therefore to know that the true Church is the onely Catholick in three respects First because it alone was at first planted by the Apostles in the whole world which is clear since only one pretends her doctrin by succession from Them which al planted by them must needs do Secondly because it alone is found in the whole compass of the Christian world all Hereticks being every kind in some Countries but none in all Thirdly because it alone commands in that part of Christianity where Religion is in vigour And these three come out of it's very nature for being the Truth it alone can overcome So you have now two signes or marks of the true Church The third is sanctity can you tel how the true Church is onely Holy S. Sir I see ther 's more praying more works of charity devotion penance austereness and the like in the Catholick Church than among Protestans But what is among others I know not M. 'T is wel answer'd but to go more orderly you know sanctity is nothing but the practise or Confirmation in those virtues that lead us to heaven which is the life God Almighty sent his onely Son to give us This consists in Three things First in Faith and Doctrin wherein you shall find all hereticks in the points of difference swarve from this end and the Catholick Church hold to it as in praying to Saints praying for the dead and the like Secondly in Laws and Customs which because they are according to Faith must needs be different according to it Thirdly in Life and executions of those Rules wherein likewise the difference must hold with this caveat that there may be more and greater wickedness among Catholicks by reason of the multitude of the professors of that Religion nay of it self for who have not so good things to offend against cannot be so wicked S. How then can Holiness be a sign of the true Church if there be so much wickedness in the members of it M. Though there be much and perhaps more wickedness among Catholicks yet is there more Sanctity also For among others there is hardly ever any man of extraordinary devotion heard of Congregations of men and women abstaining from pleasures and separating themselvs from the world none are found unless such as were begun in Catholick times extraordinary acts of penance or heroick virtue are are not to be look'd for In fine very little more then nature affooâ—ds besides some bare words of God and Christ And this follows of necessity from the nature of being the true Church which by the soundness of its root needs must confiâ—m and have effect whâ—m the false ones fail But is there no other mark of the Church besides these three Apostolik Catholik and Holy S. Yes and I have been taught 't is Unity M. You say well And to be One It must first have one principle in which all of this Religion agree wherein if others should also agree they could not be of another Religion This Principle is Tradition to which none lay claym but onely Catholicks Secondly it must bee One in the Trofession of this faith that is in Sacraments For seeing Catholick Religion sprung from one Master Jesus Christ necessary 't is that it 's Râ—tes as it were Essentiall Actions which being outward Expressions of our Faith and so proportion'd to it are delivered by the same Jesus Christ be the same also whence no congregation but his Church can agree in all these no more then any other can agree in all Faith Thirdly in Government his Church must be One that there may be some end of controversies Civil and Theological which happen betwixt her children and this in Eqâ—ality cannot be Therefore amongst the Apostles S. Peter amongst Bishops His Successours have the supreme and definitive sentence What touches Faith we have already sufficiently explicated For the second can you tel me what a Sacrament is S. No indeed for though I have often heard of it I cannot remember it M. Sacramentum comes of sacer or sacrando and it is by which somewhat is made holy or an holy deed and because a Secret by an Oath becomes holy it being a sacriledge to reveal it after oath such an Oath is call'd Sacramentum and from the oath the secret sworn is also styl'd Sacramentum and in Greek Sacramentum is call'd Mysterium that is a Mystery So because Christians us'd their rites amongst themselves and kept them from the knowledge of Infidels they were called Sacramenta As the rites of Ceres or other false Gods which were done hiddenly were called Mysteria But you must distinguish a little more exactly betwixt other ceremonies and Sacraments S. Sir I know not what you mean for I am a meer stranger in this matter M. Then you must know there were Sacraments in the Jew's law there are in Christs law as also things called Sacramentalia that is Sacramentals Which are all to be distinguish'd For Sacraments are as wee may so call them the main hinges or knots of a Christian life and their institution is from Christ Sacramentals are instituted by the Church and are but certain formalities and Blessings As for the Sacraments of Jews you are to understand that as God Almighty brought them to love and serve him by temporal promises and rewards that he might give them celestial in the next world so their Sacraments made them but capable of temporal blessings as Circumcision made the Jew one whose part was in the land of promise their Purifications made a man one who might offer sacrifice be heard for children for good years for peace for long life c. wherefore were they said to cleanse the body not the soul to be empty poor instruments or elements Now the Sacraments of Christians give the inward thing which their promises signify As Baptism makes a man one of those whose share is in Heaven Penance one to enter the Christian Church and be heard when he prays for Heaven And the like These Sacraments therefore when receiv'd as they ought are efficacious give true goods that is spiritual graces to those who participate of them But can you tel me how many Sacraments there are S. Seven Baptism Confirmation Eucharist Penance Order Extreme-Unction and Matrimony Please you tel me why there are so many M. Did not I tel you they were the hinges of Christian life Now the soul being in a body proportionate to it Christian life is also proportion'd to this temporal Consider then that our corporal life is maintain'd by these degrees In birth it takes t 's beginnining next it gets greatness and strength to live among so many contraries and difficulties as this world is ful of Then it conserves it self while it may perform the actions for which 't was made And lastly gives life to others to succeed it's defect
both Sometimes also be unquiet and uncertain not knowing what he would have And so we see a man given impotently either to wealth or pleasure never to be at rest but continually in a painfull pursuit of what he never enjoyes You have told mee that all mankind was subject to sin and the Devil and by them to other mischiefs But are you so good an historian as to shew me this to have indeed pass'd according as is declar'd S. No truly Sir for although peradventure in sermons I have heard much thereof yet I carry away but litle M. Wel I am sure you have heard how God was oblig'd in Justice through the wickedness of mankinde to destroy all but Noah his family eight persons onely by the great floud And I may add that Noah might have talk'd with some who knew Adam so that the fresh memory of our loss of Paradise could not hinder the increase of sin Peradventure mens lives being so long the fear of death hope of future life was cold in them therefore God shorten'd our dayes for our greater good Soon after our forefathers grew into the vanity of building Babel tower and not long after into that prodigious luxury which drew fire from heaven upon the five cities whereof Sodom and Gomorrah were the chief Wherefore God seeing all mankind could not be kept in good order without an universal miracle destroying quite the present state of nature and not perfecting it according as the particular natures requir'd which therefore God saw incongruous for the wiâ—e administration of the woâ—ld hereupon hee chose one family for his elected people ply'd them with perpetuall apparitions prophesies rewards and punishments gave them a law in force of miracles and astonishing greatness Yet the books of scripture teach that they were perpetually straying from Gods law till hee was provok'd to transport them to Babylon whence they came after long and severe punishment little amended and therefore still subject to oppositions and oppressions by Greeks and Latins So that with all the means which man could invent it was not possible to keep mankinde out of Sin Can you tell me the reason of it S. Sir you have told it already that it was originall sin which giving our Sense power to work without the command of Reason caus'd all this mischief M. Right But I desire to know what 't is that it works which makes mankind so backward to it's own good Is 't not that man makes no apprehension of Gods law and the good of it S. Yes Sir the Sense following the present good hinders the consideration of the future M. You see then the remedy ought to be to make them believe and deeply apprehend the good of the next world whereto men being not able to attain either by Sense or discourse 't is necessary to give them a Teacher of whom they are assur'd that he knows what he teaches and will not tell them other then truth But what must such a one do to persuade the world S. He must teach them but seeing you say the matter is above reason I kâ—ow not how he should persuade them that things are so as he teaches them M. Will you not beleeve a man in things whose truth you see not if he work strange and miraculous effects in proof of his savings S. Yes Sir or else I were very unreasonable M. If then this Teacher works wonders which wee call Miracles he will deserve credit at your hands S. Yes for none can do miracles but Almighty God M. Neither is there any who may not be suspected ignorant of such high matters or safely held incapable of deceiving but onely God Nor can any one shew the way or bee a convenient Teacher for us but onely Man so that you see our necessity forc'd God to become man or else our whole kind hath been damn'd To which if you add that wee see and converse familiarly with man and easily incline to love him God wee cannot apprehend what hee is so that by by God's becoming man the way and means of loving Him which is our high path to salvation being infinitly plain'd mankind made infinitly more capable of salvation than before you will easily collect hence that it could not stand with the Goodness of God to let usâ—ly in misery since he could remedy it by a way so connaturall to mankind as was his assuming human nature God therefore was made Man FIFTH CONFERENCE M. VVE have discours'd already of God as our Maker Governour Redeemer as Eternall Almighty Al-knowing Al-perfect But have you no other Attribute of God which bears an eminent place in our Beleef S. Yes Sir that God is one three or that there is a Trinity but I dispair of understanding in any measure so high a point so that 't is enough to beleeve 't is so and this I do already M. Doubt not God's Goodness if your self bee not wanting to your self And first tell mee have you any apprehension of God as hee is in himself S. I know not that but I observe that generally I make no apprehension of any thing as 't is in it self which I never heard nor saw nor perceiv'd by some sense M. Your observation is good tell me next what do you apprehend oâ— mean by the words Good just mercifull and such like mean you not such perfections by them as you observ'd in Creatures S. Yes Sir I know not else what I could mean by them for I never converst with any thing else Besides I am perswaded one that never heard of God means the same by those words as I do which shows the meanings of them is taken from creatures But then mee thinks 't is an injury to God to attribute such low perfections to him which fall infinitly short of his dignity M. No harm by the grace of God as long as we hold fast this intention to attribute them to him onely so far as they signify perfection and not as they include imperfection In the mean time you see wee cannot speak of God as in himself but by means of those low conceits borrow'd from Creatures S. By this account wee must not sâ—y hee is one and three for no Creature is such M. You object shewdly but since you have already prov'd God is a Spirit and seen that a Spirit can Know and Will if out of these it be made as plainly follow that God is one and three as out of other considerations that he is Good Iust c. will it not bee a degree of satisfaction above what you could hitherto hope for S. I confess it will and I expect with longing you would lead me to this apprehension of so sublime a mystery which hitherto I knew nothing of M. Answer mee then first what means this word to know S. I am sure I understand what
neither can be ignorant of our miseries or their own favour with Almighty God or that he is wel pleas'd they should pray for us nor being ful of charity can they cease to help us what lies in their power their prayer being nothing but â— desire of our releef represented to God which al their desires perpetually are and cannot chuse but be in heaven where their whole hearts are bâ—nt upon nothing but through Him and according to his laws They therfore pray for us and their prayers are profitable to us and that Saint's most which is highest in favour with Almighty God Nevertheless I am faâ— from beleeving any of them so compassionatâ— no not the Blessed Mother of Christ as is her God and Son And he that should persuade one to turn his prayers from him to his Mother misses the mark very wide They therfore who counsel so many prayers to our Lady are to be understood of such prayers as would not be said at all unless they were said to her which returns to what I spake of that 't is to stir up a failing devotion in us and not as if the object were better And among other Saints I doubt not but the least has favour enough to obtain al that 's fitting for us and our Saviour the Chief of Saints more then all were not his Goodness alone unmov'd by the petitions of others so great that when mens dispositions are not failing he cannot hold himself from doing favours Whence we understand that such stories if authentical are but parabolical expressions of the great assistance we receive from Saints or rather figurative motions to stir up in us due sorrow for our sins and a greater honour of the God of Saints S. Then Sir it seems you think the devotions us'd to particular Saints are of little effect and in particular that of becoming Slaves to our blessed Lady S. No such thing follows out of my words for whatever excites continues or makes our devotion more servent I hold of great effect and to that end wel practic 't Indeed concerning making our selves Slaves to any Saint I very much doubt For a Slave is hee whose service is onely profitable to his master and nothing to himself Now our service is no ways profitable to any Saint but much to our selves Again our Wil is so built by Almighty God as to be totally subject to him because hee is Al-goodness and â—e onely can move our soul perfectly and satify it wherefore wee are boâ—n his slaves and according to nature we conform our selves in bending our whole wils to him But I fear mee to do the like to any creature were to wrong our creation and attribute that homage which is due to God alone that is to be sole directour of our souls to a creature But as for those who use it I presume either they understand not so much for I hear they are not learned or mean it in some improper sence Onely I would have you advertis'd that these extravagant devotions ordinarily argue either vanity or interest for which private men run private paths and desire to carry disciples after them let us follow the troden path of our fore-fathers Yet one thing wil I add that wee have not by Jesus Christ or his Church left us any externall actions with promise of grace and reward for the deed done but onely the Sacraments which are necessary more because they are professions of our faith and charity and certain initiations or associations to Christ's Church in some degree whence the very externall action proceeds from internall grace when done as it ought than that there is any connexion betwixt those external actions and merit by Christ's voluntary conjunction of them and therfore all those devotions which promise particular effects or rewards to the saying of certain prayers pretending Christ's special grant to some Saint as they cannot bee easily convinc'd of superstition because God can if he please do such things so they are not easily to be credited without manifest miraculous proof at least of the good life of the Saint who begins such a devotion and that certainly it came from him Because it is not acccording to the spirit which Christ has left to his Church which is to make us adorers in spirit and truth And therfore Christians ought to be drawn from putting their confidence in such things to place their trust in Christ and walk towards him in the known path of Charity and good works S. Sir you forgot my doubt how Saints hear our prayers since they have no ears and yet I have heard wiser men than my self stumble at it M. I thought you had been more learned for it seems you think they should have this sensible passion which wee cal hearing because we say they hear but this word hearing in that speech has the meaning of granting or according to our petition So that your difficulty must be how they know what wee ask of them which is with their minds or understandings as men know sciences and the Astronomer sitting in his study knows the situations aspects and courses of the stars which knowledg though in us it has the root in sense yet in them may have some other means or also have root in what came into their soul by the senses while they liv'd in this world And let thus much suffice for this present discourse bears not to wade into the depth of things Besides in many things we must be contented to know that they are though we cannot penetrate how they are such as we know them to be S. Now I am sorry I drew you from your former discourse wherfore to put you into it again I pray tel me whether you think the use of pictures and in particular the special honours done to some as hanging of lights before them carrying them in procession and making pilgrimages to them be among those whom you term extravagant devotions M. You ask many questions in one I will begin with the principal that is the use of pictures which if we believe nanature and experience is an use very profitable and as I think absolutely necessary in the Church of God for the instruction and spiritual profit of the faithful First for memory's sake for as oft as we see pictures so oft we remember the thing painted and whether we have need of often remembring heaven and heavenly things let even our cold and evil life bear testimony Secondly When a man say's his prayers before the picture of our Saviour or other Saint he naturally makes a quicker apprehension of the presence of him that 's spoken to and by consequence a greater respect and attention is bred in him that speaks Thirdly it serâ—'s for an Address of the prayer especially if there be any corporal gestures withal For as the ancient Christians were us'd to turn themselves to the East and the Jews towards the