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A44228 The harlots vail removed, and her lying refuge swept away by the power of truth, with which she was smitten and wounded being an answer to a book published in the name of about 60 persons of the Independent-Baptized, and mingled peo[ple] in the midst of Babylon, intit'led The church of Christ in Bristol recovering her vail ... : likewise an answer to Thomas Ewins his word, in the close of the said book, in which he acknowledgeth himself no minister ... : also a short rebuke of Ralph Farmer, for lying and dissembling in the case of constant Jessops removing from the parish of Nicholas in the city of Bristol ... : to which are added a few words manifesting the woful fall, and degenerated condition of Richard Fowler ... / by Dennis Hollister. Hollister, Dennis, d. 1676? 1658 (1658) Wing H2507; ESTC R13577 111,205 90

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will dispute your power but are proved an Harlot But I must tell you ye must prove your selves a Church of Christ by other manner of Arguments and Demonstrations of power then your meer saying it i● so or else no child of Light who walks in the Light and by it is guided can believe it whiles your fruits manifest the contrarie And what if ye that the Scripture may be fulfilled do hate reproach and separate me from your Companie and cast out my name as evil for the Son of mans sake who is the light of the World and hath enlightened every man that cometh into the World Is not this a blessing to me and am I not in that day to rejoyce and leap for joy my reward being great in Heaven Your fathers in like manner dealing with the Prophets Luke 6. And truly ye may spare your labour and save your threat'nings for your powerless pretences are to me as light as vanitie and not worth the mentioning And by the powerful arm of the good shepheard whose voice is heard am I eternally separated and gathered from amongst your ignorant and crooked waies never to return to Egypt again nor have fellowship with you in your unfruitful works which by the light are reproved Ye confess it is a sad sentence and spotted garment with which ye are cloathed and say ye durst not proudly boast as do others and presently justifie your selves and boast that ye never observed so much of the evi●s before mentioned in those now together as ye have seen in me and some of those that went away c. To which I say are ye not then w●ful hypocrites to profess your selves a Church of Christ and to walk according to his rule and boast of your faith and obedience and yet acknowledge ye saw pride hipocresie slandering envie back-biting railing lying c. which 〈◊〉 the evils there mentioned to break forth more in us then it did in any of you which truly is too too much and never reprove it nor manifest dislike thereof tell now that we are absolutely by the power of the Lord separated from amongst you and have born witness that your works and waies are evil and now ye tell the word those things which are but your lying accusations else why had ye not put them into your pretended admonitions It is like ye are hard put to it that to vail your selves ye must so commonly betake your selves to those refuges of lies And how can one believe a word ye speak who will seem to speak so solemnly and profess as ye say ingenuously things so absolutely false and untrue that by it ye may be vailed c. Truly ye want a bridle for your tongues and the pure fear of the Lord placed in your hearts which might prevent these distempers windie humours and Lying spirits c. In page twelve ye come to the five things in your admonition a coppy of which 〈◊〉 having by you therein ye insert verbatim and yet in numbring ye forget one and make but four In page twenty four ye say ye doubt not of the faithfulness of your Messengers and in page ten do commend Robert Simpson who was one of them for his integrity and godliness and in page thirty four Robert Simpson saith he did engage himself to write out a coppy of what ye did by them charge as sin upon me which he did truly and deliver to me so then since ye say ye insert it verbatim according to the copy and he saith he writ out and delivered to me a true coppy If what ye published and what he writ out and delivered agree not in every particular then is he or you or all together proved not the Church of Christ the pillar and ground of truth but an Harlot and a company of Hypocritical lyers and false asserters But what ye have published and what he writ out and delivered do not agree in many particulars Therefore are ye no Church of Christ but an Harlot For besides some small difference in the first particular which I shall not mention Robert Simpson saith Secondly your contemning and neglecting some of the Ordinances of Christ and this he saith is a true copie c. and ye say Secondly your contemning of some and neglecting of others of the Ordinances of Jesus Christ and this ye say if ye could be believed is verbatim c. And yet how much it differs let the Reader judge one saith your neglecting of some and contemning of others c. which is much different the one saith of Christ the other adds sayings of Jesus Christ But how comes this to pass that one saith it is a true copy and the other that they insert it verbatim and yet no better agreement The Reader may understand that after I had answered Robert Simpsons copie in my former book and manifested and laid open the deceit and Hypocrisie of this people and reproved them faithfullie and sharplie for pretending to admonish me for that of which themselves are guilty they betake themselves to the refuge of lies to be vailed publishing to the world another thing and say its verbatim And that they sent not to admonish me for neglect of water baptism but for speaking contemptuously against it and that I spake falsely and did them wrong in calling them hypocrites c. for charging me with neglect of water baptism which they say they did not but onely for contemning of it when under the hand of their messenger it appears as before that they sent to admonish me for neglect and and contemt of some of the Ordinances of Christ which said their Messengers were baptism in water and breaking of bread so that it appears evidently to be a plain and studied untruth and feigned thing and not verbatim according to the coppy and yet so impudent and void of the fear of God are they that they dare say they shall leave it to the God of Ordinances to judge c. O horrible falshood and deceit Oh impudent and hard-harted people not onely to speak and publish lies under your own hands one contradicting the other but to entitle the Righteous God to judge c. Thereby thinking to vail themselves and hide their shame but all in vain for the Lord is destroying the vail and the covering cast over all faces c. And ye are seen and comprehended who may read that he that speaketh lies cannot escape and that the lying lips and double tongue cannot stand in the presence of God And how dare ye then contrive and publish such filthie faise things and leave it to God to judge Do ye think he is altogether such a one as your selves c or is the scripture fulfilled upon you and there be none amongst you that understand it c. but are all gone out of the way the throat being an open Sepulchre and their tongues using deceit destruction and miserie being in your waies who the way of ●●ace have never known
to you again the day of the Lord is upon all the. Heathen and as thou hast done it is done unto thee and thy reward is turned upon thy own head Lock back call to mind and remember how over your high places and in your meetings before these whom ye call uncircumcised Prophane Philistines with which your assemblies are filled ye have not spared to blaspheme and to speak evil of that ye understand not some of your mouths being full of cursing and bitterness equal with others of Jacobs enemies with whom ye became as one in the day of his calamitie when he appeared small and descised foaming out your owne shame greatly provoking and enraging the evil spirits in the mindes of your evil hearers against the innocent and harmles who dwelt peaceably in their Tents amongst you moving onely as the Lord moved them for which mount Esau where the prophanenes is the Philistines uncircumcised in heart both Rulers Priests people of all sorts and sects combined to repreach abuse persecute and devour with whom ye have joyned as if your tongues had been your own and no Lord could control them But being a little rebuked by the power and spirit of the living God ye begin to crye out and say who hath his tongue unteid and doth not speak to vindicate the undeceived innocencie c. As if in one hour your glorie becautie and costly attire were laid in the dust and that if it had been a Turk a Heathen or an open enemy that had done this ye could have born it and so tell of sifting up my heel against Christ crucifying him a fresh and putting him to open shame c. All which being your own conditions uttered forth from your fountain of blindness and arrogancie I shall onely return it into your own bosomes from whom it came who cannot look the Lord in the face nor stand in the least of his appearings but with the rest of the untoward generation have set your selves and taken Counsel together against the Lord of life and glory Ye say Little did ye think I would have acted so well like Judas as first to betray you with a kiss calling you friends and then deliver you into the hands of your enemie to scourge you with the tongue c. Reply Did I therefore act like Judas and betray you because I called you friends and in faithfulness told you the truth Know ye not that it was the word of Christ to Judas who was the betraier and never the word of the betraier to the betrayed one And do ye not by this justifie the guilty betrayer and condemn the innocent betrayed one How well may the passers by as ye say clap their hands and wag their heads and say is this a Church that men call an assembly of Zion And are these your gathered Churches about which there hath been so much contending Truly the very heathen amongst you may easily discern you as far from an assembly of Zion as is betwixt Zion and Aegypt And how much more seen and known are ye by the Children of Light who never can believe your self separation to be the way of God nor the Separated Congregations as ye call them the Churches of Christ but the harlot whilest they are only in the outward Separation not separated within the precious from the vile and from that which makes a separation between God and them living in pride and high mindednesse receiving and embracing untruth and rejecting and not closing with truth but give head to lying spirits to which with the rest of the World the heathen who know not God ye are subject Ye seem offended that I stile you the mingled people and call you the Independent Baptized c. To which I say I stiled you as ye were and if ye count it a reproach to be termed so is it not a greater reproach to be so But is it not manifest you can be in covenant with that which is truly a reproach to any people But it is as death to have it published which is the harlots property who sports and pleaseth her self in her evil wates but shames to have it known Ye seem to bewail my condition and labour to perswad the Reader that I spake reproachfully of some blessed institution of Christ which he in his own person practised when he was about thirty years of age and left as a standing ordinance of the new Testament to all generations till his comming again Reply By it I suppose ye mean a commanded or an appointed thing and then I take your meaning to be that your outward washings in rivers of waters which ye call Baptism is a blessed appointment of Christ practised by himself and left a standing Ordinance of his and of the new testament to all generations till his coming again To which I reply Baptism with water was Johns Ministry who came to prepare the way of the Lord and said he shall Baptize you with the holy Ghost I come baptizing with water and how then doth it appear that it is a blessed command of Christ and left by him as a standing ordinance of the New Testament to all Generations it is true Christ was Baptized of John and so it became them to fulfiill all righteousnesse I say to fulfill it and did he by that leave it a standing ordinance of the New Testament to all Generations c. Christ was circumcised and fulfilled the Law and did he by that appoint and ordain Circumcision the Law of Moses to be a standing Ordinance of the New Testament to all generations And Paul who was a Minister of the new Testament made after the death of the Testator when the new Testament was in force said Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel c. But ye do alwaies e●re not knowing the Scripture nor the power of God But friends in the four and twentieth page it is said it was signed in the name and by the consent and appointment of the whole Church by Robert Purnel Thomas Ewine Robert Simpson Richard Moon John Andrews and Bryant Hanson Now if they signed it not by the consent and appointment of the whole company then have they recorded themselves a company of liars who say and publish that which never was But if they did it by the appointment and consent of the whole ●hen are many if not the greatest part of your company recorded to all Generations a company of hypocrites and deceitful workers of rebellious and disobedient Children who knowing the institutions as ye cal it of Christ which ye say is bles'd which he practised and left as a standing Ordinance of the New Testament to all Generations do neglect and disobey it and are out of the practise thereof To which give ear O earth and hear O heaven and be ye astonished what a people professing themselves the Church of Christ boasting of their abilities in giving account of their faith and of walking
and no fear of God is before your eyes And to you may I return your own words that I stand almost amazed to think unto what an height of impudence and wickedness ye are allreadie come and whether may not poor fallen creatures run if God stop them not since ye ar●●●●eady so hardened 〈◊〉 Simson saith Thirdly your extream censoriousnesse and rash judgi●●●…nely of men abroad but also of the Church Mat. 7.1 Rom. 14. 〈◊〉 the Church of Christ an Harlot And ye say Thirdly your extream ●…tiousnesse and rash judging not onely of persons abroad but also of the ●●urch contrary to Mat. 7.1 Rom 14.3 also your calling the Church an Harlot leaving out the word Christ in which the strength of all did lie But why were these words left out being ye say ye inserted them verbatim the Reader may take notice that after I had received the copy from Robert Simson of what ye had charged upon me viz. rash judging and calling the Church of Christ an Harlot I replied the charge was false and from the father of lies for I never called the Church of Christ an Harlot but do own it dearly but the Harlot is an Harlot and not the Church of Christ and so demonstrated by the spirit that acted you that ye were not the Church of Christ but an Harlot from which ye not being able to vindicate your selves betake yourselves again to this refuge of lies and say ye insert the charge verbatim when ye did it not but left out the main thing therein contained without which your charge hath little weight for though I never called the Church of Christ an Harlot yet I have both said and proved that ye who call your selves a Church are an Harlot and not the Church of Christ and do again plainly say and declare it so and might farther prove it were it needful which it is not since my former proof stands good and not controlled by you nor you giving proof that ye are a Church of Christ And I do once more say and affirm that your charge is false and from the father of lies who was a liar from the beginning And your labour might be saved in using arguments to prove that I said ye were an Harlot and not a Church I had so plainly published it But here ye would perswade the Reader I came in with mental reservations and ask is it honestie or any thing but deceit and hypocrisie because I said I did not call the Church of Christ an harlot but the people in Bristol c. To which I say were ye not quite blind and full of deceit and subtiltie ye might easilie see and know that I spake plainly and truly without your mentals and other carnal stuff when I said and manifested that I dearly owned the Church of Christ which were all living stones c. and did clearly bear testimony against you that ye were not so but an Harlot and herein I appear both just and honest towards the Church of Christ and towards the Harlot in hearing testimony to the former and against the latter in which no deceit nor subtilty appears but just dealing and all your equivocations and mental reservations as ye call them together with your shamelesse unchristian-like practises in which ye appear one with the black spirit of Ralph Farmer is denied together with all lies and the father thereof but the Church of Christ is lovely c. Robert Simpson saith Fourthly your asserting in the Church principles contrary to Truth as first That faith is an eternal thing Secondly That Christ and saith is all one Thirdly That Christ Jesus is not the object of faith And ye say Fourthly Your asserting in the Churches doctrines contrary to truth as first that we did not know what faith was and that faith was an eternal thing Secondly That Christ and Faith is all one Thirdly That Christ is not the object of faith Fourthly Your speaking reproachfully of the blessed scripture affirming they were blind and a pla●●● to souls and further saying that they were not the word of God nor the rule of life and this ye say is verbatim and therefore must be examined And first I find that the copy saith principles contrary to truth and ye say doctrines contrary to truth and that 's not verbatim But I take notice that I having given true answers to each particular aforesaid contained in the copie and published it in The skirts of the Whore c. which stands in sound and wholsome words unanswered by you by which your shame appears of which being sensible ye labour to recover your vail to hide your falshood and having given heed to lying spirits ye again betake your selves to your wonted refuge and say having the copie by you ye publish it verbatim And say First That we did not know what faith was every word of which is forged and feigned and not in the copie delivered to me and therefore well might ye say whether may not a poor fallen people run if God stop them not And it is no wonder ye began your book pleading for the kingdom of the Devil saying that as in the natural body there may be many infirmities so the mystical body by which its like ye mean your selves who are not a spiritual bodie as the Church of Christ is may be subject to distempers and among many other things make mention of windy humors of pride and high mindedness and giving heed to lying spirits c. It s like ye had some sence what spirit ruled you to which ye intended to give heed and with what filth and falshood ye intended to fill your book and the lying refuge to which ye intended to betake your selves before ye drew such false conclusions in the beginning thereof But this is not all in the copie delivered to me in this fourth branch were inserted but three particulars which are before mentioned to which ye adde a fourth viz. your sp●aking reproachfully of the blessed scriptures affirming they were blind and a plague to souls and farther saying they were not the word of God and ru'e of life and this ye say is verbatim notwithstanding that which here ye make as a fourth particular in the fourth general is in the copie a fifth general including three Particulars and so do your selves afterwards reckon it notwithstanding in the wisdom of God ye are lest to ensnare your selves and manifest it to all the world saying it is verbatim when ye have left one of your five things mentioned but the line next before It s like the pangs of a traveling woman are upon you who have so long cryed peace and safety to your selves that the sword of the Lord is upon you and your eyes utterly darkened that ye cannot see But the blind have so long led the blind that ye are all fallen into the ditch and under pretence of recovering a veil have manifested your shame and published things which ye endevoured to perswade the
general and yet ye say it s verbatim But in this also not onely your falshood but also your confusion is so fully manifested that I need say no more but leave it to the Reader to judge But ye say It is for speaking against the Scriptures affirming they were blind and a plague to souls and that they are not the Word of God nor rule of life and this ye would have understood to be verbatim though like the rest it will easily appear to be a parcel of falshood hypocrisie and deceit for besides your own confusions before mentioned in the Coppy delivered to me by Robert Simpson which he saith is true and ye 〈◊〉 testimony he is faithful it is thus Your speaking reproachfully of the pretious Scriptures of truth as first affirming that it was a blind to souls and secondly one of the greatest plagues of the Land and thirdly affirming farther that it is not the Word of God nor rule of life Now let the Reader whose eye is opened judge how these agree The person sent to admonish at the same time or thereahouts gives it under his hand that what he writ out and delivered to me was a true Coppy of what he received And the whole company after they received an answer thereunto deviseth and publisheth another and say it is verbatim though it much differs from the former The latter saith the charge there mentioned was verbatim in these words Speaking reproachfully of the blessed Scriptures affirming they were blind and a plague to souls c. the former in these words Speaking reproachfully of the precious Scripture of truth as first affirming that it was a blind to souls and aly one of the greatest plagues of the land The one puts both together The Scripture is blind and a plague the other divides them into two particulars and saith first a blind to souls and 2ly one of the greatest plagues of the Land the one that the Scriptures were blind the other that it is a blind the one that they were blind and a plague to souls and never mentions the Land The other that it is first a blind to souls and 2ly a plague yea one of the greatest plagues of the Land and mentions not souls The one saith The pretious Scriptures of truth The other the blessed Scriptures and mentions not the words of truth And yet if any man is given over to believe lies ye will perswade him all this is true and verbatim that is word for word according to the copy And that notwithstanding this lying spirit which is found in your mouths to which ye give heed ye are a Church of Christ or a mystical body a word of deceit from the bottomlesse pit which may be subject to this spirit as it plainly appears to all beholders ye are by what your selves have published And truly the day hath manifested you very much and ye cannot be hid but by the light your deeds of darknesse are and will be reproved and your pretended admonition farther manifested to be but studied accusations and from your father the devil who was a liar from the beginning and abode not in the truth Now as that which ye call your admonition and say ye did insert verbatim as a bundle of lies and confusion as hath been manifested so is that which ye call your proof for in page 13. ye say because I said those things that is to say your charge are studied accusations and from the father of lies c. ye shall therefore prove every tittle to be true And in page 18. ye say ye have proved every tittle to be true and clear and in page 26. your 3 Messengers who boast that they received their Commission from God to this work say that the things that they charged me withall are all true in every sillable of it as doth appear by the foregoing answer of the whole Church Now then if ye have not proved every tittle of your charge to be true and if it do not appear by your foregoing answer that every sillable of that with which your Messengers charged me is true then are ye proved both those that did send and those that were sent no Church of Christ but a company of lyars and false asserters But ye have not proved every title and every sillable thereof to be true and therefore are ye no Church of Christ but a company of lyars for first ye charged me for leaving the Church and now ye say that I have left the Church is true but no proof thereof have ye given neither is it true which ye say for the Church I have not left but to witness the Church I have left the harlot and that I have absolutely forsaken left and renounced fellowship with you in all your idolatrous heathenish wayes and worships which stand in the will and time of man and not in the will and power of God and by the mighty arm and power of the Lord am I separated from amongst you never again to have fellowship nor communion with you in those unfruitful works of darkness which by the light are reproved is granted else could I never know nor witness the Church of Christ which is in God the father But that ye are the Church of Christ is denyed and was denyed and by your fruits and what lodged in you were ye proved an harlot a synagogue of Satan c. which stands vvholly unansvvered by you And therefore it is not true but a lie to say I left the Church when I was separated from the Harlot that I might witness the Church But suppose it had been true that I had left the Church by vvhat have ye proved it Why onely your selves say it is so but that is no proof and yet this is more than tittles and syllables it is vvhole sentences ye a general charge not proved except vvhat the harlot speaks to save her head vvhen to judgement she is brought is to be believed and admitted as a proof But ye go on and say that my so doing hath drawn away some grieved others and opened the mouehs of many to speak evil of the wayes of Christ which is clear and plain and not a studied accusation but a real thing which hath been grief and sadness to the Church To which I reply if the Harlot or Synagogue of Satan might be believed in her own case when she speaks not truth then what ye say were of some value But from the Church have I drawn none nor been a grief nor sadness that I know to her with whom in some measure I have unity Neither do I know of any whose mouths I have justly opened to speak evil of the wayes of Christ which are pure and spiritual So that the whorish and adulterous harlot cannot see it who is grieved and sadned at my departure whose judgement is come and her torments from the living God are pouring and therefore hath she opened her mouth very wide and from her unclean fountain
probability of truth can be in vvhat they say I affirmed viz. That the Scriptures of truth were one of the greatest blindes and plagues to mens soules this day in England as if truth could be a blinde and a plague to soules vvhen it is a lying spirit is so to yours And notvvithstanding I never made a trade of the Scriptures nor preach't for hire nor divined for money as others do nor ever coveted any mans gold or silver or apparel amongst you nor accepted thereof vvhen by some I was earnestly prest thereunto but on the contrary have administred something largely of these things amongst you Yet from the Scriptures did I daily discourse as opportunity I had and by it have convinced many amongst you of your pride formality and other evils so that once ye were very much awakened and brought to some sense of your condition after ye had been too much taken with the doctrine of some called Notionists which it may be is the same ye now call Ranters whose principles and doctrines by the Scriptures I did withstand and oppose and with much labour and sore wrestlings was I instrumental to deliver you out of their mouths to whom many of you were become a prey I say much awakened ye were and the spirit which convinceth of sin began to work until another Ministry of unrighteousness came which for the wages of iniquity taught you to erre and when ye were convinced of sin and troubled within and saw your filth and wickedness appear by which your peace was broken and your consciences awakened and true judgement took hold on the transgressor prest you to believe lyes and shut out that which troubled and said it was temptations of the Devil and that your sin was done away and that God saw it not that it was all pardoned daubing with untempered morter crying peace peace to that to which no peace is spoken from God by which your bonds were made strong and the hands of evil doers strengthened that they turned not nor repented which wicked doctrine of the Devil by the Scripture I opposed and withstood perswading you to the last not to build on the sand but come down to the rock and told you your peace was but security which the Devil 's goods may attain and that all your assurance in which ye gloried was but vain confidence which in the time of tryal would deceive you and so far did I dispute it with you dailie by the Scripture that Thomas Ewins your publique Preacher told me I dasht his comforts and weakened his hands so that he was not able to preach but when into the Pulpit he was to go fear and trembling sometimes took hold upon him so that if necessity had not been upon him to speak the people being assembled he should not have spoken a word and told me of retiring to his former Calling and leaving the City with much more Others who loved to have smooth things spoken that they might be at ease in Zion who put far away the evil day complained as he said that all the comforts and joy they received and gathered from his Ministry all the day was dasht and broken by me in the evening Others complaining at last confest I led you safely though not comfortably and all was because the Devils Kingdom was disturbed and his goods not suffered to be at peace and in your consciences do you know that by the Scriptures I demonstrated what I said to which I was as true as any amongst you whatsoever And if in this ye shall say I boast remember it s you that have compelled me and if ye have a mind to gain-say or contradict any particular of it do it honestly plainly and down-rightly not coverty and deceitfullie as ye have done before that when I come to reply I may have something like as from men to speak unto and not as from a company of foolish tost children For although to this was I was at first averse yet by the power and presence of the living God shall I be free and able to quench your thorns scatter your deceit and remove your veil and discover the Harlots skirts But friends suppose all ye say were granted and that I had indeed whilst I was amongst you entertained and asserted many principles contrary to truth and said that the Scriptures of truth were a blinde to souls and one of the greatest plagues of the land which I have and utterly do deny And suppose it were granted an error and a very great sin so to say and affirm yet was not all this done in your meeting whilst I was one and amongst you and not then reproved nor gain sayed And was it not then time for all that feared the Lord and loved the truth to depart out of such an Assembly in which such things are permitted to be entertained and published without rebuke Was there any safety in being one with such an Harlot though she call her self a Church And are not these things spots whilst the true Church of Christ which is his glorious body is without spot or wrinckle Surely little cause have any who know the truth and love and believe in the light to be grieved or sad'ned that any be drawn from such an Assembly and happy for me was the day in which the light manifested you and from amongst you separated me to another people where no such principles are entertained nor permitted to be vented And for mine own part I do freely declare to all the world that since by the power of the good shepherd I was gathered from amongst you I am fan from entertaining or uttering any such things but do dearly own the Scriptures of truth as given by inspiration and see them of great use and service And if I received and entertained such principles contrary to truth amongst you with you I also left them to whom the Scripture is of little use more then to talk of and trade with for an advantage and by wresting and corrupting the same make use of it as a veil to cover your deceipt and filthiness but the life thereof do not witness But I have not yet done with your testimony in pag. 13. where ye say ye insert your admonition verbatim Ye charge me with asserting in the Church doctrines contrary to truth one of which is that the Scriptures are not the Word of God and every tittle of this ye say ye have proved notwithstanding ye have not proved any thing of it to be true but only ask if I did not at a meeting at the Red-lodge in the Garden-house before near twenty people say so one of you being by c. Truly the Harlots fore-head is very hard if at this she do not blush What! Lay a general charge and say ye will prove and have proved every tittle and yet can say nothing but ask me if it were not so And in pag 12. 13. ye lay this thing to be asserted in the Church