agreing with our frayle condition and nature But such is our vanitye not guided by the spirite of God to aduaunce our state and calling aboue our degree and condition by the setting on of our enemy Sathan Vitell. NOw I doe maruell why you be so enuious agaynst that name HN. wil you not permit the Lord to geue names to his ministers according to the worke that he will accomplish by them or doe you think that the names are geueÌ„ to the outward creature then are you much deceiued No my beloued the seruauntes of the Lord are children of Loue ascribe no names of holynes as dew to the outward person For they know that they are but fraile eaâ—then vessels beare their names according to their vertues whiche God hath geuen them and submit them humbly and obediently as serviceable instrumâ—ts to serue the lord their neiâ—hbour therfore I would councell you to looke iâ—to your selues marke what 〈◊〉 good thinking spirites rule 〈◊〉 wherethrough ye blaspeme diâ—piâ—e dishonor the tâ—ple or tabernaâ—lâ— of the Lord. Answere AGaynst the two letters of HN. I am not enuyous only against such doctrine as he doth teach contrary to the scripture whereby you as an Ipocrite haue seduced the people and led theÌ„ into error and corrupt wayes to hinder the Lord of his purpose it resteth not in mortal man If HN. be a name signifiyng some office why hath neither he nor you manifested y same but plead ignorance that it signifieth some hâ—e misterye which you nor we know not now as HN. is a name geueÌ„ by the Lord as you affirme according to the worke that he will establish by him so doth his fellow Elder â—idelitas looke for lyke credit whose wordes I will repeate as they be written in his booke called A distâ—nciâ—e declaration of the requiring of the Lord c. In the First chap. 1â— seâ—ion â—e hath these wordes following but fire or bend alwayes all your sight oâ— me Fidelitas and consider how that the Lord hath choseÌ„ me euen froÌ„ my very byrth out of my Mothers wombe to the obedience of the requiring of his word For that I with you and yee also with me according to the requiring of the testimonyes of his gracious word should become vnited therein and so to growe of one vniforme being with ech other in the same c. You shew vs in the 29. sexion that through HN. his priestes office the Lord will receaue all men in mercy but for Fidelitas office as yet we know not what it is and in deede there were neuer any that would challenge such names as these elders doe affirme that they signifie their office and calling certayne players vpon stages would declare thâ—â—r names representinâ— câ—rtâ—ine â—eâ—â—ueâ— to seâ— out their matters somâ— wâ—â—e callâ—d truâ—th some hope some â—aithfulnesse but in sadnes to set â—owne such names to siâ—niâ—â—e 〈◊〉 which thâ— Lord as yâ—u affirme will accomplish by them is meere impâ—etie But where the Lord geueth names it appeareth by their calling and such aâ—e their workes and sayinges as geâ—eth testimony sâ—fficient to their vocation â—ut â—our HN. câ—n shew no sufficient markes wherby any but seduced persoâ—s should geue credite to his wordes onely a paâ—nted shew and barren heaping vp of woâ—des darkly appliâ—d without conclusion or sence sauing you and such lâ—ke that finde great misterâ—es in his sentences carying such credit among you as is not seeming Christians The Lord gaue names to sundry vnder the law as Isaack Sampson Iohn â—aptist c. But doth it follow that HN. is a name geuen by the lord Proue vnto vs that the Lord hath established his name your friuolous cauill that HN. signifieth 〈◊〉 will not serue such bables are scarce sufficiâ—Ì„t to meâ—k children therefore you must deuise some better 〈◊〉 Some of your Familye haue written that HN. signifieâ—h some greater matter then either you â–ª or wee can tell of such incertentyes hoâ— you auâ—uch of your HN. For vncertayne doctrine must haue certayne â—idden misteryes to amase the heares mindes or els no doubt â–ª the drift of doâ—â— me would easely be espied Therefore you must deâ—ise some hidden sâ—â—retes whereby to cary a shew of profâ—â—â—d mâ—tter That names are geuen by men in these dayes and not by God there is no doubt or question but you would sayne haue HN. to be a name geuen of God to signifie a calling you geue vs no reasâ—n so to thinke but woulde haue vs beleue it is so because you say so then were we vayn heads and vncâ—nstant mindes For we depende so stricktly vpon the scrâ—ptures of God that no spirite no 〈◊〉 nor no Angel teaching other 〈◊〉 can be a coâ—ted or beleued amongst vs so ceâ—tayn is our faith and so inuincible is that truth which by the Scriptures we held In that you tâ—e Children of y loue ascribe no names of holynes vnto the outward person it is a mistery we aâ—e ignorant of we simply geue names to our children in baptisme without signification of holynes touching the Inâ—ant the names may signifie holynes but that the person carrying the same name shall be indewed therwith that are we ignorant of If you haue such hidden misteries among you it were good the world should not be ignorant of it We commit the successe and euent of such hidden secrets to the lord Of enuyous good thinking spirites that rule in vs you councel vs to looke to without your councell God willing we meane to follow the councel of the Lord our God which willeth vs not to beleue euery spirite c. And yet I neuer heard before of enuyous good thinking spirits But such a grace you haue not only to forge new doctrine but new names of Spirits also In speaking against HN. you wold insinuate that we blaspheme despise and dishonoâ— the temple or tabernacle of the lord Doth it follow necessarily that they that speake against HN. blaspheme despise c. And is he the temple or tabernacle of the Lord vndoubtedly we are all deceaued then For I assure you we take him to be an erroneous spirit a fantastical hed possessed with pride of minde Sathan blowing the belowes The Lord working therby the exercise of his church If you haue other opinioÌ„ of HN. warrant or grouÌ„d so to do haue you none But beâ—ause you will not beâ—eeue the truth therefore are strong illusions sent whereby you might be deceaued Looke into the holy Scriptures with a more single minde and it shall be easily perceiued Vitell. MOrâ—ouer you say that the illuminat â—lders sin not I would you knew what you say forth you should vnderstand that they do lord and preuaile with God and Câ—â—ist ouer the sinne and haue no pleasure to commit sinne therfore they teach men the godly obedience whereby they might be frends with God but they that haue pleasure in sinne are the seruants of â—inne and are enemies to the Lord. Answere I Haue sayd that the
Lord. Answere I Am offended in zeale of Gods 〈◊〉 agaynst your generall doctrine wheâ—of this is a part that none may teach the truth but y illuminat â—lders Your HN. further sayth Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deâ—eitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminate men out of the imagination or riches of theire own knowledge out â—f their learnednes of the scriptures bâ—ing forth institute prâ—ach and teaâ—h c. Now looke wel and behold whether HN. condemne not all others but his illumined Elders who are Godded with God c. which in dâ—ede I haue rightly tearmeâ— proud speaches such as neuer any godly wryter in Christ his church durst euer speake or write â—ou would colour the wordes by the ducth tongue saying they be not straÌ„ge speches in that language but certainly a strange and monsterous doctrine is therby taught and far disagreeing from the written word and far â—nbeseeming any Christian. And here if I should dilate what a meaning you haue in these wordes Godded with God I should increase this treatise ouer much yet I will somewhat touch it as you and your Author haue expressed it in wryting I will vse your own speach as followeth See and marke my beloued in the beginning when God had made all things well thâ— was the Lord one Lord of his kingdome and one God of his worke and there was also no more but one God and one man and they were one â–ª and had in all one ordeâ— beinâ— â–ª â—nd nature For God was all that the man was and the mâ— was all that God wâ—â— Thus monstrously and blasphemously you haue taught god and man to be one in nature now compare this godhead with God or incorporated to God and easily it is perceiued that you meane God and man to be one this were worthye to be buryed in silence but that now the patrons defeÌ„d such blasphemies it is tyme to cleare the Church of Christ that such proude and Luciferian voyces shoulde not bee heard or once named yet this man will proue that HN. cannot erre and none that know the truth can condeÌ„ne HN. It is a pitiful thing that men hauing anye sence or feeling of God or godlines should so vaynely wryte or publish to y world such absurd horrible doctrine neuer heard of before and yet the Aucthor must needes be a prophet and his doctrine to proceede from the Lord nowe in despising thys and the like proud speach of HN of necessitie I am counted to despise y Lord thus still you drawe HN. hys matters that who so speaketh or wryteth agaynst hym be wryteth and speaketh agaynst God whether will you exalt your Auâ—thor ye vnbeleuers surely aboue all that is called God but wyth your father you will be cast headlong so low where to late you may bewaâ—l your contempt of God and godlinesse looke in tyme to this and the like part of your doctrine oh ye Ipocrites Vitell. FOr asmuch as the Lord hath seen it for good to bryng foorth hys most holy seruice of loue in the duch language although it seeme grosse and barbarous to you so shall it from henceforth be counted a language amoÌ„g those languages wherin the Lord hath erected his law and the priestes office thereof and the seruice of the beliefe with hys priests office Like maner shall the most holy seruice of loue be brought foorth through the Lorde hys elected minister HN. with his priests office where through the Lorde will receaue all men in mercy whiche humble them vnto hys word of grace according to the requiring of hys lawe and ordinaunces be erected and remayne from generation to generation for euermore for loue peace and righteousnesse shall remayne in eueâ—lalastingnes Aunswere THe Dutch language must nowe be accounted amongst those learned tongues wherein the law and gospell were written and this he auoucheth the Lord hath seene it for good that it shal be euen so you now take your authors office in hande For you Prophesye that from hencefourth this shall come to pas the law the seruice of the beliefe and the Priestes office must be brought forth in y Dutch Language I cannot but say notwithstanding your false Prophesye that the Dutch Language you vse especially in such straunge inuented wordes and confused compositioÌ„ is barbarous sith that â—â—rtayne other of your bookes that haue learned to speake latine a toung by nature propriety plaine copious and eloquent are also new fangled in name and barbarous in phrase of purpose to be blasphemous in doctrine which you nor any of your Familyâ— haue as yet as I thinke translated they want a certayn father and therefore haue no certayn names but borrowed as Theologica Germanica Augustinus Elutherius c. Their new deuised latin wordes are such as Aegoitas Ipsietas c. Their doctrine is that Adam is nothing els but vetus homo and Christus is nothing els but Nouus homo The history of Christ his birth hys miracles passion death resurrection c. they regard not but allegor is vppon euery part thereof most daungerously and vngodly teachingâ— vncertayne significations without coÌ„â—ort making no accompt of the history Confidently to beleue the truth of the history they say is to abide in the letter which killeth Those bookes contaynâ— playne doctrine which the Libertynes hold and also the doctrine of perfection whiche you hold to be in this life â–ª but especially this principle that when this perfection whiche you dreame of is come to the man then is he illuminate and deiffied and God in him hominified so that in all his actions wordes and thoughtes he can no more coÌ„mit sinne or anye euill then God or Christ can commit sinne or euill the reason is rendred because God or Christ dwelleth in the man and hath thâ— gouernment of all hys actions thoughtes c. And when ye are pressed in conference to shewe that man thus hauing Christ dwelling in him if he at any tyme doe bring foorth any euill that in resemblaunce maâ— appeare as sinnes they are not so to beâ— accompted of say you because Christ dwelleth in the man which doctrine is wicked false and diuelish as I haue often tolde your fellowes in other places Christ dwelleth in vs by the participation of his holye spirite and guydeth our actions els should wee haue no strength to resiste sathan or flesh nor the intisements of the world but taketh not away thereby our humayne imperfections but he keepeth lustes and all wickednes that they raigne not ouer vs or rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs yet wee ceasse not to be sinners or commit sinne that is your owne doctrine but hath no foundation or warrant in the worde Other bookes also are of such lyke name and doctrine as Elidad and Fidelitas whereof I fearâ— me that you were the traÌ„slator The doctrin wherof I meane not to touch in this place onely this is to be noted that the parties
God and righteousnes and truth from Ierusalem But it doth not follow that we knew not these testimonies but by HN. his ministerye before his new doctrine was broched the Church of Christ was not ignoraunt of that corner stone Christ Iesus of his holy priesthod of his holy sacrifice these thinges were truly understood and knoweÌ„ although HN. had neuer written Touching Christ his comming as a theefe we know it is ment of his second comming although you would gladly haue it to be the comming of HN. with his new blasphemyes The watchmeÌ„ vpon mount â—phraim are the teachers of Christ his Church of which number your HN. is none his cryes are from Flaunders and not from Sion You place two speciall vertues Loue and Truth as a face and â—ositenaunce to your doctrine but if wee should examine the same by the word of the Lord then your Loue is but pretenced For your Loue should be knowen by louing the Lord Iesus who loued vs first But the loue of HN. hath besotted your hartes who by his doctrine is enemy vnto our Lord Iesus who onely is to be beloued And for truth you onely vse the word barely without substauÌ„ce what trewth you vse in this your libell will appeare by reading to euery indifferent minde if your Loue and trueth be no better then is here expressed then I may well affirme that little Loue and small truth is to be found in this your libell Vitell. BEhold I ley in Sion a stone of foundation a proofe stone a costly corner stone to a fast foundation who so beleueth in him let him not hast For I will make the iudgement to a measure lyne â—nd the righteousnes a ballaunce Esa. 28. b. Luke â–ª â—0 b. Rom. 9. c â–ª Pet. â— â— A falsâ— ballance is abhomination vnto the Lord but a full weight pleaseth 〈◊〉 â—â—ll â–ª Prou. 11. â— A â—ight ballance â–ª and waight is of 〈◊〉 Lord â–ª and all powndeâ— in the sack â–ª are his workes Prou. 16. Should I sayth the Lord Iustifye the vnright ballance and the false waightes in the sacke wherethrough their rich men doe much vnright and their anhabitâ—untes deale with lyes and haue deceitful tongues in their throats Mich. 6. b. 〈◊〉 â–ª Therefore will I begin to plague you and make you desolate because of your sinnes Miche 6. Awake now all and repent and remember to be obedient vnto the law and commaundementes of the Lord to the end that ye in the day of the Lord be not found intangled or held captiue of your sinnes nor plagued with the plague of the vngodly Whosoeuer now in the 〈…〉 Lord will escape the plagues of the vngodly and bide preserued inâ—the godlynesâ— â–ª Let him beleve in Iesus Christâ—y eiâ—en asâ— the 〈◊〉 sayth and turne him about 〈…〉 of a childe and apply him to be obedient vnto the requiring of the word of Iesu Christ and of the doctrine of his lorâ— â–ª And so let euery one come and assemble him to the mount Sion to the cominaltyâ— of Saynteâ— and to the stone the fast foundatioÌ„ which is laid of God in Sion and build him thereon to a spirituall house in all loue and coÌ„cord and to an holy priesthod For to offer spirituall oblacioÌ„s which are acceptable vnto God through Iesus Christ. 1. Pet. 2. I through the grace of God which is geuen to me haue layd the foundation lyke a wise architect and an other buildeth thereon but let euery one take heed how he buildeth theron For an other foundation can no man ley then there is leyd which is Iesus Christ. 1. Con. chap. 3. b. This description of Sion my beloued haue I writteÌ„ 〈◊〉 geue thâ—â—by the louers of truth to vndâ—â—stand whether they have read any of the bokes of HN or noâ— which are named the most holy seruice of louâ— that the scriptures which the Lord hath set forth through his elected miâ—ist HN. are brought forth out of Sion according to the promises of the lord For it is written that the Lord will bring forth his loue out of Sion his word out of Ierusalem c. Also that the same HN â–ª hath taught all men to repaire to his mount Sion and builde thereon the which is in his works declared at large as is before rehersed Answere HEre is set down a large description of Sion of the corner stone foundation and many places of holy scripture heaped together but to no other end that can be perceiued but to amaze the Reader that your doctrine should thereby beare a face and countenaunce of trueth and come from Sion Ierusalem but we tel you truely that your new vpstart heresies with your new termes are not testimonies of Sion but from Bethell Dan Gilgall your masking shew is now discouered your vizards pluckt of Your painted words are opeÌ„ to the world your suttle â—leightes made manifest here are many places quoted but none applied If we shal assemble to SioÌ„ as you require then must we leue your HN. your Family For by Sion is vnderstood the doctrin of the prophets Apostles and Euangelistes from which the Lord assisting vs we will neuer depart and whatsoeuer doctrine may be proued by theseâ— we reuereÌ„tly embrace gladly receaue what doctrine soeuer is contrary here unto that we reiect cast of of which number the doctrine of HN. and his Familye are because it agreeth not with that Prophets Apostles nor Euangelistes You geue the louers of truth to vnderstand whether they haue red any câ— H N. his bookeâ— or not 〈◊〉 so that there may be â—onets of truth although they neuer red H N. nor his bookes as you grauÌ„te this vnto vs now so you will deny the same hereafter as shall appeare you would still haue vs beléeue that H N. teacheth no doctrine but builded vpon Syon as appeares by his workes his bookes are to be seene his doctrine is out of his own imaginatioÌ„ being deluded by an erroneus spirit to disquyet the Ioyfull proceedinge of Christ his gospell and to exercise his church according to this saying necessâ—â—st haereses esse c. It is necessary that heresies be c. There was neuer heresse in the world but would dispute argew and reason and deny no conference with any but this HN. thinketh it sufficient that he tell his Familye that he hath learned his doctrine by gods owne mouth and no man may speake against him nor his doctrine but by and by he is condemned for a blasphemer of the holy ghost So sharpe and quick are these Elders of the familye in iudgement it is tyme for you to helpe your decaying state with some face shew of wordes For your Familye doubt not doe espy your poysoned doctrine which lay hid from them vnder your darke speach and vnaccostomed phrases his workes declare his doctrine to come from his owneacute braine by illusion of Sathan and none geueth testimony of him but himselfe and you his deceiued
with all to deceaue all How do you obserue the politik ordinaunce of the Maiestrate in printing your bookes and publishing them to the Queenes subiectes contrary to the law made in that behalf your obedience câ—nsisteth in wordes but not in 〈◊〉 â—hâ—refore with more truth you might saye we will not be obedient to Maiâ—strates In that you coÌ„descend â—oâ— iâ— anye thing contrary to God c. Therin you say well but I would you were found herein true of your promise for then your HN. and hys doctrine with hys prophesies should not haue such credit amoÌ„g you as appeareth if his doctrine be not directly agaynst the Lorde our God and hys commaundementes I apeale vnto the iudgement of all God his Children that shall reade these conferences You accompt none vngodly but such as blaspheme the Lord and despise his most holy seruice of loue Whome you accompt blasphemers before is declared iâ— any speake aagaynst your HN. or your Family of loue Ipso faâ—to he is a blasphemer then all the worlde which doe despise your Familye are blasphemers your conclusion must needes fall out euen so whereby appeareth what reuerent opinion you haue of any and of al that are not of your Family if you learned this of HN. consider better of it for very shame of y worldâ— if no reuereÌ„ce nor feare of God can moue you You confesse that there is no man righteous vntill the Lord deliuer him froÌ„ hys vnrighteousnes but howe we are deliuered you wee greatly vary we according vnto the holy Scripture do acknowledge Christ to be our righteousnes which he hath wrought perfectly in him selse which by fayth wee apply to our vnrighteousnes hys obedieÌ„ce his loue his pacience c. we by fayth apply to our disobedience to our hatred to our impacience c. all what was in Christ is made ours by grace yet still wee in our earthen vessels are coâ—rupt sinâ—ull and vâ—yde oâ— anye suche vertues as the law requireth But â—ou on the contrarye affirme that by Christ working in vs by hys spirite we are made righteous and so clensed from our vnrighteousnes that we are chaunged into hys perfection so that in all our actions wordes and thoughts nothing can â—low oâ— pâ—ocâ—ede from vs but sucâ—e as procâ—ede â—rom Christ because we are guyded by the same spirite but whether you or wee speake truth let the holy Scriptures beare witnesse then may be say that the Lord is his righteousnes it is very true but how and in what manner the Lord may be sayd to be our righteousnes is to be vnderstoode we acknowledge y hee in hys owne person is our righteousnes and sanctificatioÌ„ but you will haue hys righteousnes wrought in you by his spirtie the difference coÌ„sisteth in the maâ—er we acknowledge in him all strength all piety all obedience and in our selues all weakenes all vngodlinesse and all disobedience but you will needes haue all in all to be in vs whiche to much blemisheth hys glory and triumph if we shoulde also in our persons triumph our triumph standeth not in doing but in beleeuing in him which did Therefore as you haue charged vs wrongfully to be aduocats for sinne so may we rightly call yâ—u Patrons for our corrupt rotten and earthen vessels Vitell. MOre you are offended at the confession of the Familye of Loue vnderstand the matter well that there is no man coÌ„pelled therevnto but if any one be wounded or trobled in his coÌ„science then he may to his coÌ„fort make his euel thoughts or els what manifest vnto a priest or Elder aâ—cording vnto the counsell of the holy scripture Also I thinke it is an ordinauÌ„ce in the Church of England that if any one be troubled in minde he shall come and aske counsell of the person or minister and I thinke he must then make manifest his thoughtes c. And the Catholiâ—k ReligioÌ„ holdeth thought word and deede but there are many that will compell men to deâ—lare their thoughts â–ª whiâ—h 〈◊〉 nâ—â—ther pâ—iestes nor Ministers of the â—ord Aunswere TOuching your coÌ„fessioÌ„ which â—ou acknowledge to be voluntary and not coaâ—ted I haue signified my dislyking your Auâ—thor HN. doâ—h say it is expedient that they of his Familye make maniâ—est all that hath bin coÌ„mitted both what it is wherevnto our nature draweth vs vnto here it apppeareth â–ª if you follow your Author directly he leueth the matter not so voluntary as of necessitye And this must be done as you say vnto a pâ—iest or Elder to please the Papitles I thinke you haue added this worde priest but we tell you that such manner of confession the scriptures allow not of if any be wounded in conscieÌ„ce he may to his comfort repayre to any godly or learned preacher â—o shew his griefe and to receaue counsell and comfort to his consolation by the scripture agaynst the prick of conscience or the law which troubleth many miÌ„s mindes but that of necessitye he must make manifest all thoughts all what our nature doth incline vnto there is no warrant what ordinaunce is in the Church of England you haue not shewed but that he must of necessitye make manifest his thoughts it is vntrue it is left frâ—â— onely by way of perswasion men are moued to repaire in such extremitye to their learned and godly pastors and by no ordinaunce but this appeareth that you accompt not your selfe as any member of this Church of England no maruell for you holde it more safe to professe HN. his Familye then to be an obedient child of Christ his Church Whereof England is a speciall part What the Catholick religion holdeth touching confession is no cloke to shaddow your dealinges with all for we tell both you and them that such a confession as both you and they hold is not agrâ—eing with trueth The Papistes vrge men and accompt them heretickes that deny it and you hold it as an expedient thinge neither haue you both any warrant so to doe Some doe compell men to declare their thoughtes which are neither priestes nor ministers as you affirme who they are you tell vs not yet I suppose you meane the coÌ„missioners who â—xamining your Familye touching their fayth and doctrine found them so suttle by your instructioÌ„s that in y end they required theÌ„ to declare their knowledge what they thought of their Author HN. and I thinke the Magistrate authorised by the Prince may in such cases require vs to maniâ—est what opinion we haue of any Author or what we thinke of him but you haue taught them to say we know him not and therefore to commend him or discommend him wee may not such sleightes you deuise wheÌ„ the Magistrats requireth a trueth at your handes and here is also declared your obedieÌ„ce to rulers your Elders are safe when the poore country people are brought before the Magistrates but when will any of you the â—lders come voluntarily and defend your doctrine and proue it good by souÌ„d argumeÌ„t it
acknowledge themselues to be felow Elders with the Elder HN. and magnifie his office and calling abouâ— measure and protest with great vehemency that such wonderfull workes as are brought forth through the same HN. could not be wrought unles the Lord God were with him And these strange names of their Elders do maruelously astonish our English people Elidad as I haue learned is an Hebruâ— word and signyfieth dilecâ—us Dei. the beloued of God which is a proper title belonging to our Sauiour Christ. This is my beloued sonne c. And that we generally are in him and by him beloued there is no dout so is be still the beloued And that some of their Elders name themselues Fidelitas so others that belike are not come to so high degree name theÌ„selueâ— Amatores Charitatis It is a world to see how these men delite in such vayne shewes of piety and thinke to get credite by these coloured meanes which to the godly seemeth ridiculous and too too fond And thus much coÌ„cerning the bokes in latin by occasioÌ„ of the Dutch wherin note this Christian Reader that wheras the Italian Pope would haue all in latin this other Pope and dutch Antichrist would haue all in Dutch as a predestinate tongue to open his prophesies and misteries of that Lord. All the quotations of holy scripture that HN. vseth to proue that he is rysen from the dead to iudge the world do proue in deede that Iesus Christ hath rysen from the dead must they therfore auouch HN. his resurrection See good Reader the presumptuous spirite of Sathan so setled in these for â—orne â—dames â–ª that through the eating of that forbidden fruite wherethrough they would become as god that is deiâ—â—ed they are wholy become sathanified or diuilyfied Strange names I confesse but very significant propeâ— for such strange Christians Was not Christ Iesus mightely declared to be God by the resurrection from y dead If this resurrection were the mightyest declaration or argument proofe that Christ was God iudge Christian Reader â–ª if HN. maketh not himself not only God but Christ and so the promised séede And in deede you your selfe Vitell haue affirmed him to be a Prophet before in thiâ— place you cal him a priest geue him also the name of a king and then is he Christ a new Messiaâ— for by his resurrection he maketh him selfe god Such an Antichâ—ist â— thinke should neuer haue beene heard of if that the Children of God had not beene warned in the gospell that many false Christes should come into the world and such dangerous dayâ—s that if it were possible the elect of God should be deceaued But blessed be God whâ— euer is ready to preserue his electe by Christ sâ— that perish in â—ecoiuable wayeâ— they shall not such a care hath the Lord ouer his Now HN. and his â—â—istes office shall appeare where through the Lord will receaue all men O impudent wretâ—hes haue we not a deliuerer euen the Lord Iesus who doth not onely receaue vs but continually protect vs and minister to vs all thinges both heauenly and earthly which are expedient for vs but will you blasphemously open your mouthes that wee shall be receiued by the Priestes office of your HN. No godly Christian can heare this without griefe What â—erogatioÌ„ is this to our merciful Lord and Sauiour that now a wretched man possessed with a lamentable spirite shall take vpon him his office and calling where through we shall be receaued Oh manisefâ—st impietye Oh exeâ—rable iniquitye which no patience can beare Seing you publishe â—uch doctrine in writing with deliberation what doctrine doe you teâ—ch in corners to your Family where no maÌ„â—are open hiâ— mouth agaynst any blasphemy that you doe vtter â–ª In such credâ—â— are you â—â—ept but wo worth y hed that seekes to 〈◊〉 the simple with such horrible doctrine Your 〈◊〉 â—ayd that I know not HN. but as it was sayd to Serinthus the heretique I know him to be the first begotten sonne of SathaÌ„ But the Lord hath geuen his Church the spirite of trueth to direâ—â— them from all such vâ—yne boastes of iniquitye So lykewise O Lord geue thy holy spirit to the simple seduced in y Familye â–ª that they may behold the blasphemyes which their Elders in wickednes doe teach agaynst the son of God Christ Iesus Vitell. FVrthermore you write very vntruly of HN. where you say that no man be he neuer so learned or godly can vnderstand or interpreat the scriptureâ— for I am sure there are no such wordes written by him therfore I must needes say they are lyes and false iudgementes with wrong interpretatioÌ„s almost all what you write of him and of his workes and euen so are most of your interpretationâ— which you alledge of Christ and his Apostles doctrine For if so be they I meane HN. his bookes might be perused of vnparciall Iudges then your iudgement would be found euen lyke their iudgement which coÌ„demned Susanna but the Lord raysed vp Daniell which is the iudgement of God and deliuered the giltles vnto whome we commit our cause For he will iudge vprightly and reward euery one according to his deedes Aunsweâ—e WHat HN. hath pronouÌ„ced of all other mens vnderstaÌ„ding of the scripture I will here agayne set down that the reader may iudge who is in the lye Therefore it is assuredly all false and lyes seducing and deceitfull what the vngodded or vnilluminated men out of the imagination or of their owne knowledge and out of the learnednes of the scriptures bring forth institute preach and teach they preach in deede the letâ—er and the imagination of their knowledges but not the word of the liuing God. And in an oâ—her place â—o diuâ— â–ª codem cap. 〈◊〉 theÌ„ esteme themselues so holy as they will they are a false Christianitye and Diuells sinagogue or schole c. with many other places to lyke effect so that HN. still teacheth his Familye that it is geueÌ„ to the Familye of Loue to vnderstand the secretes thereof Now let the indiffereÌ„t reader iudge whether HN. exempt not all but him and his from the true vnderstanding of the scriptures all men which are not godded with God he tearmeth fleshly minded and earthly in cogitations and intreateth whole chapters of such men he sayth That a fleshly and earthly man out of his naturall and scripture learned vnderstaÌ„ding hath not any sight or knowledge at all thereof he iâ— so vtterly voyd of the same that he cannot vnderstand the smallest title thereof much lesse expound the same according to the trueth to an other c. So that it appeareth pâ—ayne that nono but HN. and his illuminat Elders can vnderstand the samâ— â–ª â—â—ccording to trueth You say if HN. his bookes might be perused of vnpartiall Iudges then should his case be found as innocent as Susanna Those vnparcial Iudgeâ— that you would haue are you and your fellow Elders in the Familye For I doe truely affirme that no
AN Answere vnto a wicked infamous Libel made by Christopher Vitel one of the chiefe English Elders of the pretended Family of Loue Maintaining their doctrine carpingly answeringe to certaine pointes of a boke called the displaing of the Fam. Aunswered by I. Rogers AT LONDON Printed by Iohn Daye dwelling ouer Aldersgate Anno. 1579. Cum Priuilegio Regiae Maiestatis To the right honourable Syr Frauncis VValsingham chiefe Secretary vnto the Queenes most excellent Maiesâ—y and of her honorable Councell Grace and Peace in Christ our Lord. HAuing before this set forth a small tretise displaing a sort of men in this our countrey of England imbracing an Author vnder two letters H and N. about sixe monethes agoe I haue receaued since from the same persons sundry letters contayning matter against the doctrine publickly taught in the church of England and answering certain matters contayned in the sayd booke called The displaying of the Family of Loue which answeres some I haue put in print the rest remayn wherof this Libel is one of the chiefest and as the same doth witnesse is made and compiled by one of the chiefe of that sect and the only man which was the occasion that any of HN his doctrine became conuersant with our natiue Countrey people a thing greatly to be lamented The name of the party is Christofer Vitel sometime a Ioyner of London and infected with that infamous doctrine of Airius â—0 yeares agoe â–ª whose credâ—â—e among the pretended Family of Loue is very great and therefore I haue vsed more diligence in answering the same Being Right honorable unboldened to present the same vnto your honor vpoÌ„ vew and tast of your good inclination towardâ—s the true Church of Christ and the purging out of the same all disorders and discords that therin groweth or which blemisheth that beloued bride as much as in your honor lyeth And if herein I shall seeme ouer bold or presumptuous considering my rude and vnlearned capacity I haue many examples which may serue for my excuse For where should men publishing error seeke defence but vnder the name and protection of such as through the Lords dispensatioÌ„ and gift of singular wit doe vnderstand falshood at the first sight and haue authoritie to correct the same and hate error and corruption of a zeale to the glory of god and a care of true Religion and by rate goodnes of nature doe loue the truth and also sufficiently adorned with corage to defend the same Accept therefore most honorable these my rude labors in â—â—norable part and geue iudgement where trueth lyeth Accept my serâ—iceable hart to further the glory of christ his church and not the simple vtterance and smal skil with les learning as by the handling appeareth Also consider the prouideÌ„ce of our God which ruleth his childreÌ„ by his beck and hath appointed your honor as a speciall Patrone in his Church to heare the griefe and gronings thereof and to vnderstand and see that truth be not defaced troden downe or spurned at by heretickes or wicked Atheistes which the mixed Church is too too full of And as the Lord hath made your honor to feele the sweetnes of his sonne our Sauiour So I am perswaded that you bende your singular care and deep consideration that this our countrey of England might be free from hereticks deprauers of Christ his glory And if it might please your honor to consider the root and ground froÌ„ whence this strange doctrin grew the practises and meanes by which it is maintained and supported And by this litle sayd by me consider with all what might be sayd against this doctrine of H N. by men of knowledge and skill And finding the roote nothing els but singularitie ambition pride and carnall liberty The shore and pillers that vphold it wrong application of the holy Scriptures counterfaite shewes of piety c. your honor shall perceiue I dout not how litle true reason these men haue or sound argument to proue the particulars of their doctrine the body and substance being found in deede but a lumpe of olde worne heresies newly hatcht by H N. Fidelitas and â—lidad men come out of the cloudes as they would haue the world beleeue And as this doctrine hath increased and spred it selfe in many shires of this Realme So if I should declare what euent doth follow in many places it were scarce credible The fountaine or foundation thereof is the opinion that these men haue that they keepe the law of God in euery point as he requyreth â—er of commeth their doctrine of perfection attayned vnto in this life and as they tearme it the beginning of immortality then being made perfecte they imagine themselues to be Godded with God or incorporate to God I will vse their own tearmes with whom God in one being of his spirit is hommisied or become man. Now hauing once planted this doctrine what Sathan can worke with this perswasion is easily perceiued For when this doctrine is once beleeued that their Elders caÌ„not sinne and whatsoeuer they commit it cannot be sinne because they are guyded by the spirite And when all feare to offend or conscience of sinne is excluded to all boldnes and liberty to liue after our liking a very window is opened As there is no reason to maintayn this nor truth to vphold this So it is very necessary that the simple people should be warned to beware of this so suttle a doctrine which they like very well of because their teachers and Elders vnder preteÌ„ce of plausible precepts delyuered to the simple at the first taste of a godly life which asore any thing they must imbrace with many shewes of mortificatioÌ„ TheÌ„ must they grow to the manly oldnes in the loue which is that perfection which they dreame of But the secret part of their doctrine is hid from the most parte And all their bookes are not made coÌ„mon to all as containing to strong meate for weake stomaches therfore their glas of righteousnes few must looke into least their whole vanity and corruption should be espyed That booke therefore is a rare birde among this Family And this suttlety doth Sathan worke to deceaue the simple to keep certaine secret misteries and doctrine to worke admiration in the hartes of deceaued people Right honorable I haue set downe this part of their doctrine as a tast what other matters they maintayne by perusing this small treatâ—se shall easely be espied how their chiefe Elder HN. is exalted and called a Prophet and that his prophesies shal be proued true and also they account of HN. in office to be a priest and say that through his priestes office God will receaue all men to mercy so that our only Lord Sauiour is smally accounted of his offices are bestowed vpon HN. These thinges are too too absurd Right honorable and worthy to be buryed in silence had not SathaÌ„ raysed vp his impes to trouble his Church with these blasphemies agaynst which I
haue bent that poore skill and force I haue to displey these men with their doctrine There are many Right honorable that could better more learnedly haue confuted their doctrine but it is so vayne and childish that simple soules and meanely exersized in holy scripture are sufficiently instructed by the Lord to manifest all their abhommations The simplier sort of these men I take to be such as haue a desire to serue the Lord and yet is their simplicitye caryed away by the Elder sort or stronger men conference in my opinion is the best way to helpe the simple which the Elder sort can noâ— away withall least their trecheryes should be espied â—dad one of their writers geueth theÌ„ such a precept in his booke intituled a fruitfull exhortation to the Family of Loue in â— sextion But ye shall not contend or dispute with the blasphemers and the tanglers about the scripture nor with the apostates or decliners from vs and our good doctrine or with the selfe conceited wife nor yet with any of all those that bring in variaunce and make breach besides our good doctrine of the seruice of Loue. It appeareth Right honorable by this prohibition of this Elder that conference and disputation is forbidden them especially the Elder sort but the noâ—ces which are not enterid into the secret partes of their doctrine but are caryed away with a shew of pietye and good lyfe which at the beginning is opened vnto theÌ„ with fly and suttle perswasions that nothing els is sought at their handes but how the man might be made persite in Christ Iesu but after once a step be made towardes them or a tast of this doctrin then bookes are bestowed vpon them which they must reade of HN. as his exhortation his dialog his â—pistles the exposition of the Lordes prayer with the Articles c. as they profite in these bookes harder to digest as the Prophesie of the spirite of Loue a declaration of the Masse the holy Lambe the Gospel or â—uangâ—ly of HN. c. last of all the glasse of righteousnes which few of this company haue the other bokes more riser printed as is supposed in Flasâ—ders and translated by this Libeller into English as he himselfe confesseth And here I craue pardon in that I haue bin ouerlong to trouble your honor with these repeticioÌ„s and I would to God that I had no occasion ministred once to name these persons nor this error then should Christ his Church nor no member in the same haue needed to bend their study to publish or manifest the same The Lord of mercy geue your honor all increase of fayth with the trueth of true pietye and continue in you a zeale of Christ his Church with a care y nothing but trueth be taught therein and that the contemners thereof may be put to silence so as our God may be glorified his people edified error and heresies subuerted trueth aduanced which the Lord God graunt for his sonne our Sauiour Christ his sake to whom be honor â–ª and prayse now and euer Your honour to commaund I. Rogers To the Christian Reader CHristian Reader thou hast to peruse at thy pleasure this finale treatise contayning an aunswere vnto Christopher Vitell the chiefe â—lder of the pretended â—amâ—lye of Loue and because it was directed to me and aunsereth certaine poyntes of my former boke called the displeying of the â—amily Therefore it is very meete and conuenient that since the matter toucheth me neerely and â—hargâ—th me with much vntruth that I defend the cause I first toke in hand which I am verely pâ—rswaded is an honest iust and godly defenâ—e of thâ— puritye of doctrine now taught and pâ—blicklâ— preached which this â—amilye spuâ—ne egerly against And although 2. vigilant Pastors haue leaâ—nedly confuted the doâ—tâ—ine of their Author HN. Yet this little availeth to recall them home to that found profession that some of the once â—asted and least they should boâ—st or vaunt that they haue written or compiled anâ—thing which should not be aunswered I hâ—ue thought good once agayne to bend my simple study to â—nswere this libeller Christopher Vitell whole crâ—dit amongâ—st the â—amilye is not small Maâ—uelâ— not gâ—ntle reader that I being the simplest of many thousandes haue aâ—uentuâ—ed to meddlâ— in these disputable questions more â—itter for men of learning and knowledge I graunt but since they haue made their inuectiues agaynst me it behoueth me simply to aunswere wherin I confesse many thingâ—s are omitted which mâ—ght well hâ—ue bin spoken of and many thinges are briefely touched which should haue bin dilated if leasure had serued me but since I cannot dâ—e thinges as I would thou hast my goodwill as I could Yf thou wouldest profiâ—e by reading these conferences it is expedient that thou peruse a little boke called â—he displeing of the Familye the publishing of which boke was the cause that this man being touched therein neerely hath made this Lâ—bell for aunswere thereunto excusing himselfe of many crimes and as much as in him lyeth keeping vp the credit of their Aucthor HN. whoâ—e the â—amilye would not that he should be touched or blemished no not with a venew but he that listeth to marke how his chiefest schollâ—r or oldest â—ngliâ—h Elder Christopher Vâ—tel doth with might and maine culleâ— and hide all the faultes of HN. as well his â—octrine and foule errors as his corrupt lyfe and conueâ—sation and how confidently and with a bâ—asen face he auoucheth that all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is brought forth neuer so probably yeâ— with many witnesses thou shalt or it be long haue a testimoniall out of â—launders of HN his whole lyfe which if the Family here in â—ngland would be â—esoluâ—d with â—â—ueth shal be vpon any oâ—â—asion published in print it nothing blâ—misheth our â—ause although this rude and vnlâ—arned Aunswere be made vnto this slaunderous Libell but our God therein is greatly magnified that simple men are suâ—ficiently assisted with God his spiâ—ite to confute and ouerthrow this blasphemous doctrine of the Familye so gâ—osse and absurd it is agaynst all the holy scripture and agaynst common reason And as nothing is more in vaâ—iance betweene vs then how man is restored vnto that â—lisle lost in Adam and his state being regeneâ—ate I haue simply set downe my poore sâ—ill such experience of a regenerat man as I finde in holy writâ— feele in my own consciâ—ence And also I haue collected the condition of a regenerat peâ—son by the doctâ—ine of HN. as neeâ—e as I could collect by such bokes of theirs as came to my handes wherein if the Familye imagine that I haue not rightly set foâ—th a â—egeneâ—at man after their doctrine let some of their illuminat Elders if they please set vpright such a one as they will stand vnto So shall the controuersy betwene them and vs soner come to end and tryall which if they refuse to doe then it will appeare that it is not
trueth they seeke but singularitye For although in other matters there be difference opinions yet in maâ—s election saluation redemption and regeneâ—ation being the pillers and foundations of our fayth whosoeuer erreth herein cannot be saued I am also Christian reader to desire thee to amend and correct with thy pen certaine faultes escaped in this treaâ—ise by the Printer and to amend the sence of some sentences being not rightly poynted which I refer vnto thy learned Iudgement The Lord our God blesse thee and grauÌ„t vs his holy spirite that we may persist and abide in the vnitye of his holy Church and patiently abide the Lord his leasure in rooting out errors and heresies which disquiet thy little flocke They are exercises of our fayth but yet blockes whereat the wicked stumble and hinderaunces of many a mans conuersion which the Lord our God foretold vs of that in the latter dayes such should come and such daungerous dayes should be that if it were possible the elect should be deceiued The complaint of a Regenerate man vnto God the Father shewing the sorrowfulnes of his haâ—t O Lord God heauenly Father thoâ— that art not only our God but the God of all the world we thy creatures the worke â—f thy hands make our humble prayers and supplications bâ—fore thy excellent maiesty â—eseeching thee O Lord not to consider vs as we aâ—e of our selues eaâ—th ashes and whatsoeuer is 〈◊〉 but as we are in Christ Iesus our Lord thy sanctified people whom thou hast chosen before all worlds to witnes thy â—ame in earth And to whom tâ—ou hast made manifest thy Sonne ouâ— Sauiour with an vncouered face to our great comfort â—et alas we vnworthy wretches finde in our selues such heapes of sinnes and such lumpes and loades of impieties that were we not stayed in thy promyses wee should perish with mistrust in thy mercies For we know that thou art a iust God and doest visite the offences of thy childreÌ„ with rods and their sinnes with whips Yet thy mercy doth neuer faile vs Yea although we sinne yet are we thine We haue O Lord tasted greatly of thy mercies Many yeaâ—es we haue been fed with heauenly meate Long time we haue enioyed the benefite of thy gospel a blessiâ—â— of blessinges our own conscience doth witnes yea our sinnes are so ripe and so outragious that they are ascended vp vnto the heauens and 〈◊〉 for thy iustice which we haue sore prouoked with multyplying sinne vpon since We haue not obayed thy voice We haue not harkened vnto thy seruants whom thou hast sâ—â—t We haue propbaned thy holy Sabaoth with vaine spectacles vngodly tragedies We professe thy name in our word but deny it in deedes Our vanity is too too manifest in our apparrail Our excesse appeareth in our banquets Our small reuerence towardes thy holy name in our vayne other Our merciles charitie towards thy meÌ„bers is too too manyfest Yea our whole life is nothing els but abuse of thy creatures with ingratitude for thy benefites So that we thy children are to expect and looke for nought els but thy heauy hand yea thy iudgements in displeasure We and our for fathers haue sinned Our Princes and Rulers our Priestes our Prophets and teachers Yea from the greatest to the least all haue followed the bypath of their own imagination deuice â–ª and haue not harkned vnto thy word to make it the lanthorne to our feete and the light to our steps Our own wayes and deuises haue preuayled We therfore O Lord our God prostrate our selues before thy maiesty beseeching thee for thy deere Sonne our Sauyour Christ Iesus sake turne not away thy face from vs in displeasure Bring not vpon vs wretches the due punishments our sinnes haue deserued Looke not vpon vs as we are of our selues but as we beloÌ„g to Christ Iesus for whose sake thou hast promised to deny vs nothing we aske in his name Looke vpon thy wonted mercies of old although the cry of our sinnes be great before thee yet the righteousnes of our Lord and Sauyour Christ Iesus is greater whom we interpose and put betweene thy iustice and our deserts Yea by him we appeare with boldnes before thee this day as childreÌ„ not as strangers saying O Our Father sanctified be thy holy name Let thy kingdome be inlarged in vs thy children Let thy will be performed in vs most obedieÌ„tly eueÌ„ as thy saints holy ones do fulfill the same before thee Geue vnto vs O Lord all earthly blessings this day that we may vse them to our comfort and not abuse them in pleasure Forgeue vs O Lord we beseech thee our dayly sinnes that we commit against thy diuine Maiesty And geue vs thy holy spirite that we may forgeue all such as by any degree 〈◊〉 trespas against vs Leade vs not not O Lord into tryall nor temptation aboue our strength for then our weakenes will appeare Delyuer vs O Lord from all those euils our sinnes dayly prouoke And froÌ„ all those plagues and punishments which thou hast threatned to bring vpon vs at this time Delyuer vs from the mouthes of cruell Lions which dayly gaâ—e to deuour vs From blondy Papistes which lye in wayte for vs and dâ—ly conspire to bereaue vs of the most comfortable benefit of thy word and seeke to make our liues a pray vnto their greedy desires Bring O Lord their deuises to nought Let thâ— liâ—le flock enioy the sweete comfort of thy gospell that we may praise thy holy name in our own land Roote out all secâ—es and heresies which are among vs which Sathan hath stirred vp to disquyet thy church And Lord if it be thy will either to conuert them or put them to silence for euermore Preserue O Lord God our gracious Queene Elizabeth in thine own bosome Deliuer her O Lord from all conspiracies tresoâ—s and trecheries which Sathan in his members shall deuise against her Make void their couâ—cels that consult against her and let vs O Lord enioy thy blessing in her long prosperous and happy dayes Geue O lord vnto her Councellors wisdome fortitude and courage to preuent all dangers and vnto our bishops and teachers geue truth in doâ—trine boldnes to publish the same without 〈◊〉 And to vs thy people geue O lord humble hartes and obedyent minds that we thy children may now at the last be warned to reuerence and regard thy holy gospel and feare thy puâ—â—shmeÌ„tâ— forsaking our vain delites in earthly things so that our whol life may be a dayly watch and looking for thy glorious coming So that in our hartes we may dayly saâ— Come Lord Iesus come quikly that we maybe losed fâ—oÌ„ thâ— woful vale wherein we doe nothing but prouoke thee with our sinnes â–ª Graunt O Lord we beseech thee that thy church may long enioy the liberty of thy word and geue constancy to thy members our bretheren which suffer any crosse or tribulatioÌ„â—â—her in body or minde as witnesses of thy trueth Geue
them patience we beseech thee that they may abide whatsoeuer thy Maiestie hath determined so that euen in tormentes they may witnes thy holy name Graunt vs O Lord our God these our petitions or so many as are expedient for vs thy children for thy deere Sonne our Sauiour Iesus Christ his sake To whom with thee â–ª the holy Ghost be al honor praise glory dominion power for euer and euer Amen A short reply after the order of a proface By the meanes of certayne slaunderous wordes as followeth from C. V. THERE IS NOTHING more necessarye for the reedisying of God his Gospell in a common wealth then foâ— euery such vnto whome the Pastorall office is committed With all expedition to beate downe by the aucthoritye of the same word all vpstart heresies And opinions by the which the true Church and congregation Is disquiâ—tâ—d â–ª of lâ—te theâ—efore as one poore member of the same in a preface To the tituled worke agaynst those which are called the Familye of Loue liking tâ—eÌ„ to a Cormorant Fowle was for that I espied By the manner of writinges and imaginatiue prâ—ctise Somewhat slyly couered ouer as the Snake vnder the greene hearbe from their HN. an Onacratoluâ— câ—ept in this our natiue Countrye of EnglaÌ„d through simplicitye But rather I feare me hipocâ—isie to the bosomeâ— of many supposed wise men the more by the meanes of a second Mergus C. V. Whome heretofore by vttered vow at Paules Crosse â—ecanted as I thinke the same error which he now stiffely defendeth Neuerthelesse sithens which tyme Hath in coâ—ners drawen companyes togethers of the which sâ—me haue refâ—ained â–ª and others yet tâ—o many abidiâ—â— I thâ—refore somewhat to further the goodwil of the Author agaynst that Familye their error and not their pâ—â—sons and for the hopes sake which is layd vp in store through Iesus Christ our â—ord and Sauiâ—ur did by preface â–ª forewarne the vewers of the sayd bâ—oke to be heedefull of such so pestileÌ„t a sect who vnder the title of sundry senteÌ„ces of holy scriptuâ—â— Hâ—ue as in a maâ—â— knit fast through the webbe of the Spider Many â—ely â—lyes whose vnstable mindes more wauering theÌ„ such slender wings haue ben are and will be except the grace of God make them more heedefull so fast tangled that it will be scarce possible to pluck them out I doe once agayne euen as one greatly compelled make aunswere agaynst that which herein followeth by those wâ—ome I hoped their conuersion and not detection whose wordes haue sayd me to be Diueled with the Deuill I doe consider these wordes to bâ— sayd to me by the lyke intention as to my L. and maister Christ that he had Belâ—ebub the chiefe Deuill yet wâ—â—â—e â—â—ue And the reprouers false Their wordes This blasphamous Batman with his slaundering and lyâ—ng blasphemeth the holy Ghost for he nameth the Familye of Loue a Corniorant Fowle And an sereticall sect whereas notwithstanding there is 〈◊〉 Catholick Church nor comminasâ—ye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue And herein he condemneth the holy Scriptures the Lawe and the Prophets as also Christ and his Apostles Moreouer he sayth that the Lord his elected Minister HN. is of the seede of certayne sectaries â— Whereas his doctrine is altogether agaynst all Sectaries If it be blasphemy to reproue an error then haue I not done well if it be lying to detect a falshode I will reaunswere if slaundering them that slaunder other in one is the fault to this first God his worde doth teach me to defend his Church the Queenes Maiesties lawes her common wealth whereto my conscience aunswereth by the trueth that if you take not better heede you will fall from heresie to treason and so into contempt of your religion Of your loyaltye And true seruice of God of the which take heede for the holy Ghost is iudge betwixt vs both I doe name the Familye of Loue the selfe same as before till I doe perceaue you to be otherwise minded except you vse this policye That when your Religion will hold no longer you will then say we vnderstode not your mindes and so therereby exâ—use your follyes You say there is no Catholick Church nor comminaltye of Saintes but the Familye of Loue surely your loue is so secret if we vnderstand it not you much lesse perceaue it but in secluding all that be not of your Family What shall be sayd of all the godly in the world before your HN. whome now to culler doe call the holy name What say you of our gratious Queene Her noble Counsaile the leaâ—ned Byshopâ— And disâ—â—et preachers of the Lordes Gospell What thinke you of the excellent ouâ—ces both Oxford â–ª Cambridge from the which they are not now to learne of their true loue in god Of your HN. Neither of C. V. Who cunningly hath ioyned together that which we know Christ to be the ouâ—â—commer and C. Vitell the Ioyner to be bâ—t a deceiuer Your Argument must haue an Interâ—ection when you say He condemneth the holy Scriptures the lawe and the Prophetes all which three â—â—â—uerence loue and obâ—y â–ª by the Lord God his assistance you ad as also Christ and his Apostles is it enough to condemne any before the cause why â–ª your Vocatiue must haue a Datiue to your selfe be all these except you 〈◊〉 the greater heeâ—e I 〈◊〉 also vettrly deny your HN. Hâ—rry Niâ—holas to be the Lordes elected Minister â–ª otherwiâ—e then suâ—ferâ—d to peruert the congregation And also I say to you Chrisâ—opher Vitell 〈◊〉 you 〈…〉 and while there is yet tym◠〈…〉 to God whome in this â—tâ—r you hâ—ue greatly offended your Prince much aâ—used â–ª anâ— many your fellow disorderly 〈…〉 by your vngodly collections thorow which 〈…〉 you haue continued too long as to your ease you may thinke So to their payne it may be assured If now your doctrine be agaynst all Sectaryes Then be as good as your word and â—ly these errors â–ª els as weedes are cut of with sickle and sithe for hiâ—ting the good herbes so must euill membber from a common wealth Fare well Fidem fero mihi fama fuco An Aunswere to a wicked and infamous Libel made by one of the chiefe english Elders of the pretended Familie of Loue. Vitell. Testimonies of Sion of the â—â—st stone of fouâ—datioâ— layd therein of â—he iudgement and righteousnes and of the holy priesthood and spirituall oblation through Iesus Christâ— brought fourth through the Lordes â—lâ—câ—â—d minister HN. loue Trueth BLessed is he which watcheth for the day of the Lorde which shal come as a theefe in the night Math. 24.1 Thessa â–ª 5. Peter 3. For the tyme shall come that the watchmen vpon mount Ephraim shal crye come let vs goe vp vnto Sion to the Lord our god Iere. 31. Mich. 4. Zach. 8. Answere TO what purpose these places of holy scripture are collected I am ignoraunt of because they want dew explication we know that from Sion came the law of
Fideliâ—as he would haue vs beleeue that Nâ— pronounceth and declareth the right state of all what is in heauen and vpon earth what is Gods and mans spiritual and heauenly naturall right and reasonable c. Belike he thought his bookes should neuer haue been perused by any but of such as are drowned in the drowsie dremes oâ— this fantastical doctrine One More of â—uâ—â—er in â—â—â—ng â—â—wardes dayes and one 〈…〉 of Manchester in this our Quéenes dayes tolde of such vayne and friuoloâ—s matters but they were punished as Lunatikes And whereas your Fidelitas sayth that no such works could be wrought by anye vnlesse the Lord were with him this is as strongly affirmed as the other part is monstrous and vngodly For I praye you examine what are the works that HN. hath so notably brought forth which doth manifest y God is with him His bookes peraduenture you meanâ— What his bookes are and out of what spirit they procéed is easely perceiued A simple wit hauing such a guide could deuise agaynst Christ his doctrine as fine riddles as HN. hath published should carry a more shew of truth then his bookes do For schollers and children are able to confute his follies sufficiently they cary such absurdities with them both against the Scriptures of God and against all common reason and nature The kingdome of Israell shal be set vp again the childreÌ„ of loue shall raigne therin you say but when shall this your prophesie take place you tell vs not In deede Dauid George tolde vs before the like propheâ—y that the true house of Dauid should be erected and the children of loue should raigne therin Why delite you your selues with such speaches For in this worlâ— these thinges according to the letter â—hall not happen but they are spoken to assure vs of the resurrection and to shadow the ioyes of the kingdome of heauen whereby our harts should be lifted vp with expectation of his promise Vitell. BEhold these be the causes wherthrough the lord hath moued me to minister the seruice of loue vnto other wherein I haue sought only the honor of God and the saluation of al people which hope in god and long for his righteousnes Also I haue through the goodnesse of the lord met with certan good willingnons which haue submitted them obediently and faithfully vnto the lord and his gratious word which also haue followed the couÌ„cel of christ to the clensing of their hartes and therin doth their light shine before men wherin they seeke the laude of the lord and the saluation of all meÌ„ Answere WHen you had séene dissention vprores contentioÌ„ c. in the world then the Lord you say moued you to minister the seruice of loue vnto others you toke the aforesayd â—robles as a fit occasion geueÌ„ you to begin your doctrine surely you bewâ—ay your selfe in your speach You thought it was good fishing when the waters were troubled and tooke occasion to teach false doctrine when you saw great broiles and tumults in the world But where you affirme that the Lord moued you to do this â–ª wherby shall we know that this your bare affirmation is true onely because you say so but the holy Ghost hath warned vs not to geue credit to such Ier. 14. ver 14. sayth The Prophetes prophesie lâ—es in my name I haue not sent them nether did I commaund them nether did I speake to them but they prophesie to you a falâ—e vision diuination vanity and deâ—eitfâ—lnes of their own harts Also Eze. 13. ver 3. Wo be to the foolish Prophets that follow their own spirit haue seene nothing We may not beleue euery spirit but try the spirit whether he be of God Iohn 4.1 The Lord moued you not to leue your arte calling and to minister a strange doctrine to the people but the spirit of pride and vaynglory and a desire of singularity puâ—t vp your mind Like as in time past you did as eagerly maintayn other strange monsterous opinions The causes that moued you to spred your doctrine are not sufficient you haue thrust in your selfe into a function and calling nether allowed of god nor ordayned by mâ—n and thiâ— your ministery is disobedience to God and the publick magistrate neither hâ—ue you herein fought the honor of God â–ª saluation of al people as you afâ—irmâ— If you had sought God his honor your voice should publickly haue been heard and not in corners In that you haue met with certayn good willing ones which haue submitted themselues c. therin we beshrew you lament that any simple soules are deceiued by your perswasions and in deede it seemeth some such there are that geue eare to your sugred wordes For the poyson of aspes is vnder youre tongue Psal. 14. Why come you not â—orth to mayntayn such doctrine as you haue taught why proue you not your doctrin by the holy Scripture Why suffer you your schollers to be troubled and imprysoned but for your selfe you are saâ—e inough and when they should render a reason of their hope and faith then they vtterly deny your doctrine It séemeth that such a principle you haue taught theÌ„ to affirme and to deny only keeping their conscience secret Now where you say that your good willing ones or schollers their light hath shone before men wherâ—by you would heare vs in hand that your pupilâ— be men of excellent life as you set them out so do they your life as appeares by their letters so one of you commeÌ„deth and prayseth another anâ— so must you â—éedes do when you want good neighborâ— y best way iâ— to praise your selues Vitell. ALso I haue geuen forth certayn bookes which are translated word for word as neare as we could out of the bokes of HN. and some of them haue come to the hands of enuyous persoÌ„s which are diuilâ—ed with the deuill either diuelishly minded for they be slaunderers and liâ—rs and also blasphemers whilest they haue â—laâ—phemed thâ— holy Ghost and hiâ— most holy seruice of loue Moreouer they hauâ—â—ayled at â—euyled condemned despised and blasphemed the Lord his elected minister HN. If this come not out of enuy although they say nay then I know no enuyous spirites And although there be many enuiors of the loue and her most holy seruice yet are theâ—e two horryble blasphemers of late rysen vp whose bookes arâ— come to my hands The one is named Steuen Batman the othâ—r I.R. But they might both be named with one name Tertullus if they coÌ„tâ—nue in their lying wherof I must wryte although I haue no pleasure in such workers of wickednes Aunswere THat the bokes of HN. were translated out of Dutch by you we knew before but in distributing them to the Quéenes subiects without any allowance of the magistrate contrary to law therin we tel you you haue not dealt liâ—e a â—rue subiect nor a christiaÌ„ you complayned of disobedience to magistrates but you your selfe are the most disobedient of
you seeke to intrappe God his children to make them be partakers of your manifest impieties but the Lord will preserue his euermore Vitell. MOreouer wheras you writ the life of HN â–ª of his birth you writ mo lyes then truth therefore it appeareth you know not where he was borne neither was he euer at Mâ—ster as you sayd nor any man for him For he was euer against all rebellion and disorder of life and that can be tryed by his works and alo testified yet in Amsterdam for the Rulers permitted him to deale with those sectaries for to see if he could perswade them because they saw the Lord had geuen him wisdome and vnderstanding But euen as it chaunced to our Lord Iesus which was iudged to be a companyon of Publicans and sinners also a wine bibber and a drunkard Euen so do they say of his minister HN. all such things hath hee borne in the patience of Christ c. Answere IN wryting the life of HN. I haue done it by the tâ—stimony of his honest neighboures who knew hun better then you lâ—nger then you and before you knew him Their testimony wil stand for truth although for his crâ—dite sake you wil not beleue it and account it lyes I neuer sayd he was in Munster I affirme that he went about to ayd his brethreÌ„ in Munster as was supposed you say it appeareth by his works that he is against all rebelilion and disorder of life but how doth it appeare by you hiâ— Family to teacâ— a secret doctrine in corners against the law and stir vp the people to imbrace the same â–ª What wisdome and vnderstanding was geuen to him whereof you boast â–ª Little is shewed either in him or you He is a wise man that coÌ„tenteth himself with the simple truth taught in the scriptures anâ— seeketh not by strange deurses to pâ—blisâ— doctrine contrary thâ—runto Wâ—sdome is shewed in humilitie and not iâ— vâ—rne ostentatioâ— and boasting of the spiâ—ite of God and of secret reuelatiâ—â—s wher of your Author is full A wise man delyteth not in singularity neither thinketh speketh nor boasteth of any wisdome in him If God haue bestowed any excellent gifte in man let it appeare to his glory without ostentation â—ou make your compaâ—â—sons vnequall because Christ our Lord vntruely was accused to be a wine bibver a drunkard c. So likewise his minister HN. which he is content to beare in the patience of Christ. What patience is in your Author I know not but if we may discern the patience of the master by his schollâ—rs then I can testifie of many of â—our â—npatience What wordes and blasphemies you haue charged me with bâ— this your libell appeares and whâ—t taunts and vncomely speaches mired with manifest slaunder in your letters appeareth Besides what private letters and threates I haue receaued at your hands of the Family I coulde here declare but that you are so patient as you affirme your HN. is I finde it not The Lord geue vs all patience that in seeking his truth we may imitate his patience which sayd Learn of me c. Vitell. NOw you say he nameth Iohn Caluin Marten Luther the Papistes and the Anabaptistes to be 4. castels whiche is also false For there are no such names mencioned of in all his bookes neither is there anye such bookes of his therefore Adrian Gisling hath tolde you a lye and you haue fortefied iâ— Answere I Sayd in the displeing of the Family that one Adrian Gisling had read in a book called the glasse of righteousnes of 〈◊〉 Castells vnder the same mens names mencioned nowe this man is sure HN. neuer writ any such booke and therefore must needes be a lye I am credibly informed that HN. hath written 27 smale treatises and â—pistles and this man hath seene all as hee sayth but let the thing be true or false the matter is not great the party that told me is liuing and of honest credite and may as well be beleued as you I pray you are there no bookes called the glasse of righteousnes for he compiled ii of that title I neuer saw any of those bookes in deed but if there be no such then HN. hath mocked the Family for he still in his bookes referreth hys reader vnto the same booke called the glasse of righteousnes And in deede I doubt that book doth vtter more of your Aucthors secret doctrine then his smale paÌ„phlets Fewe or none in the Familye haue it that I coulde euer learne if you haue seene all the Authors works then you haue also seene that and you keepe it secret least your Family should not or could not well brooke the doctrine conteined in the same Let the booke be seene and keepe it not hidden it standeth you vpon nowe to let the worlde tast the doctrine which you haue affirmed Princes kingâ—omes afore this tyme should haue imbraced Vitell. MOreouer you sayd he maryed his daughter Mary to a younker that is true but not at EmdeÌ„ also you say that HN. abused a womaÌ„ that is a false report so to report of him for he neuer abused any woman neither taught he any other doctrine concerning the immortality but the doctrine of christ For Christ saiâ—h he that beleeueth in me though he were dead yet should he liue and who so liueth and beleeueth shal neuer dye neither was he accused to the Rulers for any such matter but he was complayned of by certayne enuiouâ— persoÌ„s which affirmed that he was one that taught a strange doctrine and thâ— Maiestrates gaue credite vnto the false witnesses thereupon sought for him and because they founde hym not they delt extreemely with his Family and caried away his goodes Aunswere THat his daughter Mary was maryed to a yonker you affirme Therefore not all are lyes which are by his neighbors reported of him as you sayd before why may not all the rest be true onely you speaking contrary some of these persons were at the mariages which haue testified their knowledge I thinke at that tyme you were not acquainted with HN. nor his doctrine and therefore your bare denyall is onely heresay but these are no great matters to stand vpon you confesse that he could not be found being sought for then was he fled before his accusation was for strange doctrine and not for a woman as you auouch But certeynly If the Magistrates should cary away his goodes â–ª for an accusation of strange doctrine then were they not indifferent neither can I be brought to credit your speach nor thinke so vnreuerently of any Magistrates but why sied he if he were not guilty of any crime In â—mden men know that many Religions had peaceable habitation without gaynsaying of the Magestrat If the spirite of God were so mighty in him as he sayth it is why did he not stay to render a reason of his doctrine before the Magestrate â–ª the perticulers being examined your simple denyall agaynst so many witnesses is
scarce credible But at â—mden from that day to this opeÌ„ly he durst not be séene therefore some other matter was layd to his charge then professing a strange doctrine For his credite sake it had beâ— conuenient to haue geuen some reason to proue that he was accused for no other cause let the world iudge indifferently where is more probabilitye Vitell. ANd after there was iustice desired then they restored agayne his goodes vnto his children but there was much taking away by the vntrue officers for there was no inuitory taken therof but whether he went and where he had his abode that shall in tyme be manifest when as the Lord shall moue the hartes of the Magesâ—â—ates to desâ—re to know the ground of the trueth then shall it all be declared to them but the trueth thereof is yet vnknowen vnto you therefore you may be content and not trouble your selfe therwiâ—h Answere THe Magâ—strates you say redeâ—iuered hâ—â— goodes to his children therfore they were men that imbraced Iustice and so would they haue ministred Iustice to HN. If he would â— stayd but the safest way was to preuent the matter by flight you are very â—riuye to HN. and his doingâ—s that can so redely tell what was missing now the Magestrates here shall know the trueth where he is and where he hath made his abode euer since but sure it is little to be regarded where he is and I thinke the Magestrates doe hartely wishe that he had neuer ben borne nor you neither he for deuising your new familye and you for publishing the same to our countrye and translating tâ—e bookes which certainly was not done lyke a godly Christâ—aÌ„ nor a true â—nglish harted man For in â—eede as I am informed you are of the Dutch race your selfe and so appearâ—th by your vaine and curious hed salling froÌ„ one error to another as those countrymen are apt vnto â—f the boâ—kâ—s had remained in dutch our quiet Country should neuer haue â—in troubled with this new familye to the griefe oâ— God his childreÌ„ whiâ—h bewaile y state that you haue brought many vnto at this day veye well assured that although ye lurke in corners and send fourth your Libels you cannot escape his handes who seeth euery corner of our hartes And as HN. by slight would not abide the triall of his matter euen so doe ye follow the same course sayle rightly by his compas for stand to your doctrine nor come to conference you dare not but priuily insinuat your doctrine where your wordes are taken for Oracles The Magestrates would gladly that you should geue a reason more agreable to truth of your dealinges and doctrine as for HN. where he became or where he is they little passe and wheâ—e you say that to me the trueth is vnknowen it may be as you say neither will I trouble my selfe much therein but that you of his Familye might imbrace trueth is my chiefe purpose which cannot be in my opinion holding your selues captiue to the illusions of HN. Vitell. FVrthermore you say that he doth cal himselfe Restorer of al things whereunto I aunswere that there is no suâ—h word written by him and yet hath thâ— Lord accomplished according to his promises through the â—piriâ—â— of Christ in him all that he hath spoken through the mouth of his seruauntâ—s the Prophets more where you say that HN. cannot erre or miâ—â—e the right c. I know not how hee or any one should erre whiâ—hâ— is indewed with the holy Ghost led by the spiâ—ite of Christ which leadeth into all trueth Aunswere THat he doth so call himselfe I haue written therein as I â—inde it collected by the commissioners who delt specially in that matter but you affirme as much or more of him then I charged him with For you say that the Lorde â—ath accomplished through the spirite of Christ in him all that he hath spoaken through the mouth of his Prophetes and this we thinke to be very straingely auouched of you contrary to trueth the Prophecyes of such whome the Lord raysed vp to coÌ„fort the weake estate of his Church in the tyme of the law were fulfilled in their seasons especially such prophesyes as either touched the captiuitye of the Iewes or the destruction of their Citie also many of their prophesies concerned the comming of our merciful Messias the maner of his byrth passion death and resurrection Now to affirme that all these are fulfilled in â—â— is very horâ—â—ble and moÌ„strous but such is your vanitye that so you may extoll the dignitye of your Aucthor you care not what vntruthes ioyned with blasphemye you vtter the lyke speach HN. auoucheth of himselfe saying what God hath spoken â—hrough hâ—s holy Prophets what is written of Châ—ist should also in vs and with vs beâ—ome fâ—lâ—illed c. â—ow you are able by any shaddow of trueth to proue anâ— of these two sayinges true it had bin requisite that you should a shewed for they carry great absurdityes both in trueth and reason Whether doe you lift vp your Aucthor by such vntrue speaches it doth appeare very lamentable to all God his children this is proude bosting and exaltation such as S. Paule did warne the Church to take heede of such I doe much maruell that Christian men with any face can write thus presumpteouslye of mortall man although you would qualisye your saying that this is brought to passe by the spirite of Christ in him but this helpeth not neither doth it stand with the will of God reueled that any mortall creature should be so exalted For if we should demaund of you how we shall know this to be true then you aunswere by his workes which I thinke you meane his bookes Yf otherwise you meane some miraculous dealing which you are priuy of and not knowen it were necessary for his credit and your honesty not to hide it any longer but simply to manifest the same Moreouer you say that none can erre which are indued with the holy ghost c. We know that the spirite leadeth into al trueth yet those vessels hauing by grace such priuiledge doe often in shew and countenaunce appeare as though the spirite were queÌ„â—hed or as fire raked vp in ashes example here of Peter who hauing the spirite of God yet did thingâ—s contrary to trueth and therefore was rebuked by Paule and that worthely many in Christ his Church no dout haue bin guided by the spirite of God and yet sometymes haue shewed theÌ„selues humane creatures as wanting that excellent priuiledge appropriate to Christ which sayd I am trueth such is our condition we may not reach higher not to erre is a speciall title belonging to Christ our Lord and not to mortall man although lightened with the spirite we must rest conteÌ„t with such honor as it pleaseth him to graunt who is Lord of his creatures and not to reach so high as presumpteously to chalenge a title and dignity farre aboue our capacitye and not
illuminate Elders in the Family sinne not you deny it not but wish y I knew what I sayd you say that they preuayl with God ouer sinne But we deny that any preuayle with God ouer sin otherwise then in the person of Christ. And herein you teach false docâ—rine to the people For your wordes are false that we preuaile with God and Christ ouer sinne Nay we affirme that we preuaile with God by Christ which accepteth vs for his sake and although you acknowledge neuer so much that this is brought to passe by Christ in vs yet we tell you playne that it standeth not with his good will and pleasure so to do but that contynually we should be petitioners to him for grace to keep vnder sinne that sinne raigne not in vs that sinne beare not rule in vs or haue dominion ouer vs as the Scriptures vse to spâ—ake but that we preuayle against sinne so that we extinguish it in our own persons It is a doctrine of Sathan and not froÌ„ the lord In this and the like doctrine doth your Author and you shew a manifest pâ—oofe whence your errors are suckt euen from the Pope who teacheth that we may fulfill the law If it be so then may we be righteous by it and haue no neede of christ Such hereticall and imptous doctrine contrary to the scriptures you teach and therfore your Author and you worthely despysed The Pope in his doctrine of Opera superâ—◠〈◊〉 and you with your doctrine of perfection to be wrought in vs in this life do so extenuat the death and passion of our Lord and Sauyour Christ that the poore oppressed burthened sinner loaden and â—roning vnder the burthen of sinne can finde smal comfort Therfore the church of christ grounded vpon the Prophetes and Apostles Christ Iesus being the chiefe corner stone of this foundation doubt not in truth and humilitie of spirite to acknowledge still iâ— vs while we are in this life a battaile or combat against sinne to striue to fight but not to conquere to tryumph or to preuayle but by faith in Christ in whose person we conquere we tryumph and we preuayle So that to be ouercome or be subdued vnder sin we cannot because we haue a valiant and most victorious conqueror who still imputeth his conquest and victory ours yet so as sinne and the motions therof still remayn in â—s to our great exercise that feeling our wâ—â—knes our want and our need we â—ight in our necessitye haue recâ—â—se vnto our Captayn our Sauyour and delyuerer But that we in our persons should pâ—euayle 〈◊〉 sinne as you affirmed is false wicked and damnable doctrine but such fauour hath falsed with you that you greedely embrace this as though Christ or his Apostles had taught it whereas it is against all the doctrine of Christ and his Apostles and against all examples in the scriptures David sayth 〈…〉 S. Paul sayth Christ Iesus came into y world to saue sinners of y which number I am the greatest if doing our best we must acknowledge our selues vnprofitable seruauntes where is become your doctrine of perfection neuer heard of in Christ his Church our â—umayne state and condition is so lifted vp and stast with pride by your doctrine of perfection that penitent sinners find smal grace in whom you impute scarce hope of saluation except they attayne the perfection on whome shall Christ hys death take place to whome shal the vertue thereof extend if none shal be saued but such as be perfect in whome no sinne resteth or remayneth you take away all comfort from sinners to whome the Gospell belongeth and our onely comfort in distresse the effect wherof by this your doctrine is denied miserably do you herein deceaue your setuâ—s and other They that haue pleasure in sinnâ— are seruaunts to sinne as you affirme but to haue pleasure in sinne that sinn raygne in vs or haue dominion ouer vs continually we affirme that they are markeâ— and tokens not of the children of good but contrary yet we doubt not to â—â—â—irme the remnants the motions lustâ— and roÌ„cupiscence incident to our frayle nature still to lurke in our bodyes notwithstanding we be in the fauour with God and made righteous by Christ his death and passion for so it standeth with his good wil and pleasure that his grace should be made perfect through our weaknes Therefore you with your doctrine of perfection doe extenuate his death as much as in you lyeth We are not in humbling our selues enemies vnto y lord but you by exalting your selues except ye repent will be taken enemies both to God and all good men Your schollers in the Family doe blame vs in their wrytings affirme that we in confessing our imperfections â–ª and sinnes which contynually doe assault vs dayly and hourely We are as they say â–ª Aduocates for sinue and you teaching a perfection are mainteners of righteousnes but more truely may it be sayd of you that you with your perfection are enemies to y grace of God manifest to vs by Christ Iesuâ— our Lord and do thereby blaspheme as much as in you lyeth the glory of hys passion and death appropriate only to sinners you may with the pharasies brag of your perfection and obseruation of the law but we comfort ourselues with these and the lyke sayings of holy Scripture Christ Iesus came into the world to saue sinners So God loued the world that he gaue his onely begotteÌ„ sonne c Behold the lambe of God which taketh away the sinnes of the world c. Vitell. FArther you say they may ioyne with any congregatioÌ„ or Church and liue vnder the obedience of any Maiestrâ—te It is true we are obedient vnto all Maiestrates where wee dwell for â—he peaces cause and obserue their politick ordinances which are to a good protectioÌ„ of their subiectes â—â—d the land but we consent not vnto any thing which is agaynst God or hys commaundements also we accompâ— none vngodly but such aâ— obstiâ—atly blaspheme the Lord hys ordiâ—â—unces and despise his most holy seruice of loue although they be ignoraunt of the waye vnto lyfe For we confesse that there is no man righteousnes vntill the Lord deliuer hym from his vnrighteousnesse and through hys Christ make hym righteous and then may he say that the Lord is hys righteousnes Aunswere THat you may ioyne with any Church c. I did affirme beyng led by many reasons so to do for you perswaded many in Queene Maries raigne to go to Masse your brethren in Flaunders which are of your Family do the lyke you also with vs come to Church and ioyne with vs in praier in â—euing thanks in heâ—ring the worde preached c. Yet hauâ— you priuate conuâ—ntickles and meetings forbidden by the law wherin you shewe not your obedience to the Maiestrates aâ— you affirme but your wilfull stubburnes and frowardnes you ioyne with all to wyne all but more iustly you flatter
now he beginneth to be knowen and by the great credit and admiration you haue him in the more detestable will he be reputed as a seducer of such men as cannot content themselues wiâ—h such trueth as the scriptures containe but must haue a Prophét raysed vp out of FlauÌ„ders a banished man and one that dare not shew his face in any countrey openly and you had rather imbrace his noueltyes then the wholsome doctrine conteyned in the olde and new testament Vitell. NOw concerning his bookes they be of such Aucthoritye as he affirmeth them but where as you say that he sayth all is false and lyes whatsoeuer is taught c. marke wel what he writeth and adde nothing thereto and it shall be found true what he writeth more where as you say he commendeth the Pope and Cardenalls with the Masse and other ceremonyes there is none commended but in their right order if you marke the matter well Answere HIs bookes I affirmed that they were in crâ—dite amongest the familye of equall auâ—horitye with the scriptures and that they were written with the same spirite to this you auÌ„swere that they are of such aucthoritye as he hath affirmed thereforâ— note well what you say for neuer any since the Apostles tunes had so impudent a face as openly to publish such a detestable lye if this come not from the spirite of pride I know no proud bosting spirites all the Fathers in the primitiue Church euer reuerenced the holy scripture and submitted all their bookes thereunto Austen desired not to be credited or beleued but as his workes might agree with the holy scriptures all men in generall haue euer acknowledged themselues in their writinges to be subiect to error onely the scripture to be without blemish but this man will haue HN. and his bookes of equall aucthoritye with the scriptures written with the same spirite thus doe you runne from one impietye to an other and in the highest degree of blasphemye But I pray you looke vpon the matter better before you say he is a prophet now his bookes are of equal aucthoritye with the scripture whether will you lift vp your HN. aboue all condition of fraile man the higher he is exalted the more greuous will be his fall without repentaunce it is Luciferian pride thus to attribute vnto mortall man but you make HN to be a name of office and not of a creature such misteryes requireth falced where trueth and simplicitye imbraceth playne dealing Now you say that HN. doth auouch all to be false whatsoeuer is taught by any other therefore heare his owne wordes and then discerne and sée God his trueth and his godly and heauenly workes are vnknowen vnto all fleshe and vnto all fleshly and earthly men but it is geuen to the children of the kingdome the comminaltye of the Loue to vnderstand the secret misteryes thereof You say it will be found true what he writeth If none but the comminaltye or Familye of Loue doe vnderstaÌ„d the scripture then it was not rightly vnderstode before there was any mention of your Familye Now for commendatioÌ„ of the Pope Cardinals and Masse he sayth hee commendeth none buâ— in his right order this speach is ambigâ—us in his right order For simply I thinke none of them haue any shaddow of right order neither is their callinges nor doctrine grounded vpon either right or good order Your Author belyke alloweth the Masse or els he would not haue taken such paynes as to explicat euery ceremonye therein in his booke called A declaratioÌ„ of the Masse but thus with subtiltye of speach you would faine say somewhat to defend your Author be his sayinges neuer so monstrous Vitell. FOr in that booke named a ioyfull message of the kingdome of God Christ though ye deâ—idingly call it his gospell is declared that â—Papa signifieth an olde Father in the holy vndeâ—standing Now althogh he be not indued with the holy vnderstaÌ„ding yet is the name not the worse in it selfe For the Lord hath ordeined gouernours spirituall and temporall and they represent the maiestye of God although now certayne gouernours gouerne not according to the rule of righteousnes yet is not therefore the name euerthelesâ—e of reputation because it is an ordenance of God therefore let vs despise no name that belongeth to gouernours neither yet also any gouernour nor any man els for we haue all sinned haue neede of the grace or mercy of the Lord. Answere THe booke in lattin is called EuaÌ„gelium Regnâ— gospell of the kingdome but this man is the translator thereof and hath qualified it calling it a ioyfull message of the kingdome the title is arrogant and presumptuous the doctrine therein worse as will appere in print ere it be long the pope hath found among manâ— enemies one freÌ„d although his doctrine is spokeÌ„ against euery where yet this maÌ„ would gladly képe and retayne his bare name belonging to a gouernour in office we coÌ„deme not the name his doctrine not agrâ—â—ing with the word is by the same word condemned so is yours For significations of names â–ª wâ—e will not contend a part of your deuinity lyeth therein neither do wee despise any name but is euell doctrine be shadowed or vnder any name cloked then wee inuey agaynst the doctrine vsing the name as wheÌ„ inuectiues are made agaynst the Pope or HN. it is not ment of the persons but of the doctrine And surely the Pope did neuer exercise so great a Popedome in the West Church as your HN. a new Pope doth among you of his Familye and as the papistes which tooth and nayle seeke to maintayne euery absurd and senceles part of the popes doctrine with all their power witte and skill EueÌ„ so do ye of his Family maintayne your Nâ— and whatsoeuer vnsauery doctrine he teacheth it maâ— not be discredited nor he cannot therein erre or misse the right in such reputation haue you placed mortall man. You say we all haue sinned haue need of y grace or mercy of the Lord y all haue sinned you truely confes but that all doe dayely sinne you cannot beleue especially you the â—â—ders of the holy vnderstandinâ— but in humilitye of spirite you and wee ought to coÌ„fesse not onely that we haue sinned but dayely and hourely do sinne and haue neede not onely of his grace but his mercy also although you speake of grace or mercy but wee craue his grace and mercy his grace to guide vs and his mercy to deliuer vs. Vitell. MOreouâ—r you are greatly offended because hee sayeth that none shold take iâ— haÌ„d to teach or preach but the illuminate elders whiâ—h arâ— Godded with God or incoâ—poâ—atâ—d to God and with whom also God in one being and power of his spirite is hominisied or become man And those you call proud speaches and because â—N vseth them ye despise him althoughe they be no strange words or speches in thâ— dutâ—h language â–ª therfore in so doing you despiâ—e the
will not ioy nor rest in peace vntill all your errors be disclosed and â—ou and your fellowes be brought to â—umble your selues before the Lord without your HN. which the Lord bring spedely to passe Amen Vitell. NOw must I for want of tyme passe ouer and omit many thinges and submit my cause vnto the almighty desiring him of his goodnes for to try our cause in his ballaunâ—e of equitye euen with the Loue and trueth for so shall there then be expressed and testified by the light or Christ that Gods honour is declared with the Loues seruice most sincerely Aunswere THis Libel was not long enough but he muâ—â— oâ—â—t much matter and so as he sayth submit his cause vnto the almighty c. â—ut if you did as becoÌ„meth a true Christian you should not onely submit your cause vnto the Lord who in patience suâ—freth Ipocrites to trouble his Church but also submit your doctrine to be tryed and iudged by his holy word which is a iust iudge in all causes of controuersy For if your protestation shall be admitted without exception theÌ„ euill doers and blasphemers of God and Christ may haue liberty to referre their cause vnto the Lord but since almighty God hath in earth a knowen Church it is requisite that euery one being required should geue account of his fayth and hope as the scriptures doe teach you would haue your cause tryed in the ballaunce of equitye a truer ballance is not then his law which is without blot or wrinkle if you would abide the tryall thereof your doctrine and your patrone HN. should be found lighter then vanitye it selfe Where you adde with the Loue trueth the Loue you so often confound that you know not your selues the meaning thereof sometyme you wil signifie Christ by that name loue sometime a vertue procéeding sometyme a qualitye of the minde sometyme for the exercise which you priuately vse where to finde the exposition of this word Loue you leue it as vncertaine then it shall be expressed you say by the light or Christ that by you God his honor is declared with the Loues seruice sincerely here is Loue agayne ioyned with seruice which cannot meane as I thinke any thing â—lls but God his seruice I take it in the best part if you haue any other more secret misterye therein I leaue to your selues but touching any seruice you doe to God it is Ipocrysye so long as you serue him without Christ or with any other and Christ for he will admit no other to haue place in mens hartes but himselfe he made all he requireth all Vitell. OH what a dauÌ„gerous tyme is it presently in these last dayes and how vnrightly haue many vnregenerated men set vp themselues to geue iudgement with their good thinking For whatsoeuer euery one mindeth thinketh good and electeth â—ther falleth to that same prayseth and iudgeth he for the most best and for a righteousnes thereto also he wresteth the scripture according to his will for the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one euen as he is minded be it whatsoeuer to be high minded in pleasant lustes either to be debased in misery to be merâ—y or sorowfull with sighing either with thankes to be despised and persecuted or to persecute and despise one an other and many such lyke c. Answere OF the dauÌ„gerous tyme we are not ignorant of and more we tell you that you and your fellowes make the tyme much more daungerous and troublesome with your errors which HN. and you haue raysed vp Now you complayne that vnregenerat men haue set vp themselues you meane by vnregenerat men all others which are not illuminat nor deifâ—ed as your Elders are The children of God for whome Christ dyed whose names are written in the booke of lyfe are regenerate although as I haue sayd before you account none to be regenerat but such as haue no motions of sinne or sinne not but you say that the same vnregenerat men with their good thinking â–ª that same he prayseth and iudgeth for righteousnes but who might worse alledge the same then you who câ—mmâ—nd without reason or cause your Auâ—hor and his moÌ„strous doâ—trinâ— which hath in it such grosse absurdâ—â—yes and most contrary to God and his word and you are they that peâ—uert the scripture to set vp your Prophet and his doctrine and what is spoken of Christ doe you not wickedly apply the same to your HN. doe you not apply this place of Malarhy chap. 3. which our Sauiour Christ verefied to be propesied of Iohn behold I will send my messenger which shall prepare the way before me Againe Math. 11. he shall turne the hart of the Fathers to the children and the hartes of the children c. doe you not I say apply these places to signifye your HN. and that it is ment by him therefore there are none found such wresters of the scriptures as you And where as you affirme that the scripture is seruiceable vnto euery one therein you shew what reuerence you haue vnto y same for although you such others do abuse the scripture contrary to y purpose of y holy ghost yet are the scriptures y wisedome of God reuealed to man and is a perfit law of righteousnes and not as you vngodly and vnreuerently tearme it seruiceable vnto euery one Your companions the Papistes haue as you doe called the scripture a nose of ware a shipmans hose c. but most wickedly and falsely to both your confusions it is the power of God vnto saluatioÌ„ Vnto them that beleue the sauour of lyfe vnto lyfe but vnto such as you are which so vnreuerently speake thereof it is the sauor of death vnto death the scriptures doe not maintayne pleasant lustes nor high mindes as you vnreuerently suppose but they are to comfort and lift vp the sorrowfull and broken mindes and to beate downe and correa the hauty and proud stomackes If vngodly men such as you are abuse them to other purposes the fault is in the persons not in the word Vitell. WHereunto euery one wresteth the scripture and defendeth his cause therewith insomuch that euery one thinketh that he for his part hath the most best Behold with such a misery is the man plagued such manner of good thinking and vnprofitable burthen hath he taken vpon him oh that we left all such and gaue ouer our vnderstanding captiue ether suffred it to be pluâ—kt vnder the obedience of the loue of Iesu Christ and followed after the coÌ„mon brotherly loue innocently or vndeceitfully and continued concordably in prayer vnto God â—l that God receiued vs to mercy released vs froÌ„ the sin of the ignorant knowledge and established his promise on vs to the laud prayse and honor of his holy name and to our saluation Aunswere YF euery one wrest the scripture where shall wee finde Christ his Church who is led by the spirite of trueth according to his promise thâ— greatest wresters of
God â—nd one man and they were one and had in al one order being and nature For God was all that the man wâ—s and the man was â—l that God was c. Thus man became God at the beginning For God looking vpon man looked vpon him self as the same cleerâ—nes of his liuing Godhead Also the man looked vpon his God his gentle cleane and vnspotted manhode in all fulcomenes in all honesty and fairenes in all fashion and being according to the same Godhead And this was also all one God and the man c. God gaue the man in the beginning none other Lawes Institutions Iudgements nor Commaundements but to liue with ioy naked or vncouered before him and to looke vpon all the works of God for good and not for euil should neuer tast or féele euill death or condemnation But as the man turned â—way the eyes of his flesh from his â—od saw vpon him selfe that he was not the hyest Godhed it selfe but that he was also man â–ª then was he vndersought or tempted to the knowledge of good and euill to be therethrough as God. Then came a blindnes ouer man and estranged him or seperated him from his God wherethrough he could not beare the word or voice of his god nor shine before him with his naked manhoode Man did acknowledge none other God saluation nor kingdome of heauen but through the knowledge that the man had takeÌ„ on to him self which was nothing els but the deuill hell and condemnation Through this knowledge of AdaÌ„ the generations of men haue inherited a consumeable inheritaunce wherethrough men that were made or shaped to be one with God and ought to be one with another are fallen into many contrarieties and hinderlike knowledges Thus man being fallen away altogether destroyed in his vnderstanding and from the liuing Godhed and from the kingdome of heauen straunged might be brought agayne to his vpright estate in his God through his loue according as he had promysed to the saluation of the manly generation he made one new man after the same likenes or similitude of his Godhead and named him Iesus Christus which doeth signifie vnto vs the safemaking oyle of God sauing being the same is gone out from God and hath shewed himselfe vpon earth He is gone into the knowledge of men and found all their man knowledges and their scripture learnednes in all in all that they wist false and lying This false knowledge siting she vnderstandeth not Gods truth aright through her wisdome and Scripture learnednes hath Christ rebuked and taken captiue the knowledge of men and made it through Christ foolishnes to make them frée and deliuer them in this to coÌ„ming day of his Lordlines from all their foolish knowledge Euen so hath Christ done by y sin and the righteousnes of men He is also gone into the death of men and hath borne therby one death namely his death of the crosse and so through his death hath taken captiue the death of men because that he in y last day in his comming againe may set vp the man from death through the death of the cros and make him aliue that he may bring him in his vpright estate to his God. But now hath Iesus Christ the might and Lordship ouer all destroyed things which burthened the men and the destructions which were takeÌ„ captiue and through the death of the cros had brought all vnder him Euen so is he with his might and Lordship risâ—n agayne from death ouer the destruction and through the declaration of his resurrection hath he shewed to his frends and disciples which belâ—eued in him and hath made it knowen vnto them the might home to get y ouer winning against al y destroyed things wherewith the maÌ„ was incaptiued God hath ordayned a day which is the day of loue in which he will iudge the earth with righteousnes through one man he hath concluded it which holdeth beliefe before euery man seing that God hath awaked him againe from the death Hetherto the doctrine of HN. taken out of a booke called Mans falling away his Lordlines and comming agayne THe heauenly being of God and God his vpright righteousnes is become mortall in vs but yet not for euer but for a certaine season till the man shew forth vpright fruites of repentaunce The man in his youngnes is subiect to sinne vntill he haue attayned the manly oldnes in the Loue and the vpright fréedome then is the new couenaunt of perfection ereâ—â—ed and all is fulfilled which is written by Moyses or that God requireth through his Prophets or what is euangelised of Christ. And if there chaunce any temptations by our Paramours which we in tymes past haue loued to come and assault vs c. but if they lay hould on vs with force and violence and that then although we cry there commeth not any power or helpe vnto vs for to withstand them in their force and violence and that they euen so rauish vs agaynst our will so are we guiltles of the transgressinges for wee haue cryed for to be released from the tyranny of the euill and there is no helpe come vnto vs of which guiltles transgressinges the law witnesseth where it sayth a woman that is violently taken in the field c. The regenerat man from his new byrth is exercised in all well doing and for that cause also he cannot bring fourth any thing els but all good and Loue. The true or vpright fredome is this that the man through the ministration of the gracious word c. his hart spirite and minde is wholy released purged and purified from all wicked nature which hath raigned ouer him that there dwell liue nor rule any other thing in him namely in all his spirite thoughtes minde soule but alone the true Godhed with his louely being of the vpright Loue and so to be wholy replenished with all y vertues of God that there flowe nothing els in him namely in all his spirite and minde but the spirituall heauenly â–ª and liuing waters Man regenerat doth veare costly treasure in earthen veâ—sels is of one minde with the thrée godly witnesses that heare witnes in heauen Of which thâ—ee godly witnesses the onâ— is the Loue which is God the Father himselfe The second witnes is the trueth which is the word of God the Father Iesus Christ himselfe And the third witâ—es is the holy spirite of Loue or of God of the truâ—th of Iesus Christ which is the euerlasting lyfe and the inheritaunce of all spirituall and heauenly goodes Consider where God with his Christ and spirite hath his dwelling iâ— any one and bringeth forth 〈◊〉 secret treasures of the heauenly goodes thereout euen there is then truely his wisedome to be found and also the couÌ„cell of God according to the trueth