Congregations which the Countrey knoweth to be such as you have done pag. 142 143. upon the credit of your false reporters If I have deserved such dealing from you the Christian Assemblies of Worcestershire have not Restrain your indignation to me and abuse not your Brethren that meddle not with you And what is it that is denyed unanimously by other Congregations Surely not the necessity of professing a faith that 's more than Dogmatical at least I know no such Congregations and I hope I shall never know such For all your frequent and confident intimations that yours is the common opinion of Divines and mine is singular If paper could blush abundance of such passages would confute themselves and prevent the delusion of your credulous reader who will believe you to save the labor of a tryal Pag. 185. The words of mine that are cited as against my self are these Vocation which is effectual only to bring men to an outward profession of faith is larger then Election and makes men such whom we are bound to baptize true How unhappy am I that must contradict my opinion in the very words which contain it But still will you perswade men that an outward professing of true saving faith is all one with another kind of faith no man I think knows what which you are busily promoting to be the Title to Sacraments I shall not stand to search Mr. Blake's book for more of my self-contradictions or trouble the Reader with a further vindication For in thus much he may see the face of the rest and discern the judiciousness and equity of the Charge But as Mr. Blake dealeth by me so doth he by the Authors whom he alledgeth for his opinions as pag. 152.153 154 155. and elswhere He sticks not to cite them as owning his cause who in the very words recited by him do condemn it For in those words they make the Church as visible to consist of professors as distinct from true believers and know no members but true Christians and Hypocrites who therefore pretend to that Faith which they have not or else how are they Hypocrites And what 's this to Mr. Blake's new visible members that profess only some other kind of faith or how will this warrant his new kind of Baptism which must be administred upon the Profession of another sort of Faith The Lord illuminate us and pardon all the wrong we have done to his Church and Truth through our darkness and self-conceitedness The third Disputation Quest. Whether the Infants of Notoriously-ungodly baptized Parents have Right to be Baptized Tertullian Apologet. cap. 16. Sed dices Etiam de nostris excedere quosdam à Regulâ Disciplinae Desunt tum Christiani haberi penès nos Philosophi verò illi cum talibus factis in nomine honore sapientiae perseverant Thes. Salmuriens Vol. 3. Pag. 59. Thes. 39. Sacramenta non conferuntur nisi iis qui vel fidem habent vel saltem eam prae se ferunt adeò ut nullis certis argumentis compertum esse possit eam esse ementitam Aaron's Rod Blossoming pag. 514. I believe No conscientious Minister would adventure to baptize one who hath manifest and infallible signs of Unregeneration Sure we cannot be answerable to God if we should minister Baptism to a man whose works and words do manifestly declare him to be an unregenerated unconverted person And if we may not Initiate such a one how shall we bring him to the Lords Table Rutherford Due Right of Presbyteries pag. 231. n. 2. But saith Robinson most of England are ignorant of the first Rudiments and Foundation of Religion and therefore cannot be a Church Answ. Such are materially not the visible Church and have not a Profession and are to be taught and if they wilfully remain in that darkness are to be cast out The third Disputation Quest. Whether the Infants of Notoriously ungodly Baptized Parents have Right to be Baptized THE Question is of the greater moment because about Matter of Practice and that in a Point wherein the Honor of God on one side and the Rights of mens Souls on the other are so much concerned It supposeth first that Baptism is Gods Ordinance of continued Use and that some are to be Baptized Secondly that it is a Benefit or else we could not in the sense now used be said to have Right to it Thirdly It supposeth that some Infants have Right to be Baptized This Question therefore is not to be disputed with the Anabaptists who deny the presupposed And they that are so indifferent in the former as to take it for an inconsiderable matter Whether Infants be baptized or not must needs judge this Question of the Infants of the Ungodly to be much more inconsiderable Fourthly Yet doth it not suppose that the Infants of any ungodly persons have this Right as if it were only the Right of Notorious ones that were disputable but the word Notorious is added to limit our present Dispute to that sort for several Reasons at this time passing by the other but not taking it for granted Fifthly Nor doth the Addition of the term Baptized to Parents take it for granted that no children of unbaptized Parents have such Right But it limits the Question to that sort only as fitter in several respects for our Dispute For the explication of the terms 1. By Infant we mean Children not yet come to the use of Reason so that as they are not sui Juris but at anothers dispose so they are uncapable naturally in any Contract to dispose of themselves being unfit to give consent through a natural defect of that understanding which is pre-requisite By a natural Defect I mean of nature in it self considered and not as corrupted by sin nor as neglected sinfully by our selves or others So that I see not but that Ideots are in the same condition as Infant children But of that let every one think as they see cause In Law homo primae aetatis is an Infant even after he can speak though as to the Etymologie he be called an Infant quia fari nescit i. e. loqui non potest ut Isidor lib. 11.2 2. By Parents we mean principally Natural Parents those who begat those Infants but secondarily also as I suppose those that have Adopted them or bought them or received them as given or delivered to them so that they any way become Their Own and they have the dispose of them and are enabled to enter them into Covenant so as to oblige them on the highest terms Though I know it is not properly that these are called Parents The word Parent is primarily applicable to the Mother only as not being à Parendo but à Pariendo and thence to the Father also because of the Relation between Gigno Pario and so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is sometime used for Genero And though the word Parens be not usually applied to those that Adopt yet Pater is And not unfitly
246.2 The Church with whom the Covenant is made and to whom the Promises of the Covenant are made is the Spouse of Christ his Mystical Body the Sons and Daughters of the Lord God Almighty a Royal Priesthood a chosen Generation Kings Priests to God But this is the Invisible Church of elect Believers not the Visible Church of Visible Professors Pag. 248. The Church whose gathering together and whose unity of faith c. the Lord intendeth by giving to them to that end some to be Apostles c. must be the Church to which all the promises of the Covenant and Priviledges do belong But the Lord intendeth the gathering c. only of the Invisible Elected and Redeemed Church not of the Visible Professing or Confessing Church c. Pag. 249.4 The Invisible Church and not the Visible as it is such hath Right to the Sacraments because these who have Right to the Covenant have Right to the Seals of the Covenant But only the Invisible Church hath Right to the Covenant For God faith only of and to the Invisible Church and not of the Visible in his gracious purpose Jer. 32.38 And I will be their God and they shall be my people Jer. 31.33 I will put my Law c. Now the Visible Church as the Visible is not within the Covenant therefore the Visible Church as the Visible Church and being no more than the Visible Church hath not Right to the Seals of the Covenant but in so far as they are within the Covenant and in so far as God is their God and they his pardoned and sanctified People as it is Jer. 31.33 34. 5. It is known here that our Brethren joyn with the Papists For Papists ignorant of the doctrine of the Visible Church labour to prove that c. Just so our Brethren take all the places for the Priviledges Covenant Promises Stiles of Sister Love Dove Spouse c. 6. A Church in Covenant with God and the Spouse of Christ c. is a Church whereof all the members without exception are taught of God c. But so it is that no Visible Church on earth that are visible Professors of any competent number is such a Church c. therefore no Visible Church as such is a people or Church in Covenant with God See Roger's Catechis part 2. Art 6. pag. 176 177. Concl. 3. A visible Profession of the Truth and Doctrine of Godliness is that which essentially constituteth a Visible Church Only our Brethren and we differ much about the Nature of this Profession Our Brethren will have none members of the Visible Church but such as are satisfactory to the consciences of all the Visible Church and give Evidences so clear as the Judgement of discerning men can attain unto that they are truly regenerated See further This much I have cited specially as to the main Cause Further as to the Distinction in question see him after pag. 185.4 § 5. 1. Dist. All Believers in foro Dei before God have Right to the Seals of the Covenant These to whom the Covenant and body of the Charter belongeth to these the Seal belongeth But in foro Ecclesiastico in an orderly Church way the Seals are not to be conferred by the Church upon persons because they believe but because they profess their believing See further Pag. 188. 1. The Seals of the Covenant are principally given to the Invisible Church as the Covenant it self c. and The Invisible Church as such as a number of Believers have only Right before God to both Covenant and Seals 2. It 's true the Orderly and Ecclesiastick way of dispensing the Seals is that they be dispensed only to the Visible Church Pag. 286. These and many other places do strongly prove our point and specially that the Profession of Simon Magus who before God deserved to be cast out of the Church Act. 8. is sufficient to make one a member of a Visible Church Yea but none deserve in foro Ecclesiae in the Churches Court to be cast out but such as either confess scandalous Sins or are contumacious or convicted judicially of the same before witnesses c. The same Author in his Peaceable Plea pag. 181. We preach and invite in the Gospel all the uncircumcised in heart and all the wicked to come and hear and partake of the holy things of the Gospel and receive the promises thereof with faith And when they come to this heavenly banquet without their wedding Garment Math. 22.12 13. 2 Cor. 2.16 Mat. 21.43 44. it followeth not because they profane the holy things of God that Ministers who baptize the Infants of hypocrites and profane persons are accessary to the profaning the holy things of Christ It is one thing whom Ministers should Receive as members of the Sanctuary and Church and another thing who should come in Pag. 183. Object Divine wrath is kindled for the profanation of holy things Answ. That this is the Ministers or Churches profanation of holy things is not proved It is not wrath procured by the Ministers or those who Receive them into the Church but wrath procured by the unworthy In comers So far Rutherford Having said thus much to Mr. Blakes denyal of the distinction of Gods judgement and the Churches in this case I proceed to that which followeth in his book pag. 141. Mr. Blake 3. They may tell him of the necessity that is put upon Ministers to prophane this Divine Ordinance in putting this seal ordinarily and unavoidably to meer blank paper which is a most contumelious abuse of it Ans. They may sooner tell it than prove it to be any prophanation or contumelious abuse Big words may be bad arguments It s the Claimer that is the Prophaner whom you encourage by telling him that he hath a Title but it is not the Minister who was never made a searcher of hearts no not to know the truth of a Dogmatical faith and therefore may justly set the seal to a blank paper when the Receiver is made judge whether it be blank or not or at least is to give us the evidence that we must proceed upon I would you would before this have told us whether one that dissemblingly pretendeth your Dogmatical faith be a blank paper or not or one that as a Parrat is taught to say I believe in God c. when he understandeth not what he saith If not it seemes a Dogmatical faith is not the Title then in your account If yea then doth the Minister prophane the Ordinance in giving it such and hath not Mr. Blake sealed to many such blanks and contumeliously abused the Ordinance Mr. Blake They may tell him that poor souls are thus miserably cheated in bearing them in hand that these great priviledges and consequently all further Church priviledges are theirs when the conveyance is meer fraudulent that casts it upon them Answ. 1. Alas poor souls Alas miserable cheaters But who are they They that bear them in hand that
I give you not better then either Dr Molin or the two Arminian Divines give let me be branded for a factious Calumniator of the dead whose name is so honourable that the forgery is the greater sin First there is a Manuscript of his own in many mens hands dated March. 3. 1617. at Dublin which I intend to print if no one else do it first which asserteth this Doctrine in the same middle way as Davenant and Camero do And I askt him whether he yet owned it not long before his death and he said He did and was firm in that judgment I asked him to whom he wrote it and he told me as I remember to Mr Culverwell I am certain it was to him or to Mr Eyr who he told me was the man that fell so foul on Mr Culverwell 2. If my own word be not sufficient Dr Kendal can bear witness that he was present once when he heard him own this judgement of Universal Redemption in the middle way and intimated that Dr Davenant and Dr Preston were minded of it by him as reioycing that he sooner owned it and that we cannot rationally offer Christ to sinners on other grounds Now because the Bishop went this middle way when he speaks against the Arminians some feign him to speak against his own doctrine And when he spoke for Universal Satisfaction the Arminians say he was turned to them This is the faithfulness of the world It shames and grieves me to say Of siding Divines and as much almost to say Of a publick Professor of History in Oxford For the principal honour of a Historian is his veracity and impartial fidelity and how much of that this Preface to the Paraenesis is guilty of I leave to consideration upon the taste that is here given But enough of this The fourth and last particular in which I offend some few Brethren by my judgement is that which is the subject of these ensuing Disputations But I can truly say of this as of the rest 1. That if I should change my judgement and please these Brethren its like I should displease many more For 2. I take it for granted that I go in the common rode that the Church of Christ hath gone in from the beginning to this day so far am I from singularity 3. I am most certain that my thoughts were so far from intending singularity or the disturbance of the Church by these or other points in Controversie that I apprehended them strongly to be the truths that must be instrumental to the Churches peace when ever God seeth us meet to attain it And though I never took a point for true eo nomine because it was in the middle or tended to peace yet I purposely chose out these truths rather then other to vindicate because they tend to peace And to the praise of God I speak it that in those antient common disturbing Controversies between the Arminian and Antiarminian Lutheran and Calvinist Iesuite and Dominican I have discerned those Principles which quiet my own mind and which I am confident were they received according to their evidence would quiet the now-contending Christian world But I am past doubt to be derided as arrogant for this confidence and should the Principles in a Method with Evidence be propounded though purposely to heal the divisions of the Church many of the several parties would but rage at the Reconciler and pour out their impotent accusations and reproaches against him because he would attempt the healing of their divisions and would feign him to be the Author of some new Sect for seeking to put an end to Sects But let any man make good my just demand that the Principles propounded shall have an impartial reception according to their Evidence and I will give you security to make good my confidence that they shall quiet the Chrstian world hereabouts But I know this is to be expected from none but God nor at all on earth in any perfection As to the present Controversie it seemed good to Mr Blake to begin it with me and to my Defense he hath opposed an angry Reply not to my whole Book as I did to that part of his which concerned me but to here and there a scrap disordered and maimed and parcelled as he thought good I was in doubt whether to make any rejoinder or further Defense but while I doubted divers Reverend Brethren from several parts wrote to me to move me neither to be silent nor to answer all his words which would be tedious to the Reader but to handle the Controversies by way of Disputation and to bring in Mr Blake's Arguments under them so far as shall be thought necessary Though at first I scarce liked this way as seeming not a full answer but such a course as he took with me yet I did acquiesce in the judgement of my Brethren But yet indeed I think I had never printed a word at all in Defense of my self against Mr Blake but for another providence The third Disputation as here printed was written before Mr Blake's Book against me was printed or in the press as I have reason to think A Copie of this I lent about two years ago to a friend But by what means I know not about three quarters of a year ago I received tidings from a pious learned Minister in the West writing to a friend of his not far from me that there were such abundance of Copies of that Disputation in those parts and some were so purposed that it would be printed if I did not do it my self I confess I was much offended at the news because the Disputation was imperfectly written and on such a subject as to the later part which shews what sins may consist with Godliness that I would have been loath it should have been by them made publike as knowing how unfit it was for the eyes of the Profane But when there was no remedy the best I could do was to add some cautions and annex the other Disputations here adjoyned which were hastily written that the former might not go alone without that company that seemed necessary And this is the occasion of this present writing For the Matter of it I have manifested that I hold the common Doctrine of the Church And many another could I mention as consenting in it besides those particularly there cited Mr Wil. Fenner in the second part of Christs Alarm p. 92 93. saith Another inseparable mark of a true Church is a sincere Profession of the word of God and true Christian religion either in truth and uprightness of heart or else so far as man can judge For though the preaching of the Word come to a place yet it doth not follow presently that there is a Church of God but when divers of them embraced the Word either sincerely or else to see to as far as Paul and others could judge then they were a Church There must be a Congregation of People that do
the Credit of their wordâ— hath Evidence of Credibility therefore they ought to be believed The Major is undeniable taking the measure of belief to be according to the measure of that Evidence The Mâ—nor I prove 1. From the ordination of nature 2. From the consent of the world and certain experience 1. Nature hath not given one man an inspection into the breast of another nor hath God made any Minister a searcher of hearts and beholder of mens thoughts 2. God hath made man capable of knowing in his own thoughts though its true that the heart is so deceitful that there is a great difficulty of knowing them of our selves yet the meaning of that Text Jer. 17 9 10. is concerning others who can know it that is who can know anothers heart But yet for all the deceitfulness a certain measure of knowledge may be had For 3. Man hath a certain knowledge of the Evil of lying and so a certain credibility naturally or by the light of nature as the examples of the very Heathens can witness 4. The tongue was created to be the Index of the mind Though mans actual language be acquired yet his tongue was made for that use All this set together shews ex natura rei that though the Evidence be imperfect yet an Evidence it is Moreover if there be such a thing as fides humana due among men then there is such a thing as Evidence of Credibility But the Antecedent is true Therefore so is the Consequent He that denyeth the Antecedent 1. I suppose will consent that no man believes him 2. And would not sure have any more converse used in the world 3. And I would put it to the consideration of the contrary-minded whether if ordinarily there be no Evidence of Credibility in mens word and Professions be not to be taken as signs of the thing professed it were not best either to cut out mens tongues or else forbear teaching our children to speak and so let language perish from the earth For if it be ordinarily understood as meer lying it would seem the best way to extirpate it by this means 2. And I have also the consent and experience of the world on my side of the Credibility of the words even of common men in general 1. All Societies are established on the credit of mens words Princes and people enter their Covenants upon the credit and confidence in each others words 2. All affairs are managed on this Supposition The freest men in England do hold all their Estates and Lives upon the credit of the words and common fidelity that it is even in unregenerate men They are sufficient Witnesses at any Bar. Two of these by a false oath might put a man to death and yet how seldom are such things done Moreover how much doth all History depend upon the word of of man Yea how much of humane credit do we make use of to assure us that these which we now have are the same Scriptures that the Apostles writ and that they are uncorrupted and how far and that these only are Cannonical c. Argum. 5. It is most suitable to the End of Baptism that the Adult should be Baptized upon a bare Profession For Baptism is to be the Sign and means of their solemn Entrance into the Church and reception of a Sealed pardon of sin c. Now if you would stay till men prove their sincerity by their holy lives you will have them grow before they are well planted and give you full Evidence of Church membership before they are rightly entred Members And sure this is not like to be a regular course Argum. 6. My last Argument is from the continued Custom of the Church of God which with Paul was somewhat I confess the Churches after the Apostles daies did for divers ages prepare men long before they baptized them True they were Catechumeni before they were fideles or baptized But 1. That was not that they might have experience of the sanctity of their lives as the necessary qualification of the persons to be baptized but it was that they might instruct them in the Christian Faith that they might know what they did and be fit to make an acceptable Profession and then when they were prepared for such a Profession they took the bare Profession it self as the evidence of the truth of the thing professed still supposing that it was such a Profession as is before described and were not invalidate by contradiction or the like and therefore they did indeed expect that those that lived in notorious scandalous sins should stop their course and forbear the committing of them as well as profess Repentance for them because that it would have nullified their Profession if they had commited the sin even when they professed to repent of it Therefore Austin in his Tractate de fide operibus on that subject would have none baptized that were guilty of living with Concubines in fornication unless they would actually put them away and then promise to forsake them for the time to come but he did not advise that they should after all this delay yet longer to see whether they would make good that promise by their performance I conclude therefore that the Apostles and all the Church having so long accepted of a bare verbal Profession we must do so too Objection 1. If we shall believe the Professions of all or most men we shall believe that to be true which is not true and we shall believe more Lyes than Truths for there are more that make false Profession then a true and moreover we shall administer the Ordinances of God upon the credit of a Lye which seemeth a prophaning them Answ. 1. A known Lye you may not you cannot believe and should you administer the Ordinances upon a Profession which is notorious false you should prophane them 2. But if I believe a Lyer when I cannot prove him such that 's none of my sin nay its mâ— duty God made mens tongues to shew their minds and so I am to take their words but if they will abuse them to lying that 's their own sin and not mine 3. If you would believe no man till you are sure that he saith true then you must believe no man in the world For though you may know the thing to be true by other Evidence yet belâ—eving him can give you no certainly of thâ— truth for belief dependeth on the credit of the speaker Your Argument therefore tendeth to the destroying of all humane faith which is not to be endured 4. It is but with a humane faith that we believe them and therefore we believe them but as deceitful fallible men who may possibly deceive us It is not with such a faith as we owe to God wherein we conclude the thing revealed to be so unquestionably true as that it cannot possibly be false because God cannot Lye yea it is with a divers degree of Faith that
was in them that must judge Angels ver 3. was a special saving sanctification But such did this seem to Paul which he speaketh of as is exprest in the Text therefore there must needs be at least a Profession of this And because Mr. Blake tells me pag. 14â— how well I know that he hath proved his assertion I shall peruse all those Texts which he citeth to that end in his Book of the Covenants pâ—g 207 208. And first we must observe that the persons that he there himself speaketh of are Visible Professors as distinct from the Elect and Regenerate yea from those that are really Saints and shall be for heaven And he calleth them men separate for God and Dedicated to him But this is unedifying slippery dealing to confound two distinct causes toâ—â—ther He that is professedly Dedicated to God is a Professor of saving Faith He that is really and heartily Dedicated to â—od shall certainly be saved Here Mr. Blake pleadeth the cause that I do maintain and not that which he hath undertaken against me and the common truth I confess as well as he that Profession maketh Saints visible or by profession as hearty Dedication to God by faith maketh real or heart-Saints But how angry is he himself afterwards at this distinction of Real and Professed Saints as if that none but the justified were real Saints But what is all this to a Saint-ship consisting in the Profession of a faith short of that which is Justifying I shall take these last to be Mr. Blake's Saints and no Scripture Saints I mean Saints of his denomination till he have better proved that ever Scripture so calleth them The Texts cited by him are these Frst Psal. 16.3 Saints on earth And I yield to him that there are Saints on earth Then 1 Cor. 16.1 Heb. 16.10 where we read of Collections for the Saints and Administration to the Saints By these I doubt not but he may prove that more than the heart-Saints are called Saints but that is because they profess and seem to be heart-Saints These Texts are far from proving that there are any Saints that profess not saving sanctity I shall anon tell Mr. Blake who they were that Calvin and other Protestants do expound the word Saints of in such Passages as these though he hath already told us that he abhorreth the Doctrine which they maintain But this is a Practical case that Mr. Blake hath here put us upon the Communion of Saints doth not only consist in Conjunction in God's Worship but also in mutual relief and free communication of outward things as the Text which he here citeth doth declare Those therefore that are of his mind must communicate as well to the Professors of a common Faith as of a saving Faith But hear who they be that Pareus supposeth Paul to mean in loc Docemur vero ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sanctorum quam credimus etiam huc pertinere ut necessitatibus fratrum mutuò tangamur pro virili succurramus prompte fideliter sumus enim unius Corporis membra c. Nam Fidei charitatis unitas omnes in Christo Capite conjungit It is then the Members of Christ united in him and joyned in Faith and Love And those that Profess to be such are so to us Acts 26.10 Acts 9.2 When Paul shut up many of the Saints in prison and did much evil against them he knew no other way of distinction than an outward Profession c. saith Mr Blake Answ. Nor do we know means hearts nor think that Paul knew them But the Question is What they professed Whether saving Sanctity or a common Sanctity and Faith short of it He addeth We read of Churches of the Saints 1 Cor. 14.33 and they were taken in to be Church-Members as soon as they made profession as they ceased to be Jews or Pagans and took them to the way of Christianity as we see Act. 2. Act. 8.12 13 38. Ans. 1. They renounced the way of ungodliness and wickedness in general by a Profession of repentance as well as the way of Paganism and Judaiism in particular There were no Christians that Professed not Repentance towards God from dead works 2. We believe that there were Churches of the Saints and therefore that none should be of the Church that Profess not to be true Saints But prove if you can that there was ever either Church or Church-member called Saints in Scripture that had no either special Sanctity or a Profession of it You say nothing to prove that any were called Saints upon the Profession of a Faith short of saving Faith Emphaticum est saith Calvin in loc quod exprimit sanctorum acsi Ecclesias rite compositas à sinistra nota subduceret Of which see him fully on 1 Cor. 1.2 And as for those Acts 8. you cannot prove that any of them were either called Saints or Baptized without a Profession of a Justifying faith as shall further be shewed afterward M. Blake addeth The Epistles wrote to particular visible Churches are inscribed to Saints among which what some are read both the Epistles to the Corinthians yea what almost all are in some Churches read the Epistle to the Church of Sardis Answ. 1. No man in any of these Churches is called a Saint upon the Profession of any lower kind of faith but only on the presence or profession of saving faith 2. I have not heard a proof that the worst of these Churchâ—s had many members if any that were impenitent and obstinâ—te in any error or sin after admonition and so that were visibly destitute of the saving Sanctity which they did Profess 3. If such there were the Churches are commanded to cast them out and then they will be no longer numbred with the Saints 4. The Apostles may well call the whole Society Saints when part are really so in heart and the rest Profess it We commonly tell both Papists and Separatists that the Scripture thus denominateth the whole from the better part as a field is called a Corn-field though theree be more Tares then Corn and yet you will not call the Tares Corn No more will I call the ungodly Saints when I know them though I will call the Church Saints where they are and them while they Profess themselves Saints and I know not but they are so 5. If you can with patience but read what Clavin saith on 1 Cor. 1.2 and Peter Martyr to name no more now you will see that Doctrine which you abhor maintained by the Protestants and in what current it is that your opinion floweth Mr. Blake adds The Apostle tells us of the faith once delivered to the Saints Jude 3. the doctrine of Faith as is agreed on all hands all that profess that Doctrine are Saints Answ. All that cordially entertain that Doctrine are Saints in Heart All that profess so to entertain it are Saints by Profession while that Profession hath any validity But all that barely
his house and was baptized that same hour of the night or straight way It is here evident that he professed the same faith which Paul required or else the equivocation would make the text not intelligible And that which was required was a saving faith Acts 18 8. Crispus the chief ruler of the Synagouge believed on the Lord with all his house and many of the Corinthians hearing believed and were baptized Here we have two proofs that it is saving faith that is mentioned One in that it is called a believing on the Lord which expresseth saving faith Another in that it is the faith which related to the doctrine preached to them as is expressed in the word Hearing that which they heard they believed but they heard the promise as well as the History of the Gospel and they heard of the Goodness as well as the Truth and they heard Christ offered to them as their only Saviour for Paul never preached Christ but in this manner and to these ends even as might tend to their Justification and Salvation and it was a saving faith that he still exhorted men to Those in Acts 19.5 were baptized as Believers in Jesus Christ which is saving faith whether it were by John's Baptism or by Paul or others I now enquire not And what all the Churches were supposed to be to whom the Apostles wrote I have shewed before In a word I know of no one word in Scripture that giveth us the least intimation that ever man was baptized without the Profession of a saving faith or that giveth the least encouragement to baptize any upon another faith But before we proceed Mr. Blake's exceptions against some of these â—rguments from the forecited texts must come under consideration how little soever they deserve it pag. 166. To what I said from Mat. 28.29 I am very sory to hear the constitution of visible Churches to suffer the brand of making of counterfeit and half Christians Answ. For all that I will not be moved with pity to err because you are sorry to hear the truth 1. Church constitutions make not Christians of one sort or other but contain them when made 2. And my arguing was to prove that every faithful Pastor must intend the making of sincere Christians and not only counterfeit or half-Christians This is a truth that so good a man should not have been sorry to hear 3. If you mean that visible Churches contain not counterfeit and half-Christians you might have been sorry long before this to hear both Protestants and Papists say the contrary You add Its well known whose language it is that all charging duty on unregenerate persons is only to bring them to hypocrisie Answ. And if the end of that duty were no higher than to bring men to be counterfeit Christians they had not said amiss When we hear that charge it is for perswading men to hear pray c. for sincere faith But if I perswade men to become Christians and mean only the Professors of faith without the thing professed or the believing with another sort of faith then I might well be charged with perswading some to hypocrisie and the other to be half-Christians 2. You have not yet proved that Baptizing the Professors of a lower faith is the appointed means to bring them to saving faith You say In order to make men sincere Disciples they must be made visible professing Disciples Answ. If there be not a palpable equivocation you must mean that it is the same Discipleship which some have sincerely and others but visibly by profession and then it must be the same faith And then you say to this effect that in order to make men sincere they must profess seem to be so before they are so that is a lie is the appointed means to make the thing spoken become true But if according to the current of your doctrine you mean in the later branch of your distinction those only that profess another sort of faith and so equivocate in the word Disciples then I answ 1. Your Disciples are no Disciples nor so called once in Scripture 2. Nor is that any thing to baptism till you have proved that baptism also annexed to your Discipleship is a means appointed to bring them to a higher saving faith You tell us that men may be half Christians in order to be whole Christians Answ. But not baptized to that end nor must the Preacher intend the making of any half-Christians and no more What you mention out of Ames of taking stones out of the quarry to polish c. is nothing to the purpose Baptizing them is not polishing them that is preparing them for conversion according to the Institution but it s the placing polished stones in the building To polish them for the building is to make them true Disciples and not Professors of another kind of faith Pâ—g 168. When I say that to be Christs Disciples is to be one that unfeignedly takes him for his Master c. You answer that This is true as to the inheritance of Heaven but not as to the ininheritance of Ordinances The Jew outwardly was not thus qualified Repl. 1. Our question is what is a Disciple and what 's your answer to that unless you distinguish of two sorts and mean that another sort there are that inherite Ordinances 2. And then I say further some Ordinances are without the Church and those may have them that are no Disciples and fâ—r those proper to the Church none have right to them but who at least profess the foresaid Discipleship I wonder what your three sorts of Disciples will prove that do not profess to take Christ for their Master Next where Mr. Blake would have proved the Text not to be meant of sound Believers because they are such Disciples as a whole Nation is capable to be I answered that whole Nations are capable of saving faith and proved it to which he mentioneth the capacity of stones to be made Children As if men had no more then stones And as if God could not make all in a Nation believers by the same means us he makes some such He turns to the question what a Nation is capable of to what may be expected â—nd argueth as if they were capable of no more than we may eventually expect and saith this that is a doctrine so clear that proof needs not Where there never shal be any futurity we may well and safely speak of an incapacity Ans. As if omne possibâ—le esset futurum and men should have every thing good or bad which they are capable of A sad world when among learned Divines such sayings are Truths that need no proofs as if the contradictories of our Principles were become Principles It s added Capacity is vain when it is known coâ—fest that existence shall never follow Answ. Hath such an assertion bin usually heard among the worshippers of the Creator the admirers of his works If one of
by reading Dr Twiss and meditating of it and had in print so long ago professed these things whether this Learned man should after all this publish to the world that I am Amyraldus proselyte I speak but as to the truth of the report for as to the reputation of the thing I should think it a great benefit if I had the opportunity of sitting at the feet of so judicious a man as I perceive Amyraldus to be 10. Whether is Calovius a competent witness of the judgement of the Lutherans in general or a witness capable of dishonouring Amyraldus when he so unpeaceably and voluminously poureth out his fiery indignation against the moderate Lutherans themselves that are but willing of Peace under the name of Calixtians seeking to make them odious from the honorable name of Georgius Calixtus who went with them in that peaceable way 11. If it be David Blondell that he means when he saith of Daile's Book Obstetricante magno illìc Viro sed Armimianorum cultore and Blondell only prefaceth to it Whether any that hath read the Writings of Blondell and heard of his fame should believe this accusation or rather 12. Is it a certain Truth or a Calumny that is thus expressed of Dallaeus Certum est tamen hâc Apologiâ maluisse Arminianorum ordinibus inseri quà m sedem inter contrà -remonstrantes tenere And is it certain that Dr Molin knows the mind of Dallaeus better then he doth his own or is sooner then himself to be believed in the report of it 13. Whether the desire which he expresseth that Camero had been expelled and the words that he poureth forth against him do more dishonour Camero or himself And if that Article of Justification were sufficient ground of his condemnation and expulsion and consequently Olevian Scultetus Vrsinus Paraeus Piscator Alstedius Wendeline Gataker and abundance more should have tasted of the same sauce Whether these persecuting principles savour not of too high an esteem of their own judgements and tend not either to force an implicite faith in the Ministery or to depopulate the Church and break all in pieces And whether more credit is to be given to the judgement of this Learned man against Camero or to the general applause of the Learned Pious and Peaceable Divines of most Protestant Churches For instance such as B p Hall's who in his Peace-maker p. 49. saith of him that he was the Learnedst Divine be it spoken without envy that the Church of Scotland hath afforded in this last age 14. Whether this Learned man had not forgotten his former Triumph in the supposed unsuccessfulness of Amyralds Method and the paucity of his partakers or approvers when he wrote this in deep sorrow for the Churches of France Seriò ingemisco Patriae Ecclesiis in ea reformatis quod jam totos viginti annos Methodus Amyraldi impunè regna verit nemine intrà Galliam hiscere audente aut ullo vindice veritatis ibi exurgente do these words shew his desire of Peace or Contention in the Church 15. Whether it be truth that he saith that all the Divines of the Assembly at Westminster were against Amyraldus Method when Mr Vines hath often and openly owned Davenant's way of Universal Redemption and others yet living are known to be for it 16. Whether it be proved from the cited words of their Confession c. 8. § 5. that such was their judgement when they express no such thing And I have spoken with an eminent Divine yet living that was of the Assembly who assured me that they purposely avoided determining that Controversie and some of them profest themselves for the middle way of Universal Redemption 17. Is there one man in Oxford or Cambridge besides himself that believes his next words pari obelo confodiunt hanc Methodum quotquot sunt bodie Doctores Professores Oxoniae Cantabrigiae except on supposition that the foregoing words be untrue which pari relateth to 18. Is it probable that Dr Twiss was an enemy to that doctrine of Redemption which he hath so often asserted viz That Christ dyed for all men so far as to purchase them pardon and salvation on condition they would repent and believe and for the Elect so far further as to procure them faith and repentance it self which he hath oft in many Writings as to Mr Cranford's charge concerning his severe accusation of Dallaeus and judging his very heart to be guilty of such dissimulation as that he wrote not seriously but contrary to what he thought and that nothing could be more illiterate I shall not put the question whether it be probable that these words could pass from such a man because he is alive to vindicate himself if the report be false or to own it if true 19. Do all the contemptuous expressions of a Dissenter so much dishonour the judgement of Dallaeus as this Dissenters own praise of his former Writings doth honour it when he saith of him A quo nihil hactenus prodii◠quod non esset judicii acerrimi eruditionis reconditissimae dostrinae sanctissimae aut candidissimum pectus non referret in quo nulla suspicio malignitatis insideret multò minùs eâ aetate seriâ serâ erupturae cùm lenit albescens animos capillus This is enough to make a stranger conjecture that the man is not grown either such a fool as to err so grosly as is pretended or such a knave as to write in the matters of God against his own judgement And indeed he that will prove himself a wiser a much wiser man in these matters then Dallaeus Blondel Amyrald c. must bring another kind of evidence for the honor of his Wisdom then Dr Molin's Preface or Paraenesis is 20. Is it not an indignity to the dead which the living should hear with a pious indignation for this Learned man to feign that B p Vsher thought so contemptuously of Amyraldus Method Whatever he might say of him in any other respect it s well known that he owned the substance of his doctrine of Redemption The high praises therefore which Dr Molin doth give to this reverend Bishop do dishonour his own judgement that makes the Bishops doctrine so contemptible and gross The like dealing I understand some Arminian Divines I am loath to name them have used against this reverend man One of them of great note hath given out that he heard him preach for universal Redemption and afterwards spoke to him and found him owning it therefore he was an Arminian and I hear a Northamptonshire Arminian hath so published him in print O the unfaithfulness of men seeming pious The good Bishop must be what every one will say of him Though one feigneth him to be of one extream and the other of the other extream when alas his judgement hath been commonly known in the world about this 30 years to be neither for the one nor the other but for the middle way Do you call for proof If
their house yea or will not come to him considering he is made the Ruler over them in order to their spiritual good and they commanded to obey him Heb. 13.17 especially when a Ministers weakness or the multitude of his Parishioners and business will not permit him to seek after them I may conclude therefore that for all the word Dogmatical faith in the Title page this Gentleman is not like to be my Adversary To conclude the Jesuits themselves do witness that the Doctrin which I have in this Book maintained is the ordinary Protestant Doctrine while they concurr in opposing part of it under that title without our disowning it and tell the Iansenians that their Doctrine by which they make the Church to consist only of those that have charity and true Grace is the doctrine of the Protestants as Petavius de Lege Gratia passim p. 28. Auâ—â—enim unà cum charitate ac justitiâ necessario fidem amittebant quicunque lethale aliquod crimen incurrerant dut si fides in illis haerebat adhuc ea minimè suffiâ—iebat ut in Ecclesiae parte aliqua numerarentur Horum utrùm dÃxerint nihil ad haeresim Catholicae fidei â—abem interest Nam utrumque pro haeretico damnatum inter caetera Lutheri Calvinique ante hos Wiclefi nefaria dogmata jampridem Ecclesiasticâ censurâ notatum est Vid. p. 118. de Gratia initiali But it s in regard of the Catholick Church as invisible and in the properest acception that we own this to be our Doctrine As to the rest of Mr Blake's Book and also Dr Owen's Mr Roberts I have said as much as I now intend in the Conclusion of these Disputations If any Papists or other Adversaries shall conclude that we are not of the true Church or Religion because we thus differ and are of so many minds they may as well prove a man to be no member of an Hospital or no Patient to a Physitian because he is not in perfect health or none of the Scholars of such a Master because he knows not as much as his Teacher or as those of the highest form Or that Paul and Barnabas were not both of the true Church because they fell out even to a parting asunder Or that Peter Paul were not both of the true Religion because one of them was to be blamed and the other withstood him to the face because he walked not uprightly and according to the truth of the Gospel an high charge Gal. 1.11 12 13 14. yea they may as well conclude that no man is of the Church while he liveth on earth because while we are here we know but in part and see but darkly or enigmatically as in a glass 1 Cor. 13.9 11 12. and because we account not our selves perfect or to have attained but follow after and reach forth to the things which are before us and press toward the mark and where any is otherwise minded we wait till God reveal this to us Phil. 3.12 13 14 15. Or as if they would make us believe that there are not more differences among the Papists then with us But of these things I purposely speak in some Disputations against Popery which with this are in the Press And lastly for those that will convert the truths which I here maintain into the nourishment of divisions when their nature is to heal either making men Notoriously ungodly that are not and so rejecting them and their Children or withdrawing into separated Churches because such are Baptized or admitted to Communion of whose qualifications they are unsatisfied their guilt is upon themselves The doctrine is not made guilty by their abuse As the ignorant and unlearned have still wrested the Scripture to their own destruction so have the self-conceited and erroneous always misused the Truth it self to the disturbance of the Church It s matter of double Lamentation that yet there should be such Divisions and Parties and Distances when B p Hall's Peace-maker and Mr Burrough's Irenicum have been extant so long Were there but those two Books on that Subject extant in England they will heal or inexcusably condemn our distances And indeed they are Volumns of accusation against us proclaim the shame let me speak what must be spoken even of the Godly yea of the most of the Godly Ministers of these Nations that have yet done no more in this healing work And I intreat all those Ministers People that have time and any regard to my advice that they would diligently read over and over again those two books though they cast by twenty such as this for it And for those that will censure the following disputations as being not levelled to the inâ—erest of their several Parties I shall be no further solicitous to remove their offence And of the foresaid abusers of these reforming reconciling verities I now only crave the sober perusal conscionable Practice of Mr Burrough's 2d 3d 4th and 5th Propotion in in his Irenic Ch. 23 p 163. Had there been but that one healing Leaf or Page in England our wounds would be our shame as truly as they are our hurt and danger Mr Meade on Eccl. 5.1 pag 130 131. Offer not the Sacrifice of Fools for they know not that they do evil MY third Proposition was this That when Sacrifice was to be offered in case of sin yet even then God accepted not thereof primariò primarily and for it self as though any refreshment or emolument accrewed to him thereby as the Gentiles fondly supposed of their Gods but secondarily only as a testimony of the Conscience of the Offerer desiring with humble Repentance to glorifie him with a present by that rite to renew a Covenant with him For Sacrifice was Oblatio foederalis Now Almighty God renews a Covenant with or receiveth again into his favour none but the Repentant sinner and therefore accepts of Sacrifice in no other regard but as a token and effect of this Otherwise its is an abomination to him as whereby men professed a desire of being reconciled unto God when they had offended him and yet had no such meaning Hence God rejects all Sacrifices wherein there is no contrition nor purpose to forsake sin and keep his Commandments which are the parts of Repentance so is to be taken that Isa. 1. To what purpose is the multitude of your Sacrifices Bring no more vain Oblations Incense is an abomination to me And Isa. 62.2 3. And surely he that blesseth an Idol is so far from renewing a Covenant with the Lord his God that he breaks it so did they who without conscience of Repentance presumed to come before him with a Sacrifice not procure atonement but aggravate their breach According to one of these three senses are all passages in the Old Testament disparaging and rejecting all Sacrifices Literally to be understood namely when men preferred them before the greater things of the Law valued them out of their
any shall grounldesly so presume and be mistaken this makes not the Profession Null as to the use which the Church makes of it though it be Null as to the real internal Covenant of man with God or to the Benefits of such a Profession by any grant or Gift from God for in in foro Dei it is no Profession or worse 2. We must take nothing for a Profession but that which hath a seeming seriousness For if it be Notoriously or apparently ludicrous or in a scorn or not meant as it is spoken it is then apparently false and we are not to believe apparent falshoods 3. It must seem to be voluntary or free I deny not but some force may stand with a valid Profession but that is only such a force as is supposed to prevail with the Heart it self and not only with the tongue when the heart is against it If any should say to a Jew If thou wilt not Profess thy self a Christian I will presently run thee through with my sword the words that should be forced by this threat are not to be taken for a true Profession when it is apparent that they are meerly forced by fear So that which done in a passion of Anger or the like contrary to the ordinary prevailing bent and resolution of the heart is not to be taken as a voluntary and valid Profession 4. It must be a Profession not prevalently contradicted by word or deed Otherwise still it is an apparent or notorious lie which no man can be bound to believe If a man say in one breath that he believeth in Christ and in the next will say that he doth not believe in him he nulleth his own profession by a revocation and if he revoke it in the direct sense it is all one as if he did it in the same terms As if he say that he believeth in Christ but withall that he believeth him to be but a man or a Prophet or not to have died to ransom us from our sins c. so if he should say I am a Christian but yet I love the world and the flesh more then Christ the same must be said of a Practical contradiction which is effectual to invalidate a Verbal Profession If a man should profess to the Prince that he honoureth him and when he hath done should spurn at him or spit in his face or if a man should profess that he loveth you and desireth your safety and withall shall discharge a Pistol at you or run at you with his sword I leave it to your selves whether he be to be believed Yet some Contradiction there may be which may not nullifie a Profession As when the terms of Contradiction seem not to be understood by him that useth them or not to be meant in the contradicting sense or when he seem's not to discern the contradiction but thinks both may consist and seems to hold the truth practically and so contradicts it speculatively or ignorantly or when the contradiction is more weak and not seemingly prevalent as I believe Lord help my unbelief 5. When a man hath utterly forfeited the credit of his word the Profession of that man must not be meerly verbal but practicall This is all clear in the Laws of Nature When a man may be justly said to have forfeited the credit of his bare word is a matter of consideration The common reason and practice of men is against trusting a perjur'd mans bare word till he give sufficient evidence of his repentance for that perjury And the like may be said of one that hath often violated Promise and given no Evidence of any effectual change upon his heart but that still he hath the same disposition The Novatians thought that those who lapsed hainously after the Baptismal Profession were not again to be absolved and admitted into the communion of the Church but they did not exclude them from Gods pardon as is commonly believed to them Clemens Alexandrinus and others of those ancient Churches do seem to exclude all from pardon of sin after twice or thrice offending but I suppose they meant it only of hainous sin and of pardon in foro Ecclesiae and not of pardon in foro Dei a distinction that was not then detested The truth is the temper and quality of persons and the nature of the fault and many circumstances may so vary the case that it is not the same Number of promise-breakings or sins after promises that will prove the forfeiture of each sinners Credit Ordinarily in case of gross hainous sin if a man have oft broke his promise his bare word is no more to be taken but an actual Reformation must prove the validity of it But there are some cases in which once or twice breach of promise may forfeit credit as to the Church and some cases wherein more then three or four brecahes may not do it But as for an Infidel that newly comes to the Profession of the Faith or a notorious ungodly man that newly comes to the Profession of godliness we must take their first profession though their lives were never so vicious before because though they have oft committed other sins yet not this of Covenant-breaking with God and they seem to be recovered from their former unconscionableness Perhaps some one will say that if all this be to be look'd after before the validity of a Profession can be discerned then this is an uncertain Rule for us to proceed by in administring the Sacraments for Ministers will be uncertain when all these qualifications are found in mens Professions Besides that it puts tyrannizing power into Ministers hands which you tell Mr. â—ombes of in your book of Infant-Baptism Answ. I have there shewed that the danger is greater in the Anabaptists way of using this power than of ours 2. This objection is as much against them that are for the title of a Dogmatical faith as for us that require the Profession of a saving faith For they cannot be certain of their lower faith it self and therefore must take up with the profession of it and if they will not require all these qualifications forenamed of that Profession then they may as well admit professed Jews and Heathens and they will openly subject Gods ordinances to profanation 3. Because it is a variable case and requireth Judgement in the Administrators therefore hath God made it a considerable part of the office and work of his Ministers to Judge rightly of mens profession that they may discern the meet from the unmeet and therefore hath he required so much prudence and piety in Ministers that they might be meet to judge in such cases To bear these Keyes and wisely and faithfully to discern who are to be admitted and who to be excluded is no small part of their Trust and Power and Work The great necessity of Church Officers and the nature of its Government would be the better understood if this were well considered It is not a
the will though its true that the wicked have many difficulties in the way 2. They profess now that they are not wicked but converted therefore you must not take it for granted that they are wicked because they were so unless you can prove it and if you prove them wicked when they profess the contrary then indeed you invalidate their profession but not by proving that they were formerly wicked Object 8. But though all this hold of Heathens or Infidels newly pretending to be converted and so coming for Baptism yet it will not hold of professing Parents that bring their children to Baptism or of such as come to the Lords Supper For such have been long in the Church already and therefore must follow the truth of their Profession by a holy conversation Answ. I grant this and withall that the Pastor should be as diligent as he can to know the conversations of his people But withall I still say 1. That as it was sufficient at his first admittance that he made a verbal Profession so the same Obligation lyeth on the Minister and people to believe his word still till he forfeit his Credit as it did at the first A Verbal profession is still as Obligatory to us for belief though more be required in him to second it 2. And therefore I say that if a Minister through the numero usness of his flock or want of ability or opportunity or other causes yea culpable in himself shall be ignorant of the lives of his people he is to credit their Profession and not on that account to deny them Gods Ordinances 3. They therefore that will exclude any for want of a holy life must bring a certain Proof of his unholiness of life for they can require no more Proof from him of his holiness but that he professeth it And so I grant that as he professed Repentance and Faith at first entrance so he is now to profess that he continueth therein and walketh holy before God And if he do but say that he doth this no man can reject him till he first disprove him supposing him to be a member of his pastoral charge or otherwise obliged to administer it to him if fit Those therefore that will have any mans children kept from baptism for their parents unholiness or persons kept from the Supper must not expect that men bring proof to them of their holiness beyond their profession of it but must deal by them as by other notorious offenders even admonish them of their unholy Carriages and if he hear not take witness and then call the Church and if he hear not the Church then he must he rejected and not denyed the Communion of the Church upon every mans uncharitable presumptions or so heavily punished before he be judged or heard 4. And they must know that it is hainous evils indeed that will prove a Professor certainly ungodly and therefore they must look well to the validity of their proof Obj. 9. But they have forfeited the Credit of their words by their Covenant-breaking and wicked lives Answ. It must be a breach of the Covenant as owned by themselves at age that must be sufficient to prove that 2. And that more then once For once failing doth not forfeit the Credit of a man's word 3. And these violations must be proved and not barely affirmed 4. Yea it must be proved that he doth at the present or hath of late lived in violation of former covenants Otherwise Repentance manifested by Reformation repaireth his Reputation Obj. 10. The text cited in the following Disputation proveth that the Apostles took all the members of the Church to be Saints Adopted Justified c. But we cannot think thus of all that now Profess themselves Christians without being unreasonable Answ. Sometimes the Apostles denominate the whole Church from the better part as we call that a corn-field which hath many tares And sometimes being not heart-searchers nor knowing the falshood of Particular men's Professions they speak of them according to their Profession which the Law of nature and of Christ commandeth us to believe though only with such a humane faith as may be mixt with much jealousie and fear of the contrary concerning many of them which the same Apostles also frequently manifested But yet as they must believe charitably so must they speak charitably of the Professors of true Christianity Besides those Objections many particular Texts are urged by some to prove that it is only the Regenerate and such as shall be saved that are to be added to the Church which I shall not now stand to answer particularly but only give this general answer to them all If they mean only such as are Really sanctified and sincere or elect then we must admit none because we know not one man to be such but if they mean only those that seem to be such I have proved already that their own Profession of what is in their hearts out of our sight is to be taken for such a seeming and doth qualifie them to be visible members of the Church For as the Matter of the Church as Invisible is true Beleivers and Saints so the Matter of the Church as visible is the Professors of that faith and holiness and their seed Besides what hath been said in general Arguments to prove the Proposition I had thought to have gone over many particular Arguments from several Texts of Scripture partly giving us examples of such as by Gods approbation have taken Professions as credible Evidences of the things Professed and partly in precepts requiring a charitable credulity towards our brethren but because I conceive the last so plan as to need no more I wâ—ll forbear this till I hear that it seemeth necessary But yet there 's one other Objection to be met with Those that feel this Proposition pull down the Principles of schism or unjust separation which they are engaged in or inclined to do Object that if a bare Profession may admit to baptism then it may admit to the Lords Supper and to the Priviledges of â—hurch-members and so Church-Ordinances and Priviledges shall be dispensed upon bare words and formalities and so made nothing of To which I answer Are you able to search and know the heart can you discern sincerity by an infallâ—ble judgment I know none but Mr. Trask that pretended to it And if you cannot and know you cannot then you must be found to take up with fallible signs your selves And those signs you may as well call meer formalities as you do this in question 2. And if we must needs take up with fallible signs is it not better to follow the Scripture examples proposed to our imitation then to frame a new way of our own especially when the Law of nature and nations doth consent with Scripture and the contrary opinion proceedeth from a dividing principle and tendeth to division 3. Make as diligent search as you can after the sincerity of your flock
as to their more profitable use of Ordinances but make no other conditions of their Right then God hath made 4. It is onely a Profession that 's serious voluntrary not contradicted prevalently by word or life which you must take as is before described And do you take it to be so unreasonable a matter to believe a man fide humana who speak's of his own heart which another cannot see when you can bring no evidence to disprove his words If you know any thing by his life that certainly proves his Profession false admonish him of it in the order that Christ hath directed you to till he either hear the Church or be rejected by the Church or at least by not hearing the Church do give you cause to take him as a Heathen or Publican but be not so much against the Scripture and 2. All discipline that ever the Church hath used And against common justice and reason as to do this by men on your own private judgement without evidence and a just tryal and once hearing them speak for themselves and many do that will unchurch a whole Parish and gather a new one on supposition of the invalidity of a bare Profession and on supposition that most are ignorant and ungodly before they have ever once accused them particularly or dealt with or excluded any of them in the way that Christ appointeth If I certainly knew that in this Parish there were 4000 unregenerate Persons and not 400 or 100 truly regenerate and yet knew not particularly which the unregenerate Persons were I ought not to cast out one man from the Church upon any such account Object But with what comfort can the Godly have communion with the societies that are so mixt with multitudes of the ungodly Answ. If they do not their duty in admoishing the offenders and labouring to heal the diseased members and to reform the Church in Christs appointed way Mat. 18.17 Then you may well ask With what comfort can such Professors live in the sinful neglect of their own duty But if they faithfully do their own part how should the sins of others â—e their burden unless by way of common compassion And how have Gods servant in all ages of the Church to this day received comfort in such mixt Communion These Objectors shew that they seek more of their comfort in men then is meet or that they discomfort themselves with their own fancies when they have no cause of discomfort given them from without but what must be born to the end of the world by al that wil walk in the waies of Christ. Object But it is the Communion of Saints that we believe and must endeavour Answ. True internal spiritual Communion with hearty Saints and External communion with professed Saints For real Saints in heart are unknown to us Ob. But the greater part do not so much as Profess to be Saints Answ. They that profess to believe in God the Father Son and Holy Ghost and to renounce the world the Flesh and the Devil do profess to be Saints so do they that profess to repent of all sin and to be willing to live according to the word of God But I meet but with very few that will not profess all this Object They will say these words indeed but in the mean time they will scorn at godliness or disclaim it by their lives Answ. Those that do so must be dealt with in Christs way as Church-members till either they hear the Church or be rejected for their impenitency but you must not dare upon this account to unchurch whole Parishes nor ordinarily any one Person that hath not been dealt with in the order that Christ hath appointed To conclude this Disputation I find that the two things before mentioned are great occasions of the proneness of many godly people to schism The one is because they do not understand that Christ hath so contrived in it the Gospel that every man shall be either the Introducter of himself by Profession or the Excluder of himself by the rejection of Christianity And so that all Church admissions or rejections shall be but the consequents of his own choice that the chief comfort or the blame may be upon himself And this is partly from the admirable freedom and extensiveness of Gospel Grace which the sons of Grace should glorifie and rejoyce in and not murmur at and dishonour and partly from the wise dispensations of our Legislator that he may deal with men on clear grounds in their absolution or condemnation before all the world 2. The other cause of the schismatical inclination of some godly people is the great mistake of too many in confining all the fruits of Christs death and the mercies or graces of God to the Elect and so not considering the difference that there ever was and will be between the visible Church of Professors and the invisible Church of true Believers Alas Brethren in the name of Christ let me speak it to your hearts do you grudge a few common Priviledges to common Professors when you have the best and choysest part your selves you have Christ himself and do you grudg them the name of Christians or the bare symbole or signs of his body and blood You have sincerity of faith and Repentance and answerably you have true Remission and Reconciliation They have the profession of Faith and Repentance and do you grudg them the empty signs of a Remission which they have lost by their hypocrisie and Unbelief You have Inward communion with Christ in the Spirit as you have Inward faith Do you grudg an Externâ—l communion with the Church to them that have the External profession of Faith O Remember that the Net of the Gospel bringeth good and bad to the shore and the tares must grow with the wheat till harvest and then is the time that you shall have your desire The second Disputation Quest. Whether Ministers must or may Baptize the Children of those that Profess not saving faith upon the Profession of any other faith that comes short of it IT may seem strange that after 1625. years use of Christian Baptism the Ministers of the Gospel should be yet unresolved to whom it doth belong yet so it is And I observe that it is a Question that they are now very solicitous about And I cannot blame them it being not only about a matter of Divine appointment but a practical of such concernment to the Church I shall upon this present occasion give you my thoughts of it as briefly as I can which contain nothing that I know of which is new or singular but the Explication and Vindication of the commonly received truth We here suppose that Baptism is still a needfull Ordinance of Christ and that Infants are to be Baptized and that Ministers are the persons that should Baptize them so that it is none of our work at this time either to defend the Ordinance it self against the Seekers nor the
Chuâ—ch These are both so groundlesly pleaded and by so few that are neer us that I think it not meet to trouble you with them any more 3. A condition pretended to be necessary is A true Justifying faith This also is a mistake but yet how far it is necessary to a true Right I shall open anon none of these three are meant by us in the question for these are not short of saving faith though we exclude the necessity of these as is said 4. Another qualification pleaded necessary and sufficient to the ends expressed in the question is A Profession of a saving Faith which is it that we are to defend 5. A fifth claim is laid upon the pretended sufficiency of a Faith short of Justifying But you will perhaps say what faith is that Those words tell us what Faith it is not viz. It is not justifying faith but they tel us not what faith â—t is To which I must say I know not my self nor can I learn of all the writings of those that go that way so perplexed and confounded or uncertain are they saying sometime one thing and sometime another But I shall have a fitter opportunity to enquire further into their mind or words anon 6. Another claim is laid upon the pretended sufficiency of the Profession of a faith short of that by which we are juâ—â—ified I say the Profession as distinct from that faith it self which the former claim made mention of Some other there are that yet go lower and think we may Baptize any that consent to be Baptized though they profess no faith at all nor their Parents nor pro-Parents neither And there have been so some foolish as to think that it is a work of charity to catch them and Bapâ—ize them whether they will or not But it is not our present business to deal with these The great adversary that we have here to deal with is the Papists And I shall in few words shew you part of their doctrine which we are now to oppose Their great Fundamental error on which they build their tottering Babel and tyrannical usurpation is this that the Catholike â—hurch is one Political society united in one visible head and governed by those that hold their power from him or at least are ruled by him and are conjoyned under these overseers in one Profession of faith and use of Sacraments Bellarmines words are these De Eccles. lib. 3. Nostra autem sententia est ecclesiam unam tantum esse non duas et illam unam et veram esse coetum hominum ejusdem Christianae fidei Professione et eorundem sacramentorum communione colligatum sub regimine legitimorum Pastorum ao praecipue unius Christi in terris vicarii Romani Pontificis And he addeth afterward Hoc interest inter sententiam nostram et alias omnes quod omnes aliae requirunt internas virtutes ad constituendum aliquem in ecclesia et propterea ecclesiam veram invisibilem faciunt nos autem et credimus in ecclesia invâ—niri omnes virtutes fidem spem charitatem et caeteras tamen ut aliquis aliquo modo dicipossit pars verae ecclesiae de qua scripturae loquuntur non putamus requiri ullam internam virtutem sed tantum externam professionem fidei et sacramentoruÌ„ communionem quae sensu ipso percipitur Ecclesia enim est coetus hominum ita visibilis palpabilis ut est coetus populi Romani vel Regnum Galliae aut respublica Venetorum Yet other Papists be not so strict with us but that they will distinguish between the professing Church and the true believing Church And Bellarmine in the next words citeth a passage as Austins which he commendeth which maketh Faith Hope and Charity to be the soul of the Church and the external profession of faith and use of sacraments to be the Body of it and some persons to be in it in one respect only some in the other only and some in both They confess indeed that of duty men should be found Believers at the first but ordinarily they say that is not to be expected and therefore they are first to be entered into the Church this visible Church by Baptism that this may be a means to bring them higher and by this entrance they are put under right guides and into the true body and so are fed with true ordinances yea with Christs body and blood and so are in the way to a true spiritual state The terms on which they must be admitted they say into this Political Church which is not the holiest of all is a Profession of faith and a consent to be a member of the society and to be under those Pastors and use those ordinances in order to further growth so that these they suppose to have a true faith and to be such as have right to this Church state but yet to be but in the way to a special saving faith for theirs is but fides informis or meer faith which is onely Assent say they joyned with the foresaid consent to live in a Church state but when Love is added then it is fides charitate formata and then they are become of the true spiritual society and have part in the soul as well as in the body of the Church so that though they desire fidem formatam in all yet it is not to be expected that so much as a Profession of it be exacted of those that enter into the first order by Baptism but when they enter into a retired monastical life then it must be expected and it is found in all that are fully justified For say they Baptism which entreth men into the visible Church doth put away their original sin and justifie them that is change them in tantum viz. from Heathenism or infidelity if they lay in it before but it doth not justifie them from their more spiritual latent sins such as lie in the heart and keep out the power of Grace but it is the work of special Grace which is given upon the good use of their Church state and Ordinances that doth this by giving them fidem formatam with charity and hope Among all this there is some truth and some error we confess that the Church is one Political society or Republâ—ck but not headed by men but only by Christ the several particular Churches being as so many distinct corporations that all make up this one Republick and are conjoyned internally by faith love and obedience to the same Lord and laws and externally by the use of the same confession worship c. and holding correspondency and brotherly communion as far as occasion and natural capacity shall enable them but not united in one visible frame of policy so as to be under the same Governors some as subordinate and one person or a General council being the supream No more then all the schools in England or in the world must have such a Political constitution and Government
Godly may both scorn in press and pulpit persecute and kill each other As one Godly man may persecute another for some Truths and Duties which he knows not to be such so in particular it is possible that such may imagine that private Meetings tend to schism or proud singularity and so may deride them Or he may by strangeness to them entertain some false report of the stricter Professors of Religion as if they were proud humorous schismaticks disobedient and differed only in these things and not in true piety from others And I believe I have known some in former times that were such who had such thoughts as these of all the Godly that were not conformable and of others that used any private Meetings living where they had little acquaintance with any of them save two or three that by scandals increased their prejudice and hearing no better language of them these persons would reproach them as bitterly as most that ever I heard and yet themselves lived not only uprightly to men but so piously that they seemed to hate all profaness and spent more time in secret prayer and reading then most I have known It is not therefore all scorn or persecution of Godly persons Doctrines or Duties that will prove a man to be Notoriously Graceless or Ungodly But again left any Ungodly person take occasion of presumption from all this let me add this much more 1. Though another cannot know such to be certainly ungodly yet they may know it by themselves who know their own ends and reasons better then we can do And alas the souls of such are never the safer because we are bound to judge charitably of them This is but to prevent our wronging them but it will not prevent their damnation 2. Though we know them not to be certainly ungodly yet God doth and it is he that must judge them And therefore he will put many a thousand out of heaven whom we may not put out of the Church When the Tares and Wheat are so mixed that we cannot pluck up the Tares without plucking up the Wheat that is in doubtfull inevident cases there we must let both grow till the time of harvest both in forbearing persecution by the sword and Excommunication but then God will sever the wicked from the just and gather out of his Kingdom all things that offend and them that work iniquity and cast them out into the lake of fire 3. And our selves may see cause enough to bewail the misery of many as too probable whom yet we cannot certainly conclude to be miserable yea we have cause to call them out of our communion of which more anon I must therefore intreat two sorts of Readers that they do not mis-interpret these foregoing passages First The Vngodly are desired to beware that they pervert not this to their own delusion nor to the opening of their mouths against the teachings and censures of the Church I cannot but fore-see that such will be prone to draw venom out of necessary truths and to say I may be godly and be saved though I pray not in my family though I swear or be drunk c. But such must know 1. That they cannot be saved if in the bent of their lives they live after the flesh and if God be not dearer to them than all the world and if their hearts be not more on heaven than on earth and if the main aim and business of their lives be not for God and the life to come nor can they be Godly or saved unless they truly hate their sin and long to be rid of it and are willing to be at the cost and labour of using Gods means by which they may be rid of it unless in the bent of their lives they overcome gross sin and live not in it and groan under their infirmities desiring to be rid of them feeling the need of a Saviour and flying to his blood for pardon and to his word and spirit for cure All this must be in every one at age that will be saved Now though we may be uncertain of a mans ungodliness by one or more such fals as Peters or Davids were when the bent of his life appeareth to be holy yet if the bent of your lives be carnal and you have not all this that I have now mentioned then you may be sure that you are Graceless though you never commit any scandalous sin much more when you live in them 2. And remember that you may know your own hearts and secret lives when we cannot It s no comfort to you therefore that a Minister is not certain of your Gracelesness if you be indeed Graceless what if we must hope the best who know not the worst alas this will be no relief to your souls Nor should you be offended if Ministers in preaching and personal reproof do speak terror to you for all this For 1. they preach to you as described in a graceless state and not named 2. They must tell you what every sin deserves and whither it leads and tell you of the sad probabilites of your damnable state though they have not a certainty 2. I foresee also that some Godly people will think that these passages though true may accidentally harden the wicked in their sin and therefore that this will do more harm than good To whom I say 1. That the wicked will draw evil from the most certain truths and all must not be concealed which they will abuse 2. Yet I must confess that my own heart made this Objection which caused me to think this Paper my self unfit to be published and so I did this two years lay it by And had I not understood that from the Coppy which I sent one friend so many are communicated and at such a distance into the hands of strangers and that somewhat defective and had I not been acquainted that they will print it if I will not it might have yielded still to this Objection for ought I know for had I been left to my own choice I should have laid it in the dark Now for the Affirmative I will shew you whom we may take for Notoriously ungodly and then I will shew you whom we must judge probably to be godly and whether we must not exclude some persons and refuse their Infants who yet are not Notoriously ungodly 1. A man that not inconsiderately or in a Temptation but deliberately and obstinately denieth any fundamental Article of the Christian faith is notoriously ungodly for he cannot have a godly heart that excludeth the necessary principles of Godliness from his head I mean those Truths without which there is no salvation for surely without them there can be no Grace He that denieth thus the God head or the Goodness Wisdom or Power of God or the Incarnation Holiness Death Ransom of man thereby Resurrection Rule or Judgement of Jesus Christ or the everlasting life that he giveth to Believers or the
may receive without recourse to the Law of God in Specie Without Scripture it may be known that a Precept is not the same thing with a Promise or Deed of Gift and that a Power of Administring to one that demandeth is different from a Power to demand it or any just Title that may warrant a claim 4. If this will not serve you I add Lex distinguit ergò distinguendum est 1. You confess that a Dogmatical Faith is necessary to our Title And what is that equally Coram Deo Exclesiâ If a Jew say I will go and deride Mr. Blake I will tell him to day that I believe in Christ and I will be Baptized by him and tomorrow I will scorn Christ to his face will you say that this man hath equall Right Deo judice as he hath Ecclesia judice I will not be too confident of my understanding your minde but upon consideration I think you will not 2. Matth. 22. and Luke 14. The servants had power to bring in by perswasion that person that had not on the wedding garment though they were to perswade him to come as a meet guest and so with that garment yet the performance they left to himself But yet he had no warrant for his access in that condition and he meets there with a judgement of God which was distinct from that of the Church which with a Friend how camest thou in hither c. left him speechless Nor would it have saved him to have said Lord I was taught by learned Divines that there is no Forum Dei to judge of my Right to Sacraments besides the Forum Ecclesiae and I had Right in the judgement of the Church and therefore so I have in thine And thousands will finde this Plea prove uneffectual if they shall be encouraged to use and trust to it 3. 1. Cor. 11.31 32. I think there is a judgement of the Lord mentioned against unworthy receivers that is not the same with the judgement of the Church Nor is it my opinion that it was the Churches judgement which laid some of them in sickness some in weakness and some asleep God took cognisance of mens not examining themselves and eating and drinking unworthily which was an eating and drinking damnation to themselves and of their not discerning the Lords Body and that further then the Church did 4. It hath till now been taken for granted that there is a twofold forum or judgement exprest in Mat. 16.19 and Mat. 18.18 Where binding on earth and binding in heaven are distinguished and loosing on earth and loosing in heaven The Treatisers that have wrote of the power of the Keyes and the Expositors upon this Text have not thought that these two were but one nor did offer so injuriously that I say not reproachfully to expound Christs words If you say that though they be not the same yet they agree for that shall be bound or loosed in heaven which is bound or loosed on earth I answer that is quando clavis non errat When the Church judgeth justly as the truth is For God will not judge erroneously or unjustly because man doth so Yea though the Churches error be inculpable as if they absolve or excommunicate a man upon the full testimony of false witness c. yet God will not therefore judge as they Though he will justifie their act of judging yet he will not censure the true Title of the person to communion accordingly nor binde or loose in heaven according to any mistaking sentence Many other Texts do sufficiently evidence this distinction But because Mr. Blake doth pag. 187. and often so peremptorily renounce this distinction in this controversie I shall yet add one or two Reasons to shew the necessity of it Arg. 1. If the judgment of God the judgment of the Church concerning mens Right and claim here be all one then either the Churches judgement is infallible in this matter or Gods judgement is fallible But neither is the Churches judgement infallible nor Gods judgement fallible Therefore they are not both one The force of the consequence is evident And for the Minor 1. To say Gods judgement is fallible even that which he doth himself immediately exercise of which we speak is to Blaspheme 2. To say that mans judgement here is infallible is to speak 1. That which cannot be proved 2. More than the Papists yea more than the Italian Papists say of the Popes For Bellarmine himself will confess him fallible about such personal causes as these whether such a mans cause be good or bad c. 3. If the judgement of man be in this case infallible then no man was ever wrongfully admitted by the Church and so the argument would hold à facto ad jus such a one was admitted therefore he had Right to claim and Receive But the consequent is intolerable For 1. It hindereth all hypocrites in the world that should believe it from repenting of their unjust claim and Receiving and justifieth them all Coram Deo but sure it will prove an uneffectual justification 2. The same it doth by all Ministers that ever administred the Sacraments It teacheth them to justifie themselves as infallible and to disclaim Repentance for any mistake He that dare tell all the Ministers in the world that they never gave a man a Sacrament without Right Coram Deo or all the Receivers in the world that they never received it without such Right as will warrant their claim and Receiving will shew whether the weakness even of good mens arguings may seduce Moreover if the Minister be infallible in this case then either by an ordinary ability of discerning or by extraordinary priviledge The latter is not pretended by any Protestants or Papists that I know of The former cannot be said unless it be also said 1. That all other men as wise be Infallible as well as they 2. And that therefore the case hath such evidence that no Minister can possibly be mistaken in it But this cannot reasonably be said For 1. If an Infidel or Pagan come in scorn to be Baptized and profess a Dogmatical faith when he hath it not the Minister cannot know his heart 2. And if Mr. Blake will say that the very scornful words of such a Professing Pagan are a sufficient title coram Deo yet the Minister may possibly mistake his words and think he saith I do believe when he saith I do not believe 3. Or the Minister may easily mistake the extent and nature of Mr. Blakes Dogmatical faith and think that the Infidel doth profess that Dogmatical faith when it is but some faith yet lower than it or but part of it Furthermore if Ministers be thus infallible then none of their Acts can be Nullities but the contrary is true and hath been the Judgement of the Church expressed in many Councils de rebaptizandis non legitime baptizatis quoad essentiam baptismi And this would put us hard to the
while he was destitute of the faith which by his action was professed Receiving the Sacrament as a Sacrament is an actual profession oâ— faith And you can never prove that Christ commanded Juda to lye by professing the faith which he had not but only that he commanded him at once to Believe and thus profess it He that will have men compelled to come in to the Church intendeth that they must bring a wedding garment or else they shall hear how camest thou hither You apprehend John Timpsons words to be apposite which imply a contradiction or touch not the point If the right Object be really believed even that which is the full Object of saving faith that very belief is saving and proveth the holiness of the person To the Twelfth I answer General and special Grace I resolvedly maintain But when will you prove that it is a part of General Grace to have a proper Title given by God to the Sacraments which seal up the pardon of sin actually where there is such Title To have the universal conditional promise or covenant ex parte Dei enacted and promulgate and offered the world with many incitements to entertain it is General Grace But so is not either our actual heart-covenanting the Remission of our sin nor such a proper Title to the sign of both When you tell us of the Worlds Potential and the visible Churches actual Interest in General Grace you give us pardon the truth a meer sound of words that signifie nothing or nothing to purpose You cannot call it General Grace Objectively as if the Saints had a particular Objective Grace the rest a General For Generals exist not but in the individuals It is therefore the General conditional promise or gift which you must mean by General Grace This is to the world without indeed but an offer But is it any more to any of the unbelievers or unregenerate within what can be the meaning of an actual Interest in a conditional promise which all the hearers have not and yet is short of the true actual Interest of them that perform the condition I feel no substance in this notion nor see any light in it I confess there is a certain possession that one such man may have more then others but as that is nothing to proper Title so it is not the thing that Sacraments are to seal I have not Mr. Hudsons book now by me but your solution by the two sives had need of some sifting It s one thing to ask what is the end of Sacraments quoad intentionem praecepti and another thing to tell what eventually they produce I do not believe that the sive that brings men into a state of Grace is in the hands of God only so as if he used not Ministers thereto Ministers are said in Scripture to convert and heal and deliver and save men To your 13th and 14th and last I answer That we easily confess that the covenant under the new Testament is better than the old but this makes nothing for you nor do you prove that it doth the force of the first section of your book as it may be the matter of an Objection I have answered before As to your Authorities I say 1. Mr. Vines saith nothing which proveth any approbation of your opinion whether Mr. Burgess do I leave to himself for I know not certainly All that I know of since Dr. Ward is Mr. Blake Mr. Humphrey and John Timpson and John Timpson Mr. Humphrey and Mr. Blake Your 3d and 4th Sections need no more answer I think than what is already given You needed not these pillars to support that point which is the design of your Treatise To these I find you add another the greatest of all pag. 611. which you say sinks deep into you but if reason will do it I will pluck it up by the roots partly by desiring you to peruse what I have twice or thrice before answered to it and partly by adding as followeth That 1. If a man by mistaken doubtings shall keep himself away from a Sacrament that doth not destroy his Title to it or the Grace signified nor is it any ones fault but his own I therefore deny your Minor It is not this doctrine that cuts off doubting Christians from the Sacrament but themselves that do culpably withdraw To your Prosyllogism I deny the Major that doctrine which concludes it sin in the doubtful Christian to Receive doth not cut him off For it concludeth it not his sin to Receive in it self but to Receive doubtingly so that it is not Receiving but Doubting that is properly his sin and withall we say that it is his Duty to Receive and his greater Sin not to Receive than to Receive And though an erring Conscience doth alwaies ensnare and so create a necessity of sinning which way soever we go till it be rectified yet it s a greater sin to trespass against a plain precept than against an erring Conscience in many cases But the main stress lyeth on your proof which is from Rom. 14.23 Whatsoever is not of faith is sin But I could wish you would consider it better before you press home that Text to the same sence against all other duties as you do against this lest you leave God but little service from the Church 1. It is one thing to doubt about indifferent matters such as Paul speaks of as eating c. For there he is condemned if he eat because he is sure it is lawful to forbear but not sure that it is lawful to eat But press not this upon us in case of necessary duty If God command me to pray praise or communicate my doubt will not justifie my forbearance and though it entangle me in sin it cannot disoblige me from duty but I shall sin more if I forbear You say If it be sin for the unregenerate to Receive then cannot the doubting Christian be perswaded and consequently sinneth Ans. True but that 's not long of the doctrine but of his error and it is the case of all practical errors which will not therefore justifie you in blaming the doctrine it s the unavoidable effect of an erring Conscience And again I say he sinneth more in forbearing Whereas you conclude this Argument to be convincing I have told you before why it convinceth not me but to your selves I would ask whether it do not also convince you that your own doctrine is as unsufferable For I am past doubt that not only most Christians but even most doubting Christians have more knowledge that they have true justifying faith than the rest of the world have that they have true Dogmatical faith Though the wicked doubt less because they believe and regard it less yet indeed they have not only far more cause to doubt of the truth of their Dogmatical faith but have less true knowledge of it At least many of them it s thus with when so many true Christians do as much