other of our enemies think their case the better because of our sinnes or troubles or weak walking in the faith whereoÌ„ they do so much insist Concerning which my answer shall be with the words of the Prophet Reioyce not against me ô myne enemie though I fall I shall arise wheÌ„ I sit in darknes the Lord shall be a light vnto me I will beare the wrath of the Lord because I have sinned against him vntill he plead my plea execute iudgement for me he will bring me forth to the light I shall see his righteousnes And he will look vpon myne enemie and cover her with shame which said vnto me Where is the Lord thy God Myne eyes shall looke vpon her now shall she be troden downe as the myre in the streetes And in this will we rest and wayt vpon the Lord the God of our salvation trusting in him that notwithstanding our vnworthines and his chastising which we have deserved yet he will look vpon vs in mercy and make all things worke for good vnto vs in Christ And that thus the vttermost opposition of all our enemies howsoever they set them selves against vs whether against our cause or against our persons against our faith or our walking in it shall turne to our good to the furtherance of the truth witnessed by vs which we have much found that adversaries of all sorts have a long time and many wayes oppugned as they yet daily do and cease not though all in vaine For great is the truth and will prevaile and greater is he that is with vs then they all that are against vs. To him be praise and glorie for ever and ever Amen Esay 54 15.16.17 Behold he shall gather together but without me whosoever shall gather himself in thee against thee shall fall Behold I have created the smith that bloweth the coales in the fire and him that bringeth forth an instrument for his work and I haue created the stroyer to destroy But all the weapons that are made against thee shall not prosper and every tongue that shall rise against thee in iudgement thou shalt condemne This is the heritage of the Lords sâ—rvants and their righteousnes is of mâ— saith the Lord. AN INQVIRIE AND ANSVVER Of Thomas VVhite his Discovery of Brownisme or as he calleth it also his declaration of some of the errors and abhominations daily practised encreased among the English company of the separation remayning for the present at Amsterdam in Holland TO any that are exercised in the word of God or know the nature and power of sinne in themselues or the doctrine pledges of remissioÌ„ of sinnes by Châ—ist in his Church or the power vse of excoÌ„munication for impenitent sinners or the Churches duty vpon their repentance to receive them againe etc. To any such I say it cannot seem strange that in true Churches and Christians sinnes enormities sundry and great should fall out be found The condition of the Church of the Iewes before Christ of the Primitive Churches after Christ yea of the whole Church and people of God from the beginning of the world to this day shew it plainly and certainly so to haue ben Which work of God so disposing and case of his Churches and the members therof so being howsoever many haue stumbled thereat abused it to their own destruction deceiving of others yet thus would God preach vnto the world and have his own people learne and lay to hart other better things thereby As namely how sinfull miserable we are in our selves how subtilly and continually Sathan seeketh to devoure vs how fast we had need alway to hold faith in Christ and to fight the good fight thereof against all enemies of our salvation and obedience how needfull it is to live in the Church of Christ vnder his conduct and governmeÌ„t how carefull we had need be to make an end of our owne salvation with feare trembling also how exceeding great the mercy of God is vnto vs in Christ his SoÌ„ne by whom not only when we were enemies we were reconciled to God by his death but being also reconciled are saved by his life and finally how infinite his power wisedome is both in preserving his elect to salvation through the middest of so great corruption and in bringing the wayes of the wicked vpon their own heads to their iust destruction and all to the praise glory of his Name These and the like good vses may should we make of the foresaid condition of the Church here on earth Neyther did we ever think or professe otherwise of our selves but that we are sinfull prone to evill in our selues aswell as others obteyning salvation onely by Iesus Christ. Yet may not our or any weaknes of man praejudice the truth of God So that admitting it were with vs as this Adversarie Thomas White hath written against vs yet ought none therefore to be turned away from the truth professed by vs but to make other vse thereof for their own good as we our selues also ought But now if the things he obiecteth be many of them notorious lyes divers of them purposely perverted few of them truely related and all of them as all may see maliciously abused against vs how iustly shall that returne vpon his own head which he would in â—his manner bring vpon vs according as it is said He that diggeth a pit shall fall therein and he that roleth a stone it shall return vpon him His mischief shall returne vpon his owne head and his iniury shall descend vpon his owne pate Prov. 26.27 Psal. 7.15.16 TO come to the Libell it self he beginneth it with blasphemy in the very title thereof calling it A discovery of Brownisme What our cause and testimony is we haue long since published in the Confession of our faith which this man knoweth well hath in his book alledged the 17. Article thereof If then he take our cause for which we are reviled vnder the name of Brownists to be errour why did he not confute it If it be the truth why doth he thus blaspheme it But so to be reproached hath ben the case of the Apostles and Christians of old And at this day are the Protestants thus dealt with by the Papists who blaspheme the truth vnder the name of Zuinglianisme Lutheranisme Calvinisme c. And well it fitteth the Priests of England that as they partake with the Papists in so many other things they should also follow their steps in blaspheming the truth and witnesses thereof That which he annexeth calling his book also A declaration of some of the erros and abhominations among vs as it enlargeth the title of his Book so it increaseth the wickeâ—nes of his sinne For may not the Reader hereby gather that he would perswade eyther that we hold and haue many other errours abhominations besides them that here he imputeth vnto vs or that all our cause and
the Cathedrall and parishionall Assemblies can be assured by the word of God that they ioyne to the former ordeined by Christ and not to the latter devised by man even the man of sinne for the worship and service of God Now reducing our cause to these heads if it were so that I erred in one of them is therefore our cause betrayed Or should my particular error be imputed to the whole Church or reputed the betraying of our generall cause Is there not difference to be put between erring through ignorance if this were an errour and betraying with knowledge Or if this maner of reasoning which he vseth might be admitted who can deny but the Protestants of England and of all sorts have an hundred and an hundred tymes betrayed their own cause and overthrovven the very drift of their owne writings And if they think it not of weight against them for their multitude of knowen errours with what face can it be vrged against vs for one supposed errour 3. For the description it self which was given of a visible Church I still hold it to be good It was thus A true visible Church of Christ is a company of faithfull people by the word of God called out from the vvorld and the false vvayes thereof gathered together in fellovvship of the Gospell by a voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ. This is the description which he would proue to be false partly by gathering my meaning thereof in other places of that other books partly and particularly by my judgment concerning the Israelites in Egypt spoken of in the Ans. to Mâ— Ia. pag. 47. Where before I answer him let me advertise the Reader that if there be any weight in this exception it was found out not by Th. White as by his book might be supposed but by some of the Ministers in VViltshire specially by one Mr Io. Ie. and other his fellowes there who have bestowed much labour in reading our writings vvhether for love to the truth or that they might finde somewhat thereby the more to cavill against it let their walking and dealing shew VVhose disciple novv this White is become having heretofore stood as opposite against them as white is to black Now therfore to answer them all vnder one I will write somewhat touching this matter referring the further handling of it if there be need till some other adversaries with whom we haâ—â— to deale concerning it and the other heads of our cause give further occasion Two things as I said about this description are specially noted and vrged the first about the meaning the other about my vvriting of the Israelites in Egypt For the first the meaning is plaine by the words themselues and by the drift of that and all other of our booâ—s as may appeare not onely by the places here cited by him but by many other compared together and particularly by an expresse declaration annexed vnto it in our Apologie against the Oxf Doct. pag. 36.44.45 Yet now againe to explane and proue the truth of that description I will here treat a litle more thereof To esteem and describe aright a true visible Church we must look especially to two things 1. the calling of Christ 2. the covenant and coÌ„munion of the Church To Christ his calling like as the Apostles every where describe the Churches according to it As namely the Churches of Ephesus Corinth Rome c. For which see these Scriptures Rom. 1.5.6.7 1 Cor. 1.2.9.24 Gal. 1.6 5.8.13 Ephe. 1.1 with 4.1.4 Col. 3.15 1 Thes. 2.12 5.24 2 Thes. 1.11 2.14 Heb. 3.1 1 Pet. 1.15 2.9.21 2 Pet. 1.1.3 Iude ver 1. Now it caÌ„not be denyed but Christs calling of his Churches people is vnto the whole faith of the Gospell willing obedience thereof fâ—oÌ„ all evill iniquity that is any way repugnant therevnto therefore froÌ„ the false worship wayes of the vvorld whatsoever they be or wheresoever And herevpon did the Apostles reproue the Churches still when they fell into any sinne eyther against the first or second Table as not walking worthy the holy calling whervnto they were called in Christ and required of them also obedience to all the coÌ„maundements ordinances of Christ fâ—oÌ„ tyme to tyme. Therefore should White and his teachers have better observed that clause of the description aforesaid by the vvord of God called out etc. So might they have perceived if they had love to the truth both that the description is good and that the abberrations of true Chuâ—ches are so far from proving it any way false as they do in deed approue the truth of it in asmuch as the verie being of a Church by the calling of Christ requireth of them to walk otherwise Another thing that we are to look vnto yet also depending vpon the former is the Churches covenant and coÌ„munion This covenant is to be considered as made by them vnto the Lord and one with another to walk together in the truth of the Gospell in all the coÌ„maundements and ordinances of the Lord And therefore to forsake and avoid whatsoever is there against As may appeare by these Scriptures Exod. 19.3 8. 2 King 23.2.3 Esa. 2.2.3 14.1 and 44.5 Ier. 50.4.5 Act. 2.41.42.47 and 11.21.24 Rom. 12.5 2 Cor. 9.13 Ephes. 4.4.5.6 Phil. 1.1.5 Therefore also the description aforesaid is good And so might the adversaries haue perceived if they had well observed that other clause therein of being gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell c. And what els is it that giveth the being to a true visible Church but the calling of Christ the Churches covenant according thervnto Wherevpon in a true Church may and ought these things following alway to be observed 1. That it hath Christ alone for the Mediatour that is for the Prophet Priest and King thereof 2. That it is to be accounted the spouse and body of Christ the househould citie and kingdome of God the ground and pillar o truth a Church of Saints c. 3. That the promises and pledges of Gods covenant presence blessing do appertayne vnto them in that estate 4. That it apperteyneth to Christ to remove his Candlestick take away his kingdome from a Church when and as he pleaseth 5. That every true visible Church hath authority and power froÌ„ Christ to receive in members willingly professing the same faith with them to cast out obstinate offenders from among them 6. That the want or transgression of Christs ordinances doth not simply or presently disanull them from being a true Church For example When a people are so called and covenanted as aforesaid though yet they have none in office amoÌ„g theÌ„ eyther Pastors Teachers Elders etc. they are notwithstanding a true visible Church And by their calling and covenant they have power in Christ as he giveth them fit men and meanes to chuse and enjoy these as any other of his ordinances Likewise
was kept vnbaptized and for that we heard she had entertayned Ma. Sl. at her table who is a man excoÌ„municated by our Church whereof she was then a member For these things onely was she called before the Elders and for the first together with her apostasie from the truth which before tyme she had professed with vs she was a while after excoÌ„municated by â—he whole Church For the latter whenas she answered that it was her husbands doing without her liking and against her will though not so signifyed vnto him that her self gaue the excommunicate no countenaunce as approving his estate we rested therein instructing her onely how to cary her self in such cases for tyme to come exhorting her to be carefull accordingly to walk as by the word of God we have rule and direction Now for the hypocrite her husband himself whereas he saith here the Church of Christ do privately admonish a private sinne of a holy and loving affection how will he shew this in the Church of EnglaÌ„d whither he is gone or doth he hold it not to be the Church of Christ or that it is by some priviledg not bound to the ordinances of Christ Not to speak how himself by his owne mouth is condemned whiles he acknowledgeth that ChristiaÌ„s ought thus to walk yet publisheth he careth not what things private or publick true or false and that with a wicked and malicious affection Lastly from the officers he cometh to the people objecting against them vncleannes cousoning disgracing backbiting and vndermyning one of another amongst themselves But this onely in generall termes And so might any vnclean mouth and backbiting sclanderer traduce any people in the world Will he now then apply to himself to his practise and consorts in this work that which the Prophet speakes With our tounge will we prevaile our lippes are our owne who is Lord over vs Psal. 12.4 Why boastest thou thy self in malice ô man of power the loving kindnes of God indureth every day Thy tounge imagineth mischief it is like a sharpe rasor ô thou worker of deceit Thou lovest evill more then good lyes more then to speak the truth Selah Thou lovest all words that may destroy ô deceitfull tounge But above all mark now the wickednes and blasphemie of his conclusion of this point Which that it may the better appeare with lesse praejudice of others be regarded I will put the case in an instance of Iacobs family before Christs coming in the flesh and of the Church of Corinth synce Christs time and therein will alledg not things forged perverted and abused as this enemy doth against vs but true things onely and such as are recorded in the Scriptures themselves That the family of Iacob was the Church of God cannot be denied Now in it we fynd that Iacob having two wives and two concubines his wives envied one another Rachel stale away her Fathers idols Dinah his daughter was deflowred his sonnes deceitfully beguiled the Sichemites Simeon and Levi slew them in a rage Reuben committed incest with Bilhah his fathers concubine the other brothers hated envied and sold Ioseph into Egipt and coloured it with lving to Iacob their father Iudah lay with Thamar his daughter in law taking her to be an whore c Will now any man of knowledg and fearing God infer therefore herevpon and say Were these then the Church the Saincts the Israell of God Were these the fathers of the tribes of Israell so greatly renowmed through all posterity Were these the stones the precious stones embossed in the High priests Brestplate Were these the twelve Patriarks for the tyme of the Law answerable to the twelve Apostles for the tyme of the Gospell Yet such you see are the conclusions but in deed the delusions of this blasphemous wretch But see it further in the Church of Corinth vnder the Gospel In which were schismes and dissensions strife envying wrath and backbiting vncleanes and wantonnes fornication and incest hurting and jnjurying one of another abusing of Christian liberty sitting in the Idols temple at the Idols feast declining from the Lords ordinance in the vse of the Sacraments prayer and prophecy denying of the resurrection c. If now this white paynted hypocrite had lived in that age and Church as he did with vs of late would he nothing haue respected their faith their order their constitution wherein they were set by the Apostle but reprochfully have concluded and inferred against them as here he doth saying Are these then this beautifull yea most vvonderfull Church ravishing the senses to conceiue of it are these the Saincts then marching in such a heavenly gracious aray where every stone hath his beauty his burthen and his order where no law is vvrongfully vvrested or vvilfully neglected no truth hid or perverted Thus indeed he shall shew himself to be one of those Ministers of Sathan spoken of in that Epistle who can transforme himself as though he were a Minister of righteousnes whose eâ—d â—hal be according to his workes howsoever fâ—r a tyme he may dâ—lude many poore soules and frustrate their expectation as already he hath done As for W. Ha. E. Ha. whose words as if they were of waight he recordeth he should haue remembred that these his companions are such whose mouth is no sclander two such like as himself poor soules in deed as touching faith and godlynes but abundantly rich so to speak in dissembling lying rayling backbiting c. and therefore fit witnesses for such an accuser their owne sayings fit testimonies against themselues that they never needed to have separated themselues from the Church of England as they did being such also as this society would quickly have thrust them out from among vs so living and practising as they do No marvell then if when they had seen our estate they were frustrate of their expectation therefore returned agayne to the Church of EnglaÌ„d knowing it to be a fit cage for such birds And hitherto of the second head of his Treatise concerning the â—â—scription of a visible Church According to which if we would compare the estate of the Church of England in the members officers worship ministration c. as he hath done ours let the Reader consider whether it would not in truth be found so cleare a testimony against them and their practise as neither he nor all his consorts the Prelates and their chapleynes could ever be able to turn away Neyther that onely but even their own description of a visible Church as it is set downe in their Articles of religion agreed vpon in the yeare 1562. Artic. 19. which is thus The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithfull men in the which the pure word of God is preached and the Sacraments be duly ministred according to Christs ordinance in all those things that of necessity are requisite to the same Which to vse his own words is a
in the worship of God but saith playnly if the coÌ„mandement Deut. 12. be moral which he cannot deny if he hold it morall for the Images and altars that then no civill vse of them may be had at all much lesse spiritual And yet I suppose he will not deny but Iehu the King of Israel put the house of Baal to a lawfull vse 2 King 10.27 7. The seaventh is that whereas we shewed the Dutch here that they vse a new censure of Suspension which Christ hath not appoynted yet we ourselves suspended M. S. many moneths together before his excoÌ„munication But this he should have proved so to have ben The Dutch suspend their members from the Lords supper and yet admit them to participation of the word and prayer so did not we But the case was thus The said Mat. Sl. having declined from the truth which before he professed with vs to sundry errors of the Dutch here it required many dayes to deale with him and convince him in them all which we were carefull to do Now when some of them being handled he was admonished by the Church to repent and returne to the truth and he notwithstanding obstinately persisted against the voyce of Christ so speaking vnto him there were some of vs who thought it not lawfull to have any more spirituall coÌ„munion with him when he came to our publik metings Whereabout there bâ—ing some question and all the particulars being not yet finished it was agreed for the present when he did so come to deale with him about the residue of the poynts yet remaining Which being donne and divers dayes week after week being so imployed for the convincing of him in all the Church did then excoÌ„municate him as here is said and so he remaineth at this day a man overcome with the love of this world here called his preferment and never a whit too good when he was at the best to be of our fellowship which is in the Gospell of Iesus Christ. For which he that thinketh any too good is himself stark naught 8. For the eight about non residency howsoever he speak of Mr Br. his absence frâ—m the Church and this without any leave thereof yet himself knoweth that he with some others of vs was vpon speciall occasion sent by the Church into England and there imployed a long time about that busines Wherein also what good paynes he took with what great carefulnes even this White himself was often a present beholder witnes When he stayed there vpon other occasion he saith it was not so long as here is deceitfully pretended though longer then he or we would have had it and that he could not then possibly do otherwise as things fell out But I will not here insist to speake what may be done in cases of necessitie or speciall occasion or to put difference between factours servants and men agreing together on mutuall conditions nor vpon the difference that is between Ministers of the word and the Deacons and specially the difference between one man having two three or fower benefices as they call them by reason whereof though he be still with some of those Churches yet must he needs be a non resident all his life and between one Church having two three or mo Deacons by meanes whereof though some be absent vpon occasion yet there are other vsually present to performe the duties apperteyning to the office notwithstanding But of these things I will not stand For that which we desier and approve is that he which hath an office should waite on his office Rom. 12.7.8 9. Now followeth the last of his instances but not the least for the lyes and sclanders conteined therein The first particular here spoken of is about this that we blamed in the Dutch Church of this towne that they receive vnrepentant excommunicants to be members of their Church which by this meanes becommeth one body with such as be delivered vnto Sathan But this man had no list to set it downe in our owne words because he hath no love to speak of things as the truth is And if there were no other corruption but this onely in the Church aforesaid let such as are of judgment consider whether we have not just cause to put difference between it the other Churches of these countreyes that stand not in like transgression of which we spake before pag. 25. and whether we which know these things and have had dealing with them thereabout may suffer the members of our Church to joyne with them in this estate in any part of their worship and Ministration be it the preaching of the word or any other whatsoever Yet notwithstanding it is false that he saith we excommunicated our owne members onely for hearing the word preached amongst the Dutch or French for those whome yet we haue cast out hereabout it hath bene partly for their revolting froÌ„ the trueth which they have professed with vs to the corruptions of these Churches which declining as they may shew in hearing the word preached among them in such estate so are we accordingly to esteem thereof and partly for other sinnes withall whereinto they have fallen And a most shamelesly it is that he saith we are our selves one body with an excommunicate from the French Church The party whom he intendeth now one of the Elders of our Church was not excommunicated by them but did himself leave them for their corruptions after he had long much dealt with them in all good manner to the vttermost of his power thereabout they persisted therein notwithstanding The next particular here spoken of is about our dislike of them for that they observe daies and times consecrating certaine dayes in the yeare to the Nativitie Resurrection Ascension of Christ c. Which this adversarie himself knoweth we do not though his conscience be so seared as he careth not how he bely vs and abuse the Reader so he may seem to say something against vs. And straunge it is if he were not impudent out of measure that he is not ashamed to say that we observe their holy dayes as much as they do A thing which is false in both the instances which himself giveth hereabout the one being about the shutting of shops the other about our publick meetings for worship on those dayes For towching the first such of vs as shut their shops do it not in respect of religion or with observance of publick worship as they do but partly thinking it to be a thing civill which may be done at the Magistrats appointment seing no spirituall observation is vrged vpon vs withall partly chusing rather so to do then to pay the penalty whereto otherwise they are lyable it being far more then in compasse of the day they could by their labour obteyn Others of vs do on those dayes follow their ordinary labour some have bene called and have answered it before the Magistrates alledging divers reasons of their
AN INQVIRIE AND ANSVVER Of Thomas VVhite his Discoverie of Brovvnisme By Francis Iohnson Pastor of the exiled English Church at Amsterdam in Holland Psal. 55.12.13.14 Suerly myne enemy did not defame me for I could haue 〈◊〉 it neither did mine adversarie exalt himself against me for I would have hid me frō him But it was thou O man even my companiō my guide my 〈…〉 Which delighted in consulting together and went into the house 〈…〉 companions 1606. TO THE CHRISTIAN READER grace and peace from Christ our Lord Saviour TWo sorts of adversaries the Church still hath among men The one of such as be without the other of such as arise from within the Church it self Both heavie enemies but the latter far the more grievous many wayes By both of them haue we as others before vs ben exercised a long time and in straunge maner Yet in and against them all hath the Lord by his power and of his mercy hitherto preserved vs and I trust will so do vnto the end Of late hath risen vp one Thomas White despitefully reviling vs and wickedly blaspheming the Name and tabernacle of the Lord. A man that was himself heretofore separated from the Church of England holding the Prelacy Ministery worship and confusion thereof to be antichristian VVho also was a joyned member of a Church in the VVest parts of England professing the same faith with vs And afterward coming over to Amsterdam and desiring to be partaker of the Lords supper with vs did in our publick meeting before vs all with his owne mouth testify his consent with vs in the same faith we professe From which he is now revolted and of which he is become a notable adversarie setting himself tooth and nayle what he can against vs and our cause and that both privately publickly as now himself hath manifested to the world So as in himself though it may seem straunge are found both the extremities whereof he speaketh in his Preface which bring no small annoyance to the Church of God hypocrisie and prophanenes His hypocrisie now layd open in the particulars aforesaid and many other knowen vnto vs concerning him His prophanenes plainly appearing both in forsaking the truth of Christ as Esau sold his birthright for a messe of pottage and in oppugning it in this maner which sheweth in him a despising if not a despiting also of the trueth as Esau contemned the birthright when he had sold it And thus the instance which he would falsely give in others may fitly be observed in himself for both the extremities aforesaid As also that howsoever they seem to differ the one from the other yet indeed they strengthen harden each other with a mutuall reciprocation and proceed also the one from the other howsoever for a while envy do cloak it self vnder the name of zeale c. VVhich that it may yet the better appeare both in and from himself I will here set down a letter of his written while he held our cause to a Minister of the Church of England And to vse his owne wordes as Christ alleadged against the Pharisees the example of their owne children that they might be their iudges so will I against himself his own writing dealing that they as his children may be his judges The letter is this which followeth taken from his own originall copie A letter written by Thomas VVhite to Mr I. A. Minister at M. in VViltshire Ps. 7.9.59.2.140.5 Oh let the malice of the wicked come to an end but guide thou the just Deliver me from the wicked doers and save me from the bloudy men The proud have laid a snare for me and spred a net with cords in my pathway and set grennes for me Selah Sir the pillars of the kingdome of darknes haue ben especially three ignorance falsehood and violence How far your self have waded with others in these in your late dealing against vs by sermons conference letters let the sequele shew 1. For the first you in conference at W.VV. would vndertake to prove the reading Ministery to be a true Ministery though you refused to iustify your owne and that by this argument Whosoever preaches the Gospell is a true Minister but the reading Minister preach the Gospell Therefore a true Minister For answer to your argumēt I denyed the first propositiō especially in that sence as you took preaching for any publishing of the Gospel which you presently left without defence But if the reading Ministery be a true Ministery then is it the ordinance of God and if it be the ordinance of God then may not the Magistrate remove such a Ministery vnder any pretence without sinne An ignorant Proctor for an ignorant Ministery an vnfit tyme for such a doctrine of desolation to keep darknes still in the Land when the Lord hath shaken his sword against it 2. Your ignorance further appeares in the expounding of the parable you entreated on Math. 13.24.1 In expounding field for the Church whē as though there by kingdome of heaven be meant the Church yet by field must be meant the world for the kingdome of heavē is in the field except the Church should be in the Church or our Saviours exposition were vntrue verse 38. where field is expounded to be the world 2. In that you would vndertake to expoūd a dark parable not by playne places of Scripture but contrary to the tenour of the Scriptures and ordinance of God both in Church common wealth for if by tares be meant open offenders which may not be plucked vp then may not open offenders be cast out in the Church nor put to death by the Magistrate 3. You said in conference that all that preached the Gospel Act. 8.4 had extraordinary gifts which you went about thus to prove Philip. Act. 8.5 had extraordinary gifts therefore all the rest had Which argument you could not then nor ever will be able to prove the very recitall of it is sufficient answer vnto it 4. And your insufficiency was even confessed by one of your owne fellowes as I heard who when he heard that you were to preach on that parable said that he marvelled that you would vndertake it being so vnfit he would some more sufficient man would vndertake it with many such words tending to the like effect Thus have you shewed your self not alone ignorāt so acknowledged after a sort by some of your selves but also are become an vpholder and pleader for darknes in others But if your dealing had ben alone of ignorance your fault had not ben so great but you have added falsehood deceit therevnto as may appeare 1. In that you were not ashamed openly in the pulpit which you made the chaire of falsehood to teach that excōmunicatiō had no ground from the 18. of Math. contrary to the coherence drift circumstances consequence of that scripture by cōference also with other Scriptures as shal be shewed if you
testimony is nothing els but error and abhomination As also when he saith the errors and abhominations be dayly practised encreased And that not onely in some particular persons but even among the company of the separation and as he speaketh in his Preface in that congregation wherein he would give his instance of prophanenes and hypocrisie This congregation he nameth to be the English company of the separation remayning for the present at Amsterdam Where the Reader is to know that we who by some are termed Brownists of a mans name who heretofore witnessed this cause are by others called the company of the separatioÌ„ because we do separate froÌ„ the Prelacy Priâ—sthood worship Confusion of the Church of England as being Antichristian do also practise the ordinance of Christ which he hath given for the government ministery worship and order of his Church THis for the Title Like therevnto is his Treatise also Where for his generall accusations of debate malice adulteryes cousonages and other enormities c. this may serue in generall to be answered 1. If he meane of some particular persons among vs falling into such sinnes it hath ben and is the case of all the Churches of Christ vpon earth as may be seen in those of Corinth Galatia Ephesus c. And what need or vse els should there be of the rules power given by Christ to his Church for casting out obstinate sinners and receiving the repâ—ntant in againe But if he meane of the body of the Church as if we approved or reteyned such being coÌ„vinced vnrepentant himself knoweth it is a malicious sclander and his own objections afterward in his book of sundry persons whom for their sinnes and obstinacy therein we have cast out from among vs may shew it also to others so to be We are carefull he hath seen it himself that such be not reteyned or allowed among vs. And we find that even our carefulnes herein is abused against vs because when any of vs are knowen to haue fallen into sinne and are dealt with according as the case requireth whether they repent so remayne in the Church or whether they persist in their evill and so are cut of it is still objected against vs and we are published to abound with such sinnes enâ—rmities Thus might the best Churches that ever wâ—re in the world be traduced as hereafter there is further occasion to shew in some particulars 2. For our selues as I said before we confesse and professe it also that we are subiect to sinne and infirmity as other men looking for salvation not by our own righteousnes which is of the Law but onely by the righteousnes which is of God through the faith of Christ. Yet notwithstanding all the sinnes and vnworthynes of vs let this still be held firme at least till vve be soundly confuted that our cause is the truth of the Gospell of Christ witnessed against the errors of the defection of Antichrist 3. The accusations made against vs are to be considered with their proofs which will afterward come to be seen In the meane time let it be observed whether if some would set themselues to collect particular instaÌ„ces of debate malice adulteries cousonages such other like enormities daily coÌ„mitted by many in the Church wherevnto this man is now revolted though they wrote no vntrueths as he doth many but noted onely the truth of things as they are indeed neyther took the space of thirteen or fourteen yeares as he hath done but of any one yeare among them how might they fill I will not say a few sheeds of paper but even many volumes of books therewith And if T. White were asked according to his own words here whether he had not himself partaken with their abominatioÌ„s vnfruitfull works of darknes and whether he would give warning to others of their leaders evill dealing whereby their people are devoured would he not think you verify his own other sayings here shewing himself to be far from repentance seeking to cover hide cloake reproach and revile vsing falsehood shiftings contrarieties etc. All which are knowen to be so true and comon both in himself and the Church whereto he is returned as I need not write thereof at all their estate dealing proclayme it to all that hâ—ue eares to heare and hearts to regard it Our banishment poverty whereof he speaketh encreaseth his their sinne against vs yet much the more For are not they the persons that bring these afflictions vpon vs and is it not onely because we witnesse the truth of our Lord Iesus Christ against the falsehood of Antichrist yet remayning among them in the ministery worship order government of their Church But let them know that he which judgeth iustly the sonnes of men will remember his banished and execute justice and judgment to all that are oppressed For the poore shall not alway be forgotten nor the hope of the afflicted perish for ever And in the meane tyme even in the middest of all our afflictions are we comforted in the Lord for whose sake we endure them great benefit do we further reap by them not only for our own good many other wayes but in this in particular that these our troubles are a speciall meanes to keep discover and remove from among vs a number of hypocrites such as this T. White who if it were not for our poverty and banishment would flock faster vnto vs and lurk longer among vs vnder a painted colour of holynes making show as if they would depart from iniquity call vpon the Name of the Lord and who more then they when in deed their harts be fraight full of the leaven of hypocrisy contention maliciousnes and all maner of iniquity which in such case and estate of things doth oftentimes both sooner and more appeare then otherwise it may be ever would The calumniation of condemning all other Churches and men we haue often answered and cleared heretofore this also knowen to himself Yet thus he writeth that in this as in the rest of his dealing all might see how it is himself that runneth into fearfull extremities and reproacheth with a virulâ—nt and venemous tounge For our selves besides our reverend estimation of other Churches and good perswasion of other men so often published to the world we haue also shewed it in our walking towards them and namely in our dealing with the Dutch â—nd French Churches of this citie as with true Churches Which had we not so esteemed of them we neither could nor would so haue done and dealt with them as we haue THe letter he speaketh of I haue still with me His falsehood and other bad dealing therein I will here omit save onely about the doctrines by him layd vpon vs. 1. The first is that we held it lawfull for a man to live with her that is not his wife rather then to reveale himself This he saith but how
also when any of the Church yea or the whole do transgresse eyther in some thing which yet they have not seen or whereinto now they are fallen they are notwithstanding a true visible Church And by their calling and covenant they have power in Christ to redresse them Which when vpon knowledg they shall refuse and â—o continue then are they to be esteemed according as their case shall require So then to judge rightly of a true Church we must look as the Apostles did at their calling and coÌ„munion in the Gospell Which being observed it wil be easy to put difference between the errours and the constitution of true Churches as Christ and his Apostles did in the Churches of Asia Achaia Galatia c. to reprove them for the one and yet to approue them as true Churches for the other And this also vntill Christ himself remove his candlestick and take away his kingdome from among them which is to be left vnto him to do when as it pleaseth him And this also might serue for answer to the exception drawen from my writing concerning the Israelites in Egypt who sinned with Idols and yet were Gods people But it being so vrged by divers as it is I will note a few things more concerning it in particular The objection is made thus If they coÌ„mitted Idolatry vvith the Idols of Egypt hovv were they then a company of faithfull people separated from all false vvayes I answer By the Lords former calling of them to the obedience of himself who was by covenant the Lord their God and they his people Gen. 12. 17. 46. vvith Exod. 2.23.24.25 3.7 8.15.16 Numb 20.16 Deut. 26.7 Which also is laid as the ground of the admonition for calling of them from that Idolatry spoken of Ezech. 20.7 And may not a people so separated as aforesaid fall into this sinne of Idolatry aswell as into other sinnes See the case of Israel afterward againe Exod. 32. Where Moses in his prayer to God calleth Israell the Lords people even then when they had coÌ„mitted such Idolatry as the Lord would presently have consumed theÌ„ for it Exod. 32.1.10.11 And of Israell againe see what is recorded Iudg. 2. c. And likewise of the Church of Rome which at first was a true Church separated from all false wayes yet fell into this sinne and coÌ„tinueth therein Rom. 1.6.7.8 16.19 vvith Rev. â— 13. and 14. 17. chap. But this was the generall estate of the Israelites at that tyme. What then So may it fall out with a true Church as now hath ben shewed and so we are taught Lev. 4.13.14 Yet here also might be demaunded whether he meane it to be so generall as including all of Israel therein specially considering what is written of some in those tymes Ex. 1. 2. 6 20-27 Numb 1. vvith Heb. 11.23 c. And whether this Idolatry were publike or private like as that spoken of Ezech. 8 12. Zeph. 1.1.4.5 But howsoever their sinne vvas also of obstinacy for they vvere admonished from the Lord yet they rebelled against him as the Scripture sheweth Ezech. 20.7.8 And even the same Scripture sheweth also that for this cause they deserved themselves God thought to haue powred out his indignation vpon them but stayed it in respect of his ovvn Name which is called vpoÌ„*his Churches people not because of their estate as now it was Ezec. 20.7.8.9 And how doth this then overthrow not rather coÌ„firme the desâ—ription aforesaid Or must we not alway desribe esteem a Church by the conditioÌ„ thereof according to the revealed word of God yet leave vnto the Lord to esteem deale therewith notwithstanding as in any respect seemeth good vnto himself Or when God saith he is the Lord their God and calleth them his sonne and first borne whom he might in respect of their own estate cast of can we not so esteem of them but we must therevpon conclude that in the description of a true visible Church Idolatrie and all false wayes are not to be excluded or to speak of the questions controverted at this day that Rome in all her Idolatries is notwithstanding still to be reputed the spouse of Christ and not to be rejected as an harlot and so likewise all the Churches that be her daughters in that estate Againe what if it were as some think that Israell first rebelling and so provoking God to wrath as is aforesaid did afterward through the affliction which by Pharaoh was encreased vpon them turne into their own hart and crie vnto the Lord God of their fathers as we read Exod. 2. and 3. Numb 20.16 Deut. 26.7 should we not then put difference between obstinacy still persisted in that which is afterward repented of amended Not to speak of the Israelites estate in Egypt how in their kindred and families the Church consisted and was governed and how then they had not the word written â—eyther of their estate afterward in the wildernes how God did never so punish theÌ„ for any of their transgressions though of the same nature before his Law given vnto them as he did after as may be observed in the history So teaching all ages succeeding to take speciall heed to his written word according to it to esteem walk in all things Wherefore to end this point thus I think that for Israel all other people and Churches we are bound alwayes so to esteem and walk as by the word of God we have direction and vvarrant from him and neyther to judge nor vvalk othervvise And as Christ giveth to all true Churches their being so to leave vnto him to take it away when and as he pleaseth And for this case of Israel in particular let me further aske whether such of the Israelites as should now have left that Idolatry spoken of ought not also to have left coÌ„munion therein with the rest so transgressing and yet to have left them to the Lord to esteem and deale with them as in any respect should seem good vnto himself For that which he objecteth next out of the Preface to the last answ to Mr Ia. sect 6. it is concerning Churches wilfully persisting in errour and disobedience of the trueth and voice of Christ and shewed by the example of the Churches of the Iewes 〈…〉 â—â—â—son objected about them by D.B. For which I refer the Reader to that Preface sectioÌ„ together with that which is said in the answer to the 4. section of the same Preface and more particularly to that which I haue written about this poynt in the booke it self pag. 161.195.196 in the answer to Mr A.H. pag. 61.62 Where the Reader shall fynd what I haue written and what my judgment is concerning this matter namely that all good and lawfull meanes being first vsed towards true Churches fallen into sinne if they amend not but wilfully persist therein the Lord hath threatned to remove the candlestick
them wee haue alwaies shewed it And this more particularly as we have had more special occasion in our dealing with the Dutch French Churches of this City When some of their members haue left them because of their corruptions and come to joyne themselues vnto vs we haue required such first to deale with them as with true Churches alway should be done namely to advertise the Elders first and then the whole body of the Church whereof they were if they might be suffered of the corruptions for which they thought to leaue them Which we require not of such as come vnto vs from any false Church Also when some of our Church have gone vnto them and declined from the truth which they professed with vs vnto their corruptions we haue had dealing thereabout with the Elders both of the Dutch and French Churches of this towne that were by the rest of their Elderships deputed therevnto before we would proceed with the parties for this their revolt and transgression And when the Dutch Church here received such to be members of them as our Church excommunicated for their sinnes we also admonished their Elders hereof desiring that by themselves or by vs knowledg of these things might be given to the whole body of their Church Which course of dealing we vse not with any false Church or the Ministers thereof But to insert here in particular the dealing that hath passed between vs them of this towne would be to long their corruptions whereabout we have dealt with them are already published By which and this that hath here bene said let the Reader judg whethâ—r we haue not cause to put differeÌ„ce between them the other Churches of these countries not so dealt withal For not hearing of them in other of their Congregations in these countreys this I answer That seeing by the mercy of God we haue seen and forsaken the corruptions yet remayning in the publick ministration and condition of these Churches if they be al like to them of this city we therefore cannot partake with them in such case without declining and apostasy from the truth which we haue our selues already received and professed This also I speak of the members of our Church so walking and witnessing as is aforesaid and not of the members of their owne Churches whose duty I think it is before they may leaue them for their corruptions first to signify them vnto them and by al good meanes to seek the redresse therof among them as being members of the same body with them Which I take also to be the duty of all such as haue knowledge of their corruptions and being not of them yet would coÌ„municate with them in their publick administration And this for true Churches But as for any false these are not the duties or rules prescribed for them but other of a far differing nature namely when once we see their abhominations to separate from them without delay and to witnesse against them even vnto death The further declaration whereof with confirmation from the Scriptures the Reader may have in divers of our Treatises already published about our cause As in the Refut of Mr. Giff. In the Answ. to Mr. A.H. pag. 61. c. But he provoketh me yet further and saith If he can let him name any one Church on the face of the earth now that holdeth not false waies yea even in their constitution in their account Although I might answer as before that the calling of Christ and the Churches covenant to walk in the faith of his Gospell excludeth al false wayes in all true Churches whether as yet seen or vnseen and therfore in the Reformed Churches so acknowledged by vs yet because he presseth me so earnestly to name but any one Church on the face of the earth I wil giue the instance of that Church in the west parts of England whereof himself was a joyned member when he separated from the Church of England and held the same faith with them and vs from which he is now apostate And let him now name any false way holden by them in their constitution in our account Of the distinction to be observed between faulty false worship I haue spoken here before As also of his blaspheming the Christians and their Churches despising neighbours and robbing Christ himself of his honour And now by that which hath ben said let the Reader obserue how true it is in himself that after al his earnest endevour not alone to wound but even to kill others if he could he hath turned the poynt of his weapon into his owne bowels Which will also yet further appeare in that which followeth in his particular objection against the Church whereof we are our selues which he saith is not agreable to our description aforesaid Against our selues the proof he bringeth is this that he saith vve are not separate from al open offenders and all false vvayes and to shew this he produceth many particular persons and matters I answer admitting al he saith against vs both the generall and particulars were true yet notwithstanding the description aforesaid should stand good and our Church also agreable therevnto For this yet should be the errour of our practise not of our covenant or calling in Christ According to which we are alway to esteem or Churches as we haue â—hewed before Otherwise to reason as this man doth against vs were to condemne those Churches of Asia Galatia Corinth and all that ever haue bene from the beginning to this day But to come to the particulars his first allegation is that he saith we reteyne among vs open offenders and for instance the first he nameth is one Cast. noted publikly in our meeting for cousonage c. A man that is of the Church of England and so was a good while before this book of Whites was published Sometyme in deed he lived among vs here but after a while began to be so noted and dealt with as fynding the Church to be no harbour for him but that he must walk better or be cast out from among vs he returned to England where he knew he might be reteyned in that Church and where Th. White his fellow will no doubt brook him well ynough But further he saith the Elders here defended that he ought not to be publiklie dealt withall for it because it was not orderly made publik Indeed we hold that private sins should privatly be dealt with if any bring in publick without private dealing going before according to the rule given by Christ Math 18.15.16 we suffer it not but rebuke them that so walk Wherevpon this White himself being by one of the brethren reproved for so dealing with the party aforesaid it seemeth still to stick on his stomack and the more because afterward vpon speach thereof my self with the rest of the Elders signifyed our dislike of such disorderly and evill walking Touching his repentance such as were then
when as the one of them denyed the fact which she had before confessed to two of the brethren the other in the iudgment of the Church shewed himself vnrepentant many wayes which I will not here mention And if he do not shew them to haue repented how hath he proved that for which he alledged them Besides that there were also other causes for which they were excommunicated As for that which he saith divers of vs have accused themselues of adultery that so they might be ridde of their wives this also he should have proved and not onely haue said it For we know that the persons whome he nameth W. H. and T. C. haue said and avouched earnestly that they did it not to that end but being perswaded that they ought not to continue with their wiues having by their adulterie broken the bond of mariage between them Besides if by him or any it could be proved so to be as he saith he knoweth we would not beare with such wickednes but deale with them according to their demerit howsoever without all shame he do thus abuse vs. And here by the way let me a little note this mans crossing of himself and bad dealing against vs still Before in the beginning of his book he imputed vnto vs abounding with adulteries and that above others as if it were a sinne common and borne withall among vs and this also more then among others Yet here now his objectiō against vs about the case of adultery is such as any may see he thinketh we haue ben too severe therein and that aboue others What this our opinion was is shewed before Wherein although we have chaunged our iudgment as is aforesaid yet even this particular sheweth how greatly we haue alway detested that sinne and how contrary this White is to himself that he might by any meanes deale wretchedly against vs. 3. The third thing is that he saith we haue altered many things which we held in our constitution as among other that it was not lawfull for Apostates to beare office He saith many things yet nameth but one Towching which I might answer that although many of vs did in deed so take it yet it was not here so generally received by all as he seemeth to suppose because that as there was divers times occasiō of question about it there were of the brethren that shewed themselues to be diversely mynded but at length the matter being often and much vrged we did thus agree about it That we think it not meet to chuse such into office as haue before tyme declyned frō the truth without good caution first had thereabout As namely 1. That there be consideration had both of the nature of the thing done of the quality of the person of the estate of the Church 2. That the Church have good and due tryall of such being returned afore they chuse them into office 3. That with these cautions the fittest be taken into office whom God giveth in the present estate of the Church And all these things so mynded and observed of vs as if at any time a better way be shewed out of the word of God we be ready to receive it in the Lord. This is that whereof hitherto we have agreed about this matter the particulars whereof there will be occasion to set downe more at large hereafter But now admitting that the whole Church held it not lawfull for such to beare office afterward altered it as here he saith yet was this alteration but of our judgement and practise not of the Churches constitution as I haue shewed before and therefore his collection herevpon that we held false wayes in our constitution by consequent then were no true Churches is both false frivolous 4. The fourth he propoundeth as a question saying of vs What would it profit them to b◠free from false wayes in their constitution ◠their practise be not according to their profession But the question and point here treated on is whether the description aforesaid be true or not and whether we our selues be a true Church according vnto it If we erre in practise is it therefore a false description or we a false Church The Churches of Asia and Achaia erred greatly in their practise were they not therefore true Churches according to the said description But yet where the practise is not according to the profession it makes the sinne the more grievous True and therefore Tho White his sinne is vnspeakably grievous as all they do know who haue seen what great and earnest profession of the truth he hath made heretofore from which now he is grievously fallen But for our selues he asketh further sith their knowledg is but in part aswell as their love are not they aswell as others subiect to erre in constitution aswell as practise If he meane in judgment aswell as practise we graunt it and we haue alwayes professed it howsoever he write against vs as if we were such as professed perfection of knowledg and practise in this life from which errour himself knoweth vs to be as far as we know him to be from trueth and godlynes But if he meane by our constitution the way of God wherein we are set the calling of Christ with the Churches covenant which giveth being vnto the Church then I answer that difference must be put between the way of God it self and our weak walking therein between the calling of Christ together with the covenant of the Church our sinning and transgressing in our owne wayes notwitstanding between the Church considered in Christ the head thereof in whom we are washed from all our sinnes guyded in in the way of truth and preserved to eternall life and between the Church considered in the members thereof as we are in our selves every one sinfull and subject daily to erre both in judgment and practise And this not onely in the members severally but in all of vs ioyntly together If this distinction be not observed who can shew that ever there was or can be true Church vpon the earth or how we can haue true comfort in this life to our selves or esteem and discerne aright between things that differ as we ought And if it be observed any may see that all his exceptions against vs are of no moment It is not our knowledg or practise but our calling covenant in Christ that secludeth in our constitution all false and evill wayes whether as yet seen or not For which cause also I need not here stand vpon his needles and erroneous discourse about that which he calleth a shift though in deed it be a point much to be respected namely that a true Church must be separate from all false wayes which they see For as I haue shewed alreadie we ought if we will consider aright of a Church to look at their calling and covenant in Christ which is from all false wayes whatsoever seen or vnseen to the obedience of
faith Howsoever therefore we haue erred or may erre in judgment or practise as we and all men in this life are alway subiect to do yet doth it not therefore follow eyther that the description aforesaid is not good or that we are not a true Church notwithstanding Further towching our selues we acknowledge professe before all men that divers things heretofore obserued amoÌ„g vs at the first we have since altered and do from tyme to time alter and amend as God giveth vs by his word to discerne better therein Yea and herevnto are we bound and haue power in Christ even by the constitution of our Church So free from all false wayes is the constitution it self and yet we that are in it subiect to erre notwithstanding many wayes So far are we also from the straunge opinion and impietie of them that having in this latter age of the world disclaymed the Popâ—s person and recâ—ivâ—d some truthes of the Gospell yet reteyning many abhominations of Antichrist withall would now stand still and admit of no further proceeding or alteration among them As if they had at first seen received the whole truth and all the ordinances of Christ. Or as if Antichrist should not now by degrees be discovered and consumed as heretofore he rose vp and was exalted 2 Thes. 2. Rev. 14. and 17. and 18. and 19. chap. with Ier. 51.25.26.45.46 And now by that which hath bene said let the Reader obserue whether this fellow haue not entrapped himself and his mother Church while he thought to haue ensnared vs. Neyther let any be so simple as to give credit in the cause of religion to any further or otherwise but as warrant and confirmation is brought out of the word of God which is the ground and rule of all trueth nor to refuse that which is approved by it for the aberration opposition or calumniation of any whosoever they be His abuse both here and other where in his book of that which we haue published in print I leave also to the Reader to observe and for himself to answer to him that knoweth his heart As for I. N. whom he nameth in particular more then others whom he would insinuate for borrowing and making no conscience to pay againe he hath called him before the Magistrates here as others before mentioned affirming offring to shew how in the very particular alledged by White when he was here demaunded his proof for thus divulging him he hath offred his creditour goods sufficient for his debt with overplus and having had to deale with him for much hath satisfyed all to a little yet remayning having also had hindrance by the sicknes and otherwise And for the generall we acknowledg that men ought to be carefull both how they borrow and how they pay againe and should measure these as all other affaires with judgment and conscience according to godlynes Psal. 37.21 and 112.5 Rom. 13.8 And we know also that yet notwithstanding it is the case sometime of men fearing God not onely to be but even to dy in debt As we read of one of the sonnes of the Prophets 2 King 4.1 But all this which hitherto he hath said being not ynough eyther for the vent of his owne rancour and malice against vs or to please our adversaries whose favour he would purchase by traducing of vs he now further pretendeth to frame an opposition between our practise the Treatise entituled A true description out of the vvord of God of the visible Church thus setting himself to seek and abuse against vs whatsoever he can out of any of our writings To shew his wicked dealing herein as it is would require to insist vpon the particulars of that description and to compare therewith the estate and walking of our Church that would aske a long treatise which here I purpose not It shall suffice that the Reader especially such as haue knowledg of our Church which he blameth and of the Church of England to which he is returned do compare them both with that description and accordingly esteem of both as he shall fynd the estate of them to be in deed and in truth Thereby also will plainely appeare how this adversarie neither writeth nor walketh in the feare of God to whom notwithstanding he must giue account of al these things And for the particulars he mentioneth that the equitie of our cause and iniquitie of his dealing may better appeare I will in the treating of them first set down the words of that description from whence he would draw his opposition and then speak of the particulars themselues And first for the body of the Church considered in her parts as here he would seem to except against vs from one to another through the severall parts of this body thus it is set downe in that description of a true Church Pag. 2. Suerly if this Church be considered in her parts it shall appeare most beautifull yea most wonderfull and even ravishing the senses to conceive much more to behold what then to enioy so blessed a communion For behold her King and Lord is the King of peace and Lord himself of all glorie She enioyeth most holy and heavenly lawes most faithfull vigilant Pastours most sincere pure Teachers most carefull and vpright Governours most diligent and trustie Deacons most loving and sober Relievers and a most humble meek obedient faithfull loving people every stone living elect and precious every stone hath his beautie his burden and his order All bound to edify one another exhort reproue comfort one another lovingly as to their owne members faithfully as in the eyes of God Thus it standeth in that description Towching which now I would aske 1. Whether he hold this description herein to be true and agreable to the word of God 2. Whether he dare deny Iesus Christ to be the King and Lord of our Church 3. Whether he acknowledg him onely to be the King Lord of every true visible Church vpon the earth 4. Whether these be the Offices and functions which he as Lord and King hath appointed to his Church namely Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Relievers 5. Whether these be had in the Church of England to which he is now gone and in whom they are there to be found 6. Whether the Church Officers there be so qualified as here is set downe 7. Finally whether if any would compare the estate of that Church in the body officers members lawes and walking thereof with the description of a true visible Church out of the word of God he might not make another maner treatise and other maner of obiections against them then this Priest of theirs doth against vs. But to proceed for the Pastor with which office he beginneth first thus are his qualities and duties set down in that descriptioÌ„ of a true Church Pag. 3. Their Pastour must be apt to teach no yong Schâ—ler able to divide the word aright holding fast that
that his work may endure the triall of the fyer and by the light of the same fire reveale the Tymber Hay Stubble of false Teachers He must take diligent heed to keep the Church from errours And further he must deliver his doctrine so plainly simplie purely that the Church may increase with the increasing of God and grow vp vnto him which is the head Christ Iesus Hitherto is that description wherein the qualities and duties set downe be many and great 1. Yet cannot this Adversarie satisfy himself with them all as he would and therefore coming to make exceptions against the Teacher he fetcheth his first out of the generall description of the Church spoken of before objecting that the Teacher is sleyned with hypocrisie and to proue it he alledgeth his dealing concerning G. I. M. Sl. Yet sheweth it not so much as in any one particular thinking belike that some are so simple in themselues or so set against vs as they will take his word for proof sufficient who â—eyther knoweth that dealing himself in the things which he knoweth can ly so notoriously as if he had the art of lying and would be a teacher thereof vnto others 2. The second thing he objecteth is apostasie because that many yeares since having received this cause he did sometimes yeeld to heare the Ministery of the Church of England But synce that tyme hath so approved himself among vs both in the witnesse of the trueth in the service of the Church as hath ben for the great help and comfort of vs all and my self in particular bound to testify concerning him as Paul did of Marcus Barnabas sisters sonne that that he hath ben my workfellow vnto the kingdome of God which hath ben to my consolation Col. 4.10.11 For the question it self and our account of Apostasie I shall write more particularly hereafter 3. The third thing is that he saith he hath ben a meanes to bring in and defend false doctrines But what be they First The latter of those two before mentioned Now that latter was about apostasie in the matter aforesaid So as then himself accounteth them to be apostates that having held our cause do afterward yeeld to heare the Ministery of the Church of England and that it is a false doctrine that any such may afterward beare office in the Church And what then is this Whites own case who being a Minister of the Church of England left both that Church and Ministery and received our cause and witnessed the trueth against them and yet now hath yeelded not onely to heare but even to execute himself the Ministerie of that Church againe But he will say that among the Errata at the end of his book he noted this for one that for the word latter we should here read former I have obserued it and well in deed might he note it amoÌ„g his Errata who even while he would blame others of errour doth so straungely erre himself as to put latter for former one contrarie for another But this might be an oversight as often falleth out in printing which therefore I would not haue noted but that I think there is a worse thing in it namely that at first he both wrote and meant it of the latter which is about apostasie vntill he had himself apostate from the tâ—ueth and executed agayne his Ministery received from the Prelates in England and therevpon now would alter it measuring the doctrines of religion not by the word of God but as may best serue his own turne And I am perswaded the rather thus to think for these reasons 1 because when he began to set himself to be an enemie of this Church and could not prevaile as he desired he then began to make question about apostasie whether any such might beare office in the Church 2. If we vnderstand it here of the former as his Errata now would haue it read it is nothing to the purpose at all seing there is in it no speach of any points of doctrine but of hypocrisie and seing an hypocrite may notwithstanding teach true doctrine For els it would follow that neither Iudas nor White himself did heretofore teach true doctrine when they preached because Iudas was and he is an hypocrite both of them through hypocrisie betraying Christ into the hands of his enemies His other proof of false doctrines which he pretendeth is set down after his woonted manner others that may be alledged yet not naming any which no doubt he would have done if he could or if he durst adventure the triall of them with the Teacher of our Church whom he thus envieth and abuseth who notwithstanding for his learning wisdome and godlynes as also for his faithfull teaching of the Church and vpright walking toward all is so well knowen approued as neither he nor we need regard any adversaries malice opposition against him After this he commeth from the teaching to the ruling Elders whose properties and duties are thus noted in the description abovesaid Pag. 4. Their Elders must be of wisedome and iudgment endued with the Spirit of God able to discerne between cause and cause between plea and plea and accordingly to prevent and redresse evils alwayes vigilant intending to see the statutes ordinances and lawes of God kept in the Church and that not onely by the people in obedience but to see the Officers do their duties These men must be of life likewise vnreproveable governing their own families orderly they must be also of maners sober gentle modest loving temperate c. And afterward againe pag. 5. Their especiall care must be to see the ordinaunces of God truely taught practised aswell by the Officers in doing their dutie vprightly as to see that the people obey willingly and readily It is their dutie to see the Congregation holily and quietly ordered and no way disturbed by the contentioâ—s and disobedient froward and obstinate not taking away the libertie of the least but vpholding the right of all wiselie iudging of times and circumstances They must be ready assistaunts to the Pastour and Teachers helping to beare their burden but not intruding into their office Thus is the description Now towching our Elders he taketh here his exception against two of them The first is Mr Da. St. against whom it may be he is the more eagerly caryed because he discerned so quickly into him being a notable white hypocrite and dealt so plainly roundly with him as he did And therefore also excâ—pteth not a word against him for his ability to discerne into persons and causes and to deale with them accordingly nor for sundrie other of the properties and duties here required though they be many and waighty Yet some things he speaketh of which he had twise before besides that which he hath also hereafter so as I need not repeat and speak of them as he doth againe and againe Yet somewhat more I will note here touching the particulars
cleare testimony a pregnant sentence of condemnation against themselves and their practise Of which also I have otherwhere spoken heretofore which yet reâ—ayneth vnanswered Of the third head of Th White his Treatise THe third is that he saith we condemne others in those things that we would and do practise our selves Which he pretendeth to shew in divers instances 1. The first is For communicating with open offenders For which he refererth to that which is before shewed and so do we Adding this further that our Church is so far from communicating with such as it excommunicateth them when once they are convinced and found obstinate which himself knoweth to be true 2. The second is for making men swear to accuse themselves A thing which neyther my self practised to I. L. as here he falsely objecteth neyther is at all practised among vs eyther publikly or privately that I know of And for the matter of incest so reproachfully divulged against Mr St. this man knoweth himself that Rose White his own wife was the rayser of that opprobrious report that he had lyen with hiâ— wives daughter and that she both confessed it vnto me her self could not deny it here before the Magistrates when she was by Mr St. now of late brought before them about it as this man himself also is for a sclanderer as I shewed before For his not denying it for the clearing of himself though he were requested for the satisfying of weak brethren so to do he saith that he remembreth it not But being thus dealt withal he hath written this answer himself which here I will annex out of his owne writing given vnto me hereabout The malice and envie of this T. W. against me Da. Stud. hath appeared to be exceding great both in his often speaking of me in his book as he hath done and especially in this place where making an end of mentioning my name he thought he vvould powre forth his rancour to the full Therefore thus he saith Yet would not their Elder Da. Stud. never so much as deny the matter of incest with his wives daughter for the clearing of himself though hee were requested for the satisfying of weake bretheren so to do In these words of his he would make the vvorld beleive as if some came vnto me in frendly vvise to know vvhether I had committed incest or no and as if they required my direct answere vnto it for the satisfijng of weak bretheren To vvhich his vvords I answere First thus That there never came any so vnto me as he falsely forgeth and therefore herein he lyeth egregiously Secondly I aske vvhy he did not set downe vvhat my answere vvas to such as he insinuateth came vnto me For if my answer vvere evil no doubt he vvould not haue spared to sett it dovvn if it vvere good they vvould and ought to have rested in it Further it is to be mynded that he hath not named them that came vnto me vvhich if he had done himself saw that then his wickednes vvould the more appeare Thirdly this I do affirm That such as have spoken vnto me about this slander and reproch raysed of me in any christian and orderly manner I have answered them to their full satisfaction and to such as disorderly and reprochfully have spoken to me thereof I have mynding the persons as I esteemed them eyther passed by them with silence or else vrged them to do the vvorst they could vnto mee being ready to answere them according to their dealing vvith me as I have now endevoured to do vvith this T. W. Rose his vvife the first author of this accusation vvhom I have called before the Magistrates for slandring of me Fourthly being thus provoked by him my answer now is That if T.W. vvith his father if he vvere living being reputed to have skill in the black art had the help of him and of all the divells in hell ioyned together yet should he never be able to prove this his vvicked slander vpon me Moreover I vvould demaund these things of T.W. as followeth First vvhether he vvill denye that his father spake thus of him I misse my ayme if ever this my sonn T.W. do proue a good man Secondly vvhether he wil deny that he knowes not some that can tell of his evill dealing about Clokes Thirdly vvhether he vvill deny that he hath not dealt yll vvith some about a Bible Fourthly vvhether hee vvill deny that he hath committed the like sinne as T.C. hath vvhom he mentioneth in his book Lastly I ask him vvhether if he do not presently deny these things or any the like that by any shal be demaunded of him he be content to have it taken for granted that then he is gilty of them If this be his iudgment let him take it to himself as vvise as he vvill be othervvise mynded And thus I leave him this his dealing and account thereof to him that iudgeth righteously and so end vvith this saying An hypocrite with his mouth hurteth his neighbour but the righteous shal be delivered by knowledg Da. St. 3. In the third he hath againe cowched divers vntruths together As when he saith we condemne the Dutch Churches for baptising the seed of those that are not members of their Church Which is not so but we dislike in the Dutch Church of this towne that they baptise the seed of them who are not members of any visible Church and besides admit not the parents themselves to the Lords supper Great difference there is between these two not to be members of their Church and not to be members of any visible Church And this it seemeth himself perceived and therefore kept not our words as he had them set downe in the book alledged by himself But yet more in that he saith my self with the rest could offer to receive Mr Deuxburies child to baptisme who neither was neyther would ioyne himself a member vnto vs. For Mr Deuxb who dwelt about fifteen miles from vs being desirous that we would baptize his child we wrote vnto him that we could not admit of it vnles he would make profession of the same faith with vs be careful so to walk eyther with vs or with some other Church in the same truth of the Gospel as God for his dwelling estate should give him opportunity Which he not performing we baptized not his child And of this refusal of ours himself spake but a day or two before his death to one of the meÌ„bers of our Church a soldier who was then with him in the army where he was slayne Which things being so how then should it be as he saith further that we were offended at G I. for withstanding it when we our selves so wrote and dealt in it as is aforesaid Or how had he any hand in this busines when Mr Deuxb writing to one of the Elders had answer from them all ioyntly of whome he was none 4.
office and the thing before this tyme not knowen to the Church concerning him although if it had bene knowen consideration were to be had of the nature of the thing done of the condition of the person of the estate of the Church and other the like circumstances to be observed thereabout that both before and after his being in office he had well approved himself to and with the Church to the great help comfort of vs all c. 2. Yet notwithstanding they persisted and left of to participate with the Church in all his ministration therin 3. We entreated them that they would not so walk but to continew with vs as before at least till we might eyther among our selves or by others have further help and dealing about this matter but they would not Wherevpon they were for this leaving of communion with the Church together with other causes which he noteth not cast out and some of them a good while synce vpon their repentance received in againe For that which he saith of not answering the reasons in writing note these things 1. We were absent from the Church when we wrote the reasons aforesaid in a letter sent hither but now were here present with the Church to speak mouth to mouth with any that did or should make question thereabout 2. We also signified that if it were so that we were absent having like occasion as before we would then write as before we had done but being now present to speak and reason together we thought it best so to do Not to speak any thing now of the persons and their dealing that would have it otherwise 3. Yet when the matter was still vrged we further advised agreed about it of some particular circuÌ„stances or cautions to be observed therin Which were set down in writing and given to the ruling Elders for any that would come to read or reason thereabout And vpon occasion we gave the same also in writing to the Eldership of the Dutch Church here These things T. White himself knoweth and heretofore thought it sufficient to satisfy any that were reasonable howsoever now he write thereof And where he saith we would not suffer the reasons to be read in our meeting being requested there vnto sometimes in deed we did not suffer it wishing the parties that were contrary minded vnto vs to shew their reasons out of the word of God whether they were those conteyned in that writing or any other and so to reason from that ground which is the onely rule of our faith sometimes also for the more satisfying of all they were both read and reasoned of in our publik meeting As for playing Sathans part let him apply it to himself who hath heretofore both by word and writing out of the Scriptures approved our cause against the Antichristian estate of the Church of England and having now left and oppugning it yet hath not nor ever can vse as good meanes to disprove it and to approve the estate of that Church whither he is returned With whom also it is so common throughout his book to obiect against vs things very false to conceale or deprave the things he knoweth to be good and all this to calumniate the truth and vs that wiâ—nesse it before the world For that which he annexeth of Mr Ad. such as were here present do neyther remember it nor think it to be true howsoever he affirme it And if it had so bene yet who knoweth not that alteration of practise doth vsually follow alteration of judgement And if in other cases why not in this also Finally we do here know but in part are subiect to erre both in our judgment and in our walking as I deny not but in these things thus much vrged vpon vs we may have done Yet our desire hath bene and I trust shal be alway to try all things by the word of God and to keep that which is good 4. The fourth instance is of W.A. cast out for recalling a former Schisme spoken of a little before in his first instance Whatsoever W.A. now say the Church heard and see what then he spake did If he do still repent of that Schisme standing to the acknowledgemeÌ„t he made that matter is soone ended To the writing of Th. White and others about this matter this answer was given by the Elders which the messengers can testify that it being about excomunicatioÌ„ it was a matter which coÌ„cerned the whole body of the Church and therefore if they had any thing to say thereabout they should come to the Church at our publick meeting and there they should have an answer But thither came they not So themselves kept back an answer from themselves And still Th. VVhite keepeth on his course to write falselie What the schisme here spoken of was whereabout see before pag. 65. As for appealing seing it is from an inferior Iudge to a superiour we hold it Antichristian to enterteyne or admit of such appeales from one Church to another because Christ the Lord hath given like equall power authority to all his Churches on the earth Yet notwithstanding may and ought one Church to help another by any good meanes they can as there is occasion But what is this to the appealing and tryall whereof he speaketh when such as be excoÌ„municated by this Church would have their matters and the like submitted to the Dutch and French Churches here or any other els where For which themselves could not by the word of God shew any warrant And against which we had have these reasons following 1. That the Iudge which God hath ordeyned in these cases is to be submitted vnto and not to any other Deut. 17.8.9.10.11.12 2. That the highest Iudge ordeyned now of the Lord for all sinners by Ecclesiasticall censure is the Church even that particular Church whereof the sinner is a member Mat. 18.17 with 1 Cor. 5.4.5.12.13 3. That all Churches of Christ haue equall power and are not one over another but have Christ himself over all and in middest of all Rev. 1.13 2.1 And therefore in vrging our Church to submit to another Church they sought to draw it into AntichristiaÌ„ bondage which we might by no meanes yeeld vnto Gal. 5.1 Rev. 14.9.12 4. The sinne and sinner being bound in heaven how may the cause be submitted to men on earth Mat. 18.18 5. If the censures of the Church then also other doctrines of the Gospell our faith in Christ might aswell by the same ground be brought to like submission 6. It is contrary also to the Confession of our faith published Artic. 24.25 7. And this way there would be no end of strife for if the two Churches disagreed a third higher must be sought vnto by like reason and if yet they agreed not an higher then that and thus might the vsurped Supremacy of the Romish Church and Pope grow and be established 8. Finally if we might
would assent yet these Dutch French Churches do not heare any such matters but they are heard and handled onely by the Eldership by them erroneously put in place of the wholâ— Church as we have had experience vpon other occasions Now though we might not for these and like reasons submit as they required yet we also signifyed that if these Churches or Ministers or any els whosoever could shew vs by the word of God to have faulted in any thing we were willing and ready to heare them These are our reasons and this is our refusall and walking in such cases Which this White knoweth full well and therefore his sinne is the greater to write and deale notwithstanding as he doth 5. The fift instance which is about receiving the penitent offenders in cases of adultery is spoken of before pag. 32.33 To which I refer the Reader will now onely aske of him whether he would have any to reteyne vnrepentant adulterers and adulteresses and so to partake in their sinne It may be some of his Lords the Prelates can quickly take him out as bad lessons as this specially he being so apt a scholler for such Maisters Yet may not we reteyne such members in our Church And if we should what exclamations would he make against vs as in deed justly he might Here therefore mark the wickednes of this Impe of Sathan common to him with such enemies of the truth and Church If any stand from and against the Church be they never so lewd wicked he is ready to favour partake with them But if any continue with the Church though they repent of their sinnes as David he will not cease to maligne and abuse them yea to defame the whole Church therby as if it were a company of adulterers c. as before in his book hath appeared 6. The sixt instance is of his owne wife Rose White excommunicated for two things though he mention but one 1. First for not bringing her childe to baptisme 2. For falling from the truth which she had professed with vs to the corruptions of the Dutch Church here where she ioyned her self a member And the man he speaketh of her husband is himself matches one for another For the abuses which he speaketh of to give an instance was not one of them our observing of that rule Mat. 18.15.16.17 in such maner as we do For which when he had reproved the Church and was after a weeks respiâ—e called vpon for his proof he was glad openly in the Church to say he was vnprovided and came no more to our meetings to prove it at any tyme afterward Yet such is his face as he will boast of his reproving abuses amongst vs. Towching his wives alleadging of the example of Timothees mother that did not circumcise him and no other cause mentioned but that his â—ather vvas a Grecian he saith she could get no answer whereas the whole congregation then present knoweth how many things were answered about it sundry reasons vsed about this case of not bringing her child to Baptisme vpon her husbands forbidding As That the covenant of grace made with the Church in Christ was without respect of persons or sexe there being in him neyther male nor female Gal. 3.28 and therefore though the father should refuse or neglect the mother hath right and ought to present That she might not deprive her seed of the sacrament of Baptisme vpon her husbands will any more then her self of the Lords supper if he should forbid her because that by the believing womaÌ„ the children are clean as well as by the believing man 1 Cor. 7. â—4 she now being of our church her husband not we were to call vpon her for performance of her duty That baptisme was a signe of incorporating into Christ and salvation by his death and resurrection so as her neglect of baptising her child could not but be iniurious both to Christ and it When these the like perswasions were vsed vnto her and she had nothing to answer but asked why then Timothees mother did not circumcise her child our Teacher as he remembreth answered that the cause was not certainly knowen for it was not expressed in the scripture If she were living and present we would demaund of her self but she is now dead and gone wherefore it were hard for vs to determine of the cause but this Ro. White was living and present must give account of her own wayes That we must not walk by example but by law of God for even the most righteous may offend Moses himself faulted in neglecting the circumcising of his sonne Exod 4. And if Timothees mother being a Iewesse did mary with a Gentile an infidel who therefore would not suffer her to circumcise her sonne she obeyed him that such mariages were forbidden of God and vnlawfull And then she sinning in marying with him why might she not also sin in keeping her child vncircumcised for him if that were the cause as now this woman pretended Wherefore she was put in minde rather of the examples of other good women as Abigail 1 Sam. 25. the elect Lady 2 Ioh. Epist. also of some spoken of in the Machabees though that book be Apocrypha which lost their liues for causing their children to be circumâ—ised 1 Mach. 1.63 2 Mach. 6.10 It was also demaunded by some of vs how it could be shewed otherwise but that Timotheâ—s mother might be in the faith of the Gospell before he was born and he in that respect might be vncircumcised Also whether the women in Noahs tyme should have refused to enter into the Arke or the women of Israell in Moses tyme to go themselves with their childen through the red sea if their husbands had bene against it Both which were types and resemblances of our baptisme as the Scripture sheweth 1 Cor. 10.1.2 1 Pet. 3.20.21 These and the like reasons being then shewed and spoken of and now vpon this occasion thus noted downe let the Reader here consider of this mans dealing and his wives and accordingly esteem thereof as now he findeth it to be His scoffing at the Teacher of our Church not onely for his words then vsed but even at the office it self which he executeth and therein at the ordinance of Christ hurteth not him nor vs but encreaseth this skorners sinne judgement vpon his owne head For that which he saith of myself I did in deed with hold my consent towching the first cause of her excommunication about the childes baptizing making some doubt about the case aforesaid partly in respect of the husbands authority over his family partly because of the objections arising about the case Scriptures alledged out of Act. 16.3 c. Yet notwithstanding I gave my coÌ„sent as touching the second cause thereof for her falling from the truth to their corruptions here And that so as I said also I was willing for it to pronounce the
termed our Buls of excoÌ„munications Suerly God that will not hold him guiltles that taketh his Name in vaine will never suffer such prophanation of his Name and ordinance to go in vaine Such deâ—iding and despising of the Lord and his ordinances is fearfull And a fearfull thing it is to fall into the hands of the living God All his Lords the Prelates authority and authorizing of his book to be published as himself alledged here before the Magistrates will not help him before the Lord who is a consuming fier From whom what can he or any so persisting look for els but to be cast out from his presence and to have their portion among the cursed to heare that fearfull sentence Go ye cursed into everlasting fier which is prepared for the Divell and his Angels Mat. 25.41 And thus hath this Esau shewed himself to be one of those prophane of whom he speaketh here hardened in his sinne and prophanenes and of which also he spake in the Preface at the beginning of his book That in him might be seen the truth of that which SalomoÌ„ saith The lippes of a foole devoure himself The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishnes and the latter end of his mouth is wicked madnes that thus also it might appeare how far he is froÌ„ being of the Israel of God that follow peace and holynes without which no man shall see the Lord. Heb. 12.14 TOwching his postscript about T. C. the man himself saith he is falsely traduced by him as he was likewise accused by some other here to Magistrates for the same thing who could not prove it against him when the matter came to be examined And see here still the bad dealing of this man who publisheth his name in this manner to the world onely vpon an hear-say not knowing whether the thing were true or false and then also when he heard withall that he had greatly bewayled his sinne and had not afterward given him any iust or needfull cause so to do For the casting of him out it was thought meet and good considering his former dealing the present case so to proceed yet not without differeÌ„ce of judgment in some of vs thereabout But he was shortly after received in againe being repentant for his sinne Now here let the Reader observe how this man which blameth others for not forgiving of penitent sinners hath not ceased throughout his book to publish and object the sinnes of such against the whole Church and the parties themselves besides the manifold falsehoods and blasphemies into which also he is â—un But his madnes is become manifest to men and his judgement sleepeth not with God who will remember and reward him according to his workes Nehem. 6.14 2 Tim. 4.14 A note of the particulars spoken of before pag. 62. wherein we differ from the Dutch and French Churches of this city wherabout we have had dealing with such of their Ministers as by the rest of their Eldership were deputed therevnto 1. THat the estate of the Dutch Church of Amst. is such as being one yet it meeteth in three severall places whereby it commeth to passe that the whole Church cannot come together in one the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctify the Lords day the presence of the members of the Church cannot certainly be knowen and finally no publick action whether excommunication or any other can rightly be performed Which is contrary to these Scriptures 1 Cor. 12.27 11.20 23. Math. 18 17. with 1 Cor. 5 4. Act. 6.2 5. Numb 8.9 Act. 20.28 2. They baptize the seed of them who are no members of any visible Church of whom moreover they haue not care as of meÌ„bers neyther admit their pareÌ„ts to the Lords Supper Gen. 17.7 9 10 11. 1 Cor. 7.14 Exod. 12.48 with 2 Chron. 30.6 c. Numb 9.13 Hos. 2.2.4 with Rev. 17.1 Ezech. 16.59 c. 3. In the publick worship of God they have devised vse an other forme of prayer besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed Mat. 6. reading out of a book certaine prayers invented and imposed by man Exod. 20.4.5 and 30.9 with Psal. 141.2 and Rev. 8.3 Lev. 10.1 Esa. 29.13 with Math. 15.9 Rom. 8.26 Eph. 4.8 1 Pet. 2.5 4. That rule and commaundement of Christ 18.15.16.17 they neither obserue nor suffer rightly to be observed among them 5. They worship God in the Idol-temples of Antichrist Exod. 20.4 with Deut. 12.2.3 2 18.11.12 c. 6 The Ministers have their set maintenance after an other maner then Christ hath ordeined 1 Cor. 9.14 And that also such as by which any Ministery at all whether popish or other whatsoever might be mainteyned 7. Their Elders chaunge yearely and do not continew in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the primitive Churches Rom. 12.4.5.6.7.8 1 Cor. 12.11.12 c. Act 20.17.28 1 5.1.2 3.4 See also Numb 8.24 c. 8. They celebrate Mariage in the Church as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall administration whereas it is in the nature of it meerly civill Ruth 4. chap. Heb. 13.4 1 Cor. 7.2 9. They vse a new censure of SuspensioÌ„ which Christ hath not appointed Math. 28.20 Gal. 3.15 2 Tim. 3.16.17 10. They observe dayes and tymes consecrating certyan dayes in the yeare to the Nativity Resurrection Ascension of Christ c. Exod. 20. Commaundement 2. 4. Rev. 1.10 1 Cor. 10.1 â— Act. 20.7 Col. 2.16.17 Esa 66.23 Gal. 4.10.11 11. They receive vnrepentant excommunicates to be members of their Church which by this meanes becommeth one body with such as be delivered vnto Sathan 1 Cor. 5.5 1 Tim. 1.20 About this matter we had dealing with them divers tymes heretofore And we desired that knowledg thereof might by themselves be giveÌ„ to the whole body of their Church or that they would take order that it might be done by vs. But they refused both Whereabout we had afterward some further dealing with them In which time divers messages and answers passed between vs. Which we had thought here to have inserted but now think good for the present to forbeare them Wishing rather that they might be buried amoÌ„g themselves by amendement hereafter then that we should be constreyned eyther by themselves or others as we are already too much provoked to publish them to the world for the further manifestation and clearing of our cause and maner of dealing with them The cautions spoken of before pag. 34. 68. concerning the question following Question Whether such as sometimes have fallen from the truth may afterward by the Church be taken into office Answer We take it not to be meet without these and the like cautious viz. FIrst that there be due consideration had both of the nature of the thing and of the quality of the persons and also of the estate of the Church For the nature of the thing 1. Whether it be from the trueth to the
Idolatry of the heathen or to some false Christian worship And here further whether to the Papists Anabaptists Lutherans or other Protestants professing reformation in sundry things those of great moment c. 2. Whether at the first appearing receiving of the truth or when the adversaries haue ben soundly throughly convinced 3. Whether in dispersion and absence from the Church or living and remayning with it 4. Whether drawen circumvented overcome by others as Aharon and some of the Galatians Exod. 32.1.23.35 Gal. 1.6 or drawing intising seducing of others as they of whom we read Ezech. 44.12 Deut. 13.5.6.12.13 Such as now also be they which publish writings against the trueth the Church c. 5. Whether they did voluntarily yeeld of themselves or fainted being broken with troubles and persecutions 6. Whether they joyned themselves as members or were present onely at their worship 7 Whether being ioyned as members they did partake onely or did administer also and execute their worship themselves 8. Whether slipping aside for a tyme through infirmity or falling away long resisting the meanes offred for their recovery or labouring what they could to chaunge or abolish the true religion worship of God 9. Lastly whether before or after the Church hath discussed and agreed what to do in this matter For the quality of the persons 1. Whether they were in office before or not 2. VVhether they be fit for office or not Els what blot should they beare in this behalf who for their sundry defects are altogether vnfit therefore never to be taken into office though they never had fallen from the trueth As they of Aharons seed who had a blemish in their body might never be Priests though they did neuer fall to Idolatry Lev. 21.17 c. For the estate of the Church 1. VVhether it were but newly and weakly entred into the faith and way of Christ or had ben long and well established therein 2. VVhether as yet it were vnsetled and tossed hither and thither to and fro or were setled and well together 3. Whether it haue great and present need of some to be taken into office 4. VVhether it have others in all respects as fit to be chosen As Paul when he refused Iohn Mark had Silas whome he chose to take with him Act. 15.25.26.27.32.38.40 Secondly that the Church do well know or trie such as have so fallē afore they do afterward entertayn them into office As Paul may be noted to haue done with Mark whom yet Barnabas did sooner receive as being his sisters sonne well knowen vnto him before Col. 4.10 2 Tim. 4.11 with Act. 15.38.39 Finally that none be contentious but that all of vs duly considering the former cautions and the like we take the fittest whom God in this estate of the Church doth offer endeavouring to keep the vnity of the spirit in the bond of peace that we may with love and comfort proceed in that wherevnto we are come to the prayse of God and to the further building vpholding of the whole Church of all the members thereof in the trueth of the Gospell of Iesus Christ. 1 Cor. 11.16 Ephe. 4.2.3 Phil. 3.15.16 Gal. 6.16 This for the present so to be mynded observed as if others shall at any tyme shew vs better from the word of God we be alway ready to receive it in the Lord. An Answer to the Reasons alledged to prove the vse of the Lords prayer as a Prayer Objection 1. AN expresse commaundement neither contrary to nature nor analogie of Faith and agreable also to the drift and tenour of the place ought litterally to be vnderstood and obeyed But this Math. 6.9 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. And Luk. 11.2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 say Our Father c. is such an expresse cōmaundement c. Ergo It is also so to be vnderstood and vsed Answer 1. This reason was alledged before Where see what is answered vnto it pag. 30. 2. The Assumption or second part of the reason is but barely affirmed not proved at all 3. How is it agreable to the nature of prayer and analogy of faith that one man or Church at any time should so pray as asking all things that ever any in the world haue needed or shall need vpon any occasion whatsoever Or that we now should offer such prayer and worship vnto God as we cannot have assurance by the Scriptures that ever the Apostles or other Christians approved of God did so vse at any time Or to keep alwayes a set forme of words for our prayer to God 4. How is it agreable to the drift and tenour of the place that Christ did so commaund it to be vsed as he pretendeth 1. For then it should be sinne to pray at any time and not to say it seing Christ hath thus given his commaundement concerning it Luk. 11.2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. When ye pray say Our father c. 2. And thus also we should be bound to say it twise over together at everie time we vse it because Mathew and Luke in some words and clauses recorded it diversly And who can say we ought to vse the words of the one more then of the other 3. But both the cōmaundement it self and the circumstances about it noted in the Evangelists shew it to be given for a rule of prayer and therefore so to vse it is that which is agreable to the tenour and drift of the place As we haue heretofore shewed in divers Treatises yet vnanswered 5. By literall vnderstanding of Christs words in the same sermon do the Anabaptists gather that it is vnlawfull for Christiās to take an oth to go to warre to beare Magistracy c. pleading the expresse words and commaundement of Christ. Math. 5.34.39 c. with many other pretences which they have thereabout Shall we therefore admit of their errors or vnderstand those Scriptures as they would have vs Not to speak of other as expresse speaches or any collections thereabout As Mat. 6.17 Ioh. 13.5.12.14.15 Objection 2. 2. If Christ had taught onely to pray to this effect then had he taught nothing but that which Iohns Disciples all the faithfull practised before for the Prayers of the Saints as of Salomon Nehemiah Daniel were to that effect before Answer 1. What if all this be graunted What would follow therevpon Doth not christ in the same sermō of his teach the very same things that Moses in effect had taught before But now by reason of the false gloses of the Pharisees he explaned them according to their true meaning Math. 5.17 c. 2. In like maner there being great abuse about prayer as is particularlie noted by Mathew Christ sheweth them how to vse it aright Math. 6.5.6.7 c. 3. If he meane that the prayers of the holy men in former tymes were of such things as here be cōprised it is true that they thē prayed to this
out of his place and to take his kingdome froÌ„ amoÌ„g the requiring also of such as are willing to obey the truth voice of Christ now to save themselves from such a froward generation to walk in obedience of his faith commaundements Rev. 2.5 Mat. 21.42.43 Esa. 8.12 16. Act. 2.40.41.42 13.46.51 18.5.6 19.8.9 And according to this would I be vnderstood wheresoever I speak concerning this argument For the Iewes in Egypt rebelling after admonition besides the difference to be put between obstinacy persisted in and that which is repented of which is thought to haue bene their estate I have here before shewed how we are to discerne between their estate in respect of their owne desert and the Lords mercy vnto them for his Nameâ— sake notwithstanding Which diversity of respect being now revealed vnto vs in the word of God concerning them we are therin to rest and so to speak and esteem of their estate as the Scriptures teach vs. Ezech. 20.7.8.9 with Exod. 4.22 and 3.10.18 8 22. and 12. chap and 15.16 Hos. 11.1 For the Iewes in Christs time and after his death what I think and my reasons thereof the Reader may find also in the Treatise aforesaid both in the Preface sect 4. 5. and in the book it self pag. 161.195 For that he objecteth here about their estate after admonition two things are to be obserued the one concerning that people the other concerning their admonition For the first touching the people God had chosen that nation out of all the nations of the earth to be his he had done great wonderous things for them he had given them his word and statutes he had promised that of them and to them he would send the Messiah him they expected for refusall of him they were to be cut of and the Gentiles to be graffed in many were the cities and Synagogues of them to to Ierusalem the males came but thrice a yeare c. And for the second towching admonition God would haue them fully taught admonished and convinced that the Messiah was now come that Iesus was he therefore was Iohn Baptist appointed to shew him vnto them and to baptise in his name therefore did Christ send his disciples into their cities to preach testifie it vnto them therfore also did Christ himself every where among them teach confirme it by his doctrine and miracles and being the true Passeover shadowed out by all their types was put to death at their feast of Passeover rose againe the third day accoâ—â—ing â—o the scâ—iptuâ—es to accomplish the promises made vnto the Fathers and to leave â—he Iewes without all colour o◠〈…〉 â—â—lief and obstinacy they should be cut off These things and the like noted of them in the Scripture are to be observed of vs that we may aright esteem of their estate and of the Lords account of them and dealing with them Yea the Scriptures here cited by himself shew this very thing how the Lord did not at first cut of that people but after he had vsed sundry meanes vnto them and that also many tymes Luk. 7.30.31 c. Mat. 23.37.38 And the same is playnely declared Mar. 21.33 43. and throughout the history of the Evangelists and Actes of the Apostles Besides for admonition also obserue how God requireth that a particular man for a private â—â—nne be admonished in the 〈◊〉 secoÌ„d and third place before he be cast out Mat. 18.15.16.17 And in rejecting an heretick that it be done after the first and second admonition Tit. 3.10 Also in the Lord his owne dealing with the particular Churches of the Gentiles that he gave them space to repeÌ„t after the admonitions given vnto them before he would remoue the candlestick out of his place Rev. 2.4.5.16.21 3.3.16.18.20.22 And what then should let that we should not likewise obeserve Gods dealing with the Iewes at that tyme and accordingly esteem of their estate Concerning whom note also when now they had despised all the former meanes and crucified Iesus then the Apostles testifying vnto them that he was the Christ did first at Ierusalem after wheresoever they came and found the disobedient teach all to separate and save themselves from such a froward generation Act. 2.14 40. 13.14 51. 18.5.6 19.8.9 28.25.26.27 Thus haue I touching this point shewed my mynd wherein if I erre let it be shewed by the word of God And though in some things I differ in judgment from Mr H Barrow that faithfull Martyr of Christ yet doth it not prejudice the truth testified by both of vs against the Antichristian estate of the Church of England This themselues may obâ—erue in theiâ— owne writers against the Papists in whom it were endles to recount the differences found amoÌ„g theÌ„ frivolous to pretend thereby approbatioÌ„ of the Romish Church in their estate We all here know but in part and who is he that erreth in nothing If then in this I were mistaken haue I therfore betrayed our cause or overthrowen the mayne drift of my writings Nay if this be all the errour in my writings that with all his searching he caÌ„ fynd I shall rather think our cause to be so approved and my drift atteyned therein for the truth of Christ against the present estate of their Church as they are not able eyther to defend themselues or convince vs by the word of God and therefore now set themselues to search snatch and cavill at something for objection against vs. Which also if they fynd and it be graunteâ— them albeit our defence therein were the weaker yet were theyr cause therefore never a whit the better To conclude this poynt besides personall abuse of divers of which 〈…〉 where he hath it agayne he objecteth against me that I condemne the Dutch and French Churches for despising our admonition c. But in what writing of â—â—nne hath he found this or in what words haue I spoken it to any or in what dealing towards them haue I shewed it Where is the due proof of his charges which ere while he told vs of How reverendly we think of these Churches we haue often shewed and published heretofore which I need not here repeat And what dealing hath passed between vs and the Elders of the Dutch and French Churches of this City I shall haue occasion hereafter to shew more particularly To which place I 〈◊〉 it Now onely let the Reader here consider how truely and fitly his shutting vp of this point may be applyed to himself who heretofore hath held and witnessed the same testimony with vs against the Church of England and corruptions of these Churches here but now wavereth or rather in deed is revolted in both as the world seeth and his walking sheweth He that wavereth in his owne testimony â—ow shall his witnes â—e received But thus is that verifyed in him which the wise man speaketh The â—vill man is snared by the wickednes