Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	paul_n	pillar_n	3,773	5	10.4418	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A26882	Catholick communion doubly defended by Dr. Owens, vindicator, and Richard Baxter and the state of that communion opened, and the questions discussed, whether there be any displeasure at sin, or repentance for it in Heaven : with a parallel of the case of using a faulty translation of Scripture, and a faulty lyturgy.	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.	1684 (1684)	Wing B1208; ESTC R11859	46,778	44

Bishop of Lincoln the Bishop of Hereford Dr. Peter Moulin Dr. Stillingfleet and many more have done is known Your Mr. Mat. M●ad once commended a Conformist for a Benefice to me with these words I take him to be the holiest Man I know I have loved him the better ever since for his Candor Charity and Impartiality SECT 6. An Expository Advertisement about naming faulty Persons AS all men ought to have a just regard of their own and their neighbours reputations so the over-much tenderness of the guilty and the proud doth make it a matter of much difficulty for an impartial man to know whether and when he should name or make known the persons whom he doth oppose or blame Though the resolution seem easie both to them that have no charity to caution them and to them that will do no duty that displeaseth others Being called to review my own practice in this I shall give the World an account First of my Judgment in it and then of my doings I. I take such a nomination to be a duty in these cases following 1. In case of necessary defence of the Truth against some dangerous Errour of some men otherwise pious and tolerable the greatest Pillars of the Church have usually named them I hope all those Iudaizers that Paul so sharply writeth against were not in a state of damn●tion Doubtless Peter and Barnabas were not Gal. 2. nor I hope Demas nor all the rest that he saith were not like-minded to Timothy but sought their own and not the things of Jesus Christ And I hope the like of Diotrephes much more assuredly of Iohn that blamed him though that beloved Disciple is thrice named as culpable seeking to be greatest and offering to call for Fire from Heaven and forbidding one to do Miracles in Christs Name And Peter oft and once tremendously Matth. 16. rebuk't by Christ. The sins of Noah and his Sons Lot and his Wife and Daughters Sarah Abraham Isaac Iacob and his Sons Moses Aaron Miriam many Judges Eli David Solomon Rehoboam Asa Hezekiah Iosiah and many more are left on Record in Scripture with their names by him who is LOVE it self and hareth uncharitableness And though we believe not all that Bernard Walaf Strabo and such others though good men believed of Peter Bruis Henricus and other Albigenses Waldenses and Bobemians much less all that Tho. Waldensis saith against Wickliss the wisest Reformers have seen cause to mention some of their mistakes Luthers first mistakes while he disowned not the Papacy and his after sharpness against Carolostadius and Zuinglius are recorded by many that dislike them as he recordeth his distaste of those aforesaid and many more whom he dissented from All that are contradicted by name are not taken by sober men to be graceless or intolerable Swenkfeldius was a man of honour and his Character was that he had an honest heart but not a regulated head and yet the generality of Reformers cryed down his Errours and Sect. The Calvinists write for Communion with the Lutherans and the Moderate Lutherans love the Calvinists yet they write against each other by name as too many Volumes openly shew George Major was a wise and good man though Schlusselburgius and such others number him and his followers as Hereticks as Ca●●vi●● doth the Calixtines Nicholas Gallus and Am●sdorsius were noted Divines and Century Writers though they so used Major and maintained that Good works are not necessary to Salvation for which wiser men did write against them Mat. Flac. Illyricus the chief Century Writer was a Learned Zealous Protestant and yet many more than Melancthon and Beza have left as a blot upon his name that he was so fierce against Ceremonies and unpeaceable and that he maintained that Original Sin is the substance of the Soul Andrew Osiander was a very Learned Protestant high in favour with his Prince yet he and all his followers greatly opposed by the Orthodox Reformers for maintaining that we are justified by Gods Essential Righteousness made ours And Fu●ccius sped the worse for following him though it was for State-Councils that he died How high a Character doth Melancthon and many other the greatest Divines give of Hubertus Languetus as an Honourable Learned Pious Excellent Man and yet it 's now scarce denyed but it was he that wrote Iunius B●●tus though it was long falsly charged on Beza and the Noble ●● Plessis Doubtless Cassander Erasmus Wicelius and Gr●tius were men of great worth that yet for peace owned the Roman Church and Corruptions so far as is not to be justified or overlookt All the Germane Prophets or Fanaticks that Chr. Beckmans Exercitations name and copiously confute were not ungodly or intolerable men Whatever the Pa●●c●lsians Weig●lians and many of the rest were I know not but sure Th●ulerus was a godly man and Grotius commendeth Iohn Ar●di and his followers as men of piety and peace and notwithstanding his vain affected words Iacob Behmen seemed a pious man and I loved many of his chief Followers in England of my acquaintance because their Spirit and Writings were all for Love and Peace and their difficult Gibberish made me fearless of their multiplying or ever doing any great hurt And the Papists quite out-do us in naming their Opponents and their Errours and yet not renouncing Communion with them but keeping them in the bosom of their Church as whole loads of Books written by the Schoolmen and several Sects and Orders against each other shew And specially the Controversies between the Seculars and Regulars sharply handled by Watson in his Quodlibits and divers others And newly Peter Walsh that calls himself Valesius and S●rjeants and his Blaklows Controversies tell us more But none more than the Jesuists and Jansenists did we differ about half as many and weighty points as are recited in the Iesuites Morals and their Charge against the Iansenists we should scarce think each other fit to be Members of one Communion And naming Opponents is oft necessary to make the Reader know what Books we write against for distinction sake 2. And there is yet another great cause of naming faulty men both otherwise godly and heretical The Duty of a Publick or National Repentance oft requireth the mention of publick sins and sinners specially if they be our own God long forbeareth the publick National sins of Ancestors to see if Posterity who are the same Na●ion though not the same Persons will prevent his Judgments by Repentance In which case they must confess their own and their Fore Fathers sins This was the due practice of the Church of Old as Psal. 78. 107. and many other shew and the prayers of Ezra Daniel and others they named many and bewailed more of their National and Fore Fathers sins and if they do not Christ will name them for them as he did the blood shed from Abels till Zach●rias and will revenge all together on the Impenitent Generation Matth. 23. It was not to call dead

praecipientis the Commanders Act The instances before mentioned tell you that this may be obeyed for the Penalty sake when yet the evil of the Command or Law is sinful and so worse than the Penalty or Obedience which are not sin Forgive me for telling you that you should have distinguished the preceptive part of the Law from the matter Commanded by it and the evil of the Law and Law-maker from the evil of the Obeyer and then only have concluded that he that obeyeth a Precept only to avoid the Penalty professeth the Penalty to be worse then his Act of Obedience But he doth not make it worse then the Law or the Law-makers sin If a Law did Command me to appear before a Lay-Civilian who useth the Keys of the Church and this on pain of Death or Imprisonment I may be moved both by Precept and Penalty to appear as being better then either refusal or penalty and yet not think that the Law or Precept is a less evil in itself or its ends to the Law-maker or the publick Whether this thought be right or wrong is nothing to our question so if I were by Law commanded to joyn in the Lyturgy on pain of Death or Imprisonment or being deprived of all other Church Worship I may think this Law worse than my sufferings and yet think my Obedience to it my Duty Yea if a Law bid me play with Childrens Bubbles or any such trisling on pain of Death the Case would be the same And if any should take occasion by your confident judgment to refuse to obey wherever he may not justify the preceptive part of the Law the effect would be worse then of my naming Dr. O. SECT 4. I Told you I have no leisure to write Books for my self now Thus far I have written for Truth and Love and Unity As to all your Charges against my self I say again I will not justify my self My naming Dr. Owen which is so heinously taken I have told you the occasion of To which I truly add 1. I did it as a distinctive note that the Readers might know what it was that I answered 2. And I that use to put my Name to my Writing never dreamt that it would have been taken any worse to name him than to confute a Writing that by common uncontrolled supposition bore his Name Had I thought it would have been taken so ill while the Super-Conformists bear far more it 's two to one but I had forborn it And now it 's done I am yet but little wiser when I think of the publick Cause fore-described I am ready to think it should weigh down all your contrary reasons When I feel in my self an inward averseness to strive with any by ungrateful words and hear from you how ill it 's taken then I dislike it And my own selfish lothness to be the object of the hard thoughts and talk of so many of you is some byass to my judgment I wholly follow the Rule you mention to choose that which doth most good and least hurt And truly the reverence of your own and some others judgment telling me that it doth more hurt than good doth turn the Scales and make me repent that I named the Doctor And I leave your Charges against me to their best advantage to the Reader though my inclination is much to open the mistakes I may give a brief touch to your self for your information which I expect not should affect the Reader suppose your Book to lie open before you Pag. 1. 1. If you thought them not good enough to be his nor intended for publick view why did you wrong him so much and the people much more as to divnlge them with his Name Pag. 2. Do good men take it for a priviledge to hurt the Church uncontradicted 2. The more are displeased with Truth the greater is the disease that needeth it 3. To be zealous for Love against Hatred and its Causes is not so bad as to need to be quenched It is zeal for a Sect against Unity which corrupt nature is for 4. I doubted not but guilt would be impatient 5. It was your Party that wronged his Name by divulging that which you now take for his disgrace Pag. 3. It 's wisely done not to own the Cause I oppose and yet not let men know whether it be for fear of the Law or because you are against it O that I could have fore-known that I might have confuted his Arguments without his Name and displeased no body I thought you had taken them for his Honour and not his Disgrace when so many value them Pag. 4. 1. If they are true they are his Honour If false why should I suffer them to do mischief 2. I named not Mr. Ralphson till all said he openly owned his Books in Prison Had you rather all that Worship God in Parish Churches were persuaded that it is Idolatry than Mr. Ralphson should be confuted by name I hope you have better reasons for concealing your own Name to do mischief un-named is not worth pleading for Pag. 5. If the work be faulty why do you not joyn with me to save men from it And why did your private Letter own it his conjunct with Fame And not one Man yet that I hear of denyeth it 2. I offered you to stop it 3. Is it disingenuity in me to tell you of twenty untruths in your private Letter and many notorious and ingenuity in you to be offended for being told of them rather than for writing them This is to comply with the World that taketh the detecter only for the sinner 4. Is a defensive confutation of Errour dealing severely 5. Agreeing Copies confute you To confute Errour is not worse then to own or defend it Pag. 6. If it be so heinous to confute it why did you divulge it Pag. 7. My Reasons for Love and Concord were long before considered 2. I had heard of them long in many hands though till then I never saw them And you say you saw it a year before 2. It 's strange so knowing a man should think that bad Arguments with a valued Name are not dangerous Yes even against common sense as those for Transubstantiation To confute your self you add that on all sides peoples Opinions are mostly and most strongly mastered by affections and it 's beyond all our power to cure the disorder And yet is there no danger from Names Pag. 8. Must all appearance of Enmity and bitterness be laid aside and Love used c. And yet must we let Men Excommunicate one another and call all to mutual avoidance without contradiction Let Churches and Christians be taught to damn each others Persons and Worship causelesly and take each other for Idolaters for fear of breaking Love and Peace 2. Do you believe that Dr. Owens Name was not known with them before 3. Mr. Warners came out since which I compared with Mr. Ralphsons 4. Can you tell why I was to

cannot have the best Translation is not to keep to the Rule but most grosly to violate it in the greatest Commands against many Scripture Admonitions which vehemently urge you to Love and Unity But good friend if really Christ and Scripture be your Guide I desire no more tell me and lay by partiality Did not Christ and his Apostles use both in the Synagogues Church Meetings and Writings a faulty Translation of the Old Testament and as bad as ours Deny it if you can for shame Though sometimes they varyed they mostly used the Septuagint according to which our faulty Translation of the Old Testament is made as it differs from the Hebrew Is this no Consutation of you Yea Christ and the Apostles used it the rather because it was in common use 2. And are you sure that among so many Greek differing Copies as we have of the New Testament that you use and follow none but the best I would add a similitude supposing that we had just possession of the Publick Church-place● Tythes they are taken from us we can blame them that did it and say over and over We had Possession and therefore it is unlawful to meet in worse Rooms for God must have the best will this hold when you cannot keep possession Will you rather worship no where This is no better than if you would tell all men they should die rather than eat Brown Bread if force take all other from them because it is unjustly done and they had possession of better Good friends keep your possession for me but I own not the famishing of all that are dispos●e●sed If you do I do not Obj. But this case is unlike to that of Lyturgies Answ. 1. The Scripture is Gods own Word A mis-translation maketh that to be his word that is not which sure is a tenderer matter than in what words we speak our own minds to God ●ure a depravation of Scripture is more than a Ceremony Were Lyturgies such an alteration of Gods own words you would more plausibly accuse them One that said God said this or that which he said not was worse tha● one that spake his own words undecently to God To say this is Gods word which i● not is indeed adding to it but so it is not to speak words as our own How much the Septuagint differs from the Hebrew how many Verses it leaveth out how many additions and alterations it maketh is commonly known Christs and the Apostles use of this was no approbation of its faults much less their presence in the Synagogues when others read Moses and the Prophets in them And the Psalms in the Septuagint Translation were part of their Lyturgy For man to speak faultily is no wonder It hath a more plausible pretence for Separation to say that men corrupt the word of God And yet when it is but such an Effect of Humane Imperfection it is no just pretence But yet a word more Qu. 1. Do you think that the Pharisees and Scribes had so much of the gift of Extemporate Prayer that they could and did use to make long Prayers as if it were by the Spirit Extempore Say so and you will disgrace the Doctors Arguments that lay so much on this manner of praying No doubt but it was Forms and Lyturgies that they used yet when Christ condemneth them for praying in the streets to be seen and using long prayer for a pretence to devour Widdows houses Qu. 2. Did Christ speak one word against them as Forms or Lyturgies Did he want Zeal or Knowledge Q. 3. Had they not been good in themselves what cloak could they have made for so great evil Qu. 4. Did Christ or his Apostles ever forbear the Synagogues for the sake of these long Lyturgies Come friends there is no end nor much hope in disputing against fixed prejudice and wrong confident Conceits how clear soever the Light be against it Hold your Judgment and I shall hold mine till God irresistibly reconcile us and if you cannot forgive me I can forgive you but not own the guilt of your mistakes and the Effects I have too much already of my own I had rather you accused me than Conscience for wilful contracting any more The Lord save us from our Enemies but more especially from our Friends and all their Temptations and above all from our selves It amazeth me to hear wise and godly men say It is Popery that is coming in upon us Ergo Let us all forsake the Parish-Churches Quasi die The Enemy will take the City within these few years Ergo Let us all go out of it to day Like him that killed himself for fear of dying some years hence Dementation goeth before Perdition Who knoweth not that the Religion of the Parish-Churches is like to be the National Religion And shall we persuade Protestants to leave them all Passion provoked by some mens badness hath too much conquered Love to Conformists in some mens minds so that they scruple not too uncharitable opinions and words of them This is contrary to Christian Love I doubt not but there are hundreds of godly Conformable Ministers in England On Aug. 24. 1662. Seven thousand or more did Conform that had been kept in in the Parliaments time were all those seven thousand tolerable the year before and ungodly the next year Many Conformists now in London were taken for very good men in 1659. At once the other extream most study to get them out and shall we also call all men on pain of hazarding their Souls to forsake them A very great Church-man above 40 years ago was heard say to his Brethren The Non-conformable Puritans are Snakes We have the Law against them and can tread them down when we will But it is the Conformable Puritan that is the Devil of England to be cast out And shall we second this and that as in opposition to it Grace is lost as far as Christian impartial Love is lost And they that lose Religion themselves which lyeth in Love are like to be no good Keepers of it in the Church If a good Man that we value become a danger to the truth we are angry if his Errour be but contradicted lest his Name be blemished But some dare say the Conformists are all false ready to betray the Church to Papists who nowdo far more to keep them out then we do This is against Iam. 3. 17. If there be any such Conformists high or low I am none of their Advocate God will find them out and judge them But I am confident that it is also Conformists by the advantage of their Possession that will do more to stop their desired success than Nonconformists can do I am sure Bishop Iewel Usher Morton Hall Downame Davenant c. were far from Popery And what man living hath written stronglier against it than Dr. Isaac Barrow against whose Book a Doctor hath newly dasht his Reputation as a bubble against a Rock And what the