Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	know_v	spirit_n	3,951	5	5.4085	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A08240	The copie of a letter sente to one maister Chrispyne chanon of Exceter for that he denied ye scripture to be the touche stone or trial of al other doctrines whereunto is added an appologie and a bulworke, in defe[n]ce of the same letter.	Nicolls, Philip.	1548 (1548)	STC 18575; ESTC S104162	27,471	96

doctours saye they and beleue the catholyke churche whiche hath continued frome Christes tyme hitherto we can shewe say they bi auncient writers from tyme to tyme sence Christs ascention But what can these men shewe Be not these writters whiche I haue rehersed of the chieffest of thē And al thes agre that their wrytinges must be tried by the scripture and if that allowe thē not they would not in any wise that we should beleue them This is a wonderfull thynge y t they would haue vs geue such credite to the doctours whiche thynge the docters them selues forbyd But they haue alwayes this sayeinge of Augustine in their mouthes I would not beleue the gospel except the authoritie of the c●urch did moue me Nowe as sone as they haue caught thys in theyr sermons thei triumph Lo say they what authorite did this g●eat doctour attribute to y e church in so much that y e gospel is and must be iudged by y e church For wtout the church he would not beleue christes gospel manye wordes haue they which I cā not remembre But me think these mē mought be answered out of Augustines owne wordes before rehersed For he wil geue no such credit to any mans writtinges what so euer he be as he doth to the scripture neither would he y t any mā woulde he that any man should so esteme his writtynges For al hys wryttynges dooe not please hym Therefore if they wil haue me beleue Augustines wordes they muste proue them true bye the scripture or else by some other probable and sure reasone that dissenteth not frome the truethe else maye not I beleue Austens wordes For thys he counselleth hym selfe But admytte Austens wordes to be true wythout anye contradicion What moughte then be sayed to it These be Augustines wordes I shoulde not beleue the Gospell onlesse the authoritye of the churche moued me Nowe I aske you what the authority of the churche is What cal you y e authorite of y e church Is it long continuance of time Thē was christes doctrine doubtful For the scribes and phariseis had that on theyr syde Or is it the greater number With lyke reasone we maye refuse Christes Gospell For many be called sayeth he and fewe elected Or else was it the consent of learned wise men All thys had the great byshopes and high pristes in christes time For they were great learned and wyse men But saynt Paule axeth wher be the wyse Wher are the scribes where are the disputers of the worlde Hath not god made the wysdome of the worlde foleishenesse Therfore let them declare vnto me the verie true authoritye of the churche And I make heare distinctiō of churches For Christe and the Apostles haue prophicied that theyr shal come false prophetes in Christes name and shal rise euen frō amonge our selues shall speake peruerse doctryne These men come in Christes name and saye they be christes chruch But I am assured they be not Christes true spouse For Lira writinge vpon Mathe sayth The church standeth not in men by the reason of spirituall powre or secular dignitie For many princes and many popes and other inferiour persones haue swarued frome the fayth Wherfore the church doth stande in those persones in whom is y e true knowledge and cōfession of fayth and veritie Therefore it must nedes by Lira his wordes consiste in the scriptures For the gyfte of fayeth and vnderstandeynge the veritye is the worckeynge of the holye spirite that confortour which the Lorde promised to those that beleue hys worde But because they alledge me Austens wordes I wyl answere thē with Austen him selfe wrytinge vpon the .lvii. Psal Wee speake true thynges sayth he which haue heard true thinges that the lorde sayth not that mā sayth It may be that man may lie it can not be that god should lye By the worde of trueth do I knowe Christe the same verie trueth By the worde of trueth do I knowe the church to be partaker of the trueth Nowe lette them scan these wordes and tell me where the true touchestonne is Then alledge they these wordes of Christe I haue yet muche to saye vnto you but you can not nowe beare it a waye Nowe be it when the spirite of the trueth commeth he shall leade you into all trueth etc. And agayne Manye other tokens dyd Iesus before hys his disciples Which are not writen in this boke Here staye they and go no farder for it foloweth But these are written that you shoulde beleue etc. But seynge we haue begone wyth Saynte Augustine we wyll ende wyth him He wryteth vpon this same place of Iohn and sayeth They were chosen and pycked out as many as were thought necessarie and sufficient for the saluacion of the faythfull Cirillus also affirmeth the same and sayeth more ouer that althynges that the wrytters thought sufficient boeth for the fayeth and beleue and also for y e cōuersaciō of men that wee myghte shyne wyth a ryghte and perfecte fayeth and wyth true workes and vertues and so come to the Kyngdome of heauen thorowe oure Lorde Christe be wryten sayeth he and therefore it is a newelye inuented in y e diuilles shop to saye that all the articles of oure christian fayeth can not be proued by scripture and mens tradicions bysyde the scripture be goode workes and please God These be Cyrillus workes And therefore sayeth Saynte Ambros in hys fourth boke of virgines All newe thynges that Christe hath not tought we lawfully condemne For vnto faythful men sayeth he Christe is the waye If Christe therefore haue not taught that we teache sayeth he we iudge it to be detestable Nowe let these holye fathers turne and tosse these olde holye doctours and let them fynde me out a touchston some other wher For these doctours say playnely the worde of God the holy scripture the word of truth is y e rule wherby Christes true church is ordered gouerned enstructed For whosoeuer sercheth findeth The holy gost faileth not such as seke him ther but to seke him in anye other place is no promise made As for theyr general counsayles that they sticke so muche vnto is but a weake foundacion For saynt Austine writtynge agaynst the donatistes sayeth Who is it that knoweth not the holy canonical scriptures boeth of the olde and newe testamente to be conteined within certayne limettes and boūdes And that they be so put before al the wrytinges of bishopes y t shal come afterward that it can not be doubted at all neyther can we be deceyued of the whether it be true or whether it be ryght and good or not what soeuer is knowen to be writen in them But al other wrytynges of byshopes or else which either haue writtē or shal write after the confirmacion of the cananicall wrytynges maye be reprehended both by the wordes or wyse sentēce of some more knoweynge man in that matter as well as by the sage authorite

place After this will I poure out my spirite saieth Ioel vpon all fleshe and your sonnes and daughters shal prophecie your olde m●n shal dreame dreames and your yonge men shall se visions Yea in those dayes I wil poure out my spirite vpon maidens and seruaūtes ct Nowe therefore seynge that S Peter affirmeth after the Prophete Esay that al fleshe is grasse and al y e glorye of mā is as y e floure of grasse the grasse withereth and the flower falleth a waye but the worde of oure God abydeth for euer I woulde exhorte in you ryght worshippefull syr all men frome the hygheste to the loweste to cleaue faste to the word of god For it wyl come to passe that who soeu●r calleth vpon the name of the Lorde shall be saued Who eeuer defende you Amen ☞ Your humble and fayethful at your commaundement Phillip Nicolles ¶ Here foloweth the copie of a letter writtyn to master Chrispyn chanone of Excester concernynge thre questians put furth in hys sermon wherby he entended to declare all them heretickes that would Gods word to be the touch stone IT chaunced me worshipful maister Chrispen to be at your sermō preached at Marledon the .xxiiii. Daye of marche laste paste at the monethes mynde of maister Otes Gylberd In whiche sermon amonge other thynges I remembre you enuied Luther verie sore onelye because he woulde haue the scripture to be the touch stone or triall of al other doctrines And calling Luther as it were into disputacions wyth al his disciples you put furth three questians whyche be these Fyrst if ther rose any heresies or dissentions before the Gospel was written as ther dyd in dede betwene Simō Magus and Simō Peter and ouer the circumsicion aske Luther hys disciples whoe nowe shall discusse the matter and whoe shoulde be the touche stone to trie the mattier The Gospell can not for it was not then wrytten The second questian is If one shoulde denye Mathewes Gospel or say Mathewe wrote it not how can it be proued by scripture It can not you say for scripture speaketh not of it The thyrd questiā dyd deceiue the ignorante people which haue litle or no knowledge which is If ther be dissension or strife aboute the vnderstandeynge of the scriptures and both alledge scripture as the Areans dyd whoe brought to places of scripture for y e defence of theire errour in suche case you aske whoe shal be iudge or by whō shall this be determined Or rather to vse your veri wordes wher is Luthers touch ston The scripture can not be touche stone you saye for boeth bringe forth scripture Wherefore ther must nedes be an other touch stone Where is Luthers now quoth you What answer can be made to these questians For Luthers touch ston wyll not serue Your answer was ther fore that Luther must gyue place and saye wyth you that it is the holye gost that must be touchston Thus you triumphed vpon Luther and hys disciples meaneinge by Luthers disciples suche I suppose as holde thys opinion as though you had ouer come thē that they coulde answere nothing Thys is easye to do when a mā hath all the talke hym selfe But for as muche as you wyshed Luther there at your sermon or some of his disciples to answere to your questians I thynke verelye you wylbe contented to heare a pore man answere though yet but simplye But I do you to wyt that I am none of Luthers disciples for I knowe not Luther But that I thynke hym to be a man as you be and therefore of hym selfe a lyer But if Luther spake the truth I woulde beleue him as sone as you or any other that speake the truth For the trueth by the whiche I meane gods worde can not be spoken wyth out holye gooste if it be spokē to the glorye of God But in dede you or any other maye wyckedlye alledge the scripture of your selfe wythout the spirite to the defaceinge of the glorie of god and hinderaunce of hys worde as the deuyll dyd to Christe Mathe. iiii But I wyl resorte to the questians ▪ wyth thys protestacion that if I haue by any meanes mysse reported your wordes or other wyse vnderstanded them then you ment I hertelye desire you that you wyll charitably infourme me what were your questians what ye ment in them and howe you lyke thys my rude answere In so doinge ▪ I wyll be confirmable to your counsayle or else I wyll shewe you my mynde why I ought not Nowe to your fyrste questian whyche is thys If ther arose any dissention of heresie before the gospell was writen as it happened in dede betwene Simō Magus and Simon Peter Also ouer the circumsicion where had ben then the touche stone To this questiā by your leaue mayster Chripyne I wyll in this maner answer wyth Luther and say the scripture must be the touch stone If you saye it was not written I answer The worde was in the begyninge You wyl saye that Christe came accordynge to the scripture to finishe a newe testament whiche he cōfirmed and sealed wyth his bloude and when the newe was come the olde vanished awaye as Saynte Paule affirmeth to the Hebrues And you wyll saye peraduenture that Luther also meaneth the newe testa mente whiche was not written when the questian of circumsicion was moued wherefore it coulde not be the touche stone To make many wordes about this questian in my cōceyt wer but losse of time But I aske you Maister Chrispine what difference is betwene scripture written and scripture spoken if boeth be scripture You wyl graunte I am sure that Peter Paul and Iames wordes wer scripture when they preached or taughte the Gospell Then if anie man had asked for scripture it mought haue ben answerd Go to Peter Paul Iohn wyth thother Apostles For theyr preaching and coūsayle was scripture So lacked not at that tyme Luthers tuchestone for the Apostles wryttinges and preachinges agreed and all was scripture Wherefore thys questian is sufficientlye answered to the worthynesse of it To your second questian which is It any man should denye Mathwes Gospell you aske howe it coulde be proued by scripture that Mathew wrote it To this I answere that if it be agreinge to the other scriptures and dissent in nothinge from it what daynger is it to call it Mathewes Gospell who so euer wrote it And though you coulde denye Mathewes Gospell to be Scripture yet there is Scripture For Marke Luke and Iohns Gospell Peter Paule and Iohns Epistles be scripture But I doubt not you wyll graūt Mathewes Gospel to be scripture But you wil aske me how I know it I answere by the reporte of the elders holye fathers mother holye churche Howe saye you nowe Haue I answered you wel Doth not thys answere please you I thynke yes But if I shoulde are the turkes howe they knowe that Mahomete was an holye prophet whoe deuised and caused to be deuised the Alcaron what