordes building So shall God by your meanes be glorified his church comforted and euerie member thereof shall haue iust cause to continue their heartie praiers vnto God for your H. prosperitie with the increase of all heauenlie giftes graces of his spirit in this life for the assurance of your euerlasting ioy in the life to come Your Honors most humble in the Lord to command R. Alison TO THE READER HOwsoeuer earthly kingdoms do prosper best when peace is had yet the church of Christ which is his throne receiueth good euen by dissention Inde crescit Ecclesia vnde mundus deficit Therfore although a good agreement in al affaires ought to be regarded yet a dissent in religion doth sometime profit inasmuch as therby the faith of some is exercised the inconstancie of others is made manifest and the diligence of all those whom deep securitie hath not ouerwhelmed is much quickned vnto the serching of the truth The rent that is made by some hath confirmed this vnto vs by experience whiles that the constancie of such as are wise hearted is made manifest the vanitie of those that are vnstedfastly minded is laide open the godly are made acquainted with those ancient heresies whereof in times past they were both ignorant and carelesse The disturbances of our Church are many proceeding from one fountaine though they bee not all of one nature Satan hath sent them they are like vnto him disagreeing one with another and at iarre in themselues and yet are all opposite vnto the truth For the Atheists and Papists are at as great defiance one with another as euer was Herod and Pilate And the Anabaptists and Donatists condemne each the other for matters of religion as much as the Pharesies did the Saduces and yet as they could bee reconciled rather then the Church should inioy her peace so these will sooner iustifie one another than they will submit themselues vnto the truth But the bush which Msoses sawe perished not though it was compassed with a flame and the Church of God through his gracious prouidence doth stand fast though the securitie of Atheists the Idolatrie of Papists and the impietie of the rest haue threatned an ouerthrow yea it is now come to passe that although no heresie is without some fauourers yet the deuises euen of the most skilfull deceiuers haue bene so laid vpon that not one of those is thought vpon of sober mindes but with detestation I grant that men voide of reason may thinke reuerently of them because wee see the Donatist condemning Donatisme a schisme which hee himselfe vpholdeth which is a verie dronkennes though it bee without wine but wisedome is iustified of her children The Donatists in the yeere of our Lorde 290. or as some write 353. by their preposterous dealings disturbed the churches in all those partes where they remained With vaine impudencie they condemned all the Churches of God and affirmed that the Church was in the partes of Donatus onely Also in vpholding that the Church of Christ is without spot or wrinkle or grosse pollution they did falsely charge Coecilianus the Bishop of Carthage with certaine crimes taking occasion therevpon to separate themselues from the Church They did account the Sacraments to be no Sacraments if they were deliuered by one that approued not their schisme And therevpon though Donatus did not institute rebaptization yet his successors rebaptised those that came vnto them They taught that it was vnlawfull to seeke vnto the magistrate for aide in causes of the church because they were the Lords free people To be short that men are not to be compelled vnto good duties that they are to vow a constancie in their schisme that they were ready to prouoke the sword of the magistrate against themselues that they might brag of sufferings these and such like were the fruites of Donatisme Now Donatus the first author of this schisme was condemned for an heretique and his doctrine for hereticall in the daies of Constantine by the councel of Carthage and from time to time euer since it hath ben so accounted of not onely of the Church of God but also of such as abhorre the name but maintaine the doctrine of this schisme This is it that the malcontents of our age do greedilie hunt after the annoiance of our church condemne it and all other Churches that are not partakers of their
in the Title of this their treatise which matters if we can finde therein we will acquite them from schisme and heresie but if the discourse be not answerable vnto the Title they must returne vnto vs or else wee must acknowledge them to be not as they pretend but as they are Brownist As there is but one God and father of all one Lord ouer all and one Spirite so is there but one truth one faith one saluation one Church called in one hope ioyned in one profession guided by one rule euen the word of the most high The answere In this first sentence which heere is sette dovvne wee are giuen to vnderstande what there is to bee hoped for in that which followeth both for the matter and also for the manner of handling the matter if wee do but regarde the ende and scope thereof being altogither false yet packed vp with euident truthes that the certaintie of these might free the other of suspition The manner of dealing is to pester the margent with a cloud of witnesses to smal purpose onely they make the ignorant beleeue that he which gain-saith this booke doth speake against the word of God But how vainly this is done it will appeare by the examination of the particulars Seeing the nature and gouernment of the church say they is like vnto the Lord thereof it must be granted that as God is euer one and the same so is his church which professeth one truth holdeth one faith and is guided by that order which God hath reuealed in his word Our answere is that we do acknowledge one God the father sonne holy ghost his truth our faith and the meanes of our saluation to be vnchangeable we confesse likewise one catholike church which is the communion of saints which iointly and seuerally do confesse that saluation is obtained in and through Iesus Christ alone This church comprehendeth in it both angels and men the one sort continuing in the other sort restored vnto that estate wherein they stand and all obtaining this sentence of being perfitly righteous in and thorough the head of that church whereof they are members euen Iesus Christ our Lord. This is the church which they say must be guided by one rule euen the word of the most high Now we desire to know in what sence the word of the most high is taken for if they meane thereby the prouidence of God in which sence it is sometimes taken as Deut. 8. 3. Heb. 1. 3. we do agree in this clause also But the places quoted in the margent do shew that it is meant of the reuealed will of God contained in his word For Deut. 6. 25. Moses telleth the Israelites that the obseruing of all the commandements of the Lord their God wil be their righteousnes Paul Rom. 10. 8. saith that the worde of God was in their mouth in their hart euen the word of faith which vvas preached Againe 2. Tim. 3. 15. hee sheweth Timothie that the scriptures are able to make him wise vnto saluation thorough the faith that is in Christ Iesus Christ in the eight Chapter of Iohn and the one and fiftith verse affirmeth that if a man keepe his vvorde he shall neuer see death Lastly Iohn saith 1. Iohn 2. 3. By this vve knovv that vve know him if we keepe his commandements It is euident that these places do speake of the word of God which is giuen vnto vs to be our guide in this life for the gathering togither of the saints during their abode in this world but when life ceaseth the vse of this word of God doth cease in the Church of God as appeareth in the first to the Corinthians the thirteenth chapter and eight verse Colossians the first chapter and the three and twentith verse c. Therefore to say that the whole church that is both angels in heauen the faithfull departed out of this life and the godly remaining vpon the earth are all alike gouerned by this rule doth bewray either a foule ignorance or a foolish rashnesse VVhich rash ignorance if in this one matter it had shewed it selfe onely it had bene more tollerable then it can be when it alledgeth manie scriptures to prooue the truth so vnseasonablie as here it doth about the vnitie of the Godhead c. For the two first places the first chapter of Genisis and the first verse the twentith Chapter of Exodus and the third verse do mention God in regard of his soueraigntie ouer all things but they speake of him as the inheritour of mount Sion his Church wherefore that of saint Paul in the first to Timothie the second chapter and fourth verse might haue bene sufficient both for the proofe of this and also that there is but one truth one faith c Vnto the knowledge whereof it is the will of God that men should come and be saued By the way obserue that this place of Paul doth crosse that negatiue of theirs We denie say they that you are able to iustifie that faith which they beget their reason is because our worshipping of God is not ioyned with their discipline for we hold that faith which Paul approueth As for the testimonie which Paul giueth of Epaphroditus that he is his brother companion in labor and fellow souldier It is a weake proofe of that whereunto it is referred so is that of the Iewes saying that they haue all one father euen God which Christ denyeth vnto them in the verse next following These things are spoken not to call that into question which in it selfe is true but to shew what discretion hath bene vsed in the choise and alledging these scriptures But we will go forward Brownist This Church as it is vniuersally vnderstood containeth in it all the elect of God that haue ben are or shall be The answere Most certaine it is that the inuisible Church of God extendeth it selfe vnto all the beloued of God that haue bene are or shall be men and Angells beeing complete in him who is the head of all principalities and powers to wit Iesus Christ. VVe do agree herein yet it hath his warrant such as it is for it is here proued by the couenant made with Abraham Gen. 17. and by the vision of Iohn Reuel 7. 9. VVhich places do not proue the matter in as much as they speake of the restoring and preseruation of man onely and not of the whole bodie of the church The other three places alledged are lesse to purpose Peter 1. Pet. 1. 2. writeth vnto the church which was scattered ouer the face of the earth so that he speaketh not of the vniuersall church of God but of that which was in his age Paul saith 1. Cor. 10. 3. that the fathers did eate one spirituall meat But they were not the vniuersall church of God he speaketh only of those that were before him Christ prayeth for his Apostles Ioh. 17. 20. and not for them
Dan Achab who worshipped in the house of Baal Manasses and others did the people of God cease to be the church of God in no wise VVe grant that Gods ordinances ought to be regarded especially in matters concerning his worship but this is not the matter in question but whether the breaking of them by some one man can make the people of God to be no people vnto him for this is it that should haue bene concluded Next to this is alledged Iohn 6. 37. which place that it may the better be vnderstood we are to remember that in the verse immediatly going before Christ had said Ye haue seene me and beleeue not the he addeth All that my father giueth me shall come vnto me whereby he sheweth that the gift of faith is the free election of the father in Christ so that faith is a certaine testimonie of election to the faithfull The argument standeth thus No man can come vnto Christ and beleeue in him except it be giuen him of the father therefore euerie member of the visible church is holy Surely it is no maruell that the knowledge of the liberal sciences is condemned as an exercise of curious arts but if they knew these Arts no doubt they would be ashamed to abuse themselues others with such sencelesse kinde of reasoning Besides what meaneth this that to prooue the people of God faithfull are alledged scriptures that speake of holines as Esa. 62. 12. Deut. 14. 2. And now to proue their holinesse faith is mentioned If faith and holinesse be all one why are they noted as diuers with e f if they be not all one why is the handling of them thus confounded in one of these must be acknowledged a foule ouersight Then followeth to proue the holinesse of the church aforesaid Iohn 3. 14. 12. 32. both which places doe shew that Christ will draw his elect vnto him the first doth shew the meanes whereby this shalbe done namely by the ministerie of his word which is signified by his lifting vp the other place noting the time viz. after his death Now this is the force of this argument Christ bringeth men to beleeue in him therefore euery member of the visible church is holie I neede not stay in shewing how well this proofe is made we wil come to the last place for this matter cited which is that of Christ Luk. 17. 3. Looke to your selues and so proceedeth in shewing how reprehensions are to be vsed I cannot perceiue what moued the Author to alledge this place which pertaineth not to the matter except it were to make a shew in the margent amongst his other friuolous vain quotacions To proceede This faithfull and holy people is gathered in the name of Christ Iesus their onely king priest and prophet c. That Christ Iesus is our onely king priest and prophet and that the seruants of God in all their assemblies both publike and priuate do meete in his name is confessed but the manner of dealing with the scripture is not here greatly to be commended For how is the kingdome of Christ prooued for it is cited Gen. 44. and the tenth verse where Ioseph speaking to his brethren of the cuppe saith thus Now then let it be according to your words he with whom it is found shall be my seruant and yee shall be blamelesse Truely if a written coppie of this treatise being more ancient then the printed booke had not come vnto my handes wherein I see the same place quoted I should haue laide this fault vppon the Printer for I should neuer haue suspected a church builder to haue bene such a sencelesse prophaner of the word of God The other testimonies viz. Psal. 45. 6. Zac. 9. 9. Heb. 1. 8. are more plaine So for his priesthood the making intercession for his Rom. 8. 34. Ioh. 17. which is a part of that function and Heb. 5. 9. 8. 1. 4. 14. speaking of the whole office are to be accepted Now to come to his propheticall function for which is alledged Deut. 18. 15. which is not to be restrained vnto Christ for it promiseth vnto the church a continuall succession of teachers in all ages It is more to purpose which is alledged out of Matth. 17. 5. Heb. 1. 1. but as touching Gen. 14. 18. though it speaketh of Melchisedek who was king of Salem and a Priest and was a figure of Christ Heb. 7. 1. yet the place that is quoted hath small force in it selfe to proue that for the which it is brought This church also worshippeth him aright that is neither in a set forme of praier nor yet in that place where discipline is not established for we gather the Authors minde out of his owne writings So that he alloweth that for true worship which is by the direction of Gods spirit our onely helpe and vnder the established gouernement of Pastors c. Indeed God is a spirite and is to be worshipped in spirite and truth which cannot be done without his direction yet are there certaine outward helpes which God hath sanctified for the furthering of the weake in their special seruing of God as reading c. And if true worship cannot be performed without this gouernment then may not we iustifie euen their owne seruing of God for they thēselues do want this discipline Three places of scripture are here abused Exo. 20. 7. 8. Leuit. 10. 5. Ioh. 4. 23. for not one of them condemneth read prayers in any mā much lesse whol churches either for them or for want of this discipline True it is that the name of God must not be abused neither must his worship be prophaned as is euident to be seene in Nadab and Abihu who for their strange fire were consumed of the Lord not that he regardeth so much a cole of fire only he warneth men to take heede that they worship God according to his owne appointment But to the matter Did the sin of Nadab and Abihu cause Moses his people to be no church vnto God we may not so thinke The offenders receiued iust recompence for their sin the rest continued the seruants worshippers of God These proofs therfore faile in these points First they proue not that the false worship of one maketh a nullity before God of the whole cōgregation but shew the contrarie secondly they proue not a set forme of praier to be a taking of Gods name in vaine a prophanation of the sabaoth or a carnal worship but we say that this kind of worship is vnlike to that of Nadab Abihu because it is warranted in the word of God wherin I wil not vrge Nu. 6. 23. or Matth. 6. 9. which hauing bin aledged heretofore are turned aside with expounding the Hebrue coh the greek houtos after this manner or thus as if the place in Numery were the sum of al blessings the other in Matth. were only giuē for a direction in
vaine repetitions are not vsed by the Apostle But to go forward Brownist Their releeuers or widowes must bee women of sixtie yeeres of age at the least for auoiding of inconueniences they must be wel reported of for good workes such as haue nourished their children such as haue bene harberous to strangers diligēt seruiceable to the saincts compassionate and helpfull to them in aduersitie giuen to euerie good worke continuing in praiers and supplications night and day These must first be truelie proued then if they be found blamelesse administer c. Answere As concerning widowes we grant that they may be helpfull to the sicke but yet so burdensome vnto the rest that the reliefe of the poore whiles they are to bce maintained thereby shall be diminished so that they may more truly be called the relieued then relieuers Now for the necessitie of such in the church it is not proued out of Tim. 3. 10. nor yet out of anie place of Scripture else why For the L. knoweth the impossibility in hauing such in euery congregation in maintaining them the most that can be granted is that were the church possessed of such therwithall able to maintaine both them and these whome they were to attend vpon then would it be a great comfort to them all I spare to speake further of these only it may be obserued that the place cited to proue such an office in the church 1. Tim. 5. maketh nothing for it For Paule as the circumstanstances of the place doe shew speaketh of such as are to be succored by the church Honor widdows which are widdowes indeed that is which haue nede of helpe and so procedeth in shewing what they are which especially are to haue the relief of the church vz. such as by reson of their age and want of frends are not able to help themselues althogh in a godly affection they hate idlenesse but as for the yonger widdowes they are not to liue by the maintenance of the church least that idlenesse be maintained the mouthes of the enemies be opened against the truth the church be abused whiles the goods of the church be spent vppon those who make protestation that they haue no other comfort for to such only is the relief of the church to be giuen yet through the lust of youth do betake themselues to mariage again which thogh it be a matter lawfull in it self yet is it vnlawful to those that before God his church haue vowed the contrary and thus is this place expounded by Theophilact Ambrose Bullinger Claudius Guilliaud and others Thus haue we at the last the offices officers of a reformed church described so wel as our autor could of whom togither with his cōplices we may truly say as Adrianus spake on his death bed of his phisitions that they brought him to his end these reformers in their platforme here prescribed haue offred vs such a medicin that if the Church shoulde bee voide of sense and receiue it shee might in short time complaine that these her Phisitions had brought her to her end yet we must beleeue vpon paine of damnation that it is a good receit wherein they deale like vnskilful and vnconscionable Phisitions who promise a wonderfull cure rauishing the senses to conceiue much more to beholde what then to inioy so blessed a comfort and yet will minister that which will bee the bane of the patient Christ indeede hath shewed an outwarde gouernment vnto his church whereof although we are not capable partly by reason of mens insufficiencie to order it partly by meanes of the crookednes of the common sort who will not abide to be ordered by it but especially for that a whole nation cannot so easily be brought to that vniforme order as some one priuate congregation yet assuredly the neerer we come to this his ordinance the more heauenly is that harmonie and consent of ours And herein I will not staie in shewing how the laws of our Church of Englande haue prouided that in the congregations we should haue Pastors In the Vniuersities such as execute the office of doctors in bringing vp those in the knoledge of Gods word which may supplie the places that are void of teachers in the Churches in all places some to obserue the behauiors of men others to collect the reliefe of the poore c. because that I write not an Apologie for the Church of England onely I woulde haue men to see the gouernment of Brownisme what it is viz so far disagreing from the discipline of Christ that neither the frame of their building nor the builders themselues haue the approbation of Gods worde whereof they spake but in this their dealing are like vnto the Cuthits the rest who inhabiting Samaria falsely bragged that they were the children of Iacob and blindly deceiued thēselues with a false worship as may appeare by one of them I meane the woman of Samaria Iohn 4. For as the Lord had established his worship vppon mount Sion so one Manasses to aduance himselfe erected a temple vppon mount Gerazin the Iewes according to Gods appointment worshipped at Sion the Samaritans at Gerazin A cōtrouersie rose between them which of these people did best Christ sayth to the Samaritanes Yee worship ye wot not what yet they had a tēple a Priesthood and other ordinances which were kept at Ierusalem But who gaue Manasses authoritie to erect a temple assemble a people ordain c. These men came not so neere the discipline of Christ as the Samaritans did resemble the discipline at Ierusalem and Manasses being the sonne of the high Priest had as good a warrant for his proceedings as a priuate man might haue and yet his dealings were accursed Nowe when these mē faile both in this that they haue not authoritie to erect discipline and also if this were graunted in that they haue described a false gouernement we may not pronounce a blessing vppon them Brownist Now as the persons giftes conditions manners life and proofe of these officers is set downe by the holie Ghost so are their offices limited seuered and diuerse Answere VVee haue alreadie hearde both of the giftes and of the offices also of these seuerall callings for so our author doth confesse afterwardes Concerning which it is apparant that the Pastor and Doctor are so described as if there were no difference betweene them The Elder indeede is seuered from them both as if gouernment were peculiar vnto him alone and his commission is sette downe so large as if it were not limited The Deacons office may be diuerse from the rest but as yet we cannot finde it in that which he hath hetherto set downe VVe will therefore consider that which followeth For either to make his volume greater or to amende that which hath bene sayde hee fetcheth the matter about againe and notwithstanding hee hath told vs as he acknowledgeth what these offices are yet a good lesson cannot
be tolde too often we must bee content to heare it againe Therefore it followeth Brownist The pastors office is to feede the sheepe of Christ in greene and wholesome pastors of his word and leade them to the still waters euen to the pure fountain riuer of life he must guide and keepe those sheepe by that heauenly shephooke and pastor all staffe of the worde thereby drawing them to him therby looking into their soules euen into their most secrete thoughtes thereby discerning their diseases and thereby euring them applying to euerie disease a fit and conuenient medicine according to the qualitie and maladie of the disease and giue warning to the church that they may orderly proccede to excommunication Further he must by this his sheephooke watch ouer defend his flock from rauenous beasts and the wolfe and take the litle foxes c. Ansvvere It belongeth to the Pastor to fede the shepe to draw thē frō euil by the power of the word both in matters of faith manners of life to preserue them frō schismes heresies schismatikes heretiks and to giue notice of the wilful and obstinate persons that ecclesiasticall censure may proceede against them For proofe whereof the places alleaged must haue a gentle construction before they may be accounted indifferent For though Leuit 10. Num. 18. and Ezech. 44. do speak of the Priest Likewise Psalme 23. and Zach. 11. of Christ yet can they not properly be applied vnto the Pastor except we adde this that the Pastor must walke in the steps of the Priest and in the matters aforesayd bee a follower of Christe And that also Reue. 22. 2. forasmuch as it speaketh of the Church triumphant as the whole discourse doeth shewe it can hardly be brought to pertaine vnto the Pastor except wee saie that it is in regard that the ende of his ministerie is to bring the people of God vnto the assurance of this estate So that to fill the quotations vnto the matter wee haue great need of a friendly expositor Now in the office of a pastor heere is an addition to that which in the former place was mentioned that hee is to looke into the most secret thoughtes thereby discerning the diseases of his people which should seeme a heauy burthen for a man woulde thinke that the heart of man is a bottomlesse deepe and that no man could know the heart of man but the spirite that is in man and that God onely trieth the heart and the raines yet this is not so vnpossible as it doth appeare at the first sight For there are diuerse meanes which may bee be vsed for the readie attaining vnto the matter as the Papists for the same purpose had their auricular confession And yet there is a surer waie namelie to perswade the people as some haue beene taught it publikelie for sound doctrine that they may not come vnto the table of the Lord before they haue examined ned themselues of their secrete sinnes and also doe declare the same vnto the church that is not to the Priest as it was in poperie but to the Elders and people also and this is not a secrete butcherie of mennes soules as that was but an open tyrannising ouer the conscience Brownist The Doctors office is alreadie set downe in this description his especiall care must bee to build vpon the onely true ground-worke gold siluer and precious stones that his worke may endure the triall of the fire and by the light of the same fire reueale the timber haie and stubble of false teachers hee must take diligent heede to keepe the church from errours And further hee must aeliuer his doctrine so plainly simplie and purelie that the church may increase with the increasing of God and growe vp into him which is the head Christ Iesus Answere Our authors meaning is that the doctor do teach the truth and conuince the gainsayer All this we heard of before in the description of a doctor here then is no addition to supplie the wants of that discourse onely it is countenanced with a greater number of Scriptures then it had at the first and therein bewraieth a greater folly for the margent is pestered to no purpose For what doe these places cited tell vs Ezech. 33. 1. setteth out the dutie of a watchman 1. Cor. 11. 19. sheweth the necessitie of heresies Ioh. 10 11. speaketh of the shepheard Christ Leuit 10. 11. which also was alleadged for the pastor was spoken of the Priest as was Eze. 44. 24. and Mal. 2. 6. Paul 1. Cor. 1. 7. saith that the Corinths were not destitute of anie giftes Also in the 1. Cor. 2. 4. he speaketh of himselfe being an Apostle The two places of his Epistle to Timothie do shew his dutie in the Church of Ephesus where as these men saie hee had the function of an Euanglist Paul Ephe 2. 20. telleth them that they are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Heb. 6. and 1. Peter 2. 2. doe declare howe Gods people ought to growe vp more and more in the knowledge of Gods mysteries I see not how anie one of these places can directly prooue the office of a Doctor in the Church for either they do testifie the dutie of other callinges or else they shewe what matters are effected in the people by the ministerie of the pastor Now that place of Paul the first Epistle to the Corinthians the third Chapter and the eleuenth vearse I haue kepte it vntill the last place for that I finde it most of all abused not so much because it is restrained here to a Doctor and yet the Apostle spake it generally of all sortes of builders but for that the latter part of this Scripture is here expounded of false Prophets which is to bee vnderstoode of such teachers as alwaies keepe the foundation and builde in Christ howsoeuer thorough their frailtie and weakenesse they bee farre from that exacte puritie which is required in handling the worde of God Brownist The office of the ancients is expressed in their description their especiall care must be to see the ordinances of God truly taught and practised as well by the officers in doing their dutie vprightly as to see that the people obey willingly and readily It is their dutie to see the congregation holilie and quietlie ordered and no man disturbed by the contentious and disobedient froward and obstinate not taking away the libertie of the least but vpholding the right of all wiselie iudging of times and circumstances they must be readie assistantes to the pastor and teachers helping to beare their burthen but not intruding into their office Ansvver It should seeme that the drawer of this gouernement would haue the ecclesiastical censures onely to proceed frō the ancients or else he would in one place or other
then blotted out Cain Esau Corah yea and Israel it selfe Againe is it true that all those which are not vnder this gouernement are dogs c. I will not aske what shall become of these men themselues but what is become of Peter and the rest that remained with Christ and of all the churches of Ierusalem Ephesus Corinth and the rest which had not this gouernement and all these offices at any time among them for some wanted Deacons some widows some vnministring Elders some Doctors To draw to an end The scriptures that are alledged to proue these matters are either promises of that full redemption which is obtained and shall be perfited vnto the church in the day of Christs appearing as Esa. 52. 1. and 35. 8. and Reuelation 28. 27. or else are they types thereof as Eze. 44. and the ninth verse and Zacharie 14. 21. VVherefore they cannot proue the truth hereof in the visible church of God Also Reuel 22. 15. sheweth the estate of the vngodly which in the day of that generall search shall be thrust out of the presence of God VVhich matter Paul doth plainly shew Rom. 2. 9. for hee threatneth oppression and anguishe vnto euerie soule that doth euill whether Iew or Greeke that is whether of the visible Church or not In this one thing these men may be commended that seeing their assertions cannot bee warranted by the woorde of of God they will doe the best they can to make their sayings true in themselues For surely they coulde not possiblie giue ouer themselues vnto a doggish disposition as they do if they were not perswaded that in so dooing the conditions of men which haue cast off gouernement should in thē be made manifest vnto the world VVee are therefore to desire for them that discipline may be put in practise if happely they may bee brought to some good order Thus haue we seene how the Author of this Treatise hath failed in the perfourmance of his promise made in the title thereof A MANIFESTATION OF THE INCONSTANCIE of Brownisme grathered out of two Treatises lately dispersed throughout the land AThanasius speaking of the Eusebian hereticke saith that if once he tast the Arrian schisme he will neuer refraine his tongue from vngodlinesse He noteth it also as a common disease in all heretikes that they will be constant in a peeuish wilfulnesse least they should be condemned of those whom they haue seduced yet in all other things inconstant Nunc probantes quod dicunt mox vero vituperātes quod dixerunt ac rursum approbantes quod paulo ante calumniabantur It is no maruell therfore though the factioners of our age hauing auouched their owne dreames to be the truth of God do now cry out y t they are blasphemed abused slādered if the same be laid to their charge yet in discoursing vpon the self-same matters they wil not stick to iustifie their first conceipts al which may appeare to him that readeth the two pamphlets lately by them published the one intituled A collection of certaine slanderous Articles and the other A collection of certaine articles and conferences c. For in these bookes we shall finde the certaintie of doctrine what it is amongst conceited diuines And that the truth may be more euident I wil set downe first their Articles which sometimes they did hold and now are charged with Secondly the sore complaints that they make of being slandered with them by our Bishops Thirdly what small cause they haue to complaine considering that they are now resolute to defend the same Articles vnto the death And lastly the fondnesse of their assertions which for the auoiding of tediousnes shalbe done either by referring the Reader vnto those places where these matters are handled elsewhere or else by plaine and euident proofes The Articles which are so iniuriously imputed vnto them as they themselues haue published are these 1 THat it is not lavvfull to vse the Lords praier publikelie in the church for a set forme of praier 2 Secondlie that all set and stinted praiers are meere babling in the sight of the Lord not to be vsed in publike Christian assemblies 3 Thirdly that the publique praiers and vvorship of God in England as it is by lavv in the church of England established is false superstitious popish and not to be vsed in anie Christian congregation 4 That the Church of England as it is novv established is no entire member of the church of Christ. 5 That the gouernment of the church of England as it is novv established is no lavvfull gouernement nor christian but antichristian and popish 6 That the Sacraments of baptisme the Lords supper as they are administred in the church of England be not true sacraments 7 That infants ought not to be baptised according to the forme of baptisme ministred novv in the church of England but are rather to be kept vnbaptised 8 Manie of them make scruple to affirme that the Queenes maiestie hath supreame authoritie to gouerne the church of England in cases ecclesiasticall and to make lavves ecclesiasticall not contrarie to Christs lavves 9 That the lavves ecclesiasticall alreadie established by the authoritie of the queene realme be not lavvfull 10 That if the Prince or magistrate vnder her do refuse or defer to reforme such faults as are amisse in the church the people maie take the reforming of them into their ovvne hands before or vvithout her authoritie 11 That the presbiterie or eldership maie for some causes after admonition if there ensue not reformation excommunicate the Queene 12 That the Church of England as it novv standeth by lavv established professeth not a true Christ nor true religion that it hath no ministers in deed nor Sacraments in deed Now they complaine that they are much abused in being charged with these matters for the title of one of the Treatises is A collection of certaine slanderous articles giuen out by the bishops against such faithful Christians as they now vniustly detaine in their prisons c. The Epistle saith that there are spersed abroad throughout the land certaine articles of the bishops owne deuising against these men to bring them into hatred vvith the vvhole land The Author in answering the said Articles termeth them forged positions Again God forbid saith he that our Magistrates should be guiltie of our innocent blood by such slanderous reports To be short master Barrow as he himselfe reporteth complained to Doctor Androwes that he hath bene greeuouslie slandred blasphemed and accused by spearsed articles c. therefore a great fault there is in those which offer these persecuted Christians for so they terme themselues this great iniurie or else in them who if the Black-amore could change his hue would deny their owne opinions but if they giue the lie vnto vs without iust cause as it shall appeare that they do by that which followeth and maintaine these things which thus confidētly they haue denied
church only but all others also that are not framed according to their rule I will answere them therefore in that order which the author hath vsed in drawing these matters into arguments The first argument of theirs is this Brownist Their church consisteth not of a companie of faithfull people but of multitude of prophane people therefore they are not the true church Ansvvere Seeing the propositions both of this and the arguments following are set downe before it should seme that of purpose they are nowe omitted yet to make the matter plaine the argument is after this manner The true planted and right established church of Christ is a company of faithful people but the church of Englande is not a companie of faithfull people Therefore not a true planted and rightly established church Whereunto I answere that the assumption is with great insolency set downe as if magistrates ministers people were without exception of any a flocke of goates a companie of hell hounds Likewise the proposition sauoreth of Anabaptistry whiles it admitteth none to be members of the visible church but faithfull people onely But concerning the assumption I grant that some of Cain his brood of Cham his conditions and of Esau his qualities are in our church euen as there are amongst these persecuted Christians some of the schollers of Shimei some of Corah his company some Ismaels c. Herein is the difference betweene their church and ours that we account of such beastes as they are though wee labour by the worde and other meanes to bring them vnto repentance but if their Atheists can but say that discipline is good though they knowe not what it meaneth if they wil heaue at magistracy raile vpō the established gouernement they must be presently canonized registred in the booke of the faithfull whatsoeuer their conditions are otherwise In the proposition I see nothing which hath not beene answered pag. 12. c. only here are certaine scriptures cited in the margent so farre from proouing the matter in question that if they be vnderstoode of euery member of the visible church to prooue them faithfull we may with as good reason from the same places conclude that neither the publike ministerie nor priuat admonitions are to be vsed in the visible church for these are the wordes of Ieremie And they shall teach no more euerie man his neighbour and euerie man his brother saying knowe the Lorde for they shall all knowe me from the least of them to the greatest of them saith the Lord for I vvill forgiue their iniquitie c. Brownist They haue made no separation from the heathen of the lande but all are receaued and retained in the bosome of their churches therefore c. Ansvver This is the argument The true church is a company of people separated from the vnbeleeuers heathen of the lande but the church of Englande hath made no separatlon c. therefore c. The proposition is denied if such a separation be vnderstoode as is spoken of Matth. 25. 32. as hath bin proued pag. 11. 12. c. but if they take it as it is in the place by them selues alleaged Leuit. 20. 24. we do grant it for Israell is there said to be separated from that heathen yet was it not separated from all vnbeleeuers onely it was in respect of their outward profession The assumption in the former sence is granted but otherwise it is euident to be a meere slander for neither are any receaued into our church except they ioyne with vs in outward profession neither are their children baptized except the parents or some for the parents do promise to see thē brought vppe in the knowledge of God and faith in Christ Iesus But they proue this assumption after this sort They vvere all say they by the blovving of her maiesties trumpet at her coronation in one day receiued vvithout conuersion of life by faith and repentance and they and their seede euer since generallie receaued to your sacramentes without any separation from the world Before I make answere vnto this assertion I would learne if I might how these men would haue the people to come vnto an established church at the first For they tel vs 1. That there can be no true church vntill euerie member therof hath by faith and repentance separated himselfe from the vnbeleeuers But how shall they come vnto this faith for they tell vs also 2. That none can haue true faith and repentance but such as are called thereunto by the preaching of the gospel And how shall they haue this Gospel preached vnto them 3. There must be sheepe before there can be a flocke there must be a flocke before there can be a shepheard because the people must choose their Pastor so that they affirme that the people must be brought to the faith before they can haue a Pastor and yet they cannot haue faith vvithout preaching Which way then shall this preaching be had for the attaining vnto faith The Magistrate say they ought to compel the Infidels to heare the doctrine of the church and also vvith the approbation of the church to send forth meete men vvith gifts and graces to instruct the Infidels being yet no ministers or officers vnto them but in the time of Poperie they affirme that the people could not be the church therefore I would be resolued in these two points First where the magistrate in such a case shuld haue a church to giue consent vnto his sending forth of such teachers to instruct infidels And thus haue they led vs about haue brought vs to the same place where we were at the first And secondly what they are which thus are sent by the magistrate and the church if not ministers of the word vnto those infidels whom they teach and herein we require an answere by the word Now to our assertion concerning our turning from Poperie at the blowing of her maiesties trumpet I doubt not but this will be graunted that some of Q. Maries subiects beleeued and made a bold confession of their faith who to the ioye of all christian hearts in the lande remaine in our church vntill this daie Others there were like vnto Nichodemus in his comming to Christ by night and in his faint defending of the truth who if the Lord should for our vnthankfulnes send a scourge wold with Nichodemus make a bolde confession of their loue to Christ Iesus So that all were not Pagans that embraced the Gospell at the sounding of her maiesties trumpet beeing faithfull the seales of the couenant did pertaine vnto their seed But some it may be ioyned for feare in the outward profession who these were the searcher of mans heart doth know So did Ismael in Abrahams house Caine in Adams house and these vnfaithfull Israelites vnder Iosua when at his only commandement they were all circumcised There was therefore such a separation at her maiesties