A Gagg for the new GOSPELL NO A NEW GAGG FOR An OLD GOOSE VVho would needes vndertake to stop all PROTESTANTS mouths for euer with 276. places out of their owne English BIBLES OR AN ANSVVERE to a late Abridger of Controuersies and Belyar of the PROTESTANTS Doctrine By Richard Mountagu Published by AVTHORITIE LONDON Printed by Thomas Snodham for Matthew Lownâ—â— and William Barret 1624. To the READER PROTESTANT or Papist English or Romish Catholique Christian if thou be though to all or any I intend what I write yet I will not presse thee â—o peruse the Treatise ensuing for I am indifferent whether thou doe or no. Nor would I haue so much as troubled thy Patience with a Preface it being not tanti which the Gagger hath grated vpon but that being put vpon such a copesmate I was of conueniency to acquaint thee first with three things My vndertaking then my performing and the motiue of the Second his deseruing What moued mee to meddle with this Gagger In what sort I thought fit to arrest him wherefore I haue dealt with him in such sort And first for the first be pleased to know That I coped not with him voluntarily nor thrust my self forward of my own accord out of a desire to be doing I haue other employments of much more behoof to better purpose my greater benefit euery way or if I had none pater aÌ„ has hâ—r as non sic per dere I professe I would neuer be so idle but could more pleasingly and profitably spend my time then in catching or killing of Flyes But be pleased to heare a story Reader which put me on this posture and performing And thus it was About some two yeares since as I remember some of our Catholique Limitors had beene roming and rambling in the Countrey and brake into my pale secretly at my Parish of Standford-Riuers in Essex and according as commonly their custome is that you may know of what companions Saint Paul entended his Leading silly women captiues fell in with some one at least of the subordinate and weaker sexe indeauouring to make Proselytes of my neighbours wiues Now you know their ordinary onsets with great Out-cries of Damned Heretickes out of the Church No Seruice no Sacraments no Ministery no Faith no Christ no Saluation Terrible Shawe-fowles to skarre poore Soules that haue not the facultie of discerning Cheese from Chalk Horrible affrights and mormolyceues to put young children out of their wits that cannot distinguish a visnomie indeed from a visour So it fell out that a neighbour of mine with whom in this sort they had beene tampering became not a little dismayed and perplexed with these bug-beares of great names and thunderings in her eares till it came at length vnto my knowledge what was done I let her know they were but scarr-crowes meere words and wind bragges and boastings and so setled her disquieted thoughts againe But yet it seemeth they left not so The Diuell hath a name Belzebub the God of flyes expressing his nature like a flye insolent importune pressing on though he fall off to day hee will re-enforcce to morrow though he faile to day he will assay to morrow and still hope to preuaile at last So These as He came on againe though euer by owle-light For they came to steale and therefore feared blaunchers I could not come to God-speed nor to confront them But this I did When next you meete with these Romish Rangers commend me to them said I vnto my neighbour Tell them I much desire to bee acquainted with them I was borne bred and brought vp professed in the Religion of the Church of England which I hitherto haue thought to be the truth held and taught as the truth if I haue beene deceiued and haue deceiued others I am sorry for it my desire is to know and professe the Truth to waue heresie to quit error to goe out of schisme to finde out the true Church of Christ and become a member of it and so consequently by all possible meanes to saue my Soule If then their intention be such sincerely as they pretend it is To saue Soules they may doe a meritorious deed to come and saue mine the rather because they may goe compendiously to worke in gaining mee to the side who am like enough to draw you my Parishioners with me at least to make you more seasable then otherwise you would be for them But it seemed canebam sur dis I beleeue if the relation was made as I think it was they gaue no great credit to my words or had lesse hope of their performance For the truth is the most of these Limitors are but poore Ignaroes take them out of their beaten paths they cannot hold pace Wherefore seeing I could not tell where to finde them and they would not finde me where they might haue me I thought to send after them to know their mindes to vnderstand their opinions and see what they would say to winne mee vnto their Catholiqne faith So I tooke pen and paper and wrote as I thought fit three Propositions promising conformity vpon resolution to this effect and I suppose in these tearmes 1 If any Papist lining or all the Papists liuing can proue vnto me that the present Roman Church is eyther the Catholique Church or a sound member of the Catholique Church I will subscribe 2 If any Papist liuing or all the Papists liuing can proue vnto me that the present Church of England is not a true member of the Catholique Church I will subscribe 3 If any Papist c. can proue vnto mee that all those points or any one of those points which the Church of Rome maintaineth against the Church of England were or was the perpetuall Doctrine of the Catholique Church the concluded Doctrine of the representatine Church in any generall Councell or Nationall approued by a Generall or the dogmaticall resolution of any one Father for 500. yeares after Christ I will subscribe And to these seuerally I set my name which I did to try their sufficiencies or abate their insolencies and to settle the wauering vpon those goodly pretenses of Antiquity Vniuersality and Conformity I am sure I come home to them and touch them in their freehold as they claime it I giue them scope enough to insist vpon If they can performe this I will not eate my words I make it now publicke which I then said in priuate let them performe it I will subscribe These three Propositions thus conceiued signed I then deliuered vnto my neighbour the partie that should haue beene proselyted intreating her to deliuer them vnto those her perswaders if they came again as she thought they would This she promised and at their next meeting accordingly performed within few dayes I expected I confesse some great vndertaker and some mighty opposition to purpose in points of that Nature which touched them so neere and came vp to the head of their Catholique cause
the Decisions and Edicts of Popes the inquisitors of Heresie and such like inhibitions to the contrary There are publique Resolutions held of all and priuate opinions maintained by some by men particular in their owne Conceits and Societies in a more generall agreement in things indifferent not de fide or if yet of a looser and lower tye and alloy As those are proposed resolued maintained tendred and commanded So the other are free and disputed and questioned not enioyned as de fide or Subscribed because Problematicall and no more If a man should collect the priuate opinions of priuate men which are differences in Schooles among Schollers nay of the Master of Controuersies or of sentences and impute them vnto the Church of Rome the Faith of Rome this Gagger if hee know what to doe and his gagle would refuse them disclaime them thinke themselues wronged proclaime themselues belied as Bellarmine doth often in the like case Ex aequo bono and more maiorum we may doe the like Yet see the honesty of this Imposter against vs in this his poore pamphlet He hath collected together out of C. W. B. and such companions and disposed as it hapned without order or method xlvii seuerall propositions All pretended errours of the Church of England because all contrary to expresse words of our owne Bibles and repugnant to Antiquity in the Writings of the Fathers so to fasten Noueltie and Heresie and Impietie vpon our Church Of these xlvii onely viii or ix are the Doctrines of our Church 6. 13. 15. 18. 30. 36. 42. 44. and yet not all these as they are by him abused embeasted confounded and circumscribed The rest are partly left at libertie by the Church not determined for doctrines either way Many imposed by him on the Church are directly disclaimed abandoned oppugned by the Church and the flat contrary to them commended and commanded And accordingly belieued practised and maintained against oppugners A maior part are the meere opinions priuate fancies peculiar propositions of priuate men many of them disclaimed by the very Authors some falsely imputed to their Authors some raked together out of the lay-stals of deepest Puritanisme as much opposing the Church of England as the Church of Rome So that whatsoeuer is in this Gagger is or childishly fancied or ridiculously mistaken or wilfully peruerted or slanderously imputed or maliciously proposed or ambiguously conceiued or not iustified any way as may euidently appeare in the particulars in my answere ensuing In which Whatsoeuer is to be owned by the Church as resolued and tendred and subscribed in the authorised Doctrine or Practise thereof is by mee iustified fully against him and shall be maintained against his betters as not contrary to Antiquitie in the Tradition of the Church much lesse vnto Scriptures in our owne Bibles What is inuolued by him malitiously to procure enuy to the side is explicated and asserted to the proper tenents and termes it is shewed how farre the Church of England resolueth where and what things are left free and vndetermined for men to hold with them or against them Priuate opinions are left vnto their Authors and Abettors olde enough and able enough to speake for themselues In a publique cause as is the Faith of Gods Church peculiar interests that I know haue no such share at least ouer-awing as to commaund vndertaking against opponents In answering of whom to come vnto my course obserued with him which I thought fit in conueniency to let the Reader vnderstand for my owne excuse and iustification I haue gone along with him cap apee and point per point first for his Scriptures both expresse and to be seene then for his Fathers that affirme the same that is nothing to purpose as little as his Scriptures did as I could finde them quoted or could guesse at them by imagining where they mought be probably spoken withall or where I could remember to haue some time left them For our Catholiques Romish secure no question of the goodnes of their cause or rather relying vpon the tractablenesse of their patient Proselytes so they can make a dumbe shew with scoring vp Fathers doe not much trouble themselues with caring where or what they say So this Gagger stood affected it is more than apparant For I was often left to goe blowe the seeke for his Fathers For poore man he tooke them vp as hee could finde them by tale without weight or triall Some few peraduenture in the country abroad but the maior part by farre out of C. W. B. What he is I cannot tell and as hee hath them truely or falsly quoted rightly registred or mistaken so in euery poynt are they in the Gagge vnlesse worse Such supine negligence secure discoursing childish disputing in such a Master in Israel Such infant-like performance in such a Goliah vpon whose head the Philistines haue set vp their rest I speake no more in effect than I haue heard of him since I vndertooke him who can beare Beside the scurrilous fellow according to his breeding and education it seemeth sure I am fitting enough his disposition commeth in with Coblers and Bakers and Tinkers and Tapsters and Hosts and Hostesses and bottles and bottle-ale Insulteth vpon poore Protestants Out of their wits sicke in their wits Prateth of Horses and Asses praying and such like stuffe out of his Coblersshop or Hostesses ale-bench no doubt And who is able to possesse his Soule or containe his pen in patience that hath to doe with such Impostors Mountebankes and Buffones such rake-shames and rakehels as these ramblers are I confesse that subiects of this nature should aboue all be moderately calmely and quietly handled but so if wee meete with moderate men with quiet men with temperate honest and discreet men with men not proiected prostituted and giuen ouer vnto lying calumniating traducing of all that concurre not with them as this companion and his comerades are who haue no intent to make vp any ruines or decayed places in the Church to heale the sores cure the wounds mollifie the swellings cleanse out the empostumations in the mysticall body of Christ that ayme not at peace nor would procure vnity nor any way indeauour that those who professe Gods holy name may agree in the truth of his holy word and liue in vnity and godly loue but make their 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 their whole indeauour their speciall study day and night by all kinde of iniquity to keepe a faction on foot and maintaine opposition euen where it needeth not Such are to be curryed in their kinde and to be rubbed as they deserue in no case to be smoothed or sleeked ouer lest they please themselues too well in their impiety It was euer held lawfull to call a spade a spade Saint Paul gaue not Elimas any gentle termes nor did Saint Peter speake butter and hony vnto Simon Magus Our Sauiour himselfe that man of meekenesse called Herod a Fox and Iudas a Deuil when they deserued it
Catholike Reader to 1614. 1616 or any other yeare as well as 1619. by Robert Barker But admit there had beene amongst vt twenty seuerall Translations as you belye vs so long as authority gaue not countenance vnto them what can we be taxed for more then the Church of Rome may not so much as the ancient Catholike Church might For beside eight or nine seuerall translations into the Greeke tongue Saint Augustine is punctuall Lib. 2. cap. 11. de doct Christ that the seuerall Latine Translations in his time could not be numbred and Hierome in his preface vpon Iosua saith there were Tot exemplaria quod codices as many Translations as Copies Which variety he misliked but S. Augustine doth well like And in the Church of Rome at this day are moe seuerall Translations extant of the Scriptures into Latine then are in England into English beside the corrections of the Lovanists of Sixtus 5. and Clemens Octavus contrary repugnant to one the other Besides the infinite variety of the vulgar Edition not one copy almost like vnto another It cannot be obiected with such good reason vnto vs what edition doe you follow as it may be vnto you with reproofe enough Doe you follow Sixtus or Clemens in your quotations For we affixâ— no infallibility vnto any Translator as you doe to their Holinesse that haue thwarted and crossed shins with one the other And if you tye your men in publique passages vnto your authorized Edition so doe we our men in publike Liturgies in like sort Iam sumus ergo pares And you may turne your finger home vpon your selfe before you point it out to vs so that wee Papists haue not all one sort of Bible One or many if it had beene so materiall or so necessary for the Curteous Catholike Reader to know which Edition it was you followed but that you are meerely a vaine man the inscription might haue told vs which you followed without any great adoe or incumbring of the Page thus After English Bibles you might haue added in quarto by Robert Barker 1615. and not made so much adoe about plaine nothing but then you could not haue had this fling at so necessary a Point the great variety of our translations and such an opportunity was not to bee slipped for giuing the Protestants a wipe with a meere lye of the multiplicity of Bibles differing one from another Seconded with another of like nature For know for certaine Reader whatsoeuer thou art there is no such faithfulnesse in these citations as this man pretendeth For neither are all citations word for word expressed in the Gagger according to our Bibles of any Translation but sometime the sense onely sometime not that and sometime expresse consequence and no more Contrary to promise and vndertaking euen so when the sense is not differing from the supposall For by promise he was bound vnto expresse and direct words And yet pardon him this false asseueration that they are not so written as he pretended not in that Edition of Robert Barker As for instance Luc. 24. 27. 8. 13. Math. 9. 3. 3. 8. and 3. 5. 6. and 19. 12. Act. 15. 14 15. 1 Cor. 14. 32. 2 Cor. 11. 2. and 2 Cor. 5. 10. Philip. 2. 30. Esay 49. 21. And haply other places beside these This is the first point Reader to serue thee for thy profit and togather fruit thereout A second is touching the splendour of Truth which indeed is admirable and attractiue Falshood and fraud are corner-creepers but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Truth is euer with a cheerefull countenance and as the verticall sunne at noone which hauing dispelled both the darknesse of the night and fogges of the day shineth forth in brightest glory But there are shadowes as well as substances et notâ maior imago most an end in course of kind the shadow is of greater aspect then the substance Truth is appearing as well as Being The diuell will seeme an Angell of light Not the veriest Theese that euer tooke purse but will say of his fellow and sweare for himself we are honest men Change but the tearmes the case is yours Sir Gagger The truth is your owne is it not Oh take it as granted though nothing more questioned or so questionable yet the Truth is onyour side there is no â—ay You may speake it boldly and stand to it stoutly to your Catholike Readers For if you want Knights of the post themselues will supply the place and sweare it That notwithstanding the Protestant Ministers haue endeauoured to obserue you would say obscure the same by so many varieties of translations and by such an infinite number of corruptions and falsifications yet neuerthelesse their condemnation is so expresly set downe in their own Bible and is so cleare to al the world that nothing more needs hereto but only that thou know to reade and to haue thine eyes in thy head at the opening of this their booke Euen as you put the words into their mouths as a witnesse at large in case of Tithes once did sweare in my owne hearing he knew the place Tithable for 300. yeares and yet was aged but 99. yeares This man spake with a good will to the cause So will your Catholikes if you aske them touching Protestant Ministers their Translations Corruptions and Falsifications beleeue you forestall you protest and sweare for you accordingly Can you desire greater Curtesie then so Some variety of Translation betwixt ours and yours your selfe haue taken the paines to obserue in these Propositions 7. 14. 15. twice 25. 29. 38. 46. and happily some others Are these Corruptions or Falsifications of the text you charge them not so you cannot you dare not doe Variety of Translations for all your enlarging there are not many As many or moe in the Church of Rome If so not authorised you will say Why no more are ours The Councel of Trent hath authorised yours and the Church of England representatiue ours Neither one nor other this or that for Authenticall variety of Translation there may be some if this make Corruptions or Falsifications your Authenticall Latine is in a poore case or rather a shop of Corruptions to depraue and obscure the splendour of Truth which is such and so passing bright notwithstanding that it shineth forth aboue and against them all For if a man can but reade and haue his eyes in his head at the very opening of the booke he shall finde your Bibles infinitely full of such varieties which no man will deny per aduenture not your selfe who yet may claime to weare a Liuery as one of Belzebubs attendants in this kind And for Corruptions and Falsifications if they be so infinite and so cleere it had beene honesty to haue named halfe a score halfe a dozen one at least to haue acquitted your toung of Lying and slandering as it is Calumnia est non accusatio There are quoted by you in your Abridgement 276 seuerall places
of Scripture or thereabout It seemeth strange vnto me that not one of these should fall foule vpon that infinite number of corruptions and falsifications which you talke so freely and loudly of vnto your Catholike Reader Had there beene any such thing to be discouered your charity wee know is no way so Transcendent as to conceale it wee should haue heard thereof on both eares to a purpose He can doe little that can not belye his aduersary in grosse though put him to proofe and he prooueth recreant Do this I challenge your Gagship if you can or dare or prooue your selfe a Gagler and a Goose for euer For variety of reading deprauation corruption falsification here I offer to charge and prooue your most Sacrosanct Authenticall edition of Trent in the best and most corrected copy you can choose is as guilty of at and euery one of these particulars as you or your betters can proue our Bibles to be When you will or when you dare vndertaken it shall be And this in my mind is but a cold comfort vnto a Catholike who opineth poore deceiued soule that hee may be secure and build his saluation vpon the facing impudency of euery light-skirt mountebanck and shaued emposter You do well to seale vp the truth and vprightnesse of this forlorne cause of yours with security and assurance that is to captiuate their vnderstanding with implicite faith For you know and I can make it good that let the Truth you talke of come to scanning Lucians true History will be as warrantable It is true I deny not our translations all and singular and so your owne done by your owne men differ both amongst themselues as also from the Authenticall Latin as you call it notoriously your Authenticall Latin differeth from it selfe Is this to the disparagement darkning and obscuring of the Catholike verity Looke you to that I can rid my hands of it well enough and cleere both our Church aâ—d Bibles of all such imputation or impeachment of Catholike verity any way If it bring such disparagement the reason is in my conceit you swarued euen from the Councell of Trent which neuer intended such a royal prerogatiue vnto your Latin edition as the Iesuits and Iesuited faction giue vnto it I speake not this to disparage it I professe I respect it as much as any Translation extant and to quite your kindnesse in being content to be tryed by our Bibles I will be tryed in any point the Church of England maintaineth this day against the Church of Rome by no other but your owne Authenticall Latin Eate your words Goodman Gagger I am your aduersary I professe my selfe I will and dare offer my selfe to giue what aduantage you can make thereof to be tryed by your owne Translation and to deserue your loue the more may happily ere long Gagge your mouth in this very kind of putting you to it with your owne translation In the interim put mee to it when you please I will not waue your so Authenticall Latin in maintaining the assertions of our Church And so much for your second point of aduice vnto your Reader Thirdly you aduise him somewhat farther off for generall affronting the Protestant in any point whatsoeuer as I can conceiue it in briefe thus The manner of the Protestant is in conference of controuerted points when he is vrged with text of Scripture plaine and euidens to beate backe the argument or as you phrase the thing to Counterpoint it with some other text of Scripture For instance when you bring those euident few words This is my body they vse to rebutt it with Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speake vnto you they are spirit and they are life and by this allegation suppose they haue put by the point of your weapon or giuen you a great ouerthrow as you speake In such a case your aduice is to shew the party amiably that this is not to proceede by order and that he dealeth not with thee as he ought nor sincerely in opposing a passage darke and obscure to confound a passage that is most cleere A man may take good counsell of his enemy though against his will and so haue no cause to thanke him for it Sir Gagger of your selfe and your owne gagle this aduice we meane to make vse of and put it home to your selues as we haue occasion frequent enough I know no men guilty of this blameable carriage at least so guilty as your selues be I haue rubbed your memory with it sometime as it fell out But here hauing so iust cause you can not blame me if I gagge you with your owne gagge Misticall passages are not argumentatiue What so mysticall as the Reuelation In which are tot Sacramenta as many darke passages as there by words And yet we want not proofes of plainer particulars from mysticall signing in the forehead The number of the beast Power giuen to the Saints ouer nations What more absurd then to prooue ordinary oeconomy in Gods disposition by extraordinary dispensation This you haue done out of Math. 17. 3. Math. 27. 52. or points of faith as you would haue them out of a dreame 2 Mac. 15. 12. Prayer vnto Saints is defined in your Creed Your proofes for that against euident scripture Psal 51. 15. are Luk. 16. 24. Iob 5. 1. Without Purgatory Popery cannot stand The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 two pillars of Purgatory are those two places of S. Paul 1 Cor. 3. 13. 1 Cor. 5. 29. then which there are not two more obscure places in all the scripture Adde to them a third though of a baser alloy that intricate and depraued place of 2. Mach. 12. 44. I could goe further and gagge you Doper out of your owne practise Who if you had not so much honesty as to forbeare belying of your opposites should haue had so much discretion as not to obiect that vnto another which had you that good signe of a bad cause in you Blushing might ashame you being by recrimination retorted vpon your selfe I say belye for it is not better nor worse but euen so For Transubstantiation that monster of monsters you haue neuer done with This is my body Which we deny not either in words or sense The very body of Christ really receiued in the Sacrament of the Altar is warranted by those formall words of Institution This is my body but not per modum Con or Trans or any other like It is not said This is my body corporally eaten orally there carnally conceiued of grossely This cannot be say the Protestants and for proofe thereof that the thing being granted the manner cannot be so conceiued proceedeth thus That which one Scripture proposeth cannot bee contraried by another But this carnall sense of those words This is my body is contraried by another an instance In Iohn 6. 63. The flesh profiteth nothing as plaine a text against carnall eating of Christs flesh as can
what meane you by them of whom where when vpon what grounds why a rambling logodiarrhe without wit or reason Edicta Principum Decreta Synodorum And iudicia pro tribunali are of large extent of different alotment For against God Equity Truth and Honesty what an idle discourse is it thus to shoote your bolts as boyes doe stones to make Duckes and Drakes vpon the surface of the water to glide smoothly for two or three grasings and then sinke to the bottome without any more adoe Adde quantity to iudgements Decrees Edicts wee shall know what you would say and so answere As for humane wisedome that helpe on our right hand haue you such cause to boast we haue no sense nor reason I thinke you doe not find vs such arrant fooles as vtterly destitute of humane indowments If you doe the better for you You may cary the cause against vs without more adoe Customes we haue many of the better sort not all your anticke fits and gesticulations You haue not all antiquity had you haue many they neuer saw Silly man know you not most customes doe and may vary keepe your owne if you please we are not so wedded to them nor to all ours but vpon reason we haue will and may change by better warrant then you can auoide As for multitude we dare drip Siders with you old and late but these are meere flashes of your Catholike vanity I haue said it often I repeate it in the close that you may remember it the better at least you shall find that is my selfe that will ioyne issue with you when you dare to maintaine the doctrine of the Church of England and oppose the doctrine of the Romish Church by all of these or any of these Antiquitie Custome Multitude humane wisedome Iudgements Decrees Edicts and Councels If I haue not for me in all or euery one as good and better share and interest for my confession theÌ„ you for yours I wil yeeld As for Miracles Visions and such hobgoblin-stuffe I am contented you appropriate to your owne So did the Gentiles brag of the like as Chrysostome obserueth Orat. 1. in Iudai santes pag. 34. Edit Hesheâ— So did the Donatists as S. Augustine reporteth de notis Ecclesiae ca. 19. Their miracles were then as yours now Figmenta mendacium hominum aut portenta fallacium spirituum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a prouerbiall speech in Athenaeus Fooles may be frighted with Hagges and Fairies men of vnderstanding know it is but knauery At Lauretto Sichem Annuntiada or wheresoeuer we haue the like puppet playes amongst our Catholike neighbours Cachinnantibus daemonijs at such iugling tricks for their aduantage And yet take me not so as if I cast off all miracles I admit I admire them that were true for a true end the ratificatiou of Truth vnto the soule 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That such as would not yeeld vnto the word preached might yet be conuicted by that miraculous power saith Clemens in his Constituions This was that the world might beleeue but yet since and euer Chrysostome said true 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 One faith and beleefe is to be regulated not by miracles but by the Scripture which on good foundation we defend containes all that is Necessary for our saluation You haue done with your Reader and I with you till we meet againe at the next turne till then farewell A list of the seuerall errors imputed to the PROTESTANTS by this Gagger being so many Lyes I. THey maintaine in the first place that the Scriptures are easie to be vnderstood II. That in matters of Faith wee must not relye vpon the iudgement of the Church and of her Pastors but onely vpon the written Word III. That Apostolicall Traditions and ancient Customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige vs. IIII. That the Church can erre V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publike seruice of the Church to be in a Tongue not vnderstood by all the Assistants VII That Saint Peter was not the first or chiefe among the Apostles and that none was greater or lesse among the twelue VIII That Saint Peters faith hath failed IX That a Woman may bee supreame Gouernesse of the Church in all causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall as Queene Elizabeth was X. That Antichrist shall not be a particular man and that the Pope is Antichrist XI That none but God can forgiue or retaine sinnes XII That we must not confesse our sinnes but onely to God XIII That Pardons and Indulgences were not in vse in the Apostles times XIIII That the Actions and Passions of the Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church XV. That no man can doe workes of Supererâ—gation XVI That by the fall of Adam we haue all lost our free-will and that it is not in our owne power either to choose good or eâ—ill XVII That it is impossible to keepe the Commandements of GOD though assisted with his Grace and the holy Ghost XVIII That onely Faith iustifieth and that good workes are not absolutely necessary to Saluation XIX That no good workes are meritorious XX. That Faith once had cannot be lost XXI That God by his will and ineuitable decree hath ordained from all eternity who shall be damned and who saued XXII That euery man ought infallibly to assure himselfe of his saluation and to hold that hee is of the 〈◊〉 her of the praedestinate XXIII That euery one hath not his Angell keeper XXIIII That the holy Angels pray not for vs. XXV That we may not pray vnto them XXVI That the Angels cannot helpe us XXVII That no Saint departed hath afterward appeared to any vpon Earth XXVIII That Saints deceased know not what passeth in the Earth XXIX That they pray not for vs. XXX That we may not pray to them XXXI That the bones or reliques of Saints are not to be kept no vertue proceedeth from them after they be dead XXXII That Creatures cannot be sanctified or made more holy then they are already by their owne Nature XXXIII That Children may bee saued by their Parents faith without Baptisme XXXIV That imposition of hands vpon the people called by Catholikes Confirmation is not necessary nor to be vsed XXXV That the bread of the Supper is but a figure of the body of Christ not his body XXXVI That wee ought to receiue vnder both kindes and that one alone sufficeth not XXXVII That sacramentall vnction is not to bee vsed to the Sicke XXXVIII That no interior grace is giuen by the imposition of hands in the Sacrament of holy Orders XXXIX That Priests and other religious persons or any others who haue vowed their chastity vnto God may freely marry notwithstanding their vowes XL. That fasting and abstinence from meates is not grounded on holy Scripture nor causeth any spirituall good XLI That Iesus Christ descended not into hell nor deliuered thence the Soules of
then heare them not Verba legis proferendo in the opinion of Saint Augustine so long as they speake Law This is not our Heresie but Catholique Doctrine De legis ac Mosis doctrinâ loquitur perindè enim est acsi dicat Omnia quae Lex Moyses vobis dixerint Scribis Pharisaeis recitantibus seruate saith Maldonate no friend nor fauourer of Protestants And after him Barradas another Iesuite in this resolution a very Protestant Hoc est saith he omnia quae legi Dei mandatis non repugnāt Ergo bound in the text with this restriction as you must and it is a plaine Gagge to the Gospel Luke 10. 16. He that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me and hee that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me Therfore c. You know not what you say All this we constantly beleeue But first I answere this is a text indeede to purpose to vindicate authority to the Church and her Pastors but not expressely which is your vndertaking by necessary consequence and indenied it is but you haue tied your selfe foole as you were vnto expresse words and expresse words are not here extant Secondly perhaps it is not so pat as you imagine because the men intended there and then were of another making fashion and account than euer were any since or before and therefore their priuiledges more peculiar of greater extent insomuch as that all were not to be heard so respectiuely as they were they without Scripture or allegation of Scripture hauing mission immediate from the Sonne himselfe which none euer had but they But thirdly I answere take it with Saint Cyprian Epist 96. and others in a larger extent ad omnes praepositos qui Apostolis vicariâ ordinatione succedunt vnto the Gouernours in the Church who succeede the Apostles in the Churches gouernement by imposition of hands and ordination and goe and answere your selfe out of Saint Bernard thus Be the commandement tendred by God or man as Gods agent it is to be receiued with like reuerence Vbi tamen Deo contraria non praecipit homo As farre as man doth not gain-say the will and commandement of the most high A flat Protestant in his assertion and vpon reason For a Nuntio must goe to his Commission Matth. 16. 19. I will giue vnto thee the Keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen whatsoeuer thou shalt loose in earth shall be loosed in heauen Which text hath no such mention of relying vpon Church or Pastors in matters of faith expressed Nor hitherto perhaps any such meaning Your Compeeres were wont to cry vs downe with this text For Saint Peters iurisdiction ouer all and the Popes vniuersall power in claue potestatis You now waue that power it seemeth and cast aside that key and lay hold vpon that other key of knowledge Shall wee belieue your Puniship or them This cannot be good Catholique vnitie in so fundamentall a poynt of your Faith except for neere alliance betwixt Saint Peter and his Spouse the Church whatsouer is remembred of the one must be likewise true of the other But out with your Table-bookes you that haue them amongst you and Note the man will giue you something worth the noting that is our Sauiour doth not say whomsoeuer but whatsoeuer We take it and note it and meane to make good vse of it inferring thereupon through your owne confession that therefore St. Peter by Christs commission must in case of binding and loosing and executing the power of the Keyes which whether it be all one with binding and losing you are not agreed amongst your selues let whomsoeuer alone for euer and betake himselfe vnto whatsoeuer that is not meddle any more with Kings and Princes with cantoning of their Kingdomes and estates but content himselfe with whatsoeuer matters of fact inferiour matters of Faith and the like decisions at least with Causes and Persons within his owne Verge indeede Causes that is knots and difficulties for Persons are none of that combination So to shake hands with your memorable obseruation Therefore in matters of faith euen by their owne Bible wee must not relye vpon the written word onely but vpon whatsoeuer Saint Peter shall tie or vntie which we in this case are contented to doe and to say with that Councell of which he was a part you say President visum est spiritui sancto nobis the decision of the Catholique Church wee receiue as the dictate of the holy Spirit but be you sure it is the iudgment of the Church for you are good Proficients in equiuocation and present vs the Church vpon no better termes then if you should tender vs a man of straw for a perfect man or a shadow for a substance Indeede to this effect that is to as little purpose as that which went before In cases of controuersies and of doubts in matters of fact or ciuill cognisance which could not be determined by ordinary course of Law in the seuerall Counties as it were or Places of iudicature the Parties plaintife and defendants were to referre it to the Leuits Priests and Iudge in these daies that is to the Church and to the Pope you dreame and let your dreame goe once for truth and they must heare it determine it definitiuely It was capitall to refuse or to appeale Good but yet this commeth not home for they must determine it according vnto Law to which supreamest decision both concurre the Rule of right and determiner of right according to that rule In our construction to our present question the iudgement of the Church according vnto Scripture the selfe-same that the Protestant maintaineth In this text I graunt more is to be seene then in all the rest viz. when the word of the Lord came vnto Agge the Prophet Which thing how it sorteth with the present position I cannot tell speake those that can But the word that then came vnto him was this in the 12. verse Aske the Priests concerning the Lawe And the Priests answered according vnto Law thus and thus And this is resoluing of a doubt by the Priests but the doubt resolued according vnto Law so the written word is relyed vpon Not I my selfe the word onely Quis enim respondet Did euer any man deny that the Church and her Pastors are not to be heard speaking out of or else according vnto Scriptures Shew this and take it else Nihil ad rhombum That of 2 Chron. 19. 8. is all one with Deuter. 17. 8. an exemplification of that rule a practice according vnto that direction there somewhat more For hereby it appeareth that the Precept was not for Tell the Church and heare her Pastors but goe take the ordinary course appointed the iudgement of a standing court mixt of Clergie and of the Laitie as it were our court of high Commission or indeede the Starre-chamber consisting of both robes
Ecclesiasticall and ciuill not any thing to purpose for Church or for her Pastors propounded The last out of 2 Thessal 2. 15. was wont to passe currant for vnwritten verities now it commeth in limping for Church and Pastors resolue where it shall stand and then we will ranke it in degree and desert So I would could I tell where to finde them they walke in tenebris I cannot speake with them by cleare day-light In briefe what they affirme I professe I cannot tell I know many things which they affirme in those remembred bookes and passages but what the man here meaneth I can but guesse at so dissolute and at randome are his quotations as if to name and muster vp some Fathers were enough as I can coniecture so come I to them if I misse I must haue better information hereafter Gregorie Nazianz. in Oratione excusat saith somewhat I resolue of and to some purpose but what I certainely doe not know nor yet which Oration is by him intended For I finde not any vnder that title in Billius whom these men follow vnlesse it be one of his Apologies In the former of which two I finde somewhat that may looke that way this In Ecclesijs constituit vt alij pascantur pareant quibus videlicet id conducit ac cum sermone tum opere ad officium diriguntur alij autem ad Ecclesiae perfectionem Pastores ac magistri sunt qui virtute coniunctioneque ac apud Deum familiaritate vulgo sublimiores sunt rationem animae ad corpus aut mentis ad animam obtinentes A thing reasonable profitable and of absolute necessitie for the being of a Church to haue a distinction of Pastors and People some to teach some to be taught to leade to be led to rule to obey a thing established practised and defended in England no otherwise then was in the Primitiue Church and is in the Church of Rome at this day Vnlesse wee can see more shewed vs in Gregory Nazianzene we haue seene but little vnto any purpose yet and other thing then this I know not Tertullian next to be seene against Heretickes prescribeth the rule of Faith so doe we appealeth to the first institution of the Catholicke Church of Christ in his Apostles and to their Doctrine then taught and deliuered and so doe wee aboue all primerily thereto he descendeth vnto Succession so will we Not any prescription insisted vpon by Tertullian but I embrace it and dare appeale vnto it and stand to the award thereof Ex fide personas approbantes non ex personis fidem Is this that which he would haue with Tertul. out of Chapter 21. What Christ reuealed vnto his Apostles to be preached I will prescribe that it ought to be proued no otherwise then by testimony of those Churches which were first founded by the Apostles in their preaching partly by word of mouth and partly afterward by writing If this be the place of Tertullian meant by the Gagger then Currat a Gods name we accept the Condition and ioyne issue and come on with Tertullian as it insueth Si haec ita sunt If this be so it must needs be that all Doctrine which concordeth with those Apostolicall mother and originall Churches is true as being that selfe-same which the Churches receiued from the Apostles they from Christ Christ from God Whatsoeuer other Doctrine is beside this is false against the truth of the Apostles Christ and God Thus he thus we I desire no other Iudge or better triall ioyne issue when you will or when you dare I accept the Condition for any point controuerted betwixt the Church of England and Rome at this day for 500. yeeres after Christ at least Discipulus magistrum Cyprian commeth next to be seene in his 55. Epistle or as your Authors suggest it Lib. 1. Epist 3. In which Epistle I cou'd pitch vpon places moe then one that happily you may entend for they looke this way but that which is purposed I suppose is this in the second sect Actum est de Episcopatus vigore de Ecclesiae gubernandae sublimi ac divinâ potestate The rather because the Texts of Scripture here cited are by Pamelius the Roman Scholiast there applyed though to no purpose For it is the receiued Doctrine of the Church of England that in the office of a Bishop there should be that vigor as he calleth it and that the Calling it selfe is Diuine and an high calling Nor doth any Papist liuing more respect and approue that saying of Saint Cyprian in the same Epistle Sect. 19. then our Church of England doth Non est ad hoc deponenda Catholicae Ecclesiae dignitas c. The honor and the dignity of the Catholick Church is not to be abased so farre nor the vnspotted maiesty of the Flocke of Christ or Priestlike power and authority to be so deiected that men consisting out of the Church should dare professe they will passe censure vpon a Bishop of the Church That Heretickes should presume to censure Christians wounded men iudge the sound lapsed men those that neuer fell guilty persons iudge the Iudge Impious Sacrilegists the Priests This you approue so doe we To what end doe you will vs see Saint Cyprian Or Saint Augustine against Cresconius the Donatist if yet wee could tell where in speciall and what to see is this that which you meane Cap. 33. We vphold the truth of Scripture when we doe that which the vniversall Church commandeth recommended by authority of the Scriptures so farre as that because the Scripture cannot deceiue a man that would not willingly erre in this question obscure should goe and enquire what the Church saith of it If this be the place as in all likelihood it is we subscribe vnto it with all our hearts For in Diuinity Questions Controuersi Iuris there must bee a Iudge to determine that wee say is the Church whether part contending hath Law right that is consent of Scripture vpon his side and we professe with the same Saint August in his 118. Disputare contra id quod vniuersa Ecclesià sentit insolentissimae est insaniae A most in solent franticke foole were he that would dispute against the tenent of the vniuersall Church Sir bring vs to the triall and gagge vs if you can with this resolution of Saint Augustine belye vs not for our opinions against your knowledge But all this while wee haue seene in the Fathers what wee could finde or imagine yet wee neuer saw cleerely till the close Drinke was your arrand but draffe would you haue your plea hath beene for the Church and Pastors your intent was meerely for the Pope for so Saint Anselme Lib. de Incarnat cap. 1. written vnto Pope Vrban saith vnto him Vnto no other is more rightly referred to be corrected whatsoeuer ariseth in the Church against the Catholicke Faith What is this saying of S. Anselme vnto vs in matters of faith
Traditions Act. 16. 4. this is one Act. 15. 29. To abstaine from bloud and strangled Exempt such dishes specified from such dressing haue with you to Masse to Mr. Mayes as I am inuited by Sir A. P◠peraduenture your selfe 2 Tim. 1. 13. We finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the forme of wholesome words in our Bibles And if this be Traditions vnwritten iudge you good Catholiques and set not so high a price vpon this arrant blunderer then whom a verier Goose neuer handled Goose-quill And so goe see if your leasure will serue Fathers that affirme somewhat not what they should The first you must see if you please is Irenaeus Lib. 3. cap. 4. for he will not trouble your seeing with Clemens Ignatius Dionysius Areopagita Polycarpus Egesippus Iustinus Martyr all elder than Irenaeus and vaunted of by his good masters and no doubt as much to poynt as Irenaeus who yet is held to be resolute and irrefrageable in that place Propter quod oportet deuitare quidem illos quae autem sunt Ecclesiae cum summâ diligentia deligere apprehendere veritatis Traditionem For which cause wee must shun and eschew them but with all possible diligence make choyce of the things belonging to the Church and lay hold vpon the Tradition of truth Which Tradition is no other thing but the rule of our faith The holy Scripture nothing vnwritten vncertaine beside much lesse against Scripture This is somewhat in your opinion but that which is the thing intended indeede is this which followeth in Irenaeus Et si quibus de aliquâ modicâ quaestione disceptatio esset nonne oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere Ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab ijs de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum re liquidum est Thus hee questioneth I answere affirmatiuely yes No doubt we ought for resolution in poynts of doubtfull controuersie relye vpon that decision of the eldest Churches Doe we refuse this triall good Sir Gagger Where you will in what poynt you will I vndertake thus to iustifie the Church of England name you the Controuersie one or moe and maintaine the contrary if you can or dare The question is not with Irenaeus what must be Law but how the Law is to be expounded and interpreted Scripture the Law and Tradition the Interpretation that is the perpetuall praxis of the Church to expound the doubtfull texts of Scripture But Irenaeus proceedeth farther than so it will be said For What if the Apostles had left vs no writing at all Nonne oportet ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt ijs quibus committebant Ecclesias Farther indeede but to no purpose this is vpon supposition If it had been so which is not so nor could be so Secondly it followeth not that because if God had not giuen Israei a Law it is probable hee would haue continued his former course with Abraham Isaac and the Patriarchs therefore when he had giuen them his Law they were still to looke for immediate or Angelicall Reuelations as before No more is it consequent to reason pietie or Irenaeus intent that albeit if no Scripture had beene written onely Tradition must haue beene followed therefore Scripture being written wee should as otherwise addresse our selues vnto Tradition But thirdly wee come home to poynt Shew vs any thing tendred by those Ecclesiae antiquissimae to be belieued and obserued and see if wee respect it not as well and as much as you Till you shew vs such Traditions leaue your prating idlely at randome touching worth and weight and vse and authoritie of Traditions Your Traditions tendred in these dayes are onely in name as Simon Magus was and Simon Peter the same no more of credite than hee of pietie both alike Origen is next to be seene in cap. 6. ad Roman Hee calleth Baptisme of Infants a Tradition and let it be so It is the vniuersall iudgement and most ancient practise of the Catholique Church deduced at least from Scripture if not proued in Scripture as the controuersor himselfe confesseth Be it a Tradition it is more for our aduantage than otherwise For we admit receiue defend and practise it which must needes giue the lye vnto your proposition That according to the Doctrine of the Protestants Apostolicall traditions ancient customes of the holy Church are not to be receiued nor doe oblige For the World knoweth your brazen face will blush to deny it wee receiue it practise it are obliged by it S. Damascen may stand by vnlesse you meane to make your friends with him a childe in yeares of yesterdayes birth in respect of those old Heroes of the Primitiue times Not that he saith any thing Lib. 4. cap. 17. more than an other or more effectuall and to purpose but because he is not of that desert or esteeme to be ranked with the Fathers of the Primitiue times being long post natus and a Partian many wayes for which cause I answere him not S. Chrysostome is peremptory and through for Traditions In 2. ad Thessal 2. vers 16. he saith Hence it is plaine and apparant that the Apostles deliuered not all in writing but very many things without booke Thus hee but to what end For no Protestant liuing in his right wits will deny this That the Apostles spake much more then is written And whatsoeuer they spake as Apostles in execution of their Ministery is of equall authority with that which they wrote For inke and paper conferre no authoritie or validity beyond the subiect and author of the writing Therefore the Tradition of the Apostles and of the Church is without all question of good credite and esteeme and so much wee professe Art 34. I graunt it hath displeased some which is said 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is Tradition which auoweth it seeke no further I see no reason why any should be so displeased therewith For if it be a Tradition of the Catholique Church and such Traditions onely hee meaneth Chrysostome saith there no more than hee may No more than Augustine and Tertullian haue said It is Tradition I goe no further No more will◠in any thing for my part I promise you that is controuerted betwixt you and vs at this day Make that appeare which you propose to haue been a Tradition of the Catholique Church and you and I shall soone agree shake hands and no more adoe Saint Basil you haue kept for the close it seemeth and for the vpshot of all and he indeed is in the place remembred very much for all Traditions vnwritten deriued to the Church from the Apostles I know some Protestants especially of preciser cut doe discredit the Author as a Counterfeit onely vpon Erasmus bare word who sauoured some discongruity which I could neuer finde of stile I am not of that or their minde Others being at a stand because of their owne priuate fancies oppose Saint Basil vnto Saint Basil For my part I beleeue
shall not depart is Gods promise Mans promise reciprocall is I will not depart from them If I depart that is if man faile They may and shall depart God is then free Now this supposed what assurance is there for my words shall not depart c So your first Text is mistaken peraduenture in the meaning but without peraduenture in the allegation It is Esay 5â— 21. not as you tender it from your aduisers 49. 21. And lastly it is to be vnderstood of the Church of the Iewes in particular conuerted vnto Christ as it seemeth by Saint Paul Rom. 11. 26. and not of the Church of the Christians already conuerted and so you misapply as well as mistake But more ridiculously in your second Text Iohn 14. 16. For haue you read or heard that euer any Protestant maintained That the holy Ghost can erre I suppose not I beleeue you are not so much past shame to say so and yet your conclusion is so The spirit of truth cannot erre For hauing recited the Text of the Gospell your illation is Therefore the spirit of truth hath aboade for euer and shall abide for euer with the Church and consequently cannot erre What Sir cannot erre To my vnderstanding The Spirit of Truth cannot erre can you vnderstand it otherwise But let your barbarismes goe by to the point I answer first you faile and that confessedly in your vndertakings It is but consequently the Church cannot erre therefore confessed not expresly Secondly I answer out of the Text it selfe This promise is for comfort not instruction The Comforter shall abide for euer for Christ there spake of affliction which should ensue Thirdly were it punctually for direction we might reioyne It was a temporary promise a personall priuiledge to the Apostles you thought wee would say so belike supposing wee had no other shift silly men like your selfe therefore you come in with by way of preuention But the Apostles themselues could not abide for euer poore foole that knowest not there is duplex aeternum frequent in Scripture Gods euer and mans euer That for euerlasting as God is This for the terme of his being so for euer is thus no more then while you are all the dayes of your life But we seeke no aduantage we will not take it we grant Gods Spirit eternally assistant to the Catholique Church then represented in the Apostles and therefore we admit that you belye vs in your Proposition The Church can erre to be vnderstood of the Catholique Church as is expressed The third Text in order Esay 35. 8. is so farre from expressing the not erring of the Church that it is a question though such a Nouice as you know it not whether it be to be taken of the Church at all Hierome in his Comments expoundeth it of Christ who saith of himselfe Iohn 14. I am the way the truth the life An high way shall be there and a way and it shall be called the way of holinesse the vncleane shall not passe ouer it but it shall be for those The way faring men though fooles shall not erre therein Who told you that this way was the Church why not the Scripture which is also a way and called a way as to my remembrance the Church is not Ibi erit semita via mundissima quae sancta vocabitur c. There shall be a path saith Hierome and a most cleane way which shall be called Holy and which saith of himselfe I am the way by which way the polluted cannot passe where also we reade it spoken in the Psalme Blessed are the vndefiled in the way And this way that is our God shall be vnto vs so direct so plaine so open and champion that no wandring shall be there Fooles and silly men may walke therein vnto whom in the Prouerbs wisdome speaketh thus If there be any little ones let them come vnto me and shee hath spoken vnto the Fooles Come you and eate of my bread Thus Hierome vpon the place Tertullian in 4. against Marcion is indifferent for Christ the head of the Church or Faith in Christ the life of the Church Your Worship Sir Gagger out of your authoritie cast it meerely vpon the Church Satis pro Imperio if you can out-beare it Howsoeuer it is not expresse as it should be Not to purpose if it were expresse our question is not whether fooles can erre but whether the Church can erre The Church hath often beene compared to a Ship and now at last by you made a Ship of Fooles Content so you be Pilot in that Ship Sir Foole. Once at length you rightly bid vs goe see more For the Text of Iohn 16. 13. is more expresse than all the former He shall leade you into all truth But what if this text concerne not truth vpon Earth but Truth in Heauen What becommeth then of your Not erring Augustine and Bede encline that way What if it be personall vnto the Apostles alone not to the Church or their successours Hee will shew you the things to come and I haue many things to say vnto you but you cannot beare them now these such like passages doe more than seeme to conclude it vnto them What if he meant but All things that were necessary and conuenient for them to know so Theophylact Euthymius and others In this sort the Church is eternally directed so the Church directed cannot erre Matth. 18. 17. It is commaunded by authoritie Tell the Church and heare the Church No good proofe the Church cannot erre For the Scribes and Pharises were to be heard and obeyed yet had no assurance of infallibility Kings and Princes are to be obeyed yet haue they fallen into great enormities Ephes 5. 27. the Church is said to be glorious without spot or wrinckle or blame which is to be vnderstood de toâ—o integrato of the parts in Heauen and earth Of the time to come rather than present Without blame yet not without wrinckle euen here for error may be where blame is none Esay 9. 7. the Kingdome of Christ is to be established with iudgement and with iustice for euer and yet I know no such priuiledge annexed to iudgement or iustice of infallibility No more then Ezech. 37. 26. to a Couenant of peace an Euerlasting couenant to multiplying of them or placing Gods Sanctuary amongst them for euer Luk. 22. 32. and Matth. 23. 3. What correspondency haue they one with another not to speake of reference vnto the poynt In the former Peters faith was prayed for that it might not faile and yet Peter denied Christ Iesus If Peter were not the Church what maketh this Text amongst the rabbâ—e If Peter were the Church may erre as Peter fayled though not eternally one or other In the latter the Pharises must be heard And therefore will you say they erred not If they erred as doubtlesse they did then to what purpose are they pretended for not erring of the Church Much good may the
Pharises doe your Church 1 Pet. 2. 9. The Church is styled a chosen generation a royall Priesthood an holy nation a peculiar people glorious titles but nothing to this They cannot erre Iohn 17. 17. Gods word is truth I graunt But is Gods Word euer in the mouth of man The Apostles were sanctified and that in Gods truth according vnto Christs Prayer Yet after this Prayer Peter went not right when Saint Paul reproued him he fell and that foulely in denying Christ That which is sanctified is accepted not euer so sanctified as without spot As for 1 Cor. 11. 25. if the Institution or rather Commemoration of the institution of the holy Communion be a proofe sufficient that the Church cannot erre wee yeeld the cause if nothing to purpose what meant this idle pate to range it heere What the man would say in Psalm 101. 23. 20. or whether hee would send vs after mistaking there I cannot tell and till then I cannot answere For not so much as neere thereabout is ought to purpose of not erring Ephes 2. 20. Wee reade that they were built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets And what then Could they not erre Dare you say so They could for they haue and are shaken off from that foundation but so long as they stood on fast they erred not holding one Faith one Lord one Baptisme Eph. 4. 5. which if you and we doe at this day by your owne argument auoid it if you can we erre not As for one heart and one soule of the belieuers Act. 4. 32. it is in reference of loue one to another not in vnity of Doctrine all with one another And yet there were differences in that vnion for example sake inter Paul and Barnabas and might be disproportion in their Doctrine as dissimilitude in the habitude and condition of those sheepe in one sheepe-fold vnder one Shepheard and yet all heare the Shepheards voyce Iohn 10. 16. and hee that will not heare some of those Sheepe Luc. 10. 16. be taxed for not regarding the Shepheard when as yet for all that some of those Sheepe be gone astray To conclude The Church cannot erre neither collectiue nor representatiue Thus your Masters distinguish the termes of this question that goe workman-like and not like you clutteringly to worke So they so wee In the largest extent not erre at all Secondly not erre in poynts of Faith For in matters of fact they confesse errour Faith is fundamentall or accessory There none is here error may accrew Fathers to be seene you afford vs none Not because there are none but because your reading could supply none Who take vp all vpon retaile and credit hauing so small store at home The Church cannot erre is most true and the Church may erre is as true each part considered as it ought V. That the Church hath beene hidden and inuisible IT may be some priuate opinions haue runne vpon inuifibility of the Church which are no doctrinall decisions nor to be imputed vnto the resolued Doctrine of the Protestants that are of another minde Nunquam est quod nusquam videtur That which cannot be seene if it be seeable is no where at all nor in being For as Saint Augustine well said Quo modo confidimus ex diuinis liter is accepisse nos Christum manifestum si non accepimus Ecclesiam manifestam How is it possible wee should hope to haue Christ manifest in Scripture except wee haue likewise the Church manifest Therefore on all hands it is resolued the Church hath euer beene visible since there was a Church In England especially how can this fellow impute inuisibility to vs who claime and proue a succession and therefore needes a visibilitie from the time of the Apostles If any doe thinke otherwise or cannot doe this we vndertake no patronage at all of them The Church is a City seated on a Hill which is naturally visible though in a fogge or mist not discerned There euer was and will be a Church vnto whom complaints may be made though the Church doth not euer heare complaints Those that haue fell vpon an inuisibility may perhaps be tollerated if well interpreted and vnderstood For euen the visible Church in her more noble parts may be said to be inuisible First the Saints triumphant and now regnant with Christ are parts of the Church in largest extent Who being in Heauen are vnknowne their persons proprieties and indowments The Saints militant her more excellent parts on Earth according to her more royall indowments the Elect according vnto purpose of Grace are knowne onely vnto God alone the searcher of secrets and decipherer of thoughts Such as be secret occultò intus are there not visible vnto man In this sence in regard of these parts the Church is and is esteemed inuisible and so held euen of the Papists themselues Otherwise then so wee doe not speake of inuisibility So that the man must fall foule with his owne part or be at warre with his owne wits Moderate men on both sides confesse this controuersie may cease Et quamuis praesens haec Ecclesia Romana non parum in morum disciplinae integritate adde etiam in doctrinae sinceritate ab antiquâ illâ vnde orta deriuata est discesserit tamen eodem fundamento doctrinae sacramentorum à Deo institutorum firma semper constitit communionem cum antiquâ illâ indubitatâ Christi Ecclesiâ agnoscit colit Quare alia diuersa ab illâ esse non potest tametsi multis in rebus dissimulis sit Manet enim Christi Ecclesia sponsa quamuis multis erroribus vitijs sponsum suum irritauerit quamdiu à Christo suo sponso non repudietur tametsi multis fâ—agellis ab ipso castigetur As for our Gagger hee is interessed happely otherwise In standeth him in hand to vphold and foment a faction lest for insufficiency otherwise hee turne Host and sell Bottle-Ale That mustie obiection as hee calleth it of Elias may doe him some pleasure at that time I adde no more touching this proposition because it is but lost labour VI. That it is forbidden in holy Scripture the publique seruice of the Church to be in a tongue not vnderstood of all the Assistants NO doubt Contrary to our owne Bibles in such sort that if the Protestants be not gagged now their mouthes are wider than Gargantuaes and their lips somewhat like to Germans that were nine mile asunder Certes neuer so foyled by texts of Scripture since Luther went out to this day Therefore expedite tabulas Chrysippei sophi For heere you haue a singular piece of worke indeede The Church of England directed not onely by the light of Israel the Word of God but also perswaded by common sense and reason hath and hath had her Seruice the publique prayers and Liturgie of the Church in a knowne tongue vnderstood of all that are present there ordinarily This is contrary to their
from all thy sinnes If this be acknowledged the Doctrine of our Communion Booke and practice of our Church accordingly as it is iniurious are those opposites vnto truth and lyers against their owne knowledge that impute it to vs which wee are confessed to deny That none but God can forgiue sinnes This must proceede out of faction or that which is worse But this fellow proceedeth vpon a further extreamity to strengthen a truth in it selfe with a lye made by himselfe that our Doctrine is contrary to our Bibles Matth. 9. 3. 8. To proue against vs that which we deny not viz. this power delegated vnto Priesthood thus you alledge But when the multitude saw it they maruailed and glorified God who had giuen such power vnto men as to forgiue sins Which words As to forgiue sinnes are not in our Bibles out of which you vndertake to proue your Assertion Nor in your owne Bibles follow which you will You haue added them out of your store to serue your owne turne contrary to Scripture and further contrary to sense Because that thing which amazed them then for which they glorified God was a thing sensible visible apprehended of all When they saw it Now see sinnes forgiuen they could not heare it pronounced belieue it they might Secondly the power there giuen is not ordinary as that of absolution is but extraordinary and miraculous to heale the sicke Peter and his Successour had that but very few or none had this You know it was answered a Pope once when he shewed a masse of Gold and Siluer to one and added The Church could not say now Siluer and Gold haue I none No quoth the other Nor can it say Arise and walke This is that power there mentioned could you see it not that of Absolution ordinary That of Ioh. 20. 21. Matth. 16. 19. Giue that power vnto the Apostles to forgiue sinnes But may it not be excepted it was a personall priuiledge I answere not so for I belieue it not The collation was originall to them as to those from whom it was to be conueyed vnto others But some are happely of that opinion and it may seeme probable vnto others you should haue cleared the Texts of that obiection and then your performance had beene to purpose Matth. 16. 19. May be vnderstood you meane of sinnes forgiuen but yet only secondarily for thesi secunda Because we reade in the Euangelist whatsoeuer and not whomsoeuer this place is to be vnderstood of any knot whatsoeuer indeede rather of the power of the sword than of the keyes And it seemeth that if this place be not personall to Peter and his successors as by this allegation for forgiuing it neither is nor can be then our most holy Father hath lost a maine pillar of his Papacy peculiar to Saint Peter and his successours So these Madianites sheath their swords one in anothers sides and crosse themselues in their owne positions In Matth. 18. 18. The Text is so expresse to the purpose that Origen Chrysostome Theophilact and Anastasius vnderstand it of all Christians whomsoeuer that sundry Roman Catholiques if Maldonate deceiue vs not vnderstand it of no more than ciuill policy Goe take it Whatsoeuer you binde on earth shall be bound in Heauen and whatsoeuer you loose in Earth it shall be loosed in Heauen as your selues will for the power and execution of the keyes Wee deny not in any sort that power is giuen vnto mortall men to forgiue sinnes on earth nor to binde by excommunication which is frequently practised and peraduenture too frequently amongst vs. Vnto that 1 Cor. 5. 5. Artic. 33. thus wee subscribe That person who by open denunciation of the Church is rightly cut off from the vnity of the Church and excommunicated ought to be auoyded and to be taken of the whole multitude of the faithfull as an Heathen and a Publican vntill hee be openly reconciled by penance and receiued into the Church by a Iudge that hath authoritie thereunto And in this sort Saint Paul deliuered Hymenaeus and Alexander 1 Timoth. 1. 20. and forgaue the incestuous Corinthian 2 Cor. 2. 10. Which places by your direction wee haue seene and finde the Article agreeing with them As for 2 Cor. 5. 19. It is not to purpose of forgiuing sinnes by delegated authority vnto a Priest but of Reconciling by the whole office and function of the ministry God was in Christ saith the Apostle and reconciled the world vnto himselfe not imputing their sinnes vnto them and hath committed to vs the word of reconciliation So wee haue seene eyther nothing at all to purpose or else that of which wee made no question nor yet doe any at all As little in Fathers that affirme the same Irenaeus Lib. 5. cap. 14. saith the raising of Lazarus from death to life was a Symbole or figure of our Resurrection from Sinne to God Hee saith no more that I can see or finde Ambrose Lib. 1. it should be de paenitent cap. 7. Nor August Tract 49. in Iohn Nor Gregor hom 26. in Euangel if wee may belieue Bellarmine Lib. 3. de paenitent cap. 3. from whom you transcribed these testimonies without considering of these Fathers in their owne workes but so carelessely that if you were a Schoole-Boy lures in corpore for you referre vs to Gregor hom 26. in Euangel Whereas Bellarmine hath it 6. and to Ambrose Lib. de paenitentia as if Saint Ambrose had written but one Booke of that Argument not diuided into Chapters whereas Bellarmine directed you aright to the seauenth Chapter of his 1. Booke Was this securitie stupiditie or insolency in you or what was it XII That wee must not confesse our Sinnes but onely vnto God THat wee must not implyeth a flat negatiue or iniunction rather vnto the contrary Shew mee any such inhibition and I will say which I belieue you neuer will deserue at any Protestants hands you are a true dealing and an honest man Otherwise you are that you are and so will be still The most that hath beene saide is that priuate confession is free not tyed and therefore suus positiui not diuini Therefore happely of conueniency not of absolute necessity That in a priuate Confession vnto a Priest a peculiar enumeration of all Sinnes both of commission and omission with all circumstances and accidents is neuer necessary necessarily most an end not expedient nor yet all things considered required It is confessed that all Priests and none but Priests haue power to forgiue sinnes It is confessed that priuate Confession vnto a Priestâ— is of very ancient practice in the Church of excellent vse and practise being discreetly handled Wee refuse it to none if men require it if neede be to haue it We vrge it and perswade it in extreames Wee require it in case of perplexitie for the quieting of men disturbed and their consciences It hath beene so acknowledged by your fellowes that in the visitation of the sicke it is
hearty satisfaction he was restored Satisfaction not to God but to the Church whom hee had scandalized by his fall Goe along with Saint Paul and the Primitiue times no man will euer say Blacke is your Eye We haue seene Mathew 18. 18. and 16. 19. once and againe to as little purpose then as now and now as then The name Pardons and the thing your Pardons are two things much differing euery way and yet in neither place auonched is the Name as by your vndertaking for Expresse it should be The thing as much differing as white and blacke Power to binde and loose we denye not wee maintaine and practice it in our Church We may differ in the Execution but Circumstances alter not Nature your proofes may vouch the Thing the right the vse the being but manner fashion execution onely doubted of and to be proued that you touch not See Fathers that list and like to loose their labour In Tertullian I am sure nothing either in the first Chapter of his Booke ad Martyres remembred by some other of your Gossips nor in his fifth which is supplyed out of your store His Booke ad Martyres is very â—â—ort Finde me Pardons and Indulgences there mentioned and I will purchase a Bull from Rome my selfe whatsoeuer it cost me deere enough without doubt That which you haue a minde vnto by direction of others is this as I guesse Quam paâ—em quidam in Ecclesia non habentes à Martyribus in carcere exorare consueuêre Which Peace some not enioying within the Church haue beene accustomed to intreat the Martyrs in Prison for it Peace there is Pardon after the African phrase of Tertullian and Saint Cyprian whom you make your second Father to be seene and whose testimony is almost idem numero with Tertullians The meaning of both as Pamelius no Protestant may enforme you was this Those that had fallen in time of persecution to auoide or eleuate the censure of the Church through their great suite and importunitie often procured letters deprecatory to the Bishop and Clergie whereto they were lyable from Consessors such as were emprisoned for the truth whom those Fathers call Martyrs that so at their intreaty and for their confessions famous in the Church the rigour of discipline might be suspended mitigated or determined and they without more adoe be restored vnto the Church Against this custome in breach of discipline Tertullian and especially Cyprian inueigh most bitterly So then take your choyce either these Fathers cannot be seene to affirme for your purpose or if so auoide it if you can your pardons at the first arising vp in the Church were but abuses and as such resisted exclaimed on condemned as irregular and as impious by the Fathers of those times Tertullian and especially Cyprian and so you haue spun a faire threed either way As for Pope Vrban the second make you merry with him much good may his plenary indulgence for the Holy-Land warre and voyage doe you Aske my fellow if I be a thiefe Vrban graunted such Indulgence I confesse So did Gregorie the seauenth his next Predecessor but one first take vpon him to depose Princes and dispose of their Kingdomes by Apostaticall authoritie No man heard of the one before Gregorie nor of the other before Vrban The eldest aboue 1000. yeares after Christ Vrban the eight that now Popeth it may proclaime a Croisado if hee will and iustifie his fact as well as any other but the true reason holdeth not now The World is growne wiser and men loue money too well to be so cheated of it as their fore fathers were to emptie their owne and fill the Popes Coffers by Croisado cousonages But what a Bayard is this to shew such blockish Ignorance being an vndertaker and that with some contumely against the whole Nation of Protestants Wee are told it was Anno Christi 160. as if there were any Holy warres in those times when as Vrban the first if hee were then borne yet certainely was not Pope many yeares after till 224. aboue 60. yeares betweene As for Vrban the second hee sate in Anno 1088. A foule ouer sight in such an vndertaker for the gagging of all Protestants mouthes for euer But somewhat there was in it that the Cat wincked when both her eyes were out Some wiser more learned and skilfull than himselfe had obserued it seemeth that Vrban the second Founder of these pardons was the 160. Pope in order from Saint Peter and this poore Ignaro meaning well to the Cause to aduance the credite thereof by antique vse thought it had bin a thing so auncient as the yeare 160. at least best to vse a Catholique tricke of piae fraudis to let it goe so For honest good Catholiques must belieue what their Instructors say though they teach that the Snow is blacke so are they hood-wincked in implicite Faith And as for Heretiques no matter if they spie it or what they say poore mis-led Proselites either reade not their answeres good cause why or if they reade them will not belieue them though neuer so plaine and euident Therefore Quicquid in buccam these men may say and write any thing no matter what XIIII That the Actions and Passions of Saints doe serue for nothing vnto the Church MEntiris furcifer a leude lye in imputation of flat impiety They serue for nothing those worthies of Dauid those mightie men of Warre Holy Saint Stephen and his Arriere-ban of valiant Aduenturers in the cause of Christ Iesus that in life and death haue so glorified God and set vp that bloudy banner of our Redemption displayed on the battlements of Death and Hell 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Indeede this was the power of that omnipotent God not to be vttered by the tongue of men which did so inable them vnto such performings saith Iustine himselfe one of that Societie They are our Crowne and our exceeding great reioycing We boast of them and of their noble acts wee commemorate their worths in our common seruice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 said Nazianzen I take it or Basil one of the two and wee take vp that saying whose soeuer it was In doing them honour we delight exceedingly We triumph in the bloud they haue shed for our Sauiour Their acts were recorded for imitation that considering their Precedents and worthy performings wee might be incouraged to follow their example 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 As springing Wels they supply vs continually saith Clemens Alexandrinus What doe they supply vs with all 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with commonifaction to shew our selues religious louers of God though with shedding of our bloud To shew forth our Faith with losse of our liues Witnesses they are so is their name Martyres for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to witnesse Credendorum agendorum sustinendorum recipiendorum Of things to be belieued performed indured receiued saith Bonauenture And are these for nothing vnto the Church Did euer any Protestant say or thinke so
of these Holy Saints of God For shame speake truth and shame the Deuill the Father of lyes and such lying Libellers as our Gagger But belike it is for nothing which is not for your purpose And therefore whatsoeuer Protestants doe thinke and teach and esteeme of the life and actions the death and Passions of those holy Saints of Christ it is nothing because that they build not vp thence a Magazin nor store-house for the Church nor supply other mens defects by their superfluities that the Holy Father may thereby mugle men and fill his 〈◊〉 coffers by lifting law A thing so improbable for that fained treasury that as Bellarmine confesseth some of the Schoolemen as Maironis and Durand haue not approued it Which they durst not haue done had Saint Paul beene of that minde and tendred that Doctrine Colos 1. 24. I reioyce in my sufferings for you and fill vp that which is behinde you reade wanting and reade so if you list of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his bodies sake which is the Church Whence if you say true the ground of Indulgences hath euer beene And you meane since there were Indulgences heard off For the time was in the Protestants opinion at least that no such thing was in being which yet I maruaile much it so should be and that many writing of that argument haue not so much as dreamed thereof and many no Protestants expound it otherwise Osorius a Iesuite in his Sermons saith Quid deest passioni Christi nisi vt nos similia patiamur What can be wanting to the suffering of Christ but onely this that wee in like sort suffer with him Paul suffered much indured much yet was hee not perfect if himselfe say true and for the Church of Christ to giue them example to strengthen and confirme them in what they had receiued from him filled vp the measure appointed for him in conformitie to the sufferings of Christ Iesus Barradas another of that same Society Tom. 3. vpon the Gospels Quod ad sufficientiam attinet nihil deerat passioni Cruci Christi The Crosse and sufferings of Christ were all sufficiency and that way naught wanted vnto his passion Vt tamen efficax esâ—et Crux app 〈…〉 tio praedicatio laboribus plena deerat Ideo Paulus â—it se adimplere quae desunt passionum Christi quia per multos labores Euangelium gentibus praedicabat And yet to make the Crosse and sufferings of Christ effectuall there wanted application of it by Preaching A thing laborious and exceding painefull For which cause Paul saith that hee filleth vp or supplyeth if you will that which was wanting vnto the sufferings of Christ for as much as with great paynes hee preached the Gospell vnto the Gentiles Differences there may be amongst Interpreters but none not partialists take it so as to make vp a Store-house for the Church out of Christs sufferings supplied by Saint Paul For so it must be admit this Magazin and we must admit a supply a supply is not but vpon insufficiency Can a man without blasphemie babble thus Christs imperfect a d insufficient sufferings were made vp and supplyed by Saint Paul In the merits of Christ there are no 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 comming short remaines or as you will call them wants For if so I say no more but how can your selfe call them superabundant as you doe and as they are The Text should speake expressely if you kept your wo 〈…〉 for making vp a store for the Church in time of need which is so farre from expressely doing that as that not obscurely it insinuateth what you pretend no not in the interpretations of no Babes vpon your owne partie Iesuites of note and learning Philip. 2. 30. Because for the worke of Christ he was nigh vnto death not regarding his owne life to supply your lacke Epaphroditus is the man there spoken of a faithfull seruant of Christ in the worke of the ministery who with the hazard of his owne life puts himselfe to doe seruice vnto the Church of God This is the commendation Saint Paul giueth of him Your inference is Hee did more than hee needed to haue done for who required any such seruice at his hand as this Hee might haue kept himselfe close and warme at home and haue slept if hee would in an whole skinne This is your good wholesome Catholique Doctrine For the benefit accruing out of the actions and Passions of Saints is to make vp the treasure of the Church out of workes supererogated by them when they doe more than God requireth As for instance when the Virgin Mary without not onely actuall sinnes mortall veniall in your opinion but also originall as not conceiued in them suffered yet much which was not due to her because all sufferings are the wages of Sinne as when martyrs suffer more or greater torments than can in iustice be exacted of them though God should enter into iudgment with them and deale with them in the rigour of his iustice So Epaphroditus sicke vnto death indu 〈◊〉 that which in no case was his deseruing or due vnto him hee indured it therefore for the Philippians sake that through his sufferings they might be saued and haue supply of that which was wanting in the reckoning to the sufferings of Christ as good blasphemy as euer was vttered by any enemy of the Grace of Christ I will abide by it Secondly admit it good Catholique truth yet is it not to purpose true for Epaphroditus was then aliue and vpon recouery aliues-like They are and must be dead that bring in their shot to make vp that masse of treasure for the Church and good cause why For though then at present hee had enough at home and also spare to serue others turnes yet wisdome would hee should not be too lauish or profuse for happely hee might haue neede thereof himselfe For your Doctrine also is Hee that standeth may fall No man is sure of his Saluation therefore well is it prouided though you regard it not or know it not that your store is not to be augmented till men are dead Thirdly in your owne construction and learning this Text of Saint Paul will doe you no good For in poynt of supply for Pardons and Indulgences from the Actions and Passions of Saints you admit not of merits but onely satisfactions Now this text serueth if at all for any thing to any purpose for merit and not for satisfaction Lastly you play the Catholique knaue in plaine termes a man may call a spade a spade and him a knaue that so deserueth it For you will conuict vs by our owne Bibles Now in our Bibles wee reade thus Because for the worke of Christ hee was nigh vnto death not regarding his life to supply your lacke of seruice towards mee You cut off these words of seruice towards mee and set vp your rest vpon to supply your lacke as if the defects of the Philippians
can please God or be accepted of him Hee is not iust that is in this state In that of Grace a man is iust when hee is changed which must haue concurrence of two things Priuation of being to that which was the Body of sinne A new constitution vnto God in another state In which hee that is altered in state changed in condition transformed in minde renewed in soule regenerate and borne a new to God by Grace is iust in the state of iustification ceasing to be what hee was becomming what he was not before Thus to be changed is to be a new Creature The act is saide by Dauid Psalm 51. To create Which being a worke of Omnipotent power exceedeth the indowment of any Creature It is not therefore of our selues from or by our selues But this change is the worke of the right hand of the most high operating powerfully as hee can and actiuely as hee will Wrought it is by God by God alone Man or Mans free-will is not author hereof Therefore no merit interveneth therefore not to be ascribed to our selues None here but Christ preuenting vs the Author of our integritie crowne of our felicitie and consummator of our glorie Secondly to iustifie is to giue increase and augmentation vnto that first Article as to be more iust in processe and profectu by increase of Grace and the fruit of that Spirit by which they are renewed in the inner man In naturall action and passion it plainely appeareth Cold water is made warme vpon the fire heere is an alteration of the propertie Warme water is made hotter by continuing on the fire with an augmentation and accesse of that heate So I vnderstand it Apoc. 22. Qui iustus est iustificetur adhuc Hee that is iust let him become more iust by accesse of Gods Grace euer day by day Thirdly to iustifie is to declare and pronounce one iust as Prou. 8. He that iustifieth the wicked and condemneth the righteous is alike abominable before the Lord. So againe in the 50. Psalme That thou mayest be iustified in thy sayings and cleare when thou art iudged God is not otherwise iustified but by being knowne acknowledged and confessed iust in all his wayes As he is said to be magnified when his noble acts are made knowne and men doe praise him for his mercy goodnesse and saluation Iustification properly is in the first acceptance A Sinner is then iustified when hee is made iust that is translated from state of Nature to state of Grace as Colos 1. 13. Who hath deliuered vs from the power of darkenesse and hath translated vs into the Kingdome of his deere Sonne Which is motion as they say betwixt two termes and consisteth in forgiuenesse of sinnes primarily and Grace infused secondarily Both the act of Gods Spirit in man but applyed or rather obtained through Faith which representeth first God willing and ready to forgiue and renew Draweth neere vnto him closeth in fast with him Adhereth vnto him inseparabâ—y with I will not let thee goe except thou blesse And God doth returne I will blesse thee pardon thy sinnes for my names sake and accept thee as mineowne in Christ my sonne whose Bloud hath made attonement for Man So that properly to speake God onely iustifieth who alone imputeth not but pardoneth sinne Who onely can and doth translate vs from death vnto life renueth a right Spirit and createth a new heart within vs. Causally and actiuely God doth it But because God was drawne thereto by our Faith which laying hands vpon his mercy in Christ obtayneth this Freedome and newnesse and renewing from him Faith is saide to iustifie instrumentally And Faith alone to doe it without copartners in the act which is in instanti as Gods immediate workes are all done and not long adoing as wee know The Soule of man is the subiect of this act In which vnto which are necessarily required certaine preparations and preuious dâ—spositions to the purpose As knowledge of God our selues his Law his iustice iealousie iudgement c. Feare Hope Contrition Loue desire of purpose for a new life and such like But these are all with and from Faith which in the very act of iustification are not actiue though habitually there then before and after at least some of them perhaps not all Iustification is not but in the Church Faith is the life and originall of the Church as appeareth by the Scriptures by the Subiect and performance of Faith So that worthily may the principall indowment of Grace be ascribed vnto the roote and originall of Christian Piety Faith Fides prima datur saith Saint Augustine ex qua caetera impetrantur In the first signification then of iustification the which properly is iustification wee acknowledge instrumentally Faith alone and Causally God alone In the second and third beside God and Faith wee yeeld to Hope and Holinesse and Sanctification and the fruits of the Spirit in good workes But both these are not Iustification rather Fruits and Consequents and effects appendants of Iustification then Iustification which is a solitary act So that well and truly and according to the tenet of Antiquity is it resolued by our Church Artic. 11. We are accounted righteous before God onely for the merit of our Lord and Sauiour Iesus Christ by faith and not for our owne workes or deseruing Our Iustification in the act thereof is onely the worke of God for Christs sake whose death and Passion apprehended by Faith which is the sole peculiar worke of Faith to doe as it hath made an attonement betwixt God and vs so hath it procured remission of our Sinnes at his hands and thereupon a new state of Grace not for any merit or deseruing of our own which is vtterly excluded in this Act. Thus Thomas 1. 2. q. 114. ar 7. Nullo modo aliquis potest sibi mereri reparationem post lapsum Restauration after fall that is Iustification of a sinner no man can procure or deserue vnto himselfe To whom agreeth the Councell of Trent Sess vi can viij and your owne men confesse it is gratuita And therefore as our Article saith not for our owne workes or deseruings Further our Church proceedeth not to the augmentation or declaration of iustification there But inferreth Wherefore that we are iustified by faith alone is a most wholesome Doctrine and very full of comfort as it is indeede and your long disputes may intangle the simple but not infringe the truth nor indeede discent from it Fides non absoluit iustificationem saith Casalius and wee admit it but sola iustificat and hee admitteth that For so haue antiquitie auouched generally as himselfe and Cassander doe confesse Origen Hilary and many others to haue resolued so But this is contrary vnto our Bible 1 Corinth 13. 2. Though I haue all faith so that I could remoue mountaines and haue no charitie I am nothing Therefore only faith doth not iustifie Why because Faith without Charity doth not iustifie for
Saint Augustine doth not proceed Weresolue saith he there that a man may collect it by infallible assurance and diuine if wee looke into the faithfulnesse of him that promiseth but if wee consider our owne disposition we assigne no more but probable and coniectural assurance This Bellarmine assigneth This is enough Faction may transport a man to wrangle for more but when once they ioyne issue the difference will not be much Much or little great or small thus or so the Church of England is not touched that designeth neither Vngratefull Colt you are that spurne with your heeles at the brests that gaue you life if not to God yet to nature and impute more vnto her then she meant or intended to determine or maintaine Indeed contrary as you bely them consonant agreeing as they beleeue and maintaine They neuer went against these words of Saint Paul 1. Cor. 9. 27. Lest by any meanes when I preached to others I my selfe should be a Cast-away But they say you mistake and mis-apply those words and therein goe against your owne Directors For their Tenet is that Saint Paul was assured of his saluation whether by ordinary diuine Faith or extraordinary diuine Reuelation I enquire not at present nor much care I take which you ignorantly doo contradict or vnlearnedly doo oppose Secondly you oppose plain Scripture in your Bibles for Saint Paul a Iew by birth as Bellarmine resolueth semper se in numero Electorum point cùm de Praedestinatione loquitur Rom. 8. 9 11. Eph. 1. accounteth himself euer in the Roll of Elect wheresoeuer he mentioneth Predestination as in the 8. 9 11. chapters to the Romans and 1. to the Ephesians And yet say you He was not assured infallibly He dissembled therfore thought one thing said another So much is That Apostle beholding to you They neuer went against him that you intend in those other two Texts of Rom. 11. 20. Philip. 2. 12. For to him that continueth faithfull vnto the end is appointed the reward of eternall life And yet it is possible and I could doo it to puzzle such a Lozzell as your self with expositions of those Texts that might well put off your application but I vndertake no priuate opinions or peculiar interest I iustifie no man but the Church of England That I can doo against your Betters that I will perform against your self A cleanly Put-off but too common and therefore to be smiled-at for your pouerty You will not labour to ouerthrowe it by proof of Fathers For why Your good Patrons were themselues to-seek and you haue but reuersions from other meâ—â— trenchers If it were so improbable as you would haue vs suppose it Catharine could not haue maintained it as he hath done nor put Dominicus à Soto no Baby so to it as I knowe hee hath nor backed it with authorities of Austen and others If so improbable I maruell the Councell of Trent did so hardly passe it and two Legates of three or foure at most professe it went too soon out of their fingers and came to resolution before it had throughly been decided What Spirit directed that Councell in this where the Principall in a sort complains of surreption This I haue from no Heretick Catharine related it from their mouthes He you haue heard was an Arch-bishop of great name and as learned as many were in Trent But I proceed XXIII That euery one hath not his Angell-keeper THis fellow it seemeth had but little emploiment when he vndertook to abridge our Controuersies he is so apt and disposed to enlarge them and set them at odds who would willingly haue been quiet Such Boutifeus as he is hinc ad malam crucem quibus quieta moâ—ere magna merces that loue to see the waters troubled and take the very questioning of things that might rest a sufficient hire to set them on worke that the Father of Diuision may applaude them and crie Oh well done For concerning Angell-keepers what needed this Thesis A thing not defined in any Councell no not in that last Conuenticle of Trent because free and in Opinion euery way The most that can be sayd against Opposers is that of Vasques disputing this Diuinitie probleme Sine graui temeritatis notâ negare non licet VVee cannot deny without very great rashnes that euery man hath his Angell-keeper To this I subscribe with all my heart so doth the Church of England for ought I knowe Indeede I do not finde Decision or Resolution one way or other in the Confession publike of our Church No more do I in any Councell generall or particular to my remembrance in any age The reason is no man did question it all held it a truth and what needed decision where no scruple was The opinion of the antient Schoole the Fathers of the Church is positiue and affiâ—matiue for Angel-Keepers the saying of Saint Augustine is well knowne Parum est fecisse Angelos tuos fecisti et custodes parâ—ulorum It sufficed not my God that thou madest them thine Angels thou createdst them keepers of the little ones The later Schoole runnes mightily the same way though both with some differences How and To Whom and when deputed Before Origens time and he liued long within 300 yeeres after Christ as himselfe relateth Tract 5. vpon Saint Mathew there were two different opinions in the Church The former maintained that onely those had Angell-keepers deputed vnto them who were of the number of Gods elect from the first instant of their Natiuity The other that none but such holy men indeed had Angel-guardians but from the day of their Baptisme and new Birth in Christ assigned them not before or from their Natiuitie This was the opinion of Antiquitie and no more not as the Church of Rome hath enlarged it that Euery man liuing good and bad from the verie first instant of life to the last gaspe hath an Angel-guardian deputed vnto him as I could make manifest if need were and Basil is punctuall and expresse vpon the 33. Psal page 221. and the 48. Psal page 247. Nor doth the Master of Sentences otherwise conceiue it then Vt quisque Electorum habeat Angelum ad sui protectum atque custodiam specialiter deputatum In 2. d. 11. So that hic Magister non tenetur our Roman Vndertakers haue forsaken not alone the Fathers but their owne Doctor Peter Lumbard to enlarge the point And yet this giddy Goose-gaggler must prate he knoweth not what against the Church of England concerning Angell-keepers in this point who with as good reason and to as great purpose mought haue stirred touching Guardians of Kingdomes Cities Corporations Elements and ordering of the world touching the time when the maner how the extent how farre and many other like speculations all disputed of among Diuines in the Church none resolued of as de fide by Diuines for the Church So that had we denied it no such great matter for salus Ecclesiae non
It is well he told vs not in what Chap. we might finde it Such Roters as these are the men that talk of Fathers amongst their Gossips and Proselytes and yet are so stupid as not to know what works a common Father hath written Besides had Tertul. wrote such a second book or sayd any such matter in that second book a Protestant of but meane reading could tell him Tertullian wrote that book beeing lapsed into Montanisme and so of no authority in the Church for resolution though for relation But the truth is the man did but vse Tertullian's name for a cypher to fill vp a number make a fair dumb shew of a Shepheard with a sheepe on his shoulders on a Chalice which is the picture he looked at in Tertul. But I can send him to Tertullian to learne how like a Woodcock hee remembred those Texts of Scripture for the Cherubins Sic et Cherubin et Seraphin aureâ in arce figuratum exemplum certè simplex ornamentum accommodata suggestut longe diuersos habendo causas ab Idololatriae conditione ob quam similitudo prohibetur non videntur similitudinum prohibitarum Legi refragari non in eo similitudinis statu deprehensa ob quem similitudo prohibetur Lib 2. con Mar. 22. This commeth home to the reason why God ordained them and answereth your Cauill to the full As for your Images take his description in the like de Praescript cap XII Igitur si statuas et imagines frigidas mortuorum suorum simillimas non adoramus quas milui et mures et aranâ—ae intelligunt nonne laudem magis quà m poenam merebatur repudium agniti erroris Hee thought not then very honorably of Imagines whom wee are bidden goe see for I know not what engrauing on the Chalices For Gregory Nazianzen I did much maruaile what it was wee might see in him concerning Images who writeth onely a deprecatory Epistle in behalf of the Inhabitants of Diocaesarea vnto Olympius the Emperours Lieutenant For I could finde nothing tending vnto Images but onely this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is not much if the Statuae bee demolished and cast downe though it be indeed a pitty to haue such a thing done And what is heere to bee seene any way to purpose This man I beleeue had read or rather heard of Billius note vpon the place this Hic obserua Gregorij quoque tempore aedes sacras statuis imaginibus ornatas fuisse and hauing heard of it made much adoe about it whereas Nazianzen doth not so much as mention Churches nor Chappels the statues hee speaketh of were publique Ornaments of the City and as for worshipping of them it came not within the compasse of his thoughts Billius meant well to the Catholique cause and out of his affection set downe that which hee would haue had Nazianzen speake but not what he did say for Nazianzen not so much as squinteth that way More may any man maruaile at his trifling with Saint Basil on Barlaam the Martyr What shall I call thee O valiant Souldier of Christ Iesus Shall I call thee a Statue or Image of brasse why it is not so solid or substantiall as thou art for Fire doth melt it but fire could not cause thee pluck forth thy hand This is not that passage peraduenture intended but that which insueth Exurgite nunc athleticorum gestorum pictores mutilam ducis imaginem vestro illustrate artificio et obscurius à me depictum coronatum athletam vestrae industriae coloribus conspicuum reddite not with a pencill conceiue not Basil to haue beene a Painter but with a penne So that Homers describing Achilles Vlysses in this mans construction is painting in a table with colours and portraiture to the life None but a Statue would thus discourse or one more senslesse than a block What Basil and Nazianzen could not doe Augustine shall supply who witnesseth that in his time Christ was to bee seene painted in many places betwixt Saint Peter and Saint Paul So is hee in many Churches with vs betwixt the blessed Virgin and Saint Iohn Euangelist So was the holy Virgin by Saint Luke you say So let them be euery where if you please Not the making of Images is misliked not the hauing of Images is condemned but the prophaning of them to vnlawfull vses in worshipping and adoring them XLIIII That no man hath at any time seene God and that therfore his picture or Image cannot be made IGnorant Blunderer whither wilt thou Sure the man is not wel in his wits that challengeth the Protestant vpon these termes No man at any time hath seene God Is it not plaine expresse Scripture that Ioh. 1. 18. No man hath seene God at any time Exo. 33. 20. Thou canst not see my face For there shall no man see mee and liue No man hath no man can in this life no nor in that which is to come So Saint Paul 1. Tim. 6. 16. Whom neuer man saw nor yet can see The reason is rendred by a Pagan 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mortall men haue mortall eyes and God inhabits Immortality and yet this Gagger thinks to gag the Spirit of truth by opposing Texts of Scripture to the contrary that a man may see God Gen. 3. 8. Where God appeared vnto Adam walking in the Garden of Paradise in a corporall forme Accursed Glosser to corrupt the Text There wee read They heard the voyce of the Lord God walking in the Garden in the coole of the day So Hearing and Seeing is all one with this man that hath lost both Hearing and Seeing vnderstanding too A voice in his Philosophy is a corporall forme and so to heare one speake is to see one go and Moses said he knew not what Deuter. 4. 12. You heard the voice of words but saw no similitude saue a voice A whip for a fool rather than an answer to his folly Gen. 28. 12 13. God appeared vnto Iacob standing aboue the Ladder whereon the Angels ascended and descended In what shape did he appear can you tell The Lord stood aboue it so are the words and spake Hee might there stand and speak as hee did in Sinah and yet as saith the Scripture they see no shape So that yet wee haue nothing but belying of Scripture and deprauing the Text to countenance Idolatry in consequence Exod. 33. 11. To Moses He spake face to face as a man speaketh vnto his friend Your great Prophet S. Thomas shall stop your mouth 1. 2. q. 98 ar 3. Secundum opinionem populi loquitur Scriptura The Scripture speaks according vnto popular opinion who thought that Moses talked face vnto face with God cùm per subiectam creaturam id est per Angelum Nubem ei loqueretur appareret where as indeed God appeared vnto and talked with him by the meanes of creatures an Angell in a cloud Or if not so and this answer will not serue by face to face the Scripture meaneth a certain eminent and