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truth_n	church_n	religion_n	true_a	7,548	5	5.1593	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A12213	A reply to an ansvvere, made by a popish adversarie, to the two chapters in the first part of that booke, which is intituled a Friendly advertisement to the pretended Catholickes in Ireland Wherein, those two points; concerning his Majejesties [sic] supremacie, and the religion, established by the lawes and statutes of the kingdome, be further justified and defended against the vaine cavils and exceptions of that adversarie: by Christopher Sibthorp, Knight, one of His Majesties iustices of his Court of Chiefe Place within the same realme.	Sibthorp, Christopher, Sir, d. 1632.	1625 (1625)	STC 22524; ESTC S117400	88,953	134

Religion and the care and observance thereof in their life time will be able to afford But being debarred frō pleading for not taking the oath of Supremacie he saith he was desirous to reade what solide arguments I had made to invest the King with the supremacie finding them as Belshazzar being weighed was found in the Prophecie of Daniel minus habens that is too light Dan. 5.27 he saith he was encouraged to answere them But first how cometh he now to answere any part of my Booke who had said before in the same his Epistle Dedicatory that he presented it to some of the most learned of his catholicke Clergie that none of them after a mature deliberation held it worthy of an answer what will he thinke it worthy of an answere which those of the most learned of his Catholicke clergie thought it not worthy of Secondly if he had weighed my arguments not with false Romish weights but with true divine weights that is in such a ballance as God weighed Belshazzar he would have found them weighty enough though Belshazzar was found light Thirdly little reason hath he to call account those arguments light somewhereof be such as he dares not touch nor medle with thē but doth as childrē use to do who what they cānot reade they skippe over So what he can no way answere he pretermitteth those which he dare be bold to touch doe neverthelesse shew themselves to be of that weight and strength as that he is not able to stirre or move them much lesse to remove them or to lift them up from that ground whereon they rest Himselfe doth what he can to answere them yet distrusting his ovvne Answere as minus habens to use his owne wordes against him that is as being too light weake and insufficient hee promiseth a more satisfying Answere that should afterward come forth from those that have more Lavv and Divinitie then eyther he or I. Yea he saith againe That my Booke shall be shortly answered in my owne straine of Divinitie with the three conditions required by me So that both by this his owne answere as also by that further future promised answere it is verie c●●dent that howsoe●●● in words hee and his partakers would ●●●me to slight any ●●●ke the matter therein contayned ye● revera and indeede they thinke the force and strength of it to be such against both Pope and Poperie as that they can have ●o●● nor quiet in their mindes untill they have made which they w●●never be able to doe a good sufficient and satisfactorie Answere thereunto As for that hee saith that if in steed thereof I had made a solide Compendium of the Law I had gained an applause I would have him know that neyther in this kind of learning nor in any other doe I seeke o● hunt after ostentation vaine-glory popular applause or prayse of men which be the things that Papists in their writings doe too much affect but both in that my former worke in this also the things that I sought still doe seeke after is Gods glory the advancement preferment of his truth religion the due authority true honour belonging to our most gracious most godly Christian Soveraigne which was then K. Iames is now K. Charles his most worthy successor whom God ever blesse protect preserve therewithall the generall publicke benefit both of Church and Common-weale I graunt that my profession and place would have allowed me to have written of points of Law and concerning Civill Iustice and externall Peace But I have rendered the reason in the Epistle Dedicatorie of my former Booke why I medled not with those things Namely because the pretended Catholickes of this Kingdome in those points shewed no refractarinesse or opposition but good conformitie and obedience And that their defect was onely in the two other points viz. Concerning the Kings Supremacie and the Religion whereof therefore there then was still is greatest neede and most urgent occasion to treate Wherefore hee that in such a Case would rather have had a Compendium of the Law then these two most necessarie and most important matters to bee dealt in for the generall good of the kingdome seemeth in my understanding to have made a great dispendium of his wit and judgement Neverthelesse hee proceedeth and saith that because hee cannot commaund the Presse he will imploy his endevours to answere in a Manuscript my first Booke he meaneth the first part of my Booke contayning those two Chapters aforesaid But what necessitie was there for him thus to publish his Answere in a Manuscript which he might have put in Print if he had so pleased For although he could not commaund the Protestants Presse neyther was it fit he should yet the Presse which some say the Papists have of their owne within this kingdome he might have eyther commaunded or intreated or if they have no Presse within this kingdome he might have sent or carried his Answere unto Doway or to Rhemes or to some other place beyond the Seas where it might have beene printed if they had held it worthy the Printing Seeing then that hee might have printed it Why did he rather choose to divulge it in a Manuscript Did he thinke that by that course used he might the more freely speake and write what he listed and that no man would answere or reply unto it though he be never so much touched in it or be the cause therein handled of never so great importance But what reason is there for any man to clayme expect or to be allowed such a priviledge Yea inasmuch as mens hearts may be poysoned and seduced aswell by Manuscripts and written Bookes and Pamphlets as by those that be Printed especially after they be once scattered and dispersed abroad as this his Answere is into diverse mens hands and are withall supposed by the pretended Catholickes for whose sake all that labour is bestowed to contayne nothing but truth I see not but I may bee as bold to reply to his Manuscript in Print the cause also so requiring as he made bold to answere a part of my Printed Booke in a Manuscript And therefore have I here replied unto it partly in respect of my selfe whom it concerneth to justifie and make good the matter contayned in those two Chapters of my former Booke which he oppugneth and partly in respect of himselfe vvho seemeth to be ●●o● suffertus over highly conceited of himselfe Prover 26.5 whom therefore Salomon in his Proverbs adviseth to answere and partly chiefely in respect of the pretended Catholikes of this Nation whom by that meanes he seeketh to seduce abuse in the p●ints both of his Majesties Supremacie the Religion Both which points they being so high and eminent it behooveth all good Christians and all good Subjects evermore carefully dutifully to defend and mantaine As for that godly learned Reverend and worthy

doth not prove it and it is indeede but an humane devise and conceit and such as is before confuted in my former Booke pag. 95.96 97. whereunto he full maketh no answere And yet it is there shewed that the Companie both Militant and Triumphant make but one body and one Church unto CHRIST IESVS whereof he is the Head and that though in his bodily presence and humanitie hee be in heaven yet by his Deitie and power of his Spirit and word he is in Earth with his Church and can tell how to rule governe comfort confirme guide and direct it and to give all giftes and graces requisite and to doe and performe all the offices of an Head unto it much better then the Pope of Rome or any man mortall whosoever Yea himselfe confuteth himselfe when he saith that in these words of CHRIST Reddite quaesunt Caesaris Caesari quaesunt Dei Deo By this word Caesari is understood saith he The Supreme Governor in Temporall affaires and by the word Deo the Supreme Governor in Spirituall affaires For thereupon it followeth that then is not the Pope of Rome the supreme governor in those spirituall and Ecclesiasticall affaires unlesse he will say that the Pope is God But whereas he maketh Caesar or the Emperor to be the supreme Governour in Temporall affayres onely as though he had no Authoritie in spirituall or Ecclesiasticall matters also therein is still his error because it is before most manifestly proved that even the heathen Emperors and much more those that were Christian Emperors lawfully might did cōmand for God his service Religion dealt in matters Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill Temporall Yea Rex est persona mixta as our law also calleth him in respect of that his interest Authoritie in causes both Ecclesiasticall Civill For which cause likewise amongst Divines he is said to bee Custos utriusque Tabulae As for that his calumnious speech against Luther and Calvine which he here also inserteth Luther tom 1. in Genes cap. 9. tom 3. Ann●t in Deut. 6. fol. 40. tom 2. responed Ambr Catherinum fol 150. 152. c. Calvin Inst. l b. 4 cap 20. in Rom 13. c. as though they wrote against the obedience due to Princes and their lawes it hath beene often answered by sundrie Protestants and the untruth of it is so notorious as that the workes and writings of them both doe shew and openly proclayme the contrarie to the world if men would please to read them and not to wrest their wordes but to take them everie where in a right sense But what meaneth he by this that he saith Kings and Princes may more confidently build the safetie of their persons estates upon the loyaltie of their Catholicke subjects then upon any Protestant subjects what are Papists whom he calleth Catholicks more loyall to Protestant Kings and Princes then Protestants Is there any likelihood of trueth in this Or doth he thinke that Protestant Kings and Princes will or can be so perswaded For is it possible that they who for love or affection to the Pope and Popish Religion denie and oppugne the Kings SUPREMACIE and the true Christian RELIGION he professeth and defendeth can be more loyall or better subjects unto him then those that acknowledge his SUPREMACIE RELIGION by his Authoritie established Thankefully and joyfully embracing them both praying unto God for the continuance of them and for all maner of happinesse and prosperitie upon him and his which is the defendor and maintayner of them both amongst us and thinke themselves bound in duetie and conscience so to doe Comparisons they say are odious and therefore I could have wished that he had forborne them neyther needed he to have used them For if wee all both Protestants and Papists bee in all respects and at all times found faithfull true and good Subjects to his Majestie as of right duetie we all ought and as I hope we all shall be I doubt not but it will suffice although we strive not thus to provoke one another by Comparative or Superlative termes But what reason hath he further to call Calvine as he doth the sensuall Libertine of this age who wrote against the libertines and against all licentiousnesse and all manner of ungodlinesse and impietie whatsoever For so his many learned laborious godly and worthy workes doe abundantly testifie and declare to the world Will Papists never cease their malitious and untrue accusations against Luther Calvine Beza and other Protestants 5 The second Text I alledged to prove the Kings Supremacie over all persons Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill within his owne Dominions is taken out of S. Paul in Rom. 13. where S. Paul saith thus Rom. 13.1.2.3.4.5.6 c. Let everie Soule be subject to the higher powers for there is no power but of God and the powers that be be ordained of God Whosoever therefore resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God and they that resist shall receive to themselves condemnation For Magistrates are not to bee feared for good workes but for evill Wilt thou then be without feare of the power Doe well so shalt thou have prayse for the same For he is the Minister of God unto thee for thy good but if you doe evill feare For hee beareth not the Sword in vaine For he is the Minister of God a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evill Wherefore yee must be subject not onely because of wrath but also for conscience sake And for this cause pay yee tribute also For they are Gods Ministers imploying themselves for that very purpose By the higher powers in this Text whereto subjection is required which beare the sword for the punishment of the evill doers and for the prayse of them that doe well is meant 1. Pet. 2.13.14 as S. Peter also hath before shewed those that be Kings Princes and such like Civill and Temporall Magistrates And this is so evident as that though my Adversary doth not yet the Rhemists doe ingeniously confesse Rhem. Annot. in Rom. 13. vers 4. and teach it For That the Apostle meaneth here specially of Temporall powers we may see say they by the sword tribute and externall compulsion he here attributeth to them Neyther was there then as they say any doubt conceaved by Christian men whether they should obey their Spirituall powers or Spirituall Governors yea or no which is another reason they them give to shew that this Text is not to bee expounded of Spirituall Origen in hunc locum but of Civill and temporall Rulers and Magistrates Origen likewise declareth the same affirming them to be Non Antistites Principes Ecclesiarum sed Mundi judices seculi potestates Not Bishops and Prelates of Churches but worldly Iudges and secular Powers In like sort S. Ambrose affirmeth them to be Reges Ambros in hunc locum Aug. de Catech. rudibus cap. 21. seculi

and sophistically but substantially soundly and satisfactorily if he could Thirdly I desired him to doe it as in love and Charitie so also with an affection onely to follow Gods truth and withall to set his name unto it as I had done to that Booke of mine But none of these requests hath this Answerer beene pleased to performe towards me For touching the first he is so farre from answering the whole Booke from the beginning of it to the end that he hath endevoured to answere onely two Chapters thereof namely the two Chapters contayned in the first part of it and no more And whereas secondly I desired a sound sufficient and satisfactory Answere to be made he hath answered even to those two Chapters which himselfe selected to make answere unto very sleightly slenderly and superficially and in no sorte substantially soundly and satisfactory as shall afterward appeare And touching my third request which consisteth of diverse branches let any man judge that hath seene and read his Answere whether it bee made as I desired in a good loving and Charitable manner which would best have beseemed him or in a scoffing and deriding fashion in sundrie places thereof which doth no way become him as also whether hee hath done it with this affection onely to follow Gods truth or with an affection rather to follow and advance mans errors and Constitutions against a manifest divine truth and lastly what reason he had not onely not to set his owne right and true name unto it but in steede thereof to set a false fictitious and counterfeit name calling himselfe Iohn at Stile What Is he ashamed of his owne right name Or doe any use to get credite by putting a wrong name to their worke But this is indeede Dignum patella operculum a false and counterfeite name being fittest most suteable to a false and counterfeite cause which is the thing he maintayneth Howbeit as one desirous to excuse himselfe herein he saith that my requiring of the Answerer to put his name unto the Answere is in effect asmuch as to debarre any man from answering unto it because of the Statute of 2. Elizabeth which doth saith he bind mens tongues and pennes within this Kingdome with the corde of a Praemunire from oppugning the Supremacie eyther by word or writing Whereunto I reply that he that in answering is required to put his name to his answere is so farre from being debarred from answering that cleane contrariewise hee is thereby permitted to answere if hee please so as he put his name thereunto Neyther doth that Statute of 2. Eliz. in this Kingdome inflict the penaltie of a Praemunire for the first offence See the Statute of 2. Eliz. c. 1. in Ireland as he surmiseth but onely losse of goods and Chattels It is indeede after once conviction for the second offence a Praemunire and for the third High Treason If then the penaltie of a Praemunire by that Statute be the thing he feared you see there was no cause for him to feare it hee being never before convicted or attaynted of that offence And is it not strange that he being a Lawyer as he saith he is and one of those as he likewise affirmeth that were debarred from pleading for not taking the Oath of Supremacie should neverthelesse be so ignorant in his owne profession concerning that Statute although himselfe also cite it as not to know what the penaltie is for the first offence therein May not then his owne words be here rightly returned to his owne bosome that seeing in his owne facultie he sheweth no greater skill Can it be imagined that going out of his owne element into the great Citie of Divinitie hee will doe any more then the fish on the shoare to gaspe a little for ayre But admit that for the first offence upon that Statute the penaltie had beene a Praemunire as hee conceived Will he therefore bee so faint-hearted in that his supposed Catholicke cause How doth this agree with that which he saith afterward that an Angell or a Man is bound by the instinct of Nature to love God better then themselves Yea he observeth that in the Naturall bodie of Man the hand will be content to loose it selfe for the preservation of the head and of the rest of the members And that in the Politicke Body of the Common-weale any good Subject will imbrace death for the conservation of his King and the Common-weale and thereupon he concludes that so also should any good Christian member of the Mysticall body of Christ willingly undergo all disasters in the world in attestation of his love to Christ and of his willingnesse to preserve the honour and common good of his Church And this motive saith he in that his Epistle Dedicatorie made him though a Lawyer to interpose himselfe for the defence of the Mysticall Body of Christ and to answere as he hath done in the behalfe thereof Now then doth it become him who seemeth here to be so magnanimous and couragious in his cause to shew himselfe neverthelesse so extreamely timorous as for feare of a Praemunire not to dare to set his right and true name unto that his Answere Yea the premises being well considered what reason hath he to taxe me as sometimes he doth for that being a Lawyer by profession I neverthelesse meddle in these matters of Divinitie and concerning Religion For I gave before as I thinke a sufficient Apologie for these my doings in the Preface of my former Booke which he answereth not nor is able to answere And here I now may and doe further adde that even this Man mine Adversarie hath by his owne example justified me inasmuch as he being likewise a Lawyer as himselfe affirmeth doth neverthelesse as you see by his answering those two Chapters in my Booke meddle in these matters of Divinitie and concerning Religion aswell as I. And not onely his personall example but the doctrine also and reason he delivereth namely that every good member of the Mysticall body of Christ ought to interpose himselfe for the defence of the honour of Christ of his Church serveth very strongly to justifie my doings herein not only as lawfull but as requisite and necessarie and such as in dutie ought not to bee omitted But moreover vvhy doth he Dedicate that his Answere being a worke of Divinitie to his dearest Countrie-men The Lawyers of Ireland if Lawyers had nothing to doe in these matters of Divinitie or if the knowledge of things of that kind did not belong unto them Yea who knoweth not that Lawyers and men of all professions and estates have soules to save and that at the houre of their death it is not their skill or knowledge in Law Physicke or any other their worldly callings professions which serve onely but for this life that can doe them that good or yeeld them that comfort touching the next world eternall happinesse that the knowledge of Divinitie and of Gods true

Emperor Constantius wisheth him as Athanasius testifieth not to meddle in Ecclesiasticall matters It is true that Hosius Cordubensis did and had just cause to reprove Constantius and to wish and advise him not to meddle in matters Ecclesiasticall in such sort as he did he using or rather abusing all his authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall to the mantaynance of the Arrians and arrianisme against the true Christian and Orthodoxe Bishops and against the truth of the God-head of CHRIST For Athanasius in the same Epistle sheweth that Paulinus and other Bishops being called before the Emperor the Emperor commanded them to subscribe against Athanasius Ibidem and to communicate with the Arrians They mervayled at this and answering that the Ecclesiasticall Canons would not suffer them to doe so He replied But what I will let that be taken for a Canon The Bishops of Syria endure this speech of mine Eyther therefore doe you as I will you or else goe you also into banishment And when the Bishops held up their hands to God and proposed their reasons shewing him That the kingdome was not his but Gods of whom he received it that it was to be feared least he that gave it him would speedily take it from him Setting also before his eyes the day of judgement and advising him Not to subvert Ecclesiasticall order nor to bring the Arrian heresie into the Church of God He would neyther heare them nor permitt them to speake but grievously bending his browes for that they had spoken and shaking his Sword at them commanded them to be taken away Yea what crueltie tyrannie and persesecution was used and raysed by Constantius in the behalfe of the Arrians against the Orthodoxe and right beleeving Christians is further declared by the same Athanasius shewing Ibidem that even Pagans were set to invade the Churches of the right and true Christians and to beate the people with slaves and stones The Bishops Priests Monkes were bound with chaines and scourged with r●ds The 〈◊〉 were haled by the haire to the judgement seate The virgins were tosted by the fire and whipt with prickles others were banished strangled and trampled under feete to death and their limmes and joyntes rent and torne a sunder after they were dead In somuch that Athanasius crieth out saying Who was not amazed at these things Who would yeeld them the name of heathen men much lesse the name of Christian men Who would thinke them to have conditions of men and not rather of beasts Yea who perceived not the Arrians to be crueller then beasts The strangers standing by yea the very Ethnickes detested the Arrians as Antichrists and Butchers of men Oh new-found heresie saith he which in villanies and impieties hast put on the fulnesse of the Divell how great soever it be Againe he saith Whom hath not Constantius banished Ibidem that was accused by the Arrians When did he not give them both audience and allowance Whom did he ever admitte to say any thing against them Or what did he not admitte which they spake against others He ever doth that which the Arrians would have and they againe say that which him liketh And Athanasius saith yet further of him That whensoever he called an Assembly Iudgement or Councell of Bishops it was but for a shew For he did neverthelesse what himselfe listed What libertie for persuasion or what place of advise saith he is there when he that contradicteth shall for his labour loose eyther his life or his countrey Why hath the Emperor gathered so great a number of Bishops partly terrified with threats partly inticed with promises to condescend that they will no longer communicate with Athanasius This violent oppressing of Bishops in their Synods or Councells working them to his owne will Hiler lib. 1. contra Constant. doth S. Hilary also witnesse saying thus unto him Thou gatherest Synods or Councells and when they be shut up together in one Citie thou terrifiest them with threats thou pinest them with hunger thou lamest them with cold thou depravest them with dissembling Againe hee saith Ibidem Oh thou wicked one what a mockery dost thou make of the Church Onely dogges returne to their vomite and thou compellest the Priests of CHRIST to suppe up those things which they have spet forth and commandest them in their confessions to allow that which before they condemned What Bishops hand hast thou left innocent What tongue hast not thou forced to falshood Whose heart hast not thou brought to the condemning of his former opinion Thou hast subjected all to thy will yea to thy violence Good cause therefore had Hosius Cordubensis to say as he did unto that Emperor Meddle not Emperor with Ecclesiasticall matters namely in this sort as thou dost for the maintaynance of arrianisme making thy will to stand for a law c. For if you will have these words Ne te misceas Ecclesiasticis Meddle not with Ecclesiasticall matters to be taken absolutely and without restriction to debarre Kings and Princes from all intermedling in Ecclesiasticall causes any kind of way such an exposition were not onely contrarie to the Acts of Constantine the Lawes of Iustinian the Chapters and doings of Charles the Great and the Historie of all the Christian Emperors for the space of many hundred yeares after CHRIST but it were also contrarie to the opinion and practise even of Athanasius himselfe who is the reporter of those words of Hosius For it is evident that Athanasius himselfe was never of that minde to exclude Christian Kings and Princes from all intermedling in causes Ecclesiasticall Yea he was a cleare approver of that Authoritie in them as appeareth by this That when he was commanded to conferre with one Arius concerning matters of Faith He answered Who is so farre out of his wits that he dare refuse the commandement of the Prince Disput Athan. cum A●●o Lao dicea hab●ta Athanas a●●l 2. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 21. 22. lat Yea the Emperors commandement made him to appeare before the Councell of Tyrus and finding that Councell not to be indifferent but partially affected he and the rest of the Orthodoxe Bishops that to●ke part with him appealed to the Emperor himselfe He also in person fled to the Emperor desiring him to send for the Bishops of the Councell of Tyrus and to examine their doings which the Christian Emperor did accordingly So that it is manifest that Athanasius did approve of the Authoritie of the Emperors in Ecclesiasticall causes albeit hee would not have them to use their authoritie cruelly or tyrannically to serve their owne violent wills and pleasures nor thereby to doe any thing whatsoever against CHRIST and his Religion as that Arrian Emperor Constantius did But when all this is granted it maketh nothing against those Christian Emperors Kings and Princes which in good sort use their authoritie not against CHRIST as he did but for CHRIST his trueth and Religion

It is true that the same Hosius Bishop of Corduba spake further unto the Emperor in this sort Athanas ad so●tariam vitam agentes God saith he hath committed the Empyre to thee to us the things of the Church And as he that envieth thy Empyre contradicteth the ordinance of God So take thou heede least drawing unto thy selfe the things of the Church thou be guiltie of great sinne It is written give unto Caesar that which is Caesars and unto God that which is Gods It is therefore neyther lawfull for us that be Bishops to hold a kingdom on earth neyther host thou power ô Prince over sacrifices and sacred things Howbeit these wordes doe onely distinguish and put a difference betweene the office and function of Priests and the office and function of Kings and Princes shewing that the one may not incroch or intrude upon that which r●ghtly and properly belongeth unto the other but that every one should keepe himselfe within the bounds of his owne proper calling office And so teach the Protestants also and therefore if any King or Prince usurpe or intrude upon that which is proper and peculiar unto the Priests office as King Vzziah entred into the Temple to burne Incense 2 Chron. 26.16.17.18 which pertayned to the Priests office onely they utterly dislike and condemne it Now then let all this be granted that Kings and Princes may not doe any thing that is proper and peculiar to the Priests office nor may meddle in Ecclesiasticall causes after a cruell and tyrannicall maner nor use their authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes for the maintenance of Arrianisme or of any other heresie or error nor doe any thing against God or his truth and Religion Yet what doth all this or any of this make against those Godly and Christian Kings and Princes that extend and use their authoritie in Ecclesiasticall causes in a good sort and for God and for the maintenance of his trueth Religion and ordinances It maketh as you see just nothing at all against them But it is further objected that S. Ambrose when Valentinian the Emperor would have had a Church in Millan for the Arrian heretickes answereth thus Neyther is it lawfull for me to yeelde unto it Ambros libr. 5. epist. 3● nor expedient for you ô Emperor to take it The house of a private man you cannot by right invade Doe you thinke then you may take away the house of God It is alledged that the Emperor may doe what he list But I answere burthen not your selfe ô Emperor to thinke that you have any Imperiall right over those things that be Gods Exalt not your selfe so high but if you will raigne long be subject unto God For it is written give unto Caesar that which is Caesars and to God that which is Gods Palaces belong to Emperors Churches to Priests Epist ●● The Church is Gods it ought not to be yeelded by me to Caesar The Temple of God cannot he Caesars right I cannot deliver that to Heretickes which I receaved to keepe on Gods behalfe I would to God Epist 32. it were apparant to me that my Church should not be delivered to the Arrians I would willingly offer my selfe to the judgement of your highnesse I would to God that it were decreed Orat. on● Auxen● that no Arrian should trouble my Churches and of my person pronounce what sentence you will With my consent I will never forgoe my right if I be compelled I have no way to resist I can sorrow I can weepe I can sigh Teares are my weapons Priests have onely these defences By other meanes I neyther ought nor may resist To flie and forsake my Church I use not least any should thinke it done to avoyde some sorer punishment Ibidem Epist 33. If my goods be sought for take them If my bodie I will be readie Will you put mee in Irons or lead mee to death You shall doe me a pleasure I will not guard my selfe with multitudes of people but I will gladly he sacrificed for the Altars of God All this maketh against the favourers and maintayners of Arrianisme but nothing against that authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters which Kings and Princes have to commande for God and for the good of his Church and the advancement of his Religion against Arrianisme and against all other heresies and errors whatsoever My Adversarie therefore objecteth further that S. Ambrose saith Ambros Epist Lib. 5 cont Aux That a good Emperor is within the Church and not above the Church Indeede seeing the Church is the mother of Christian Emperors aswell as of other Christians it becommeth a Christian Emperor as a good Child and Sonne of such a mother to account ●t his greatest honour to submit himselfe as he ought to the word rules and ordinances which God hath set in the same his Church and not to exa●t himselfe aboue them as Valentinian did when he was so forward for the advancement of Arrianisme Arrian assemblies against the true Church of God and the Orthodoxe Bishops therein For that by the Church here S. Ambrose meaneth the things of God in the Church appeareth not only by that Text which he citeth of Give unto Caesar the things that be Caesars and unto God the things that be Gods but by those other words of his likewise where he saith plainely Ambr. lib. 5. c. 33 Ea quae divina sāt imperatoriae potestati non esse subjecta The things that be divine be not subject to the Emperors power And yet the same S. Ambrose affirmeth nevertheles That the Emperor had power over the persons of all men within his Empyre Ambros de obien Theo●osij Here then you must learne of S. Ambrose to distinguish betweene the things in the Church and the persons in the Church For over all the persons he confesseth That the Emperor had power but not over the Divine things therein And this also doe the Protestants hold that a Christian King hath power over the persons of all Bishops Pastors and Ecclesiasticall Ministers in the Church within his owne Dominions But not over the Divine things therein as namely not over Gods Word his Religion Sacraments and other his Institutions and Ordinances in his Church Yet againe it is objected by some that S. Ambrose reproved the Emperor Valentinian the younger for that he would take upon him to be Iudge in a matter of Faith cause Ecclesiasticall but the reason of it must be knowne For Valentinian a young Prince not yet baptized and a novice in the mysteries of Religion would upon the perswasion and counsell of his Mother Iustina an Arrian needes have Ambrose to come and dispute with Auxentius the Arrian in his Palace or Consistorie before him Ambr ● 5. Orat. co●r Auxent Epist. 53. and he would be the Iudge whether of their two Religions were truest Whereunto Ambrose made answere and gave it in writing to Valentinian shewing him amongst