Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
Text snippets containing the quad
|
ID |
Title |
Author |
Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) |
STC |
Words |
Pages |
|
A40256
|
Something in answer to a book called Fiat lux being a discourse between a papist and a Protestant &c. who writes at the bottom of the title page, J.V.C. : also something in answer to the papists queries.
|
Fox, George, 1624-1691.
|
1667
(1667)
|
Wing F1910; ESTC R25206
|
11,959
|
18
|
Something in ANSWER To a BOOK called Fiat LUX BEING A Discourse between a Papist and a Protestant c. who writes at the bottom of the Title Page J.V.C. ALSO Something in Answer to the Papists QUERIES London Printed in the Year 1667. Something in Answer to a BOOK CALLED FIAT LUX HE speakes in his 20th Page Of waging of War Battel and Contention like Boys and Dogs in the Streets who tear and devour one another such as are jumpt up together unheard of c. Answ Hath not this been your condition who have started up after the Apostles Or were ever the Papists heard of with all your Body of Inventions in the Apostles dayes that be like Boyes and Dogs fighting and tearing to pieces others that will not conform to your trifling Traditions and empty Ceremonies Yea and with such as follow the Apostles Doctrine and do not presume above what is written according to the Apostles Doctrine and because such cannot submit to your Rudiments which you have presumptuously set up Have you not burnt many to ashes which is far worse than Boyes and Dogs c. And whereas thou queriest in Page 29. Whether the Word of God came to you Quakers c. Or Came it to you only c. Answ The Word of God came unto us before we preached it which is the same which was among the Apostles and is the same which was yesterday to day and for ever But you Papists and Protestants and others are gone from this never changable Word as is manifest by your trifling Traditions who hold them up by carnal Weapons contrary to the Apostles and the Quakers which are spiritual And whereas thou queriest Whether the Gospel came to the Pope and Papists first We answer No. For the Gospel of Christ which is the Power of God was preached to Abraham but the fruits of you Papists and others have denyed your selves to be in this Gospel to wit the Power of God which brings Life and Immortality to Light by your dark Inventions and Traditions Persecutions and Oppressions which is not nor was not the Gospel-Practice as look among the Apostles writings in the Primitive Church and see how far you are degenerated from them And thou sayest That the Spirit the Word the Lord the Light and such like are Motives of a new Fancy Answ To the Papists and others like unto them that be out of the Spirit Light Word and the Lord and have cast him and the Apostles behind their backs and followed their own Inventions and have persecuted one another for not observing them who are in your fancies the Spirit Light Word and the Lord are new fancies to you but to us they are substance who set up and tolerate your lies by your Laws and prefer them before the Lord his Spirit Word Light and Truth which were and are the Guide of the Righteous to this day amongst whom your Inventions were never heard off before your day which all are to beware of And Them that be Hereticks thou sayest are to be checked twice or thrice and then to be avoided To which we Answer This hath not been the Papists practice to them that you suspect to be Hereticks that joyn not to your Popish wayes for you Burn and Persecute them to Death but if you had left them after you had admonished them ye had done something according to Scripture but on the contrary you shew thereby that you have no Love to Enemies no Sun to shine upon the Unjust not having the mind of Christ nor of his Apostles nor no Sons of God but of the Pharisees brood And whereas thou speakest of the Church Interpreting Scriptures How can the Papist Church Interpret Scriptures when the Jesuites have said to our faces that they have not the same spirit that the Prophets and Apostles had And seeing Christ saith The Spirit of Truth shall lead you into all Truth and the Apostle saith That no man knoweth the things of God but the Spirit of God And John saith in the Revelationss to the Churches Hear what the Spirit saith There fore the Papist Church not having the same Spirit they cannot interpret Scriptures so they are judged out of their own mouthes And the Spirit of God doth lead to hate the works of the Devil who was a lyar from the beginning and all his Children do his will and who have done his will more then the Papists yea worse than the Pharisees for they never invented so many Racks and Tortures as ye have done and burnt so many to ashes since Boneface the third the Universal Pope set up by Phocus the Emperour And so ye that scoffe at the Light c. not having the same Spirit and Power as the Apostles had you 'l Rack and Torture and Imprison and Burn to ashes your Friends for how can ye discern them not having the same Spirit the Apostles had We think you Papists Protestants Presbyterians Independants and Baptists might agree for they confess the same that you do viz. That they have not the same Spirit the Apostles had then ye have another for there is but two Spirits and it 's much ye should make such a noise one against another and cannot agree But your Inventions are old and theirs are new and both things in Gain to you which maintains your Lusts and that raiseth your war one against another which they that are in the Spirit the Apostles were in see over you all and they that be in the Spirit have both Visions and Prophesies and by it hath Miracles been wrought which some of your Generation hath said as the Pharisees did to Christ That they were wrought by the power of the Devil And whereas thou sayest Page 51. The Roman Catholicks brought the news of Christ and Christianity into the Land first Answ We say No. Christ and Christianity was brought into this Land of England by Joseph of Arimathea and twelve Disciples sent by Philip the Apostle above 70 years after Christ which was many hundred years before there was any Universal Pope and many years before any Mass was set up And whereas thou speakest in Page 53 of such as say of Christ Loe he 's here Loe he 's there We Answer This is just your own condition for do you not make a Christ of Bread which you call your God and lift him up and when you have eaten up one you make another lift him up and carry him about streets crying The Hoast and call it the Sacrament of the Altar and when you have eaten him up also do you not make another and cry Loe here loe there is Christ But the Quakers when they have received Christ preach him as the Aposties did when the Son of God is revealed in them c. And Jobs words now adayes are not so easie to answer as thou thinkest for why have not you Papists answered all the Quakers Queries that have been put to you Thou mayest say We want Queen Mary
is able to bring him down again for he is of the Image part Iron part Clay which I would have him to expound What good doth your Confession do where there is not amendment For what People under the Sun are more Envious Proud Drink Swear Curse and many unclean Actions found in and amongst as yours be And whereas thou sayest Page 232. The Confession nor any beginning thereof cannot be found out Answ Therefore you go upon a foundation which had 〈◊〉 bottom for in the beginning in the Primitive times the Apostles did not set up any Confessors therefore you are shut out of their Practice And whereas thou speakest Of inflicting penalties of Scourging or Death upon Delinquents though they be never so sorry for their Offence Answ In this is much Ignorance because that you and others have persecuted one another to Death because you would not conform to one anothers Religion which shews you are like Nebuchadnezzar and worse then the Jewes in some respect for did they Persecute any of the Heathen to death because they would not joyn to their Religion Though in one respect you are like unto the Jewes who said Come let us kill the Heir and the Inheritance shall be ours And were not they called Murderers And have not you crucified Christ afresh and put him to an open shame As instance the Pope Eugenius who caused the King of Poland to break his Oath and League with the Turk upon which he lost a great part of Christendom who seldom got any thing by fighting or plotting with his Carnal weapon But if the Papists had been true Christians they would have loved one another and have loved Enemies But there is no mercy from you although a man be never so sorry for his Offence but Death and Scourging but thy thoughts and mind are not the Lords who desireth not the death of a sinner but would have him repent and live And therefore What hast thou to do to take the Name of the Lord into thy mouth and hatest to be reformed And as for the Apostle Paul's words which he spake as in the person of Christ what is that to your practice who speak in the spirit of Satan as ye may look over your words and actions in Fox's Acts and Monuments and the Council of Trent and other Books who shewed another spirit and life than Christ and the Apostles for Christ came to save mens lives not to destroy them as ye have done who do not know what spirit ye are off And whereas thou speakest Of some places where the People are on their knees at Prayer all the week long and our Churches are not so in England Answ Ye were not at your Prayers all the week long when ye had power in England and were burning the Martyrs to ashes up and down at Stakes The Wolf is seen though he hath the Sheeps cloathing on his back thou canst not be hid but the wise and prudent see and comprehend thee and the prayers of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord. For hath it not been a Fist of wickedness that ye have lifted up these many hundred years Doth not and hath not your actions declared and spoken them abroad in the ears of sober People Where is the House of Prayer thou speakest of Is it the Temple at Jerusalem which thou art wandring to That 's down according to Christ's Prophesie And the Apostles say Our Bodies are the Temples of the holy Ghost and in the Holy Ghost we are to pray And is not that the Temple set above all houses made with hands and so the Apostle saith we must pray in the Spirit and so we must pray in the Temple but this I doubt thou canst not read with thy Spectacles on And whereas thou sayest Ye have kept your Mass and Bible in an unknown Tongue and yet you call your selves Catholick Answ This is not Catholick from the Apostle for he was against them that spake in an unknown tongue that was not to edification and he reproves it so ye are come under the reproof of the Apostle And the Apostle sent Epistles to be read to the Churches in their age and now you that have put the Bible in an unknown Tongue and kept your people under teaching ever since Boniface the third are not your People capable yet to have the Scriptures read to them in their own Tongue This manifests your Popish Teachers bad and your Peoples ignorance and your own deceit and fear of your selves if the people should have them in their own Tongue they would see you And whereas you make a distinction of Lay people and Spiritual and yet all Believers if they were so indeed they would be all born of God And the Apostles in the Primitive time made no such distinction as Lay people and Spiritual among Believers c. as ye do But ye have been in the dark and your works are all in the dark and so ye keep the Scripture from the people in their own Tongue whereby they might come to know the Truth And the holy Scriptures are a better Book than any ye can make which stands over you and your Mass Book As for all your perverting Scriptures thereby thinking to bend them to your Traditions and Images they that have a single eye fees it 's to no purpose And as for calling upon Saints Angels and Martyrs to pray for you to have mercy upon you for which you have neither Scripture nor Example from the Apostles And wheras thou ignorantly and pervertingly bringest Davids words and Daniels for the praying to Angels c. and the Sun and Moon David nor none of the Saints nor Martyrs of old did call to the Sun Moon Angels or Saints but they called for all things to praise the Lord for whilst they were living the Saints prayed one for another but to pray to Saints departed is like Sauls going to the Witch of Endor to ask counsel of the Dead which was forbidden by the Law of God So in this you are ignorant both of Law and Gospel Many other frivolous things thou hast in thy Book not worth reading or answering But one thing further whereas thou saiest The Church of Rome is the Mother Church Was not the Church of Jerusalem before the Church of Rome was Read the Scriptures And was not the Church at Constantinople preferred before the Church of Rome Read over the Histories again And for the Church of Rome being either Mother Church Holy Church or Church of God her actions and deeds testifie against her she 's none of the Church of Christ though she pretend for Christ yet she is against Christ his Faith Spirit and Life and so Antichrist her deeds and works have spoken it which all that be in the Light Spirit and Life of Christ have seen and heard And how can ignorant people but smile at you as thou saiest who make Bread and Wine God which will sowre and corrupt Some Scriptures follow here