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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A07038	Oh read ouer D. Iohn Bridges, for it is worthy worke: or an epitome of the fyrste booke, of that right worshipfull volume, written against the puritanes, in the defence of the noble cleargie, by as worshipfull a prieste, Iohn Bridges, presbyter, priest or elder, doctor of Diuillitie, and Deane of Sarum Wherein the arguments of the puritans are wisely prevented, that when they come to answere M. Doctor, they must needes say some thing that hath bene spoken. Compiled for the behoofe and overthrow of the vnpreaching parsons, fyckers, and currats, that haue lernt their catechismes, and are past grace: by the reverend and worthie Martin Marprelat gentleman, and dedicated by a second epistle to the terrible priests. In this epitome, the foresaide fickers, [et]c. are very insufficiently furnished, with notable inabilitie of most vincible reasons, to answere the cauill of the puritanes. ...; Oh read over D. John Bridges. Epitome	Marprelate, Martin, pseud.; Throckmorton, Job, 1545-1601, attributed name.; Penry, John, 1559-1593, attributed name.	1588 (1588)	STC 17454; ESTC S112311	32,960	52

500. green heads more that are on their side within 2. Syllogismes would set the deane of Sarum at a flat non plus and answere his whole worke in a threepenie booke● Are they so good at disputing and writing in deed I hope his Canterburinesse will looke to this geare and suffer them to haue liberty neither to write nor to dispute the black Oxe hath troden on his foote he hath had some trial by woful experience what small credite and lesse-gaine there is to be had either in writing or disputing with these fellows To the matter The state of the whole controuersie betweene my brethren bishops and my brethren the puritans and so betweene this worthie doctor and these discoursers is whether the externall gouernement of the Church of Christ be a thing so prescribed by the Lorde in the new testament as it is not lawfull for any man to alter the same any more then it was lawfull to alter y e form of regiment prescribed vnder the law in the old testamēt And see whether if there be any gouernment in y e Church as necessarily there must be or els all confusion will ensue the same must be by those offices and officers alone and by no other which the Lord hath set downe and limited in his word Or els whether man may alter these offices and officers at his will and pleasure and make newe offices and officers as he may in the ciuill gouernments The puritans saye that these offices and officers whiche our sauior Christe and his Apostles did ordaine ●re unchangeable and that it is not lawfull for any pri●ce to alter them no not though the circumstances of times places and persons should seeme in regarde of conuenience to enforce him thereunto The doctor with all the Lordly priests in the land hold the contrarie And sweare it to be lawfull for the magistrate to ordaine what gouernement he will in the Church yea that the Church gouernors contrary to the flat commandement of our sauior Christ Luke 22.25.26 may be Lordes And that the Church gouernment prescribed by our Sauiour Christe and enioyned by the Apostle was not immutable as the regiment vnder the lawe was In so much as in the opinion of M. Bridges and the rest of the cleargie Paul was deceiued Ephesians the 4.13 in saying that pastors and doctors were to cōtinue in the Church vntil we al meet together that is vnto the ende of the worlde Here then is the puritans●● for the permanencie of this gouernment and M doctors no. ● Our brethren for so of his meere curtesie it pleaseth M. deane to call them whome men commonly call puritans and precisians to make their partie good propound the cause by a like example after this sort The sacrifices of y e olde lawe after the building of the temple were to be offered onely at Ierusalem by a Leuite of the li●e of Alia●on onely vnlesse a prophet extraordina●ily ordained it otherwise as Eliah did And the said sacrifices were to be consumed and burned onely by a fire proceeding from the Lord. Briefly none were to m●ddle with the tabernacle or any thing belonging to the seruice of God but the sonnes of Leui whome the Lord appointed for his owne seruice So that if anye sacrifice were offered out of Ierusalem by any other then a sonne of Aaron consumed by any strange fire or any seruice about the Tabernacle performed by a stranger not appointed by y e Lord then an horrible breath of gods ordinance was committed and punished very memorable by the Lord in 〈◊〉 Corah Dathan Abi●am the two hundreth and fiftie captaines of the Congregation who not being of the sonnes of Aaron would needs offer incense before the Lord. In like sort Christe Iesus ordained that when there should be any ministers in his Church they should be able to gather together the saints and that those in their proper and limited places should be either pastors or doctors In like sort he ordained that som should bear rule and ouersee the flocke with the minister and they should be Elders that the ouersight of the Church treasurie the care for the maintenance of the poore should be committed vnto Deacons vnder which also the widowes Church seruants are contained He farther ordained that before these officers shoulde be instituted and as it were inuested into their offices there should be had one examination of their fitnes to exemte the same and their vnreprooueable life And that their ordination shoulde be by imposition of hands with fasting and prayer And by these 4. officers say our brethren Pastors Doctors Elders and Deacons God hath appointed that all matters of the Church should be decided determined For these officers onely and none else must haue to do with the preaching of the ●ord● administring the sacraments making of mu●sters excommunicating and administring of all other Churche censures and punishmentes But as for ciuill gouernment punishment and censures they must not meddle with them Because these thinges onely belongeth to the ciuill magistrate whose off●●e is not to be vsurped by any of the ●●●mer Thus our brethrē set downe the whol state of the controuersie and thus by Scripture they confirme their I and ouerthrow M. doctors no. Parlous fellowes I assure yo● For beleeue me it would put a man to his trumps to answer these things soundly by scripture againe Well M. Deane on the other side verye stoutly proosteth his no● page 54. of his by a conner axiome to beginne withall on this maner If this Church gouernement by pastors doctors elders and deacons be necessarie then the Church in some age place eyther had this gouernment or hath labored for it A most true and tried trueth what then brother Sa●●●● do you assume from this true gouerment ●ay sof● there ●a masse deane I trow the puritans will not driue me to make syllogismes in this booke That is no part of mine intent for if I had thought they would driue me to suche pinches I would not haue medled with them Naye by their leaue if the assumption or proposition bee eyther more then I can prooue or be against my selfe I will omit them Pardon me I praye ye my masters I will set downe nothing against my self I haue brought in a true proposition and that is inough for one man I thinke Let me see what you can saye to that Mine assumption shalbe brought forth at leysure Is the winde at that dore with you brother deane I perceiue you will be of the surer side howsoeuer it goeth But brethren what then say you to M. deanes reason Your answere I know may be of 3. sorts First you may say that the reason is popish Secondly you may demand whether it be mid sommer Moone with him or no because he bringeth in a couex proposition and assumeth nothing Can you blame him in so doing For the

Oh read ouer D. Iohn Bridges for it is worthy worke Oranepitome of the fyrste Booke of that right worshipfull volume written against the Puritanes in the defence of the noble cleargie by as worshipfull a prieste Iohn Bridges Presbyter Priest or elder doctor of Diuillitie and Deane of Sarum Wherein the arguments of the puritans are wisely prevented that when they come to answere M. Doctor they must needes say some thing that hath bene spoken Compiled for the behoofe and overthrow of the vnpreaching Parsons Fyckers and Currats that haue lernt their Catechismes and are past grace By the reverend and worthie Martin Marprelat gentleman and dedicated by a second Epistle to the Terrible Priests In this Epitome the foresaide Fickers c. are very insufficiently furnished with notable inabilitie of most vincible reasons to answere the cauill of the puritanes And lest M. Doctor should thinke that no man can write without sence but his selfe the senceles titles of the seueral pages and the handling of the matter throughout the Epitome shewe plainely that beetleheaded ignoraunce must not liue and die with him alone Printed on the other hand of some of the Priests Martin Marprelate gentleman primate and Metropolitane of al the Martins in England To all the Cleargie masters wheresoeuer sayth as followeth WHy my cleargie masters is it euen so with your terriblenes May not a pore gentleman signifie his good will vnto you by a Letter but presently you must put your selues to the paines and charges of calling foure Bishops together Iohn Canterburie Iohn London Thomas Winchester William of Lincolne and posting ouer citie countrie for poore Martin Why his meaning in writing vnto you was not that you should take the paines to seeke for him Did you thinke that he did not know where he was himselfe Or did you thinke him to haue bene cleane lost that you sought so diligently for him I thanke you brethren I can be well though you do not send to knowe how I do My mind towards you you shal from time to time vnderstand by my pistles As now where you must know that I thinke not wel of your dealing with my worship and those that haue had of my bookes in their custodie Ile make you rue that dealing of your● vnlesse you leaue it I may do it for you haue broken the conditions of peace betweene vs. I can do it for you see how I am fauored of all estates the puritans onely excepted I haue bene entertayned at the Court Euerye man talkes of my worship Manye would gladly receiue my bookes if they coulde tell where to finde them I hope these Courtier● will one day see the cause tryed betweene mee and you I haue manie sonnes abroad that will sollicit my suite My desire is to haue the matter tryed whether your places ought to be tollerated in any Christian commonwealth I saye they ought not And I say Iohn Canterburie and all ought to be out of his place Euery Archbishop is a petty Pope so is euery Lord bishop You are all the pack of you eyther hirelings or wolues If you dare aunswere my reasons let me see it done Otherwise I trow my friends and sonnes will see you one day deposed The Puritans are angrie with me I meane the puritane preachers And why Because I am to open Because I iest I iested because I delt against a worshipful iester D. Bridges whose writings and sermons tend to no other ende then to make men laugh I did thinke that Martin shoulde not haue beene blamed of the puritans for telling the trueth openly For may I not say that Iohn of Canterbury is a pettie pope seing he is so You must then beare with my ingramnesse I am plaine I must neede call a Spade a Spade a Pope a Pope I speake not against him as he is a Councellor but as he is an Archbishop and so Pope of Lambeth What will the Puritane seeke to keepe out the Pope of Rome and maintaine the Pope at Lambeth Because you will do this I will tell the Bishope how they shall deale with you Let them say that the hottest of you hath made Martin and that the rest of you were consenting there vnto● and so go to our magistrates and say lo such and such of our puritane haue vnder the name of Martin written against your lawes and so call you in and put you to your othes whether yon made Martin or no. By this meanes M. Wiggington or such as will refuse to take an othe against the lawe of the land will presently be founde to haue made Martin by the bishops because he cannot be gotten to sweare that he made him not And here is a deuice to fynde a hole in the coat of some of you puritanes In life sort to fynde the Printer put euery man to his othe and fynd meanes that Schilders of Middleborough shalbe sworne to so that if any refuse to sweare then he may be thought to be the pri●●ter But bishops let your fatherhoods tel me one thing May you put men to their oth● against law Is there any law to force men to accuse themselues No. Therefore looke what this dealing wil procure at the length Euen a plain premunire vpon your backe for vrging an oth contrary to statute which is a piece of the forraine power bannished by statute For the rest that will needs haue my bookes and cannot keepe them close I care not how the bishops deale with such open fellowes And bishops I woulde I could make this year 1388. to be the woonderful year by remoouing you all out of England Martin hath tolde the trueth you cannot denie it that some of you do iniuriously detayne true mens goods as Iohn of London And some haue accounted the preaching of the word to be heresie as Iohn of Canterburie c. All of you are in an vnlawfull callng no better then a broode of pettie Popes It will be but Follie for you to persecute the Courtier Martin vntill you haue cleared your selues which you can neuer do of the crimes he hath layd to your charge Alas poore bishops you would faine be hidden in a net I perceiue I will grow to a point with you Haue but a free disputation with the puritans for the vnlawfulnes of your place and if you be not ouerthrowen● I wil come in and do vnto you what you thinke good for then I will say that you are no Popes There was the Demonstration of Discipline published together with mine Epistles which is a booke wherein you are challenged by the puritane to aduenture your Bishopprick● against their liues in disputation You haue gotten a good excuse to be deaff at that challenge vnder couler of seeking for Martin Your dealing therein is but to holde my dishe whilo I spill my pottage you defend your legges against Martine strokes while the puritans by their Demonstration crushe the very braine of your Bishopdomes Answere that booke and giue the puritan●

scripture medleth with no ciuill pollicie anye farther then to teach obedience therefore it teacheth not what persons should beare rule And again page 44. The ministers office is ouer the soule therfore a minister must not reprehende disorders in the ciuill state page 47. Paules commission is to teache obedience therefore hee hath nothing to doe to call for a redresse of matters in ciuil pollicie yea in this 47. page line 19. Iohn of London hath these wordes which to his commendation I will set downe as followeth And this being a great matter of pollicie sayth he as it is the greatest for it containeth the whole it cannot be within the compasse of Paules commission and so it followeth that Paul in this place ment no such matter as they gather or if hee did he did it without the compasse of his commission c. Nowe truely brother Bridges I thanke you heartily for putting me in minde of this point I hope my brother London cannot be offēded with vs for quoting him for our authoritie I see now it is no maruaile though Paul be put to silence within the diocesse of London for I perceiue there is an olde grudg betweene my Lord and him yet I commende your fatherhood better then his Lordship in this point For in the 57. page of your booke you allowe Paule a larger commission where you say that the worde of God is able to make the ciuill gouernement perfect yea and that the perfection of the ciuill gouernement must be out of the word and in the word inclusiuely But for all this you must giue me leaue to doubt how this reson of yours followeth Christ hath prescribed the inward gouernment therfore he hath not prescribed the outwarde It may be your seconde reason will make the matter more cleare vnto me which is in the same page thus framed We are his Church if we holde fast the confidence of our hope vnto the end Therefore there is no externall gouernment of the Church set downe in the word This reason to omit what ground it hath in the worde is very plausible euen in nature is it not thinke you A man is a man though he go naked Therefore by maste● deanes reason the Lorde hath ordained no couering for his nakednes Again a man is a man if he be once born though he neuer eate meate therefore it is not the ordinance of God he should eat meat Let our cauilling brethren go see nowe what may be brought to reproche the credit of such inforcible proofes M. Doc. doubtlesse will stand to his tackle whatsoeuer they bring If they should be so ignoraunt as to denie the consequent of both these reasons they must stay vntill M. Deane hath read euer his predicables predicaments with fryar Titlemanes rules De inveniendis medijs v● vntil he hath gotten a bishoppricke before he prooue eyther of them And it may be then to that he will prooue what they denie as master Canterburie hath prooued that which master Cartwright confuted In the meane time marke how stoutly M. deane goeth forward And although page 56. he meet by the way with his nowne sweet friend Bellarmines a popish writers distinction of agreeable and not contrarye to the word the papistes affirming all their m●ditions to be agreeable and none of them contrary to the word yet his answere page 57. to the place of Paule 2. Tim. 3.7 is as good and as canonicall as anye of the former reasons concluded thus The place of scripture which doth not denie but that the ciuill gouernement which must be inclusiuely according to the worde may be elsewhere prescribed then in the worde that place also doth not forbid the Church gouernment to be fetched from some other fountaine then the prescription of the worde But this place 2. Tim. 3.7 doth not denie but that ciuill gouernment being a gouernement nor prescribed in the worde may bee learned elsewhere then out of the word and yet be according to the worde Also it doeth not denie but that the church gouernment may be a church gouernment according to the word which is not therein prescribed It is a hard matter I tell you to conceiue all the wisdomnes of this syllogisme For if you marke the proposition very well you shall therein finde the errors as M. doctor accounteth them of Peter and Paule verye notablie ouerthrown The one of them calleth the ciuill gouernement an humane ordinaunce the other affirmeth our sauiour Christe to haue ordayned euery minister and Church officer that were at anye time to be in the Church and to haue tyed the ministerye vnto two ordinarie functions of pastors and doctors But his worship lighting vpon william Woodcockes diuinitie putteth in the propositions both that the Church gouernment is an ordinance of man inuented and ordayned by man and also that there may be as many sortes of ministers in the Church if the magistrate will haue it so as there be degrees of ciuill officers in a common-wealth For the Church gouernement is no more prescribed in the word sayth the deane then the ciuill gouernment is You may see then how headie and peruerse these our brethren are that had rather sticke vnto a poore fisherman and Tentmaker Peter and Paule in a matter of trueth then imbrace the manifest falsehood of so plaine an vntrueth with a fat deane and all the braue spiritual Lordes in the lande Well fare our cleargie men yet who being like the priest whereof Iohn of London maketh mention of in his foresaid booke page 32. line 3. that sware by his priesthood that if the Trinitie were not in his portesse he would not beleeue it will allow of nothing but that which is in the B. of Canterburies Articles be it neuer so often read in Paules writings And I trow M. doctors reasons following wil make the puritans stoope vnto his grace and leaue their peeuishnes and running beyonde their commission after the example of Paule in speaking against any established gouernement yea and a gouernment established by act of parliament I thinke my L. of London gaue Paule inough as we heard before for medling with state matters And his grace admonisheth the puritan preachers often inough that howsoeuer they haue trueth of their side yet they must not runne beyond a law and without law if they doe though they haue Peter and Paule to speake for them yet by your leaue hee hath in his hande that whiche will tame them and all their fa●tors If the abusing of the high commission an whole popedome be able to do it But all this while we go not on forward with you brother Sarum Therefore in the next page let vs here how you fetch your brethren ouer the coales with your next reason whereof trust me I know not almost though it were to gaine a bishoprick how I should make a good syllogisme but I will do my best after this manner It suffizeth that suche orders

as are not prescribed in the word as things necessarie to saluation be they ciuill or ecclesiasticall bee onely foulded vp within those that are prescribed and to make them as things expedient to edification order and comelines for obedience sake although they be none of those things that appertaine to any necessity of our saluatiō or to any absolute necessity of our obedience But such is the Church gouernement as it is not prescribed in the word as necessarie to saluation or of any absolute necessity of our obedience Therfore it is sufficient that the Church gouernment be onely foulded vp within the things prescribed in the worde and be of the nature of the thinges that onely belong to edification order and comlines I was neuer so affraid in my life that I shoulde not come to an end till I had bene windlesse Do you not see how I pant Our brethren now are to come to their answere Concerning necessarie to saluation then say they we woulde knowe brother Bridges thrise learned brother Bridges we woulde know what you meane whether such a necessitie as without which men cannot bee saued I meane euen the same sayth M. deane as it appeareth page 60. line 21.22 of my booke then we replie that nothing is of this necessity but only iustifieng faith and we denie the sacraments to be of this necessitie For the theefe on the gallowes was saued without them And we thinke moreouer that your impietie and ignorance M. deane to be outragious and intollerable say they in that you go about to teach the holy Ghost what he shall prescribe in the word because by this proposition of yours nothing should be prescribed therein concerning the sacraments for they are not there prescribed as things necessarie to saluation in such sort as men cannot be saued without them But if you ment not this necessitie then wee woulde knowe if you can tell your selfe what you woulde haue forsooth brethren a bishoppricke he would haue and all such troublesome fellowes as you are bannished y e land Hoe yon meane such a necessitie as euerie Church is not bounde to obserue the same order vpon their obedience For example you meane that euery Churche or seuerall congregation in Europe professing the trueth is not bounde to haue their Churche couered with lead as the monastery of Sarum is For they may lawfully haue it couered with slade or tyle You meane that they are not bound euerye one of them to haue a sermon vppon the wednesday for they may lawfully haue it vpon any other day in the weeke That euery Church is not bounde to haue a pulpit 4. foot high for they may without sin haue one lower or higher if expediencie edification require the same That is euen my moaning in deede and so ● would page 59. saith M. dean That these things should be vrged no otherwise then Paule doth vrge them that is not placing the perfection of religion in them or making them orders necessarie for the building but rather for the ornaments of the building and so squaring them all according vnto the rule Let all be done honestly and by good order Is this your meaning M. doctor you haue spun a fayre thred Can you tell your brother Marprelat with all your learning howe to decline what is Latine for a goose Why this euery one of your brethren his selfe wil graunt to be true and they neuer denied it at any time But this is not the question For it is neither concerning Churche officer office or anye part of Church gouernement whereof the question is instituted but it is concerning matter of circumstance Yet brother Iohn what do you meane by these contrarieties in this point For you haue heard page 59 you meane by things necessary to saluation matters of indifferencie and page 60. line 21 22. you meane an absolute necessitie without which men cannot be saued Do you think that you can answer men by saying that you in deed wrote page 79. But D. Perne wrote page 60. the which you had no leysure to ouersee This is a prettie aunswere is it not think● you Let me take you againe in such a pranck and ile ●ourse you as you were better to bee seeking Gammer Gurtons needle then come within my fingers And warned M. doctor saye the puritanes we will giue you leaue to take eyther of these 2. necessities to be your meaning If you meane as page 59. be necessarie to saluation then they denie the assumption And yet they will haue one course more at the proposition before they goe because it came from home and will bring foorth a Iesuit vnlesse betimes it be had to the house of correction They say thē that you still ioyne with Bellarmine For in the state of the question concerning tradition He hath the same cauill cap. 3. lib. 2. against Caluin Luther and Kemnitius which you haue concerning comdines and order in this place against your brethren What a sawcie fellow was that Bellarmine that must needes publish his worke for the Pope one iust yeare before you published yours for the Archbishop Could he not keep it in vntill both your books might be published together For now these puritans do shake you very shrewdly for borrowing popishe stuffe from Bellarmine ouerthrowing her Maiesties supremacie whereas I am perswaded that although Bellarmin had neuer written yet the master that taught him would in time haue fully instructed you in all these points that are forged vpon his Anvil And although as I thinke he saued you a great deale of studie yet I pray you let D. Perne write vnto him that he may know his fault and you be certified when hee writeth againe that both your bookes may come forth together Nowe if in your assumption saye our brethren if you meane by necessitie to saluation that without which men cannot be saued as before it is true that the Church gouernment is not of this necessitie for in that sence as was sayd the sacraments are not necessarie to saluation or of a●y absolute necessitie vnto our obedience Nay to be no traytor no ●dolator no whoremonger is not of that absolute necessitie to saluation but y t he may be saued whiche hath beene so th●● now he be none sometimes an idolator c. If you meane that other necessitie wherby al they that will haue any gouernment in the Church are bound to haue that onely and none els which God hath prescribed in the worde or else transgresse y t inuiolable prescript ordinaunce of God concerning the gouernement of his Church Then they denie the assumption Here is a pretie matter that one poore syllogisme must be thus handled I woulde his worshipp knewe who they were that thus deale with him I hope it should not be long ere 〈…〉 the Pur●iuant as vnnaturall a sourfaced 〈◊〉 as en●● was in that office should trudge for them They shall be met with one day I doubt not M. deane

it then in deede I must thinke you not to be altogether so leaddenheaded as your brother Bridges For do you thinke that a man entreating of the Maior of London the two Shiriffs and their offices speaketh by by of some part of the order gouerment of the citie of London or of som of the gouernours of the citie As though my L. Maior the two Shiriffes were now become to be any of the gouernours of the citie of London or their offices any part of that gouernment Who seeth not by this example the folly of our precise brethrens reason euidently declared The Apostle say they speketh of Apostles prophets Euangelists pastors doctors and their functions for this M.D. confesseth therfore he speaketh of some ecclesiasticall gouernours and of some part of ecclesiasticall gouernement Apostles prophets pastors and doctors are church gouernours with them and their office a part of ecclesiasticall gouerment Let them learne let them learn simple siginnes as they are that the Apostle speaketh in this place of ecclesiasticall functions and not of any part of ecclesiasticall gouerment For so M.D. in this 61. pag compare line 17. with line 22. teacheth vs to speake English making an ecclesiasticall function to be a thing altogether differing in nature from euery part of ecclesiasticall gouernment A very proper and pleasant distinction In the second place this testimonie brought in by our brethren is prooued to make nothing to their purpose by two reasons And what bommination vmbertie of reasons here be to perceede foorth one head and yet euerye one fause as it is true that my good brother Ouerton the B. of Liechfield and Couentree sould his Chauncellorship at one time vnto two se●erall men to wit to D. Beacon and the good Chauncellor M. Zacharie Babington Well parson Bridges his 1. reason is after this sort That place which sheweth gifts and functions to be ordayned in the Church to the buylding vp of the bodie of Christe in the vnitie of the fayth and knowledge maketh nothing to prooue that there is an ecclesiasticall gouerment prescribed in the worde Thou sayst euen true parson Iohn For what hath the functions of pastors doctors Apostles c. to doe with Church gouernement A prettie matter euery beggerly Apostle pastor doctor or Euangelist y t cannot spende no I am sure no● 40. marks yearely by all the spirituall liuing he hath in his hande must nowe be a Church gouernour with our brethren their offices be a part of Church gouernment Why brethren what meane you by this place you haue brought O● you thinke that the Apostle by those functions and those persons spoken of Ephes. 4.12 meaneth that any of them functions shoulde be a Lordlike functiou or any of the persons Lord. You saye he doth not No doth not Then out of your owne grant he speaketh nothing of ecclesiasticall gouernment and gouernors Because euerie ecclesiasticall gouernour must needs be a Lord and so ecclesiasticall gouernment a lordly gouernement If this be not true aske my brother Bridges For should God ordaine great men and great Lords to be rulers in common wealths ouer whome hee hath not so great care as he hath for his Church and ordayne none but beggerly fellowes not able to spend 200. markes by the yeare nay nor 20. neither to beare rule in his Church I grant in deed that you brethren puritans saye the trueth as it ought to be that bishops or ministers ought not to be Lords in any wise eyther as ministers or as ciuill magistrates Thus in deed it ought to be I and my brethren the Bb. do grant vnto you And you knowe we would it were so But you know also that our laws will haue Church gouernours to be Lords and what should our Bishops good noble men refuse that which the law would haue them to take Get you the law to be against their lordly callings and see whether they will not giue ouer their Lord bishopdomes whensoeuer lawe compelleth them And whensoeuer they giue ouer they shall haue no cause to thanke suche enuious brethren as you are Howsoeuer it be you see the Apostle speaking of all sorts of ministers by your owne confession speaketh nothing of any Lord or Lordly gouerment among them all and therefore speaketh nothing of Church gouernment Againe all those functions whereof the Apostle maketh any mention as my brother Bridges hath well noted are ordayned to the buylding of the bodie of Christe in the vnitie of fayth and knowledge Nowe I would anye puritan of you all durst say that our Church gouernors that is our venerable and worshipfull Lord bishops are ordained of God for the building of his bodie which I know you will say to be done by preaching As though ● bishops being ciuill gouernours should preach Were it meete I pray you to see Steuen Gardiner being thē of the priuie Counsell in the pulpit Counsellors nowe must haue ●omething to doe with pulpit matters muste they I pray you Will you allow that ciuill gouernours should be ordinarie preachers in your new platforme of a reformed Church I know you will not And what reason is it then that you should require Bb. to be ordinary preachers seeing euery bishop is a ciuil gouernour I tel you true I am so far from thinking that bishops ought to be ordinarie preachers seeing they are ciuill gouernours that I hold it a sin for them to preache ordinarily And brethren you doe not well therefore in vrging ciuil gouernours to preach especially seing you your selues in your platformes are against this point And because it shall be seene that I deale vprightly betweene you and the P.P. prelates I will set downe my reason answer it when you can it shall be concluded I warrant you in moode and figure But in deed I haue inuented a newe moode of mine owne for I haue bin a great schooleman in my daies which containeth in it a great misterie The misterie I will expound it may be in a book for the purpose In the meane time if you resort to my sonne Martin senyor that worthy wight he it may be shalbe able to vnfolde the secresie thereof This is the syllogisme the moode answereth vnto Celarent elder daughter to Barbara and I will haue it called Perncanterburikenolde Perne No ciuill magistrate can be an ordinarye preacher without sinne Ce la rent Canterburie Euerie Lorde Bishoppe is a ciuill magistrate Therefore Ce la rent Kenolde No Lord Bishop can be an ordinarie preacher without sinne Ce la rent What say you now brethren would you haue ciuill gouernors such as our Bishops are to preach I hope not For although I cannot deny but som of our bishops are very great breakepulpits and haue as marueilous rawe gifts in preaching as any that euer came to Pauls wharff yet surely I cānot see what warrant you haue to vrge ciuil officers to preach Wherefore also you doe not well in crying out against ciuil gouernors because