Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	profess_v	visible_a	1,998	5	9.1242	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85043	The churches and ministery of England, true churches and true ministery. Cleared, and proved, in a sermon / preach'd the 4th of May at Wiviliscombe; before a numerous congregation assembled together to hear the opposition, which had been long threatned to be made that day, by Mr Collier and others of his party, who, with the greatest strength the West would afford them, were present at the sermon. Wherein were these five things undeniably proved: 1. That a mixture of prophane and scandalous persons with reall saints, is not inconsistent with the Church of God or a true church. ... 5. And then, they also must needs be guilty, who forsake true churches and a lawfull ministry, to follow and hear unsent preachers. By Francis Fullwood minister of the Gospel at Staple Fitzpane in the county of Somerset. Before it there is an epistle and preface, shewing the manner, and a narrative subjoyned shewing the substance of the dispute after the sermon, (both which lasted nine hours.) Set forth by the ministers that were at the dispute, and attested under their hands.	Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693.; Darby, Charls.; Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691.	1652 (1652)	Wing F2498; Thomason E671_2; ESTC R202166	72,915	100

As if Christ should say join your selves to them though wicked and prophane yet they are a true Church But how is that known why their ministry is true they sit in Moses chair But how doth that appear because their word and doctrine is true though their lives be wicked hear them but do a very cleer Note of the Catholick Church provided by lawfull Ministers Princ. dort c. 22. what they say not what they do And answerable to this is our Saviours rule for triall of Prophets By their fruit that is by their doctrine ye shall know what they be whether true or false preachers of the sound and orthodox truth is both a means and a mark a means of gathering and strengthening or confirming or keeping the Churches thereby together Now as the preaching of the word is a means to gather and constitute Churches at first so it being usually occasionall only it is not said to be a mark of the true Church but being gathered by the word and church'd by Baptism the ministery setled and fix'd as was said among them becomes an essentiall mark of the true Church Not only of the teaching which it doth immediatly but of the professing Church also since who can say where the true Church is but where the true doctrine and ministry is fix'd and setled and therefore we shall never read that God did ever divorce any Church though she deserv'd it long Rev. 2. 5. Nulla possit ● schismatius fieri tanta corruptio i. emendatio quanta est schismatis pernities if the doctrine of faith be sound Tert. de praes cap. 6. Si confessio ejus convenit cum Scripturis verus est Christianus sin minus falsus Chrysost before untill he removes his candlestick from them Which is most remarkable in the Jewish Church who while a Church God did not deal so with any Nation neither had the heathen knowledge of his Laws and the Apostles are charged to preach the Gospel to none other and who continued without all doubt to be a visible Church of God untill the course or the ministery is turned from her to the Gentiles then and not till then God cut off the Jew and ingrafted the Gentile 2. There is another chief mark of the visible Church which lieth on the Receivers part I mean as before the Preachers so here the professours of the truth My sheep hear my voice saith Christ that is my reall sheep hear my doctrine really and my visible sheep apparently and visibly so that a people baptized professing the true doctrine of Christ and visibly united in the publike and constant hearing and receiving the doctrine of Christ from the true Ministry are a true Church and are hereby known to be so I say this profession is visibly when the company do openly and visibly own and professe by frequenting the publike Ordinance of hearing the true doctrine and sufficient to discover them a true Church though very corrupt in other regards Now each of these the setled Preaching and constant receiving by publike attending the doctrine of Christ are very good marks of a true particular visible Church and in both together I conceive consists the form of the same viz. in a fixt and constant visible fellowship with God and each other in the sacred Ordinance of preaching and hearing the doctrine of Christ and from this a Church may recede and die two waies being starved to death through a Famine of the Word with the Church of the Jews 2. Or else being poysoned to death by contagious doctrine with the Church of Rome Object 'T is but weak to object That the preaching or hearing of the Word may not be marks or contain the essence of a true Church because these are common to Infidels Answ For the Preaching and hearing of the Word as common with Insidels is occasionall only as it was with Athenians and Paul but as it is an infallible mark of the visible Church 't is as before fixt and setled and in that as occasionall preaching and hearing of the Word is the only proper means of gathering Churches so where it hath so far wrought and prevailed as that it is become fixt and constant with any people it is to me a certain mark of gathered Churches provided alwaies submission hath been made to the Ordinance of Baptism To which I subjoyn this argument That which doth formally constitute or make a member of a Church doth constitute or make a whole Church But profession of the faith doth formally constitute a member of the visible Church and therefore the whole visible Church since the whole here is made of parts of the same nature visibility denominateth the parts and therefore the whole of the visible Church as true faith is essentiall to a member of the Church invisible and profession of that faith to a member of the visible so truth of faith doth constitute the invisible Church and profession thereof a visible Church according to the rule quae est ratio constitutiva partium est etiam constitutiva totius Quest But what shall we think of those Churches then that in time of persecution lose their Ministers so that the publike means of visible profession is gone Answ I answer Such cease not presently to be true Churches for while they own they professe the truth and profession we have shew'd is a good mark on the peoples part 2. While they desire the same they have a right thereto and enjoy this publike communion in its first act though they want the actuall administration and enjoyment of it 3. But considering how much of the form of the Church Ecclefia est unius cōgregationis cujus membra inter se combinantur ordinariè conveniunt uno in loco ad publicū Religionis exercitium Ame. Med. p. 215. 2. 2. consists in this publike communion together I cannot compare such a people better then to a man in a swound in whom for a time the soul the form ceaseth to perform its formall actions though it be not yet severed and gone from the body yet if such a fit as this continue Physicians tell us 't is very dangerous and experience reckons it a sure infallible sign of death even so when Vision fails the People perish CHAP. III. That the Churches that are now in England are Churches of God THe next conclusion doth naturally follow and closely and immediatly depend upon the former for since as we have found a mixture of prophane and scandalous persons with reall Saints is not inconsistent with the Church of God or a true Church Then our Churches that are now in England are Churches of God and true Churches I dare not say they are pure and much lesse perfect yet I Our Churches true Churches doubt not to prove them true Churches but by Churches I mean not though I highly commend that hand of wisedom that made the parochiall difference the Parishes here or at least not as under the notion

also the door of the Church for persons though really converted by the preaching of the Gospel and the Children of Beleevers born in the Church are not though virtuall actuall members of the visible Church before Baptism which seems to be built upon the known Text Go disciple all Nations baptizing them that is disciple not by teaching only not by teaching properly but by baptism the participle using to signifie the manner of doing Go disciple but how must we disciple why as before by circumeising so now by baptizing and in this Commission in Matthew to the Apostles the Commission given to our Father Abraham is but enlarged 't is the same * The Sacraments of the Jewish Church in substance were one and the same with our Sacraments Heb. 13. 8. 1 Cor. 10. 1 2 3. Joh. 8. 56. Joh. 6. 50 51. Col. 1. 11 12. 1 Cor. 5. 7. all say this except Papists Anabaptists Arminians and Socinians for substance though it differ in circumstance the work is the same to disciple and make up Churches though the matter is larger Abraham chiefly that one Nation to come out of his loines together with all that would joyn as proselytes and the Gospel Ministers must disciple all nations i. so far as they can and the nation will submit unto them Abraham was commanded to disciple by that initiating ordinance of Circumcision and the Gospel Ministers by this of Baptism indeed there is teaching prerequisite to prepare and fit men out of the Church for the ordinance of Baptism and so much was requisite to make men proselytes for Circumcision which thing makes it cleer that not only Abrahams naturall seed had right to this Ordinance or that his seed were circumcised as his seed but as they were capable of being members of the visible Church and therefore we finde that when heathen people were willing to become members of the Church they had the Ordinance of initiation Circumcision to enter them in and not them only but their children also which is a cleer pattern for the Ministers of the Gospel towards the Gentiles How shall we behave our selves to them why we have commission to disciple them But how why as the Ministers of Law did proselytes Gentiles before us by Circumcision so must we now by Baptism but whom among them why as they before us the prosely to Gentiles and their children too so must we also disciple by baptism the nations of the Gentiles and their children too so far as they submit themselves and their children to the Ordinance of Christ But I must return Baptism wee see is the door of the Church which further appears by Joh. 3. 5. Except a man be born again of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God this Kingdom of God I conceive to be the Church for Christ is telling Nicodemus here of earthly things and you may conceive the Church invisible or visible if invisible here is a door to let you in the baptism of the spirit and regeneration reall if visible here is another door for that too the baptism of water a regeneration visible a man may be born again i become a new man two waies and accordingly may have place in the Church two waies he may be born again indeed by a reall work of the spirit within and thus becomes a member of the invisible Church or else a man may be born again in shew only from a visible member of the world and the divel discipled by baptism and made thereby a visible member of Christ and entered into the visible Kingdom of Heaven the visible Church which indeed is sometimes first according to the order of the words except a man be born again of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the visible or invisible Church the Kingdom of Heaven Now to end with this it cannot be denied upon a good ground but we in England are a discipled nation and are entered into the Kingdom of Heaven the visible Church being born again by water Neither have we the seal only for we have the writings 2. And word of it Church is built upon the foundation of Apostles and Prophets too not only a pledg or token of the bargain but the word of the Covenant also the Scriptures in purity and the Ordinances of them in power and fullness which is undeniable and therefore we have the Covenant Deut. 4. 13. Heb. 9. 4. also above all reasonable contradiction and therefore we are the Churches of God for full satisfaction To * Rom. 9. 4. the Jews belonged the Adoption glory and Covenants but how does it appear because to them belonged the giving of the Law and the service of God And what advantage had the Jew by being a Church above the Gentile that was none why much every way but chiefly because to them were committed * Rom. 3. 1 2. The walls of the Church have their foundation in the Names i doctrine of the twelve Apostles and is therefore the pillar and ground of truth Rev. 21. 14. the Oracles of God shewing that they were a peculiar priviledge to and a distinguishing character of the visible Church for God sheweth his word unto Jacob his Statutes and judgements unto Israel and hath not dealt so with any nation that is among the heathen that have no Church Psal 147. 19 20. compared with Cant. 1. 7 other nations doubtless might have the Bible among them as we at this day have the Turkish Alcoron but here lay the difference God did not shew promulge or preach his word to them it was not with them as the Oracles of God the word of the Covenant to them Gospel Ordinances are a great part of the outward administration Ubi est fides illic est Ecclesia ubi non est fides ibi non est ecclesia Chryso of Gospel Covenant where God is pleased to hold a visible communion with us and we with him as before and so long as we have these we are no doubt in covenant with God and then a Church of God And to make all sure we have the peculiar blessings of the 3. And the blessings of it covenant which God bestows on none but such as are in covenant with him his own Churches These are chiefly three the blessing of his spirit of his providence and of his people the first is inward the two later outward but all spirituall and all speciall and peculiar blessings but of them in order The first and inward blessing of the Covenant is the blessing 1. Conversion I mean not only the common convictions enlightenings with the knowledge of the Gospel which is indeed peculiar to the Church however but the speciall blessings of the Spirit of God accompanying his word for the work of conversion in the hearts of our hearers This I make an infallible Mark of the truth of our Churches Conversion ordinarily wrought in our Churches Conversion may be

are resolv'd and center'd in Christ but that is in Christ considered in Aggregato that is Christ consisting of head and members and which cannot be denied because else all the Covenant of grace and promises being Compare the Text with 1 Cor. 12. 12. centered in the pe●son of Christ as you would urge there should be none le●t for the body of Christ in the daies of the Gospel Now consider what can you gain by this Text the meaning is that the former Covenant of grace and promises made to Abraham are all centred in Christ that is in Christ both head and members in the daies of the Gospel as is better expla●●ed by the 14. ver of the same Chapter the blessing of Abraham is come upon the Gentiles through Christ Jesus that is the promises and priviledges of our Father Abraham the typicall head of the Jewish Church is come upon the Churches of the Gentiles by Jesus Christ the mystical head of the Gentile Church and were not the promises made to Abraham and his seed and did not the priviledge of being Church-members belong to Abraham and his seed and therefore the same promises and priviledges belong to professors of the Gentiles and their seed also Again were this Text for you at all it would onely serve to prove that Christs spirituall seed have the priviledge of being Church-members alone the contrary we have proved in the Sermon above shewing you that not only hypocrites but scandalous persons were members of the Church of God at Corinth against which you have nothing to say they being members of the visible Church are members of the visible body of Christ and by consequence have visible interest in the promises and priviledges which you say are centred in Christ I desire you M. Collier to shew us a better Text then this therefore for the repealing of Infants Church-membership Coll. But this is clear'd by the last verse of the same Chapter if ye be Christs then are ye Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise Full. This text is clearer against you then the former was what doth it say it saith that the Gentiles by becoming Christs or Christians they become thereby Abrahams seed that is by being united to Christ really they become Abrahams reall seed and by being united to Christ visibly we become Abrahams visible seed and then accordingly we are interested in the promises and priviledges of Abraham being heirs according to the promise Hadridge There is now neither Jew nor Gentile bond nor free male nor female for ye are all one in Christ Jesus Full. I thank you for that M. Hadridge a most clear Text to prove the partition wall is broken down betwixt the Jews and Gentiles and that the Gentile Churches being now made one with the Jewish not as Jewish but as a Church have a right to all the priviledges of the Jewish Church and among the rest also to Church-membership for themselves and children if you have ever a better Text I pray produce it for these will not doe Coll. I pray then consider Rom. 2. 28 29. He is not a Jew that is one outwardly neither is that circumcision which is outwardly in the flesh but he is a Jew which is one inwardly c. Full. Alas this cannot be strictly and properly understood but by way of Comparison for a man cannot be a Jew and not a Jew that would be harsh the meaning is that he is not a Jew in Gods account that is such a one as shall have * Vers ult praise of God that is onely a member of the visible Church God looks chiefly to the heart or rather the Apostle is abolishing the Ordinance of Circumcision and winding up their hearts to the truth of it Circumcision that is of the heart not that in the dayes of the Gospel God doth so much regard the heart as that he appointed no outward Ordinances no visible Church nor visible worship or not members of the visible Church but such as are Circumcised in heart None of which you will offer to say and yet the Text taken your way offers to prove nothing else which I pray you consider But you must look for another Text this onely shewes that Circumcision it self is abolish't but the Covenant of Circumcision that abides as commanded upon Abraham and his seed both of Jewes and Gentiles for ever Gen. 17. 9. Col. But that Covenant was Circumcision ver 10. Full. Give the holy Ghost leave to interpret his own words and we read verse 11. That Circumcision was onely a token of the Covenant and though that sign is vanisht the thing remains unlesse you will make the substance of the Covenant in the time of the Law one thing and in the time of the Gospel another thing and so make two Covenants of Grace Col. I will not meddle with that now Full. But you must give us another Text or else we shall conclude That Children of Professors have the priviledge of being Church-members still Hadridge Matth. 3. Think not to say with your selves We have Abraham to our Father the Ax is laid to the root of the Tree which hath cut down all former priviledges Full. Alas have not all the other Scriptures which your selves have brought proved that we have Abraham to our Father stil and that we have no Promises or Priviledges at all but as we are Abrahams seed Had. But we must doe the works of Abraham that we may become Abrahams seed Full. True but as doing the works of Abraham indeed we become his reall seed and have a reall right unto his priviledges so by doing the works of Abraham in shew onely we become his seed in shew Which though it will not satisfie God who looks to the heart yet it gives them a title to outward priviledges from the hands of men who judge according to appearance The meaning of the place with the extent of it is plainly this That God requires more exactnesse and strictness in these dayes of the Gospel then he did in the times of ignorance under the Law not that the Gospel can any way possible deprive the Church of any Priviledge which made Grace to abound and not to diminish in this regard and therefore not this priviledge of having our Children Church-members with us Col. It is a Priviledge that our children are not Baptized and that in many respects Full. What are they I pray you Col 1. It is a priviledge for our Children to be in that condition that God would have them 2. Again Because when your Children are once Baptized you make it serve to make them secure telling them that now they are in a happy condition Full. Here are two priviledges for our Children not to be Baptized But to the first I say is it not a goodly priviledge for the Damned Devils to be in Hell yet that is the Condition God will have them in And for the second 't is a meer slander for as we

THE CHURCHES and MINISTERY of ENGLAND True Churches and true Ministery Cleared and proved In a SERMON preach'd the 4th of May at Wiviliscombe before a numerous Congregation assembled together to hear the opposition which had been long threatned to be made that day by Mr Collier and others of his party who with the greatest strength the West would afford them were present at the Sermon Wherein were these Five things undeniably proved 1. That a mixture of prophane and scandalous persons with reall Saints is not inconsistent with the Church of God or a true Church 2. That then the Churches that are now in England are Churches of God and true Churches 3. That then the Ministry of those Churches is the Ministry of God and the true Ministry 4. That then there is a great and heavy sin lying at the door of all such as do presume to preach publikely among us without a Call who have true Churches and a setled Ministry 5. And then they also must needs be guilty who forsake true Churches and a lawfull Ministry to follow and hear unsent preachers By FRANCIS FULLWOOD Minister of the Gospel at Staple Fitzpane in the County of Somerset Before it there is an Epistle and Preface shewing the Manner and a Narrative subjoyned shewing the Substance of the Dispute after the Sermon both which lasted nine hours Set forth by the Ministers that were at the Dispute and Attested under their Hands LONDON Printed by A. M. for George Treagle at Taunton and are to be sold at London by William Roybould at the Unicorn in Pauls Church-yard 1652. TO HIS Honoured Friend Collonel JOHN PINE A Member of Parliament and one of the Commissioners for the Militia of the County of Somerset Honoured Sir TRuth though above this sixteen hundred years of age and hath learned long since to stand alone yet experience hath found it doth ever goe the better into the world when imboldened with the care and gracious protection of a nursing Father and I need not dawb with untempered mortar to tell the world what the whole West of England well nigh knows that the potent influence and pleasant shade of so noble a Tree will better protect and secure those truths against all the heat of present opposition then these poor contemptible following Leaves can do Now Blessed be the God of Truth that hath inclined your heart to own his truth and more particularly to embrace an opportunity wherein you may do his shaken Churches throughout the world so great service a bold expression I must needs confesse yet Worthily Honoured Sir give me leave to be bold and I shall adde That there is nothing more certain then this that these mens principles we speak against would at once strike down I say not the credit but being and truth of all the Churches and Ministery and Ordinances of Christ that are either now or ever have been in the world since the Primitive times and who is not affrighted from horrid principles But since the designe lies so deep I beseech you Noble Sir to consider a little who they are that undertake it and with what Engine they think to effect it First Who and what are the men of so great an adventure Methinks Fame should carry them to be mightily skil'd in the Originall tongus or deeply read in the History of the Church whereby they had discovered something there that was never found out before or some Saints or Angels or Christs sent down from heaven to open some truths that had been lockt up and kept secret from the Church for so many hundred years but alas they pretend not to be any such but what are they even men of like infirmities with us and in a word no betterthen the Apostle describes unlearned unstable wresting the Scriptures But surely they have some weighty Arguments though the men be weak they would never undertake so great a design as to overthrow all Churches Ministers Ordinances and that ever since the Apostles times unlesse their Engine were somewhat answerable O yes they have allowed Infant-baptism Ministers that baptize infants are Anti-christian Members that were baptized Infants are Anti-christian and consequently Churches and Ordinances are all Antichristian Ah poor shift and yet you have nothing else will hold an Argument but this Let me now in the Name of God and all the Churches entreat these men to consider a few things or answer a few brief questions touching Infant-baptism and then they will see how desperate and unadvised they have been in a matter of so great moment 1. Suppose we should grant the baptizing of Infants an Errour May not the true Church erre may not the whole Church erre may it not erre in judgement and then what doth hinder but it may erre in practice too and yet be still a true Church to affirm the contrary is rank Popery Again If the Church may erre it may erre in circumstance without dispute and what is the errour of Infant-baptism if it be an errour more then a circumstantiall errour for have we not ever kept the substance of it the matter water and the form In the Name of the Father Son and holy Ghost how then I pray you can the errour of Infant-baptism destroy our Churches or nullifie our Ministers or ●●her Ordinances 2. But alas who told you that Infant-baptism was an errour before the Anabaptists of Germany did who told you when this errour came first into the Church What Precept or Precedent have you against it in all the Scripture or what command have you to shew for the baptizing beleevers only alas poor men who among you dare answer to any one of these questions and how then wilt thou be able to answer them all and much lesse can you warrant the desperate conclusions you have built upon so weak so tottering a foundation But why do I trouble these poor men alas they are but the weapons and Organs of Jesuites who play their game under these mens cloaks Methinks I see them instilling their damnable doctrines into these mens ears and venting them again at their mouths how naturally do all the abominable errours of these our times if you follow them a little kindely saluting each other and joyning in one stream tend and flow to the Sea of Rome the Seminaries are sowing their Tares among us which indeed spring too fast all the Land over and if they be not rooted up and stopt in time the Pope it 's to be feared will shortly reap too large a harvest among us in England which Canterbury I remember warned us off who know more of their plots and methods perhaps then he should or we do in his speech upon the Scaffold Honoured Sir give me leave I beseech you to point a little at the Jesuites drift as I conceive among us His generall last end is to advance the Pope and bring in Popery which hath been hatching many years The means he makes use of for this great end is to

Anabaptisticall locusts which did so much mischief So here when Popery was not only lopt but even taken away branch and root and religion ceased to be in shew only and began to flourish in the power thereof how hath Satan laboured to blast the bl●ssome of it with hellish fum●s and to eat away the very leaf thereof with infernall locusts Hence my soul hath strongly concluded That as when the Sun in its rising is darkened with mists it port●nds the fairest day So the Sun of the Gospel presently after his extraordinary bright rising in our Horizon being clouded puts us in an assured hope that after he mists are once dispelled it will break forth with a more dazeling lustre shining more and more unto the perfect day The second thing which refreshed me was a clear discovery of much good already wrought and working by these unlikely means of divisions How many sparks of truth have been beaten out by the collision even of flints How much precious flowre of wholsome doctrine hath been clean purged from its bran by the somewhat violent shaking thereof in the scarce of disputations It was observed as one good effect of the clashings of ancient times in that thereby the spirits of some Worthies then living were stirred up more fully to clear the truth The quarelling of the Anti-trinitarians quickned holy Augustines learned diligence and produced his Book de Trinitate And there hath not wanted an Augustine in our times who Dr Channell upon the same grounds hath done the like whose name is hereby made precious and will doubtlesse be ever mentioned with honour in the Churches Above all that most vexed question of Infant baptism upon what weak grounds hath it hitherto stood In opposing whereof Satan and his Instruments have been most forward and cunning and have concluded their objections irrefragable But how fully and unanswerably hath that truth been asserted as by others so chiefly by learned Baxter That God who commanded light to shine out of darknesse doth often produce the best effects out of the worst causes Adde to this that hereby many hypocrites unsound hollow-hearted professors have been clearly discovered even by their falling off to errour And those who are faithfull unto the Lord are made manifest Reade and compare 1 Cor. 11. 19. and 1 Joh. 2. 19. It is notoriously known to all that are not strangers in our English Israel how far the gangrene of errour hath prevailed and spread among us these seven years last past I meddle not with what I have heard or read of in other Counties as doubtless all have had their share the disease being Epidemicall these Western parts seem to have not the least infection We confess to our grief the seducers have had more advantages over us then possibly they could have otherwhere They found generally an ignorant and credulous people and therefore apt to be deceived and the rather because many flocks are without a shepheard or have a dumb dog that cannot bark or a blind watchman that cannot see or an hireling that fleeth when the wolf cometh Hence they have seduced hundreds unsetled thousands distracted and grieved all Their impudent audaciousness is such that they have interrupted and disturbed many Ministers in their publike exercise and it is ordinary to come with a gang of souldiers and prate on a tomb-stone while the Minister preacheth in a pulpit Nay they are grown to that height of confidence as to challenge learned Ministers to publike disputes but with what success I presume good Reader thou art able to say though I were silent Such a relation I am now to give thee of a dispute or rather Here are the signs and marks of an Apostle jangling had at Wiviliscombe in the County of Somerset May 4. 1652. between three or four young despised Ministers and the whole strength of the adversary I was an eye and ear witness of all or the most that passed and because I was present there yet none of the number of the Lecturers they desired me to write what I have to give thee some light in the following Sermon and Narrative I remember what Thales answered to one demanding How far Truth was distant from a lye As much 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith he as the eyes from the ears Meaning that the eye was a faithfull spectatour and authentique witness of things but the ear was open to lies and by it fictions and untruths had their entrance into the mind and therefore we should credit their relations whose seeing eyes had observed all passages but worthily suspect them who were only able to give a blinde testimony And therefore I challenge belief from all ingenious Readers I am not ignorant of the lying practises of Sectaries who cry Victoria among their injudicious proselytes and it may be have prepossessed thee with some untrue relation and therefore my Discourse shall bring thee into the place and with the help of the ensuing Narrative present to thy view the chief passages there First I must tell the occasion thereof Thou must know 1. Occasion good Reader that there is a weekly Lecture at Wiviliscombe aforesaid The Lecturers there unwilling that their meeting at the ordinary should be without fruit agreed among themselves that at set times they would for their own better satisfaction discusse some of the most at this day vexed questions in Divinity And because heresies grew apace and many of those parts fell away daily they thought it meet to acquaint their hearers therewith that all that would might resort to the place and hear them The first Question propounded some weeks before that the defendant might have some time to prepare himself was An justificatio sit uno actu simul semel Whether a beleever be actually justified from all his sins past present and to come at once namely upon the first act of faith which he puts forth This M r Fullwood the Author of the ensuing Sermon held in the Negative the rest opposed In the close they all professed their unanimous consent to what had been made appear to be truth At the next meeting was the Question about the lawfullness of Infant baptisme to be discussed which M r Wood the Minister of the place held in the Affirmative Their aud●ence was now much increased even to a chamber-full In ●he end the major part signified their being fully satisfied about the lawfullness thereof But all were not or rather would not be satisfied And here were the first sparks out of which arose the after flame the fewel whereof was the intemperate heat and ind●scretion of some who threatned to bring Collier to the next meeting if he were within An infamously famous Sectary many miles of the place and the courage of others who promised to defend that or any other Point against him The third Question which M r Howe held in the Affirmative was Whether the now Ministers of the Church of England be the Ministers of

plea for offering up of your strange fire that hath so inflam'd and almost consumed the Churches of Christ Is there no other way to vent the truth if you know such a thing as truth but from a pulpit to set up your fire as a Beacon on a hill to make a greater combustion among us however my friends consider a little doth this give you a call how can you then deny ours do you think that none of our Ministers can say from their hearts the love of Christ constrains us and woe is me if I preach not the Gospel if so then let that first plea fall to the ground or else give us leave to be preachers as well as your selves 2. Some of them and truly the chiefest of them pleade their 2. Gifts gifts for calling they are not they say since God hath lightned their candle for them to put it under a bushell but on the house top upon the mention of those things I cannot but say a word unto them though their answer is reserved for their proper place to such I say Cannot the starres shine and glitter unlesse they do manage the Chariot of the Sun My Brethren have you gifts as you say be humble and thankfull have grace in your hearts as well as gifts in your heads trust me then you would know your selves your gifts and places better yea and shine more too to the benefit of others for we are not the better for the light of the stars while the Sun shines be not angry though I call you starres for your own hearts smite you saying Your greatest light was borrowed from us which may be my Apology if I boast not when urg'd of our own gifts however suffer me to beg this question of you what one gift have you wherein the Ministery you so much blame excell you not unlesse it be in boldnesse and out-braving confidence there are two great gifts the Apostle requires in a Gospel-Preacher a being apt to teach and able to convince gain-sayers the first implying Rhetorick the last Logick both which you call Antichristian and disclaim as reprobate certainly brethren if you are apt to teach then the old rule fails qui benè distinguit benè docet for you are the worst at distinguishing that ever I knew any though indeed too cunning to divide you cannot distinguish between extraordinary and ordinary sending between invisible and visible Churches between private and publike pteaching still apt to mistake the one for the other and errour for truth too often how then are you apt to teach the rule is he that is good at distinguishing is good at teaching but you are not able to distinguish well and therefore not able to teach well yea you are not able to distinguish at all and therefore not fit to teach at all nor is it indeed fit you should the Apostle means by apt to teach an aptnesse of habit not of exercise an ability and fitnesse and not a propensity and pronenesse to be teachers now whether you allow the first to us or no the latter of these we cannot deny you who are in this sense so apt to teach that truly you Run before you are sent and are you better able to convince gainsayers let your publike disputes throughout the Land be a witnesse between us though we need not so much since your own confessions declare against you while you openly declare you are enemies to because ignorant of the very rules of dispute which gainsayers walk by for how can you then convince them 3. Others among them fly to the * Election of the people choice of true believers for the proof of their call they are they say elected to preach by precious choice and holy people whose call they cannot but 3. Ames himself saith thus Populus in judicando dirigi potest ac ordinariè debet a judicio aliorum pastorum electionem vel praeeunte vel comitante Cont. Bell. p. 96. hear and answer but as this can never create a Minister in a setled Church so is it greatest arrogance for you to claim it with defect in charity or excesse in impudence to deny it us yea we have this choice priviledge of you in that we are elected both by Minister and people Lastly Others of them mention the desire of the people as giving them a call then these Itineraries must have as many calls as Sermons almost for if their call consists of the peoples desire so often as they move to another place where they were not before they must have a new call or else preach there without a call for the former people do not desire cannot 4. The peoples desire therefore call them to preach to others but to themselves however can you say that you have this call and dare you say that we have it not Alas Every one knows if you do the publique proceedings of the present Authority and state of things will give you the lye for none are inducted into any place according to the Rule and Order of Parliament usually but such as are chosen desired and petitioned for by their people provided they be capable of such a priviledge besides that desire and invitation to be preachers they have from their friends and acquaintance which is all for the most part that any of you can plead or challenge Now consider I beseech you is not this all that you can say The conclusion of the first branch of the Argument for your selves and can you deny us any part of it nay dare you say that in those very things we have not the advantage How then I pray you is it that you speak so boldly that you rail so frequently publikely bitterly against us and tell the people with all confidence That you are the men that are called and sent by God himself to preach the Gospel and that we have no call at all Have you one grain more yea have you not many grains less then we in these very particulars your selves boast of I beseech you in the name of God consider this and let it for ever stop those mouthes that preach so much against our call that they either preach no more who have no better call then what they condemn or else preach no more against our call to preach who have the very same in every particular that themselves either have or allow or pretend unto But here we must part you can go no further in the way of a call We must step further for assure your selves Had we no better call to preach then you pretend unto we durst not presume thereupon as you do in a setled Church But I pass on to shew wherein we excel you and what warrant we have above you for we have yet behinde over and above what any other reasonable indifferent men and the word of God it self requires To which we proceed for your further and if possible full satisfaction SEC II. Now there are four

that one is more Christian then another and then there is granted some Christianism and not all Antichristianism in the Church of Rome and she was at least before that wretched Councel of Trent a Church of Christ Now my conclusion hence is this That if it be granted that Conclusion Rome was a true though wicked Church before the Councel of Trent sate then our first Reformers had a lawfull outward call a lawfull Ordination unto the Ministery for were not they ordained Ministers of the Church of Rome and consequently of a true Church were not they ordained Ministers Reformatio Ecclesiarum per Angliam An. Dom. 1547. See more Sleid. de statu Relig. pag. 599. l. 19. by the Church of Rome before the Councell of Trent none can deny it and then we have a known visible succession of persons in the Office of the Ministery from the Apostles times to this day None may object That this is nothing to the Ministery of England for certain it is that the Ministery of England as may be remarkably observed had their Ordination if from Rome before the Councel of Trent sate for they with the Church of England broke off from Rome even while that councell sate Consider therefore these things Seven Considerables to clear the Ordination of our first Reformers in England You may reade those decrees in Sleidan they were made An. 1539. as pag. 346. and abolisht An. 1547. as pag. 399. 1. That Rome her self was a true Church and her Ministers true Ministers before the Councell of Trent sate and therefore much more the Churches in England were true Churches and the Ministery thereof true Ministers before that time 2. The Churches and Ministery of England in the time of that councell broke off from Rome abolisht her fatall decrees touching Religion demolish't the images and statues in the Temples and thus began the blessed Reformation in England even then while Rome was declining towards Antichristianism 3. Who then can choose but see and know that our first Reformers had I mean the Ministers their Ordination in a true Church from true Ministers and we from them unto this very day have had a succession of lawfull Ministers in our Churches and upwards from them ever since we bore the name of a Church which may I suppose be computed to be upwards of 1500. years 4. Moreover might Rome be said and acknowledged to be a true Church still though extreamly corrupted yet could not this blame but commend our leaving of her for we separate not from her as a Church much lesse as true but as a corrupt and Apostate Church that is we separate from her corruptions and from her only as we cannot joyn with her but we must partake of her sins and plagues Just as the Non-conformists who did not joyn in some acts of worship heretofore because they could not safely do it without having communion with corruption in it yet did not all the while disown our Churches or separate from them but in them only as Rutherford distinguisheth 5. But to cleer the matter a little further consider the Church as one universall visible Church of Christ and Rome to be but a member of it and so far as the state of Rome is Antichrist but sitting in the Temple or universall Church of God for though she would usurp her self to be the whole visible Church yet God accounts not so we see for she is but in the Temple of God though she would be as God there Now is it a sin for one particular Church to deny communion with a sister Church in those things wherein she offends both God and other Churches no doubtlesse but a vertue rather if one particular Church should deny communion with the whole visible Church b●sides her self in such a case Now Rome of right and in Gods account is but a sister no mother Church to the Church of England what authority she had over it was usurp'd on her part and utterly unlawfull if yeelded to on ours Now had the sister in the word denied to commit that folly with her brother and escaped his hands by flying from him she had done virtuously then also if England broke out of the hands of her sister Rome and would not commit that Adultery with her she hath praise of God for obeying his will and command If a sinner entice consent thou not One particular Church bears some Analogy to another like that of a member of a particular Church to another member of the same two particular Churches are members of one universall as two particular members are of one particular Church Now therefore if a member of a particular Church must not partake of the sin of another member no more must one particular Church of the sinne of another Again so a particular Church may not joyn with the sinnes and corruptions of the universall no more then one member may joyn with the Church of which he is in any sinne or errour whatsoever In We leave Rome in two things two things the Church of Rome is forsaken by us 1. In her corruptions and superiority of us in neither of which without sinne and losse could we joyn with her or yeeld unto her Now what hath been said upon this particular as it serves to pleade for o●r lawfull distance to the Church of Rome though she should be found to be a true Church still so also to maintain the practice of Luther c. who left the Romane Church before that wretched Councel sate we so much speak and complain of 6. Nor can there be any thing of moment urg'd from any interruption of Popery since against our Ministery or Churches in England could it be granted that the Councel of Trent did wholly and fully make Rome Antichrist for the Protestant Religion flourish'd from Henry the eighth's through Edward the sixth's to Queen Maries Reign indeed she made havock of the Churches however she reign'd but four years and four moneths and what of Popery she brought among us was by force so that by Q. Elizabeths gentle commands we easily reduced our selves to our former profession of the Protestant truth however what could this short sword effect as to the cutting the line of succession of true Ministers none can think that all were butchered but that many of our Ministers and people too did temporize throughout her Reign not daring to suffer for the truth secretly beleeved though not openly professed by them as by others * And as to this worst of the cases Johnson the Separatist himself helps us observing that in case of Idolatry in the time of the Law the Levites and Priests that had revolted upon Repentance kept their first functions without any new anointing or imposition of hands and for this h● quotes many Texts Again many other Ministers might be blinded and fall away in time of persecution for advantage sake who yet being ordained before Queen Mary lawfull Ministers might out-live both

an apparent Seal to his Commission to make its authority known to such as question it but this is our comfort that we can say without boasting the Ministery of England in every age can say to our Churches to our Friends and Enemies Ye are the Seal of our Apostleship God hath Sealed our Commission in your Conversion and Confirmation in your increase in knowledge grace and comfort in your perseverance to the end though through Fire and Sword when occasion of Martyrdome or Persecution hath called you to it thanks be to God for so good a Seal both of your Redemption and our Commission which the Devil or his Instruments shall never be able to Cancell Now consider in a word and I have done with this Can we as I have shew'd have the Ordination of Christ and yet be Antichristian Can we preach and uphold the Doctrine of Christ and be Antichristian Can we to conclude doe the work of Christ and yet be Antichristian Truly whom these things will not satisfie I must leave unsatisfied CAP. V. That they are guilty of a great sin that presume to preach without a Call THus we are come to the fourth Conclusion for if our Churches as we have proved are true Churches and the Ministery of them true Ministers as our very adversaries cannot but grant if they will but acknowledge themselves or God their own principles are Gods Word then there is a The sin of unsent Preachers great and heavy sin lying at the door of all such as doe offer to preach publickly without a Call What! Preach without a Call in true Churches that are blest with a true and setled Ministery Was ever such a thing heard or read of that was not pursued and overtaken by some horrid judgement O who can think of the sad effects that this one piece of mad disorder hath wrought upon this poor land of ours without an amazed bleeding heart it hath put the Foundations out of frame and what can the righteous doe But shall not God be avenged on such a Nation as this I wonder the earth doth not open again and swallow both them and us up quick Was not the sin of Corah and his Company just the very same with the sin of these men viz. A contemning of Gods Ministers and was not their plea the very same viz. That all the Lords people are holy the sons of Levi take too much upon them Then ô then what patience is it that bears up the earth under these men that holds the heavens from falling upon them and dashing them down into hell that they yet perish not in the gain-saying of Corah But there are spiritual judgem●nts somewhat more sutable to spiritual times which I fear are prepared for these men to be cast into a Gulf though not of the earth of error which is worse to be given over to a reprobate mind and strong delusions to believe lies For I must needs observe that they so soon as they fall to this trade of Preaching they presently vent most dangerous errors Whence I conclude that none dare presume to preach unsent but men of such erroneous and desperate principles these men are of or else God punisheth this their disorderly sin with delivering them up to such strong delusions as they are in which I am indeed inclined the rather to believe because such was the punishment of the Jewish Nation for the lik● sinne and what was that but a killing the Prophets and stoning them that were sent unto them A rejecting Christ in the Ministery of the Gospel And what was the judgement that fell upon them for this their sinne even that that hath remained as a Plague to their hearts for above this sixteen hundred year And what was that Read Romans 11. 8. and see how like it is to that which these men though past-feeling labour under God hath saith the Text given them the spirit of slumber eyes that they should not see ears that they should not hear O heavy judgement and so much the more that it is insensible God hath given them the spirit of slumber and now I wonder not why they pretend to dream dreams but alas they slumber with their sences lockt their eyes are shut their ears are stopt they are in a maze not knowing where nor how they are nor what they would have possest and troubled with the restless spirit of Giddy slumber They strongly perswade themselves and others that their eyes are open and they see such things as no men see when alas what they see is but a vision of the night the work of inward phansie only and their eyes are shut all the while and such is their misery though men cry to them and in their very ears to awake and rouse them out of their dream their ears are heavy they cannot hear or they cannot hear at least of that ear Object But may not any Preach that are able Answ There is a known distinction or two that may end the controversie 1. We must distinguish of the state of the place wherein we are If it be that we are cast upon the Heathens Turks or the like where there is no Church nor Ministry there every man is bound to make known the Gospel of Christ so far as he may with prudence do Or again if Churches were not yet constituted though the truth of the Gospel was entertained by many we may grant without danger that then men without a formall sending may exercise their gifts in such a way as is not lawfull in a setled Church But in such a Church as ours is that is already constitute and hath within her a setled Ministry for private men to presume to Preach is such a notable sin in the Scripture that it is there condemned from heaven in as great a remarkable vengeance from God in Corah's company and the Nation of the Jews as any we reade of We therefore knowing the terrour of the Lord perswade our brethren 2. We must in a setled Church distinguish of Preaching publiquely and Teaching privately the later which consists in private exhortation reproof comfort counsel and the like every member in private conference ought to perform from a principle of love for the edification of the whole body but for the first particular of the distinction the thing we are only upon the publique preaching of the word it being an act of Office doth belong peculiarly to Church Officers and may not be assumed by any other let their parts and abilities be what they will unless it be in order as our Expectants to ordination and that by the leave and invitation of the Church wherein they are I mean by publike preaching a presuming to declare the minde of God by expounding and applying the holy Scripture in the place of our Assemblies before the Church in the seat of the Minister or any other For any private man or man uncall'd to offer this is great presumption condemn'd by the Scripture