THE ABATEMENT OF POPISH BRAGGS PRETENDING SCRIPTVRE TO BE THEIRS RETORTED BY THE HAND OF ALEXANDER COOKE LONDON Printed by WILLIAM IONES dwelling in Red-Crosse-streete 1625. TO ALL LAY PAPISTS IN THIS KINGDOME DEare Countreymen and seduced brethren I religiously protest I honour some of you and loue all of you Grieuing in my very soule that you and I acknowledging one and the selfe same true God cannot hit vpon the worshiping of him after one and the selfe same true manner Oh that I might liue to see the day wherein we might agree in one But I haue small hope to see it as long as you suffer your Priest to bring you in bondage to deuoure you to take your goods as the Corinthians suffered the false Apostles to ferue them Por as the leaders of the people caused Israel to erre and their shepheards caused them to goe astray turned them away to the mountaines so it is your Priests that haue misled you and that they may make merchandize of you as the false Prophets who in St. Peters dayes taught damnable heresies made of them who followed their destruction it is your Priests who doe hinder your returne into the right way To alienate your affections from vs they tell you That we teach All sinnes are equall All Scripture is very easie That we maintaine the heresie of the Simonians which was that men might bee saued by the grace of Simon Magus and the heresie of the Eunomians which was That whosoeuer beleeued one especiall point of doctrine which they beleeusd viz. That the Son of God is altogether vnlike the Father and the Holy-Ghost vnlike the Sonne could not possibly be damned how damnably soeuer hee liued They report wee maintaine the her esy of the Repusians which was That women might be Priested and one of the heresiesof Iouinian which was That a man truely baptized could sinne no more and another of the same mans which was That the Virgin Mary at the time of her child-birth lost her virginitie They report wee maintaine that heresie of Vigilantius which was That Clergy men ought of necessity to be married and that of the Pelagtans viz That the children of the faithfull are not tainted with originall sin and that of the Graecians viz That iust men shall not see the face of god before the day of dome and that of the Pseudo apostoli which was That onely faith is sufficient to saluation without workes and that of the Nouatians which consisted in dening the Churches power to forgiue sinnes and that of the Aérians to wit That solemne fasts are not to be appointed by the Church They would make you beleeue we plainely deny Melchizedech to haue ben a Priest That we teach God can doe no more then he hath done or will doe That water in Baptisme is not necessary That we abhorre the prayers of the Saints That we take away pennance fasting chastity keeping of vowes necessity of good workes obedience to Ecclesiasticall persons That it is not in our power to choose euill That the Angels cannot helpe vs. That no saint deceased hath afterward appeared to any in earth That fasting is not grounded vpon scripture no nor blessing and in briefe to passe by many other some of them are not ashamed to say we beleeue the soules of men are mortall and that there is no resurection and that Christ Iesus is not come in the flesh from all which errors heresies and blasphemies we are as farre as they are from truth honesty On the other side to win your affections to thē they beare you in hand that the Scriptures the Fathers the Counsels are all yours that Heauen yea Hell the gates of Cities the glasse-windowes in Churches res et reculae giue testimony to your Religion Whereas yet they dare not referre the iudgement of such differences asare betweene vs either to Scripture or Fathers or Counsels but onely to the present Church which is all one in effect as if they referred it vnto themselues or to your Pope they being in their opiniō the Church representatiue the Pope being the Church virtually who only hath power to iudge of controuersies Now doe you not smell there is some pad in the straw by their diuelish slaundring of vs and their cogging with you I passe by their restraining you from reading any of ourbookes especially the Bible of our translation though one of them of late assures you That our condemnation is so expresly set downe in our owne Bibles and is so cleere to all the world that nothing more needs hereto but onely that you know to reade and to haue your eyes in your heads at the opening of our Bible which might giue you occasion to suspect some falshood for if our condemnation bee so expressely set downe in them why may not you for your greater comfort reade them Onely I wish you would be pleased to consider seriously whether it be likely they had any honest meaning in making their Indices Expurgatorios forbidding you to reade books writtē by your owne frends till they had patched something into them which might make for you and torne out of them whatsoeuer they thought did make against you Mee thinks considering your many good morall parts you should not be so stupid as not to perceiue or so blinde as not to see there is some my stery of iniquity in it that you may neither reade what your friends or foes haue written Quidam senex c A certaine old man as one of your owne writers being asked by one who had a purpose to betake himselfe into a Monastery how he should carry himselfe after his admission answered him in good earnest Tuet Asinus vnum estote Carry thy selfe like an Asse refuse no burthen that is laid vpon thy backe Doe not groane at it For my part I feare they would make Asses of you all They would haue you to receiue hand ouer head whatsoeuer they reach you to beleeue without search whatsoeuer they tel you But as some of you are Noble Gentlemen others of you good fellows be not Asse fied by them Remember that you are men men of vnderstanding and able to iudge of reason when you heare it Beleeue none of your Priests vpon their bare words without proofe but especially take heede how you lightly beleeue your ordinary Masse-Priests for in truth the most of them are ignorant Sir Iohns not much vnlike the Bishop of Dunkelden who thanked God he neuer knew what the old and new Testament was The most of them are not much guiltie of learning Take hearts vnto you beloued Countreymen and reade our bookes and our Bibles my soule for yours you may doe it with good consciences and with much profit to your selues But if you cannot be perswaded thereunto yet
Sorbonist finding it written at the end of S. Pauls Epistles Missa est c. bragd hee had found the Masse in his Bible And that another reading in S. Iohn 1. 42. inuenimus Messiam x drew thence the same conclusion In Salaminca a Frier tooke vpon him to proue That the name of the Virgin Mary was spoken of Gen. 1. where wee read that God called the gatherings together of the waters Maria. I doubt not but he thought it an open and euident text for his turne In another place another Frier speaking of the words Ge. 14. 18. Rex Salem panem ac vinū pertulit fell into a long discourse of the nature of Salt the nature of Salt ◠beleeue he could hardly haue been perswaded that Salem there had not signified Salt Your D. Poynes who writes That it was foretold in the Old Testament That the Protestants were a malignant Church alledging for proofe thereof 2. Chr. 24. 19. where according to our vulgar Translation we read thus Mittebatque prophet as vt reuerterentur ad Dominum quos protestantes illi audire nolebant thought an hundred for one that the text was plaine And it may bee that Parish Priest of yeeres who being at controuersie with his Parishioners about pauing some plot of ground and alledging the wordes in Ier. 17. 18. to proue that he was not bound to paue any place saying Paueant illi ego non paueant was not in iest but in good earnest thinking the letter of the text made euidently for him Verily I am perswaded that that Painter whosoeuer he was who first painted Moses with a paire of hornes making him as the Iewes say like a deuil thought the text in Exod. 34. 30. where you read Faciem Moses esse cornutam Moses face was horned a plaine warrant for his picturing him so And I make no question but d they who make the world beleeue they haue the two keyes of S. Peter at Rome shewing them sometimes that they may bee adored if they were vrged to make proofe how S. Peter came by those keyes would alledge the words of the Euangelist To thee will I giue the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen as an open and euident text for that matter Pa. What adoe make you about had I wists I tell you once againe The Scriptures which I will alledge shall be plaine and the expositions such as you shall take no acceptions against For for the the truth of our expositions of holy Scripture wee haue the continuall tradition of the Church and the testimony and suffrage of all the holy Fathers and of thousands of Saints and learned men who euer expounded it as we doe and out of it gathered the selfe same doctrine and beliefe Prot. No meruaile if this be so that you sweare thē whole Colledge of your Cardinalls all your Archbishops Bishops Priests Abbats Priors Friers Graduats that they shall neuer take the Scriptures in other sense or interpret it to others in other sense then that which the Fathers gaue thereof with ioynt consent But I meruell as much that you blush not in saying as you doe as that they tremble not who administer and take such an oath for as they wittingly giue occasion of periury who administer such an oath and they periure themselues who take such an oath so you apparently speake ouer Yet seeing you are so confident let vs fall to our worke roundly And first let mee heare by you what the Scriptures are which are so plaine for the proofe of your opinions and when you haue done you shall heare by me what plaine texts may be alledged for proofe of our opinions Pa. Take then that for the first Host est corpus meum Hic est sanguis meus This is my body This is my bloud Prot. For what opinion of yours is this Scripture so plaine Pa. For the Reall presence in the Sacrament which you deny Prot. Wee beleeue as well as you That Christs flesh and bloud are truely present and truely receiued of the faithfull at the Lords Table We teach the people that Christieorpus datur accipitur manducatur in Caena The body of Christ is giuen indeed and verily and taken and eaten in the Lords Supper The question betweene vs and you is de modo about the manner of Christs presence and not de obiecto whether hee bee present or no. You say Christ is in the Sacrament really substantially corporally carnally naturally Yea you say He is there sensualiter sensibly vt manibus sacerdotum tractari velfrangi aut fidelium dentibus atteri possit so that the Priests may handle him and breake him with their hands and the faithfull may teare him with their teeth Now this manner of presence we deny and the letter of the wordes which wee alledge proues not that For Christ said This is my body and not This is my body in such a manner Caietan your Cardinall confesseth Non apparere ex Èuangelio coactivum aliquid quo possimus conuincere-haereticos ad intelligendum verba haec Hoc est corpus meum propriè sed tenendum hoc esse solùm ex authoritate Ecclesiae quae ita verba consecrationis declarat There is nothing in the Gospel whereby an Hereticke may bee inforced to expound the words This is my body properly but men are to beleeue so because the Church teacheth so And Fisher Bishop of Rochester confesseth Neque vllum hîc viz. in Matth. verbum positum est quo probetur in nostra Missa veram fieri carnis sanguinis Christi praesentiam There is not a word in S. Matthews Gospel whereby it can be proued that Christ is really present in your Sacrament Your second instance had need be plainer Pa. My second instance is plaine enough for we haue expresly The bread which I will giue is my flesh Ioh. 6. 51. Prot. For what opinion of yours are these words so plaine Pa. For the former point euen for the Reall presence in the Sacrament And yet you expound them as if no more were meant by them then that wee should haue giuen vs the signe of his flesh onely Prot. We doe not expound them so We say That the wordes are meant of Christ himselfe the word that was made flesh Ioh. 1. 14. Wee expound them not of the signe of his flesh We teach That the true bread the bread of God which came downe from heauen and giueth life vnto the world is Christ euen the flesh the very flesh of Christ that is Christ incarnate and that hee gaue vs this bread to eate not in the Sacrament but vpon the Crosse And this exposition of ours is approued for good by Gabriel Biel Lect. 84. super Canon Missae By Nic. Cusanus Epist 7. ad Bohemos By Caietan in 3. part Tho. 9. 80. Art vlt. By Ruard Tapperus in explicat Artic. 15. Louan To. 2. By Hessels lib.
neuer sinned In the Scriptures Saint Paul speaking of Concupiscence in expresse termes calls it sinne Rom. 6. 12. as you your selues confesse Yet yee deny Concupiscence is sin and tell vs soberly that Apostolus Concupiscentiam peccatum votaâ— at non liceâ— nobis it a loqâ—â— Though the Apostle calls it sinne yet we may not call it so In the Scriptures we read expresly That whatsoeuer is not of faith is sin Rom. 14. 23. Yet yee teach That many actions done by Infidels are not finne In the Scriptures it is expresly written That if any Brother haue a wife that beleeueth not if she be content to dwell with him hee should not forsake her and if any woman haue an vnbeleeuing husband who is content to dwell with her shee should not forsake him 1 Cor 7. 12 13. Yet yee teach That a beleeuing brother may put away his vnbeleeuing wife though she be content to dwell with him and a beleeuing woman may put away her vnbeleeuing husband though he be content to dwell with her Yea ye teach That the vnbeleeuing partie may not continue with the vnbeleeuing They must part companie Pa. Indeed I read in Binnius that Licet in principie nascentis Ecclesiâ— erat licitum post susceptam sidem virum fidelem ab vxore infideli non discedere vel contra sed eandem in domo commerciâ— manere vt constat ex Paulo 1 Cor. 7. propter spem conuersionis alterius tamen ab hinc 800. annis Ecclesia contrarium prâ—cepit siâ—que lege consuetudine vsu introductum est vt fidelis non maneat cum inâ—iâ—eli Though in the Prime age of the Church it was lawfull for the beleeuer to continue in the same house and fellowship with the vnbeleeuer not to make a separation in hope the beleeuing partie might conuert the vnbeleeuing yet the Church about eight hundred yeares agoe gaue commandement to the contrary So that now partly by vertue of a law partly by custome it is generally receiued That the beleeuing partie may not continue with the vnbeleeuing And to confesse the whole truth I read that Father Gaspar in India hauing baptized an honourable Indian Ladie when her husband made great meanes to haue her againe being desired to deliuer his opinion in a Councell held about that matter answered roundly That they ought not to giue holy things to dogs nor the persons of such as praise God vnto beasts Wherevpon it was concluded Her husband should not haue her againe Shee should bee married to another Pro. In the Scripture it is expresly written Defraud not one another except it bee with consent for a time that you may giue your selues to Fasting and Praier 1 Cor. 7. 5. Yet ye teach A married man may goe in pilgrimage euen to Ierusalem without his wiues consent Pa. I grant Innocentius the third decreed so vpon a speciall occasion but I know not whether that Decree stand in force now But proceed Pro. In the Scripture it is expresly written That he who cannot abstaine should marrie because it is better to marrie then to burne 1 Cor. 7. 9. Yet yee teach That some such as your Priests and Monkes may not marrie though they burne In the Scripture it is expresly written That it is a shame for a woman to bee shauen 1 Cor. 11. 6. Yet your Nunnes are shorne In the Scripture it is expresly written That Christians should praise God in their assenblies by singing Coloss 3. 16. Yet ye will not allow them to sing in their assemblies And this is confessed by your Binnius for Vt â—ideles in suis conuentibus Psalmis hymnis alternatim corde simul ore decan at is Deum landent a Paulo ad Coloss cap. 3. ad Eph. cap. 5. praeceptum esse fatâ—mur Sed dum olim vnà cum clericis etiam popolus promiscuè cantareâ— imper itiâ Canentium aliquando accidebat vt ij quorum vox inculta erat aut absona Harmonicum illum Ecclesiasticâ— dignitati congruentem concentum planè corrumperent Ad boâ— ergo incommodum a cantu religioso tollendum Ecclesiast institut hisce optimè prouisum est ne praeter certâ—s ad hoc opus ascrâ—ptes al ij in Ecclesia psallerent Wee confesse saith he Saint Paul commanded Christians to sing in their assemblies but because it fell out that some who had no skill in singing sung with other who had skill they marred the Musicke it was very well prouided by Ecclesiasticall Institutions That onely certaine Singing men and Quoristers should sing in Church assemblies In the Scripture wee read expresly That praiers should be conceiued in knowne languages 1. Cor. 14. Yet ye like not of that A Parisian Doctor tells vs Et si Apostolus linguâ intellect â preces velit celebrari tamen sanctam Ecclesiam iustissimis de causis contra statuisse That though the Apostle thought good praier should bee in knowne languages yet your Church vpon good reason hath decreed the contrarie In the Scripture wee read expresly That the vnlearned should say Amen at the end of praiers 1 Cor. 14. 16. which they did euen Ab initio nascentis Ecclesiae from the Apostles time as Dorantes conconfesseth Yet by your Religion The Clerke of the Parish only is to say Amen at the end of praiers In the Scripture it is expresly written That he is cursed who abideth not in all things which are written in the Law to doe them Gal. 3. 10. Yet yee teaching That some sinnes are pardonable of their owne nature must needs bee thought to teach by necessarie consequence That euerie such man is not cursed In the Scripture it is expresly written Euery man shall beare his owne burthen Galat. 6. 5. Yet yee teach That one man may beare anothers burthen for if one be enioined to fast in part of Penance another may fast for him In the Scripture it is expresly written That the Mediator betweene God and man is one and he is Christ Iesus 1 Tim. 2. 5. Yet yee generally teach That there are many mediators betweene God and man moe then Christ Iesus Pa. That is our generall doctrine I grant Yet there are among vs who teach Sanctos Angelos homines non dicendos esse mediatores Dei hominum sed potius mediatores ad mediatorem The holy Men and Angells are not to bee reputed mediators betweene God and man but rather mediators betweene the Mediator Yea some of vs simply denie that Saints be Mediators Vniuer salis Ecclesia Sanâ—tos colit sed non vt mediatores The Catholike Church worshippeth Saints but not as Mediators â—aith Viruesius Prot. That doctrine is as false as the other but it sufficeth mee that your ordinarie doctrine is proued to be contrarie to expresse Scripture I will passe to another instance By expresse Scripture married men may be made Bishops 1 Tim. 3. 2. Yet yee teach Married men may not be made
Because as they say in no one point that they can heare of will any of vs be tried by the iudgement and consent of Antiquitie I know the man what became of him he was hangd at Tiburne for Treason who first broached that slander on Tobith Mathew the most reuerend Archbishop of Yorke at this day who being almost eightie yeeres old preacheth more Sermons in a yeere then you can proue haue bin preached by all your Popes since Gregory the great his daies And I know that that man vaunted Ad Patres si quando licebit accedere confectum est praelium tà m sunt nostri quà m Gregorius 13. filiorum Ecclesiae Pater amantissimus If Controuersies of Religion came once to the decision of the Fathers all would goe on your side for the Fathers were as flat for you as Gregory the thirteenth your beloued Pope Yea and I know your Lay Catholikes in their Petition to his Maiestie suggested That for one place of a Father euill vnderstood sometimes falsified sometimes mutilated and sometimes wholly corrupted brought by vs they could produce a thousand not by patches and mammocks as we do but whole Pages whole Chapters whole Bookes and the vniforme consent of all the ancient Fathers and Catholike Church Yet I am of Scultetus mind That D. Whitakers spake nothing but the truth when in his answere to Campian hee auouched Patres in maximis iudic ijs toti sunt nostri in leuioribus varij in minutissimis vestri The Fathers in mayne Controsies are wholly ours in the lesser some ours some yours in the least yours not ours Yea I am of D. Raynolds mind who protesteth that in his opinion Not one of all the Fathers was a Papist especially considering the very essence of a Papist consisteth in opinion of the Popes Supremacie and the Popes Supremacie is not allowed by any of the Fathers Pa. r Why but you will not deny I am sure That some of your predecessors as for example Luther hath spoken scornfully of the Fathers Are not these his words Nihil curo c. I care not if a thousand Austins a thousand Cyprians a thousand Churches thinke otherwise then I doe Prot. Luther perswading himselfe that the Word of God made for him in a controuersie which hee handled by way of supposall that Austin and Cyprian c. thought otherwise professeth that hauing the Word with him he cared not who they were not how many they were who were against him And do you thinke that therein he spake scornfully of the Fathers What doe you thinke then of him who perswading himselfe that some of your Popes made for him protesteth he would rest more thereon then vpon thousand Austins thousand Ieroms thousand Gregories Ego vt ingenuè â—atcor plus vnt summo pontificicrederem in his qui fidci mysteria tangunt quaÌ„ mille Augustinis Hieronymis Gregorijs saith your Cornelius Mussus in his Commentary vpon the Epistle to the Romanes If it were scornefullnesse in Luther to preferre the Word of God before thousand Austins doth it not much more argue scornfulnesse in Musse to prefer an vsurping most vicious and vnlettered Pope before thousand Austins He was a great Clerke in his time who deliuered this as sound doctrine Simplici potius Rustice infanti Aniculâ— magis quà m Pontifici maximo mille Episcopis credendum est si isti contra Euangelium illi pro Euangelie faciant We ought rather beleeue a plaine country fellow or a child or an old wife then the Pope and a thousand Bishops if the Pope and Bishops speake against the Gospel and the others agreeably to the Gospel To prefer the Word of God before Bishops is not to scorne Bishops Pa. Well shall we then fall to the Fathers and see what they say Prot. Nay stay a little And tell me first what hope there is that either you should perswade me or I perswade you by Fathers seeing the one of vs cannot perswade the other to be of his opinion by the Scripture It is written That they who heare not Moses and the Prophets will not bee perswaded though one rise from the dead againe Which makes me feare that seeing Moses and the Prophets alledged by me cannot perswade you nor the Texts which you alledge out of the same cannot perswade me we shall lose both our labours in examining what the Fathers haue said about the differences betweene vs For if men who heare not Moses and the Prophets will not be perswaded by the dead miraculously raised I cannot thinke they will euer be perswaded by the Fathers Pa. Say you so Prot. Yea truly and I am the more afraid we shall lose our labours in this kind because there is as great question betweene vs about the Fathers as about the Scriptures what the meaning of the Fathers is as vvhat the meaning of the Scriptures is On vvhose side St. Austin and St. Ambrose stands as on whose side St. Paul and St. Peter stands The Fathers Writings are subiect to mistakings as vvell as the Scriptures Arbitror nonnulles in quibusdamlocis librâ—rum meorum opinaturos me sensisse quod non sensi aut non sensisse quod sensi I suppose saith St. Austin that many by reason of some passages in my Bookes will conceiue that my meaning is otherwise then it was or that it vvas not such as it was And it fell out accordingly For as Baronius witnesseth after St. Austins death there arose vp diuers Qui ex eius scriptis male perceptis complures inuexerunt errores quos S. Aug. nomine authoritate defendere conabantur Who mistaking his meaning broached many errors in his name Now I doubt not but you thinke other Fathers Writings are as subiect to mistakings as St. Austins Pa. That I doe Yet proue this point I pray a little more fully Prot. I will and that by examples of ancienter and later times In ancient times one Father mistooke the meaning of another At this time euen one of you conceiues differently of the meaning of the Fathers from others of you some saying This is the meaning others saying not so but this is the meaning Pa. What ancient Father mistooke his fellowes meaning Prot. St. Austin mistooke St. Cyprians for St. Austin thought St. Cyprian had beene of opinion that Hereticks were within the Church which as your men say St. Cyprian did not Pa. Indeed I thinke St. Austin mistooke St. Cyprian foulely for I read in Bellarmine that Cypriani verba nihil tale sonant S. Cyprians words founded nothing that way And in Canus Ego vt quemadmodum sentio loquar non intelligo quid causâ— Augustimo fuerit vt verba Cypriani in eum sensuÌ„ acceperit qui mihi sanè tam apparet à Cypriani mente alienus quam Coelum a terrae natura altenum est sed aliquando bonus dormitat Homerus If I may speake my mind freely I wonder why