sée it the Sepulchâ—e opened for his sake and the body assumpteâ— into heauen he saith not one word of these conceits Nay he rather saith against them for he noteth namely That Iames was also present the brother of the Lord and Peter the chiefest and ancientest top of the Apostles And it is not likely he would haue noted two if they had beene all present here is no lesse than seuen lies in lesse than sixe liues Now let vs sée how Damascen your Portesse agréeth For DamasceÌ„ saith The Angels sung almost thrée dayes The Portesse thrée whole dayes Damascen saith The rest of the Apostles would shew to one of them who was absent the bodie The Portesse saith Thomas who was absent would worship the bodie Now what thée Damascen was let your owne doctors tell you who except against him for his tale of Gregory the Pope â—anus locoâ—m Theol 〈◊〉 11. â— Hessels â—nsure de â—stor sanct â— 3. â—erm de funct in 〈◊〉 and Traiane the Emperour Thus Damascen reporteth That Gregorie while he went ouer the market place of Traian did pray for Traians soule to God and behold a voice from heauen I haue heard thy prayer and I pardon Traian but see thou pray no more to me for the wicked These be good places to prooue prayer for the dead and yet it is against popish doctrine that prayer can deliuer any out of hell And if he had béen in Purgatory the Pope could haue dispatched that of himselfe without praying The next is Athan in Euang. de deipara who speaks not one word of your miraculous fault And yet is the same Athanasius reiected for a bastard in your owne edition In edit Petr. Nannij Louan praefat ad episcop Atiebat The last is fiue sermons of S. Barnards in all which likewise there is not one worde of that miracle So that vnlesse they were disposed to lie for the whetstone it is to be wondred how they dare thus abuse their Readers both with the names of counterfeit Fathers and false forgeries If I should collect all such like stuffe it would growe greater than this smal Tract But let the Christian Reader iudge of the rest as hee prooues these to be truly brought against them And if any desire further proofe of the Rhemists sincerity in alleaging Fathers let him obserue these places viz. The constitutions of Clement Luk. 4. Sect. 1. Ignatius Matt. 4. Sect. 2. 1. Peter 2. Sect. 6 Dionysius Areopag Act. 8. Sect. 6. Hypolitus Mat. 24. Sect. 5. Policarpus Act. 6. Sect. 1. Miltiadi Fabian Act. 8. Sect. 6. S. Andrew S. Martiall Hebr. 10. Sect. 11. The Masses of S. Iames Basil and Chrysostome 1. Cor. 11. Sect. 10. Clicton for Ciuil Ioh. 11. Sect. 1. and Paulinus Ioh. 9. Sect. 2. All these are counterfeit Fathers and vrged by the Papists vnder the names of true Fathers to countenance their corrupt doctrine And therefore no maruell if popish leaders instruct their followers to get vs into the plaine field of their Motiues out of our weake and false castell of onely Scripture as Bristowe the Licentiate tearmeth it Brist Motiu 48. And it is no maruell that they haue such store of the Fathers and that our new masters as they tearme vs cannot compare with these Fathers in the doctrines they deliuer when they bring vs onely the names of fathers I could giue instance likewise how the Fathers are often contrary one to another yea contrary to themselues Thus I hope it is plainly prooued by these foure iust exceptions that the Fathers iudgements are no infallible rule for a man to build his faith on though it be imbellisht with the churches exposition And yet wee reuerence and honor them as men that haue brought great light to the vnderstanding of the Scriptures But what doâ— you vnderstand by intituling the ancient Fathers with the name of the church Papist I meane Harâ—â—g Rai that the ioint consent of the Fathers in all doctrines deliuered by them is the doctrine of the Church Protestant 15 What doe you meane by the ioint consent of the Fathers Papist I mean by the ioint consent of the Fathers that which all or the most part of them doe deliuer for trueth wherin if there be any difference the greater number is to be followed for a fewe may bee deceiued more easily than many Protestant 16 This rule séemes to be very vncertaine for you knowe that king Ahab was deceiued by the consent of false prophets 2. Chron. 1â— 5 11. euen 400. against Micaiah yea when the Fathers in the great Councel of Nice were about to decrée that Bishops Priests DeacoÌ„s should not vse their wiues Paphnutius alone Sozom. li. 1. cap. 2â— rose vp in the midst of their Councell and fréely contradicted it and preuailed Besides in the third Exception before it is plainely shewed that the greater number of Fathers are by your selues reiected in the diuision of the coÌ„mandements and in the controuersie betwéene S. Austine and Hierom touching Peters reproofe par 1. wherein your selues grant Torrensis confes Aug. lib. 2. cap. 1. tim â— that Austin iudged more soundly What is therefore then to be done that a certaine and sure ground may bee found out Papist Then a better and more sure way is that which by the faithfull Pastors of the Church is decreed in a generall Councell which cannot erre Protestant 17 Indéed I must confesse it is a sure way to build our faith vpon those Councels which cannot erre But how shal we be assured that they cannot erre Papist We are assured by the Scriptures That the Church cannot erre as is euident by these places following Mat. 18.20 Our Sauiour Christ saith That when two or three are gathered together in his name that he will be in the midst And Ioh. 16 13. he promiseth to send vnto his Church the holy Ghost which shall leade them into all trueth 1. Tim. 3. And S. Paul calles it the Pillar and ground of trueth Vpon which places and many other which for breuity I omit wee conclude that the Church cannot erre which to speake as the Schoolemen doe we call the Church representatiue because the whole Church is there represented in a gerall Councell Protestant 18 Take héede what you doe Will you bring the Church contrary to the iudgement of many learned Papists mentioned in the preface of this booke to take her authority from the Scriptures and to be tried by them whether it may erre If you doe it will be the vtter ruine and destruction of your Religion for the Scriptures will conuince the Councel of Constance of error in taking away the cup from the Laitie contrary to S. Pauls expresse commandement saying 1. Cor. 11. Let a man examine himselfe and so let him eate of this bread and drinke of this cup. And contrary to the Institution and commaundement of Christ himselfe saying Drinke you all of this Mat. 26.27
And Saint Iohn witnesseth that our Sauiour Christ saith Iohn 6.53 Except yee eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his blood you haue no life in you and many other testimonies which I omit It wil conuince the Councell of Nice of error in decréeing for the worship of Images contrary to the second commandement But what shall I néede to descend to particularities it will conuince your late Councell of Trent and all other Councels in all those points of doctrine wherein you varie from vs if any Papist dare vndertake to bring the controuersies betwéene vs to that triall And surely since they will seeme to bring Scriptures to prooue the authoritie of the church and that the church cannot erre I sée no reason why they should refuse to make them iudge of all differences betwéene vs. But I maruell they vrge these places of Scripture to prooue that the church representatiue cannot erre séeing they are not able to shew that any one ancient Father hath so vnderstood them or that the whole church is represented in a generall Councell Name one Father that is ancient and not counterfeit for your credit sake that hath interpreted these places of Scripture or any other in that case as you doe If you cannot the world may iustly holde you for wranglers and abusers both of Scriptures and Fathers But let vs a little examine the force of those Scriptures which if they were all granted make nothing against vs if they bee rightly vnderstood The first is When two or thrée are gathered together c. This place is as pregnant for two or thrée faithfull men assembled in Christs name as to a Nationall or a Prouinciall Councell Neither doeth it giue any greater priuiledge to a Generall Councell than it doeth vnto them Bellar. li. 1. de Conc. ca. 12. though it bee alleaged by Bellarmine as the ground for the authorising of Councels All which promise notwithstanding your selues grant That both Nationall and Prouinciall Councels may erre The next place is the sixtéenth of Iohn where the holy Ghost is promised to the Apostles to leade them into all trueth which spirit of trueth is promised to the church and to euery particular member thereof for whome our Sauiour Christ prayeth saying Sanctifie them in thy trueth thy worde is trueth Ioh. 17.17.19 20. And againe I pray not for these alone but for them also that shall beleeue in mee through their worde But what maketh this for generall Councels more then the whole church or euery faithfull member thereof For although this prooueth that the holy Ghost shall euer remayne with the church and with euery true member of the same yet must wee not hereof conclude though it bee as pregnant for euery faithfull particular man as for the whole That either euery member of Christ or euerie Pastor that is the Apostles successour cannot erre Neither is this to be restrained to generall Councels or to the Pope neither must wee thinke that any visible Church may challenge all priuiledges that the Apostles had as necessary to the conuersion of the world Rhem. Test Iohn 16. But your Rhemists will tell you that to teach all trueth and to preserue in trueth and from error the holy Ghost is promised and performed onely to the Church and the choice gouernour and generall Councels Vpon which the Papists conclude that if the Church cannot erre the gouernours of the church cannot erre Is not this substantiall reasoning The whole church cannot erre Ergo the Pastors and preachers cannot erre Deale plainely and directly Do you hereby conclude that all Pastors cannot erre or that no Pastor can erre For to say that no Pastor can erre were apparant madnesse and to say that all Pastors cannot erre stands you in no stead neither is this a good argument The whole Church cannot erre that is all and euery faithfull cannot erre Ergo all Pastors cannot erre This is no kind of consequent for some of the faithfull may be directed to the trueth and they no Pastors nor preachers and many preachers may be preserued from error and they no Bishops and many Bishops may kept in the faith and they not assembled And a great number of those that be assembled may be righty affected and yet not the most part of them And the greater side may be well disposed and yet not the Bishop of Rome without whose confirmation you hold no Councell lawfull And therefore this argument is very childish The whole Church cannot erre Ergo Generall Councels cannot erre and specially the Pope of whom wee shall speake more particularly hereafter neither hath the holy Ghost filled with the vnmeasurable abundance of grace any but Christ Iohn 3.34 Iohn 1.16 for God giueth not the spirit by measure to him of whose fulnesse wee all receiue And it may well bee gathered from the Scriptures 2. Cor. 10.13 Eph. 4.7 that though the holy Ghost be giuen to the Elect yet hee hath giuen it by measure as I may say with Saint Paul not to this end that they may not erre but that they may not erre to death For what thing soeuer is receiued of another it is receiued according to the capacitie of that which receiueth it The last is the 1. Tim. 3.15 The Church is the pillar and ground of trueth therefore it cannot erre If this argument were granted would it follow hereupon that general Councels could not erre but this is sufficiently refuted before And you knowe that Peter was a pillar of trueth and yet hee erred and was reprooued by Saint Paul Gal. 2. yea your Diuines of Paris Articuli Parisienses but lately resolued that Peter erred in faith when Paul reprooued him And the very drift and scope of the place sheweth That Timothie is not sent by Saint Paul to the church to learne his duety but to the Scripture These things write I vnto thée sayth hee hoping to come shortly but if I tarie long that thou mayest knowe how thou oughtest to behaue thy selfe in the house of God which is the church of the liuing GOD the pillar and ground of trueth This church then which Timothie was conuersant in is the church of Ephesus called by S Paul The pillar and ground of trueth But this church of Ephesus hath condemned the doctrine of the Popes supremacie Conc. Flor. Sess vlt. Chalcocondylas de Reb. Turc lib. 6. to which other churches of the East haue likewise condescended Therefore if that be true still which the Church teacheth because S. Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of trueth then the doctrine of the Popes supremacie is wicked and Papistrie is heresie yea euen this church notwithstanding it was called the pillar and ground of trueth is now left desolate to Mahomets wicked impietie But let vs sée by some few testimonies of the Fathers how they haue expounded this place and whether they haue applied it to generall Councels as the Papists do and not
euen by the learned Papists themselues and their Vniuersities yet doe they alleage them against vs in many of their bookes especially in the Rhemes Testament to giue countenance to Popish errors See pag. 23. 24. 25. 26. 27. 28. 29. 30. 31. 32. 33. 10 That the consent of the Fathers cannot be shewed nay scarce any ancient Father that all controuersies are to bee determined by the Pope or that hee cannot erre or that hee must summon Councels or that they are of no authoritie vnlesse they bee confirmed by the Pope And yet are these doctrines held Catholike by the Papists and reputed the chiefe pillars of Popery See pag. 75. 11 That al those places of Scripture which are brought by the Papists either to prooue the Popes prerogatiue or the authority of the Church or that the Church cannot erre are by the Fathers writing purposely vpon the same places expounded according to the Protestants sense giuen and contrary to the sense which the Papists giue So farre are the Papists from proouing the generall consent of the Fathers in expounding these Scriptures which they commonly obiect against vs as Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Or the promises of the holy Ghost to be sent to the Church to leade it into all trueth Or To thee will I giue the keyes of the kingdom of Heauen Or The Church is the pillar and ground of Trueth Or Tell the Church Or if hee heare not the Church let him be to thee as an heathen or as a Publicane Or whatsoeuer thou bindest in earth shall be bound in heauen Or any other place of Scripture to the sayd purposes to bee on their side as namely that those Texts should be meant of the Pope Generall Councell or the Church of Rome See pag. 66. 67. 68. 69. 70. 12 That Generall Councels haue erred haue beene contrary one to another haue been reiected by the Papists themselues and so are no sure Rule to build our faith on See pag. 48. 49. 50. 51. 52. 53. 54. 55. 13 That the Popes whom they would haue to be supreame Iudges in al Controuersies haue erred iudicially haue been heretikes as maintaining the heresie of the Monothelites subscribing to the Arrian heresie to the Nestorian heresie haue offered sacrifice to idoles haue been Necromancers and Coniurers See pag. 58. 59. 60. 61. 62. 14 That the Pope can be no competent Iudge and whereunto the Fathers referre vs. See pag. 93 c. LEt me request thee Courteous reader to take noâ—ice that the Texts of Scripture and testimonies of the Fathers cited by me in this Treatise should all haue been set downe in a different letter from the rest of the matter wherewith they are ranked accordingly as you see performed in the Preface and in the later halfe of the booke Now by meanes of my absence and want of direction giuen in this point it could not be discerned by the Printer howe farre the wordes of the Text and Testimonies so to bee distinguished might reach And therefore I cannot but free him from that blame as likewise 2. or 3. literal escapes only excepted from imputation of any the faults hereunder specified some of them being committed in my Copie and the rest through difficulty and darknes of the hand might easily be mistaken In the Text. Page 5. line 7. for allured reade allowed pag. 8. l. 17. Trations Traditions p. 11 l. 19. Priests proofe p. 29. l. â—6 addeth alleageth p. 29. l. 17. tehimony testimony p. 31. l. 2. for 25 15. p. 33. l. 7. fault fable p. 40. l. 9. châ—ice chiefe p. 72. l. 8. cannot which cannot p. 89. l. 1. sense the sense In the Margent Pag. 7. for De Bapt. c. 6. li. 1. reade De Bapt. cont Don. li. 3. pag. 7. prat reade pont pag. 8. 1. Thes 2. Thes pag. 12. 1. Pet. 2.18 1. Pet. 1.18 pag. 20. Aug. in Frut Aug. in Enar. pag. 14. de fulta de falsa pag. 35. li. 1. cap. 22. li 1. cap 23. pag. 36. Tim. Tit. pag. 52. Epist 16 7. Epist 167. pag. 59. against Pope Coelestine C. laudab de conuers Infidel is omitted
the saluation of the faithfull And in his second booke against Cresconius the Grāmarian he saith That there is an Ecclesiasticall Canon ordained whereunto belong the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles By which bookes we iudge all other writings both of the faithful of the Infidels Hier. sup Agge cap. 1. Hierom sayth Those things which of their owne heads they deuise as though they came by Apostolike Tradition without the authority and testimony of the holy Scriptures the sword of Gods word striketh Infinite be the Authorities of the Fathers which might be brought to this purpose but I will conclude the point with Vincentius Lirinensis whome D.B.P. in his booke against M. Perkins Vincent aduer Haeres beleeueth not to haue any such wordes who saith The Canon of the Scripture is perfect and sufficient and more then sufficient to al things And again Not that saith he the Canon alone is not sufficient for all things These Fathers I hope knew the Scriptures aswell as D.B.P. or any other Papist and yet notwithstanding al his their obiections the Protestāts Achilles as he tearmeth it stands vnimpeacht by any thing that this or any other cauiller hath said And yet notwithstanding these euident places brought by the general consent of all the Fathers against the fundamētal Ground of Popery Your Rhemists wil tel you Rhem. Test 2. Thes 2. sect 18.19 if you wil beleeue them that they haue to the contrary plaine Scriptures all the fathers most euident reasons that wee must either beleeue Traditions or nothing at all And that S. Augustine often writeth That many of the articles of our Religion and points of highest importance are not so much to be prooued by Scriptures as by Tradition But if we aske them where S. Austine wrote this often and that of many articles of Religion and poynts of highest importance it must be returned with Non est inuentus Not to be found in S. Austin But they perceiuing the whole waight of their cause to lie in this Rhem. Test fol. 559. haue marshalled nine Fathers in a ranke to proue that we must either beleeue Traditions or nothing And yet the very same Fathers haue shewed That no matter of faith or of any moment to saluation must bee receiued or beleeued without the Scriptures Cypr. ad Pomp. cont epist Stepha Basil contr Eunomium lib. 3. and the Fathers often times by Traditions vnderstand matters contained proued out of the scriptures that in regard the same was deliuered also by word And many times by Traditiōs they vnderstād ceremonies and customs Now chuse whether you will grant a flat contradiction in the Fathers or reconcile them thus and conclude with vs Ergo the Traditions they meane be no parts or points of the Christian faith For we haue their plain confession That all things necessary to saluation are comprised in the scriptures you produce them to witnes That your Traditions be not comprised in the scriptures Ergo by your owne deponents wee conclude That your Traditions be neither necessary to saluation nor points of the Catholike faith Looke wel to this Issue They must either dissent frō you or from themselues Now if you will compare the late doctrine of the Romish Church with these Fathers it shal be euident That they haue not only dissented frō them but also vttered open blasphemy against the sacred Scriptures First Cardinal Cusanus intituleth his booke De authoritate ecclesiae Cōcilij supra contra scripturam Of the the authority of the Church Coūcel aboue against the scriptures Syluester Prierias master of the Popes palace Contr. Luther cōclusi de pot Papae saith That indulgences are warranted vnto vs not by the authority of the scripture but by the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome which is greater Boniface the Archbishop of Mentz saith That all men so reuerence the Apostolike See of Rome that they rather desire the ancient institution of Christian Religiō from the Pope than from the holy scripture This saying the Pope hath so approued that he hath caused it to be inserted into the Cannon lawe Dist 40. c. Si Papa Another saith whosoeuer resteth not on the doctrine of the Roman Church and B. of Rome Syluest Prier contr Luther as the infallible rule of God à qua sacra scriptura roburtrahit auctoritatem from which the sacred scripture draweth strength and authority he is an heretike Eckius saith De Ecclesia Scriptura nisi ecclesiae auctoritate non est authētica The scripture is not authētical but by the authority of the church Cardinal Hosius saith De expresso verbo Dei If any man haue the interpretation of the Church of Rome concerning any place of scripture although he neither knowe nor vnderstand whether and how it agreeth with the words of the scripture notwithstanding he hath ipsissimū verbū Dei the very word of God Cardinal Cusanus saith Nicol. Cusan ad Bohem epi. 7. It is no maruel though the practise of the Church expound the scriptures at one time one way and at an other time another way for the vnderstanding or sense of the scripture runneth with the practise And that sense agreeing with the practise is the quickening spirit Henric. doctor Magister sacripalatij Romae ad Legatos Bohemicos sub Felice Papa 1447. Ad Bohem. ep 2. and therefore the scriptures follow the Church but contrariwise the Church followeth not the scriptures Another saith The Pope may change the holy Gospel and may giue to the Gospel according to place and time another sense To conclude therfore with Cardinal Cusanus This is the iudgement saith he of all them that thinke rightly that foūd the authority vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not contrariwise lay the foundation of the Church in the authority of the scriptures I will not mention others that haue blasphemously said Vid. Chemnit exa par 1. pag. 47. That the scriptures without the authority of the Church are no better than Aesops Fables Thus you see how the Grounds of our Religiō are iustified by the Fathers against these blasphemies of the Romish Church And for that I knowe it commonly obiected that we refuse in disputation conference to handle the groūds of Religion I haue thought good in this smal Tract to examin though briefly the Grounds of your Romish Religion dialogue-wise to the end the truth may be the more liuely discerned by the obiections and answers Wherein if I haue not truely laid downe the Groūds of your Religion for the substance therof Or that they haue either bin mistaken by me or that vsing that breuity I haue done they might be more strongly or effectually vrged on your side or that the reasons vrged on our behalfe be either falsly alleaged or not truly handled I shall take it as a speciall grace done vnto me an argumēt of
doctrine of your Church else I knowe they will all disclaime from it hauing seen the errors and weaknesse thereof I will take vpon me to shew that in so short and friuolous a discourse you could hardly compile more absurdities than there are couched I wil proue for example that you mistake and vnderstand not the questions your selfe would seeme to handle that you most shamefully belie our Catholike writers guilefully alleage both Fathers and Scriptures heap testimonies of ancient writers without end or purpose make obiections to your selfe and answere thē not at all I will proue that you alleage false Councels amongst the nūber of true without any difference or distinctiō that you reproue Fathers writings as counterfeit which are most approued count bookes of Scriptures Apocrypha which are Canonicall I will prooue in these few lines you write contrary to your selfe contrary to your owne writers I will prooue that the booke is fraught with most palpable lies errors corruptions falsifications if you wil but procure as I sayd before that it may be countenanced by publike authority with the subscriptiōs of 2. or 3. the most deepest schollers of your Sect. In the meane time I let it passe with this bare censure and intreate you but to reade Bellarmine de Pont. de Concil where you shall find most of your obiections of the errors of Popes and Councels already refuted The true Copie of my Letter in answere hereof TO accuse without proofe to say and shewe no reason of all which you in your Letter may iustly be taxed might truely argue mee to want both substance order learning and trueth according to your owne phrase And to free your selfe from the same imputation haue you yeelded any other reason against my booke which you intitie a vaine bundle of words than a boasting bundle of vaine brags Turpe est doctori c. But you would seem to giue a reason why your bare censure as you rightly haue censured your selfe should be a sufficient answere to my booke vnlesse I can procure two or three of the best learned of our side to auow it vnder their hands to be the doctrine of our Church Else you knowe or else you are a false prophet they will all disclaime from it hauing seen the errors and weakenesse thereof But lest I seeme to taxe you with want of learning and truth with bare words onely without proofe as you in the height and eminency of your iudgement haue censured me Can there be greater shew of ignorance thā to require that to be auowed to be the doctrine of our Church which hath beene already by the learned of our side published to the whole world in many of their seueral books daily extāt to be seen And that I cōmit not your fault To speake without proofe do you but instance any one point of doctrine in all my booke and if I doe not shew where the same is iustified by the learned of our side I will willingly acknowledge that error wherewith I haue here charged your selfe And to make it yet more euident if I should require you to confirme the doctrine you should deliuer by two or three of your best Diuines when the same had been published already by Bellarmine Gregorius Valencia your Rhemists and others could any thing conuince me of grosser ignorance It seemes notwithstanding your vaine brag That that you would prooue 15. particularities wherewith you haue charged me and my booke that you are but meanely read in controuersies otherwise you could not be ignorant that there is no doctrine in my booke that is not auowed published either by Iewel against Harding or the B. of Winchester that now is or by D. Rainolds D. Whittaker D. Fulke D. Sparke with many others And albeit I could not haue cōfirmed thus much by these cleere testimonies yet if you had Christianly and charitably weighed with what mind my request was made in my Preface to my Kinsmen wherin I had intreated in these very words That if I had not truely layd downe the Grounds of your Religion for the substance or if they had been mistaken by mee or vsing that breuity I had done they might more strongly haue been vrged or if the reasons I had vrged had been falsly alleaged or not truely handled c. That I would haue taken it as a speciall grace done vnto me c. to haue had the faults thereof manifested shewed that I might haue been drawen to haue been of the same profession with them c. you would neuer haue insisted vpon such a subscription of the deepest schollers of our Sect thereby to haue cauilled and shifted off the answere of my booke how vnlearned soeuer it had been either for the methode or matter But you imagined your wordes were so powerfull that it was sufficient for your followers that you had onely giuen your censure without shewing any further reason Besides my request being so charitable reasonable it seemes you haue small care of winning of soules otherwise I perswade my selfe if you had been assured of your owne sufficiencie to haue answered the booke you would neuer haue insisted vpon so friuolous a request Nor haue preferred the vaine-glory of hauing a learned aduersary before the hope you might not without good probabilitie haue conceiued in reducing many by my conuersion or rather indeede peruersion to haue been of your profession I professe for my part I cannot see any other ground of your Letter directed to me than to inlarge your own ostentation and glory to your followers For to vndertake that you would prooue this and this and not to haue returned the booke whereunto you required the subscription what can be inferred thereof but that you would winne time to delay and shift off the answere But if you will proceede according to my request in the Preface of my booke proue as much as by your Letter you haue presumed without seeking some new shift to delay the time further I will engage my selfe that the same shall bee replied to by one euery way equall to your selfe in all knowledge and literature who notwithstanding the aduantage you promise to your selfe of the absurdities committed by me shall defend the cause I manage and subscribe the same defence with his owne hand Otherwise you shall gaine thus much by your trauell that I wil willingly submit my selfe to be a member of your Church If you refuse these reasonable conditions I must vse your owne olde phrase and tell you that I must needs thinke your cause so weake that it cannot bee maintained I omit to charge you with inciuility in giuing me the Lie For that I cannot but pitie your ignorance that cannot as it seemes though all were false I had sayd speaking by relation distinguish betweene a lie and vntrueth And whereas you referre me in the conclusion of your Letter to Bellarmin de Pont. de Concilijs where you say I shall find most of my
which be Canonicall and which be Apocrypha Protestant 8 How do you know which is the Church And by what meanes may it be knowen that the Church hath authoritie to determine which be Scriptures and which of them be Canonicall and which be Apocrypha Papist There be many notes and markes reckoned vp by the learned of our side by which the Church may be knowen But we insist chiefly vpon these Antiquitie Vnitie Vniuersality Succession and the power of Miracles And for the authority of the Church it is prooued by the Scriptures Protestant 9 This answere is common to all Heretikes for they alleage somtimes the a Author ope Imper. in Mat. Ho. 48. Church sometime b Iren. adu Haere lib. 3. cap. 2. Traditions sometime c Aug. coÌ„tr Maxim Ariâ— episc li. 1. Councels sometime d De Bapt. c. 6. li. 3. Fathers sometime e In Ioh. ca 2. tract 13 Miracles sometime f De vnit eccle c. 16. Visions sometime g Epist 65. ad gener Succession of Bishops yea h Act. 19.27 Demetrius pretended Vniuersalitie And the i Act. 17 18 19. Philosophers Epicures and Stoickes Antiquity And k Vinc. Lir. ca. 6 ca. 4. Vincentius Lirinensis disproueth Vniuersalitie by the example of the Arrians and Antiquity by the example of the Donatists And for their l In Chron. Suput Rom. prat Sigon de Regn. Ital li. â— Vnitie let that appeare in the seuerall oppositions of their Popes one condemning the decrées of another and decréeing one contrary to another And therefore this is no sufficieÌ„t reason for a man to ground his faith and Religion if we beléeue the m StapletoÌ„ Fortresse Hart. ag Ra. pag. 118. Papists in the like cause for it is a common obiection by them that because Heretikes alleage the Scripture therefore they are no suffieient rule Moreouer this answere passeth the limits of the proposition for it presupposeth the authoritie of the Church to be prooued by the Scriptures and the Scriptures to be prooued by the authority of the Church which is Ignotum per ignotius Idem per idem A proofe of a thing vnknowen by a thing lesse knowen and so no proofe at all Therefore to procéede to the next part of the diuision what doe you vnderstand by Traditions Papist I vnderstand Apostilicall doctrine commonly called vnwritten verities and as D.B. P. in his booke against M. Perkins diuides them Some are Diuine some Apostolicall and some Ecclesiasticall all which according to the Councel of Trent are to be receiued with equall reuerence Conc. Trid. Sess 4. and religious affection as we do the Scriptures Protestant 10 How doe you proue Traditions or vnwritten verities to bee Apostolicall doctrine and that they be Diuine Apostolicall and Ecclesiasticall and that they are to bee receiued with equall reuerence and religious affection as we doe the Scriptures Papist 2. Thess 2 15. I proue it by the Scriptures interpreted by the Church Saint Paul saith Hold the Trations which yee haue learned whether it bee by word Conc. Trid. â—ess 4. or by Epistle which by the Churches exposition proueth vnwritten verities to be receiued with equall authoritie to the Scriptures and to explane the same D.B.P. aforesayd affirmeth that Diuine Traditions come from our Sauiour Christ Apostolicall Traditions from the Apostles And the Decrees of the Church hee tearmeth Ecclesiasticall Traditions which are likewise of equall authoritie with the Scriptures Protestant 11 This is a common fault with you to vse this point of Sophistrie called by the Logicians Petitio principij for you wil stil take it for graunted that you are the Church though you neuer prooue it And this is a necessary consequence That if the trueth be doubted of the church must néedes bee much more doubted of because the Church is the number of men professing the trueth And how can the professors of the trueth be seuered from others so long as the trueth by which they should bee knowen is in question Therefore the supposing your selues to be the church when your faith Religion should be tried is fond vain But if S. Paul in that place by Deliuered Tradition meane nothing but the doctrine deliuered to them by word of mouth yet comprised in Scripture too then must you graunt that you are deceiued to thinke that vnwritten Traditions are approued by S. Pauls Traditions Now what the things were which S. Paul deliuered by word to the Thessalonians is shewed in the 17 of the Acts saying Now as they passed thorow Amphipolis and Apolonia they came to Thessalonica where was a Synagogue of the Iewes and Paul as his maner was entred in vnto them and thrée Sabbath dayes hee discoursed vnto them out of the Scriptures opening and alleaging That Christ must haue suffered and risen againe c. In which wordes it is opened both what Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians by word and from whence From whence Out of the Scriptures What That it behooued Christ to suffer and rise againe Besides Saint Paul witnesseth both to small and great that hee said no other thing than that which the Prophets and Moyses did say should come Act. 26 22 The Traditions therefore that Paul doth exhort the Thessalonians to hold is the Tradition of the Gospel as Saint Ambrose writing vpon the same place calleth it very well which the reason also doth prooue that Saint Ambrose noteth that Paul doth there gather saying God hath raised you to saluation by our Gospel therefore stand ye fast and holde the Traditions which ye haue learned whether it be by word or by Epistle Now I hope there is none so impudent to denie that the Gospel is written But here another difficultie incounters vs If it were granted by the Churches interpretation that there were doctrines or Traditions Diuine Apostolicall or Ecclesiasticall deliuered by word of mouth vpon what sure grounds might wee be assured which be the Traditions that were so deliuered by Christ his Apostles or the Church Papist The ancient Fathers chiefe Papists doe plainely teach that many points of doctrine wherein you varie from vs as halowing the Font the blessing of the oyle the anointing the Baptized Exorcismes Fastes Festiuities prayer for the dead prayer to Saints worshipping of Images the oblation of the Sacrifice their Annealing their Primacie of Rome their fiue pretended Sacraments the merit of workes their satisfactions the numbring their sinnes to the Priest their Real presence their halfe CommunioÌ„ c. See the preface for Priests and See Master Middletons booke called Papisto-Mastix Sect. 5. almost all these things which you defend against vs are proued by the Fathers to be deliuered by Tradition Protestant 12 This sheweth euidently that you are guilty of the same fault that the Pharises were Mark 7.9 by Christs owne reproofe saying You cast aside the commaundements of God to maintaine your owne Traditions Mat 15.9 teaching for doctrine
rather to the whole Church consisting of the faithfull as the Protestants vnderstand it S. August saith Aug. in Psal 47. in prâ—ef We may not vnderstand the second of the Sabbath to be any other than the Church of Christ yet the Church of Christ in the Saints the church of Christ in those that are not ouercome with the tentations of this wicked world for they are worthy the name of firmament Therfore the church of Christ is called the firmament in those that are firme which is saith hee the Church of the liuing God the pillar and firmament of trueth Aug. de Bap li. 7. cap 3 Tom. 6. The like saying hath S. Augustine in many other places but specially where he writeth against the Donatists Saint Chrysostome expoundeth this place of the verity it selfe Chrys Hoâ— 11 in 1. Tim. 3. and not of the Pastors or Councels as the Papists do For sayth he the verity of the church is both the pillar and the firmament And if you will sée that the Fathers haue vnderstood the church as the Protestants do reade S. Augu. Enchirid. â— Laurent caâ— 56. expounding the Articles of the Créed where he saith that the Church is here to be taken for the whole not for that part onely which is a stranger vpon earth Aug. in Psal 137. Againe he saith There is a Church beneath there is a Church aboue the Church beneath in all the faithfull c. Ibid. Psal 90. Conc. 2. Likewise the whole church euery where diffused is the body of Christ and hee is the head of it Not onely the faithfull which are now but also they that were before vs from the beginning of the world and they that shall be after vs to the ende of the world doe all pertaine to this bodie The church is the bodie of Christ not the church which is here or there but which is here and euery where thorowout the world c. And often times in his writings he affirmeth the Catholike church to consist of all the predestinate De ciuitat Dei li. 21. ca. 25. de Bapt. â—i 6. ca. 3. In Iohn Tract 45. which are the members of Christs mysticall bodie and that no wicked men perteine vnto it but only the good holy and iust But to conclude this point with one whom you haue euer reputed your owne Anselmus super hunc locum saith The house in which God dwelleth is the whole congregation of the faithfull who are to be taught diuersly and the same Church is in the perfect a pillar that is sublime streight inconcussible supporting and lifting vp the yonger sort and in the same perfect it is the firmament of trueth because both by words and examples it confirmeth in the hearts of the weake the veritie of faith and Gods commandements Thus you sée the Church is by these testimonies vnderstood to be the congregation of the faithfull and not generall Councels or Pope And it is truely gathered out of these words of Anselmus which are to be taught that the church consisteth aswell of the Laity as the Cleargie Now if you will see how the church may be knowen Chrysostome saith Hom. in Mat. 49 Before it might be shewed many waies which was the church of Christ But nowe it is no way to be knowen but onely by the Scriptures S. Augustine saith as we may truely say of the Papists Let the Donatists saith he shew their church De vnitat eccles ca. 16. not in the rumors and speaches of the men of Africa nor in the Councels of their Bishops nor in their discourses of any writer whosoeuer nor in signes and miracles that may be forged but in the prescript of the law in the predictions of the Prophets in the verses of the Psalmes in the voices of the shepheard himselfe in the preachings and workes of the Euangelist that is in all the Canonicall authorities of the sacred Scriptures And binding himselfe to the same condition he addeth But whether they hold the Church Ibidem let them shew no otherwise than by the Canonical books of the holy scriptures because wee our selues doe not say wee must therefore bee beléeued for that wee are in the church of Christ or else for that Optatus Ambrose and infinite other Bishops of our communion haue commended the church which we hold or because our Church hath béen published in the Councels of our Collegues Chrysost in Mat. Hom. 16. Chrysostome sayth Euen so touching this new Ierusalem which is the Church they that were spiritual Christian men leauing the bodily church which the wicked by violence had inuaded departed out froÌ„ them Or as S. Iohn expoundeth it they rather departed out froÌ„ vs for hee séemeth not indeed to depart from the church that bodily departeth but he that spiritually leaueth the foundations of the Ecclesiastical truth We haue departed froÌ„ them in body they haue departed from vs in mind we from them in place they from vs by faith we haue left with them the foundations of the wals they with vs the foundations of the scriptures we are departed froÌ„ them in the sight of man they are departed froÌ„ vs in the iudgement of God But now after that the spirituall church is come forth the bodily church is left forsaken that is to say froÌ„ the people that séemed to be a christian people was not this people is gone forth that séemed not outwardly but was so indéed notwithstanding as we haue said before they are rather departed from vs than we from them Now let the indifferent Reader iudge by Chrysostomes iudgement whether the Papists or we by this description may be truliest reputed the true church for I thinke it is euident to all that they haue the foundations of the wals and we the foundations of the Scriptures which they so blasphemously speak of we are departed froÌ„ them in the sight of man but they froÌ„ vs in the sight of God who they were that séemed to be a christian people and were not let that be tried by the Scriptures And if you wil know what authority the Fathers giue to the church S. Aug. saith Cont. Crescâ— li. 2. ca. 21. Idem oper imperf in Mat. Ho. 49 The church may not preferre her selfe before Christ neither may we beleeue the true churches themselues vnles they say do those things that are consonant to the scriptures The church may not preferre her self before Christ Idem contrâ— Crescon li 2 cap. 21. for so much as hee alwaies iudgeth rightly ecclesiastical Iudges as being but men are often deceiued Many be the testimonies that might be brought to this purpose but to procéed we make the same iust exceptions against general Councels that we did against the Fathers First we will prooue that they are contrary one to another Secondly that they haue erred And lastly that they are reiected by the Papists Canon 59. The first Exception I prooue
same opinion with vs. Panormitane the best of your Canonists yea a reuerend Archbishop and a renowmed Cardinall saith A Councel may erre as otherwise a Councel hath erred about mariage to be contracted betwéene the Rauisher the Rauished and the saying of Hierome as being of the sounder opinion was after preferred before the Statute of the Councel And the argument which Papists make That the church should faile in faith if Councels should erre he reiecteth as friuolous saying Panor ibid. It hindereth vs little if it be said that a Councel cannot erre because Christ prayed for his Church that it should not faile For though a generall Councell represent the whole vniuersall Church yet to speake trueth the vniuersall Church is not there precisely but by representation because the vniuersall Church consisteth of all the faithfull And this is the Church which cannot erre c. Pighius Hieraâ— eccl li. 6. ca. 4. 5. Pighius saith it is certaine that Councels are not the vniuersall Church In none of all the generall Councels shall you find the fathers to haue arrogated thus much to themselues as to say they represented the Catholike Church besides these two last Councels of Constance and Basil which we now impugne And that General Councels may erre he sayth Li. 6. ca. 13. It is certaine that not onely these Councels of Constance and Basil which we now disproue haue shamefully absurdly erred but also many others And againe We find that General Councels euen of holy Fathers haue erred in decrees of faith for example of General Councels The Councell of Ariminum vniuersall no doubt and also the second Councel of Ephesus and that likewise vniuersall These I say are witnesses That euen general Councels and those lawfully gathered may erre The Bishops that were present at Ephesus commplained after in the Councell of Chalcedon Chalced. Conc. Act. 1. that they were threatned and forced Now if Bishops may be forced they may likewise bee circumuented as they were in the Councel of Ariminum or deceiued in opinion as they were in the Councels of Carthage Constance and Basill by the confession of learned Papistes themselues And if they may by all these wayes bee peruerted when they are assembled Ergo they may make both an erronious an iniurious conclusion Wherefore since it appeares euidently by this little that hath béene sayd That Generall Councels are no infallible rule to build our faith on What must wee then doe to finde out a sure Ground whereupon to ground our Religion Papist The last and onely meanes without all exception is the Pope whose faith cannot faile neither can he erre iudicially So that whether with the Councels or without the Councels That which he determineth and teacheth is a certaine trueth That which hee condemneth is a manifest Error Protestant 19 This aunswere doeth manifest to all that are not wilfully blinde that what brags soeuer you make of Fathers and Councels who as Campian boasted in his tenne Reasons were al as sure on your side as Pope Gregory the thirtéenth that yet yet the Pope is the man vpon whom you ground your Religion neither estéeming Fathers Councels or the learned of your owne side further than they may stand and concurre with the Popes good pleasure which by this little Tract may euidently be deduced For first you ground your Religion on the Word the Word on the Fathers the Fathers on Councels and the Councels on the Pope So that in all the controuersies betwéene vs and you we must stand to the censure of your Pope who must be both Iudge and partie And if he giue iudgement on our side I will neuer trust him But to ouerthrowe this pillar of Popery thorowly I will prooue that the Pope hath erred iudicially â—hâ— Test â—uk 22. â—ect 11. For albeit they confesse that the Pope may be an Heretike yea that Liberius the Pope might yéeld in persecution Marcellinus the Pope for feare might commit idolatrie Honorius the Pope might fal to heresie and more than all this that some Iudas might créepe into the office as their Rhemists confesse yet they distinguish betwéene the person and the office And as their last shift and refuge hauing béen driuen by force of reason and examples to acknowledge thus much They now insist vpon this last anchor as their last hope to auoide shipwracke That the Pope cannot erre iudicially that is in their Consistories Courts Councels decrées deliberations or consultations kept for decision and determination of such controuersies doubts or Questions of faith as shall be proposed to them Now what wrangling and shifting is this to aske for the place where and the time when the Pope decréed for error For if he may erre at home he may likewise erre abroad If the Pope be an Heretike in his chamber hee cannot bee a Catholike in his Consistorie And if the Pope may beléeue defend and preach an error what néede we care whether his sentence be conclusiue or perswasiue definitiue or interlocutorie And if you thinke that this idle distinction can frée your Pope from his errors because thy haue not been definitiuely pronounced in their publike Consistories wee could name infinite Bishops and churches that haue not erred in this precise maner For how can you prooue that euer the Bishops of Yorke or Durham in England of Poycters or Lions in France of Valeria or Corduba in Spaine of Rauenna or Rhegium in Italy of Corinth or Athens in Greece of Miletus or Sardis in Asia gaue definitiue sentence against the faith in their publike Consistories Infinite others might be obiected against whom it could neuer bee proued that they haue erred in this kind and therfore this cannot but be a strong Bulwark wheron you depend boast That it cannot be prooued that the Bishop of Rome hath erred iudicially or definitiuely For if Popes haue erred in writing and teaching they were as right Heretikes as euer were Arrius Sabellius Nestorius Eutiches and such like which neuer gaue Definitiue sentence against the faith in Courts and Consistories but onely taught or wrote against the trueth But this new Popery was not then nor many yéeres after found out though the quaint Iesuits haue of late refined their late Poperie to giue a colour to the Popes priuiledge And albeit this were sufficient yet will I briefly procéede and prooue that the Pope hath erred Definitiuely or Iudicially as his Decretals which are Definitiue sentences shall euidently prooue In Chronic. Supputat Romanor poÌ„t de Reg. â—tal li. 6. First Sigebert Martinus Polonus and Sigonius doe witnesse that Pope Stephen the 6. decréed in a Councel That they who were ordained Bishops by Pope Formosus were not ordained lawfully because the man was wicked by whome they were ordained And hee did not onely depriue and vnordaine them who were ordeined by Formosus but he decréed too as Sigebert noteth Ordinationes eius omnes irritaâ— esse debere decernit That all
than Clergie men to be discerners of trueth And it is euident by the Scriptures that there is a limitation howe farre the Bishops and Cleargie are to be obeyed and what they are to teach For S. Paul saith Be yee followers of me as I am of Christ 1 Cor. 7. So that he requireth no more of the Corinthians than to follow him as hee followeth Christ And this made him so diligently to distinguish the precepts of Christ from his owne Councels To the married I commaund not I but the Lord to the rest I speake not the Lord. And our Sauiour Christ when he gaue commission to his Apostles He bids them Mat. 28.19 20. Goe teach all nations but what To obserue all things whatsoeuer I haue commanded you And therefore Chrysostome alleaging the wordes of Saint Paul Chrys in 1. ca. 2 Epist ad Tim. Hom. 2. Obey your Ouerseers or Prelates doeth thus limite them But if hee peruert anie poynt of faith though hee be an Angell obey him not And straight after Wee must not obey Paul himselfe if he speake any thing of his owne or as a man but we must obey the Apostle bearing Christ about that speaketh in him It is not lawfull saith Tertullian to deuise any thing of our selues Tertul. de praescrip advers Haeret. nor to follow that which others haue deuised wee haue the Apostles of the Lord for our Authors who deuised nothing of their owne heads but deliuered faithfully to the nations the doctrine which they receiued of Christ Therefore though an Angel from heauen should preach otherwise wee should count him accursed * Chrysost operis imper Ho. 20. in 7. ca. Mat. Euery teacher is a seruant of the Law because hee may neither adde of his owne sense vnto the Lawe nor according to his owne conceit take any thing from the Law but preach that onely which is found in the Law And these instructions both of Fathers and Scriptures were to little purpose if wee were not by them taught how to eschew the euill and followe the good And surely if the Vicars Consistorie and Seate In Luc. 12. were infallible as the Rhemists affirme what néede wee respect or studie to knowe the infinite Testimonies of Scriptures and Fathers brought to this purpose But this doeth not prooue that they are priuiledged and exempted from Erring For the Scriptures which were written for our instruction doe plainely conuince that both Priests and Prophets haue erred For God by the Prophet Malachie describeth what the Priests should doe and what they had done The Priests lippes should preserue knowledge Mala. 2. and they should seeke the Law at his mouth for he is the messenger of the Lord of hostes But yee are gone out of the way O ye Priests ye haue caused many to fall by the Law ye haue broken the couenant of Leui saith the Lord of hostes And this proud priuiledge which the Popes now challenge was claimed by the wicked Priests in Ieremies time Come Iere. 18 1â— say they let vs imagine some deuise against Ieremie for the Law shal not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the wise nor the word from the Prophet But God assureth them by his Prophet Ezech. 7 2â— for their arrogant presumption That the Law should perish from the Priest and counsell from the ancient What grosse idolatrie Vriah the Priest committed to please King Ahaz 2 King 16.10.11 Esay â—8 the Scriptures will tell you And Esay saith The Priest and the Prophet haue erred they haue gone away they faile in vision they stumble in iudgement And wee knowe there haue béen many Bishops and those orderly succéeding if you looke to their dignity not to the doctrine who haue béen heretickes as Berillus Paulus Samosatinus Photinus Nestorius Dioscorus Petrus Apameus Sergius Cyrus Theodorus Macarius And many others Canonically succeeding in Seates and Churches of no small account And if these fell into pestilent heresies that which was often and easie then is contingent and possible still And succession which saued not them froÌ„ erring cannot defend our Popes from the like danger And therefore are wee forewarned and taught by the Scriptures to beware and take héede of such men For S. Paul saith Actâ— 20. Out of your selues shall arise men speaking peruerse things to drawe disciples after them And the Lord when hee saith Beware of false Prophets Mat. 7. noteth that there shall be Prophets by their calling which shall be found false in their teaching As Saint Peter also witnesseth 2 Pet. 2. There were false Prophets among the people of the Iewes euen as there shall bee false teachers amongst you And to what purpose are these with many other testimonies but to teach vs that we must distinguish godly teachers not by office but by doctrine And if there were not an abilitie in vs in some sort to discerne them in vaine were we taught to beware of them neither had the men of Berea béen so highly commended for the triall of their Pastors doctrine Acts 17.11 if it had either béen vnlawfull or not their duety so to haue done But it séemes the Papists insist much vpon the outward quiet of their Church holding out this Buggebeare That the Church cannot erre assuming therby to be lords of scriptures Fathers Councels and all when they list But what hereticall Church may not haue the same quietnesse vpon the same perswasion and yet it preuailes in none but those that can be perswaded That this false priuiledge of not erring belongs to the Church taking the Church in the same sense which the Papists in this Tract vnderstand it of Fathers Councels and the Pope And who knowes not that notwithstanding your late Councel of Trent and diuers other Councels and learned bookes of all sides That yet the controuersies are not ended being indéede the neuer ending knotte of Religion For though this perswasion That the Church cannot erre may sometimes bréede an outwarde quietnesse in the Church yet it hath no force to establish men in the vnitie of Trueth since it may both deceiue and bée deceiued as is in this Treatise prooued Nor to end controuersies because all beléeue it not nor to abolish heresies which many times it may fauour as is euident by some fewe examples both of Popes and Councels before alleaged For further example put the case That some of the Church are perswaded according to Christs Institution and the practise of the Church of Corinth that the Laitie are not to be robbed of the Cup but are to receiue the Eucharist in both kinds and hereby call the priuiledge of the Churches not erring into Question how shall this be decided Shall it be sufficient for the Church or Pope to say I cannot erre and for proofe thereof to call all his Cardinals Abbots and Bishops to auow the same though it be contrary both to Scriptures Fathers and the long continued practice of the Church of
Christ hauing neuer béene prohibited as vnlawfull vntill the Councell of Constance which was 1400. yéeres after Christ But Controuersies may be ended and heresies abolished either by conuincing those out of the Scriptures that maintaine them as diuers heretikes were before either Pope or Councell were thought of Or by the authoritie of the Magistrate commanding for trueth and inioining their silence and obedience â— Chro. 14. â— 3 4 5. according to the examples of Asa the King of Iudah who commanded his people to doe according to the Law â— Chro. 29. c. And Ezechiah who restored the worship of God and diuers other Kings in the old Testament 2. Chro. 17 ver 3 4 5 8. ca. 19 ver 4 8 9 10 11 c 33. v. 11 12 13 15. câ— 34. v. 3 4 7 29.30 3â— 32 33. câ— 35. v. 1 2 3 4.5 6. as Iehoshaphat Manasses Iosiah and others yea Salomon did dedicate the Temple in his owne person and * 1. King 8. ca. 2. v. 3 cast out Abiathar from being Priest vnto the Lord and placed Zadok in his roume And Saint Austine in many places sheweth Kings are charged with Gods Law in respect of commanding it to others In the times of the Prophets saith he All the Kings which in the people of God did not forbid and ouerthrowe those things Aug. Epi. 5 which were brought in against the commandements of God are blamed and they that did prohibit and subuert such things are praised aboue the rest And for that part of the obiection that wee leaue euery man to his priuate exposition which though therein wee are wrongfully charged by our aduersaries yet the trueth is we challenge not to our selues as the Papists do the true interpretation of the Scriptures as if they were appropriated vnto vs But we submit our selues and our interpretations whatsoeuer according to the Generall and receiued doctrine of the Fathers in that point to be compared and tried by the Scriptures Or to auoide your cauelling if you will to the Church which are men speaking by the Scriptures Neither is this part of the obiection of so great weight or consequence as it may séeme at the first blush For most of the differences betwéene vs and the Papists are not touching the sense of the Scripture séeing it is confessed by learned Papists as I haue prooued in the preface of this booke that most of the doctrines wherein they vary from vs are grounded on Tradition And all men of reason know that where ther is no Text there néedes no Interpreter All the danger therefore lieth in the last part of the obiection when mens corrupt affections may take those things for trueth which are not and reiect those which are a thing impossible to bee preuented since euery man vnderstands according to the capacitie and conceite whereof himselfe is And herein likewise is the doctrine of Christ verefied as Saint Paul sayth 2. Cor. 4.3 If our Gospell bee hidde it is hidde to them that are lost For no man can come vnto mee sayth Christ except the Father which haue sent me drawe him Iohn 6.44 1. Cor. 3.4 6 Yea Paul may plant and Apollo may water but God must giue the increase For though the Sunne bée of most excellent brightnesse yet none can sée it but those which haue eyes euen so is it of the Scriptures which as Saint Peter sayth They that are vnlearned and vnstable 2. Pet. 3.16 doe peruert to their own damnation But shal we leaue the Triall of the Scriptures to which all the Fathers referre vs either because many peruert them or for that the diuel alleaged them or for that it is common to all Heretikes to make challenge and boast of them No for all Heretikes haue béen by the Scriptures rightly vnderstood confuted and confounded yea euen the deuill himselfe Mat. 3.7 as Christs owne example teacheth vs was conuicted by the same weapon wherewith hee thought to haue vanquished our Sauiour But to make this plaine by example what Lawyer will offer to defend a badde cause but hee will bring Lawe for his purpose and shall this debarre or preiudice the other that pleades against him That hée shall not by Lawe conuince the Errours and Sophistries or Quirkes and Quiddities which are brought against him Nay rather anie man of iudgement hauing heard both parties will readily distinguish and say The one makes a a shewe of Lawe but the other hath Lawe indeede And euen thus it rests in those controuersies that are betweene vs and the Papists touching the Sense of the Scripture onely and not for those differences which the maintaine by Tradition Petr. â— Soto adu Brent Canisi in catechi ca. 5. Lindan in pan li. 4. ca. 100. Peresius par 3. Rhe. Test Gal. 2. sect 4 which by the iudgement of their owne men as I haue already shewed are the greater number And albeit the Rhemists would insinuate That the controuersies betweene vs are whether the Iudge or the Euidence bee of greater authority yet that shift will not serue them for all men of iudgement knowe that that is not the question betwéene vs. But the difference is whether the Iudge or the Law bee of greater authoritie where euery wise man will graunt the Lawe to be supreame whereunto the Iudge is to obey and according to which to giue his sentence or else by the Lawe his erronious iudgement is to be reuersed Neither is there other Iudiciall authority in the Church than in the common wealth which is to determine controuersies according to the Lawe and the true meaning thereof And if there be question of the Sense of the Law The Lawmakers minde is to be discussed by his wordes and the circumstances and occasions of making the Lawe And euen so the meaning of the Scripture is to be taken onely out of the Scripture as Clemens saith â—iâ— 37. ca. â—elatum You ought not to seeke a strange and forraine sense without the Scriptures that you may confirme it by any means by the Scriptures But sense of trueth you must take out of the Scriptures themselues Saint Augustine * Confess Aug. praef ad lecto whose doctrine your selues doe acknowledge to be grounded on the lawes the maners the iudgements of all the Catholike Church whom you call a witnesse of the sincere trueth and Catholike Religion such a witnesse as no exception can be made against who assureth you as you say not onely of his owne but also of the common the constant faith and confession of the ancient Fathers and the Apostolike Church This Augustine hath written foure bookes of Christian doctrine wherein he purposely intreateth howe men should vnderstand the Scripture and expound it The summe of all his Treatise doeth aime at this marke That a Aug. de doct Christ li. 1. ca. 2. the meaning of the Scripture must bee learned out of the Scripture by the consideration of things
and wordes in it That b Ca. 35. the ende whereto c Ca. 37. the matter whereof it is all written bee marked in generall d Ca. 35. 40. and all be vnderstood according to that end and matter e Li. 2. ca. 8 that all bee read ouer and ouer f Ca. 9. and those things chiefly noted which are set downe plainely both precepts of life and rules of beleefe because that all things which concerne beliefe and life are plainely written in it That obscure and darke speaches be lightened and opened by the plaine and manifest that to remoue the doubt of vncertaine sentences the cleare certain be followed that g Ca. 11. recourse be had vnto the Greeke and Hebrew copies to cleare out of the fountains if the translation be muddy that h Li. 3. ca. 2 3. doubtfull places bee expounded by the rule of faith which we are taught out of the plainer places of the Scripture that i Ca. 1. all the circuÌ„stances of the text be weighed what goeth before what coÌ„meth after the maner how k Ca. 10. the cause why l Ca. 17. the men to whom m Ca. 18. the time when euery thing is said to be short that n Ca. 27. we seeke to know stil the will meaning of the Author by whoÌ„ the holy Ghost hath spokeÌ„ if we find it not yet giue such a sense as agreeth with the right faith approued by some othe place of scripture o C. 18. If a sense be giueÌ„ the vncertainty wherof cannot be discussed by certain sure testimonies of scripture it might be proued by reason but this custom is dangerous the safer way far is to walke by the scripture the which being shadowed with darke and borrowed words when we mind to search let either that come out of it which hath no doubt coÌ„trouersie or if it haue doubt let it be determined by the same scripture through witnesses to be fouÌ„d vsed thence whersoeuer that so to conclude p Li. 4. ca. 3 all places of the scriptures be expounded by the Scriptures the which are canonical as being the Canon that is to say the rule of godlines faith All which rules we confidently imbrace And we constantly affirme that neither he nor any other auncient Father did euer attribute the expounding of the Scripture for the true sense therof to any Pope or bishop whatsoeuer And although D. Stapl. except against these Rules of S. Austin which is common to all Papists by special priuiledge when the Fathers make against them as I haue already partly proued and shal appeare to any that for a clearer manifestatioÌ„ therof wil take a view of their Index expurgator yet doth S. Austin iustifie himself De doctr Christia li 1 a Prolo saying If they who know these precepts cannot see the things which are obscure darke in the scriptures of God the fault is in themselues not in the precepts as if I should point with my finger at a starre which they would gladly see and their eye-sight were so weake that although they could see my finger yet could they not see the starre at which I point Let them saith he cease to blame mee and let them pray to God that hee will giue them eye-sight And to the ende I may giue some proofe of euery thing I affirme and to giue a taste of the vile practise of the Papists It shall not be amisse to set downe their owne words namely the iudgement of the Vniuersitie of Doway approued by the Censors of the Councel of Trent concerning the booke of Bertram according to the Decree of the Councel the Title Vt liber Bertram c. How the booke of Bertram Index expurg 8. pag. â—1 Priest of the Bodie and Blood of our Lord being amended may beÌ„ tolerated Although wee make no great account of this booke therfore we would not greatly care if either it were no where extant or vtterly lost yet seeing it hath been already ofteÌ„times reprinted hath been read of most men and being prohibited by name hath been made knowen to all men seeing also the heretikes do know of the prohibition thereof by diuers Catalogues and that he was a Catholike Priest and a Monke of the Abbey of Corbey and was welbeloued and reuerenced not so much of Carolus Magnus as of Carolus Caluus and doth helpe the story of that age And seeing that in other ancient Catholike writers wee beare very many errors and extenuate them excuse them and very often times by deuising some pretie shift we denie them Excogitato Commento and do faine some commodious sense vnto them when they are opposed aginst vs in disputation or in conflicts with the aduersaries wee do not see why Bertram doeth not deserue the same equity and diligent Recognition lest the Heretikes should Iangle against vs that wee burne vp and prohibite Antiquitie which maketh for them and therfore it is no maruel that so few things seeme to make for them when wee Catholikes do so vnreuerently hisse out and destroy antiquitie which but in shewe dissenteth from vs. Moreouer we feare least this booke not onely by Heretikes but also by vnruly Catholikes by meanes of the prohibition thereof may be read more greedily alleaged more odiously and doe more hurt being inhibited than if it were permitted And vpon these considerations they take order and shew how this booke at the next printing shall be falsified by adding putting out changing of the Wordes and Sentences and by peruerting the whole scope and meaning of the Author The last part of the obiection is that there must bee some Tribunall on earth to iudge which is trueth And in this Question they réele sometime to the Church and sometime to the Pope who they will haue to bee Iudge of trueth and that the Church which sometime they intitle to the Pope and sometime to Generall Councels are to be iudge of the Scriptures To this I answere That absolute Iudge of trueth can no man be for God is truth of God I trust no man may be Iudge The Sonne of God saith of himselfe Iohn 14. 1. Iohn 5. I am truth and S. Iohn testifieth The spirit is truth Therefore ye can be no Iudges of trueth vnles you will be Iudges of God And the Father hath committed all iudgement to the Sonne and my iudgment Iohn 5. 8. saith Christ is Iust Christ saith My sheep heare my voice They be no iudges of his voice which is the Scriptures A Iudge of the Law is no obseruer of the Law as S. Iames insinuateth since the whole Church is bound to obey the Law of God Iam. ca. 4. they be no iudges of the law S. Austin saith It is inferiour to vs Aug. in Psa Idem de vera religio ca. 31. whatsoeuer we be Iudges of And again The eternall Law of God therefore it is lawful
you séene briefly A view of the weaknesse of the Grounds wheron the Papists build their Religion which in a word is The Popes good pleasure And notwithstanding I haue in this small Tract layd downe our iust Exceptions both against Fathers and Councels yet would I haue none rashly to censure that we reiect al the Fathers and Councels for we imbrace them as wholesome meanes by which great light hath béene brought to the Church of God both in the Exposition of the Scriptures and the abolishing and confuting of Heresies But wee reiect with great reason the partiality that is now vsed in calling of Councels which must now only be done by the Pope of which he onely must be President and Iudge contrary to the order of the first 4. Generall Councels which Gregory professeth to receiue as the 4. holy Gospels Neither is any thing of force that is now decréed in Councel vnles it be confirmed by the Pope though in the first 4. Councels the Pope was neither President by himselfe nor his Legates neither needed they his confirmation Besides the whole order of Councels are now inuerted by the Popes contrary both to the institution of the Apostles in the first Councel holden by them â—ct 15.22 â—3 and to all antiquity For now none must haue determining voyces but the Bishops and they must sweare and take this oath before they sit in Councel the forme whereof thus followeth â—ecret li. 2. â—r 24. ca. 4. I R.N. will be faithfull from henceforth to S. Peter and to the holy Church of Rome and to my lord Boniface the Pope to his successors chosen Canonically and I will bee an helper to defend against all the world the Popedome or papall superioritie and the rules of the holy Fathers So God mee helpe and the holy Gospel According to that detestable clause annexed to the Decrees of reformation in the Councel of Trent Ses 7. in prooe Seâ— 25. de Reformat ca. vlt. Salua semper in omnibus authoritate sedis Apostolicae Prouided alwayes that the Popes authority be safe and no way preiudiced So that still he will alwaies haue a non obstante notwithstanding any law to the contrary to breake through all lawes to doe what he list But to conclude wee acknowledge according to the Scriptures That there are two sorts of iudgements in the Church of God The one priuate and the other publike priuate to all the faithful and spirituall 1 Cor. 2.15 10.15 Ioh. 4.1 as God calleth them who are willed to iudge of that which is taught and to trie the Spirits whether they be of God Publike to the asssmbly of the Pastors and Elders Act. 15.6 1. Cor. 14. for of that which Prophets teach let Prophets iudge And the spirits of the Prophets are subiect to the Prophets In all which the Scripture is the rule by which the Church must be directed neither hath she other authority than the ministery of giuing iudgement For the Soueraignty of iudgement must rest on Gods word Mat. 22.10 Iam. 4.12 For Christ is our only Doctor Lawgiuer The Lord open your eyes that you may sée the Truth and be thankefull to God FINIS An Abstract of the chiefe Points of this booke FIrst That all the Fathers do with general consent attribute all sufficiencie to the Scriptures making them the Rule of faith and the absolute meanes to determine all doubts and controuersies preferring them before the Church and all other writings of men whatsoeuer and further that the Church is no otherwise to be shewed or knowen but by the Canonicall Scriptures and that themselues and their opinions without the Scriptures are not to bee beleeued but reiected See the Preface and pag. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 45. 46. 47. 52. 2 That the Scriptures are to be expounded by the Scriptures and that we are not tied for the exposition thereof to any Father Councell or Pope And that no Papist can shew the consent of the Fathers that the scriptures are to be expouÌ„ded by any Father Councell or Pope See pag. 88. 89. 90. 91. 3 That the Fathers agree with vs taking the greater part in approouing those Scriptures which the Protestants doe to be Canonicall and in reiecting those which we do for Apocrypha See pag. 4. 5. 4 That the Fathers take the word Tradition sometimes for the Scriptures sometimes for the Customes and Ceremonies of the Church and the Papists which vrge them for matter of doctrine vnwritten and to bee of equall authoritie with the Scriptures doe depraue the Fathers making their doctrines contrary one to another yea contrary to themselues See the Preface 5 That chiefe Papists and pillars of Popery haue confessed that many and most of the doctrines wherein they varie from vs are grounded vpon Traditions And that it is extreame madnesse to thinke that the whole and entire body of Euangelical doctrine is to bee fetched out of the Apostolike writings and out of that little Booke of the New Testament In which doctrine they goe wholly against the streame of the Fathers and also discouer their abusing of the simplicity of their followers when they make them beleeue the greatest difference betweene them and vs is touching the sense of the Scriptures whereas by this their confession this consequent necessarily followeth That where there is no Text there needes no Interpreter See the Preface 6 That the Papists haue vttered open blasphemy in their bookes against the Scriptures in taxing them of insufficiencie in tearming them a Nose of waxe Inkie diuinitie dumbe Iudges no better than Aesops Fables without the authority of the Church That they take their authority from the Church That sometimes they are to bee expounded one way sometimes another That the Scriptures must folow the Church and not the Church the Scriptures preferring the authoritie of the Church aboue and against the Scriptures All which blasphemies are refuted not onely by the direct texts of Scripture but by the generall consent of the Fathers See the Preface 7 That the Papists vrge the credit of the Fathers for the receiuing of Traditions and though there be many Traditions which by the Fathers testimony haue the same authoritie to prooue them to be Apostolike that the others haue Yet the Papists receiue the one and reiect the other See pag. 12. 13. 8 That the Fathers haue held diuers errors vpon which it necessarily followeth that if they might erre in one thing they might erre in another And that their iudgements are often reiected by the Papists and therefore may with as great reason be reiected by vs and consequently are no perfite Rule to build our Religion on which euen the Fathers themselues confesse See pag. 20. 21. 22 23. 16. 17. 9 That there be many Counterfeits that haue vsurped the names of auncient Fathers wherby it is hard to discerne when a true Father and when a false speakes And though some of these Fathers be censured for counterfeits
the ordainings of Formosus ought to be void And this * Pag 42. 7 Concil Rauen An. Do 898. Sigon de Reg. Itaâ— li. 6. Master Hart against Doctor Raynolds confesseth to be an error in faith And Iohn the ninth in the Councel of Rauenna condemned Stephen and his Councell and therein their new ordainings are forbidden and matched with new Baptizings Pope Coelestine the third did set forth a decrée that when of married persons one falleth into heresie the marriage is dissolued and the Catholike partie is free to marrie againe Mat. 19.9 flat against the Scriptures And Alfonsus Alfon. à Castro aduer Haeres li. 1. ca. 4. a famous patron of the Papacie doeth shewe that he defined it For that Pope Coelestine did erre saith Alfonsus about the marriage of the faithfull of whome one falleth into Heresie It is manifest to all men Neither was this errour of Coelestine such as ought to bee imputed to negligence alone That wee may say he erred as a priuate man and not as a Pope who in defining of any serious matter should aske counsel of learned men For this definition of Coelestine was extant in the olde Decretals which I my selfe haue séene and read Super quart decretal c. quanto de â—iuortijs â— IdeÌ„ siquidem de coÌ„â—ers infid c. audabilem Gratia dist 9. c. in â—omi § â—drian in 4 â—ent de conâ—irma ca. vlt. Gerson Almain Paâ—isieÌ„ses Theâ—logi Decret li 4. â—e diuort â—uanto â— Ibid. praedecessor Decretal li. â— de deâ—oÌ„sa duoruÌ„ 〈◊〉 licet praeter And this is confirmed by Cardinal Hostiensis who noteth the very paragraph of the Chapter in the which it was and speaketh of it as a Decretall And that the Pope may erre in iudgement of faith Gratian Adrian Gerson and Almaine the Diuines of Paris affirme Innocentius the third when he decided the cause confessed that one of his predecessors had decréed otherwise which saith the Gloze was Coelestinus whose resolution was in the old Decretals and it was euill that Coelestinus sayd Alexander the third in a matter of great importance sayd Quamuis aliter à quibusdam praedecessoribus nostris sit aliquando iudicatum Though some of our predecessors haue heretofore otherwise giuen iudgement And if you obiect for you will euer find some shift that these were matters of mariage and not of faith as though the seuering of those whome God hath ioyned did not touch the faith â—e conse â—istin 2. Ego Beren Nicolaus the second in a Councell of 114. Bishops appointed Berengarius to confesse That the very body of Christ is in trueth and sensually broken and bruised in pieces with the téeth of the faithfull And this confession the Pope receiued allowed and sent to the Bishops of Italy Germany and France as Catholike which your owne Gloze saith Ibid. c. dentibus is a greater heresie than euer Berengarius held vnlesse you vnderstand this of the outwarde formes of Bread and Wine and not of the body of Christ Honorius the Pope did hold and teach the Monothelites heresie 1. Tim. 3 16 Luk. 22.42 who whereas Christ is made our Sauiour and Redéemer by that he doeth consist of two natures God and man and as of two natures so of two willes agréeable to the natures they say that Christ hath but one will onely and by consequent but one nature The sixt general Councel hath handled the cause of the Monotholite heretikes in 18. actions as they are tearmed In the first action the 8. and the 11. the heretikes alleage in their owne defence that Pope Honorius taught as they do In the 12. 13. his writings are examined his heresie discouered himselfe condemned and cursed In the 16. 17 18. Honor. haâ—retico Anthema the sentence which was giuen against him and the curse are repeated often againe and againe with acclamation of the Councel yea the principal point of his Decrées Vid Raynâ— ver Hart â— diu 2. pag 293. set forth to teach the Church was the Monothelites heresie this is confirmed by chiefe Papists Abbas Vrsâ—erg Ann. 1080. â—aâ—ciculus â—er sciendar â—n vita â—est Hildeâ—randi Pope Gregory the 7. was condemned by the Bishops of France and Germany as the ancient disciple of the Heretike Berengarius and swaruing from the true faith And in speciall words This is Hildebrands Decree in which hee erred from the Catholike doctrine and faith Now let the indifferent Reader iudge betwéene you and vs whether the Pope be a competent iudge But how may it appeare that to him is committed so great a charge and that his sentence is so absolute that all authorities of Scripture Fathers and Councels must submit themselues to his Censure Papist The absolute authority of his Holinesse is prooued by many places of Scripture as Thou art Peter Mat. 16.18 and vpon this Rocke will I build my Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it â—uk 22.32 and I haue prayed for thee Peter that thy faith faile not and Thou being conuerted strengthen thy brethren and Feede my sheepe â—oh 21.17 Feede my lambes And many other places of Scriptures Fathers and Councels doe conferre this speciall priuiledge vpon Peter and Peters Successours By which means all Controuersies whatsoeuer may be determined Protestant This is strange Diuinitie and stranger Logicke Christ sayd Thou art Peter vpon this Rocke will I build my Church Ergo the Church is builded onely vpon Peter and the Pope The gates of hell shall neuer preuaile against the Church Ergo Peter and the Pope are the Church against which the gates of hell shall not preuaile I haue prayed for thée Peter that thy faith faile not Ergo whatsoeuer is determined by the Pope is not subiect to error And Christ sayd to Peter Feede my shéepe Ergo hée made him supreame head of the Apostles Or thus Christ did charge Peter to féede his shéepe But the Apostles were shéepe of Christ Ergo hee had the charge of féeding them also and so had absolute authority Nowe to make you sée the folly of this manner of reasoning obserue this argument and you shall by that meanes easily discerne the weakenesse of your owne reason Christ did charge his Apostles to preach the Gospel to euery creature But Peter was a creature Ergo they had charge of preaching to him also And this must néedes ouersway your reason if a man would play with words For Christ said not to Peter féede al my sheep but he said to the Apostles preach to euery creature And if these consequents bée good then is it an easie and a safe way to decide all differences and wee might well haue spared all these paines for it will necessarily follow that if the Pope cannot erre in any point of doctrine or discipline of the Church then the Scriptures Fathers Councels are superfluous Act. 15. Neither is that Gloze to any purpose that the Rhemists
make That the various meanes of determination triall and declaration of the trueth is necessary for the recouery of Heretikes and for the contentation of the weake who not alwaies giuing ouer to one mans determination wil either yéeld to the iudgement of all the learned men and Blshops of all Nations or else remaine desperate For since there is so variable censures of Councels Aene. Sylu. de Concil Basil contr Flor. Ferrar in Conc. indict Concil Const Sess 4. 5. some holding the Pope to bee aboue the Councell and some holding the Councell to be aboue the Pope If this point be soundly prooued That Peters Sée hath so the assistance of the holy Ghost that it cannot erre all other causes of the necessitie of Fathers or learned Bishops of all Nations is superfluous for if the priuiledge of not erring belong to the Pope and his successors why is it made common to them with the rest of the Church If it appertaine to the whole Church why is it appropriated to the Pope But why doe they bring Scriptures to prooue this speciall priuiledge to belong to the Pope Séeing Canus and Bellarmine two great Champions of the Romish Church doe both confesse that It is not in the Scripture but by Tradition that the Pope hath this supremacie Locor Theolo li 6. c. 8. First Canus doth graunt That it is not written in the Scriptures that the Pope succeedeth Peter in the supremacie And Bellarmine the great Iesuite sayth That whereas Canus thought that the stories haue sufficient ground to conuey Peters right vnto the Pope because they say Peter set his chaire at Rome there died yet sayth he Controu 4. q. 5. de pont finitae 26. Maij. An. 1578. if learned men shall not allow of that Another ground may bee that the Church receiued it though not by Scripture yet by Tradition And to put the matter out of controuersie he defineth that indeed it is a Tradition not of Christ Licet Romanos Episcopos Petro succedere in sacris libris nō habeatur Scriptum ab Apostolis tamen Ecclesiae quasi per Manus Traditum est Romanum pontificem esse Petri successorem in pontificatu totius orbis habetur extraditione Apostolica etri but of the Apostles and lest we should doubt of which of the Apostles he nameth the man Peter euen a tradition of Peter And therefore if you will follow the iudgement of this learned Iesuite which you all receiue with so great applause then renounce the vnlearned follies of your Rhemists and others who violently wrest the Scriptures to prooue the Popes priuiledge For when you vrge these places Thou art Peter and on this rocke c. and I haue prayed for thee Peter and Peter feede my sheepe You presume much of the simplicitie of your hearers otherwise you would neuer reason so absurdly For though Stapleton and some others vpon the 16. of Matth. by these words Thou art Peter c. alleage the first Popes of Rome most holy martyrs to prooue the Popes Supremacie by the Scriptures and do reckon vp Anacletus Alexander the 1. Pius the 1. Victor Zepherinus Marcellus Melchiades Locor Theolo li. 6. c. 8 Bellar. cont 4. q. 5. Iulius and others yet doeth Canus and Bellarmine prooue that it is grounded on Tradition and Canus doth cite for witnesses therof the first Popes of Rome most holy martyrs And the same Popes which are alleaged by Canus to prooue the Supremacie to be an vnwritten trueth the very same Popes are alleaged by Stapletō to proue that It is written euen Anacletus Victor Zepherinus Marcellus Melchiades Iulius yea the very same Epistles are alleaged by Stapletō which are alleaged by Canus Now if they be rightly cited by Canus how may we trust Stapletō if rightly by Stapl. how may we trust Canus if rightly by both what trim Popes are they the with one breath do say That the same thing is both written and vnwritten But the Iesuite dealeth more warily who séeing the danger of naming speciall men and places doeth shrowde himselfe in the generall tearmes of Councels Popes and Fathers Thus you sée how the Lord doth sheath the swords of the Madianites in their owne sides Iudg. 7.22 But let vs sée how the Fathers vnderstood these Scriptures that are brought to priuiledge the Pope from erring and set downe their sayings at large though we haue briefly before in the 14. Question part 3 vrged their authorities Aug. de ver Domini secundū Mat. serm 13. S. Augustine expoundeth the first place thus Thou art Peter saith Christ and vpon this Rocke which thou hast confessed vpon this Rocke which thou hast acknowledged by saying Thou art Christ the Sonne of the liuing God wil I build my Church that is vpon my selfe the Sonne of the liuing God will I build my Church I wil build thee vpon me not my selfe vpon thee S. Hillary saith Hillar de Trin. li. 30 This onely is the immoueable foundation This onely is the happy rocke of faith which was confessed by Peters mouth Thou art the Son of the liuing God Then vpō this rock of cōfession standeth the building of the Church Ambr. in 2. ca. epist ad Ephe. Saint Ambrose saith The Lord saith to Peter Vpon this rocke will I build my Church that is in this confession of the Catholike faith Faith therefore is the foundation of the Church for it was not spoken of Peters flesh but of faith That hell gates should not preuaile against it but that confession conquered hell Chrys Hom. 55. in Mat. Chrysostome sayth Vpon this Rocke will I build my Church that is vpon this faith and confession Bed in ca. 21. Iohan. Bede likewise Vpon this Rocke which thou hast confessed will I build my Church That Rocke was Christ vpon the which foundation euen Peter himselfe was to be builded 1. Cor. 3. These Fathers meane as Saint Paul doth saying Another foundation can no man lay than that which is already layd which is Iesus Christ Others there are of the Fathers that applie this rocke to Peter but not as though he alone were the foundation but including the rest with him Hiero. lib. 1. aduer Iouin As for example Saint Hierom saith Thou wilt say the Church is built on Peter notwithstanding the selfe same in another place is done vpon al the Apostles and they all receiue the Keyes of the kingdome of heauen and the stedfastnesse of the Church is equally setled vpon them Origen sayth If onely vpon Peter Origen in 16. Math. Tract 1. thou thinkest the whole Church to be built what wilt thou say to Iohn and euery of the Apostles shall wee dare say that against Peter onely the gates of hell shall not preuaile And that also vpon this Rocke I will builde my Church For if this speach To thee will I giue the Keyes of the kingdome of heauen be common to all why then should