A SECOND LETTER CONCERNING TOLERATION LICENSED June 24. 1690. LONDON Printed for Awnsham and John Churchill at the Black Swan in Ave-Mary-Lane near Pater-Noster-Row M DC XC TO THE AUTHOR OF THE Argument of the Letter concerning Toleraration briefly considered and answered SIR YOU will pardon me if I take the same Liberty with you that you have done with the Author of the Letter concerning Toleration to consider your Arguments and endeavour to shew you the Mistakes of them For since you have so plainly yeilded up the Question to him and do own that the Severities he would disswà de Christians from are utterly unapt and improper to bring Men to imbrace that Truth which must save them I am not without some hopes to prevail with you to do that your self which you say is the only justifiable Aim of Men differing about Religion even in the use of the severest Methods viz. Carefully and impartially to weigh the whole matter and thereby to remove that Prejudice which makes you yet favour some Remains of Persecution Promising my self that so ingenious a Person will either be convinced by the Truth which appears so very clear and evident to me or else confess that were either you or I in Authority we should very unreasonably and very unjustly use any Force upon the other which differ'd from him upon any pretence of want of Examination And if Force be not to be used in your case or mine because unreasonable or unjust you will I hope think fit that it should be forborn in all others where it will be equally unjust and unreasonable as I doubt not but to make it appear it will unavoidably be where ever you will go about to punish Men for want of Consideration For the true way to try such Speculations as these is to see how they will prove when they are reduc'd into Practice The first thing you seem startled at in the Author's Letter is the largeness of the Toleration he proposes And you think it strange that he would not have so much as a Pagan Mahumetan or Jew excluded from the Civil Rights of the Commonwealth because of his Religion We pray every day for their Conversion and I think it our Duty so to do But it will I fear hardly be believed that we pray in earnest if we exclude them from the other ordinary and probable means of Conversion either by driving them from or persecuting them when they are amongst us Force you allow is improper to convert Men to any Religion Toleration is but the removing that Force So that why those should not be tolerated as well as others if you wish their Conversion I do not see But you say it seems hard to conceive how the Author of that Letter should think to do any Service to Religion in general or to the Christian Religion by recommending and perswading such a Toleration For how much soever it may tend to the Advancement of Trade and Commerce which some seem to place above all other Considerations I see no reason from any Experiment that has been made to expect that true Religion would be a gainer by it that it would be either the better preserved the more widely propagated or rendred any whit the more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors by it Before I come to your Doubt it self Whether true Religion would be a gainer by such a Toleration give me leave to take notice that if by other Considerations you mean any thing but Religion your Parenthesis is wholly besides the matter and that if you do not know that the Author of the Letter places the Advancement of Trade above Religion your Insinuation is very uncharitable But I go on You see no reason you say from any Experiment that has been made to expect that true Religion would be a gainer by it True Religion and Christian Religion are I suppose to you and me the same thing But of this you have an Experiment in its first appearance in the World and several hundreds of Years after It was then better preserv'd more widely propagated in proportion and render'd more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors than ever since tho then Jews and Pagans were tolerated and more than tolerated by the Governments of those places where it grew up I hope you do not imagine the Christian Religion has lost aâ—… of its first Beauty Force or Reasonableness by having been â—…most 2000 Years in the World that you should fear it should be less able now to shift for it self without the help of Force I doubt not but you look upon it still to be the Poâ—…er and Wisdom of God for our Salvation and therefore cannot suspect it less capable to prevail now by its own Truth and Light than it did in the first Ages of the Church when poor contemptible Men without Authority or the countenance of Authority had alone the care of it This as I take it has been made use of by Christians generally and by some of our Church in particular as an Argument for the Truth of the Christian Religion that it grew and spread and prevailed without any Aid from Force or the Assistance of the Powers in being And if it be a mark of the true Religion that it will prevail by its own Light and Strength but that false Religions will not but have need of Force and foreign Helps to support them nothing certainly can be more for the advantage of true Religion than to take away Compulsion every where And therefore it is no more hard to conceive how the Author of the Letter should think to do Service to Religion in general or to the Christian Religion than it is hard to conceive that he should think there is a true Religion and that the Christian Religion is it which its Professors have always own'd not to need Force and have urged that as a good Argument to prove the truth of it The Inventions of Men in Religion need the Force and Helps of Men to support them A Religion that is of God wants not the Assistance of Human Authority to make it prevail I guess when this dropp'd from you you had narrow'd your Thoughts to your own Age and Country But if you will enlarge them a little beyond the Consines of England I do not doubt but you will easily imagine that if in Italy Spain Portugal c. the Inquisition and in France their Dragooning and in other parts those Severities that are used to keep or force Men to the National Religion were taken away and instead thereof the Toleration propos'd by the Author were set up the true Religion would be a gainer by it The Author of the Letter says Truth will do well enough if she were once left to shift for her self She seldom hath received and he fears never will receive much Assistance from the Power of great Men to whom she is but rarely known and more rarely welcome Errors indeed prevail by the
The Evidence of the Argument has convinced you that Men ought not to be persecuted for their Religion That the Severities in use amongst Christians cannot be defended That the Magistrate has not Authority to compel any one to his Religion This you are forced to yield But you would fain retain some Power in the Magistrate's Hands to punish Dissenters upon a new Pretence viz. not for having imbraced the Doctrine and Worship they believe to be True and Right but for not having well consider'd their own and the Magistrate's Religion To shew you that I do not speak wholly without-Book give me leave to mind you of one Passage of yours The words are Penalties to put them upon a sorious and impartial examination of the Controversy between the Magistrates and them Though these words be not intended to tell us who you would have punished yet it may be plainly inferr'd from them And they more clearly point out whom you aim at than all the foregoing places where you seem to and should describe them For they are such as between whom and the Magistrate there is a Controversy That is in short who differ from the Magistrate in Religion And now indeed you have given us a Note by which these you would have punished may be known We have with much ado found at last whom it is we may presume you would have punished Which in other Cases is usually not very difficult because there the Faults to be mended easily design the Persons to be corrected But yours is a new Method and unlike all that ever went before it In the next place Let us see for what you would have them punished You tell us and it will easily be granted you that not to examine and weigh impartially and without Prejudice or Passion all which for shortness-sake we will express by this one word Consider the Religion one embraces or refuses is a Fault very common and very prejudicial to true Religion and the Salvation of Mens Souls But Penalties and Punishments are very necessary say you to remedy this Evil. Let us see now how you apply this Remedy Therefore say you let all Dissenters be punished Why Have no Dissenters considered of Religion Or have all Conformists considered That you your self will not say Your Project therefore is just as reasonable as if a Lethargy growing Epidemical in England you should propose to have a Law made to blister and scarify and shave the Heads of all who wear Gowns Though it be certain that neither all who wear Gowns are Lethargick nor all who are Lethargick wear Gowns Dii te Damasippe Deaeque Verum ob consilium donent tonsore For there could not be certainly a more Learned Advice than that one Man should be pull'd by the Ears because another is asleep This when you have consider'd of it again for I find according to your Principle all Men have now and then need to be jog'd you will I guess be convinced is not like a fair Physician to apply a Remedy to a Disease but like an engag'd Enemy to vent one's Spleen upon a Party Common Sense as well as Common Justice requires that the Remedies of Laws and Penalties should be directed against the Evil that is to be removed where-ever it be found And if the Punishment you think so necessary be as you pretend to cure the Mischief you complain of you must let it pursue and fall on the Guilty and those only in what company soever they are And not as you here propose and is the highest Injustice punish the Innocent considering Dissenteâ—… with the Guilty and on the other side let the inconsiderate guilty Conformist scape with the Innocent For one may rationally presume that the National Church has some nay more in proportion of those who little consider or concern themselves about Religion than any Congregation of Dissenters For Conscience or the Care of their Souls being once laid aside Interest of course leads Men into that Society where the Protection and Countenance of the Government and hopes of Preferment bid fairest to all their remaining Desires So that if careless negligent inconsiderate Men in Matters of Religion who without being forced would not consider are to be roused into a care of their Souls and a search after Truth by Punishments The National Religion in all Countries will certainly have a right to the greatest share of those Punishments at least not to be wholly exempt from them This is that which the Author of the Letter as I remember complains of and that justly viz. That the pretended Care of Mens Souls always expresses it self in those who would have Force any way made use of to that end in very unequâ—…l Methods some Persons being to be treated with Severity whilst others guilty of the same Faults are not to be so much as touched Though you are got pretty wâ—…ll out of the deep Mud and renounce Punishments directly for Religion yet you stick still in this part of the Mire whilst you would have Dissenters punished to make them consider but would not have any thing done to Conformists tho never so negligent in this point of considering The Author's Letter pleas'd me because it is equal to all Mankind is direct and will I think hold every where which I take to be a good Mark of Truth For I shall always suspect that neither to comport with the Truth of Religion or the Design of the Gospel which is suited to only some one Country or Party What is True and Good in England will be True and Good at Rome too in China or Geneva But whether your great and only Method for the propagating of Truth by bringing the Inconsiderate by Punishments to consider would according to your way of applying your Punishments only to Dissenters from the National Religion be of use in those Countries or any where but where you suppose the Magistrate to be in the Right judg you Pray Sir consider a little whether Prejudice has not some share in your way of Arguing For this is your Position Men are generally negligent in examining the Grounds of their Religion This I grant But could there be a more wild and incoherent Consequence drawn from it than this Therefore Dissenters must be punished But that being laid aside let us now see to what end they must be punished Sometimes it is To bring them to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them Of what That it is not easy to set Grantham Steeple upon Paul's Church What-ever it be you would have them convinced of you are not willing to tell us And so it may be any thing Sometimes it is To incline them to lend an Ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their Way and offer to shew them the Right Which is to lend an Ear to all who differ from them in Religion as well crafty Seducers as others Whether this be for the procuring
Assistance of Foreign and borrowed Succours Truth makes way into our Vnderstanding by her own Light and is but the weaker for any borrowed Force that Violence can add to her These words of his how hard soever they may seem to you may help you to conceive how he should think to do Service to True Religion by recommending and perswading such a Toleration as he proposed And now pray tell me your self whether you do not think True Religion would be a gainer by it if such a Toleration establish'd there would permit the Doctrine of the Church of England to be freely preached and its Worship set up in any Popish Mahumetan or Pagan Country If you do not you have a very ill Opinion of the Religion of the Church of England and must own that it can only be propagated and supported by Force If you think it would gain in those Countries by such a Toleration you are then of the Author's Mind and do not find it so hard to conceive how the recommending such a Toleration might do Service to that which you think True Religion But if you allow such a Toleration useful to Truth in other Countries you must find something very peculiar in the Air that must make it less useful to Truth in England And 't will savour of much partiality and be too absurd I fear for you to own that Toleration will be advantagious to True Religion all the World over except only in this Island Though I much suspect this as absurd as it is lies at the bottom And you build all you say upon this lurking Supposition that the National Religion now in England back'd by the Publick Authority of the Law is the only True Religion and therefore no other is to be tolerated Which being a Supposition equally unavoidable and equally just in other Countries unless we can imagine that every where but in England Men believe what at the same time they think to be a Lie will in other Places exclude Toleration and thereby hinder Truth from the means of propagating it self What the Fruits of Toleration are which in the next words you complain do remain still among us and which you say give no Encouragement to hope for any Advantages from it what Fruits I say these are or whether they are owing to the want or wideness of Toleration among us we shall then be able to judg when you tell us what they are In the mean time I will boldly say that if the Magistrates will severely and impartially set themselves against Vice in whomsoever it is found and leave Men to their own Consciences in their Articles of Faith and Ways of Worship True Religion will be spread wider and be more fruitful in the Lives of its Professors than ever hitherto it has been by the imposition of Creeds and Ceremonies You tell us that no Man can fail of sinding the Way of Salvation who seeks it as he ought I wonder you had not taken notice in the places you quote for this how we are directed there to the right way of seeking The words John vii 17. are If any Man will do his Will he shall know of the Doctrine whether it be of God And Psalm XXV 9 12 14. which are also quoted by you tell us The Meek will he guide in Judgment and the Meek will he teach his Way What Man is he that feareth the Lord him shall he teach in the Way that he shall chuse The Secret of the Lord is with them that fear him and he will shew them his Covenant So that these places if they prove what you cite them for that no Man can fail of finding the Way of Salvation who seeks it as he ought they do also prove that a good Life is the only way to seek as we ought and that therefore the Ma istrates if they would put Men upon seeking the way of Salvation as they ought should by their Laws and Penalties force them to a good Life A good Conversation being the readiest and surest way to a right Understanding Punishments and Severities thus apply'd we are sure are both practicable just and useful How Punishments will prove in the way you contend for we shall see when we come to consider it Having given us these broad Marks of your Good-will to Toleration you tell us 'T is not your Design to argue against it but only to enquire what our Author offers for the proof of his Assertion And then you give us this Scheme of his Argument 1. There is but one Way of Salvation or but one True Religion 2. No Man can be saved by this Religion who does not believe it to be the True Religion 3. This Belief is to be wrought in Men by Reason and Argument not by outward Force and Compulsion 4. Therefore all such Force is utterly of no use for the promoting True Religion and the Salvation of Souls 5. And therefore no Body can have any Right to use any Force or Compulsion for the bringing Men to the True Religion And you tell us the whole strength of what that Letter urged for the Purpose of it lies in this Argument Which I think you have no more reason to say than if you should tell us that only one Beam of a House had any strength in it when there are several others that would support the Building were that gone The purpose of the Letter is plainly to desend Toleration exempt from all Force especially Civil Force or the Force of the Magistrate Now if it be a true Consequence that Men must be tolerated if Magistrates have no Commission or Authority to punish them for Matters of Religion then the only strength of that Letter lies not in the unfitness of Force to convince Mens Vnderstanding Vid. Let. p. 7. Again If it be true that Magistrates being as liable to Error as the rest of Mankind their using of Force in Matters of Religion would not at all advance the Salvation of Mankind allowing that even Force could work upon them and Magistrates had Authority to use it in Religion then the Argument you mention is not the only one in that Letter of strength to prove the Necessity of Toleration V. Let. P. 8. For the Argument of the unsitness of Force to convince Mens Minds being quite taken away either of the other would be a strong proof for Toleration But let us consider the Argument as you have put it The two first Propositions you say you agree to As to the Third you grant that Force is very improper to be used to induce the Mind to assent to any Truth But yet you deny that Force is utterly useless for the promoting True Religion and the Salvation of Mens Souls which you call the Author's 4th Proposition But indeed that is not the Author's 4th Proposition or any Proposition of his to be sound in the Pages you quote or any where else in the whole Letter either in those terms or
yet by other parts of your Treatise 't is plain you mean the Magistrate And secondly you omit to say upon whom it must be used who it is must be punished And those if you say any thing to your purpose must be Dissenters from the National Religion those who come not into Church-Communion with the Magistrate And then your Proposition in fair plain terms will stand thus If the Magistrate punish Dissenters only to bring them to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper to convince them who can deny but that indirectly and at distance it may do Service c. towards bringing Men to embrace that Truth which otherwise they would never be acquainted with c. In which Proposition 1. There is something impracticable 2. Something unjust And 3. Whatever Efficacy there is in Force your way apply'd to bring Men to consider and be convinced it makes against you 1. It is impracticable to punish Dissenters as Dissenters only to make them consider For if you punish them as Dissenters as certainly you do if you punish them alone and them all without exception you punish them for not being of the National Religion And to punish a Man for not being of the National Religion is not to punish him only to make him consider unless not to be of the National Religion and not to consider be the same thing But you will say the design is only to make Dissenters consider and therefore they may be punished only to make them consider To this I reply It is impossible you should punish one with a design only to make him consider whom you punish for something else besides want of Consideration or if you punish him whether he consider or no as you do if you lay Penalties on Dissenters in general If you should make a Law to punish all Stammerers could any one believe you if you said it was designed only to make them leave Swearing Would not every one see it was impossible that punishment should be only against Swweating when all Stammerers were under the penalty Such a proposal as this is in it self at first sight monstrously absurd But you must thank your self for it For to lay penalties upon Stammerers only to make them not swear is not more absurd and impossible than it is to lay Penalties upon Dissenters only to make them consider 2. To punish Men out of the Communion of the National Church to make them consider is unjust Tlsey are punished because out of the National Church And they are out of the National Church because they are not yet convinced Their standing out therefore in this State whilst they are not convinced not satisfied in their Minds is no Fault and therefore cannot justly be punished But your method is Punish them to make them consider such Reasons and Arguments as are proper to convince them Which is just such Justice as it would be for the Magistrate to punish you for not being a Cartesian only to bring you to consider such Reasons and Arguments as are proper and sufficient to convince you When it is possible 1. That you being satisfied of the truth of your own Opinion in Philosophy did not judg it worth while to consider that of Des Cartes 2. It is possible you are not able to consider and examine all the Proofs and Grounds upon which he endeavours to establish his Philosophy 3. Possibly you have examined and can sind no Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince you 3. What ever indirect Efficacy there be in Force apply'd by the Magistrate your way it makes against you Force used by the Magistrate to bring Men to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince them but which without being forced they would not consider may say you be serviceable indirectly and at a distance to make Men imbrace the Truth which must save them And thus say I it may be serviceable to bring Men to receive and imbrace Falshood which will destroy them So that Force and Punishment by your own confession not being able directly by its proper Efficacy to do Men any good in reference to their future Estate though it be sure directly to do them harm in reference to their present condition here and indirectly and in your way of applying it being proper to do at least as much harm as good I desire to know what the Vsefulness is which so much recommends it even to a degree that you pretend it needful and necessary Had you some new untry'd Chymical Preparation that was as proper to kill as to save an infirm Man of whose Life I hope you would not be more tender than of a weak Brother's Soul would you give it your Child or try it upon your Friend or recommend it to the World for its rare Usefulness I deal very favourably with you when I say as proper to kill as to save For Force in your indirect way of the Magistrates applying it to make Men consider those Arâ—…uments that otherwise they would not to make them lend an Ear to those who tell them they have mistaken their Way and offer to shew them the right I say in this Way Force is much more proper and likely to make Men receive and imbrace Error than the Truth 1. Because Men out of the right Way are as apt I think I may say apter to use Force than others For Truth I mean the Truth of the Gospel which is that of the True Religion is mild and gentle and meek and apter to use Prayers and Intreaties than Force to gain a hearing 2. Because the Magistrates of the World or the Civil Soveraigns as you think it more proper to call them being few of them in the right Way not one of ten take which side you will perhaps you will grant not one of an hundred being of the True Religion 't is likely your indirect way of using of Force would do an hundred or at least ten times as much harm as good Especially if you consider that as the Magistrate will certainly use it to force Men to hearken to the proper Ministers of his Religion let it be what it will so you having set no Time nor bounds to this consideration of Arguments and Reasons short of being convinced you under another pretence put into the Magistrate's Hands as much Power to sorce Men to his Religion as any the openest Persecutors can pretend to For what difference I beseech you between punishing you to bring you to Mass and punishing you to bring you to consider those Reasons and Arguments which are proper and sufficient to convince you that you ought to go to Mass For till you are brought to consider Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince you that is till you are convinced you are punished on If you reply you meant Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince them of the Truth I answer if you meant so why did
impartially to examine a Religion which they embraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it What Human Method can be used to bring them to act like Men in an Affair of such Consequence and to make a wiser and more rational Choice but that of laying such Penalties upon them as may ballance the weight of those Prejudices which inclin'd them to prefer a false Way before the true and recover them to so much Sobriety and Reflection as seriously to put the Question to themselves Whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniencies for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false or for rejecting another if that be the case which for any thing they know may be true till they have brought it to the Bar of Reason and given it a fair trial there Here you again bring in such as prefer a false Way before a true To which having answered already I shall here say no more but that since our Church will not allow those to be in a false Way who are out of the Church of Rome because the Church of Rome which pretends Infallibity declares hers to be the only true Way certainly no one of our Church nor any other which claims not Infallibility can require any one to take the Testimony of any Church as a sufficient Proof of the Truth of her own Doctrine So that true and false as it commonly happens when we suppose them for our selves or our Party in essect signify just nothing or nothing to the purpose unless we can think that true or false in England which will not be so at Rome or Geneva and Vice versâ As for the rest of the Description of those on whom you are here laying Penalties I beseech you consider whether it will not belong to any of your Church let it be what it will Consider I say if there be none in your Church who have imbrac'd her Religion upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the matter and therefore with little or no Examination of the proper Grounds of it who have not been inclin'd by Prejudices who do not adhere to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false and who have rejected another which for any thing they know may be true If you have any such in your Communion and 't will be an admirable tho I fear but a little Flock that has none such in it consider well what you have done You have prepared Rods for them for which I imagine they will con you no Thanks For to make any tolerable Sense of what you here propose it must be understood that you would have Men of all Religions punished to make them consider whether it be really worth the while to undergo such Inconveniencies for adhering to a Religion which for any thing they know may be false If you hope to avoid that by what you have said of true and false and pretend that the supposed preference of the true Way in your Church ought to preserve its Members from your Punishment you manifestly triste For every Church's Testimony that it has chosen the true Way must be taken for it self and then none will be liable and your new Invention of Punishment is come to nothing Or else the differing Churches Testimonies must be taken one for another and then they will be all out of the tâ—…ue Way and your Church need Penalties as well as the rest So that upon your Principles they must all or none be punished Chuse which you please One of them I think you cannot escape What you say in the next words Where Instruction is stifly refused and all Admonitions and Perswasions prove vain and ineffectual differs nothing but in the way of expressing from Deaf to all Perswasions And so that is answer'd already In another place you give us another description of those you think ought to be punished in these words Those who refuse to embrace the Doctrine and submit to the Spiritual Government of the proper Ministers of Religion who by special designation are appointed to Exhort Admonish Reprove c. Here then those to be punished are such who refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of Religion Whereby we are as much still at uncertainty as we were before who those are who by your Scheme and Laws suitable to it are to be punished Since every Church has as it thinks its proper Ministers of Religion And if you mean those that refuse to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Ministers of another Church then all Men will be guilty and must be punished even those of your Church as well as others If you mean those who refuse c. the Ministers of their own Church very few will incur your Penalties But if by these Proper Ministers of Religion the Ministers of some particular Church are intended why do you not name it Why are you so reserv'd in a Matter wherein if you speak not out all the rest that you say will be to no purpose Are Men to be punished for refusing to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the proper Ministers of the Church of Geneva For this time since you have declared nothing to the contrary let me suppose you of that Church And then I am sure that is it that you would name For of what-ever Church you are if you think the Ministers of any one Church ought to be hearken'd to and obey'd it must be those of your own There are Persons to be punished you say This you contend for all through your Book and lay so much stress on it that you make the Preservation and Propagation of Religion and the Salvation of Souls to depend on it And yet you describe them by so general and equivocal Marks that unless it be upon Suppositions which no Body will grant you I dare say neither you nor any Body else will be able to find one guilty Pray find me if you can a Man whom you can judicially prove for he that is to be punished by Law must be fairly tried is in a wrong way in respect of his Faith I mean who is deaf to all Perswasions who flies from all Means of a right Information who refuses to imbrace the Doctrine and submit to the Government of the Spiritual Pastors And when you have done that I think I may allow you what Power you please to punish him without any prejudice to the Toleration the Author of the Letter proposes But why I pray all this bogling all this loose talking as if you knew not what you meant or durst not speak it out Would you be for punishing some Body you know not whom I do not think so ill of you Let me then speak out for you
the Magistrate For if it be the Power of the Magistrate it is his And what need the People vest it in him unless there be need and it be the best course they can take to vest a Power in the Magistrate which he has already 2dly Another pleasant thing you here say is That the Power of the Magistrates is to bring men to such a care of their Salvation that they may not blindly leave it to the choice of any person or their own lusts or passions to prescribe to them what faith or worship they shall imbrace And yet that 't is their best course to vest a Power in the Magistrate liable to the same lusts and passions as themselves to chuse for them For if they vest a Power in the Magistrate to punish them when they dissent from his Religion to bring them to act even against their own inclination according to reason and sound judgment which is as you explain your self in another place to bring them to consider Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince them How far is this from leaving it to the choice of another man to prescribe to them what Faith or Worship they shall imbrace Especially if we consider that you think it a strange thing That the Author would have the care of every man's Soul left to himself alone So that this care being vested in the Magistrate with a Power to punish men to make them consider Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince them of the Truth of his Religion the choice is evidently in the Magistrate As much as it can be in the power of one man to chuse for another what Religion he shall be of which consists only in a Power of compelling him by Punishments to embrace it I do neither you nor the Magistrate Injury when I say that the Power you give the Magistrate of punishing men to make them consider reasons and arguments proper and sufficient to convince them is to convince them of the truth of his Religion and to bring them to it For Men will never in his opinion Act according to Reason and sound Judgment which is the thing you here say Men should be brought to by the Magistrate even against their own Inclination till they imbrace his Religion And if you have the brow of an Honest Man you will not say the Magistrate will ever punish you to bring you to consider any other Reasons and Arguments but such as are proper to convince you of the truth of his Religion and to bring you to that Thus you shift forwards and backwards You say The Magistrate has no Power to punish Men to compel them to his Religion but only to compel them to consider Reasons and Arguments proper to convince them of the truth of his Religion which is all one as to say no Body has Power to chuse your way for you to Jerusalem But yet the Lord of the Mannor has Power to punish you to bring you to consider Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince you of what That the way he goes in is the right and so to make you joyn in Company and go along with him So that in effect what is all your going about but to come at last to the same place again and put a Power into the Magistrate's hands under another pretence to compel Men to his Religion which use os Force the Author has sufficiently overthrown and you your self have quitted But I am tired to follow you so often round the same Circle You speak of it here as the most deplorable Condition imaginable that Men should be left to themselves and not be forced to consider and examine the Grounds of their Religion and search impartially and diligently after the truth This you make the great miscarriage of Mankind And for this you seem solicitous all through your Treatise to find out a Remedy and there is scarce a Leaf wherein you do not offer yours But what if after all now you should be found to prevaricate Men have contrived to themselves say you a great variety of Religions 'T is granted They seek not the Truth in this matter with that Application of Mind and that freedom of Judgment which is requisite 'T is confessed All the false Religions now on foot in the World have taken their rise from the slight and partial Consideration which Men have contented themselves with in searching after the true and Men take them up and persist in them for want of due Examination Be it so There is need of a Remedy for this and I have found one whose Success cannot be questioned Very well What is it Let us hear it Why Dissenters must be punished Can any Body that hears you say so believe you in earnest and that want of Examination is the thing you would have amended when want of Examination is not the thing you would have punished If want of Examination be the fault want of Examination must be punished if you are as you pretend fully satisfied that Punishment is the proper and only means to remedy it But if in all your Treatise you can shew me one place where you say That the Ignorant the Careless the Inconsiderate the Negligent in examining throughly the truth of their own and others Religion c. are to be punished I wâ—…ll allow your remedy for a good one But you have not said any thing like this and which is more I tell you before hand you dare not say it And whilst you do not the World has reason to judg that however want of Examination be a general Fault which you with great Vehemency have exaggerated yet you use it only for a pretence to punish Dissenters and either distrust your remedy that it will not cure this Evil or else care not to have it generally cur'd This evidently appears from your whole management of the Argument And he that reads your Tâ—…eatise with attention will be more confirm'd in this Opinion when he shall find that you who are so earnest to have Men punished to bring them to consider and examine that so they may discover the way to Salvation have not said one word of considering searching and hearkening to the Scripture which had been as good a rule for a Christian to have sent them to as to Reasons and Arguments prâ—…per to convince them of you know not what As to the Inâ—…ction and Government of the proper Ministers of Religion which who they are Men are yet â—…ar from being agreed Or as to the â—…formation of â—…hose who tell them they have mistakâ—…n their way and offer to shew them the right and to the like uncertain and dangerous Guides whâ—…ch were not those that our Saviour and the Apostles sent Men to but to the Scriptures Sâ—…arch the Scriptures for in them you think you have â—…nal Life says our Saviour to the unbelieving persecuting Jews 〈◊〉 5.39 And 't is the Scriptures which St. Pauls says
Men compell'd to hear but thought the good Tidings of Salvation and the Proposals of Life and Death Means and Inducements enough to make them hear and consider now as well as heretofore Then your Means your Punishments are not necessary What if God would have Men left to their freedom in this Point if they will hear or if they will forbear will you constrain them Thus we are sure he did with his own People And this when they were in Captivity And 't is very like were ill treated for being of a different Religion from the National and so were punished as Dissenters Yet then God expected not that those Punishments should force them to hearken more than at other times As appears by Ezek. 3.11 And this also is the Method of the Gospel We are Ambassadors for Christ as if God did beseech by us we pray in Christ's stead says St. Paul 2 Cor. v. 20. If God had thought it necessary to have Men punish'd to make them give Ear he could have call'd Magistrates to be Spreaders and Ministers of the Gospel as well as poor Fisher-men or Paul a Persecutor who yet wanted not Power to punish where Punishment was necessary as is evident in Ananias and Sapphira and the incestuous Corinthian 2ly What if God foreseeing this Force would be in the hands of Men as passionate as humoursome as liable to Prejudice and Error as the rest of their Brethren did not think it a proper Means to bring Men into the Right Way 3ly What if there be other Means Then yours ceases to be necessary upon the account that there is no means left For you your self allow That the Grace of God is another means And I suppose you will not deny it to be both a proper and sufficient Means and which is more the only Means such Means as can work by it self and without which all the Force in the World can do nothing God alone can open the Ear that it may hear and open the Heart that it may understand and this he does in his own good Time and to whom he is graciously pleas'd but not according to the Will and Phancy of Man when he thinks sit by Punishments to compel his Brethren If God has pronounced against any Person or People what he did against the Jews Isa. 6.10 Make the Heart of this People fat and make their Ears heavy and shut their Eyes lest they see with their Eyes and hear with their Ears and understand with their Hearts and convert and be healed Will all the Force you can use be a Means to make them hear and understand and be converted But Sir to return your Argument You see no other Means left taking the World as we now find it to make Men throughly and impartially examine a Religion which they imbraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the Matter and with little or no examination of the proper Grounds of it And thence you conclude the use of Force by the Magistrate upon Dissenters necessary And I say I see no other Means left taking the World as we now find it wherein the Magistrates never lay Penalties for Matters of Religion upon those of his own Church nor is it to be expected they ever should to make Men of the National Church any where throughly and impartially examine a Religion which they imbraced upon such Inducements as ought to have no sway at all in the Matter and therefore with little or no examination of the proper Grounds of it And therefore I conclude the use of Force by Dissentâ—…rs upon Conformists necessary I appeal to the World whether this be not as just and natural a Conclusion as yours Though if you will have my Opinion I think the more genuine Consequence is that Force to make Men examine Matters of Religion is not necessary at all But you may take which of these Consequences you please Both of them I am sure you cannot avoid It is not for you and me out of an imagination that they may be useful or are necessary to prescribe means in the great and mysterious Work of Salvation other than what God himself has directed God has appointed Force as useful and necessary and therefore it is to be used is a way of Arguing becoming the Ignorance and Humility of poor Creatures But I think Force useful or necessary and therefore it is to be used has methinks a little too much presumption in it You ask What Means else is there left None say I to be used by Man but what God himself has directed in the Scriptures wherein are contained all the Means and Methods of Salvation Faith is the Gift of God And we are not to use any other Means to procure this Gift to any one but what God himself has prescribed If he has there appointed that any should be forced to hear those who tell them they have mistaken their way and offer to shew them the right and that they should be punished by the Magistrate if they did not 't will be past doubt it is to be made use of But till that can be done 't will be in vain to say what other Means is there left If all the Means God has appointed to make Men hear and consider be Exhortation in Season and out of Season c. together with Prayer for them and the Example of Meekness and a good Life this is all ought to be done Whether they will hear or whether they will forbear By these means the Gospel at first made it self to be heard through a great part of the World and in a crooked and perverse Generation led away by Lusts Humours and Prejudice as well as this you complain of prevail'd with Men to hear and imbrace the Truth and take care of their own Souls without the assistance of any such Force of the Magistrate which you now think needful But whatever Neglect or Aversion there is in some Men impartially and throughly to be instructed there will upon a due Examination I fear be found no less a Neglect and Aversion in others impartially and throughly to instruct them 'T is not the talking even general Truths in plain and clear Language much less a Man 's own Fancies in Scholastick or uncommon ways of speaking an hour or two once a week in publick that is enough to instruct even willing Hearers in the way of Salvation and the Grounds of their Religion They are not Politick Discourses which are the means of right Information in the Foundations of Religion For with such sometimes venting Antimonarchical Principles sometimes again preaching up nothing but absolute Monarchy and Passive Obedience as the one or other have been in vogue and the way to Preferment have our Churches rung in their turns so loudly that Reasons and Arguments proper and sufficient to convince Men of the Truth in the controverted Points of Religion and to direct them in the right way to Salvation were scarce
any were to be heard But how many do you think by Friendly and Christian Debates with them at their Houses and by the gentle Methods of the Gospel made use of in private Conversation might have been brought into the Church who by railing from the Pulpit ill and unfriendly Treatment out of it and other Neglects or Miscarriages of those who claimed to be their Teachers have been driven from hearing them Paint the Defects and Miscarriages frequent on this side as well as you have done those on the other and then do you with all the World consider whether those who you so handsomely declaim against for being misled by Education Passion Humour Prejudice Obstinacy c. do deserve all the Punishment Perhaps it will be answered If there be so much toil in it that particular Persons must be apply'd to who then will be a Minister And what if a Lay-man should reply If there be so much toil in it that Doubts must be cleared Prejudices removed Foundations examined c. Who then will be a Protestant The Excuse will be as good hereafter for the one as for the other This new Method of yours which you say no body can deny but that indirectly and at a distance it does some Service towards bringing Men to embrace the Truth was never yet thought on by the most refined Persecutors Tho indeed it is not altogether unlike the Plea made use of to excuse the late barbarous Usage of the Protestants in France designed to extirpate the Reformed Religion there from being a Persecution for Religion The French King requires all his Subjects to come to Mass. Those who do not are punished with a witness For what Not for their Religion say the Pleaders for that Discipline but for disobeying the King's Laws So by your Rule the Dissenters for thither you would and thither you must come if you mean any thing must be punished For what Not for their Religion say you not for following the Light of their own Reason not for obeying the Dictates of their own Consciences That you think not fit For what then are they to be punished To make them say you examine the Religion they have imbraced and the Religion they have rejected So that they are punished not for having offended against a Law For there is no Law of the Land that requires them to examine And which now is the fairer Plea pray judg You ought indeed to have the Credit of this new Invention All other Law-makers have constantly taken this Method that where any thing was to be amended the Fault was first declared and then Penalties denounced against all those who after a time set should be found guilty of it This the common Sense of Mankind and the very Reason of Laws which are intended not for Punishment but Correction has made so plain that the subtilest and most resined Law-makers have not gone out of this course nor have the most ignorant and barbarous Nations mist it But you have out-done Solon and Lycurgus Moses and our Saviour and are resolved to be a Law-maker of a way by your self 'T is an old and obsolete way and will not serve your turn to begin with Warnings and Threats of Penalties to be inflicted on those who do not reform but continue to do that which you think they fail in To allow of Impunity to the Innocent or the opportunity of Amendment to those who would avoid the Penalties are Formalities not worth your notice You are for a shorter and surer way Take a whole Tribe and punish them at all Adventures whether guilty or no of the Miscarriage which you would have amended or without so much as telling them what it is you would have them do but leaving them to find it out if they can All these Absurdities are contained in your way of proceeding and are impossible to be avoided by any one who will punish Dissenters and only Dissenters to make them consider and weigh the Grounds of their Religion and impartially examine whether it be true or no and upon what Grounds they took it up that so they may find and imbrace the Truth that must save them But that this new sort of Discipline may have all fair play let us enquire First Who it is you would have be punished In the place above cited they are those who are got into a wrong way and are deaf to all Perswasions If these are the Men to be punished let a Law be made against them you have my Consent and that is the proper course to have Offenders punished For you do not I hope intend to punish any fault by a Law which you do not name in the Law nor make a Law against any fault you would not have punished And now if you are sincere and in earnest and are as a fair Man should be sor what your words plainly signify and nothing else what will such a Law serve for Men in the wrong Way are to be punished but who are in the wrong Way is the Question You have no more reason to determine it against one who differs from you than he has to conclude against you who differ from him No not tho you have the Magistrate and the National Church on your side For if to differ from them be to be in the wrong Way you who are in the right Way in England will be in the wrong Way in France Every one here must be judg for himself And your Law will reach no body till you have convinced him he is in the wrong Way And then there will be no need of Punishment to make him consider unless you will assirm again what you have deny'd and have Men punished for imbracing the Religion they believe to be true when it differs from yours or the Publick Besides being in the wrong Way those who you would have punished must be such as are deaf to all Perswasions But any such I suppose you will hardly sind who hearken to no body not to those of their own Way If you mean by deaf to all Perswasions all Perswasions of a contrary Party or of a different Church such I suppose you may abundantly find in your own Church as well as else-where and I presume to them you are so charitable that you would not have them punished for not lending an Ear to Seducers For Constancy in the Truth and Perseverance in the Faith is I hope rather to be incouraged than by any Penalties check'd in the Orthodox And your Church doubtless as well as all others is Orthodox to it self in all its Tenets If you mean by all Perswasion all your Perswasion or all Perswasion of those of your Communion you do but beg the Question and suppose you have a right to punish those who differ from and will not comply with you Your next words are When Men fly from the means of a right Information and will not so much as consider how reasonable it is throughly and
Man that he might not blindly leave it to the choice of his Parish-Priest or Bishop or the Convocation what Faith or Worship he should imbrace 'T will be suspected care of a Party or any thing else rather than care of the Salvation of Mens Souls if having found out so useful so necessary a Remedy the only Method there is room left for you will apply it but partially and make trial of it only on those who you have truly least kindness for This will unavoidably give one Reason to imagine you do not think so well of your Remedy as you pretend who are so sparing of it to your Friends but are very free of it to Strangers who in other things are used very much like Enemies But your Remedy is like the Helleboraster that grew in the Woman's Garden for the cure of Worms in her Neighbours Children For truly it wrought too roughly to give it to any of her own Methinks your Charity in your present Persecution is much what as prudent as justisiable as that good Woman's I hope I have done you no Injury that I here suppose you of the Church of England If I have I beg your Pardon It is no offence of Malice I I assure you For I suppose no worse of you than I confess of my self Sometimes this Punishment that you contend for is to bring Men to act according to Reason and sound Judgment Tertius è Coelo cecidit Cato This is Reformation indeed If you can help us to it you will deserve Statues to be erected to you as to the Restorer of decay'd Religion But if all Men have not Reason and sound Judgment will Punishment put it into them Besides concerning this matter Mankind is so divided that he acts according to Reason and sound Judgment at Auspurg who who would be judged to do the quite contrary at Edinburgh Will Punishment make Men know what is Reason and sound Judgment If it will not 't is impossible it should make them act according to it Reason and sound Judgment are the Elixir it self the universal Remedy And you may as reasonably punish Men to bring them to have the Philosopher's Stone as to bring them to act according to Reason and sound Judgment Sometimes it is To put Men upon a serious and impartial Examination of the Controversy between the Magistrate and them which is the way for them to come to the Knowledg of the Truth But what if the Truth be on neither side as I am apt to imagine you will think it is not where neither the Magistrate nor the Dissenter is either of them of your Church how will the examining the Controversy between the Magistrate and him be the way to come to the Knowledg of the Truth Suppose the Controversy between a Lutheran and a Papist or if you please between a Presbyterian Magistrate and a Quaker Subject Will the examining the Controversy between the Magistrate and the Dissenting Subject in this case bring him to the Knowledg of the Truth If you say yes then you grant one of these to have the Truth on his side For the examining the Controversy between a Presbyterian and a Quaker leaves the Controversy either of them has with the Church of England or any other Church untouched And so one at least of those being already come to the Knowledg of the Truth ought not to be put under your Discipline of Punishment which is only to bring him to the Truth If you say no and that the examining the Controversy between the Magistrate and the Dissenter in this case will not bring him to the Knowledg of the Truth you consess your Rule to be salse and your Method to no purpose To conclude your System is in short this You would have all Men laying aside Prejudice Humour Passion c. examin the Grounds of their Religion and search for the Truth This I consess is heartily to be wish'd The means that you propose to make Men do this is that Dissenters should be punished to make them do so It is as if you had said Men generally are guilty of a Fault therefore lâ—…t one Sect who have the ill luck to be of an Opinion different from the Magistrate be punished This at first sight shocks any who has the least spark of Sense Reason or Justice But having spoken of this already and concluding that upon second thoughts you your self will be ashamed of it let us consider it put so as to be consistent with common Sense and with all the advantage it can bear and then let us see what you can make os it Men are negligent in examining the Religions they imbrace refuse or persist in therefore it is sit they should be punished to make them do it This is a Conâ—…e indeed which may without desiance to common Sâ—…nse be drawn from it This is the use the only use which you think Punishment can indirectly and at a distance have in matters of Religion You would have Men by Punishments dâ—…iven to examine What Religion To what end To bring them to the Knowledg of the Truth But I answer First Every one has not the Ability to do this Secondly Every one has not the opportunity to do it Would you have every poor Protestant for Example in the Palatinate examine throughly whether the Pope bâ—… insalliblâ—… or Head of the Church whether there be a Purgatory whether Saints are to be pray'd to or the Dead pray'd sor whether the Sâ—…ripture be the only Rule of Faith whether there be no Salvantion out of the Church and whether there be no Church without Bishops and an hundred other Questions in Controversy between the Papists and those Protestants and when he had master'd these go on to sortify himself against the Opinions and Objections of other Churches he dissers from This which is no small Task must be done before a Man can have brought his Religion to the Bar of Reason and given it fair trial there And if you will punish Men till this be done the Country-man must leave off plowing and sowing and betake himself to the Study of Greek and Latin and the Artisan must sell his Tools to buy Fathers and School-men and leave his Family to starve If something less than this will satisfy you pray tell me what is enough Have they considered and examined enough if they are satisfied themselves where the Truth lies If this be the limits of their Examination you will sind sew to punish unless you will punish them to make them do what they have done already For however he came by his Religion there is scarce any one to be found who does not own himself satisfied that he is in the right Or else must they be punished to make them consider and examine till they imbrace that which you choose for Truth If this be so what do you but in effect choose for them when yet you would have Men punished To bring them to such a
do well to put in your claim for them tho the Author excludes them no more than their Neighbours Nay they must be allow'd the pretence of the fairest Title For I never read of any seâ—…es that were to bring Men to Christ but those of the Law of Mâ—… which is therefore call'd a Pedâ—…gue Gal. 3 14. And the next Verse tells us That aftâ—…r that Faith is câ—…e 〈◊〉 are no longer under a School-master But yet if we are still to be driven to Christ by a Rod I shall not envy them the pleasure of wiâ—…ng it only 〈◊〉 desire them when they have got the Scourge into their Hands to remember our Saviour and sollow his Example who never us'd it but once and that they would like him imploy it only to drive vile and seandâ—…ons Trasikers for the things of this World out of their Church râ—…ther than to drive whoever they can into it Whether that latter be not a proper method to make their Church what our Saviour there pronounced of the â—…emple they who use it were best look For in matters of Religion none are so easy to be so driven as those who have nothing of Religion at all and next to them the Vicious the Ignorant the Worldling and the Hypocrite Who care for no more of Religion but the Name nor no more of any Church but its Prosperity and Power and who not unlike those describ'd by our Saviour Luke 20.47 for a shew come to or cry up the Prayers of the Church That they may devâ—…ur Widows and other helpless People's houses I say not this of the serious Professors of any Church who are in earnest in matters of Religion Such I value who conscientiously and out of a sincere Perswasion imbrace any Religion tho different from mine and in a way I think mistaken But no body can have reason to think otherwise than what I have said of those who are wrought upon to be of any Church by secular hopes and fears Those truly place Trade above all other Considerations and Merchandize with Religion it self who regulate their choice by worldly Profit and Loss You endeavour to prove against the Author that Civil Society is not instituted only for Civil Ends i. e. The procuring preserving and advancing Mens Civil Interests Your words are I must say that our Author does but beg the Question when he affirms that the Commonwealth is constituted only for the procuring preserving and advancing of the Civil Interests of the Members of it That Commonwealths are instituted for these Ends no Man will deny But if there be any other ends besides these attainable by the Civil Society and Government there is no reason to affirm That these are the only ends for which they are designed Doubtless Common-wealths are instituted for the attaining of all the Benefits which Political Government can yield And therefore if the Spiritual and Eternal Interests of Men may any way be procured or advanced by Political Government the procuring and advancing those Interests must in all reason be reckon'd among the Ends of Civil Societies and so consequently fall within the compass of the Magistrates Jurisdiction I have set down your words at large to let the Reader see That you of all Men had the least reason to tell the Author he does but beg the Question unless you mean to justify your self by the pretence of his Example You argue thus If there be any other Ends attainable by Civil Society then Civil Interests are not the only Ends for which Commonwealths are instituted And how do you prove there be other ends Why thus Doubtless Commonwealths are instituted for the attaining all the Benefits which Political Government can yeild Which is as clear a Demonstration as Doubtless can make it to be The Question is Whether Civil Society be instituted only for Civil Ends You say No and your proof is Because Doubtless it is instituted for other Ends. If I now say Doubtless this is a good argument is not every one bound without more ado to admit it for such If not Doubtless you are in danger to be thought to beg the Question But notwithstanding you say here That the Author begs the Question In the following Page you tell us That the Author offer three Considerations which seem to him abundantly to demonstrate that the Civil Power neither can nor ought in any manner to be extended to the Salvation of Souls He does not then beg the Question For the Question being Whether Civil Interest be the only End of Civil Society he gives this reason for the Negative That Civil Power has nothing to do with the Salvation of Souls and offers three Considerations for the proof of it For it will always be a good consequence that if the Civil Power has nothing to do with the Salvation of Souls then Civil Interest is the only End of Civil Society And the reason of it is plain Because a Man having no other Interest but either in this World or the World to come if the End of Civil Society reach not to a Man's Interest in the other World all which is comprehended in the Salvation of his Soul 't is plain that the sole End of Civil Society is Civil Interest under which the Author comprehends the good things of this World And now let us examine the Truth of your main Position viz. That Civil Society is instituted for the attaining all the Benefits that it may any way yeild Which if true then this Position must be true viz. That all Societies whatsoever are instituted for the attaining all the Benefits that they may any way yeild there being nothing peculiar to Civil Society in the Case why that Society should be instituted for the attaining all the Benefits it can any way yeild and other Societies not By which Argument it will follow That all Societies are instituted for one and the same End i. e. for the attaining all the Benefits that they can any way yeild By which account there will be no difference between Church and State A Commonwealth and an Army or between a Family and the East-India Company all which have hitherto been thought distinct sorts of Societies instituted for different Ends. If your Hypothesis hold good one of the Ends of the Family must be to Preach the Gospel and Administer the Sacraments and one business of an Army to teach Languages and propâ—…gate Religion because these are Benefits some way or other attainable by those Societies Unless you take want of Commission and Authority to be a sufficient Impediment And that will be so too in other cases 'T is a benefit to have true Knowledg and Philosophy imbraced and assented to in any Civil Society or Government But will you say therefore that it is a benefit to the Society or one of the Ends of Government that all who are not Peripateticks should be punished to make Men find out the Truth and prosess it This indeed might be thought a fit
way to make some Men imbrace the Peripatetick Philosophy but not a proper way to find the Truth For perhaps the Peripatetick Philosophy may not be true perhaps a great many have not time nor Parts to Study it perhaps a great many who have studied it cannot be convinced of the truth of it And therefore it cannot be a benefit to the Commonwealth nor one of the Ends of it that these Members of the Society should be disturb'd and diseas'd to no purpose when they are guilty of no fault For just the same reason it cannot be a benefit to â—…ivil Society that Men should be pun shed in Denmark for not being Luâ—…rans in Geneva for not being Calvinists and in Viâ—…nna for not being Papists as a means to make them find out the true Religion For so upon your grounds Men most be treated in those places as well as in England for not being of the Church of England And then I beseech you consider the great benefit will accrue to Men in Society by this method And I suppose it will be a hard thing for you to prove That ever Civil Governments were instituted to punâ—…sh Men for not being of this or that Sect in Religion however by accident indirectly and at a distance it may be an occasion to one perhaps of a thousand or an hundred to study that Controversy which is all you expect from it If it be a Benefit pray tell me what Benefit it is A Civil Benefit it cannot be For Mens Civil Interests are disturb'd injur'd and impair'd by it And what Spiritual Benefit that can be to any multitude of Men to be punâ—…shed for Dissenting from a false or erroneous Prosession I would have you sind out unless it be a Spiritual Benefit to be in danger to be driven into a wrong way For if in all differing Sects one is in the wrong 't is a hundred to one but that from which one Dissents and is punished for Dissenting from is the wrong I grant it is past doubt That the Nature of Man is so covetous of Good that no one would have excluded from any Action he does or from any Institution he is concerned in any manner of Good or Benefit that it might any way yeild And if this be your meaning it will not be denied you But then you speak very improperly or rather very mistakenly if you call such benefits as may any way i. e. indirectly and at a distance or by accident be attain'd by Civil or any other Society the Ends for which it is instituted Nothing can in reason be reckon'd amongst the Ends of any Sâ—…ty but what may in reason be supposed to be designed by those who enter into it â—…ow no body can in reason suppose that any one entâ—…ed into Civil Society for the procuring securing or advancing the salvation of his Soulâ—… when he for that end needed not the Force of Civil Society The procuring therefore sâ—…ing and advancing the Spiritual and Eâ—…ernal Interest of men cannot in reason be reckon'd amongst the Ends of Civil Societies Tho perhaps it might so fall out that in some particular instance some mans spiritual Interest might be advanced by your or any other way of applying Civil Force A Nobleman whose Chappel is decayed or â—…allen may make â—…se of his Dining-room for Praying and Preaching Yet whatever 〈◊〉 were attainable by this use of the room no body can in reason reckon this among the Ends for which it was built no more than the accidental breeding of some Bird in any part of it tho it were a Benefit it yielded could in reason be reckon'd among the Ends of building the House But say you Doubtless Commonwealths are instituted for the attaining of all the Bâ—…nefits which pelitical Government can yield and therefore if the Spiritual and Etâ—…rnal Interests of men may any way be procur'd or advanc'd by Pâ—…litical Government the procuring and advancing those Interests must in all reason be reckâ—…n'd amongst the Eâ—…ds of Civil Sâ—…ciety and so conâ—…quently fall within the compass of the Magistrates Jurisdiction Upon the same Grounds I thus reason Doubtless Churches are instituted â—…or the attaining of all the Benefits which Ecclesiastical Government can yield And therefore if the Temporal and Secular Interests â—…f men maâ—… any way be procured or advanced by Ecclesiasticâ—…l Polâ—…y the 〈◊〉 and advancing those Interests must in all reason be reckoned among the Ends of Religious Societies and so consequently fall within the compass of Church-mens Jurisdiction The Church of Rome has openly made its advantage of Secular Interests to be precured or advanced indirectly and at a distance and in ordâ—…e ad spiritualia all which ways if I mistake not English are comprehended under your any way But I do not remember that any of the Reformed Churches have hitherto directly professed it But there is a time for all things And if the Commonwealth once invades the spiritual Ends of the Church by medling with the Salvation of Souls which she has alway been so tender of who can deny that the Church should have liberty to make her self some amends by Reprisals But Sir however you and I may argue from wrong suppositions yet unless the Apostle Eph. 4 where he reckons up the Church-Officers which Christ had instituted in his Churh had told us they were for some other Ends than for the perfecting of the Saints for the work of the Ministry for the edifying of the Body of Christ the advancing of their secular Interests will scarce be allow'd to be their business or within the compass of their Jurisdiction Nor till it can be shewn that Civil Society is instituted for Spiritual Ends or that the Magistrate has commission to interpose his Authority or use Force in matters of Religion your supposition of Spiritual Benefits indirectly and at a distance attainable by Political Government will never prove the advancing of those Interests by Force to be the Magistrates business and to fall within the compass of his Jurisdiction And till then the Force of the Arguments which the Author has brought against it in the 7th and following Pages of his Letter will hold good Common-wealths or Civil Societies and Governments if you will believe the judicious Mr. Hooker are as St. Peter calls them 1 Pet. 2.13 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the contrivance and institution of man and he shews there for what end viz. for the Punishment of evil doers and the praise of them that do well I do not find any where that it is for the punishment of those who are not in Church Communion with the Magistrate to make them study Controversies in Religion or hearken to those who will tell them they have mistaken their way and offer to show them the right one You must shew them such a Commission if you say it is from God And in all Societies instituted by man the Ends of them can be no other than what the Institutors appointed which I am sure
are able to make wise unto Salvation 〈◊〉 Tim. 3.15 Talk no more therefore if you have any care of your Reputation how much it is every Man's Interest not to be left to himself without Molestation without Punishment in matters of Religâ—…on Talk not of bringing Men to embrace the Truth that must save them by putting them upon Examination Talk no more of Force and Punishment as the only way left to bring Men to examine 'T is evident you mean nothing less For tho want of Examination be the only fault you complain of and Punishment be in your Opinion the only way to bring Men to it and this the whole design of your Book yet you have not once proposed in it that those who do not impartially examine should be forced to it And that you may not think I talk at random when I say you dare not I will if you please give you some Reasons for my saying so First Because if you propose that all should be punished who are ignorant who have not used such Consideration as is apt and proper to manifest the Truth but â—…ave been determined in the choice of their Religion by Impressions of Education Admiration of Persons wâ—…rldly Respects Prejudices and the like incompetent Motives and have takâ—…n up their Religion without examining it as they ought you will propose to have several of your own Church be it what it will pâ—…nished which would be a Proposition too apt to oâ—…end too many of it for you to venture on For whatever need there be of Reâ—…ormation every one will not thank you for proposing such an one as must begin at or at least reach to the House of God Secondly Because if you should propose that all those who are Ignorant Careless and Negligent in examining should be punished you would have little to say in this Question of Toleration For if the Laws of the State were made as they ought to be eqâ—…al to all the Subjects without distinction of â—…en of dâ—…erent Professions in Religion and the Faults to be amended by Punishments were impartially punished in all who are guilty of them this would immediately produce a perfect Toleration or shew the uselesness of Force in Matters of Religion If therefore you think it so necessâ—…ry as you say for the promoting of tâ—…ue Religion and the Salvation of Souls that Meâ—… shâ—…uld be punished to make â—…hem examine do but fiâ—…d a way to apply Fâ—…rce to all that have not throughly and impartially examined and you have my Consent For tho Force be not the proper means of promoting Religion yet there is no better way to snew the uselesless of it than the applying it equally to miscarrages in whomsoever sound and not to distinct Parties or Perswasions of Men for the Reformation of them alone when others are equally Faulty Thirdly Because without being for as large a Toleration as the Author proposes you cannot be truely and sincerely for a free and impartial Examination For whoever examines must have the Liberty to judg and follow his Judgment or else you put him upon Examination to no purpose And whether that will not as well lead Men from as to your Church is so much a venture that by your way of Writing 't is evident enough you are loath to hazard it and if you are of the National Church 't is plain your Brethren will not bear with you in the allowance of such a Liberty You must therefore either change your Method and if the want of Examination be that great and dangerous Fault you would have corrected you must equally punish all that are equally guilty of any neglect in this Matter and then take your only means your beloved Force and make the best of it or else you must put off your Mask and confess that you design not your Punishments to bring Men to Examination but to Conformity For the Fallacy you have used is too gross to pass upon this Age. What follows to Page 26. I think I have considered sufficiently already But there you have found out something worth notice In this Page out of abundant Kindness when the Dissenters have their Heads without any cause broken you provide them a Plaister For say you if upon such Examination of the Matter i. e. brought to it by the Magistrates Punishment they chance to find that the Truth does not lie on the Magistrate's side they have gain'd thus much however even by the Magistrate's misapplying his Power that they know better than they did before where the truth does lye Which is as true as if you should say Upon Examination I find such a one is out of the way to York therefore I know better than I did before that I am in the right For neither of you may be in the right This were true indeed if there were but two ways in all a Right and a Wrong But where there be an hundred ways and but one right your knowing upon Examination that that which I take is wrong makes you not know any thing better than before that yours is the right But if that be the best reason you have for it 't is Ninety eight to one still against you that you are in the wrong Besides he that has been punished may have examin'd before and then you are sure he gains nothing However you think you do well to incourage the Magistate in punishing and comfort the Man who has suffer'd unjustly by shewing what he shall gain by it Whereas on the contrary in a Discourse of this Nature where the bounds of Right and Wrong are enquired into and should be established the Magistrate was to be shew'd the bounds of his Authority and warn'd of the injury he did when he misapplies his Power and punish'd any man who deserv'd it not and not be sooth'd into injustice by consideration of gain that might thence accrue to the sufferer Shall we do evil that good may come of it There are a sort of People who are very wary of touching upon the Magistrate's duty and tender of shewing the bounds of his Power and the injustice and ill consequences of his misapplying it at least so long as it is misapply'd in favour of them and their Party I know not whether you are of their number But this I am sure you have the misfortune here to fall into their mistake The Magistrate you confess may in this case misapply his Power and instead of representing to hâ—…m the injustice of it and the account he must give to his Sovereign one day of this great Trust put into his hands for the equal protection of all his Subjects you pretend advantages which the Sufferer may receive from it And so instead of disheartning from you give incouragement to the mischief Which upon your Principle join'd to the natural thirst in man after Arbitrary Power may be carried to all manner of exorbitancy with some pretence of Right For thus stands your System If Force i