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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	particular_a	pillar_n	1,653	5	10.8048	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13773	Positions lately held by the L. Du Perron, Bishop of Eureux, against the sufficiency and perfection of the scriptures maintaning the necessitie and authoritie of vnwritten traditions. Verie learnedly answered and confuted by D. Daniell Tillenus, Professor of Diuinitie in the Vniuersitie of Sedan. VVith a defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy scriptures by the same author. Faithfully translated.	Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633.; Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618. Discours sur l'autorité.; Tilenus, Daniel, 1563-1633. Defence of the sufficiency and perfection of the holy scripture. aut	1606 (1606)	STC 24071; ESTC S101997	143,995	256

the pillar and ground of truth not for the reason Du Perron alleadgeth because euery one resting on the iudgment of it can not be deceiued in faith nor hazard his Saluation he might say more briefly and more popularly In beleeuing in the faith of his Curate But for as much as the word of God contayned in the holy Scripture is set forth in the true Church as in old time the lawes were fastned to pillars that they might not be troden vnder feete and that they might be exposed to the view of euery man the Church which is the Pallace of our lord Iesus Christ is as Salamon was all of pillars euery particular Orthodoxall or right-beleuing Church is a pillar of that Palace whereon hangeth the table contayning the diuine trueth But as much resemblance is betweene this palace of our spirituall Salomon and the Popes on his Vatican as is betweene the crowne of Thornes and his triple Crowne of Gold betweene the Bible and his decretalls Now let the Bishop of Eureux tell me how these two propositions doe agree the church neuer erreth and that of the Schoolmen and Canonists In the day when our Lord suffered Faith remained onely in the virgin Marie which proposition ●ean de la ●urbruslèe Iohn Turbrusley maintayneth to be so necessarie that to hold the contrary is to goe against the faith of the vniuersall Church where was then this Church that cannot erre then I say when all the Apostles were aliue whom Christ our Lord reproacheth of incredulitie could the person onely of the blessed virgine make the Church ●ark 16.14 ●●llar de Ec●●es mil. l. 3. ●7 Bellarmine denieth it because saith hee The Church is the people and kingdome of God Now haue wee hitherto shewed the sufficiencie and perfection of the scripture in regard of the instances proposed by the Bishoppe of Eureux as things absolutely necessarie As for the others that he afterwards alleadgeth it is to bee noted First that they concerne rather historie than doctrine whereof is question and which hee of purpose confoundeth with historie for to bleaze the eies of the simple For hee knoweth verie well that wee willingly confesse that there is historicall Traditions and himselfe confesseth that the ordinance of these thing is not absolutely vnexcusable ●ol 80 That is to say it is not necessarie for all to knowe them Secondly it is to bee remembred that heere againe as is aboue saide he confoundeth with like malice these two tearmes truth and Authority dissembling that euery trueth is not of like Authority Otherwise it would follow that al prophane histories truly written are as authenticall and canonicall as the histories of the Bible And therefore that which the Apostles alleadged without the Scripture is most true but obtayned not Canonicall authority till after it was written by them and as touching that from which they draw arguments I answere that they doe it because it was agreed of the trueth of those particulars whēce they draw them as at this day we reason oftentimes by things which not onely the Fathers but also prophane and heathen authors haue left in writing when it is agreed that they containe trueth yet can not any inferre from thence that they haue equall authority to the word of God Thirdly I say that among the instances he produceth there be some false and inuented and of this number is all the first namely the Institution of Exorcists that no text of the new Testament sheweth that it was an order instituted of God vnder the old Testament yea though it were graunted him that there were Exorcists at the time that Iesus Christ came into the world for our Sauiour Christs wordes conteine nothing else but a confutation of the opinion of the Pharises not a declaration of his owne touching Exorcists whether they were ordayned of God or of thēselues as were those of whome S. Luke maketh mētion If the B. of Eureux grāteth not that both of thē were of the same order Act 19 to what purpose doth he alleagde Caluin for to make me confesse it And if he graunt that they were how can he deny but that the one were deceiuers as well as the others Whence will he shew that the sonns of Sceua were rather of the order of the ancient pretended Exorcists than of the Apes that would counterfeit the miracles of the Apostles Let vs se the Logicke of our Carneades The sonnes of Sceua after the death of Christ were not true Exorcists Ergo before Christs death there was an order of the true Exorcists grounded on diuine right See how from a negation he draweth an affirmation But if we receiue the exposition of Saint Chrysostome which he should accept of as a subsidiary Tradition This Instance taken from the order of Exorcists shall be yet more ridiculous for he presupposeth as a thing confessed of all that our Sauiour Christ speaking of Exorcists meaneth onely his Apostles and disciples Fol. 81. which saith he had already driuen out Diuells by the power they had receiued of their Maister the Pharises not hauing blamed them for it For their malice was but to the person not to the thing Therefore that he might shew that what they said or thought against him proceeded but of meere enuie he told them of the Apostles Now it is for our Bishoppe to conclude that the Apostles were already in the world in quality of ordinary Exorcists when Christ came from whome consequently they receiued not extraordinarily this power to cast out vncleane Spirits He saith the hand of the Synagogue vvas become vvithered and impotent in vvorking miracles ●ol 85. after our Sauiour Christs death and that for this cause the sonns of Sceua had no successe But wherefore then had that Eleazer of whome Iosephus speaketh such good successe who long after Christs death in the presence of Vespasian his childrē all the Romane Army ●●seph An●●g lib. 8. c. 2. dispossessed so sufficiently one that had a Diuell the roote to which Iosephus attributeth this vertue and which he saith was taught by Salomon was it become withered as well as the hand of the Synagogue of purpose that it might budd againe like Aarons rodd in the hands of that infidell did the name Tetragrammaton by which Epiphanius saith 〈◊〉 30. one Ioseph not beleeuing yet in Christ cast out a diuell loose then it vertue or did the sons of Sceua eclipse some letter of it Now it is manifest by this place of Iosephus and by that which is written in another place what was the foundation and institution of this order of Exorcists ●oh de bel 〈◊〉 l. 7. c. 25 among the Iewes namely Magicke and enchantments which our Bishop would make vs receiue for the pure word of God secretly reuealed to the Patriarches and Prophets I said that it is not found that they which in the beginning of the Christian Church had the gift of casting out diuels vsed certaine

father that he will send him I will pray saith he vnto the Father and he shall send you another cōforter And in the same place where he saith he will send him he preuenteth say they the opinion might be conceyued of his proceeding from him in that he sayth he wil send frō the Father the spirit of truth which proceeds frō the father c To which they further adde that there is a great difference betweene the tēporal sending of the holy ghost at our Lords request on the Apostles and the eternall proceeding of the said Spirit which is the poynt in question D. Tillenus his answere The proceeding of the Holy-Ghost which is the thirde poynte which he maynteineth to haue no ground in scripture hath his proofe in the scripture by the schoolmen themselues against the Greeks who receiued this article without any greate difficulty in the Councell of Florence in which was present Iohn Paleologus Emperour of Constantinople but they receiued but fainedly and by constraynte of theire Emperour who stood in neede of the Westerne Churches the Articles of the Popes Supremacy of Trāsubstantiation of Purgatory and other like which are without and against the scripture Yet ther were some Bishops there that would neuer consent vnto them but afterwards caused all to be reuoked imputing the losse of the Easte Empire which hapned shortly after this councell to that vnluckie vnion that there was made with the Pope Now as the principall questions touching the holy ghost of his nature and of his office haue alwayes been determined by the scripture against the Arriās Eunomians Macedonians so also may therein be shewed his proceeding from the father and from the Sonne The place in saint Paule cannot be shifted of by his distinction of possession and proceeding 〈◊〉 8.9 〈◊〉 .6 as if he spake onely of the gifte possession of the spirit that Iesus Christ receued according to his humāity For the same spirit is there called both the spirit of Christ the spirit of him that raysed vp Christ And when saint Peter saieth that it was the spirit of christ by which the Prophets haue prophecied 〈◊〉 1.11 he quite cutteth of the bishops answere For seeing that the prophets haue prophesied before the incarnatiō of christ they cannot haue prophesied by the spirit in as much as it was giuen to the humanity of christ and on the other side the Scripture witnesseth in infinite places that this spirit of the Prophets was the spirit of God the father which sheweth as cleerely that the holy ghost proceedeth from the father the sonne as the consubstātiality of the son with the Father by conferēce of the places in the Prophets that speak of Iehoua with the places in the Euangelists and Apostles which appropriate them vnto Christ The exāple of Heliseus that receiued the Spirit of Helias is as little to purpose as the former distinctiō Iohn 15 Iesus Christ saith that it is he that well send this spirit shewing his diuine power Helias answereth to Helizeus when hee asked him double portion of his spirit Thou askest a hard thing meaning that it is not giuen by the power of man Christ saith not that it is an hard thing for him to send the Comforter contrariwise he saith all that his father hath is his also He gaue it indeed and in effecte to the Apostles breathing on them and saying Receaue the Holy ghost Iohn 20 And whereas du Perron sayth that this may bee expounded of the possession domination of the creatures ouer which the Father hath giuen him all power As whē the father of the prodigal child saith to his eldest son the like words All that is mine is thine J answer as aboue is alredy sayd that the spirit is in the son as in the Father And as is shewed that the Spirit proceedeth from the father by the places which say That the Father sēdeth him frō the Father so also may be shewd his proceeding frō the sō by the places Gal 4.6 Iohn 5.1 god sēdeth the spirit of his sō the sō doth al things that the Father doth c. Jt is obiected that it is said That the Spirit proceedeth frō the father That Christ sayth he wil pray the father to sēd him to which J answer that Christ in those places speketh as Mediator in which he is lesse that the father so hee sayth that the father is greater than hee And yet he saith the father wil send him in his name Iohn 14 Iohn 15 which coūteruayleth that other saying that he will send him from the father As for the difference betwixt the temporall mission of the holy Ghost and his eternall proceeding J say that this eternall proceeding is nothing else but the communication of the Diuine essēce by which the third person of the Trinity receiues all the same Essence from the Father and from the sonne as being the spirit of them both And seeing that the Greekes beleeue with vs that the holy Ghost is God that he is equall to the father and to the Sonne against the Arrians and Macedonians and that he is a distinct person from the father and from the sonne againste the Sabellians we are not to hould them for heretickes in this poynt though they had certaine particulare manners of speaking for as much as heresy is not in the words but in the sense as Saint Hierome saith Many among the auncient fathers are not held for hereticks though they speake often improperly of the misteryes of the trinity of which number is S. Hillary 2 de Tri●c who in many places putteth three substances in God against the sownd maner of speaking whereof hee excuseth himselfe saying that these things surpasse al signification of wordes all intention of sence all conceptiō of sence all conception of vnderstanding But the Church of Rome is rightly holden for heretical which in many things doth attribute vnto it self the office of the holy ghost As whē it sayth that one cānot be assured of the truth and diuinity of the Scripture but onely by the testimony that that Church giueth of it The Bishop of Eureux The fourth poynte which we haue propounded is the translation of the Saboath to Sunday Euery one knoweth how rigorous the commandement of the Sabaoth was in the old law and how the gretest both thretnings promises of god were made to those that violated or obserued his Sabbaths And notwithstanding this commandement of God that god had vouchsafed to write with his own hand in the 10 precepts of the decalogue to sequester it as by speciall priuiledge frō all precepts of the ceremoniall law for to insert it in the Epitome of the morall law Yet the church hath changed it with out any written ordinance both as touching the end the forme ●●d the matter First as concerning the end Saturday was ordayned to commemorate the Creation of the world gods rest after

of the new nor yet of these two Epistles which he had written to him of purpose for to instruct him how he should walke in the house of God which is the Church of the liuing God 1. T●m 3 the pillar and foundation of truth Whereas I said that the Romish Church causeth an infinite number of thinges to be obserued as the lawes of God which we know by their owne histories to haue been instituted many ages after the Apostles he answereth two things 1 That the practise of certaine poynts is found haue beene in the Church a long time before them which we imagine to be the inuentors of it wherof he coteth afterwards seuen examples namely Prayer for the dead Lent Single life Confirmation the Mixture of water and wine Consecrations of Altars and the Oblation or Sacrifice of the Masse 2 That they confound not vnder the name of Apostolike Traditions all the Customes obserued in the Church but that they distinguish betweene the vniuersall and the particular And that euen among the vniuersall some onely are Apostolike to wit such as haue alwayes since the Apostles times beene vsed in the Church but the other that haue beene ordained in latter ages are Ecclesiasticall But the question is not howe they of the Romish Church distinstuish their Traditions But by what authoritie and power they cause men obserue as the lawes of God and as necessarie to saluation things that were not instituted by Christ nor his Apostles For those which they call Ecclesiasticall and which by their owne confession came not in vse nor yet into knowledge till many ages after the death of the Apostles are not lesse but much more rigorously commanded then those which they call Apostolicall It shall suffice to verifie and manifest this by one example It is generally knowne that the most solemne and most religious deuotion at this day in the Romish Church is that which they call Gods feast or Corpus Christi day to the obseruation wherof Pope Vrban the 4. attributeth remission of sins ●●lla ●uck which is the knowledge of saluation according to the Gospel And the number of pardons granted onely to the beholders of the same is almost infinite And whether wee consider the seueritie of Prelates in commanding it and the magnificence in celebrating it or the deuotion of the people in preparing themselues thereunto and the efficacie they imagine of it We shall find that it is a thing that they pretend to be much more necessarie and more diuine than to say Requiescant in pace than to abstain from flesh and egges in Lent or any other points of the pretended Apostolike Tradition In the meane while our Bishop himselfe though he denie all cannot denie that this deuotion was instituted neer 12. hūdred years after the death of the Apostles if he denie it Bellarmine wil reproue him ●acr Euch. 〈◊〉 30. who confesseth that Pope Vrban 4. is the first authour of it And no writer of the Romish Church denieth it though they agree not all touching the motiue of this institution For some wil haue that the cause of it was a certaine miracle happened in Italie of a Wafer cake that bled as a certaine Priest doubting of Transubstantiation helde it in his handes Others attribute it to a woman of the country of Liege whom the said Pope had familiarly knowne before his Popedome and who hauing giuē the Pope to vnderstande a Vision or Reuelation that she had touching the institutiō of this Feast he streight ordayned it and celebrated it first at Rome And afterwards Clement the fift made a most rigorous law concerning it confirmed euen by the Councill of Vienna Hereupon I demaund our Bishop to what vse is his distinction that he maketh betweene Apostolike and Ecclesiasticke Traditions seeing that these latter are commaunded for as much or more necessarie meritorious and diuine as the former Againe I demaund to what purpose hee taketh so much paines for to shewe that certaine things are verie auncient seeing there bee newer and latter things which haue more authoritie necessitie and efficacie than the olde And seeing it is sufficient that some Pope hath ordained a thing without enquiring of the antiquitie or noueltie of the same For the Pope now a daies attributeth as much yea much more power and authoritie to himselfe than they did that were seauen or eight hundred yeares agoe and requireth no lesse but much more obedience in that which at this day he commaundeth than in that which his predecessours commaunded a thousand yeares ago For as before the God of heauen a thousand yeares are as one day so before this God on earth one day is as a thousand years when there is question to make himself be obeyed Yea the time hath been when Popes thought they could not well establish their owne lawes vnlesse they did abolish the lawes of their predecessors that is vnlesse they displanted Antiquitie to plant in noueltie Moreouer if euerie thing that concerneth saluation as those doe that bring remission of sinnes ought to bee grounded on the worde of God either written or vnwritten as he graunteth and presupposeth throughout his Booke By what conscience could the Popes institute this newe meanes of saluation with manie other in which number are our Bishops graines If the worde of God be onelie found either in the Canonicall Scripture or in the pretended Apostolike Tradition conteyned in the writings of the ancient fathers doth it not follow that that which is found in neither of both these two Registers is by his owne confession the worde and inuention of man And therefore a vaine thing and displeasing to God by Iesus Christ his owne sentence Math. 15. But let vs heare Bellarmine on this poynt De Verb. ● l. 4. c. 9. Nothing is of the faith but onely that which God hath reuealed by the Apostles or by the Prophets or that which is euidently deduced from it For the Church is no more gouerned by newe Reuelations but persisteth in them which those men that haue beene Ministers of the word haue giuen by Tradition For therefore it is said Ephe. 2. Builded vpon the fo●ndation of the Prophets and Apostles Wherefore all the thinges which the Church holdeth to be matters of faith haue been giuen by the Apostles and Prophets eyther by writing or by word of mouth After he addeth When the whole Church obserueth something that none could institute but onely God and which notwithstāding is foūd no where writtē We must say it was giuen by the Traditiō of Iesus Christ himself and of his Apostles The reason is for that the vniuersall Church cannot erre not onely in that which it beleeueth but as little in that which it dooth and principally in CEREMONIE or Diuine worship Let vs conclude then by the confession of this great Rabbi who acknowledged that this ceremonie of Corpus Christi day was instituted well neere 1200. yeres after the Apostles by Pope Vrbane 4.

the first Author thereof vnlesse the Bishop of Eureux being a Courtier had rather giue the glorie of it to a Lady to that Nunne of Leige who had first this reuelation that the Church that the pretended head of the church who let himselfe be gouerned by a new reuelation or by an olde Nunne hath erred and caused all them to erre that haue receiued of him this new Ceremonie this new Diuine worship this new meanes yea ground of Saluation and of blessednes 〈◊〉 1.2 which consisteth in the remission of sinnes Or else that the Church afore that time that had doone nothing of it beleeued nothing nor heard of it for the space of twelue hundred yeares after Christ hath erred as well in that which it did as in that which it beleeued at least wise touching this point of the Eucharist which it honoured not after the manner set downe in the third booke of the ceremonies of the Romish Church of which māner he that will confer it with the ceremonies sometimes obserued by the heathen in honour of Isis of the Syrian Goddesse of Diana of the Persians fire c. shall finde out the true originall of it and an antiquitie more auncient than any Apostolke Tradition is These are the ragges wherwith our Gaboanites doe ordinarily decke their Antiquitie which their owne writers freely confesse witnesse Cardinall Baronius who saith That it was to good purpose ordained that the ceremonies or seruices which belonged to the Pagan superstition Annal. tom 2. ad● chr 200. shold be sanctified by the worship of the true God for to bee employed in the worship of the true 〈◊〉 Religion Now the Bishop of Eureux insteed of continuing his reply to my answere touching the foure pointes that we holde with them of the Romish Church which are the truth of the Baptisme of little Children that of the Baptisme of Heretickes the proceeding of the holye Ghost from the Father from the Sonne and the translation of the feast of the Sabaoth day to Sunday which Articles hee had alleadged as not hauing anye ground in Scripture instead I say of answering to my reasons by which I shewed the contrarie hee goeth no further and after hee had consumed wel nigh foure yeares in seeking replyes to the three or foure first leaues of my booke hee leaueth the matter in question and taketh another course finding it an easier worke to cause to bee written out by one of his Acolythes or Parasites many places of the Fathers all alreadie gathered and aranged in Bellarmine Baronius and others vppon the seauen pointes aboue quoted which it pleased him to choose then to seeke in his owne braine new cauilations that hee might ridde himselfe of so many sound proofes drawne foorth of the Scripture which shewe the perfection and sufficiency of the same in that which is necessarie for vs to beleeue touching these foure pointes alleadged by him rather for to prooue his own imperfection and vnsufficiencie then that of the Scripture And although it were no more difficult for me then for him to choose out of the same fathers to oppose as long a list of places wholy incompatible and vnreconcileable with them he produceth as aboue I haue done on like occasions and to shewe besides that the di●simili●tude that there is between some things which particular persons in the time of the aunciēt church obserued in all liberty as indifferent and with the Church of Rome commaūdeth exacteth at this day with an extream cruelty Between those things that the one did by forme of remēbrance acknowledgement with the other doth for merit and for works of supererogation I could shew the B. of Eureux his mallice in disguising the intention of the Fathers in mixing and confounding their Historicall recitalles with their Doctrines Customes with Lawes vndiscreete deuotions and manifest superstitions whereof they complained with diuine institutions The sufferance and conuenience of the Church with the approbation of the same Though it were I say easie for me to shewe all these thinges Notwithstanding seeing it were out of the center of my subiect I will not imitate that my selfe which I blame in my aduersarie who as well heere as else where sheweth that hee hath no other drift nor recourse then to obscure the principall by a thicke darke cloud of incidents in the gathering whereof he very well practiseth that which Iraeneus saith of the Gnostickes of his time 〈◊〉 c. 2. who taking the places of Scripture heere and there and wresting them for to giue colour to their blasphemies his holy Father compareth them to those that after they had vndone and dissolued the figure of a King made all of Precious Stones would make of the same Stones the figure of a Dogge or a Fox for to make men beleeue that it was the same figure of the King made by the first workeman Or to those who making Centons or mingle mangle of many matters culled out of Homers verses vppon a Subject that the Poet neuer dreamed of would perswade the jgnorant that Homer himselfe treated of that Subiect Whereas he saith that the instances whereupon wee contended the first day wee saw each other were the same whereof he frameth these seauen common places wherwith he filleth his Book I answer that it is false for of all the pointes that hee treateh there was spoken onely of Prayer for the dead and that by occasion of the Lady who had newly lost her husband was fully disposed to receiue his impressions Whereupon as I said after some other reasons that this custome of praying for the dead had neither example nor commaundement nor promise in Scripture we were straightwaies carried on general different of the sufficiencie or vnsufficiencie of the scripture as himself confesseth The Instance whereupon wee moste contended the first and second day of our conference was the Popes supremacie which I maintained to bee recent and new and by no meanes could bee deriued from the Apostles nor prooued by the Fathers in the forme and manner as at this day we see it during which disputation it hapned that the Bishoppe of Eureux for to shew the contrary alleadged S. Gregorie who saith Epist ● Epist 6 I knowe not what Bishoppe is not subiect to the Apostolicall seate Thereupon I required him to proceed with that which followed for he had the book open before him read therin this sentēce so well that not being able to excuse himselfe from finishing out the place which he would haue cut off he was cōstrained to ad these words which immediately follow Whē there is no fault that requireth it to wit this subiectiō to the censures all Bishops are equall according to the reason of humilitie As I noted to the standers by this ingenious Eclypse He replyed that there was no fraud seeing that none of that made against him I answered that thereby it would follow that hee who was a Bishop was equal to

neuer tooke the liberty to ordaine any thing of his owne head not so much as in policie or ciuil gouernement He answereth that this is false obiecting vnto me the historie of Iethro will say that Moses practised the counsell that Iethro gaue him touching the establishmēt of Iudges ouer the people of Israell without any approbation from God which is one of the boldest falshoodes can bee made and such as hee is wont falsly to obiect vnto others For to conuince it do but see the text where the common latine translation saith If thou doe this thing thou shalt fulfil the commaundement of God Exod. 18 23 and the Hebrew If thou dost this thing and if God so commaund thee thou maist bee able to endure Now we grant that if we had alwaies such persons as the Apostles were or as Moses and the Prophets vnder the Lawe were for to instruct vs in euery point and not such as may leade millions of soules together into hell Dist 4● si Papa as the Pope doth and may doe by vertue of his owne lawes We should not haue so much occasion to keepe our selues so strictly tyed to the Scripture though notwithstanding Act. 17 the first Christians examined the preaching of the Apostles by the Scripture of the old Testament by which themselues also prooued it though they had an immediate calling an infallible certainty and an incomparable authority but these gifts of God beeing but for a time for the beginnings and foundation of the Christian Church and we being aduertised by the Holy Ghost of the comming of wolues of false Prophets that shal rise vp in the middest of the Church We conclude that it is most necessary to keepe vs to their writings and that it is more dangerous to say Act. 20. ● 30. 1 Pet. 2. that they haue not written whatsoeuer is necessarie for vs than to say that they haue not taught all by word of mouth to euery particular Church for returning often to visite them that which they had not said at one time they might adde and supply it at another for which there would be no more any remedie after their death if wee found not in their writings that which is necessarie for our saluation And therefore though the points aboue prooued by Moses were not conteined in his writings yea though Moses had written nothing at all yet could not that any thing at all helpe the Bishop of Eureux his cause vnlesse hee shew first that the traditions of the Romish Church are naturally engrauen in the hearts of men as the immortalitie of the soule And secōdly that in al the Christian Church spread throughout all the nations of the world god had established the same form touching the oeconomie and gouernment and the dispensation of his mysteries as was established among this people only conducted by Moses afterwards taught by the Prophets extraordinarily raised vp immediately sent during the ordinary ministery of the Leuitical Priesthood And therfore since that the curate of euery particular Church that acknowledgeth the Pope 〈◊〉 ver 3 ● in the 〈◊〉 representeth the catholick Church as say the Doctours of the Romish Church it is to be beleeued that the grossest beast so that he beare the marke of the beast of Rome is holden in like estimation indued with the same gifts as was Moses Isaiah S. Paule For saith the B. of Eureux the Church is so assisted with the spirit of God according to the promises of Christ her spouse that whether it bee for grace or for interpretation of this word he neuer suffereth it to fal into errour And therupon he reproacheth me that I vnderstand not the meaning of this proposition The Church cannot err in matters of Saluation Let the Christian Reader iudge how I vnderstand it If we take this word Church for the vniuersall Church the bodie of Christ wherof part is tryūphant in heauen part stil militant on earth both being vnited to their head by the power of his spirit that proposition is most true If on the contrarie the Church be taken but for that part which is scattered on earth I say it is most false For that which is subiect to infirmitie to imperfection to errour and ignorance in euery one of his parts cannot make a whole which is perfect But there is not a man that sinneth not 〈◊〉 ●8 46. ●2 〈◊〉 13.9 ●4 7. saith Salomon and Saint Iames all of vs knowe but in part and Prophesie but in part Neither is there any one member which hath not neede to take euery day groweth according to the measure of the gift of Christ So that all the promises of the Spouse to the Church are to bee vnderstoode of that which hee daily worketh and encreaseth in his not of that which is alreadie perfected and finished And Du Perrons conclusion is no lesse false and vnapt than this GOD saith hee hath promised vs the beginning the progresse and the end therefore wee haue the end at the same instant as we haue the beginning The titles of perfection which are some times attributed to the children of GOD setteth before them rather the marke whereat they should ayme than any waies imprinteth in them an opinion of hauing already attained it So we cal a building a House thogh it be not yet finished If this perfection were wholly attained to there would remaine no more any thing to be builded and the power of God should not bee made perfect in our weaknes Iesus Christ washeth and cleanseth his Church euery day but it shall not be wholy cleane without spot or wrinkle till the day of the Lambes mariage when the Bridegrome shall bring his Spouse into his celestiall chamber Wee acknowledge the perpetuall assistance of Gods Spirit to his Church which is the soule of the Church and giueth spirituall life thereunto But life is one thing and perfect health without any infirmity is another thing It is one thing to haue a natural operation which is euer done after a fashion in which there is some necessitie an other thing to haue a-voluntarie operation which is done at discretion with liberty the holy Ghost assisteth the Church so far forth as to giue it life which is a thing wholy necessary for the accōplishmēt of the promises of her husband Christ for if the Spirit did in this sort faile the Church the Church would also faile Iesus Christ but this life this light of grace doth not abolish that of nature which is in euery mēber of the Church which maketh it often to faint to faile to fall though neuer vtterly to fall away The holy Ghost gouerneth it as well as reason gouerneth the will in man But as the will doth often swarue frō reason yet without loosing it wholy or altogither 1. Tim. 3.1 so the Church swarueth often from the spirit which notwithstanding doth not wholy forsake it for all that The Church remaineth also