Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	religion_n	true_a	7,548	5	5.1593	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A56668	A further continuation and defence, or, A third part of the friendly debate by the same author.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist Part 3.	Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707.	1670 (1670)	Wing P805; ESTC R2050	207,217	458

that may have a fair interpretation though I must tell you he carps and wrangles with me without any cause in the world Of which vice I must give you some instances according to my promise in the beginning and because it is very late they shall be but two which ly also very near together Mention being made in the Friendly Debate of three sorts of N. C. the last of which as you may see p. 206. c. are said to be between both he quarrels because they were not placed in the middle being a middle sort of men between the two Extreams and by the middle we must come at the Extreames y See his Book pag. 218. And yet this is the very man who in another case gives advice quite contrary to this and reasons too why the middle should come last The Building of the City I mean he would have begin at both ends where it stai'd for every body knows mark his words z Rebuild of London Discourse 19. p. 128. that it is better to proceed from extreams to the middle for virtue is in the middle to build first at both ends or extreams of the City and so to proceed to the middle from the two poles as it were to the Center N. C. I did not think men could cross themselves on this fashion C. Nothing more easy when they are resolved to be cross to others in every thing N. C. It seemes there is one rule for building of Cities and another for building of Books if you will let me so speak C. As you please But he crosses this rule he hath made for me once more in that Book For when he had told us of two Proverbs nothing venture nothing have and venture all and lose all both which sometimes proves true he then brings us to the middle way which he saith is best neither venture all nor venture nothing but venture something though not all a Discourse 40. p. 245. N. C. I begin to feare he hath an itch of finding fault where there is none for how should a man know what the middle between two extreames is till he first know them C. It 's well that I can extort that little confession from you Look a little further and tell me what you think of that passage p. 220. where upon occasion of my desiring those Ministers who are not against the Common-Prayer that they would instruct the People in the Truth and bring them to a modest and peaceable temper in order to a compliance with us he tells me in a jeering way Sir they are your journey-men and you may command them what you please or rather your poor Apprentices c. as if I desired them to do us service which God knows was not in my thoughts and not to serve the Truth and Peace of the Church of Christ This is mere perversness of spirit and argues he did not read or write with a good mind but studies more to keep up a party than to promote true Christian Religion N. C. However he tells you they can do nothing for the making up the breach Some have tried to satisfy the People about joyning in a Form of Prayer c. and it will not do p. 223. C. He speaks diffidently and saith Some it may be have tried But let us take it for a certainty and since you mention it let me say a few things briefly to it First he acknowledges then the gross ignorance and stupidity of your People which I told you of the last time who will sooner joyn with Quakers as he saith more than once b p. 15. and 227. than with us of the Church of England For that is his argument against perswading them to be reconciled to us that the next news we may hear of them shall be that they have joyned themselves to the Anabaptists or to the Quakers c. But Secondly it would be duly considered and sadly laid to heart how they came by these prejudices and antipathies against so sober a way of worshipping God as is among us Let those mis-zealous men saith Bp. Hall c Answer to the Vindication of Smectym Paragr 13 who have infused these distastes into well meaning Soules See how they will answer it at the great day to the Judg of quick and dead Surely if the case were mine I should fear it would fall heavy upon my Soul Thirdly let them all come back themselves to our Congregations though they cannot bring the people with them They will thereby do what in them lies to take away the scandal they have given and they will also leave those people who when the humour takes them may leave them and run to the wild sects where still they may enjoy more Liberty It was a good Memento of Mr. Greenhams to Brown when he first separated from our Church that he hoped he might be better informed and return again to us but he bid him bethink himself what would become of those poor Souls whom he had seduced and were carried away who might run further and further from us but never be reclaimed His words proved true for Brown returned and died a Member of the Church of England but his Sect remains to the great disturbance of it to this day It had been well if all your Ministers of this generation had thought of this and so not begun to lead away so many Souls into a mischievous Schism who may never be restored but as it is if they cannot reduce them let them come back themselves and not be worse than the Father of the Separation And Fourthly I have hope hereby that they may do some good whatsoever this man saith upon the better part of your People if they set themselves to it unanimously and with all their heart For what cannot be done by one man alone whose unsuccessful labours be untruly talks of might be done to great purpose if all were of the same pious mind and joyned in the same good work by Doctrine and Example declaring that neither they nor their Predecessors ever held there were any such foul corruptions in our Worship or Government as should be a just ground for Separation And Lastly if there be no hope at all of this what makes this Gentleman talk of an Accommodation and Union between C. and N C. and that a purpose of it seemed to be as it were publishing very lately d Preface p. 9. Sure he knows not the meaning of those words or else contradicts himself which it is as easie for him to do as it is to write N. C. That word Schism which you mentioned just now is harder to understand than Union For he seems to plead the same reason for our Separation from you which is alledged for your Separation from Rome C. That 's one of his miserable shifts and excuses which he makes for things that are sinful Is he so little a Divine as to think we separated from the Church of Rome

his Associates 1648. pag. 56. by some of the Professors of Rhetorick in Newgate or L●dgate whose practice of that kind of Oratory had made him as great a stranger to Truth as to Blushing Such is the Rhetorick of Philagathus who tells us of starving and famishing rags and tatters killing all the day long and crucifying tears of blood and heart bleeding and repeats these as often m Preface p. 25. Book p. 21 46 80 149 22● 229 231 233 237 247 283 c. as they did their O O O boldly affirming or rather presuming in General terms without any particular proofs For where are those starvlings and crucified persons Where are the Martyr'd or tatter'd creatures which will wring from us tears of blood Why are they not brought forth to the view of some pitiful eye as was then said Spend no longer your breath but let all this be seen for the view gives deeper impression than mere hearsays And when they are produced into open sight we shall go near to set as many honest and worthy Conformists before you who by reason of their great charge or small maintenance are in as mean a condition and live as hardly as they The truth is this language of Philagathus as that Declaration said looks more like the ebullition of Wine than the cry of want and therefore sometime we find him in another Tune telling us that the people generally retain the same good thoughts of them that they did heretofore n P. 149. If so Why should they want now more than in time past since good thoughts will keep up good affections and those will open the heart and that the purse N. C. Ask me no Questions for I can say nothing positively in this matter C. Nor he neither For all is built upon Suppositions as I told you And you may further observe that his so many hundreds of families of pious and learned Ministers that have hardly me●● c p. 234. by that time he is got to p. 247. are dwindled into the almost starved families of scores of N. C. Ministers pious and able c. When he hath better considered of it he may come down to Dossens which is a less fall by much than from Many Hundreds to Scores he could not tell how many or how few Nay his Dossens at last may shrink into some few families who to use his own word it is possible may be as tattered and ragged as his Writings The truth is his Penruns on so carelessly that he drops any thing into his Paper that comes in his way be it true or be it false be it certain or only doubtful For when I desired that your Ministers would not suffer their people to fansie themselves under persecution o P. 237. of Fr. Deb. He presently answers with much pertness would it were in our power to make them know themselves to suffer nothing but if men be turned out of all c. p P. 283. of his Answ it is a hard matter to make them insensible He had such a quick sense of himself as he tells you presently that he could not think of any thing else But because he had lost his Living imagined the people who come not to Church are turned out of all which was never before now heard of N. C. It is a mistake C. And so is his whole Discourse about Persecution which I said could not be pretended for a cause of their Separation nor hath he said a word to shew it is so grievous and intolerable as to be alledged for that purpose He talks of their suffering hard things q P. 249. but what is that to the business especially if you consider that the worst things that are inflicted on them are the effect of their Separation and contempt of Laws not the cause upon which they separated as he would have the world believe For till they left our Churches and set up Congregations of their own they were only deprived of their places not imprisoned or otherwise punished Now I pray consider seriously Did ever any man whom you account sober call it Persecution which was the thing I spoke of to suffer Deprivation for not conforming to Publick Order No it is unjustly called hard usage and to complain of this as this Whifler doth though the condition of some men become very sad thereby is to complain of all Churches even of your own when you had any power It hath always been thought necessary in all places that there should be some Order kept in the Church of Christ For which purpose they have found it as necessary that there should be some Rules and Laws which signifie nothing without Penalties to inforce them and they as little if they be not inflicted when men transgress So that in conclusion it is as necessary to punish those that will not submit to the Laws as it is to have Publick Order The French Churches r Eccles Discipline of the Reformed Churches in France translated into English 1642. Chap. 5. Art 31. are so sensible of this that they have provided in Discipline That if one or more of the people shall move or stir up strife or contention to disjoyn and break the Union of the Church concerning some Point of their Doctrine or Discipline or about the method manner or style of the Catechism of the Administration of the Sacraments or Publick Prayers and the blessing of Matrimony and will not promise not to spread ought of their opinion in any manner or way whatsoever till the Synod hath heard them they shall be censured as rebellious persons And in case they will not renounce their Errors after all means tryed to convince them then they are to be cut off from the Church But in case a Pastor or Elder s Ib. Art 32. Concerning the Consistory trouble the Peace and break the Union of the Church or cause any strife or contention about some point of Doctrine or Discipline which they have subscribed unto or about Administration of the Sacraments or the form of Catechism or Publick Prayers and Benediction of Marriage and will not yield to what the Classical Assembly shall determine he shall presently be suspended from his charge and imployment to be proceeded against at the next Provincial or National Synod And if any Minister teach false Doctrine and will not forbear after Admonition he is to be deposed as also those who are not obedient to the Admonitions of the Consistory or are convicted of Heresie Schism or Rebellion against the Ecclesiastical Order t Ib. Ch. 1. Coacerning Ministers and Pastors Art 45. As for those who thrust themselves into the Ministry in Countries and Places where the Preaching of the Gospel is already pure and lawfully established and will not desist when they are warned of it they are to be cut off quite and proceeded against as the Synods judg fit together with those that follow and adhere to them if after the