Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n
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A07486
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Luthers predecessours: or an ansvvere to the question of the Papists: Where was your church before Luther?
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Bedford, Thomas, d. 1653.
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1624
(1624)
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STC 1787; ESTC S114052
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16,219
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32
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Luthers Predecessours OR AN ANSWERE TO THE QVESTION OF THE PAPISTS Where was your Church before Luther LONDON Imprinted by Felix Kingston for George Winder and are to be sold at his shop in Saint Dunstons Church-yard in Fleet-street 1624. Luthers Predecessours OR AN ANSWERE TO THE QVESTION OF THE PAPISTS Where was your Church before Luther AMongst all those Creatures that yeeld an vnpleasant sound none are so clamorous and obstreperous as Frogs and Locusts these by land the other by water saluting each passenger with an vnwelcome note the iust picture and resemblance of popish Priests and Iesuites which certainly are the Frogs which S. Iohn saw to come forth of the mouth of the Beast and the false prophet whose croaking and vnwelcome noise doth nor a little trouble each Christian passenger Amongst other harsh notes of theirs this question hath his place for what musicke can there be in it Where was your Church before Luther To what end is this question mooued except it bee to trouble men for what if wee could not prooue that our English Church was before Luther must it needs follow that the doctrine we hold is vntrue or shall the doctrine of the Church of Rome be euer the truer because of onely antiquity what if Arrius or Nestorius could haue deduced the Patrons of their opinions from Adam should they for that haue beene orthodoxall No certainly and why not Because the Church must be prooued and allowed by the doctrine and not the doctrine authorized by the Church which the Papists a people wise in their generation well knowing haue ouerturned the course of nature will haue the Scripture and all doctrine to hang vpon the determination of the Church and vpon this ground it is that they proceede to such questions as these hoping that if they haue once amazed any one with the name of the Church and shall haue driuen him from title and interest to the Church before Luthers time they shall easily make him call in question the whole frame of doctrine of the reformed Churches Vnto this question answers haue beene made arguments alledged to prooue that the doctrine of the Protestant Religion hath had his being in the world long before the dayes of Luther That argument of the worthy Doctor Featly cannot by any Iesuite be answered who concludeth that the doctrine of the reformed Churches must needs haue Professours in all ages because it is eternall for eternity must needes haue a perpetuall duration without interruption The argument of Induction is that which better pleaseth the Iesuite but by no meanes will hee suffer our enumeration to begin with Christ and his Apostles for then what shifts what cauils and tergiuisations they haue may easily appeare by the proceedings of the late conference betwixt D. White and D. Featly against Fisher and Sweet Wherefore to answer a foole according to his folly I haue indeuoured to draw the argument of Induction à posteriore beginning with the ages next before Luther the which is not so hard a taske as commonly is imagined But first we must agree vpon the termes of this question Where was your Church c where wee must first know what is meant by your and what by Church For if by your they meane the Church of our Nation that is Where was your English reformed Church Then are we to answer out of our own Chronicles and so shall we be able to name the fewer in all ages and in some ages perhaps none not that there were none but that the Euidences are lost But I suppose they doe not by the termes your Church vnderstand a Nationall or Prouinciall Church because then must they prooue that the Church of the New Testament is tyed to a place so that where it once hath beene planted there it should continue which is contrary to all experience besides had they meant so they would haue rather named Tyndall or some other Englishman then Luther a German By your Church they meane then those men in what Country soeuer which confessed and maintained the same doctrine Then for the meaning of the word Church wee demand whether they mean a visible constituted Church which might haue beene knowne by the distinction and succession of Bishops Elders Deacons c. or whether they meane generally any company of men holding and professing those truths and doctrines which we maintaine For if they will tye vs to the former I say still the taske is vnequall because the Records are wanting but especially because they cannot prooue that the Church must alwayes bee in such manner visible for in Elias time there were 7000. vnknowne to him much more to Ahab In the time of Christs passion some of the Papists say that the Church rested onely in Marie and all doe vsually compare the Church to the Moone which is alwayes lasting but not alwaies in the Full. But if they meant the latter namely a company of men professing the same faith which wee doe then wee further propound to them two questions The first is Whether the persecuting of any defacto doe hinder the iustifying of them deiure which they must needs denie except they will beg the question and then though we finde such and such in former ages to haue beene condemned yet if deiure they ought not and that we can iustifie their Tenents we shall proceed more easily in challenging them for ours But if they would haue vs to name men vncondemned liuing in peace free from persecution they must then prooue that persecution doth take away the priuiledge of the Church that those men shall not be of the Church because persecuted which if they goe about they must wipe out the whole infancy of the Church for the first 300. yeeres but they shall neuer be able to prooue it for the woman in Reuel 12. was constrained to flie into the wildernesse for feare of the Dragon The second is What those doctrines are which we must prooue those whom wee seeke for to haue held for if they meane the fundamentall poynts of Religion contained in the Creed for matters of faith in the Decalogue for matter of practice and in the Lords Praier for matter of praier they themselues shall be our spokesmen for they and wee hold these in common but if they meane those points of doctrine wherein we dissent from the present Church of Rome which they must do if they vnderstand themselues in the question then we further desire to know whether they will not allow vs to challenge those for ours who held the most and mainest for which they suffered as well as wee although perhaps in some other points they dissented from vs in our generall Tenents for if they will allow vs onely such who both in doctrine and discipline did in all points agree they are too narrow for any dispute besides they must prooue that there hath beene alwaies such an vnity of words and doctrine that in no point the professours haue or may dissent
the Lords Supper of penance orders the power of the Keyes the preaching of the Gospell of marriages vowes possessions correction of the Clergy of the lawes and decrees of the Church of the state and condition of the Pope and Clergy 1409. Iohn Badly first molested and condemned by the Bishop of Worcester was afterwards accused before Archbishop Arundel and other his Assistants for being vnsound in the doctrine of the Sacrament as denying the reall presence and transubstantiation and being demanded whether he would renounce and forsake his opinions and adhere to the Doctrine of the Catholike Church hee confessed That he had both said and maintained the same and would adhere and stand to these his opinions and while he liued would neuer retract the same for which hee was condemned and in Smithfield burned After this the Prelates not contenting themselues with this that now they had the power of the secular arme to assist them in the punishment of Heretikes and hauing a King to their mind ready to serue their turne in al points at the Parliamēt thē held procured the Statute ex Officio the sequell whereof cost many a man his life at the same time also came foorth diuers constitutions of Archbishop Arundell forbidding to preach or teach any thing contrary to the Determination of the Church in the points of the Sacrament of the Altar Matrimony Confession or other Sacraments or other Articles of faith Item that no Schoolemasters should in teaching the Sciences intermingle any thing concerning the Sacraments contrary to the determination of the Church That none of Wickliffes bookes should bee read those onely excepted which the Vniuersitie of Oxford had allowed Item That none should translate any Text of Scripture into English Item That diligent inquisition should bee made by euery Prouost Principall and Master of euery Colledge in Oxford among the Schollers for persons defamed of heresie Now let all men iudge whether these constitutions giuen at Oxford in this manner do not plainely declare that there was a great company of these men who professed and taught such points which these constitutions did condemne Againe is it any wonder that after such strength and force such policy and practices vsed to supplant the doctine of Wickliffe and his followers it should bee almost extinguished The Bishops and Clergy hauing the King on their side armed with Lawes Statutes Punishments Imprisonments Fire Faggot Sword and the like what wonder is it if they beare all before them Is it equall to challenge vs to shew foorth our Church to require a visibility of it when these who are our aduersaries hauing the sword in their hand did labour so abundantly to suppresse the memoriall of them And yet by the goodnesse of God it came to passe as may appeare by the Registers that those persons whom they condemned and detested as Heretikes calling them Lollards did increase daily in diuers countries especially at London in Lincolne-shire Norfolke Hereford Shrewsbury and in Calice and other quarters in the Prouince of Canterbury with whom Archbishop Arundel had much adoe as by his Registers doth appeare 1413. Henry the fourth beeing dead succeeded Henry the fifth crowned on Passion Sunday presently after began a Parliament to be called and holden after Easter at Westminster at which time also was holden a Synod at London vnder Archbishop Arundel The chiefe cause of assembling thereof was to represse the growing of the Gospell and especially to withstand the noble and worthy Lord Cobham who was then noted to be a principall fauourer receiuer and maintainer of them whom the Clergy called Lollards especially in the diocesse of London Hereford and Rochester setting them vp to preach whom the Bishops had not licensed hee was also accused to bee farre otherwise in the beliefe of the Sacraments of the Altar of Penance of Pilgrimage Image-worship and of ecclesiasticall power then the holy Church of Rome had taught for many yeeres before his examination confession and declaration of his Christian beliefe his godly answers and reasons his constancy in the truth is worth the reading Finally he was also condemned and committed to the Tower out of which hee made an escape peraduenture not without the helpe of Sir Roger Acton who himselfe whatsoeuer hee was otherwise certaine it is that hee was alwaies of a contrary minde and opinion to the Romish Bishops and Clergy for which he was greatly hated of thē his friendly helpe to the Lord Cobham is thought to haue bin the cause why hee was apprehended and brought into trouble and in the end came to his death some three yeres before the Lord Cohbam and with him I. Browne and I. Bouerly a preacher suffered the same kind of death in S. Giles fields with other moe to the number of 36. as the stories doe report all which are said to haue bin hanged and burned in the moneth of Ianuary 1413. The which death also the Lord Cobham suffred some foure yeeres after his escape being betrayed and brought in by the Lord Powes either for the hatred of the religion and true Doctrine of Iesus Christ or else for greedinesse of the reward promised by the King to them that could bring in the Lord Cobham aliue or dead for being thus taken he was adiudged to be hanged vpon the new gallows in S. Giles field and burned hanging for you must know that the Prelates the better to suppresse this doctrine had gotten an Act passed which condemned the Lollards and followers of Wickliffe decreeing that they should be accounted as traitors to the King and Realme and so should suffer double punishment viz. to be burnt as heretikes and hanged as traitors to the King testified by Polydore Virgil and by Waldensis 1415. After Th. Arundel succeeded Archbishop Chichely before whom was conuented Iohn Claydon who for the space of 20. yeeres before had beene suspected of Lollardy He was accused to haue diuers bookes in English out of which his Aduersaries collected 15. Articles which they condemned as hereticall and erronious for which cause he was condemned and shortly after together with Rich. Turning burned in Smithfield Shortly after the Archbishop with the rest of the Clergy made other constitutions against the Lollards After the setting forth of which constitutions great inquisition followed in England and many good men whose hearts began to fauour the Gospell were brought to much vexation and trouble and caused outwardly to abiure Thus while Christ had the inward hearts of men Antichrist would needs possesse the outward body and make them sing his song In the number of whom were I. Taylor W. Iames I. Dwerfe Iohn Iourdly M. Roberts Parson of Hegly W. Henry I. Gall Bart. Cornmonger N. Hooper Th. Granter so also Ralph Mongin Priest was condemned to perpetuall prison After this followed the Recantation of Ric. Monke and of Edmund Frith besides many more recorded in the same Register who likewise for their faith and Religion were much vexed and troubled The names of 16. are